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sonicruiser
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:32 pm

I didn't see anything in that transcript that was out of the ordinary. Slow news day.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:41 pm

I think Barr is in deep trouble. Trump was to have him call the Ukrainian President.
Barr claims he didn't contact the Ukranians,
The DOJ claimed the whistle blower had no paucity for elections issues.


So either Barr is lying about contacting the Ukranians or he disobeyed Trump.

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/25/76416434 ... no-charges
Justice Department officials say Barr, the attorney general, learned about the conversation several weeks after it took place but has not spoken about it with Trump and was never asked by Trump to contact anyone in Ukraine.
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trpmb6
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:03 pm

This is just like the release of the Mueller Report. Both sides are going to hold to their convictions and there is nothing here to move anyone any direction.

For those claiming that Trump is obstructing justice with this "redacted" transcript. Read ATCsundevil's post. This was always going to be just staffer notes about the meeting. There is no recording of the meeting. Unless perhaps the ukranians recorded it. But I doubt they did.

You guys want to see nefarious intent because of your personal bias. Read the transcript without bias. Nothing there.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:07 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
This is just like the release of the Mueller Report. Both sides are going to hold to their convictions and there is nothing here to move anyone any direction.

For those claiming that Trump is obstructing justice with this "redacted" transcript. Read ATCsundevil's post. This was always going to be just staffer notes about the meeting. There is no recording of the meeting. Unless perhaps the ukranians recorded it. But I doubt they did.

You guys want to see nefarious intent because of your personal bias. Read the transcript without bias. Nothing there.


The Mueller report was the END of an investigation, which found up to 10 items of Obstruction of Justice
This COPIED. TRANSCRIPT , and ABRIDGED document is just this BEGINNING.

How many GOP candidates in swing districts want to be associated with this cluster?
Giuliani is going down in this one at the very least.
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:07 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
This is just like the release of the Mueller Report. Both sides are going to hold to their convictions and there is nothing here to move anyone any direction.

For those claiming that Trump is obstructing justice with this "redacted" transcript. Read ATCsundevil's post. This was always going to be just staffer notes about the meeting. There is no recording of the meeting. Unless perhaps the ukranians recorded it. But I doubt they did.

You guys want to see nefarious intent because of your personal bias. Read the transcript without bias. Nothing there.


Does a personal attorney have a security clearance? Do they have official duties representing the United States or its citizens? As far as I know a personal attorney is a private citizen - so what the hell is one being offered on dispatch to a foreign leader for, and in the suggested capacity to assist with an investigation? Massive cognitive dissonance happening with anyone who sees this as a non-story.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:08 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
This is just like the release of the Mueller Report. Both sides are going to hold to their convictions and there is nothing here to move anyone any direction.

For those claiming that Trump is obstructing justice with this "redacted" transcript. Read ATCsundevil's post. This was always going to be just staffer notes about the meeting. There is no recording of the meeting. Unless perhaps the ukranians recorded it. But I doubt they did.

You guys want to see nefarious intent because of your personal bias. Read the transcript without bias. Nothing there.


Does a personal attorney have a security clearance? Do they have official duties representing the United States or its citizens? As far as I know a personal attorney is a private citizen - so what the hell is one being offered on dispatch to a foreign leader for, and in the suggested capacity to assist with an investigation? Massive cognitive dissonance happening with anyone who sees this as a non-story.


Stockholm syndrome is more like it. They put all their eggs in this GOP hostile takeover. , and they are beholden to the leader :) .
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mham001
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:17 pm

Mostly, nothing. No quid pro quo, no "pressuring" (7 times - please.), Zelensky brings up the corruption first and backs up Trump's claims about European neglect.

The thing with Barr and Giuliani might be a problem, that Barr says he wasn't informed indicates Trump (or his minions) didn't follow up with DOJ. Did Giuliani follow up to that phone call? If so, not good. He mentions Guiliani too many times.

BUT this whole "Joe and his family shenanigans can't be discussed or investigated because he is a Trump rival/opponent/whatever' is nonsense. He and his family do not become immune because he is running for president. How convenient that is.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:24 pm

mham001 wrote:
Mostly, nothing. No quid pro quo, no "pressuring" (7 times - please.), Zelensky brings up the corruption first and backs up Trump's claims about European neglect.

The thing with Barr and Giuliani might be a problem, that Barr says he wasn't informed indicates Trump (or his minions) didn't follow up with DOJ. Did Giuliani follow up to that phone call? If so, not good. He mentions Guiliani too many times.

BUT this whole "Joe and his family shenanigans can't be discussed or investigated because he is a Trump rival/opponent/whatever' is nonsense. He and his family do not become immune because he is running for president. How convenient that is.


Biden was investigated by the Ukrainians, and cleared. The Ukrainians could have reopened it if they felt their was corruption there. Why did Trump need a Favor? That is in and of itself a quid pro quo request.

As for the start, remember this is an abridged copy of the call. Not a verbatim recollection. You need to understand that much was culled.

There are indications that the whistleblower report is over multiple different infractions, and not just one according to recent reports.
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:39 pm

It gets even better.
The WH sent out the GOP talking points to the Democrats.

Hilarious.

And THEN RECALLED the EMAIL,

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/sta ... 4768185344

Pelosi's office confirmed they received it.


Those talking points are interesting as they say the President didn't bring up Rudy first, so I am guessing we don't have the correct copy of the transcript?
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mham001
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:50 pm

casinterest wrote:

Biden was investigated by the Ukrainians, and cleared. The Ukrainians could have reopened it if they felt their was corruption there.


According the current prosecutor, they did reopen it. Unless that reporter is blatently lying. The rest of the media is ignoring that,

casinterest wrote:


As for the start, remember this is an abridged copy of the call. Not a verbatim recollection. You need to understand that much was culled. .


That's going to need some proof. It means they cut out all the stammering, the lost words, etc. but the two "staffers" taking notes are said to be CIA. It isn't clear either that Zelensky was speaking English, I look on Youtube and he interviews through a translator, although he does speak some English casually. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30ALpcuyaYM

Notably also, he was elected on a strong anti-corruption message, that is the entire reason he is there.

This was amusing, he makes some international fun...https://www.indy100.com/article/ukraine ... ed-9115621
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:00 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Another nothing burger. What a shock.


Oh yeah, such a nothing burger that the DNI resigned like 10 days later. Peachy! And I'm dumbfounded you think injecting a personal attorney into foreign relations is appropriate conduct for the office. Again, might wanna retake civics.


Within 72 hours, actually. As well as the DNI deputy.
Last edited by SanDiegoLover on Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:00 pm

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Biden was investigated by the Ukrainians, and cleared. The Ukrainians could have reopened it if they felt their was corruption there.


According the current prosecutor, they did reopen it. Unless that reporter is blatently lying. The rest of the media is ignoring that,

casinterest wrote:


As for the start, remember this is an abridged copy of the call. Not a verbatim recollection. You need to understand that much was culled. .


That's going to need some proof. It means they cut out all the stammering, the lost words, etc. but the two "staffers" taking notes are said to be CIA. It isn't clear either that Zelensky was speaking English, I look on Youtube and he interviews through a translator, although he does speak some English casually. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30ALpcuyaYM

Notably also, he was elected on a strong anti-corruption message, that is the entire reason he is there.

This was amusing, he makes some international fun...https://www.indy100.com/article/ukraine ... ed-9115621



Then why is the president bringing up Barr and Giuliani for an internal issue to Ukraine? So if Zelensky wasn't speaking English, then we have interpreters to interview as well.
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afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:00 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Benign? How in the world would any of this be germaine to US-Ukraine relations:

I would like you to find out what happened with
this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess
you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say
Ukraine has it. There- are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you're surrounding yourself with some
of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General
call you or your people and I would like you to get to the
bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended
with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an
incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with
Ukraine.


And then the multiple references to Giuliani - WTF is a personal attorney doing getting involved in conversations with a foreign leader...this is ridiculously unprofessional crap.
d.


The trap that Trump set and Democrats are just now finding out comes from exactly what you quoted above, especially in reference to Crowdstrike (ask Hillary). This has nothing to do with a DNC primary front-runner, it has everything to do with a former VP who was part of an administrator that spied on a political candidate for political gain (sound familiar?). Since this was also a personal attack on Trump since it started when he was a private citizen, his personal attorney is also involved. Barr and Mueller were mentioned because this involves the counter investigation, which was launched before Biden even announced he was running for President.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:04 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Benign? How in the world would any of this be germaine to US-Ukraine relations:

I would like you to find out what happened with
this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike ... I guess
you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say
Ukraine has it. There- are a lot. of things that went on, the whole situation .. I think you're surrounding yourself with some
of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General
call you or your people and I would like you to get to the
bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended
with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an
incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with
Ukraine.


And then the multiple references to Giuliani - WTF is a personal attorney doing getting involved in conversations with a foreign leader...this is ridiculously unprofessional crap.
d.


The trap that Trump set and Democrats are just now finding out comes from exactly what you quoted above, especially in reference to Crowdstrike (ask Hillary). This has nothing to do with a DNC primary front-runner, it has everything to do with a former VP who was part of an administrator that spied on a political candidate for political gain (sound familiar?). Since this was also a personal attack on Trump since it started when he was a private citizen, his personal attorney is also involved. Barr and Mueller were mentioned because this involves the counter investigation, which was launched before Biden even announced he was running for President.


Crowdstrike was the company that investigated the HACKING of the DNC servers and implicated Russia. This reference may be to that, or to the ability to extract political revenge on it's owner.
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mham001
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:06 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
This is just like the release of the Mueller Report. Both sides are going to hold to their convictions and there is nothing here to move anyone any direction.

For those claiming that Trump is obstructing justice with this "redacted" transcript. Read ATCsundevil's post. This was always going to be just staffer notes about the meeting. There is no recording of the meeting. Unless perhaps the ukranians recorded it. But I doubt they did.

You guys want to see nefarious intent because of your personal bias. Read the transcript without bias. Nothing there.


Does a personal attorney have a security clearance? Do they have official duties representing the United States or its citizens? As far as I know a personal attorney is a private citizen - so what the hell is one being offered on dispatch to a foreign leader for, and in the suggested capacity to assist with an investigation? Massive cognitive dissonance happening with anyone who sees this as a non-story.


This is an interesting question because at what point is the President allowed to get involved in his own campaign? And if that campaign, (as they all do) runs investigations into the background of their opponents? Is the President disallowed from doing so?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:16 pm

Here is a great readout for those that can't identify the quid pro quo

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... y-readout/

"TRUMP: That’s very nice. You know, we do a lot for Ukraine. Way more than those yakky Europeans.

ZELENSKY: Yes indeed. I especially want to thank you for your support in the area of defense. We are ready to buy more weapons from you.

TRUMP: I would like you to do us a favor though. Please look into the DNC server hack. Our attorney general will be calling you about that."

ZELENSKY: Sure, sure, anything for you. I’m appointing a new ambassador so we can continue our strategic partnership.

TRUMP: That’s great. I’d also like you to investigate Joe Biden’s son. Rudy Giuliani and our attorney general will be calling you about that.
TRUMP: Great. I’ll have Giuliani and Barr call you. Your economy is going to get better and better, I predict.

ZELENSKY: The last time I was in New York I stayed at the Trump Tower. We’ll be very serious about that investigation of Biden’s son.[/b]

Where ever you go, there you are.
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:23 pm

casinterest wrote:
Crowdstrike was the company that investigated the HACKING of the DNC servers and implicated Russia. This reference may be to that, or to the ability to extract political revenge on it's owner.


The server that contained emails the former DNC chairwoman refused to hand over to investigators.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:26 pm

afcjets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Crowdstrike was the company that investigated the HACKING of the DNC servers and implicated Russia. This reference may be to that, or to the ability to extract political revenge on it's owner.


The server that contained emails the former DNC chairwoman refused to hand over to investigators.

What the personal ones? The DNC handed over all they were required too. Kind of like Trump with this transcript.
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mham001
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:28 pm

casinterest wrote:
Here is a great readout for those that can't identify the quid pro quo

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... y-readout/

"TRUMP: That’s very nice. You know, we do a lot for Ukraine. Way more than those yakky Europeans.

ZELENSKY: Yes indeed. I especially want to thank you for your support in the area of defense. We are ready to buy more weapons from you.

TRUMP: I would like you to do us a favor though. Please look into the DNC server hack. Our attorney general will be calling you about that."

ZELENSKY: Sure, sure, anything for you. I’m appointing a new ambassador so we can continue our strategic partnership.

TRUMP: That’s great. I’d also like you to investigate Joe Biden’s son. Rudy Giuliani and our attorney general will be calling you about that.
TRUMP: Great. I’ll have Giuliani and Barr call you. Your economy is going to get better and better, I predict.

ZELENSKY: The last time I was in New York I stayed at the Trump Tower. We’ll be very serious about that investigation of Biden’s son.[/b]



Why are you posting a FAKE transcription? Are you and yours afraid a reasonable person cannot read the document directly, IN CONTEXT, and make their own conclusions?
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:30 pm

casinterest wrote:
afcjets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Crowdstrike was the company that investigated the HACKING of the DNC servers and implicated Russia. This reference may be to that, or to the ability to extract political revenge on it's owner.


The server that contained emails the former DNC chairwoman refused to hand over to investigators.

What the personal ones? The DNC handed over all they were required too. Kind of like Trump with this transcript.


Yes, the ones about Chelsea's wedding, a very private event.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:46 pm

mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
This is just like the release of the Mueller Report. Both sides are going to hold to their convictions and there is nothing here to move anyone any direction.

For those claiming that Trump is obstructing justice with this "redacted" transcript. Read ATCsundevil's post. This was always going to be just staffer notes about the meeting. There is no recording of the meeting. Unless perhaps the ukranians recorded it. But I doubt they did.

You guys want to see nefarious intent because of your personal bias. Read the transcript without bias. Nothing there.


Does a personal attorney have a security clearance? Do they have official duties representing the United States or its citizens? As far as I know a personal attorney is a private citizen - so what the hell is one being offered on dispatch to a foreign leader for, and in the suggested capacity to assist with an investigation? Massive cognitive dissonance happening with anyone who sees this as a non-story.


This is an interesting question because at what point is the President allowed to get involved in his own campaign? And if that campaign, (as they all do) runs investigations into the background of their opponents? Is the President disallowed from doing so?


Yes, POTUS can be involved in their own campaign, even if that means directing opposition research. The FEC chair explains best what CAN’T happen though:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EllenLWeintr ... frame.html

52 USC 30121

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121

(a) Prohibition - It shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:51 pm

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Here is a great readout for those that can't identify the quid pro quo

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... y-readout/

"TRUMP: That’s very nice. You know, we do a lot for Ukraine. Way more than those yakky Europeans.

ZELENSKY: Yes indeed. I especially want to thank you for your support in the area of defense. We are ready to buy more weapons from you.

TRUMP: I would like you to do us a favor though. Please look into the DNC server hack. Our attorney general will be calling you about that."

ZELENSKY: Sure, sure, anything for you. I’m appointing a new ambassador so we can continue our strategic partnership.

TRUMP: That’s great. I’d also like you to investigate Joe Biden’s son. Rudy Giuliani and our attorney general will be calling you about that.
TRUMP: Great. I’ll have Giuliani and Barr call you. Your economy is going to get better and better, I predict.

ZELENSKY: The last time I was in New York I stayed at the Trump Tower. We’ll be very serious about that investigation of Biden’s son.[/b]



Why are you posting a FAKE transcription? Are you and yours afraid a reasonable person cannot read the document directly, IN CONTEXT, and make their own conclusions?


It's not FAKE. It is abridged so that people with low reading skills can understand what happened.
Please post from the original what you think is a discrepancy.
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:54 pm

Wasn't the transcript posted? The part that was released by Trump anyway.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u ... 9.2019.pdf

It is a brilliant read, just masterful how Trump is handled by other leaders. President Zelenskyy played it well, that is how to handle a narcissist.
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:57 pm

mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
This is just like the release of the Mueller Report. Both sides are going to hold to their convictions and there is nothing here to move anyone any direction.

For those claiming that Trump is obstructing justice with this "redacted" transcript. Read ATCsundevil's post. This was always going to be just staffer notes about the meeting. There is no recording of the meeting. Unless perhaps the ukranians recorded it. But I doubt they did.

You guys want to see nefarious intent because of your personal bias. Read the transcript without bias. Nothing there.


Does a personal attorney have a security clearance? Do they have official duties representing the United States or its citizens? As far as I know a personal attorney is a private citizen - so what the hell is one being offered on dispatch to a foreign leader for, and in the suggested capacity to assist with an investigation? Massive cognitive dissonance happening with anyone who sees this as a non-story.


This is an interesting question because at what point is the President allowed to get involved in his own campaign? And if that campaign, (as they all do) runs investigations into the background of their opponents? Is the President disallowed from doing so?


If a campaign does it's own investigating using domestic sources, that is shady but generally fine. There are exceptions, IIRC. However, if they use foreign governments to dig up dirt on opponents, that is illegal. And, for independent parties to come to a campaign and say "I have this dirt on your opponent" is also illegal. We saw what should be done in 2000 and, I think, in 2004. The Gore and Bush campaigns did not receive that information but, rather, went directly to the FBI and filed a report. They didn't say "I would have to see what is in the material to decide to use it or not" which is illegal.
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mham001
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:00 pm

casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Here is a great readout for those that can't identify the quid pro quo


Why are you posting a FAKE transcription? Are you and yours afraid a reasonable person cannot read the document directly, IN CONTEXT, and make their own conclusions?


It's not FAKE. It is abridged so that people with low reading skills can understand what happened.
Please post from the original what you think is a discrepancy.


BS. It is FAKE.

Pasting two sentences together and eliminating the (significant) context surrounding each is FAKE - for the benefit of those with low-intelligence who need to reinforce their conceived notions.
 
mham001
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:03 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Yes, POTUS can be involved in their own campaign, even if that means directing opposition research. The FEC chair explains best what CAN’T happen though:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EllenLWeintr ... frame.html

52 USC 30121

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121

(a) Prohibition - It shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.


So information, or dirt, would be that "thing of value"?
Last edited by mham001 on Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:04 pm

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Biden was investigated by the Ukrainians, and cleared. The Ukrainians could have reopened it if they felt their was corruption there.


According the current prosecutor, they did reopen it. Unless that reporter is blatently lying. The rest of the media is ignoring that,


The reports I have seen is that Ukrainian prosecutors are THINKING about reopening SOME investigations.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukraine-l ... rm-sources

The president of Ukraine wants everyone to see how deep the corruption goes in his country. How the oligarchs in his country got around laws and the government.

From the article:

Nalyvaichenko said his country will be best served by pursuing an investigation related to Burisma’s alleged multi-million-dollar corruption deals, not because of Trump’s pressure but because Ukraine wants to know the truth about its own corruption, whether the founder of Burisma, Ukraine’s ex-minister of natural resources Mykola Zlochevsky from 2010 to 2012, had paid to quash the earlier investigations into the way he acquired gas licenses.

When did Hunter Biden join the board of Burisma?
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:06 pm

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:

Why are you posting a FAKE transcription? Are you and yours afraid a reasonable person cannot read the document directly, IN CONTEXT, and make their own conclusions?


It's not FAKE. It is abridged so that people with low reading skills can understand what happened.
Please post from the original what you think is a discrepancy.


BS. It is FAKE.

Pasting two sentences together and eliminating the (significant) context surrounding each is FAKE - for the benefit of those with low-intelligence who need to reinforce their conceived notions.


"I want you to do something for me..." is fake? Is not the beginning of a quid pro quo? Is not the least bit shady considering he goes on to talk about Joe Biden? Really?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:07 pm

mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Yes, POTUS can be involved in their own campaign, even if that means directing opposition research. The FEC chair explains best what CAN’T happen though:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EllenLWeintr ... frame.html

52 USC 30121

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/52/30121

(a) Prohibition - It shall be unlawful for—
(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—
(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or
(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.


So information, or dirt, would be that "thing of value"?


Yes, as it has intrinsic value to a campaign. That’s why both leading 2016 campaigns were arguably dirty. But the FEC chair’s Tweet I linked was in response to 45 telling ABC he would gladly take info from foreign entities.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mham001
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:08 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Wasn't the transcript posted? The part that was released by Trump anyway.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/u ... 9.2019.pdf

It is a brilliant read, just masterful how Trump is handled by other leaders. President Zelenskyy played it well, that is how to handle a narcissist.


Looked like basic social skills to me, combined with some a$$ kissing of his primary benefactor. You expect an adversarial position to the most powerful person who supported his election?

I did talk to Angela �erkel and I did meet.with her. I also met
and talked withMacron . and I told them that they are not doing
quite as much as they need to be doing·on the issues with the
sanctions. They are not enforcing the sanctions. They are not
working as much as
.
they should work for Ukraine� It turns out
that even though logically, the European Union should be our
biggest· partner but technically the United States is a much
bigger partner than.the European Union and- I'm very grateful to
you for that because the United States is doing quite a· lot for
Ukraine. Much more than the E"�ropean Union especially when we
are talking about sanctions against the Russia,n Federation.


Ouch. That laid to rest several myths floating around, from the Trump administration's Russia stance to Europe's contributions to Ukraine.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:20 pm

The brilliant three dimensional chess game Trump is playing continues:

The White House accidentally emailed its Ukraine talking points to Nancy Pelosi


https://theweek.com/speedreads/867641/w ... ncy-pelosi

...and then recalls the email :rotfl:
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/09/trump- ... -recalled/

The best people

afcjets wrote:
The trap that Trump set

Imagine believing Trump is smart enough to set a trap. Or spell trap. Sad!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:53 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
The trap that Trump set

Imagine believing Trump is smart enough to set a trap. Or spell trap. Sad!


Or manipulate bankruptcy laws, turning several hundred million dollars into several billion, building and marketing tons of luxury properties, creating a successful tv show for over ten seasons, winning the presidency of the world's greatest superpower, and according to you colluding with another superpower like Russia to pull off the greatest hoax in our nation's history, and get away with it despite a two year special counsel investigation.
Last edited by afcjets on Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:56 pm

mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:

Why are you posting a FAKE transcription? Are you and yours afraid a reasonable person cannot read the document directly, IN CONTEXT, and make their own conclusions?


It's not FAKE. It is abridged so that people with low reading skills can understand what happened.
Please post from the original what you think is a discrepancy.


BS. It is FAKE.

Pasting two sentences together and eliminating the (significant) context surrounding each is FAKE - for the benefit of those with low-intelligence who need to reinforce their conceived notions.


No, A synopsis is very equivalent in context.

Here is the real doc. You will see that it lines up with a quid pro quo. Especially around the Javelin missle.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-tr ... 019-09-25/

https://www.defensenews.com/global/euro ... n-weapons/

In the case of the Javelin sale to Ukraine, it has been a long time coming.

Since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2014, Kiev has called for lethal military aid to be supplied by the United States. However, the Obama administration, concerned that injecting such weapons into the already volatile situation in Ukraine could make the situation worse, instead settled on supplying training and support equipment.


Seems like the Javelin was a very quid pro quo item.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:14 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
The trap that Trump set

Imagine believing Trump is smart enough to set a trap. Or spell trap. Sad!


Or manipulate bankruptcy laws, turning several hundred million dollars into several billion, building and marketing tons of luxury properties, creating a successful tv show for over ten seasons, winning the presidency of the world's greatest superpower, and according to you colluding with another superpower like Russia to pull off the greatest hoax in our nation's history, and get away with it despite a two year special counsel investigation.

LOL you are in *deep*...fooling the gullible: the art of the deal.

Manipulate bankruptcy laws...that's a new one. You guys just make up lies to tell yourself.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:37 pm

Congress authorized a payment for military aid to Ukraine. The occupant of the White House withheld that money until Ukraine agreed to investigate Biden. And they were given extra money by him on top of the payment they were already authorized. A clear violation of the Constitution. I want the MAGA fan base to explain how that is legal and right and good.

https://time.com/5685881/ukraine-aid-tr ... tleblower/
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/23/politics ... index.html
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-repor ... ources-say
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:12 pm

seb146 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

It's not FAKE. It is abridged so that people with low reading skills can understand what happened.
Please post from the original what you think is a discrepancy.


BS. It is FAKE.

Pasting two sentences together and eliminating the (significant) context surrounding each is FAKE - for the benefit of those with low-intelligence who need to reinforce their conceived notions.


"I want you to do something for me..." is fake? Is not the beginning of a quid pro quo? Is not the least bit shady considering he goes on to talk about Joe Biden? Really?


Remember, this is the best case scenario being released by the White House. Notice how much can be missing via the various ellipsis / missing info.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-uk ... 48f4ae06b0
 
BN747
Posts: 6790
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:11 pm

Anyone see the sitdown between Ukraine prez Zelensky and America's Lying president this afternoon?

He had the temerity to lecture the Ukraine leader on corruption (while he's actively corrupting the American electoral process)
He was bitching about Hillary's emails.
He bitched about Obama
He goaded the Zelensky into agreeing 'that there was no pressure'..

...goodness gracious! Whose idea was it to let this shitshow air worldwide????

And I quote... 'Nancy Pelosi, she's no longer the Speaker of the House'...
need a MAGA supporter to translate that last one for me, Mr Drop? TTail? Anyone?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:51 pm

BN747 wrote:
Anyone see the sitdown between Ukraine prez Zelensky and America's Lying president this afternoon?

He had the temerity to lecture the Ukraine leader on corruption (while he's actively corrupting the American electoral process)
He was bitching about Hillary's emails.
He bitched about Obama
He goaded the Zelensky into agreeing 'that there was no pressure'..

...goodness gracious! Whose idea was it to let this shitshow air worldwide????

And I quote... 'Nancy Pelosi, she's no longer the Speaker of the House'...
need a MAGA supporter to translate that last one for me, Mr Drop? TTail? Anyone?

BN747


Well the quote was

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a35j ... ncy-pelosi
“Nancy Pelosi, as far as I’m concerned, she’s no longer the Speaker of the House”


So in Trump's Deranged mind. The Constitution doesn't exist. Makes sense based on the situation we are in.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:04 pm

Good read on how the Ukranians are seeing this. There was no formal request through the normal channels for an investigation into Biden.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ukraini ... d=65863043

t was clear that [President Donald] Trump will only have communications if they will discuss the Biden case," said Serhiy Leshchenko, an anti-corruption advocate and former member of Ukraine's Parliament, who now acts as an adviser to Zelenskiy. "This issue was raised many times. I know that Ukrainian officials understood."


"If there will be a request from the American side, we’ll look at it," Anton Gerashchenko, who was appointed Ukraine’s deputy interior minister on Wednesday, told ABC News. He said that as far as he was aware no formal request had ever been made.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:07 pm

casinterest wrote:
Good read on how the Ukranians are seeing this. There was no formal request through the normal channels for an investigation into Biden.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ukraini ... d=65863043

t was clear that [President Donald] Trump will only have communications if they will discuss the Biden case," said Serhiy Leshchenko, an anti-corruption advocate and former member of Ukraine's Parliament, who now acts as an adviser to Zelenskiy. "This issue was raised many times. I know that Ukrainian officials understood."


"If there will be a request from the American side, we’ll look at it," Anton Gerashchenko, who was appointed Ukraine’s deputy interior minister on Wednesday, told ABC News. He said that as far as he was aware no formal request had ever been made.

I mean...

Image
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BN747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:58 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Good read on how the Ukranians are seeing this.

Image


Okay, the guy is the Ukrainian Bill Maher...so as Ukraine's Comedian-in-Chief...was he up to his old tricks? Or genuinely 'concerned'...

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:31 am

BN747 wrote:
And I quote... 'Nancy Pelosi, she's no longer the Speaker of the House'...
need a MAGA supporter to translate that last one for me, Mr Drop? TTail? Anyone?

BN747


Trump could be virtue-signaling his supporters to "take care of Nancy".
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:40 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:

Imagine believing Trump is smart enough to set a trap. Or spell trap. Sad!


Or manipulate bankruptcy laws, turning several hundred million dollars into several billion, building and marketing tons of luxury properties, creating a successful tv show for over ten seasons, winning the presidency of the world's greatest superpower, and according to you colluding with another superpower like Russia to pull off the greatest hoax in our nation's history, and get away with it despite a two year special counsel investigation.

LOL you are in *deep*...fooling the gullible: the art of the deal.

Manipulate bankruptcy laws...that's a new one. You guys just make up lies to tell yourself.


Other than colluding with Russia and getting away with it, which one is not true? You admit yourself he used bk laws to his advantage (it's a matter of public record) when you compared him to Richard Branson (this was before he ran for President as a Republican of course) and complimented both of them for their brilliance.

MaverickM11 wrote:
The only time I hear about Trump is when he's whoring himself out or one of his companies is going into bankruptcy protection. He and Branson seem to have the same talent of running a brilliant PR machine that hides the forgettable businesses.
 
BN747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:54 am

Dieuwer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
And I quote... 'Nancy Pelosi, she's no longer the Speaker of the House'...
need a MAGA supporter to translate that last one for me, Mr Drop? TTail? Anyone?

BN747


Trump could be virtue-signaling his supporters to "take care of Nancy".


With him...you never 'know'...
Hmmmmm..no MAGA translators available huh? How long am I gonna be on 'hold'..they can't be that busy over MAGA Hq.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:47 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Image


That is one snazzy suit and tie combo, Zelensky looks like a suave supervillian.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:51 am

afcjets wrote:
Other than colluding with Russia and getting away with it, which one is not true? You admit yourself he used bk laws to his advantage (it's a matter of public record) when you compared him to Richard Branson (this was before he ran for President as a Republican of course) and complimented both of them for their brilliance.


‘Tons of luxury properties’ is not true - yes, he has licensed quite a few, but the T.O. owns only a handful of properties and his boasts of a global empire in the campaign were ridiculous. Ireland and Scotland are the extent of his international golf holdings, and T.O-owned hotels are nonexistent outside the US, which is just silly for any serious luxury brand. Hyatt, Hilton, Nikko, Intercontinental, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton et al maintain numerous luxury properties everywhere from Tahiti to the Caribbean to every major global capital. You cannot begin to equate reality to his playground boasts of having ‘some of the greatest hotels and properties’ in the world.

He is a good marketer and TV entertainer - amazing world-class developer? Hardly a blip compared to the others mentioned.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:13 pm

The whistle blower complaint has been released. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump- ... t-n1058971
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 93
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:24 pm

Another whistle blower complaint was filed last month revealing Trump was interfering into the IRS regarding audits to his tax returns. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... turns.html
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:27 pm

It's reassuring to know there are still legit patriots looking out for the country in DC.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:50 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
It's reassuring to know there are still legit patriots looking out for the country in DC.

It's sad that patriots have to submit whistleblower complaints against high ranking officials in the first place. Not lamenting that a process exists, but rather that it's being used.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
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