Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 9
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:04 pm

I think what is probably most telling about this is that the Biden camp is being pretty silent about the issue. If this was to their benefit, they'd be blasting it night and day.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14145
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:10 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
I think what is probably most telling about this is that the Biden camp is being pretty silent about the issue. If this was to their benefit, they'd be blasting it night and day.


There is not a lot of benefit to Biden or to Trump in this story. However an investigation into both issues should be launched. If Trump had been smarter, he would have let the DOJ do the digging. Of course if there was nothing for them to investigate, it would seem fortunate to "leak" a story through an internal source that passed on incorrect data to damage a political rival right?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24074
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:57 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
I think what is probably most telling about this is that the Biden camp is being pretty silent about the issue. If this was to their benefit, they'd be blasting it night and day.


Or the Biden camp knows there is no "there" there. Congress still has not received the official whistle blower report. It is still being withheld. I wonder why?
 
wingman
Posts: 4190
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:20 pm

Here's Trump's personal attorney explaining Biden's Ukraine corruption and then tying the Biden family to Whitey Bulger in a $1.5B payoff from China to Joe's drug-addicted son. It sounds insane but here it is, cue video..
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/you-ne ... ddict-son/
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:38 pm

wingman wrote:
Here's Trump's personal attorney explaining Biden's Ukraine corruption and then tying the Biden family to Whitey Bulger in a $1.5B payoff from China to Joe's drug-addicted son. It sounds insane but here it is, cue video..
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/you-ne ... ddict-son/

And here's Mnuchin making things exponentially worse.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... nday-shows

"One cringe-inducing moment came on Meet the Press, when host Chuck Todd asked Mnuchin to explain why Ukraine was provided with $140 million more in US aid than initially expected. Todd asked Mnuchin to account for “how all of the sudden, when the [Ukraine] aid got released, more money showed up. Where did [it] come from? ... they got an additional $140 million they didn’t expect.” Mnuchin hemmed and hawed for about 20 seconds before trying to move on."

“You’re getting into details,” Mnuchin said, declining to do so himself. He then alluded to Trump’s desire for Ukraine to investigate the Biden family and said, “these were not connected issues.”

"That prompted Tapper to retort, “I don’t understand — so it’s okay for Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump to do business all over the world, it’s okay for Ivanka Trump to have copyrights approved all over the world while President Trump is president, but while Vice President Biden was vice president, his son shouldn’t have been able to do business dealings?”

Mnuchin, echoing the dodge he used on Todd, told Tapper, “I don’t really want to go into more of these details.”"

I'm sure it's totally fiiiiiiiiiine and completely above board. :roll: #BuyIvanka
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4643
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:48 pm

The off topic comments and personal attacks in this thread need to stop. Discuss the topic without resorting to attacking other users.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:24 pm

alfa164 wrote:
Can you dispute any of those facts with evidence... or just refer back to a hit-piece from a right-wing sheet?

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2019/may/07/viral-image/fact-checking-joe-biden-hunter-biden-and-ukraine/


That "right-wing sheet" was evidence collected by the author of the book "Secret Empires". While I have not read it, it does include two non-Demcrat types on the cover so I am going to assume they do not have a particular bent. HOWEVER, I did not bother to include this source of the same FACT - there was indeed an ongoing investigation at the time of Shokin's removal. https://www.kyivpost.com/business-wire/ ... reloaded=1

So NO. Politifact did not get that right. What else is wrong?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3997
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:22 pm

mham001 wrote:
That "right-wing sheet" was evidence collected by the author of the book "Secret Empires". While I have not read it, it does include two non-Demcrat types on the cover so I am going to assume they do not have a particular bent. HOWEVER, I did not bother to include this source of the same FACT - there was indeed an ongoing investigation at the time of Shokin's removal. https://www.kyivpost.com/business-wire/ ... reloaded=1 So NO. Politifact did not get that right. What else is wrong?


You never quoted anything from the "source" that supported what you claim - probably because it doesn't say that anywhere. What we do have is are Ukrainian officials - and the the co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center, who agree that there was no investigation proceeding when Shokin was fired. To wit:

His successor has said that no evidence of any wrongdoing exists in connection with Hunter Biden's role at Burisma. Another former official said that an investigation was opened into the company but was long dormant by the time the US pushed for his exit. And Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center told the Washington Post that 'Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation.'"

