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ThePointblank
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:54 am

seb146 wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
seb146 wrote:
He did exactly what we all did when we were young: something stupid. And, like many of us, he grew out of it. That is one difference between "liberals" and "righties". We acknowledge other people exist, that other people have feelings and that other people are valid human beings. By owning up to our past mistakes and showing that we have grown and changed.

If this is all that righteis have on him while they still praise sexual predators, maybe it is not "liberals" who need to change.

He was 29 at the time of the yearbook photo, and it happened 18 years ago. Blackface wasn't acceptable then, and it isn't acceptable now.

The problem isn't that this apparently isn't an isolated incident, which probably can be written off, but part of a series of incidents all stemming from his adulthood when he clearly should have known better. And scuttlebutt is saying that the Liberals are fearing that there may be even more incidents as well. When you add up the disastrous India trip, to me sounds like a pattern of poor judgment on his part, and that will make many voters concerned.


And how has he treated the native peoples of Canada since his time in office? Indians? Blacks? Any disrespectful language or treatment?

Except for the Grassy Narrows protester...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder- ... -1.5073665
 
WIederling
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:17 am

Isn't "Black Facing Scandal" mostly a thing weaponized in the US?
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland ... oeder.html
No uproar in Bavaria :-)
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:24 am

WIederling wrote:
Isn't "Black Facing Scandal" mostly a thing weaponized in the US?
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland ... oeder.html
No uproar in Bavaria :-)

Partially because Germany doesn't have the same issues and history with systemic racism against those of colour like the US (and to a much more limited extent, Canada) has experienced, and continue to see.

In North America, wearing black face was a means of denigrate, dehumanizing and mocking black people, often coupled with exaggerations, malapropisms, awkward movements and garish attire to further ridicule black people since the mid 1800's. This was popular right up to the 1950's, where it started to fall out of fashion, and by the 1980's, it wasn't seen as being socially acceptable.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:48 am

ThePointblank wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Isn't "Black Facing Scandal" mostly a thing weaponized in the US?
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland ... oeder.html
No uproar in Bavaria :-)

Partially because Germany doesn't have the same issues and history with systemic racism against those of colour like the US (and to a much more limited extent, Canada) has experienced, and continue to see.

In North America, wearing black face was a means of denigrate, dehumanizing and mocking black people, often coupled with exaggerations, malapropisms, awkward movements and garish attire to further ridicule black people since the mid 1800's. This was popular right up to the 1950's, where it started to fall out of fashion, and by the 1980's, it wasn't seen as being socially acceptable.


I would note that in Europe as well as certain parts of Asia, there is still cultural figures and marketing that uses 'blackface' and other depictions of Black/African persons that are becoming less acceptable, in part due to the rise of the Internet and social media along with pressure from Black persons around the world to end it. That is part of why such acts, even in the past by Mr. Trudeau, get so much attention, as show a underlying racism that is disturbing and unacceptable in today's society.
 
WIederling
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:18 pm

ltbewr wrote:
That is part of why such acts, even in the past by Mr. Trudeau, get so much attention, as show a underlying racism that is disturbing and unacceptable in today's society.


Back in late feudal times a "Mohr" was a must have servant at the various courts in Europe. ( not as slaves
additionally very popular with the ladies ... and with appropriate results. )

Seeing racism in every conjured up act is kind of hysterical.
( and agitating against things like people dressing up as different nationals and/or ethnicity
won't fix the inherent racism in the US. It will just change how it coming to the surface. )

Should the Scots get up in arms when commercials reference a Scot in a Kilt
when the topic is "keeping your money together" ?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:18 pm

I don't know how it is in Québec, or more importantly how it was at the time, but here in France, there is no stigma associated with "blackface". Well, it's starting just now, but the people who are offended concentrate on things that happen now, not in the past.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:44 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:

seb146 wrote:
And how conservatives are now shaming him for being responsible.

I think it's conservatives (and folks like myself) that are tired of stuff being dug up from the past and make bigger deals than they are. I don't think any suggest that blackface is wrong, but context also has to be looked at.


Bingo! It's the digging up of trivial stuff that keeps good people out of politics.

I could care less that Trudeau dressed up in a costume. It appears to be completely innocent, in context and character. What's probably not so innocent about it is that he darkened his face too much. But again, trivial. Us conservatives don't care. The left set a standard and must live to their standard if they're going to hold everyone else to it.

