• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 9
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 17584
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:45 pm

"President Trump in a July phone call repeatedly pressured the president of Ukraine to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s son, urging Volodymyr Zelensky about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani, his personal lawyer, on a probe, according to people familiar with the matter."

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defe ... _lead_pos1

Walnuts Giuliani, always here to help [make it worse]:

"President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani gave conflicting answers in an interview on CNN on Thursday night as to whether he asked Ukraine to look into former Vice President Joe Biden, saying at one point "of course I did.""

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... en-seconds

Looking forward to all the conservatives harping on about accountability in the Trudeau thread use some of it here :rotfl:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
User avatar
jdstJD
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:40 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:50 pm

I was wondering when someone was going to create this thread, lol.

Oh and btw, furious cannot begin to describe the way I feel about this. I hope the whistleblower goes directly to congress and does not allow Barr, et al get away with blocking the truth from coming out so the problem, whatever it actually ends up being, can be properly addressed. This is ridiculous.
Lawyer, frequent air traveler and aviation enthusiast.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:55 pm

Someone "at a higher pay grade than Director of National Intelligence" is telling people not to testify

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
jetwet1
Posts: 2919
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:20 pm

seb146 wrote:
Someone "at a higher pay grade than Director of National Intelligence" is telling people not to testify

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html


Wouldn't that be obstructing an investigation?
 
User avatar
johnboy
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:34 pm

Sounds like high crimes and misdemeanors to me. That the neutered Trump brigade isn’t on here screaming talking points from white nationalist sites already must exhibit a growing Trump fatigue.

Ha!
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 10046
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:51 pm

yes, heard about it and indeed, I was wondering the same when someone would create a tread about it. Anyhow, just another unethical thing about Trump, so? If the las 10.000plus lies didn't do it, why would this?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 9729
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:08 pm

johnboy wrote:
Sounds like high crimes and misdemeanors to me. That the neutered Trump brigade isn’t on here screaming talking points from white nationalist sites already must exhibit a growing Trump fatigue.

Ha!


They won’t care - anything from anyone working intelligence these days is ‘deep state plots’ and ‘fake’. That’s what fake patriots believe, anyway.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
wingman
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:58 pm

johnboy wrote:
Sounds like high crimes and misdemeanors to me. That the neutered Trump brigade isn’t on here screaming talking points from white nationalist sites already must exhibit a growing Trump fatigue.

Ha!

I just checked Fox and Breitbart. Neither has their talking points up yet so not much our local site tools can do for now. I figure we’ll see a mix of Obama and Emails on this one. Actual transcripts on this one may seal impeachment. Someone please confirm for me, inviting foreign powers to interfere in an election process is high crimes and misdemeanors right? I know the Orange Core will argue it’s totally patriotic but what does constitutional law say?
 
D L X
Posts: 12483
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:18 am

Dutchy wrote:
yes, heard about it and indeed, I was wondering the same when someone would create a tread about it. Anyhow, just another unethical thing about Trump, so? If the las 10.000plus lies didn't do it, why would this?

Not unethical. Felonious.

Using public responsibilities for personal gain lands politicians in jail. Trump will be jailed for this at some point. Probably where blagojevich went.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2113
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:27 am

D L X wrote:
Using public responsibilities for personal gain lands politicians in jail. Trump will be jailed for this at some point. Probably where blagojevich went.


For now, nonetheless, both Bidens (Joe and Hunter) are totally free. And there aren’t any case against them pending.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2113
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:35 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
"President Trump in a July phone call repeatedly pressured the president of Ukraine to investigate Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s son, urging Volodymyr Zelensky about eight times to work with Rudy Giuliani, his personal lawyer, on a probe, according to people familiar with the matter."


President Trump haven’t completely understood one thing - this is Ukraine. There, all key decisions and their execution is based upon a consensus between a few oligarchic groups. The President and Parliament there are either for staging shows, or putting on paper (e.g. laws) those decisions. Outside of this consensus - the President is nobody, and nothing depends upon him. Hence I really don’t see why Trump would want to talk to Zelensky and what about. He needs to get in contact with Oligarchs, beginning with Benny.
 
User avatar
777222LR
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:45 am

Y'all, any way you slice it, this president stinks to high heaven. Every day we find out about something he's done, said, tried, or lied about. I don't know how you can support this and call yourself a good person. Does this man inspire you to be a better person? Do you hold him up as a role model to your kids? Just curious. I get defending your party and values, fine...but this guy? Come on.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2934
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:37 am

jdstJD wrote:
I was wondering when someone was going to create this thread, lol.

Oh and btw, furious cannot begin to describe the way I feel about this. I hope the whistleblower goes directly to congress and does not allow Barr, et al get away with blocking the truth from coming out so the problem, whatever it actually ends up being, can be properly addressed. This is ridiculous.


I was wondering the same thing but I think even a.net leftists are beginning to catch on that everything Trump does is seized upon by leakers hoping to catch him and it always ends in disappointment. I actually wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Trump planned this one. Joe Biden's son should be the second biggest story of the decade but like the counter investigation (#1), the media (outside Fox) ignores it completely. Now of course the media is forced to cover the Biden scandal even though it will be downplayed, because they think the story is about nailing Trump. Biden should be investigated for this even if he weren't running (because just like with another recent candidate, the punishment for breaking the law is not merely you don't get to be President) and it involves the Ukraine government so of course that's who he has to get information from, the source itself.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 17584
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:16 am

afcjets wrote:

I was wondering the same thing but I think even a.net leftists are beginning to catch on that everything Trump does is seized upon by leakers hoping to catch him and it always ends in disappointment. I actually wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Trump planned this one.