(Emphasis added)

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hayesbrown/trump-ukraine-biden-giuliani-whistleblower-explain


Bloomberg and the AP back that up:


"Ukraine’s current prosecutor, Yuriy Lutsenko, was quoted by Bloomberg News in May as saying he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Biden or his son. Bloomberg also reported that the investigation into Burisma was dormant at the time Biden pressed for Shokhin’s ouster."

https://www.apnews.com/9d4595ba4f3140c6bb6a3473a91f4a4c


...and does a synopsis of the events and how they happened:


"(1) Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, did take consulting work for a Ukrainian oil company, Burisma, that was under investigation by a Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, for the work under the prior Russian-allied regime. This is where the true part of the Trump disinformation comes to an end.
(2) The problem was that Shokin actively stood in the way of international investigations that the U.S. and other democratic reformers were pursuing.
(3) Vice President Biden, U.S. diplomats, and our E.U. allies all called on the prosecutor to be fired so the corrupt oligarchs could be investigated MORE AGGRESSIVELY. This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."


https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-the-nonsense-trump-biden-ukraine-false-equivalency/

and their point 5 should be well taken:


(5) For the kids in the back:

PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO INTERFERE ON YOUR BEHALF IN DOMESTIC ELECTIONS = VERY BAD.

PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO INVESTIGATE CROOKS = GOOD.



So... who should we believe? The Ukrainian prosecutor... the co-founder of their anti_corruption organization... Bloomberg and the AP... and every other credible witness to the events.... or...

... some poster on A.net, with no evidence? Tough question...

:roll:
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14829
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:58 pm

afcjets wrote:
I was wondering the same thing but I think even a.net leftists are beginning to catch on that everything Trump does is seized upon by leakers hoping to catch him and it always ends in disappointment.


No we caught on that the only way to get rid of him is for someone else winning an election, or impeachment, and Democrats have figured (probably rightly) that the election way is the better way, allowing them to win the senate on Trump's rejection.

We also caught on that this is typical behavior for him, there is really nothing he can do that would surprise anyone.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4643
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:23 pm

Just a reminder that only portions of articles may be copy/pasted (fair use extracts), and all posts require user commentary. As a rule of thumb, no more than roughly half of an article can be posted. Anything beyond a fair use extract is a copyright violation, and we're required to remove it.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:29 pm

And just for some quick context of the level of acceptable corruption in Ukraine...

Mr. Shokin also opened an investigation into the granting of lucrative gas licenses to companies owned by Mr. Zlochevsky when he was the head of the Ukrainian Ministry of Ecology and Natural Resources. Mr. Zlochevsky and Burisma have always vigorously disputed the accusations against them.https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/01/us/p ... raine.html
 
910A
Posts: 1930
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:29 pm

So you post that the investigation of Biden was revived back on April's Fool Day, 2019 from a John Solomon who was formerly employed as an executive and as editor-in-chief for the very far right (editorial ) The Washington Times which was founded by Unification movement leader Sun Myung Moon and still owned by one of his shell companies. The governments in that part of the world all are corrupt in one fashion or another.
Last edited by 910A on Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:33 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Just a reminder that only portions of articles may be copy/pasted (fair use extracts), and all posts require user commentary. As a rule of thumb, no more than roughly half of an article can be posted. Anything beyond a fair use extract is a copyright violation, and we're required to remove it.

✈️ atcsundevil


I strongly object, the quoted portion was significantly less than "half the article" and there was indeed comment on its contents - in both posts. Nice censorship.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4643
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:36 pm

mham001 wrote:
I strongly object, the quoted portion was significantly less than "half the article" and there was indeed comment on its contents - in both posts. Nice censorship.

Or just post the article again using fair use extracts and actually including your own comments. It's not exactly censorship if you're allowed to post it again :roll:
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:41 pm

In today's news...

U.S. banking records show Hunter Biden’s American-based firm, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, received regular transfers into one of its accounts — usually more than $166,000 a month — from Burisma from spring 2014 through fall 2015, during a period when Vice President Biden was the main U.S. official dealing with Ukraine and its tense relations with Russia.

The general prosecutor’s official file for the Burisma probe — shared with me by senior Ukrainian officials — shows prosecutors identified Hunter Biden, business partner Devon Archer and their firm, Rosemont Seneca, as potential recipients of money.

Shokin told me in written answers to questions that, before he was fired as general prosecutor, he had made “specific plans” for the investigation that “included interrogations and other crime-investigation procedures into all members of the executive board, including Hunter Biden.”.....
Most of the general prosecutor’s investigative work on Burisma focused on three separate cases, and most stopped abruptly once Shokin was fired. The most prominent of the Burisma cases was transferred to a different Ukrainian agency, closely aligned with the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, known as the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), according to the case file and current General Prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko.

NABU closed that case, and a second case involving alleged improper money transfers in London was dropped when Ukrainian officials failed to file the necessary documents by the required deadline. The general prosecutor’s office successfully secured a multimillion-dollar judgment in a tax evasion case, Lutsenko said. He did not say who was the actual defendant in that case.....

But then, as Biden’s 2020 campaign ramped up over the past year, Lutsenko — the Ukrainian prosecutor that Biden once hailed as a “solid” replacement for Shokin — began looking into what happened with the Burisma case that had been shut down.

Lutsenko told me that, while reviewing the Burisma investigative files, he discovered “members of the Board obtained funds as well as another U.S.-based legal entity, Rosemont Seneca Partners LLC, for consulting services.”