Trudeau will survive because nobody, ultimately, cares. Just look at Northam. His picture was far, far worse. Nothing happened to him.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:30 pm

OA412 wrote:
Because even though it happened a long time ago, it still speaks to his character. The majority of us were able to get through life without dressing up in blackface. In the US (and I assume in Canada), blackface was a product of the vile racism that served to caricature racist stereotypes of Black people. It was and is dehumanizing.
You are applying US norms and traditions to Canada. I can't speak for Canada, but just because it is deeply offensive in the USA does not necessarily mean it is offensive in Canada.

Again, I can't speak for Canada, but speaking for the Netherlands, there is a long and proud tradition of people dressing up as "Black Pete" (Zwarte Piet) during the Sinterklaas festivities. Black faces, red lips, gold yewelry, moorish clothing, the full works.

I won't deny there are complaints about Black Pete. But the vast majority of the country consider it a part of Dutch culture that should not be messed with.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:56 pm

WIederling wrote:
Seeing racism in every conjured up act is kind of hysterical.

Except people are hysterical nowadays.

Tugg
 
WIederling
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:53 pm

Tugger wrote:
WIederling wrote:
Seeing racism in every conjured up act is kind of hysterical.

Except people are hysterical nowadays.

Tugg

QED :-)
 
cpd
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:29 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
Isn't Trudeau something akin to a demigod for leftists the world over? Is that the reason there is no outrage over here although Time magazine uncovered this yesterday?
BTW those are the "scandalous" photos.


Nope, just another politician like all the others. No special status. Left, right, they are usually all the same.
 
meecrob
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:17 pm

Quick question: Are any black people offended? Or is it all White people trying to look "woke"? I'm a Canadian in Toronto, and a quick sample of my facebook feed shows roughly 40% conservative White people saying "Trudeau is done, look how racist", 40% Liberal White people saying "Well, he did wrong, but he apologized, so lets keep the Conservatives out of power" and 20% White people asking "Whats the big deal? They can put out a movie like "White Chicks" (2 African-American cops go undercover as White women) which shows someone impersonating another race, why is this any different?" to which they are bombarded with even more White people posting the entire Wiki of Blackface and told that they are just as racist as someone who dresses in Blackface for not knowing the difference. All my contacts who are not white are going about their usual food/meme posting as if nothing happened.
 
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Vio
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:11 pm

meecrob wrote:
Quick question: Are any black people offended? Or is it all White people trying to look "woke"? I'm a Canadian in Toronto, and a quick sample of my facebook feed shows roughly 40% conservative White people saying "Trudeau is done, look how racist", 40% Liberal White people saying "Well, he did wrong, but he apologized, so lets keep the Conservatives out of power" and 20% White people asking "Whats the big deal? They can put out a movie like "White Chicks" (2 African-American cops go undercover as White women) which shows someone impersonating another race, why is this any different?" to which they are bombarded with even more White people posting the entire Wiki of Blackface and told that they are just as racist as someone who dresses in Blackface for not knowing the difference. All my contacts who are not white are going about their usual food/meme posting as if nothing happened.



Good point! The "White Chicks" movie is indeed an interesting example, but I never once thought it was racist toward whites. I never even gave it a thought in that sense.

The people that are most critical and shocked by this are the ones that had to put up with his "ULTRA POLITICALLY CORRECT" persona. This is the same man that said "PEOPLE-KIND" instead of "MANKIND", because he doesn't want to offend certain groups. He decided to appoint himself "Canada's moral compass", meanwhile he did stuff like this, not when he was 16, but when he was 29 years old and the son of a (former) PM of Canada.

Justin Trudeau should not only loose his job as PM, but should be kicked out of the Liberal Party. If they practice what they preach, this man should be dismissed from their organization.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:01 pm

Vio wrote:

Justin Trudeau should not only loose his job as PM, but should be kicked out of the Liberal Party. If they practice what they preach, this man should be dismissed from their organization.


Well, you know what you have to do if you want to help with Justin Trudeau losing his job as prime minister. I'll do my part a month from tomorrow. It is up to you to do yours.
 
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DL717
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:03 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
seb146 wrote:
He did exactly what we all did when we were young: something stupid. And, like many of us, he grew out of it. That is one difference between "liberals" and "righties". We acknowledge other people exist, that other people have feelings and that other people are valid human beings. By owning up to our past mistakes and showing that we have grown and changed.

If this is all that righteis have on him while they still praise sexual predators, maybe it is not "liberals" who need to change.


Funny how an apology from a republican is never good enough for the left....

When was the last time a republican apologized for their actions?


Ahem...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/me ... index.html
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:35 pm

DL717 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Funny how an apology from a republican is never good enough for the left....

When was the last time a republican apologized for their actions?