You think the guy who has the IQ and foresight of a mushroom planned....anything? Bless your heart.
afcjets wrote:
Joe Biden's son should be the second biggest story of the decade

Wut. What exactly do you think Hunter did? Why do I feel like this is pizzagate part II? :roll: But I feel like there was something else related to Ukraine recently that came from the fake newz Russia NO COLLUSION investigation. What was it? Maybe you can help me remember....someone went to jail but the details escape me. :rotfl:

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
yes, heard about it and indeed, I was wondering the same when someone would create a tread about it. Anyhow, just another unethical thing about Trump, so? If the las 10.000plus lies didn't do it, why would this?


This thing has nothing to do with Trump. It’s about Biden.

Ah so it's not the treason, it's the object of the treason that's really at fault here. :roll:
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 2721
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:24 am

wingman wrote:
johnboy wrote:
Sounds like high crimes and misdemeanors to me. That the neutered Trump brigade isn’t on here screaming talking points from white nationalist sites already must exhibit a growing Trump fatigue.

Ha!

I just checked Fox and Breitbart. Neither has their talking points up yet so not much our local site tools can do for now. I figure we’ll see a mix of Obama and Emails on this one. Actual transcripts on this one may seal impeachment. Someone please confirm for me, inviting foreign powers to interfere in an election process is high crimes and misdemeanors right? I know the Orange Core will argue it’s totally patriotic but what does constitutional law say?


Not sure its interfering with an election when it's a candidates son. Though, I'm sure that's how people would frame it. We already know his son has had some shady dealings in china for instance.

What makes this a felony anyways? Anyone have the specific section of US code? Honest inquiry.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14331
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:36 am

I can be reasonably assumed that Joe Biden's one son is involved in business dealings using the connections his former Senator and VP dad in the Ukraine and likely to be very shady as to the local investors and politicians involved. Yes, it can and should be brought up as to Joe Biden's campaign. However, if Pres. Trump was using extortion of holding back funding from the USA to the Ukrainian by saying the Ukrainian President to go after Biden's son, in effect a bribe, and a violation of the anti-bribery acts of the USA, then that makes Trump's act to be considered an impeachable offense. Both Trump and Joe Biden have put their respective 'spins' on their stories, Trump saying that as President he has unilateral powers to do such deals, Biden that the deals have been reviewed by authorities in the USA and no problem.

Like many I say a pox on both houses, this is likely to become a stalemate, unlikely to really help those who want Trump to be Impeached or lose in 2020 and may hurt Joe Biden's campaign as had hurt himself before.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:00 am

jetwet1 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Someone "at a higher pay grade than Director of National Intelligence" is telling people not to testify

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html


Wouldn't that be obstructing an investigation?


If it were any Democrat, yes. He would have been thrown in SuperMax already. But, this guy gets a pass because gotta pwn the libs.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:04 am

ltbewr wrote:
I can be reasonably assumed that Joe Biden's one son is involved in business dealings using the connections his former Senator and VP dad in the Ukraine and likely to be very shady as to the local investors and politicians involved. Yes, it can and should be brought up as to Joe Biden's campaign. However, if Pres. Trump was using extortion of holding back funding from the USA to the Ukrainian by saying the Ukrainian President to go after Biden's son, in effect a bribe, and a violation of the anti-bribery acts of the USA, then that makes Trump's act to be considered an impeachable offense. Both Trump and Joe Biden have put their respective 'spins' on their stories, Trump saying that as President he has unilateral powers to do such deals, Biden that the deals have been reviewed by authorities in the USA and no problem.

Like many I say a pox on both houses, this is likely to become a stalemate, unlikely to really help those who want Trump to be Impeached or lose in 2020 and may hurt Joe Biden's campaign as had hurt himself before.


Hunter Biden is a very powerful attorney. He is partner at one law firm and council at another. Could it be that his name got him noticed and his work got him hired? Could it be that, other than his last name, this has zero to do with Joe Biden? Why are those not possibilities?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 1742
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:20 am

afcjets wrote:
jdstJD wrote:
I was wondering when someone was going to create this thread, lol.

Oh and btw, furious cannot begin to describe the way I feel about this. I hope the whistleblower goes directly to congress and does not allow Barr, et al get away with blocking the truth from coming out so the problem, whatever it actually ends up being, can be properly addressed. This is ridiculous.


I was wondering the same thing but I think even a.net leftists are beginning to catch on that everything Trump does is seized upon by leakers hoping to catch him and it always ends in disappointment. I actually wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Trump planned this one. Joe Biden's son should be the second biggest story of the decade but like the counter investigation (#1), the media (outside Fox) ignores it completely. Now of course the media is forced to cover the Biden scandal even though it will be downplayed, because they think the story is about nailing Trump. Biden should be investigated for this even if he weren't running (because just like with another recent candidate, the punishment for breaking the law is not merely you don't get to be President) and it involves the Ukraine government so of course that's who he has to get information from, the source itself.