Lutsenko said some of the evidence he knows about in the Burisma case may interest U.S. authorities and he’d like to present that information to new U.S. Attorney General William Barr, particularly the vice president’s intervention.

“Unfortunately, Mr. Biden had correlated and connected this aid with some of the HR (personnel) issues and changes in the prosecutor’s office,” Lutsenko said.
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house ... is-revived

COMMENT: Biden is toast. Both Joe AND Hunter are already under investigation.
Last edited by mham001 on Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:42 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
mham001 wrote:
I strongly object, the quoted portion was significantly less than "half the article" and there was indeed comment on its contents - in both posts. Nice censorship.

Or just post the article again using fair use extracts and actually including your own comments. It's not exactly censorship if you're allowed to post it again :roll:


They WERE fair use extracts, portions left out, large segments not even touched and my proclamation of Biden's chances now is indeed a comment.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3845
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:47 pm

Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:55 pm

910A wrote:
So you post that the investigation of Biden was revived back on April's Fool Day, 2019 from a John Solomon who was formerly employed as an executive and as editor-in-chief for the very far right (editorial ) The Washington Times which was founded by Unification movement leader Sun Myung Moon and still owned by one of his shell companies. The governments in that part of the world all are corrupt in one fashion or another.


If that is the guy asking the pertinent questions of the people involved, why does it matter that he once worked for a paper who was once owned by Moon? So what, every reporter for NYT works for a paper that has been repeatedly caught printing articles later found to be complete fiction. And so?

Are you saying he is blatantly lying about answers to questions he claims to have asked of people who can easily speak for themselves if wronged? Better than what we usually get..."unnamed sources."

What exactly is the litmus test for investigative reporting?
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:06 pm

afcjets wrote:
Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY

You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3845
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:10 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY

You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.


You didn't answer the question, it's a big part of the top news story today. I want to know what networks besides Fox are airing it.
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:26 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY

You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.


You didn't answer the question, it's a big part of the top news story today. I want to know what networks besides Fox are airing it.

What I would like to know is if Biden was asked about this during any of the recent Dem debates. Is Biden’s conflict of interest just so accepted by the media that they didn’t even ask him about it?

Mike Drop
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:28 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY

You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.

The video of Biden boasting about the extortion was from 2018 - June I think. So I’m not sure how any article in the NYT from 2015 has anything to do with this.

Mike Drop
 
afcjets
Posts: 3845
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:46 pm

I wonder if CNN would show a video of Trump bragging how he was going to withhold a billion dollars unless a prosecutor investigating Don Jr. or Eric wasn't fired and how the guy was fired in a matter of minutes and the funds were then immediately transferred.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24074
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:56 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY

You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.

The video of Biden boasting about the extortion was from 2018 - June I think. So I’m not sure how any article in the NYT from 2015 has anything to do with this.

Mike Drop


Maybe if the whistle blower complaint and companion transcripts from the occupant of the White House to the president of Ukraine are all released, maybe we can see. I suspect these are more damning to the administration than Biden.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24074
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:59 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY

You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.


You didn't answer the question, it's a big part of the top news story today. I want to know what networks besides Fox are airing it.


Fox is airing this through the lens of "look how corrupt Biden is" rather than CNN or the big three airing this through the lens of "years ago, it was reported this thing happened and nothing came of it so here we are showing nothing will come if it again".

Did anyone ever find Obama's Kenyan birth certificate? This is the exact same thing. There is no there there.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:00 am

afcjets wrote:
I wonder if CNN would show a video of Trump bragging how he was going to withhold a billion dollars unless a prosecutor investigating Don Jr. or Eric wasn't fired and how the guy was fired in a matter of minutes and the funds were then immediately transferred.


It would be wall to wall coverage.

I thought about taking everything biden said and transcripting it as if it had been trump talking about it. But it doesn't matter.

Literally have biden on tape bragging about it and nothing.

I think this is Trump out playing the left and they dont even know it. Big trap set and when its spring the media will have already been so invested in the story they'll have to cover it.

There is a reason biden and co are completely silent on the matter. They want this all to stay buried.

In one scandal we have actual recordings of biden bragging about blackmailing another country to fire a prosecutor. In the other we have an unnamed source who does not have primary source knowledge of a call the current president had.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24074
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:07 am

trpmb6 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I wonder if CNN would show a video of Trump bragging how he was going to withhold a billion dollars unless a prosecutor investigating Don Jr. or Eric wasn't fired and how the guy was fired in a matter of minutes and the funds were then immediately transferred.


It would be wall to wall coverage.

I thought about taking everything biden said and transcripting it as if it had been trump talking about it. But it doesn't matter.

Literally have biden on tape bragging about it and nothing.

I think this is Trump out playing the left and they dont even know it. Big trap set and when its spring the media will have already been so invested in the story they'll have to cover it.