Ahem...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/me ... index.html

Lol who cares about Megyn Kelly? The right still hates her guts for challenging Dear Leader on his transparent long history of misogyny.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:41 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
When was the last time a republican apologized for their actions?


Ahem...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/me ... index.html

Lol who cares about Megyn Kelly? The right still hates her guts for challenging Dear Leader on his transparent long history of misogyny.


Asks for an example. Given almost an identical example to the controversy at hand and how the reactions were different. Quickly dismisses example.

Check and mate.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:17 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
I could care less that Trudeau dressed up in a costume. It appears to be completely innocent, in context and character. What's probably not so innocent about it is that he darkened his face too much. But again, trivial. Us conservatives don't care. The left set a standard and must live to their standard if they're going to hold everyone else to it.

Trudeau will survive because nobody, ultimately, cares. Just look at Northam. His picture was far, far worse. Nothing happened to him.


Perhaps you don't but the loudest 'conservatives' with media mouthpieces do. Just last week Rush Limbaugh went back out into character assassination-land trying to slut-shame Krystal Ball with reference to obscure party photos that were news only in VA ten years ago. As a culture we need to unite around an effort to shame doxxing and livelihood destruction of any kind as reprisal for disagreement / offense.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:38 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Lol who cares about Megyn Kelly? The right still hates her guts for challenging Dear Leader on his transparent long history of misogyny.


Asks for an example. Given almost an identical example to the controversy at hand and how the reactions were different. Quickly dismisses example.

Check and mate.

Where was the example of a republican politician apologizing? Megyn is not an elected politician; her show was a ratings disaster before she was dropped for (in my opinion) a dumb reason, and no one on the left--and I mean NO ONE--cares about her enough to give a toss about her 'black face' incident. She's certainly welcome to return to TV; why hasn't Faux snagged her? Hrmmm? If y'all love her so much put her back on the air.

The try hard is strong with you. I'm beginning to think you guys can't come up with a legitimate example, and this is just another instance of conservatives imagining persecution that doesn't exist.
 
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jdstJD
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:15 pm

meecrob wrote:
Quick question: Are any black people offended? Or is it all White people trying to look "woke"? I'm a Canadian in Toronto, and a quick sample of my facebook feed shows roughly 40% conservative White people saying "Trudeau is done, look how racist", 40% Liberal White people saying "Well, he did wrong, but he apologized, so lets keep the Conservatives out of power" and 20% White people asking "Whats the big deal? They can put out a movie like "White Chicks" (2 African-American cops go undercover as White women) which shows someone impersonating another race, why is this any different?" to which they are bombarded with even more White people posting the entire Wiki of Blackface and told that they are just as racist as someone who dresses in Blackface for not knowing the difference. All my contacts who are not white are going about their usual food/meme posting as if nothing happened.


I’m offended. I just don’t have the type of personality to make a spectacle out of my being offended. When I see things like this on the news I get upset and frustrated but that’s because I know our history from a general standpoint and also because my family, from my parents on up the tree, lived through those times of humiliation, ridicule, overt racism etc. So yeah when this stuff comes up a lot of us are like “what else is new?”. Even though it’s a great feeling when so many “non-black” people are outraged at things like that because we don’t feel so ostracized and alienated like “we” (collectively speaking, not personally because I’m too young to have had any real exposure to those experiences) used to when it was the norm for most people to be cool with it. Oh and yeah, I was always and remain really offended and disgusted with the movie “White Chicks”.
 
mham001
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:58 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Lol who cares about Megyn Kelly? The right still hates her guts for challenging Dear Leader on his transparent long history of misogyny.


Asks for an example. Given almost an identical example to the controversy at hand and how the reactions were different. Quickly dismisses example.

Check and mate.

Where was the example of a republican politician apologizing? Megyn is not an elected politician; BLAH BLAH BLAH.


Too many people have you on their Ignore list apparently, allowing you to get away with this foolery.

Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey apologizes for wearing blackface in a ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2019/08/30 › alabamas-republi...
Aug 30, 2019 - Alabama's Republican governor apologizes for wearing blackface in (1967)... Kay Ivey (R) apologized for a blackface skit she participated in that was ...


There is more but you aren't worth the time.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:19 pm

mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Asks for an example. Given almost an identical example to the controversy at hand and how the reactions were different. Quickly dismisses example.

Check and mate.

Where was the example of a republican politician apologizing? Megyn is not an elected politician; BLAH BLAH BLAH.


Too many people have you on their Ignore list apparently, allowing you to get away with this foolery.

Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey apologizes for wearing blackface in a ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com › politics › 2019/08/30 › alabamas-republi...
Aug 30, 2019 - Alabama's Republican governor apologizes for wearing blackface in (1967)... Kay Ivey (R) apologized for a blackface skit she participated in that was ...


There is more but you aren't worth the time.

Yes much easier to ignore reality and stew in your triggered imaginary persecution complex bubble--that's the republican way. So you want Trudeau to follow Kay Ivey's example, ie apologize and stay in power--do I have that right?

Swing and a miss.
 
mham001
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:28 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Yes much easier to ignore reality and stew in your triggered imaginary persecution complex bubble--that's the republican way. So you want Trudeau to follow Kay Ivey's example, ie apologize and stay in power--do I have that right?

Swing and a miss.


You asked, I gave. That you don't like is your problem. And don't put words in my mouth.
 
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seb146
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:39 pm

DL717 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Funny how an apology from a republican is never good enough for the left....

When was the last time a republican apologized for their actions?


Ahem...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/24/media/me ... index.html


What office did Megyn Kelly hold? HUGE difference.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:45 pm

mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Yes much easier to ignore reality and stew in your triggered imaginary persecution complex bubble--that's the republican way. So you want Trudeau to follow Kay Ivey's example, ie apologize and stay in power--do I have that right?

Swing and a miss.


You asked, I gave. That you don't like is your problem. And don't put words in my mouth.

The context was conservatives whining that apologizing is never enoooooooooough for meanie liberalz :hissyfit: She apologized, and stayed in office, so where's the bellyaching coming from?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:49 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Yes much easier to ignore reality and stew in your triggered imaginary persecution complex bubble--that's the republican way. So you want Trudeau to follow Kay Ivey's example, ie apologize and stay in power--do I have that right?

Swing and a miss.


You asked, I gave. That you don't like is your problem. And don't put words in my mouth.

The context was conservatives whining that apologizing is never enoooooooooough for meanie liberalz :hissyfit: She apologized, and stayed in office, so where's the bellyaching coming from?


It’s coming from a 30-plus year dose of Pepto Blame-o!
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:40 pm

This is all so comical. I doubt Hollywood writers could come up with such a thing.
 
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DL717
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:11 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Lol who cares about Megyn Kelly? The right still hates her guts for challenging Dear Leader on his transparent long history of misogyny.


Asks for an example. Given almost an identical example to the controversy at hand and how the reactions were different. Quickly dismisses example.

Check and mate.

Where was the example of a republican politician apologizing? Megyn is not an elected politician; her show was a ratings disaster before she was dropped for (in my opinion) a dumb reason, and no one on the left--and I mean NO ONE--cares about her enough to give a toss about her 'black face' incident. She's certainly welcome to return to TV; why hasn't Faux snagged her? Hrmmm? If y'all love her so much put her back on the air.

The try hard is strong with you. I'm beginning to think you guys can't come up with a legitimate example, and this is just another instance of conservatives imagining persecution that doesn't exist.


You didn’t say Republican politician. You said Republican. So now you have two examples compliments of myself and trpbm66.

MaverickM11 wrote:
When was the last time a republican apologized for their actions?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:01 pm

DL717 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Asks for an example. Given almost an identical example to the controversy at hand and how the reactions were different. Quickly dismisses example.

Check and mate.

Where was the example of a republican politician apologizing? Megyn is not an elected politician; her show was a ratings disaster before she was dropped for (in my opinion) a dumb reason, and no one on the left--and I mean NO ONE--cares about her enough to give a toss about her 'black face' incident. She's certainly welcome to return to TV; why hasn't Faux snagged her? Hrmmm? If y'all love her so much put her back on the air.

The try hard is strong with you. I'm beginning to think you guys can't come up with a legitimate example, and this is just another instance of conservatives imagining persecution that doesn't exist.


You didn’t say Republican politician. You said Republican. So now you have two examples compliments of myself and trpbm66.

MaverickM11 wrote:
When was the last time a republican apologized for their actions?

Context, kids. But it's adorable you both think you have some sort of high ground with Megyn Kelly with 'blood coming out of her wherever' and the ensuing tidal wave of misogyny from the president and republicans. Did she ever get an apology for that? Nah? Just par for the course for the right now.

mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Yes much easier to ignore reality and stew in your triggered imaginary persecution complex bubble--that's the republican way. So you want Trudeau to follow Kay Ivey's example, ie apologize and stay in power--do I have that right?

Swing and a miss.


You asked, I gave. That you don't like is your problem. And don't put words in my mouth.

*shrug* you guys are the ones whining an apology is never enough, so where is this all-too-common example?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:48 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Where was the example of a republican politician apologizing? Megyn is not an elected politician; her show was a ratings disaster before she was dropped for (in my opinion) a dumb reason, and no one on the left--and I mean NO ONE--cares about her enough to give a toss about her 'black face' incident. She's certainly welcome to return to TV; why hasn't Faux snagged her? Hrmmm? If y'all love her so much put her back on the air.

The try hard is strong with you. I'm beginning to think you guys can't come up with a legitimate example, and this is just another instance of conservatives imagining persecution that doesn't exist.


You didn’t say Republican politician. You said Republican. So now you have two examples compliments of myself and trpbm66.

MaverickM11 wrote:
When was the last time a republican apologized for their actions?

Context, kids. But it's adorable you both think you have some sort of high ground with Megyn Kelly with 'blood coming out of her wherever' and the ensuing tidal wave of misogyny from the president and republicans. Did she ever get an apology for that? Nah? Just par for the course for the right now.

mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Yes much easier to ignore reality and stew in your triggered imaginary persecution complex bubble--that's the republican way. So you want Trudeau to follow Kay Ivey's example, ie apologize and stay in power--do I have that right?

Swing and a miss.


You asked, I gave. That you don't like is your problem. And don't put words in my mouth.

*shrug* you guys are the ones whining an apology is never enough, so where is this all-too-common example?


Come on now, Steve King made lots of apologies to his colleagues behind closed doors!
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:51 pm

For the record Megyn Kelly is a horrible news personality. Her mannerisms made it impossible to watch her. Not that I watch much opinion "news" anyways. (As has been documented in this site in the past the only fox news I watch/listen to is Neil cavuto, the five and outnumbered during lunch - each I feel is pretty balanced.)
 
YVRLTN
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:35 am

Its the oppositions job to point out any failures and there have been two big clangers in recent months which may suggest his all inclusive caring public persona is just a smokescreen. Shock horror! Theres this and the SNC Lavalin / Jody Wilson Raybould / Jane Philpot affair where the opposition claims he his against women and indigenous people. We don't know Trudeau personally, no one can really comment one way or the other what he really thinks. If he is all false pretenses, then it will get exposed in time. Maybe that is what is happening, but his current job is to run the country.

Ultimately people will look at his election promises 4 years ago and the state of the economy compared to then and now and decide in the polls.

Or not, the choices seem to many unappealing, there will probably be a record low voter turn out and the election will be decided by who didn't vote rather than who did.

Andrew Scheer is unattractive outside of his core conservative base and his stand - or silence - on same sex marriage and abortion for example, not to mention green policies or lack of them probably means Trudeau will retain his job regardless of the scandals. AB and maybe SK might have got burned with recent changes and with the poor economy are probably fairly safe bets for Scheer. Maritimes and BC really could go either way, Vancouver is pretty liberal or green, but rural BC is not. It will come down to getting people on board on ON & QC.

Mr Singh is no Jack Leighton and looks like a non option and while Mr Bernier came out of no where and is gaining traction, ultimately he is just another Farage. The greens have a lot of sympathy as climate change is forefront of mind at the moment, but ultimately they do not have the resources and infrastructure to form government. The Bloc may determine who gets the seats in QC, but like the other 3 mentioned in this paragraph will merely serve to take away crucial seats from Trudeau or Scheer.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:42 am

It's interesting. The same argument I used here I posted on my IG and got two folks bringing up the fact that reverse racism.

I fail to see how holding all races to equal standards is "reverse racism". In today's era, context only applies to one side but is thrown out the window for another. I used the example brought here (White Chicks). But if white brothers (say the Baldwin brothers) had done a movie called Black Chicks with the same plot, why is it that the former can be considered comedy but the latter is flat out racist?

I had to make the point that yes, there is no reverse racism, but the term "racism" has evolved to more than just systematic discrimination. Discrimination on basis of sex is sexism; on basis of age is ageism; on basis of race is racism. An affected party must have been denied something that another person enjoys. And today, even disagreeing with someone of different race could be considered racism, so having conversations is nearly impossible.

How is Trudeau in blackface for An Arabian Night-themed party racist? How has a dark skinned person been denied something when he showed up to the party in that attire? And what was Trudeau's intent behind said costume?
 
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stl07
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:14 am

trpmb6 wrote:
For the record Megyn Kelly is a horrible news personality. Her mannerisms made it impossible to watch her. Not that I watch much opinion "news" anyways. (As has been documented in this site in the past the only fox news I watch/listen to is Neil cavuto, the five and outnumbered during lunch - each I feel is pretty balanced.)

She was cut because of her show, the blackface was a convenient excuse
 
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stl07
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:20 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
It's interesting. The same argument I used here I posted on my IG and got two folks bringing up the fact that reverse racism.

I fail to see how holding all races to equal standards is "reverse racism". In today's era, context only applies to one side but is thrown out the window for another. I used the example brought here (White Chicks). But if white brothers (say the Baldwin brothers) had done a movie called Black Chicks with the same plot, why is it that the former can be considered comedy but the latter is flat out racist?

I had to make the point that yes, there is no reverse racism, but the term "racism" has evolved to more than just systematic discrimination. Discrimination on basis of sex is sexism; on basis of age is ageism; on basis of race is racism. An affected party must have been denied something that another person enjoys. And today, even disagreeing with someone of different race could be considered racism, so having conversations is nearly impossible.

How is Trudeau in blackface for An Arabian Night-themed party racist? How has a dark skinned person been denied something when he showed up to the party in that attire? And what was Trudeau's intent behind said costume?

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
If his intent was to mock an Arab guy, then it was wrong. If not, then an apology should suffice. Times change. What was acceptable then isn't now and what is now maybe wasn't back then. I'm sure a lot of fashion choices today would be very offensive some time ago.
 
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stl07
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:25 am

jdstJD wrote:
meecrob wrote:
Quick question: Are any black people offended? Or is it all White people trying to look "woke"? I'm a Canadian in Toronto, and a quick sample of my facebook feed shows roughly 40% conservative White people saying "Trudeau is done, look how racist", 40% Liberal White people saying "Well, he did wrong, but he apologized, so lets keep the Conservatives out of power" and 20% White people asking "Whats the big deal? They can put out a movie like "White Chicks" (2 African-American cops go undercover as White women) which shows someone impersonating another race, why is this any different?" to which they are bombarded with even more White people posting the entire Wiki of Blackface and told that they are just as racist as someone who dresses in Blackface for not knowing the difference. All my contacts who are not white are going about their usual food/meme posting as if nothing happened.


I’m offended. I just don’t have the type of personality to make a spectacle out of my being offended. When I see things like this on the news I get upset and frustrated but that’s because I know our history from a general standpoint and also because my family, from my parents on up the tree, lived through those times of humiliation, ridicule, overt racism etc. So yeah when this stuff comes up a lot of us are like “what else is new?”. Even though it’s a great feeling when so many “non-black” people are outraged at things like that because we don’t feel so ostracized and alienated like “we” (collectively speaking, not personally because I’m too young to have had any real exposure to those experiences) used to when it was the norm for most people to be cool with it. Oh and yeah, I was always and remain really offended and disgusted with the movie “White Chicks”.

See but you are in the minority. You don't have a double standard, unlike many others who are offended by blackface but not by white chicks.

Also, why is "brownface" offensive to you when you said you were African American?
 
P1aneMad
Posts: 467
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:19 am

cpd wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
Isn't Trudeau something akin to a demigod for leftists the world over? Is that the reason there is no outrage over here although Time magazine uncovered this yesterday?
BTW those are the "scandalous" photos.


Nope, just another politician like all the others. No special status. Left, right, they are usually all the same.

The evangelist of political correctness is now just another politician??? LOL dudes!

Image
 
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jdstJD
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:55 pm

stl07 wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
meecrob wrote:
Quick question: Are any black people offended? Or is it all White people trying to look "woke"? I'm a Canadian in Toronto, and a quick sample of my facebook feed shows roughly 40% conservative White people saying "Trudeau is done, look how racist", 40% Liberal White people saying "Well, he did wrong, but he apologized, so lets keep the Conservatives out of power" and 20% White people asking "Whats the big deal? They can put out a movie like "White Chicks" (2 African-American cops go undercover as White women) which shows someone impersonating another race, why is this any different?" to which they are bombarded with even more White people posting the entire Wiki of Blackface and told that they are just as racist as someone who dresses in Blackface for not knowing the difference. All my contacts who are not white are going about their usual food/meme posting as if nothing happened.


I’m offended. I just don’t have the type of personality to make a spectacle out of my being offended. When I see things like this on the news I get upset and frustrated but that’s because I know our history from a general standpoint and also because my family, from my parents on up the tree, lived through those times of humiliation, ridicule, overt racism etc. So yeah when this stuff comes up a lot of us are like “what else is new?”. Even though it’s a great feeling when so many “non-black” people are outraged at things like that because we don’t feel so ostracized and alienated like “we” (collectively speaking, not personally because I’m too young to have had any real exposure to those experiences) used to when it was the norm for most people to be cool with it. Oh and yeah, I was always and remain really offended and disgusted with the movie “White Chicks”.


See but you are in the minority. You don't have a double standard, unlike many others who are offended by blackface but not by white chicks.

Also, why is "brownface" offensive to you when you said you were African American?


For the same reason the movie “White Chicks” is offensive to me and as you pointed out it’s a double standard for blackface to be offensive but not “White Chicks”. They both are a direct effort to create caricatures out of the people they are emulating. You don’t have to be a member of the group that’s the subject of the emulation to feel offended by it.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:10 pm

Why not just come out and say humor is dead. I was not offended by White Chicks, although I'm not female but the double standard it exposes does offend me because that is in-your-face everyday. I was never offended by the portrayal of stupid straight white men either until lately as they are the only subset people are allowed to mock and so it is excessive and cliched. It's everywhere, commercials, sitcoms, my kid's shows, typically there is one dumbass straight white guy and everybody else not straight white guy is smart, witty, heroic and making him the butt. This would be fine with me if it weren't so bloody "incorrect" to do likewise to any other subset. It's not though, people are unable to laugh about themselves and have even trained themselves to be "offended" for others. Humor is dead.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:22 pm

stl07 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
It's interesting. The same argument I used here I posted on my IG and got two folks bringing up the fact that reverse racism.

I fail to see how holding all races to equal standards is "reverse racism". In today's era, context only applies to one side but is thrown out the window for another. I used the example brought here (White Chicks). But if white brothers (say the Baldwin brothers) had done a movie called Black Chicks with the same plot, why is it that the former can be considered comedy but the latter is flat out racist?

I had to make the point that yes, there is no reverse racism, but the term "racism" has evolved to more than just systematic discrimination. Discrimination on basis of sex is sexism; on basis of age is ageism; on basis of race is racism. An affected party must have been denied something that another person enjoys. And today, even disagreeing with someone of different race could be considered racism, so having conversations is nearly impossible.

How is Trudeau in blackface for An Arabian Night-themed party racist? How has a dark skinned person been denied something when he showed up to the party in that attire? And what was Trudeau's intent behind said costume?

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
If his intent was to mock an Arab guy, then it was wrong. If not, then an apology should suffice. Times change. What was acceptable then isn't now and what is now maybe wasn't back then. I'm sure a lot of fashion choices today would be very offensive some time ago.


It's about context. Seems pretty clear he wasn't mocking arabs. Likely celebrating. The theme of the party was Arabian nights. Great stories we should all read. Lots of morals taught in it. And again it was Canada, where blackface didn't have the stigma it does here in the states. Still, it looks a bit tasteless. No need to paint your face in order to mimic Aladdin.

I think the whole thing is overblown, but Trudeau put himself in this position by running his campaign on a platform of political correctness. Remember when he interrupted a woman who said "mankind" and he said "excuse me, we prefer the term peoplekind."
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:49 pm

mham001 wrote:
Why not just come out and say humor is dead. I was not offended by White Chicks, although I'm not female but the double standard it exposes does offend me because that is in-your-face everyday. I was never offended by the portrayal of stupid straight white men either until lately as they are the only subset people are allowed to mock and so it is excessive and cliched. It's everywhere, commercials, sitcoms, my kid's shows, typically there is one dumbass straight white guy and everybody else not straight white guy is smart, witty, heroic and making him the butt. This would be fine with me if it weren't so bloody "incorrect" to do likewise to any other subset. It's not though, people are unable to laugh about themselves and have even trained themselves to be "offended" for others. Humor is dead.


Uhm what? Bloodline, Big Bang Theory, Stranger Things, Black Mirror, Fargo....you name it, what you describe is just simply not the case. Branching out from commercials and kids’ TV would probably do wonders for your perception of what popular culture is actually producing.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:56 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
but Trudeau put himself in this position by running his campaign on a platform of political correctness. Remember when he interrupted a woman who said "mankind" and he said "excuse me, we prefer the term peoplekind."

Ah...I did not know that. I guess this is a case of live by the sword, die by the sword.

I will give him credit for not deflecting or avoiding any accountability, but he set high standards so it's natural to expect him to live up to them as well.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:06 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
but Trudeau put himself in this position by running his campaign on a platform of political correctness. Remember when he interrupted a woman who said "mankind" and he said "excuse me, we prefer the term peoplekind."

Ah...I did not know that. I guess this is a case of live by the sword, die by the sword.

I will give him credit for not deflecting or avoiding any accountability, but he set high standards so it's natural to expect him to live up to them as well.


Agreed. And again, the stigma of blackface is really more of a USA thing.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:14 pm

Innocent question here. What's the difference between a drag queen and someone doing blackface?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:56 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
And again, the stigma of blackface is really more of a USA thing.


I wouldn't say that. In this day and age, no reasonable person in western Europe would consider doing blackface. If I did it, my daughters would be horrified and probably disown me.

However, when I was a young kid, Sunday evening TV entertainment consisted of "The Black & White Minstrel Show." I'm now shocked to see on Wiki that it ran in the UK until 1978. Nobody would even consider putting it on TV today. It was "acceptable" back then, but certainly not today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black ... strel_Show
Image
 
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seb146
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:15 am

The opposition parties can't debate the leadership and what the Liberal Party has done under Trudeau. They have to dig up old pictures and distract voters. He has apologized and his actions toward minorities since taking office speaks volumes. Can Canadians please debate what the Liberal Party has done and what the opposition parties have to offer?
 
cpd
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:09 am

P1aneMad wrote:
cpd wrote:
P1aneMad wrote:
Isn't Trudeau something akin to a demigod for leftists the world over? Is that the reason there is no outrage over here although Time magazine uncovered this yesterday?
BTW those are the "scandalous" photos.


Nope, just another politician like all the others. No special status. Left, right, they are usually all the same.

The evangelist of political correctness is now just another politician??? LOL dudes!


They all manage to get themselves caught out somehow. Seems to be the way with modern politicians.
 
ThePointblank
Posts: 3854
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:21 am

trpmb6 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
It's interesting. The same argument I used here I posted on my IG and got two folks bringing up the fact that reverse racism.

I fail to see how holding all races to equal standards is "reverse racism". In today's era, context only applies to one side but is thrown out the window for another. I used the example brought here (White Chicks). But if white brothers (say the Baldwin brothers) had done a movie called Black Chicks with the same plot, why is it that the former can be considered comedy but the latter is flat out racist?

I had to make the point that yes, there is no reverse racism, but the term "racism" has evolved to more than just systematic discrimination. Discrimination on basis of sex is sexism; on basis of age is ageism; on basis of race is racism. An affected party must have been denied something that another person enjoys. And today, even disagreeing with someone of different race could be considered racism, so having conversations is nearly impossible.

How is Trudeau in blackface for An Arabian Night-themed party racist? How has a dark skinned person been denied something when he showed up to the party in that attire? And what was Trudeau's intent behind said costume?

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:
If his intent was to mock an Arab guy, then it was wrong. If not, then an apology should suffice. Times change. What was acceptable then isn't now and what is now maybe wasn't back then. I'm sure a lot of fashion choices today would be very offensive some time ago.


It's about context. Seems pretty clear he wasn't mocking arabs. Likely celebrating. The theme of the party was Arabian nights. Great stories we should all read. Lots of morals taught in it. And again it was Canada, where blackface didn't have the stigma it does here in the states. Still, it looks a bit tasteless. No need to paint your face in order to mimic Aladdin.

I think the whole thing is overblown, but Trudeau put himself in this position by running his campaign on a platform of political correctness. Remember when he interrupted a woman who said "mankind" and he said "excuse me, we prefer the term peoplekind."

Well, the British Telegraph newspaper has this article on the gala where the original blackface photo surfaced:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... blackface/

The TD;DR of the article was that the gala was supposed to be a black tie event, with tuxedos and fancy dresses at a fancy hotel. And yes, Justin Trudeau apparently did stick out at the event, and a number of guests at the event did take offence, but since everyone knew who he was, they put it down to him being "larger than life" and a known "character".

And the woman that was in the photo with Justin's Trudeau's hands all over was a fellow teacher...

Also noted by the Telegraph was that a few months after the gala, he left the private school to teach at a local public school; it is unclear if Justin Trudeau was forced out, or left voluntarily. But my rumour grapevine as I do live close to the private school in question was that Justin Trudeau was fired/let go.
 
Redd
Posts: 1397
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:23 am

WIederling wrote:
Isn't "Black Facing Scandal" mostly a thing weaponized in the US?
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland ... oeder.html
No uproar in Bavaria :-)


A reason for fake outrage, me thinks.
 
LittleSprocket
Posts: 286
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Re: Justin Trudeau Blackface Scandal

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:38 am

When did blackface become such an issue? The problem with this is that we are judging people’s actions 30 years ago based off of societies standards today. You can’t do that, left or right. The problem with certain members on this board however is that they will make excuses for the condemned because he aligns with them politically but they will bring fire and brimstone down on someone of the opposite party.

My question for y’all, left or right...who the heck cares and how does this affect your way of life?

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