It’s already being downplayed, even though Biden actually bragged about it. :roll:
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 7608
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:20 pm

I like how we've gone from "there was no call" to "yes, there was a call, but not to any leader" to "there was a call to Ukraine's president, but I don't have to disclose the contents".

It's even funnier that the same administration that says people have to turn in their phones for searches when crossing the border is unwilling to come clean and show the phone transcript. After all, if people crossing into the US should hand their phones for search under the guise of "you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide", then the administration being paid with tax dollars should also follow the principle. And no doubt we'll see the Trump defenders saying that because Trump forgoes the $400k/yr salary, he's technically not a paid federal employee...as if that's reason enough to exclude him from accountability.

Just more of "do as I say not as I do".
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
anrec80
Posts: 2113
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 3:46 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I like how we've gone from "there was no call" to "yes, there was a call, but not to any leader" to "there was a call to Ukraine's president, but I don't have to disclose the contents".

It's even funnier that the same administration that says people have to turn in their phones for searches when crossing the border is unwilling to come clean and show the phone transcript. After all, if people crossing into the US should hand their phones for search under the guise of "you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide", then the administration being paid with tax dollars should also follow the principle. And no doubt we'll see the Trump defenders saying that because Trump forgoes the $400k/yr salary, he's technically not a paid federal employee...as if that's reason enough to exclude him from accountability.

Just more of "do as I say not as I do".


Well, in international relations it’s common, reasonable and normal to keep the transcripts of talks private. Any country does so. And you don’t just go and publish the details of your talks with foreign leaders (or even officials, diplomats) just because someone in your country wants you to. Had it been the details of talks between Trump and Pence, Trump and Giuliani - it’s a different story, and it would be solely American business, but when a foreign country involved - it’s not.

On the other hand - such demand shows real Biden’s attitude towards Ukraine. He doesn’t regard that as a country even I guess (and I’d say he has grounds for that). There were similar demands for Putin-Trump talks transcripts, but those did not get anywhere.
 
mham001
Posts: 5616
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:14 pm

johnboy wrote:
Sounds like high crimes and misdemeanors to me. That the neutered Trump brigade isn’t on here screaming talking points from white nationalist sites already must exhibit a growing Trump fatigue.

Ha!


It's more fun to wait, get the rest of the story, then come back and make fun of the kneejerks.

I never knew about the Biden thing. It appears to stink. Biden doesn't want to talk about it either. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... en-1507051

The controversy can be traced back to March 2014, when Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula in Eastern Ukraine, setting off an international crisis. As the administration’s point-man on Ukraine, Biden led the U.S. response.

That April, Biden’s son, Hunter, was appointed to the board of Burisma Holdings, a Ukrainian natural gas company, despite lacking substantive experience working in Ukraine or the energy sector. He received compensation that was reportedly as high as $50,000 a month.

At the time, Burisma was seeking to build inroads to U.S. Democrats as it faced investigative scrutiny. The same month Hunter Biden joined Burisma, the U.K. government froze bank accounts that allegedly belonged to its owner, Mykola Zlochevsky, as part of a money laundering investigation.

Two years later, Joe Biden successfully pressured the Ukrainian government to remove its prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, who was unpopular with Western leaders, threatening to withhold loan guarantees if it did not. At the time, Shokin's office had open probes of Burisma and Zlochevsky. Shokin’s successor closed the investigations, but then reopened an investigation of Burisma last year.


Notable how the administration tied aid money to removing the prosecutor, "extortion" the US and all aid givers have always done.

BTW, wasn't the Obama administration investigating Trump during the presidential campaign?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:23 pm

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Hunter Biden is a very powerful attorney. He is partner at one law firm and council at another. Could it be that his name got him noticed and his work got him hired? Could it be that, other than his last name, this has zero to do with Joe Biden? Why are those not possibilities?


Well, when Hunter is involved in some corrupted swamp (and it’s not possible not to get into one when in Ukraine), and his father is using his VP position to get the Attorney General who takes a look at his son’s dealings fired - that does trigger questions, right? Maybe he isn’t that powerful? Perhaps some integrity issues?


My only question is why are we deflecting to Hunter Biden when the occupant of the White House asked a foreign government to dig up dirt on his American political opponent's son? Knowingly working with a foreign and corrupt power. He needs to be removed and prosecuted.

Do you have a link reporting that Joe Biden is trying to get the AG fired over Hunter?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:43 pm

Isn't it also interesting that the same people who demanded Bill Clinton and Obama were secrative and lying and not being transparent are now sitting back and saying "the White House should keep secrets and not release information to the public" and "who cares who he talked to? Why is this an issue?"?

I have brought this up several times in several places but no one on the right wants to talk about this double standard. If Republicans demand Democratic leaders be held to an impossibly high standard, they should also demand their own leaders be held to the same impossibly high standard. Otherwise, get out of the way.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
anrec80
Posts: 2113
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:33 pm

seb146 wrote:
My only question is why are we deflecting to Hunter Biden when the occupant of the White House asked a foreign government to dig up dirt on his American political opponent's son? Knowingly working with a foreign and corrupt power. He needs to be removed and prosecuted.