There is a reason biden and co are completely silent on the matter. They want this all to stay buried.

In one scandal we have actual recordings of biden bragging about blackmailing another country to fire a prosecutor. In the other we have an unnamed source who does not have primary source knowledge of a call the current president had.


Which Biden was bragging and what was he bragging about?

I suspect the biggest reason the media is not discussing it is because they discussed it when it happened three years ago. It was a big nothingburger then and it is a big nothingburger with a side of why is this still a thing?

If it were such a horrible crime, why was it not investigated starting January 2017 after it had been reported by all sides of the media?
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:16 am

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY

You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.


You didn't answer the question, it's a big part of the top news story today. I want to know what networks besides Fox are airing it.

Who cares? Is Faux giving any context? That the company was under investigation before Biden joined? That the US became involved to support the Brits investigating the matter? That the fired investigator wasn't investigating Burisma at all and was in fact undermining the Brits? They mention any of that? Bet I can guess!

MikeDrop wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here is the video of Biden admitting threatening to withhold a billion dollars if the prosecutor investigating his son isn't fired. Does anyone know if any of the networks besides Fox are showing it now?

https://youtu.be/UXA--dj2-CY

You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.

The video of Biden boasting about the extortion was from 2018 - June I think. So I’m not sure how any article in the NYT from 2015 has anything to do with this.

Mike Drop

...because the conflict of interest issue has been known for years before Biden made the 2018 comment.

MikeDrop wrote:
What I would like to know is if Biden was asked about this during any of the recent Dem debates. Is Biden’s conflict of interest just so accepted by the media that they didn’t even ask him about it?

Mike Drop

Maybe you should just corral all your senile old goobers together like Trump, Giuliani, Mnuchin, etc., and get your collective story straight before you hit us with the faux outrage
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:21 am

trpmb6 wrote:
I think this is Trump out playing the left and they dont even know it. Big trap set and when its spring the media will have already been so invested in the story they'll have to cover it.

I am not surprised a bunch of old white guys making the rounds on the news losing their dentures like they lost their marbles appears "smart" to republicans. How anyone can watch GIuliani and not reach for the lithium is beyond me. We are talking about a party whose leader is so stupid he lied about a hurricane and then drew on a map with a sharpie to cover it up. This is weapons grade stupidity.

trpmb6 wrote:
In one scandal we have actual recordings of biden bragging about blackmailing another country to fire a prosecutor. In the other we have an unnamed source who does not have primary source knowledge of a call the current president had.

And yet Trump, Giuliani, and Mnuchin have all but spelled out the transcript in finger paint
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:26 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.


You didn't answer the question, it's a big part of the top news story today. I want to know what networks besides Fox are airing it.

Who cares? Is Faux giving any context? That the company was under investigation before Biden joined? That the US became involved to support the Brits investigating the matter? That the fired investigator wasn't investigating Burisma at all and was in fact undermining the Brits? They mention any of that? Bet I can guess!

MikeDrop wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
You mean this video that's all over the internet? :roll: The fake news NYT covered the fraught relationship between Hunter Biden and Ukraine in 2015, so welcome to now! By the way that's not at all what is said in the video.

The video of Biden boasting about the extortion was from 2018 - June I think. So I’m not sure how any article in the NYT from 2015 has anything to do with this.

Mike Drop

...because the conflict of interest issue has been known for years before Biden made the 2018 comment.

MikeDrop wrote:
What I would like to know is if Biden was asked about this during any of the recent Dem debates. Is Biden’s conflict of interest just so accepted by the media that they didn’t even ask him about it?

Mike Drop

Maybe you should just corral all your senile old goobers together like Trump, Giuliani, Mnuchin, etc., and get your collective story straight before you hit us with the faux outrage

It would be great if you could provide some links to evidence that backup your claims. In the meantime the MSM will continue to ignore the 800 kilo gorilla in the room that is the video of Biden boasting how he threatened to deny a billion dollars to The Ukraine if they didn’t fire the man who was investigating his son (links the the video and investigative reporting are provided multiple times above). It doesn’t matter either way. It’s pretty much guaranteed that Trump will beat ole “Creepy Stealing Joe” senseless with this scandal if Biden is able to stay in the race and become the Dems candidate. It will be fun to watch.

Mike Drop
 
User avatar
jdstJD
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:40 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:38 am

People are veering way off into a realm that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The republicans had the majority in the senate while Obama and Biden were in office and a large number in the House. If there was so much concern about Biden’s and his son’s dealings in the Ukraine congress could have launched an investigation at that time. They certainly had no problem making up other investigations. So now that trump has been caught all of a sudden there’s an outrage about Biden. In any event, the question before us now is whether or not it is acceptable, if true, for trump to use his discretionary authority to grant or withhold financial aid to a foreign government unless that government finds dirt that he can use to help him in the upcoming election. And don’t say yes it’s acceptable because he was doing it for the purpose of addressing corruption because there is plenty of corruption for the administration to legitimately address through diplomatic channels that doesn’t involve Joe Biden. It was trump’s incorporation of the Biden issue into negotiations with Ukraine that has created the legal problem for himself, not anything the Biden’s have done. Keep your eye on the ball people.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:11 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I think this is Trump out playing the left and they dont even know it. Big trap set and when its spring the media will have already been so invested in the story they'll have to cover it.

I am not surprised a bunch of old white guys making the rounds on the news losing their dentures like they lost their marbles appears "smart" to republicans. How anyone can watch GIuliani and not reach for the lithium is beyond me. We are talking about a party whose leader is so stupid he lied about a hurricane and then drew on a map with a sharpie to cover it up. This is weapons grade stupidity.

trpmb6 wrote:
In one scandal we have actual recordings of biden bragging about blackmailing another country to fire a prosecutor. In the other we have an unnamed source who does not have primary source knowledge of a call the current president had.

And yet Trump, Giuliani, and Mnuchin have all but spelled out the transcript in finger paint


Wouldn't know anything about Rudy or Mnunchin doing media rounds. Sounds like you've been watching more fox news than I ever do.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:14 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
That the company was under investigation before Biden joined? That the US became involved to support the Brits investigating the matter? That the fired investigator wasn't investigating Burisma at all and was in fact undermining the Brits? They mention any of that? Bet I can guess!


I think you need to check your timeline. You claims have little truth.

The Serious Fraud Office (SFO) in London, which initiated the criminal proceedings against Zlochevsky in April of 2014. The UK investigation of Burisma began just before Biden and Archer officially joined the Burisma board of directors. Initially, when the SFO issued this release on April 28, 2014, there was no identification of Zlochevsky or Burisma. http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Archer joined Burismo on April 22, 2014. His business partner, Hunter Biden announced signing May 13 2014.

Britain courts closed criminal proceedings January 22, 2015 due to lack of cooperation from a variety of Ukraine prosecutors..

Viktor Shokin,was appointed prosecutor general in February 2015 and fired in March 2016.

So no, Shokin had no bearing on the British case. You entire missive is a misdirection.

The British inquiry can be read at depth here...it is rather damning., http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Did you know the US had the owner of Burisma under sanctions at one time too?
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16450
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:23 am

mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
That the company was under investigation before Biden joined? That the US became involved to support the Brits investigating the matter? That the fired investigator wasn't investigating Burisma at all and was in fact undermining the Brits? They mention any of that? Bet I can guess!


I think you need to check your timeline. You claims have little truth.

The Serious Fraud Office (SFO) in London, which initiated the criminal proceedings against Zlochevsky in April of 2014. The UK investigation of Burisma began just before Biden and Archer officially joined the Burisma board of directors. Initially, when the SFO issued this release on April 28, 2014, there was no identification of Zlochevsky or Burisma. http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Archer joined Burismo on April 22, 2014. His business partner, Hunter Biden announced signing May 13 2014.

Britain courts closed criminal proceedings January 22, 2015 due to lack of cooperation from a variety of Ukraine prosecutors..

Viktor Shokin,was appointed prosecutor general in February 2015 and fired in March 2016.

So no, Shokin had no bearing on the British case. You entire missive is a misdirection.

The British inquiry can be read at depth here...it is rather damning., http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Did you know the US had the owner of Burisma under sanctions at one time too?


Even that is only part of the story. A more broad overview from a conservative source, Tim Miller:

https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-t ... uivalency/
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:45 am

Aaron747 wrote:

Even that is only part of the story. A more broad overview from a conservative source, Tim Miller:

https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-t ... uivalency/


Sorry but that is nothing but an opinion piece with little to no factual information. You are grasping.. I don't have time for it all but I quickly found his first misdirection.

"This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."

He provides the link to the statement dated September 24, 2015https://www.facebook.com/usdos.ukraine/posts/10153248488506936.

We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases.

For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.

Even as we support the work of the new Anti-Corruption Commission, and the recruitment of new prosecutors, we have urged Prosecutor General Shokin to empower Deputy Prosecutors Sakvarelidze and Kasko to implement reforms and bring to justice those who have violated the law, regardless of rank or status. We are prepared to partner with reformers within the PGO in the fight for anticorruption.


Problem is, Shilenko was not prosecutor at the time of the British inquiry and nobody has provided evidence so far that he was responsible for writing the letters the Ambassador mentions. So your supposed conservative writer is confused.
Last edited by mham001 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:52 am, edited 4 times in total.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24074
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:45 am

mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
That the company was under investigation before Biden joined? That the US became involved to support the Brits investigating the matter? That the fired investigator wasn't investigating Burisma at all and was in fact undermining the Brits? They mention any of that? Bet I can guess!


I think you need to check your timeline. You claims have little truth.

The Serious Fraud Office (SFO) in London, which initiated the criminal proceedings against Zlochevsky in April of 2014. The UK investigation of Burisma began just before Biden and Archer officially joined the Burisma board of directors. Initially, when the SFO issued this release on April 28, 2014, there was no identification of Zlochevsky or Burisma. http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Archer joined Burismo on April 22, 2014. His business partner, Hunter Biden announced signing May 13 2014.

Britain courts closed criminal proceedings January 22, 2015 due to lack of cooperation from a variety of Ukraine prosecutors..

Viktor Shokin,was appointed prosecutor general in February 2015 and fired in March 2016.

So no, Shokin had no bearing on the British case. You entire missive is a misdirection.

The British inquiry can be read at depth here...it is rather damning., http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Did you know the US had the owner of Burisma under sanctions at one time too?


The British probe began BEFORE Hunter joined Burisma. So, again, there is no there there. Ukrainian prosecutors did not cooperate, not Hunter Biden. Again, nothing. Each and every account that has been posted point to Ukraine being corrupt. Shokin and Zlochevsky and Ukrainian prosecutors. Nothing about Joe or Hunter Biden. Just more nothing on top of nothing on top of nothing.
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:50 am

seb146 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
That the company was under investigation before Biden joined? That the US became involved to support the Brits investigating the matter? That the fired investigator wasn't investigating Burisma at all and was in fact undermining the Brits? They mention any of that? Bet I can guess!


I think you need to check your timeline. You claims have little truth.

The Serious Fraud Office (SFO) in London, which initiated the criminal proceedings against Zlochevsky in April of 2014. The UK investigation of Burisma began just before Biden and Archer officially joined the Burisma board of directors. Initially, when the SFO issued this release on April 28, 2014, there was no identification of Zlochevsky or Burisma. http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Archer joined Burismo on April 22, 2014. His business partner, Hunter Biden announced signing May 13 2014.

Britain courts closed criminal proceedings January 22, 2015 due to lack of cooperation from a variety of Ukraine prosecutors..

Viktor Shokin,was appointed prosecutor general in February 2015 and fired in March 2016.

So no, Shokin had no bearing on the British case. You entire missive is a misdirection.

The British inquiry can be read at depth here...it is rather damning., http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Did you know the US had the owner of Burisma under sanctions at one time too?


The British probe began BEFORE Hunter joined Burisma. So, again, there is no there there. Ukrainian prosecutors did not cooperate, not Hunter Biden. Again, nothing.

A source for your claim would be great. But what you are saying sounds like a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch hired Hunter Biden because he could help quash the ongoing investigation and his dad, Joe obliged. $3 million sounds cheap to have the Vice President of the United States getting you off the hook.

Mike Drop
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:57 am

MikeDrop wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The British probe began BEFORE Hunter joined Burisma. So, again, there is no there there. Ukrainian prosecutors did not cooperate, not Hunter Biden. Again, nothing.

A source for your claim would be great. But what you are saying sounds like a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch hired Hunter Biden because he could help quash the ongoing investigation and his dad, Joe obliged. $3 million sounds cheap to have the Vice President of the United States getting you off the hook.

Mike Drop


I addressed that in the very post he quoted. He's right, they did before Biden (but not Archer), by a few days - without naming names. Let's try again.

The Serious Fraud Office (SFO) in London, which initiated the criminal proceedings against Zlochevsky in April of 2014. The UK investigation of Burisma began just before Biden and Archer officially joined the Burisma board of directors. Initially, when the SFO issued this release on April 28, 2014, there was no identification of Zlochevsky or Burisma.
http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Seriously, this is a long read but very detailed. I haven't even gotten to Part 2.
Last edited by mham001 on Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14145
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:59 am

mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Even that is only part of the story. A more broad overview from a conservative source, Tim Miller:

https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-t ... uivalency/


I don't have time for it all but I quickly found his first misdirection.
"This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."

He provides the link to the statement dated September 24, 2015https://www.facebook.com/usdos.ukraine/posts/10153248488506936.

We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases.

For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.

Even as we support the work of the new Anti-Corruption Commission, and the recruitment of new prosecutors, we have urged Prosecutor General Shokin to empower Deputy Prosecutors Sakvarelidze and Kasko to implement reforms and bring to justice those who have violated the law, regardless of rank or status. We are prepared to partner with reformers within the PGO in the fight for anticorruption.


Problem is, Shilenko was not prosecutor at the time of the British inquiry and nobody has provided evidence so far that he was responsible for writing the letters the Ambassador mentions. So your supposed conservative writer is confused.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... iden-claim

From May 7, 2019 when Giuliani was first pushing this non story on Biden.

There’s little question that the Bidens’ paths in Ukraine held the potential for conflict, and in a tweet last week, Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani said the U.S. should investigate the matter. But what has received less attention is that at the time Biden made his ultimatum, the probe into the company -- Burisma Holdings, owned by Mykola Zlochevsky -- had been long dormant, according to the former official, Vitaliy Kasko

According to public reports and internal documents from the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office, U.S. officials had expressed concern for more than a year about Ukrainian prosecutors’ failure to assist an international investigation of Zlochevsky.



Why would Biden push for the removal of an official that was hindering an investigation into a company that was giving Hunter money?
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:06 am

casinterest wrote:

Why would Biden push for the removal of an official that was hindering an investigation into a company that was giving Hunter money?


Exactly, why would he? Because this story about Shokin "hindering the investigation" has no merit - at least none has been shown to us. The British killed their investigation before Shenko became Head Prosecutor... Recent quotes directly from Shenko himself, not some third party, indicate he had concrete plans to continue the Ukrainian investigation. .
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14145
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:13 am

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Why would Biden push for the removal of an official that was hindering an investigation into a company that was giving Hunter money?


Exactly, why would he? Because this story about Shokin "hindering the investigation" has no merit - at least none has been shown to us. The British killed their investigation before Shenko became Head Prosecutor... Recent quotes directly from Shenko himself, not some third party, indicate he had concrete plans to continue the Ukrainian investigation. .



The British were forced to unfreeze their aid and put a hold on their investigation due to court orders and the lack of evidence since the corrupt Shokin was not producing the needed documents. Hence the push to get rid of the corrupt prosecutor?

The point is, who cares about Biden and this FAKE NEWS that Trump and his lackeys are pushing?
Why did the President of the United States circumvent the US Constitution to take out a political vendetta against a rival politician using a foreign power?

All that American first stuff, and Trump goes to Ukraine and holds aid over their head for an investigation his lackeys were already pushing as a conspiracy theory that no one was buying?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 24074
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:38 am

mham001 wrote:
MikeDrop wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The British probe began BEFORE Hunter joined Burisma. So, again, there is no there there. Ukrainian prosecutors did not cooperate, not Hunter Biden. Again, nothing.

A source for your claim would be great. But what you are saying sounds like a corrupt Ukrainian oligarch hired Hunter Biden because he could help quash the ongoing investigation and his dad, Joe obliged. $3 million sounds cheap to have the Vice President of the United States getting you off the hook.

Mike Drop


I addressed that in the very post he quoted. He's right, they did before Biden (but not Archer), by a few days - without naming names. Let's try again.

The Serious Fraud Office (SFO) in London, which initiated the criminal proceedings against Zlochevsky in April of 2014. The UK investigation of Burisma began just before Biden and Archer officially joined the Burisma board of directors. Initially, when the SFO issued this release on April 28, 2014, there was no identification of Zlochevsky or Burisma.
http://johnhelmer.net/the-hunt-for-buri ... x-escapes/

Seriously, this is a long read but very detailed. I haven't even gotten to Part 2.


There was no identification of any Ukrainians because, as has been pointed out, the corrupt Ukrainian prosecutors were not cooperating. Other than that, no signs that Hunter Biden did anything wrong. Republicans have had three years to do something about this. But, as usual, they don't care until their dear leader is shown how corrupt he is.

This is still a huge nothing burger.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14145
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:24 am

And the trail against Trump gets more bread crumbs. Maybe a whole bakery.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... raine-days
"
President Trump instructed acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney to place a hold on nearly $400 million in military aid to Ukraine shortly before a phone call in which he allegedly tried to persuade the nation’s president to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, the Washington Post reported Monday."
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16450
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 3:31 am

mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Even that is only part of the story. A more broad overview from a conservative source, Tim Miller:

https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-t ... uivalency/


Sorry but that is nothing but an opinion piece with little to no factual information. You are grasping.. I don't have time for it all but I quickly found his first misdirection.

"This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."

He provides the link to the statement dated September 24, 2015https://www.facebook.com/usdos.ukraine/posts/10153248488506936.

We have learned that there have been times that the PGO not only did not support investigations into corruption, but rather undermined prosecutors working on legitimate corruption cases.

For example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO’s office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure.

Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky’s attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

The misconduct by the PGO officials who wrote those letters should be investigated, and those responsible for subverting the case by authorizing those letters should – at a minimum – be summarily terminated.

Even as we support the work of the new Anti-Corruption Commission, and the recruitment of new prosecutors, we have urged Prosecutor General Shokin to empower Deputy Prosecutors Sakvarelidze and Kasko to implement reforms and bring to justice those who have violated the law, regardless of rank or status. We are prepared to partner with reformers within the PGO in the fight for anticorruption.


Problem is, Shilenko was not prosecutor at the time of the British inquiry and nobody has provided evidence so far that he was responsible for writing the letters the Ambassador mentions. So your supposed conservative writer is confused.


He is not confused - there are more than 10 links to other citations in the piece - the underlined parts. I clicked on them all, did you? His paraphrasing tracks the deeper information linked.

And he is not a ‘supposed’ conservative - he worked on the Bush and McCain campaigns and co-founded the ‘America Rising’ superPAC. Writing at a mostly-never Trump publication only solidifies conservative credentials these days.
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:11 am

Hmmmm..wouldn't it have been easier for the Criminal-in-Chief if he had forgone Ukraine and just ask Vladimir (in one of their private meetings) 'hey, need a little help again, y'know, like last time'...

Instead of all this extortion nonsense...what the hell, path of least resistance is usually the most optimal.

BN747
 
2122M
Posts: 1348
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:48 pm

My guess is that Trump knows this is all nonsense, but he also know that facts behind the case don't matter. He effectively shouted "Hilary" and "Benghazi" enough times to convince just enough people that Hilary might have some culpability there, so now he's going to shout 'Biden" and "Burisma" over and over again to do the same thing. Reasonable people everywhere will look into the story enough and realize that the US was just doing exactly the same thing that the rest of our Western Allies (remember them?) were doing in pressuring a corrupt prosecutor to step down. But there will be a few people that will get sucked into the echo chamber being broadcast by folks just like our own Anet right-wing trolls and begin to believe there is something fishy going on when in fact there is not.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:00 pm

casinterest wrote:
And the trail against Trump gets more bread crumbs. Maybe a whole bakery.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... raine-days
"
President Trump instructed acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney to place a hold on nearly $400 million in military aid to Ukraine shortly before a phone call in which he allegedly tried to persuade the nation’s president to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, the Washington Post reported Monday."


The freeze on the 400 million dollars in aid to Ukraine was in conjunction with freezing aid to other foreign countries. So it's a moot point. Of course the Post conveniently leaves that out. They use the word "shortly" but the freeze came a couple weeks before the call.


Ironically, nobody was up in arms about withholding military aid to Ukraine (except John Bolton apparently) until today. Because now it appears to be politically useful.

Also ironically, it appears the funding was withheld among concerns of corruption. Which is exactly the same strategy the Obama administration took with Ukraine when it was also withholding funding from Ukraine.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3018
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:04 pm

The unfortunate reality is that releasing transcripts is difficult. It would set a dangerous precedent. Should we go and demand that all the transcripts between Obama and foreign leaders be released? No. Those are privileged communications by the executive branch and I'm quite certain the President can simply claim Presidential privilege and block the release. What would future foreign leaders think when having a communication with the president? "they claim this is a confidential call but they released those transcripts one time after the fact. I better not be candid on this subject."
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:09 pm

2122M wrote:
My guess is that Trump knows this is all nonsense, but he also know that facts behind the case don't matter. He effectively shouted "Hilary" and "Benghazi" enough times to convince just enough people that Hilary might have some culpability there, so now he's going to shout 'Biden" and "Burisma" over and over again to do the same thing. Reasonable people everywhere will look into the story enough and realize that the US was just doing exactly the same thing that the rest of our Western Allies (remember them?) were doing in pressuring a corrupt prosecutor to step down. But there will be a few people that will get sucked into the echo chamber being broadcast by folks just like our own Anet right-wing trolls and begin to believe there is something fishy going on when in fact there is not.


Former Republican Congressman turned morning show host skewers Trump and even shows Fox News clips that this President engagedin outright corruption. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8lfIrbTm8kY

I think it’s also important to remember the huge outflow of people quitting this administration right after these calls took place, like Dan Coats, his top deputy, John Huntsman, and several others. All lifelong Republicans.
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:24 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
2122M wrote:
My guess is that Trump knows this is all nonsense, but he also know that facts behind the case don't matter. He effectively shouted "Hilary" and "Benghazi" enough times to convince just enough people that Hilary might have some culpability there, so now he's going to shout 'Biden" and "Burisma" over and over again to do the same thing. Reasonable people everywhere will look into the story enough and realize that the US was just doing exactly the same thing that the rest of our Western Allies (remember them?) were doing in pressuring a corrupt prosecutor to step down. But there will be a few people that will get sucked into the echo chamber being broadcast by folks just like our own Anet right-wing trolls and begin to believe there is something fishy going on when in fact there is not.


Former Republican Congressman turned morning show host skewers Trump and even shows Fox News clips that this President engagedin outright corruption. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8lfIrbTm8kY

I think it’s also important to remember the huge outflow of people quitting this administration right after these calls took place, like Dan Coats, his top deputy, John Huntsman, and several others. All lifelong Republicans.

Do you have any sources that these departures were related or even in the same time frame? Or is this just speculation on your part. Also, using an MSNBC anti-Trump zealot and his anti-Trump wife as a source of anything will convince no one of anything. Joe Scarborough and his troll wife have even less credibility than Sean Hannity. And Hannity has zero credibility.

Mike Drop
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 9

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Number6, Virtual737 and 28 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos