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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:01 pm

bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:

But again, using foreign powers to harm your opponent is not legal. He didn't ask a domestic bureau to do it. He blackmailed a foreign power.

Joe's political campaign is collateral damage. Joe blackmailed a foreign power by telling them if they didn't fire the prosecutor investigating his son within six hours they wouldn't get a billion dollars. It worked. All Trump did was give them the green light to continue investigating the corruption they were already doing on their own that Joe blackmailed them to stop. They were happy to do it.


Evidence please?

Oh, and also: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49871909

Apparently this is the first time the right is hearing about the USA threatening countries into doing what we want. Which is mind boggling on its own. At least we didn’t go straight for regime change in Ukraine
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:02 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aww poor Lindsey Graham. He is so lost without John McCain.

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status ... 3678687232

LINDSEY GRAHAM: The whistleblower complaint is just hearsay.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But the whistleblower complaint is matched by the call record in numerous ways.

GRAHAM: Well, you’ve got an opinion, I've got an opinion.'

And then there’s walnuts Giuliani:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=RY843m9SHOo
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:23 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aww poor Lindsey Graham. He is so lost without John McCain.

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status ... 3678687232

LINDSEY GRAHAM: The whistleblower complaint is just hearsay.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But the whistleblower complaint is matched by the call record in numerous ways.

GRAHAM: Well, you’ve got an opinion, I've got an opinion.'

And then there’s walnuts Giuliani:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=RY843m9SHOo



Yes indeed.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... me=newsOne

Who is paying for Rudy to Travel ?
Seems like he just opened another avenue for investigation.

“Nobody pays my expenses,” Giuliani said in an interview with Reuters on Friday. “What does it matter if I’m getting paid for it. Isn’t the real story whether he (Biden) sold out the vice presidency of the United States, not whether I got paid for it?”
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:52 am

bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:
But again, using foreign powers to harm your opponent is not legal. He didn't ask a domestic bureau to do it. He blackmailed a foreign power.

Joe's political campaign is collateral damage. Joe blackmailed a foreign power by telling them if they didn't fire the prosecutor investigating his son within six hours they wouldn't get a billion dollars. It worked. All Trump did was give them the green light to continue investigating the corruption they were already doing on their own that Joe blackmailed them to stop. They were happy to do it.


Evidence please?


See posts 67 and 137. It's all there.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:09 am

afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Joe's political campaign is collateral damage. Joe blackmailed a foreign power by telling them if they didn't fire the prosecutor investigating his son within six hours they wouldn't get a billion dollars. It worked. All Trump did was give them the green light to continue investigating the corruption they were already doing on their own that Joe blackmailed them to stop. They were happy to do it.


Evidence please?


See posts 67 and 137. It's all there.


The video in post 67 makes no mention of the gas company or Hunter Biden. Just internal Ukrainian affairs. Post 137 talks about the current occupant of the White House asking to look into Hunter Biden and Joe Biden in exchange for military aid that had been promised.

I am still wondering how and why the extra funds were authorized by the White House?

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... s-scrutiny

Not much talk about this cherry on top on "fair and balanced" Fox.
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WarRI1
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:19 am

Not much talk about this cherry on top on "fair and balanced" Fox.

There is no fair and balanced Fox, what an outright charade for them to claim such, they and trump deserve each other. Chris Wallace is as close to fair as is possible on this rag of a network.
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:50 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Not much talk about this cherry on top on "fair and balanced" Fox.

There is no fair and balanced Fox, what an outright charade for them to claim such, they and trump deserve each other. Chris Wallace is as close to fair as is possible on this rag of a network.


I have respect for Shep Smith. As horrible as that infotainment channel is, he is okay. And still no talk of the extra payment.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:23 am

afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Joe's political campaign is collateral damage. Joe blackmailed a foreign power by telling them if they didn't fire the prosecutor investigating his son within six hours they wouldn't get a billion dollars. It worked. All Trump did was give them the green light to continue investigating the corruption they were already doing on their own that Joe blackmailed them to stop. They were happy to do it.


Evidence please?


See posts 67 and 137. It's all there.

Yah there’s no evidence. Btdubs who is paying crazypants Giuliani to do all this digging around the world? Or the other two “off the book” lawyers?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:02 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
bgm wrote:

Evidence please?


See posts 67 and 137. It's all there.

Yah there’s no evidence. Btdubs who is paying crazypants Giuliani to do all this digging around the world? Or the other two “off the book” lawyers?


What everyone wants to know is what happened to Rudy? From the hero mayor of 9/11 to a complete nutjob who defends criminal WH behavior, sees bogeymen everywhere, and is such a good Catholic he's on messy divorce number three. He's like the crazy uncle in the family who threw away a good life and reputation.
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bgm
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:30 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aww poor Lindsey Graham. He is so lost without John McCain.

https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status ... 3678687232

LINDSEY GRAHAM: The whistleblower complaint is just hearsay.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But the whistleblower complaint is matched by the call record in numerous ways.

GRAHAM: Well, you’ve got an opinion, I've got an opinion.'

And then there’s walnuts Giuliani:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=RY843m9SHOo


Trump only hires the best people! :rotfl:

Wow, Rudy is complete looney tunes now. It’s actually sad to watch.
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
bgm
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:10 am

Trump is getting panicky. He wrote the following tweet in caps, and then deleted it (which is illegal).

The only thing destroying the GOP is their blind loyalty to this complete moron. Perhaps this would be a good time to ditch the Donald before the dumpster fire spreads?

More popcorn, please!

Image
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:44 pm

bgm wrote:
Trump is getting panicky. He wrote the following tweet in caps, and then deleted it (which is illegal).

The only thing destroying the GOP is their blind loyalty to this complete moron. Perhaps this would be a good time to ditch the Donald before the dumpster fire spreads?

More popcorn, please!

Image

If anyone is destroying the Republican Party, it’s Trump, and for that I’d happily send him a hamberder basket for it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:36 pm

It seems the whistleblower law was conveniently changed one month before this happened to include heresy. Also John Brennan who was a key player resulting in the counter investigation sent out the following tweet:

"A reminder to federal officials:

There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute.

If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Trump or someone doing his bidding, now is the time to report it."

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnbrennan/ ... 9254872064
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:58 pm

afcjets wrote:
It seems the whistleblower law was conveniently changed one month before this happened to include heresy. Also John Brennan who was a key player resulting in the counter investigation sent out the following tweet:

"A reminder to federal officials:

There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute.

If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Trump or someone doing his bidding, now is the time to report it."

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnbrennan/ ... 9254872064


The federal whistle blower laws were updated and strengthened in 2012

https://www.cpsc.gov/About-CPSC/Inspect ... on-Act-WPA

Before any of this went down.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Palop
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:58 pm

afcjets wrote:
It seems the whistleblower law was conveniently changed one month before this happened to include heresy. Also John Brennan who was a key player resulting in the counter investigation sent out the following tweet:

"A reminder to federal officials:

There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute.

If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Trump or someone doing his bidding, now is the time to report it."

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnbrennan/ ... 9254872064


Bzzt. Wrong. The whistleblower form already allowed second hand information. What changed on the form Was that they combined external and internal second hand info boxes into a single second hand info box.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:17 pm

Palop wrote:
afcjets wrote:
It seems the whistleblower law was conveniently changed one month before this happened to include heresy. Also John Brennan who was a key player resulting in the counter investigation sent out the following tweet:

"A reminder to federal officials:

There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute.

If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Trump or someone doing his bidding, now is the time to report it."

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnbrennan/ ... 9254872064


Bzzt. Wrong. The whistleblower form already allowed second hand information. What changed on the form Was that they combined external and internal second hand info boxes into a single second hand info box.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear



And the best part is that Lindsey Graham has already affirmed that second hand information is admissible in impeachments. Remember Linda Tripp anyone?
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bgm
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:50 pm

casinterest wrote:
And the best part is that Lindsey Graham has already affirmed that second hand information is admissible in impeachments. Remember Linda Tripp anyone?


:rotfl: this is just too good. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

The GOP are panicking. I mean, really panicking. They seem to be throwing out all sorts of mud (falsehoods, conspiracies etc) to see if anything will stick.

At some point, if they want to save the party they're going to have man up and do the right thing: sacrifice the orange turd. He's now too much of a liability.

It's interesting also that most of the usual Trump sycophants here are cricket-chirpingly quiet. Hmm...
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:22 am

bgm wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And the best part is that Lindsey Graham has already affirmed that second hand information is admissible in impeachments. Remember Linda Tripp anyone?


:rotfl: this is just too good. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

The GOP are panicking. I mean, really panicking. They seem to be throwing out all sorts of mud (falsehoods, conspiracies etc) to see if anything will stick.

At some point, if they want to save the party they're going to have man up and do the right thing: sacrifice the orange turd. He's now too much of a liability.

It's interesting also that most of the usual Trump sycophants here are cricket-chirpingly quiet. Hmm...

Problem is that turd is way more popular than they are, as has been made obvious by Lindsey’s pre 2016 amnesia and whiplash about turn on Dear Leader. I really don’t know what the GOP does now...
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WarRI1
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:52 am

seb146 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Not much talk about this cherry on top on "fair and balanced" Fox.

There is no fair and balanced Fox, what an outright charade for them to claim such, they and trump deserve each other. Chris Wallace is as close to fair as is possible on this rag of a network.


I have respect for Shep Smith. As horrible as that infotainment channel is, he is okay. And still no talk of the extra payment.



I agree, he is the only other guy with some credibility on Fox. I have been waiting for both of them to be fired for having some credibility.
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WarRI1
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:23 am

WarRI1 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Not much talk about this cherry on top on "fair and balanced" Fox.

There is no fair and balanced Fox, what an outright charade for them to claim such, they and trump deserve each other. Chris Wallace is as close to fair as is possible on this rag of a network.


I have respect for Shep Smith. As horrible as that infotainment channel is, he is okay. And still no talk of the extra payment.



I agree, he is the only other guy with some credibility on Fox. I have been waiting for both of them to be fired for having some credibility.



(Case in point)



https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-news-chr ... 00531.html
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afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:28 pm

Palop wrote:
afcjets wrote:
It seems the whistleblower law was conveniently changed one month before this happened to include heresy. Also John Brennan who was a key player resulting in the counter investigation sent out the following tweet:

"A reminder to federal officials:

There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute.

If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Trump or someone doing his bidding, now is the time to report it."

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnbrennan/ ... 9254872064


Bzzt. Wrong. The whistleblower form already allowed second hand information. What changed on the form Was that they combined external and internal second hand info boxes into a single second hand info box.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear


Not exactly. In fact lawmakers from both houses wrote a letter to the ICIG yesterday demanding answers regarding the secret and convenient changes made to the form and he is to report back by Thursday.

“"Based on the language on [the May 24, 2018] form, it appears that the requirement for first-hand information has been an ICIG policy regardless of how a whistleblower makes an urgent concern report,” they wrote. “Curiously the urgent disclosure form that now appears on the Office of the Director of National Intelligence website has recently changed and no longer contains this explicit first-hand information requirement.”...

“[T]he timing of the removal of the first-hand information requirement raises questions about potential connections to this whistleblower’s complaint,” the lawmakers continued. “This timing, along with numerous apparent leaks of classified information about the contents of this complaint, also raise questions about potential criminality in the handling of these matters."...

“Why did the IC IG intially require first-hand information in its May 2018 disclosure form?” the senators asked. “Why did the IC IG remove the requirement for first-hand information?”

“Please list all personnel who were involved in and approved both the May 2018 form and August 2019 versions of the form,” they wrote. “Please provide all records discussing the creation of the May 2018 form as well as the change in reporting standards found on the August 2019 form.”"

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/30/to ... wer-rules/
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:51 pm

afcjets wrote:
Palop wrote:
afcjets wrote:
It seems the whistleblower law was conveniently changed one month before this happened to include heresy. Also John Brennan who was a key player resulting in the counter investigation sent out the following tweet:

"A reminder to federal officials:

There is no limit on the number of individuals who can use the whistleblower statute.

If you think you were involved in unlawful activity as a result of a directive from Mr. Trump or someone doing his bidding, now is the time to report it."

https://mobile.twitter.com/johnbrennan/ ... 9254872064


Bzzt. Wrong. The whistleblower form already allowed second hand information. What changed on the form Was that they combined external and internal second hand info boxes into a single second hand info box.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-shows ... ower-smear


Not exactly. In fact lawmakers from both houses wrote a letter to the ICIG yesterday demanding answers regarding the secret and convenient changes made to the form and he is to report back by Thursday.

“"Based on the language on [the May 24, 2018] form, it appears that the requirement for first-hand information has been an ICIG policy regardless of how a whistleblower makes an urgent concern report,” they wrote. “Curiously the urgent disclosure form that now appears on the Office of the Director of National Intelligence website has recently changed and no longer contains this explicit first-hand information requirement.”...

“[T]he timing of the removal of the first-hand information requirement raises questions about potential connections to this whistleblower’s complaint,” the lawmakers continued. “This timing, along with numerous apparent leaks of classified information about the contents of this complaint, also raise questions about potential criminality in the handling of these matters."...

“Why did the IC IG intially require first-hand information in its May 2018 disclosure form?” the senators asked. “Why did the IC IG remove the requirement for first-hand information?”

“Please list all personnel who were involved in and approved both the May 2018 form and August 2019 versions of the form,” they wrote. “Please provide all records discussing the creation of the May 2018 form as well as the change in reporting standards found on the August 2019 form.”"

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/30/to ... wer-rules/


The Federalist report has already been debunked by numerous other sources, namely the IC IG’s own most recent attestations:

Here's the IG again (emphasis added):

In fact, by law the Complainant – or any individual in the Intelligence Community who wants to report information with respect to an urgent concern to the congressional intelligence committees – need not possess first-hand information in order to file a complaint or information with respect to an urgent concern. The ICIG cannot add conditions to the filing of an urgent concern that do not exist in law. Since Inspector General Atkinson entered on duty as the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, the ICIG has not rejected the filing of an alleged urgent concern due to a whistleblower's lack of first-hand knowledge of the allegations.

The whistleblower checked both boxes on the form, indicating that he had first- and second-hand knowledge of events in his complaint, the IG said. As part of its effort to determine whether the report was credible, the IG determined that the whistleblower had authorized access to the information and sources he referenced, "including direct knowledge of certain alleged conduct," the IG wrote, and subject matter expertise of "much of the material information" in the complaint.

"In short, the ICIG did not find that the Complainant could 'provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions,' which would have made it much harder, and significantly less likely, for the Inspector General to determine in a 14-calendar day review period that the complaint 'appeared credible,' as required by statute," the IG wrote.


https://taskandpurpose.com/ic-ig-compla ... 4.amp.html
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Palop
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:59 pm

Here is the May 2018 form
https://www.scribd.com/document/4277674 ... =affiliate
Section 2 part 1:
 
IC IG ICWSP Form 401 Rev:
24
MAY18
IC IG – ICWSP
Urgent Concern Disclosure Form
Page 3
Part 2: Details of Your Disclosure
1.I know about the information I am disclosing here based on (check all that apply):

I have personal and/or direct knowledge of 
events or records involved

Other employees have told me about events
or records involved

Other source(s)
(please explain)

Clearly it allowed for second hand sources. Your turn.
 
wingman
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:04 pm

This whole saga is proof that Trump is a deranged and paranoid lunatic. All of this is his own doing and rooted in his inability to believe a single report or investigative conclusion from his own DOJ, CIA, FBI..you name it. Asking foreign countries to somehow overturn conclusions into Biden, Ukraine, Russia. And we have actual citizens, some on this site, AND elected government officials willingly going along with that tune. These are people that would rather solicit and believe in information provided by Russian intelligence services over their own. It's literally a short tiny hop from there to actively supporting enemy combat troops against your own Marine Corps in time of war. Treasonous scum puppets is the gentlest description I can come up with.
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:33 pm

Palop wrote:
Here is the May 2018 form
https://www.scribd.com/document/4277674 ... =affiliate
Section 2 part 1:
 
IC IG ICWSP Form 401 Rev:
24
MAY18
IC IG – ICWSP
Urgent Concern Disclosure Form
Page 3
Part 2: Details of Your Disclosure
1.I know about the information I am disclosing here based on (check all that apply):

I have personal and/or direct knowledge of 
events or records involved

Other employees have told me about events
or records involved

Other source(s)
(please explain)

Clearly it allowed for second hand sources. Your turn.


From your own link near the top of the form:

"FIRST-HAND INFORMATION REQUIRED

In order to find an urgent concern credible, the IC IG must be in possession of reliable, first-hand information. The IC IG cannot transmit information via the ICWPA based on an employee’s second
-hand knowledge of wrongdoing. This includes information received from another person, such as when a fellow employee informs you that he/she witnessed some type of wrongdoing. (Anyone with first-hand knowledge of the allegations may file a disclosure in writing directly with IC IG.) Similarly, speculation about the existence of wrongdoing does not provide sufficient legal basis to meet the statutory requirements of the ICWPA. If you think that wrongdoing took place, but can provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions, IC IG will not be able to process the complaint or information for submission as an ICWPA."

If they only check that box, it doesn't get processed.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:51 pm

afcjets wrote:
Palop wrote:
Here is the May 2018 form
https://www.scribd.com/document/4277674 ... =affiliate
Section 2 part 1:
 
IC IG ICWSP Form 401 Rev:
24
MAY18
IC IG – ICWSP
Urgent Concern Disclosure Form
Page 3
Part 2: Details of Your Disclosure
1.I know about the information I am disclosing here based on (check all that apply):

I have personal and/or direct knowledge of 
events or records involved

Other employees have told me about events
or records involved

Other source(s)
(please explain)

Clearly it allowed for second hand sources. Your turn.


From your own link near the top of the form:

"FIRST-HAND INFORMATION REQUIRED

In order to find an urgent concern credible, the IC IG must be in possession of reliable, first-hand information. The IC IG cannot transmit information via the ICWPA based on an employee’s second
-hand knowledge of wrongdoing. This includes information received from another person, such as when a fellow employee informs you that he/she witnessed some type of wrongdoing. (Anyone with first-hand knowledge of the allegations may file a disclosure in writing directly with IC IG.) Similarly, speculation about the existence of wrongdoing does not provide sufficient legal basis to meet the statutory requirements of the ICWPA. If you think that wrongdoing took place, but can provide nothing more than second-hand or unsubstantiated assertions, IC IG will not be able to process the complaint or information for submission as an ICWPA."

If they only check that box, it doesn't get processed.


So you essentially did not read the other account quoted above directly from the IC IG.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Palop
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:24 pm

Per may 2018 form a concern would not get classified as an urgent and credible concern unless there also were first hand info available. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t issue a complaint with second hand info. You could, as long as there is first hand evidence to corroborate the complaint. There Is a change though, since the old form spells it out in clear text what is needed for a concern to be considered urgent and credible. I looked at the current forms and on the DNI whistle blower pages about info of what is needed now for info to be considered urgent and credible and that info is really hard to find. I could not find that info spelled out in clear text. It may or may not need the same threshold, but how would you know if it isn’t spelled out. The most complete explanation I could find is this:

https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Document ... laints.pdf

Which again states that the ICIG needs first hand information for the complaint to be regarded as urgent and credible, so it seems like the underlying requirements hasn’t changed. But in addition the explanation also states that the ICIG also conducted a review of the complaint and THEN considered urgent and credible. This means that either the ICIG spoke to a first hand witness to confirm the complaint or the ICIG broke the law when it called the complaint urgent and credible.
So all in all, little has changed from May 2018, and it seems like the second hand complaint is backed up by first hand evidence.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:29 pm

Palop wrote:
Per may 2018 form a concern would not get classified as an urgent and credible concern unless there also were first hand info available. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t issue a complaint with second hand info. You could, as long as there is first hand evidence to corroborate the complaint. There Is a change though, since the old form spells it out in clear text what is needed for a concern to be considered urgent and credible. I looked at the current forms and on the DNI whistle blower pages about info of what is needed now for info to be considered urgent and credible and that info is really hard to find. I could not find that info spelled out in clear text. It may or may not need the same threshold, but how would you know if it isn’t spelled out. The most complete explanation I could find is this:

https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Document ... laints.pdf

Which again states that the ICIG needs first hand information for the complaint to be regarded as urgent and credible, so it seems like the underlying requirements hasn’t changed. But in addition the explanation also states that the ICIG also conducted a review of the complaint and THEN considered urgent and credible. This means that either the ICIG spoke to a first hand witness to confirm the complaint or the ICIG broke the law when it called the complaint urgent and credible.
So all in all, little has changed from May 2018, and it seems like the second hand complaint is backed up by first hand evidence.


No sense taking the bait - they are trying to invent process minutiae scandals to distract from the substance of 45’s staggering incompetence and failure to uphold the oath of office.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:31 pm

The Trump Republicans do not believe in law and order or procedures when they get busted for illegal activities. That is all you have to understand about the current issue. Trump has created a lawless organization that is destroying the GOP.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Spar
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:04 pm

Here's a link to a story that has a great video of Lindsey Graham thanking god that there doesn't need to be a crime in order to impeach the president.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/linds ... e-impeach/

Thanks god for that video.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:29 pm

The House is looking back into the Mueller report as they have reason to believe that Trump Lied (imagine that :roll: )

https://www.axios.com/mueller-trump-hou ... 6d8c6.html

Lawyers for House lawmakers have suggested they believe President Trump may have lied to former special counsel Robert Mueller about his knowledge of his campaign's connections to WikiLeaks, according to a court filing obtained by Politico Monday.


This is relevant to the Ukraine issue as well since Trump was worried about Russian interference in 2016 based on the call transcript.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
wingman
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:14 pm

Fox News is awesome. They post the same bullshit conspiracy theory as their main website headline and then go on to prove it’s nothing but a bullshit conspiracy in their own article!! Of course the comments section is disabled on that story so members of the core wont damage their own brains attempting to glean the correct talking points. The GOP spin machine is sinning it’s wheels hard right now.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:14 pm

afcjets wrote:
Palop wrote:
Here is the May 2018 form
https://www.scribd.com/document/4277674 ... =affiliate
Section 2 part 1:
 
IC IG ICWSP Form 401 Rev:
24
MAY18
IC IG – ICWSP
Urgent Concern Disclosure Form
Page 3
Part 2: Details of Your Disclosure
1.I know about the information I am disclosing here based on (check all that apply):

I have personal and/or direct knowledge of 
events or records involved

Other employees have told me about events
or records involved


Other source(s)
(please explain)

Clearly it allowed for second hand sources. Your turn.


From your own link near the top of the form:

"FIRST-HAND INFORMATION REQUIRED


I highlighted where second-hand information is fine.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bgm
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:37 am

Some highlights from yesterday:

Image

When you're trying to get the attention of the waiter to get the check -- because your Grindr date turned out to be a braying lunatic who's the Florence Nightingale of nursing grudges.

Gotta love Mrs. Betty Bowers :rotfl:

https://www.facebook.com/312383761871/p ... 5252201872
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:31 pm

He's going through shades of orange, red and purple we hadn't seen before... Fascinating.

The detestable behavior, on the other hand, is familiar. 'Wounded raccoon being found in a dumpster' comes to mind, hissing and all.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:39 pm

Trump has completely abandoned his defense and continued to incriminate himself.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1179770843372691460
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:42 pm

afcjets wrote:
It seems the whistleblower law was conveniently changed one month before this happened to include heresy.

Then it means Trump and the GOP Senate signed off on it. A law can't be changed by one committee, agency, or chamber of Congress.

bgm wrote:
Gotta love Mrs. Betty Bowers


Betty Bowers 2020!
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
bgm
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:27 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump has completely abandoned his defense and continued to incriminate himself.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1179770843372691460


He's completely lost it. It's almost like he wants to be impeached?
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:35 pm

bgm wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump has completely abandoned his defense and continued to incriminate himself.

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1179770843372691460


He's completely lost it. It's almost like he wants to be impeached?


Probably really losing it due to the following
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/politics ... index.html

The 2016 letter, sent by members of the Senate Ukraine Caucus, was signed by Republican Sens. Rob Portman, Mark Kirk and Ron Johnson, as well as Democratic Sens. Dick Durbin, Jeanne Shaheen, Chris Murphy, Sherrod Brown, and Richard Blumenthal and focused on longstanding issues of corruption in Ukraine and urged reforms of the government.


The letter below was part of the story from Feb 2016.

https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom ... tment-help

Succeeding in these reforms will show Russian President Vladimir Putin that an independent, transparent, and democratic Ukraine can and will succeed. It also offers a stark alternative to the authoritarianism and oligarchic cronyism prevalent in Russia. As such, we respectfully ask that you address the serious concerns raised by Minister Abromavi?ius‎. We similarly urge you to press ahead with urgent reforms to the Prosecutor General's office and judiciary. The unanimous adoption by the Cabinet of Ministers of the Basic Principles and Action Plan is a good step.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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EstherLouise
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:40 pm

Did I just hear Trump PUBLICLY ask China to investigate his political rival? Good God. The man has no clue what is and isn't legal in US government. He thinks he's running a business.... not the Executive Branch.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:43 pm

EstherLouise wrote:
Did I just hear Trump PUBLICLY ask China to investigate his political rival? Good God. The man has no clue what is and isn't legal in US government. He thinks he's running a business.... not the Executive Branch.

And people will say that it's precisely that why they voted for him...because the country needed to be run like a business...which makes sense, except Trump isn't exactly the poster child of successful business management.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
BerenErchamion
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 5:57 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
EstherLouise wrote:
Did I just hear Trump PUBLICLY ask China to investigate his political rival? Good God. The man has no clue what is and isn't legal in US government. He thinks he's running a business.... not the Executive Branch.

And people will say that it's precisely that why they voted for him...because the country needed to be run like a business...which makes sense, except Trump isn't exactly the poster child of successful business management.


It also doesn't make sense in the abstract, because a government's purpose is completely different from that of a for-profit business and operates under a very different set of constraints and incentives.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:30 pm

BerenErchamion wrote:
It also doesn't make sense in the abstract, because a government's purpose is completely different from that of a for-profit business and operates under a very different set of constraints and incentives.

Well, there are basic concepts that DO make sense.

A company operating in the red for too long becomes unstable and prone for collapse. A country with an independent monetary policy can issue as much debt as it can though, especially if the country's currency is a standard in the world. But you can't tell me that government shouldn't strive to have at the very least a balanced budget and pay down debt issued, like a company would. You can't tell me that a government (must like a company) shouldn't invest in research and development. And that a government shouldn't use part of the funds to take care of its people (infrastructure, basic services, subsidized services...).

A CEO of a privately held company (like Trump is) will operate very differently to one that is beholden to shareholders (whether at Wall Street or community ones) because the former answers to himself and can do as he pleases while the latter answers to shareholders and has to do what's best for them. In a sense, all government heads should operate with the latter mentality: they serve US, the voters, not themselves.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
BN747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:48 pm

bgm wrote:
Some highlights from yesterday:

Image

When you're trying to get the attention of the waiter to get the check -- because your Grindr date turned out to be a braying lunatic who's the Florence Nightingale of nursing grudges.

Gotta love Mrs. Betty Bowers :rotfl:

https://www.facebook.com/312383761871/p ... 5252201872


This photo deserves some defense....so since no fan boys will step up, I'll play the role of 'stand in as a MAGA fanboy'...

Maga Fan:He's just angry that Hillary is getting away with illegal email serve stuff! Stop picking on him!

BN747: But he's an uncontrollable idiot, he deserves to be picked on...

Maga Fan: You're just trying to redo the 2016 election! America rejected Hillary, who cares she won 3 million more votes, America rejected Her! Deal with it!

BN747:Ummm..okay, I guess that explains his mad man performance broadcast worldwide yesterday.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:56 pm

The Federal Election Commission chair decided to weigh in on this. Again.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fec-chai ... ex0M5L-7uk

What the occupant of the White House, asking both Ukraine and China to investigate his political rival, is ILLEGAL! And, yet, he keeps doing it AND he has a loud chorus of people saying it is acceptable and there is no problem.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:23 am

It’s completely legal for the President to see that laws are faithfully executed. Asking a foreign official to assist a US investigation is not illegal.

Hunter Biden is such a prince, too. After all, any American discharged from the military for cocaine abuse and with zero knowledge of the oil industry should expect to get a $50,000 a MONTH job with a foreign entity. Dad being VP had nothing to do with it.

I hope Barr and Durham gets the bottom of the sludge that inhabits DC before the CIA does them or the President in.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:44 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s completely legal for the President to see that laws are faithfully executed. Asking a foreign official to assist a US investigation is not illegal.

Hunter Biden is such a prince, too. After all, any American discharged from the military for cocaine abuse and with zero knowledge of the oil industry should expect to get a $50,000 a MONTH job with a foreign entity. Dad being VP had nothing to do with it.

I hope Barr and Durham gets the bottom of the sludge that inhabits DC before the CIA does them or the President in.


President Trump is using his executive power to interfere in private business decisions of a political opponent. If you think that is ok, then you must be a Socialist Commie.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:38 am

casinterest wrote:
President Trump is using his executive power to interfere in private business decisions of a political opponent. If you think that is ok, then you must be a Socialist Commie.


A VP using or withholding taxpayer funds of a foreign government is not a private business decision.
 
alfa164
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:55 am

afcjets wrote:
A VP using or withholding taxpayer funds of a foreign government is not a private business decision.


For once, you are correct. A VP using or withholding taxpayer funds destined to a foreign government was, in this case, carrying out the publicly stated, official policy of the U.S.A., the E.U., and the IMF:

"(1) Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, did take consulting work for a Ukrainian oil company, Burisma, that was under investigation by a Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, for the work under the prior Russian-allied regime. This is where the true part of the Trump disinformation comes to an end.
(2) The problem was that Shokin actively stood in the way of international investigations that the U.S. and other democratic reformers were pursuing.
(3) Vice President Biden, U.S. diplomats, and our E.U. allies all called on the prosecutor to be fired so the corrupt oligarchs could be investigated MORE AGGRESSIVELY. This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."


https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-the-nonsense-trump-biden-ukraine-false-equivalency/
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:13 am

alfa164 wrote:
Vice President Biden, U.S. diplomats, and our E.U. allies all called on the prosecutor to be fired so the corrupt oligarchs could be investigated MORE AGGRESSIVELY. This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."[/i][/color]

https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-the-nonsense-trump-biden-ukraine-false-equivalency/


Great! Even though Trump was wanting the Ukraine to investigate the former VP of the administration that spied on him as a political candidate, this actually HELPS Trump's incidental, potential political opponent then!
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