In international relations, mutual prosecution agreement and crime data sharing is common. There are agreements between many counties, United States included. Yes, this “power” is quite corrupt, and I do not find anything good for the USA or its political system in this. The best solution would be some agreement between the groups of Trump and Biden that involves not using Ukraine in any investigation. Which will pretty much involve reducing dealings with Ukraine and pretty much leaving that country alone. What I think should happen, and the USA should not even get involved there in the first place.

seb146 wrote:
Do you have a link reporting that Joe Biden is trying to get the AG fired over Hunter?


The story I was referring has been provided by the previous poster, mham001.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 17584
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:33 pm

seb146 wrote:
. If Republicans demand Democratic leaders be held to an impossibly high standard, they should also demand their own leaders be held to the same impossibly high standard. Otherwise, get out of the way.

If they did that there would be no republican party
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BN747
Posts: 6811
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:08 pm

American leadership has now entered the realm of being a nation that will openly practice extortion of lesser nations.

I thought Agnew was as bad as it could ever get, going around squeezing leaders for cash - literally.

While Agnew only hit up PMs, vice-PMs and secondary leaders up for 100K or so...the new thugs/thieves go for millions.

It appears Hunter Biden and his Ukraine oligarch pal had a $1.5+ Billion deal in the works and Rudy & the Criminal-in-Chief wanted to much up this deal as Obama trashed th Exxon Mobil $500 mil deal (thus the Tillerson appointment and fail).

As Congress approved the $250 mil aid deal but held up by the Criminal-in-Chief until an agreement to trash Biden family was reached.
Plus the kind of assistance Russia gave in 2016, but needed again in 2020.

It's the only way to win. Can't win over the voters, so steal their votes...that's the goal.

He used Congressionally approved (taxpayer money) to extort Ukraine leadership into doing his bidding.

Extortion by an American president...if this isn't impeachable (plus treasonous)...what is?


BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:12 pm

seb146 wrote:
My only question is why are we deflecting to Hunter Biden when the occupant of the White House asked a foreign government to dig up dirt on his American political opponent's son? Knowingly working with a foreign and corrupt power. He needs to be removed and prosecuted. .... Do you have a link reporting that Joe Biden is trying to get the AG fired over Hunter?


Biden didn't try to get the Ukrainian prosecutor fired, he DID get him fired. Here's your link:

https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affai ... -joe-biden

Quote from the transcript of the video: "and I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.
So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him. (Laughter.) I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time."


Watch as the current front runner for president of the democrat party describes in detail how he blackmailed a foreign government with US funds to fire a prosecutor who was investigating a company that his son works for. No spin will absolve this conflict of interest that he boasts using for his own personal gain.

Some good analysis: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... is-revived

"Ukrainian officials tell me there was one crucial piece of information that Biden must have known but didn’t mention to his audience: The prosecutor he got fired was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into the natural gas firm Burisma Holdings that employed Biden’s younger son, Hunter, as a board member.

U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden’s American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one of its accounts — usually more than $166,000 a month — from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia.

The general prosecutor’s official file for the Burisma probe — shared with me by senior Ukrainian officials — shows prosecutors identified Hunter Biden, business partner Devon Archer and their firm, Rosemont Seneca, as potential recipients of money.

Shokin told me in written answers to questions that, before he was fired as general prosecutor, he had made “specific plans” for the investigation that “included interrogations and other crime-investigation procedures into all members of the executive board, including Hunter Biden.
”"


I have no idea if Trump said or did anything improper or illegal, and as I have consistently posted here, if he did, he needs to be held accountable. But, It seems that this is just such an impossible coincidence that once again the left is outraged about something Trump has allegedly done and when we dig into the real issue at the root of the outrage it is actually about Trump's likely opponent in the 2020 election.

This is just too much of a coincidence. I suspect that this is just another 5 STAR trolling effort by Trump, and you all fell for it. Trump is simply inside the left's (your) OODA loop and is simply driving them (you) where he wants them (you) to go.

Stand by for the usual insults from the usual suspects in 3.....2.....1.....

Mike Drop
 
mham001
Posts: 5616
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:39 pm

Yes, once more of the story comes out, it is indeed quite damning - for Biden. This is backfiring bigtime on Democrats.

I am not sure why people would be up in arms about a US President using his power to expose US corruption? If you can say he was doing it for his personal financial dealings, he should be impeached. He isn't. This troupe about using aid for coercion is longstanding practice by EVERYBODY.
In Biden's own words, "If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money." Except this benefited his own son. I'm sorry, this indeed should be investigated.

BTW, wasn't the Obama administration actively investigating candidate Trump during the campaign?
Last edited by mham001 on Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
wingman
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:00 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
I have no idea if Trump said or did anything improper or illegal, and as I have consistently posted here, if he did, he needs to be held accountable. But, It seems that this is just such an impossible coincidence that once again the left is outraged about something Trump has allegedly done and when we dig into the real issue at the root of the outrage it is actually about Trump's likely opponent in the 2020 election.Mike Drop


If what Biden did was illegal it's possible Trump forgot that he has an awesome apparatus of investigation, prosecution and justice right here in the United States at his command. There's no need to break the law by asking a foreign government to do this for him in exchange for money. If Biden broke the law he should be investigated by the FBI. If everything you've posted is known by the public I assume it must also be known by the very Trump appointees that run the Department of Justice. I can only assume that Trump has been told many, many times that Hillary cannot simply be locked up and that Joe Biden has either not committed a crime acting as Vice president of the United States or that there's insufficient proof to launch an investigation, or if one was actually completed, then to file charges against him. Trump obviously doesn't like this answer and if these stories are true then he may have committed a high crime by asking a foreign government to do the job for him.

You're goddamn right it's outrageous and it's sad as hell that you aren't also outraged by it. You do understand the situational difference in the two examples above right? I'm making that assumption but will be happy to spend part of my Saturday explaining it to you, no insults whatsoever. I'll break it down in easy to understand blocks of reality and logic. You'd get it by this afternoon though I have a feeling you wouldn't admit it. If you need and want the explanation let me know.
 
wingman
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:03 pm

mham001 wrote:
Now that you reasonably admit that the whole thing stinks of corruption - all the way up - why wouldn't it be the purview of the president to see that it is rightfully investigated?


You do understand that asking a foreign government over your very own DOJ to investigate a political rival isn't a "rightfully investigated" proposition right? See my explanation to Mike and feel free to join today's lesson.

These defenses of Trump's actions by his core base are mind-boggling.
 
mham001
Posts: 5616
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:06 pm

wingman wrote:
There's no need to break the law by asking a foreign government to do this for him in exchange for money.


Stop. Can you provide the law the prohibits strings attached to foreign aid or its timely disbursement?

And while I give you that it could benefit Trump (already has), doesn't it benefit the American people as well to root out this garbage? Now, if Trump or his DOJ were to suddenly start looking into this, YOU and all the other kneejerks in here would be screaming bloody murder about Trump abusing..something. Isn't that right?
 
mham001
Posts: 5616
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:09 pm

wingman wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Now that you reasonably admit that the whole thing stinks of corruption - all the way up - why wouldn't it be the purview of the president to see that it is rightfully investigated?


You do understand that asking a foreign government over your very own DOJ to investigate a political rival isn't a "rightfully investigated" proposition right? See my explanation to Mike and feel free to join today's lesson.

These defenses of Trump's actions by his core base are mind-boggling.


It is a Ukrainian company, working on Ukrainian soil, telling Ukrainians to look into their own corruption is a crime worthy action?

Trump is going to win this battle and the one hope Democrats had of beating him in 2020 has been destroyed. Moderate Americans such as myself would have given Biden strong consideration. Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren? You got to be kidding.
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:20 pm

wingman wrote:
MikeDrop wrote:
I have no idea if Trump said or did anything improper or illegal, and as I have consistently posted here, if he did, he needs to be held accountable. But, It seems that this is just such an impossible coincidence that once again the left is outraged about something Trump has allegedly done and when we dig into the real issue at the root of the outrage it is actually about Trump's likely opponent in the 2020 election.Mike Drop


If what Biden did was illegal it's possible Trump forgot that he has an awesome apparatus of investigation, prosecution and justice right here in the United States at his command. There's no need to break the law by asking a foreign government to do this for him in exchange for money. If Biden broke the law he should be investigated by the FBI. If everything you've posted is known by the public I assume it must also be known by the very Trump appointees that run the Department of Justice. I can only assume that Trump has been told many, many times that Hillary cannot simply be locked up and that Joe Biden has either not committed a crime acting as Vice president of the United States or that there's insufficient proof to launch an investigation, or if one was actually completed, then to file charges against him. Trump obviously doesn't like this answer and if these stories are true then he may have committed a high crime by asking a foreign government to do the job for him.

You're goddamn right it's outrageous and it's sad as hell that you aren't also outraged by it. You do understand the situational difference in the two examples above right? I'm making that assumption but will be happy to spend part of my Saturday explaining it to you, no insults whatsoever. I'll break it down in easy to understand blocks of reality and logic. You'd get it by this afternoon though I have a feeling you wouldn't admit it. If you need and want the explanation let me know.


What do I need to be outraged about? Here's what the WSJ said on this today: https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-defe ... 1568993176

"Mr. Trump in the call didn’t mention a provision of U.S. aid to Ukraine, said this person, who didn’t believe Mr. Trump offered the Ukrainian president any quid pro quo for his cooperation on any investigation."

So, whats the big deal, other than Trump just took his strongest challenger out. You don't seem to be outraged that the Obama administration worked with British Intelligence to investigate and smear then candidate Trump during the 2016 election. What's the old saying? "Two can play at this game"? Or "whats good for the goose is good for the gander"? Whatever it is, your outrage is just based on your partisanship and frankly, I enjoy seeing you be so upset about it. LOL

But I do love Biden's quote from today:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... al-1507053

“You should be asking him the question: why is he on the phone with a foreign leader, trying to intimidate a foreign leader?” Biden said. “This appears to be an overwhelming abuse of power. To get on the phone with a foreign leader who is looking for help from the United States and ask about me and imply things … this is outrageous. You have never seen anything like this from any president.”

This is quite hilarious. Biden is perfectly describing his own actions, total. baldfaced. bullshit. Standby for Trump to take that quote straight to video.

What was it, 3 months ago Trump had all of you defending rats and filth in Baltimore?

2020 is really going to be something. I really hope that Creepy Joe stays in the race long enough to inflict even more damage on the Dems.

LOL

Mike Drop
 
wingman
Posts: 3776
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:20 pm

mham001 wrote:
Stop. Can you provide the law the prohibits strings attached to foreign aid or its timely disbursement?


You're right, I don't know the legality of it or otherwise. I guess it could be perfectly legal. But the precedent is truly awful isn't it? I mean any sitting President would now have the precedent set to literally go on national television and offer $500M in "aid" to any foreign government that can provide dirt on his forthcoming election rivals. That, in effect, is what your condoning. Are you really OK with this?
 
bennett123
Posts: 8947
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:33 pm

mham001

No chance of them charging Biden with anything, they haven’t even charged Hilary yet.

Why is that?.
 
mham001
Posts: 5616
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:37 pm

wingman wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Stop. Can you provide the law the prohibits strings attached to foreign aid or its timely disbursement?


You're right, I don't know the legality of it or otherwise. I guess it could be perfectly legal. But the precedent is truly awful isn't it? I mean any sitting President would now have the precedent set to literally go on national television and offer $500M in "aid" to any foreign government that can provide dirt on his forthcoming election rivals. That, in effect, is what your condoning. Are you really OK with this?


My point is, it has been done - ad infinitum and has been duly noted and commented on by many around the world. And done by EVERYBODY. If you think the Chinese money being handed out all over is string-free, you are grossly naive.
 
mham001
Posts: 5616
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:41 pm

bennett123 wrote:
mham001

No chance of them charging Biden with anything, they haven’t even charged Hilary yet.

Why is that?.


I have no idea. One thing about locking up Hillary is the political capital and negative energy that would entail. Not really worth it, she's done anyway. That would be my attitude.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:01 am

mham001 wrote:
Yes, once more of the story comes out, it is indeed quite damning - for Biden. This is backfiring bigtime on Democrats. I am not sure why people would be up in arms about a US President using his power to expose US corruption? If you can say he was doing it for his personal financial dealings, he should be impeached. He isn't. This troupe about using aid for coercion is longstanding practice by EVERYBODY. In Biden's own words, "If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money.". Except this benefited his own son.


Get the facts straight, please. Biden was named by the Obama Administration as "point-man" in dealings with Ukraine, and it was the policy of our government at that time that, if we were going to supply the financial aid to that country, they needed a more active fight against corruption - and the prosecutor general was not doing that. He was fired because he was not doing his job - not because he was doing it.
.
"Ukraine, which has seen two revolutions since the fall of the Soviet Union, has had a bunch of problems with corruption in its various governments’ ranks. Viktor Shokin, who was appointed prosecutor general in February 2015, tasked with rooting out that corruption, was fired in 2016. And the Obama administration, including Biden, pushed for him to be removed, since by most accounts he was not actually very good at fighting corruption.

His successor has said that no evidence of any wrongdoing exists in connection with Hunter Biden's role at Burisma. Another former official said that an investigation was opened into the company but was long dormant by the time the US pushed for his exit. And Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center told the Washington Post that 'Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation.'


(Emphasis added)

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hayesbrown/trump-ukraine-biden-giuliani-whistleblower-explain
.
mham001 wrote:
BTW, wasn't the Obama administration actively investigating candidate Trump during the campaign?


No.

MikeDrop wrote:
Some good analysis: https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... is-revived
"]Ukrainian officials tell me there was one crucial piece of information that Biden must have known but didn’t mention to his audience: The prosecutor he got fired was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into the natural gas firm Burisma Holdings that employed Biden’s younger son, Hunter, as a board member.
U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden’s American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one of its accounts — usually more than $166,000 a month — from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia.
The general prosecutor’s official file for the Burisma probe — shared with me by senior Ukrainian officials — shows prosecutors identified Hunter Biden, business partner Devon Archer and their firm, Rosemont Seneca, as potential recipients of money.


No, not such a "good analysis". An article by a right-wing "journalist" (who, based on his history, has trouble keeping a job) tries - without evidence, of course - to claim that "the prosecutor got fired... leading a wide-ranging corruption probe..." (Note that nothing says he was fired because he was leading that probe - that might subject the writer to liable claims - but the innuendo was enough to get right-wingers frothing at the mouth. In fact, as noted above, he was fired because he wasn't proceeding with the probe).. So who is the writer? Perhaps his history will shed some light into that:
.

"Solomon is among the best-traveled journalists around the Beltway. He has worked at the Associated Press, The Washington Post, the Washington Times, the Center for Public Integrity, Newsweek/The Daily Beast, the Washington Guardian, Circa and The Hill. As he moves around, he leaves an interesting trail for media reporters to follow. Last summer, for instance, Solomon announced that he was jumping from Circa, a general news site owned by the conservative Sinclair Broadcast Group, to The Hill. “The Hill’s spectacular rise as the leading outlet for political news coverage speaks to a far-reaching vision for digitally-powered growth,” Solomon said in a statement. “Joining The Hill team at this time, when the outlet is seeing just the first fruits of that vision, is an incredibly exciting opportunity. I’m looking forward to working with some of today’s most talented journalists to create a new political genre for the mobile generation, providing unmatched, non-partisan political news and bipartisan shows in the digital formats they love.” Employees at The Hill would take issue with the “non-partisan” promise. According to sources consulted by this blog, there’s frustration that Solomon appears so tight with Hannity, the prime-time Trump apologist who has admitted straight-up that he’s no journalist. Over the past three months, Solomon has turned in a dozen or so appearances on “Hannity.” The TV hits may be good for traffic at TheHill.com, though the implications for up-and-coming journalists at the publication are less salutary: Their employer comes off as a propaganda mill."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/01/17/staffers-at-the-hill-press-management-about-the-work-of-john-solomon/
.

So... a Hannity/Trump hack files an innuendo-filled hit piece... and some people don't even know the difference in facts (cited, backed-up by real information), and yellow journalism. That doesn't say much for the future of our "enlightened" democracy.


seb146 wrote:
This is the biggest nothingburger to date. Just because one guy occupying the White House says it is something does not mean it is anything.



:checkmark: But it certainly excites his "base" - and the reprobates who still buy into his flim-flam...

The real fact-checkers - Politifact - come to these conclusions:

Key takeaways

• Hunter Biden did hold a directorship for a Ukrainian gas company while his father was vice president. Experts agree that Hunter Biden's acceptance of the position created a conflict of interest for his father.

• Vice President Joe Biden did urge Ukraine to fire its top prosecutor, with the threat of withholding U.S. aid. But that was the position of the wider U.S. government, as well as other international institutions.

• We found no evidence to support the idea that Joe Biden advocated with his son's interests in mind, as the message suggests. It's not even clear that the company was actively under investigation or that a change in prosecutors benefited it.


https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/

.

It's that simple. In the end, it will be interesting who started pushing the story; far-right bloggers, the "Internet Research Group" in St. Peterburg... or a combination of all of those who see Biden as a threat to Trump. That is the story that will have legs.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:57 am

Apparently, the current occupant of the White House hates that Ukraine decided on democracy and not Putin

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/us/p ... oRB6FELakw
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
alfa164
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:14 am

seb146 wrote:
Apparently, the current occupant of the White House hates that Ukraine decided on democracy and not Putin
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/us/p ... oRB6FELakw


From the article:

"After Mr. Zelensky’s victory, Mr. Giuliani planned a trip to Ukraine in May to try to press Mr. Zelensky’s team to pursue the investigations and to meet with people Mr. Giuliani believed would have insights into the new administration and the investigations he was pushing. “We’re not meddling in an election, we’re meddling in an investigation, which we have a right to do,” Mr. Giuliani said at the time."

Giuliani is the gift that keeps on giving...

:roll:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
alfa164
Posts: 3026
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:50 pm

mham001 wrote:
Politifact is being quite disingenuous when it claims there was no active investigation at the time of Shokins firing, in fact the lead American lawyer Buretta, a Clinton crony, met with Lutsenko twice before he was appointed to replace Shokin. Lutsenko pursued it for ten more months before dropping it. It has since been reopened. If they have that wrong, what else?.


Yeah, because your right-wing, innuendo-filled-but-lacking-in-actual-fact sources are so much more reliable than an actual fact-checking organization.

;)

Facts are stubborn things; they don't go away easily. And the facts are:

• Hunter Biden did hold a directorship for a Ukrainian gas company while his father was vice president. Experts agree that Hunter Biden's acceptance of the position created a conflict of interest for his father.
• Vice President Joe Biden did urge Ukraine to fire its top prosecutor, with the threat of withholding U.S. aid. But that was the position of the wider U.S. government, as well as other international institutions.
• We found no evidence to support the idea that Joe Biden advocated with his son's interests in mind, as the message suggests. It's not even clear that the company was actively under investigation or that a change in prosecutors benefited it.


Can you dispute any of those facts with evidence... or just refer back to a hit-piece from a right-wing sheet?

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/

.

The U.S. Government, the E.U., and the I.M.F. had all agreed that the prosecutor had to be removed before more funds were provided to Ukraine:

There was strong resistance to the reforms from within the service. In 2015 and 2016, then-prosecutor general Viktor Shokin sought to confound the lustration and appointment processes by placing Yanukovych-era personnel in positions of power before the QDPC became operational. These pre-emptive moves ran counter to one of the core purposes of the new law: to force lustration upon the service. Shokin later personally intervened in several anti-corruption investigations – in a move that echoed pre-revolutionary Ukraine and explicitly contradicted the provisions of the 2014 law.

Can you admit that the removal of the prosecutor general was a policy of the Western governments, as a precursor to providing financial support to Ukraine?

https://www.ecfr.eu/publications/summary/guarding_the_guardians_ukraine_security_and_judicial_reforms_under_zelensky

.

And keep in mind, it wasn't any one person who "fired" the ineffective prosecutor general; Ukraine's parliament voted to remove him. Are they part of the conspiracy, too?

Ukraine’s parliament voted overwhelmingly to fire Viktor Shokin, ridding the beleaguered prosecutor’s office of a figure who is accused of blocking major cases against allies and influential figures and stymying moves to root out graft.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

.
Unfortunately, this subject has migrated from real concern about the president's abuse of power to a hit job on one of his opponents for the 2020 election; it should be time to focus on the issue at hand. These attempts at diversion, mids-direction, and outright misinformation obscure the cancer that is growing in the White House.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:38 pm

I read an interesting idea someone had about calling for a censure vote in the House against the occupant of the White House. This would force Republicans to pick a side. Either to tell the nation that laws were broken and he must be held accountable or that they don't care laws were broken.

He is simply picking and choosing which facts he wants to see because he wants his followers to believe him and not their own eyes. It is frightening and disgusting.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
anrec80
Posts: 2113
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:54 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
That's not the question. Would you support a Democrat President going after, oh idunno, Russia/Saudi Arabia/Seychelles/Qatar, to pursue Trump and associates via their shady dealings?


If there is a suspicion that the laws were broken - yes, I would support the idea of U.S. authorities cooperating with foreign law enforcement authorities on the matter. Regardless who the person in question is - an ordinary citizen, an acting President, a Presidential candidate. However, it should be American authorities who would be taking charge. They certainly need to verify all the facts and evidence, and also - respect and maintain privacy of the person all the way until there is some sort of an American court decision (say, to begin trials, an arrest warrant, etc. ).

And the investigation needs to be professional enough not to intrude with daily activities of that person before there is anything at all. We have all seen too many groundless accusations over the past few years that paralyzed and damaged the political system in this country. Nearly all of them ended up being unproven allegations.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 20748
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:17 pm

AG Barr has not sent the whistle blower complaint to The House and may not. Which is the opposite of what he is supposed to do.

Also, because Republicans refuse to do anything about their out of control leader obstructing, lying, stonewalling, changing the subject, working with foreign governments to dig up dirt on his perceived opponents, Republicans can not, in the future, whine and complain and investigate any Democrat from here on out.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:11 pm

Here’s former Republican Congressman Joe Scarborough and former Republican National Committee chairman Michael Steele this morning reviewing the facts and fiction of the Trump claims. https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_contin ... jGrxH0ZjXw
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 9332
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:15 pm

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/ ... ll-1507289

I wonder what the bridge between Trump actively calling for an investigation of a political challenger and his son 8 times in a call to a foreign power will be built with "a level of transparency" from a President that has distinct alternative facts that do not get to the Truth.

"Though Graham described talks with other world leaders as “one of the most privileged matters any president would have,” he predicted that “you’re going to find more about that phone call in the coming days” and said Americans would be “surprised about the level of transparency” from the White House regarding the conversation with Zelensky."
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 9332
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:49 pm

Even the GOP challengers thinks Trump is committing Treason . Though technically not Treason, it shows that there are members within the GOP not happy with Trump.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/gop ... aine-call/

He’s now acknowledged that in a single phone call, right after he suspended 250 million dollars of military aid to Ukraine, he called up the president of Ukraine and pressed him eight times to investigate Joe Biden, who the president thinks is going to be running against him,” Weld continued. “Talk about pressuring a foreign country to interfere with and control a U.S. election. It couldn’t be clearer, and that’s not just undermining democratic institutions. That is treason. It’s treason and pure and simple and the penalty for treason under the U.S. code is death.”
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
apodino
Posts: 3581
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:54 pm

In this situation there are major problems on both sides. Initially, this started because of some shady dealings with Ukraine that Biden engaged in that seemed to benefit his son. Regardless of the Trump situation, if details on that front emerge Biden is toast. That just reeks of the type of cronyism and elitism that the Tea Party on the right, and Bernie, Warren, and even AOC on the left have been trying to fight for years.

What happened with Trump is that somehow the Trump Administration was tipped off to the Biden situation, and Trump saw a golden opportunity to use this situation for political gain. (This isn't about prosecuting Biden, its about Political gain for Trump) Now instead of getting the Justice Department to investigate the facts and see where they lead, Trump decides to deal with the foreign government directly, and get their help for political gain. This in my opinion is impeachable if it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. If the Justice Department alone is involved in this investigation, the only discussion we would be having is about Biden. Now Trump commits this unforced error, and IMO its impeachable. But you still have to prove he did it, and a whistleblower allegation is not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Nadler has to investigate this, period.

I think Pelosi is playing the wise game politically by not rushing impeachment as some Democrats want. The problem is, if you impeach him before the election, or even the convention, the republicans can put someone else out there. Now with all the energy against Trump and all the opposition research against trump, all of a sudden instead of Trump you find you are running against Nikki Haley lets say. Nikki Haley is far more likeable than Trump, and also happens to be a minority Woman as well. If Trump is reelected even with all this craziness, then you impeach. If you impeach sooner, you make it easier for the GOP to win the election especially given other than Biden, who appears to be done, none of the Democrats are particularly likeable either.

Lastly, it seems to me that the Ukraine and Russia are not the best of friends. Given that situation, I wonder how feasible it is that Trump would collude with both nations at the same time? Just a thought.
 
BN747
Posts: 6811
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:41 pm

apodino wrote:
Lastly, it seems to me that the Ukraine and Russia are not the best of friends. Given that situation, I wonder how feasible it is that Trump would collude with both nations at the same time? Just a thought.


The problem there us 'who is the puppet master' behind America's Criminal-in-Chief's colluding with Both Nations - Ukraine and Russia ...are not of his design.

Actions point to...

1) Ukraine - heavy handed diplomacy (extortion)
2)Russia - Kiss Ass diplomacy extraordinaire

...Puppet Master ->Putin and his bitch, the Criminal-in-Chief.

No guess work needed.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 9

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BN747, TheF15Ace and 51 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos