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casinterest
Posts: 9307
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:26 am

afcjets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
President Trump is using his executive power to interfere in private business decisions of a political opponent. If you think that is ok, then you must be a Socialist Commie.


A VP using or withholding taxpayer funds of a foreign government is not a private business decision.


Sorry but what part of the US constitution do you not understand? A VP acting in an official capacity with the backing of a bipartisan senate and congress agreement can absolutely withold money.

Maybe you are too bust watching the socialist commies that work at Fox news these days .?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
Posts: 6799
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:31 am

casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s completely legal for the President to see that laws are faithfully executed. Asking a foreign official to assist a US investigation is not illegal.

Hunter Biden is such a prince, too. After all, any American discharged from the military for cocaine abuse and with zero knowledge of the oil industry should expect to get a $50,000 a MONTH job with a foreign entity. Dad being VP had nothing to do with it.

I hope Barr and Durham gets the bottom of the sludge that inhabits DC before the CIA does them or the President in.


President Trump is using his executive power to interfere in private business decisions of a political opponent. If you think that is ok, then you must be a Socialist Commie.


I think most people watching a kid being beaten by a much much larger kid...would not approve of such and unevenly match of this kind, or were it two men, one much smaller than the other.

Russia is the menacing bully in this case.

Ukraine is the bully's victim...they are trying so hard to pull away from a Russian influenced past and align itself with the west and wants join NATO (added security).

Ukraine on the ropes (esp. after losing their Crimea region had deal with the likes of Paul Manafort undermining their gov't for Putin)..is being told by America's Liar-in-Chief, 'we can help if you do us favor'.

US Congressional appropriated funds to assist a nation in need of protection...should never be used this way for personal political gain.

That's extortion...period.

America has gone from the vanguard of freedom loving nations to a snake mentality of 'well...what are you gonna do for us er-ME' nation.

That trend sets in motion for other countries openly to begin acting the same way with one another...and there's no turning back once down that path.

Stop this criminal mindset now...before it's too late.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
anrec80
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:09 am

winginit wrote:
Fact: Donald Trump pressured the President of the Ukraine to investigate a political opponent


The only problem is that Ukrainian President himself stated that there were no pressure.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:15 am

anrec80 wrote:
winginit wrote:
Fact: Donald Trump pressured the President of the Ukraine to investigate a political opponent


The only problem is that Ukrainian President himself stated that there were no pressure.


A Ukranian President that needs massive firepower that the US provides to defend itself against the invading Russians.

That is the polar opposite of "No Pressure"
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:01 am

anrec80 wrote:
winginit wrote:
Fact: Donald Trump pressured the President of the Ukraine to investigate a political opponent


The only problem is that Ukrainian President himself stated that there were no pressure.


"I would like you to do us a favor, though...." is pressure. It is saying "we will give you the defense we already approved but you need to look into a matter that has been settled".
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
anrec80
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:15 am

seb146 wrote:
"I would like you to do us a favor, though...." is pressure. It is saying "we will give you the defense we already approved but you need to look into a matter that has been settled".


“Do us a favor” is too open for interpretation. The very basic meaning of the word “favor” implies that this is a totally voluntary thing. An example of pressure would be, say, threat to use military force or sanction threat (e.g. shut Ukraine off world’s financial system - something any department in Washington can do at its own will, not only President). That would be obvious pressure.
 
afcjets
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:52 am

casinterest wrote:
afcjets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
President Trump is using his executive power to interfere in private business decisions of a political opponent. If you think that is ok, then you must be a Socialist Commie.
A VP using or withholding taxpayer funds of a foreign government is not a private business decision.
Sorry but what part of the US constitution do you not understand? A VP acting in an official capacity with the backing of a bipartisan senate and congress agreement can absolutely withold money.

Maybe you are too bust watching the socialist commies that work at Fox news these days .?


Of course he can, what part do you not understand that that is official government business and not a private business decision as you claim?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:39 pm

afcjets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
afcjets wrote:
A VP using or withholding taxpayer funds of a foreign government is not a private business decision.
Sorry but what part of the US constitution do you not understand? A VP acting in an official capacity with the backing of a bipartisan senate and congress agreement can absolutely withold money.

Maybe you are too bust watching the socialist commies that work at Fox news these days .?


Of course he can, what part do you not understand that that is official government business and not a private business decision as you claim?


I understand it perfectly. It is you that can't get it through your Fox News Socialist network, that Trump is the one committing the impeachable offense. Volker's messages are confirming the fact that quid pro quo's were very much a part of Trump's offers.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:39 pm

casinterest wrote:
afcjets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Sorry but what part of the US constitution do you not understand? A VP acting in an official capacity with the backing of a bipartisan senate and congress agreement can absolutely withold money.

Maybe you are too bust watching the socialist commies that work at Fox news these days .?


Of course he can, what part do you not understand that that is official government business and not a private business decision as you claim?


I understand it perfectly. It is you that can't get it through your Fox News Socialist network, that Trump is the one committing the impeachable offense. Volker's messages are confirming the fact that quid pro quo's were very much a part of Trump's offers.


It's plain as day - not to mention all the meetups with Giuliani, who has no official government post or diplomatic function. NOT seeing it is a choice of willful omission.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BerenErchamion
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:03 pm

anrec80 wrote:
winginit wrote:
Fact: Donald Trump pressured the President of the Ukraine to investigate a political opponent


The only problem is that Ukrainian President himself stated that there were no pressure.


Think for a minute about why he might say that.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:20 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s completely legal for the President to see that laws are faithfully executed. Asking a foreign official to assist a US investigation is not illegal.

Hunter Biden is such a prince, too. After all, any American discharged from the military for cocaine abuse and with zero knowledge of the oil industry should expect to get a $50,000 a MONTH job with a foreign entity. Dad being VP had nothing to do with it.

I hope Barr and Durham gets the bottom of the sludge that inhabits DC before the CIA does them or the President in.

Barr *is* the bottom of the sludge. If you're mad about incompetent people--especially politically well connected ones--getting loads of money sitting on boards, you're about a century too late.

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
"I would like you to do us a favor, though...." is pressure. It is saying "we will give you the defense we already approved but you need to look into a matter that has been settled".


“Do us a favor” is too open for interpretation. The very basic meaning of the word “favor” implies that this is a totally voluntary thing. An example of pressure would be, say, threat to use military force or sanction threat (e.g. shut Ukraine off world’s financial system - something any department in Washington can do at its own will, not only President). That would be obvious pressure.

Sure, Jan. :roll:

afcjets wrote:
casinterest wrote:
afcjets wrote:
A VP using or withholding taxpayer funds of a foreign government is not a private business decision.
Sorry but what part of the US constitution do you not understand? A VP acting in an official capacity with the backing of a bipartisan senate and congress agreement can absolutely withold money.

Maybe you are too bust watching the socialist commies that work at Fox news these days .?


Of course he can, what part do you not understand that that is official government business and not a private business decision as you claim?

You realize there is a COMICAL amount of evidence from this administration and republicans and looney tunes Giuliani that the withholding of money was for snowflake grudge holder individual #1? Just wait another two minutes and you're guaranteed to have more damning evidence, probably out of Trump's face hole.

There was a text group:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/politics ... vestigate/

There were republicans who signed onto a letter pushing the same reforms of the Ukranian prosecurtor's office as Biden:
https://www.vox.com/2019/10/3/20896869/ ... an-johnson

There was the Ukrainian ambassador removed after complaints from Giuliani--who is not even a government employee
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-orde ... 1570137147

And then there's asking China and Australia to look into Biden and Warren and that's just from my memory of the last two days. And on and on and on. "Watergate but with stupid people" turned out to vastly overstate the intelligence and competence of Republicans. They know their leader is a treasonous crook, but they have little choice but to go down on the ship with him and are throwing anything and everything at the wall hoping something will stick.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:53 pm

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
"I would like you to do us a favor, though...." is pressure. It is saying "we will give you the defense we already approved but you need to look into a matter that has been settled".


“Do us a favor” is too open for interpretation.


Not when he goes on to ask the Ukrainian president to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden. It was never a matter of national security. We all could understand if it were. It had nothing to do with either of them spying against the United States. At worst, it was about the son working for a corrupt gas company. How is that worthy of international investigation by this administration?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:33 pm

seb146 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
"I would like you to do us a favor, though...." is pressure. It is saying "we will give you the defense we already approved but you need to look into a matter that has been settled".


“Do us a favor” is too open for interpretation.


Not when he goes on to ask the Ukrainian president to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden. It was never a matter of national security. We all could understand if it were. It had nothing to do with either of them spying against the United States. At worst, it was about the son working for a corrupt gas company. How is that worthy of international investigation by this administration?


"Do us a favor" is the pump that fills a swamp.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
anrec80
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:37 pm

seb146 wrote:
It had nothing to do with either of them spying against the United States. At worst, it was about the son working for a corrupt gas company. How is that worthy of international investigation by this administration?


Every high ranking official or a visible and influential congressman must understand that not only his actions will reflect on the whole their party, but also those of their family members. And family members must understand that as well, and choose whom they work for and do business with accordingly.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:40 pm

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
It had nothing to do with either of them spying against the United States. At worst, it was about the son working for a corrupt gas company. How is that worthy of international investigation by this administration?


Every high ranking official or a visible and influential congressman must understand that not only his actions will reflect on the whole their party, but also those of their family members. And family members must understand that as well, and choose whom they work for and do business with accordingly.


So, according to you, we have very good reasons to ask foreign governments to investigate Eric, Ivanka, Junior, and Kushner
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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lugie
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:36 pm

anrec80 wrote:
“Do us a favor” is too open for interpretation. The very basic meaning of the word “favor” implies that this is a totally voluntary thing. An example of pressure would be, say, threat to use military force or sanction threat (e.g. shut Ukraine off world’s financial system - something any department in Washington can do at its own will, not only President). That would be obvious pressure.


That is bullsh*t and you know it.

"If you would like to do us a favor, though" refers to a completely voluntary favor in just about the same way as if your mom told you "I'll run out to the stores to buy stuff to cook dinner for everyone, when I'm back in 30 minutes I sure would appreciate it if someone did me a favor and took the clean dishes out of the dishwasher".

Sure, she didn't explicitly order you to empty the dishwasher, and she used the word "favor", but you know you're in for a (verbal) ass-kicking if she returns in 30 minutes and the dishwasher is still full.
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alfa164
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:01 pm

lugie wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
"If you would like to do us a favor, though" refers to a completely voluntary favor in just about the same way as if your mom told you "I'll run out to the stores to buy stuff to cook dinner for everyone, when I'm back in 30 minutes I sure would appreciate it if someone did me a favor and took the clean dishes out of the dishwasher".


:checkmark: The equivalent of, "That is a nice wife and daughter you have. I would hate for anything to happen to them."
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:32 pm

As I said a few days ago, that phony “transcript” is the best case scenario for this administration and that it would get worse. It has, and continues to. Trump had been blasting the whistle blower for treason. This issue was passed up to the top CIA lawyer weeks before the whistle blower sent his/her letter. The CIA formally made a CRIMINAL REFERRAL by asking the Justice Department to open an investigation. The Justice Dept simply closed it without any investigation. Ooooopppps! Billy Barr has some ‘spainin to do. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump- ... t-n1062481
Last edited by SanDiegoLover on Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
anrec80
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:32 pm

seb146 wrote:

So, according to you, we have very good reasons to ask foreign governments to investigate Eric, Ivanka, Junior, and Kushner


Unlike Biden, Trump did not demand anyone to fire a prosecutor somewhere. And - if any of them were involved into any shady dealings with foreign officials or just influencers (a-la oligarchs), then someone should look into those as well. Sure.
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:42 pm

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So, according to you, we have very good reasons to ask foreign governments to investigate Eric, Ivanka, Junior, and Kushner


Unlike Biden, Trump did not demand anyone to fire a prosecutor somewhere. And - if any of them were involved into any shady dealings with foreign officials or just influencers (a-la oligarchs), then someone should look into those as well. Sure.


Deflection. Deflection. The VP of the US has no official power. He or she can only reflect what the POTUS thoughts and demands. Biden was only mirroring what the Obama Administration and the Republican controlled Congress’ identical stance was. Additionally, the first two years of Trump’s administration Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress and the Presidency. They could have opened an investigation and Congress could have too, and even censure Biden. But they didn’t! Why? Because he didn’t do anything.

Now stop deflecting! Trump has massive official power, especially regarding foreign policy. Trump broke the law! Stop defending this turd. You’re embarrassing yourself.
 
anrec80
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:05 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
Deflection. Deflection. The VP of the US has no official power. He or she can only reflect what the POTUS thoughts and demands. Biden was only mirroring what the Obama Administration and the Republican controlled Congress’ identical stance was. Additionally, the first two years of Trump’s administration Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress and the Presidency. They could have opened an investigation and Congress could have too, and even censure Biden. But they didn’t! Why? Because he didn’t do anything.

Now stop deflecting! Trump has massive official power, especially regarding foreign policy. Trump broke the law! Stop defending this turd. You’re embarrassing yourself.


It’s not about who has more official power. Official power does not necessarily equate to real influence. As of 2008, Obama was a newbie senator, while Biden was already a veteran in politics and international relations. And, of course, was one of the leaders of the Democratic Party. To me at least, Biden was rather a “gray cardinal” in Washington - someone who may not have official power, but defines strategic course and is involved in many key decisions. Such people are said to be running the country even when they do not hold any official position.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:30 pm

And here's a Trump appointee referring the whistleblower's complaint to the DOJ:
"The move by the CIA's general counsel, Trump appointee Courtney Simmons Elwood, meant she and other senior officials had concluded a potential crime had been committed, raising more questions about why the Justice Department later declined to open an investigation.

"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump- ... Io7YPovNVw
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:57 am

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So, according to you, we have very good reasons to ask foreign governments to investigate Eric, Ivanka, Junior, and Kushner


Unlike Biden, Trump did not demand anyone to fire a prosecutor somewhere. And - if any of them were involved into any shady dealings with foreign officials or just influencers (a-la oligarchs), then someone should look into those as well. Sure.


As is continually pointed out, both houses of Congress, with bipartisan support, asked that Ukraine fire the corrupt prosecutor. Not Joe Biden alone. Not Hunter Biden alone.

Since there is no "there" there, we MUST investigate Ivanka (who received patents from China after daddy's visit) and Eric and Junior and Kushner who meet with foreign leaders and oligarchs all the time. Again, according to you anrec80, that is grounds enough for opening investigations into shady dealings with foreign officials. Hearsay is enough for you.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:17 pm

“There are no felonies, there are no Impeachable offenses. The Constitution’s very clear that you need bribery, treason, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. You can’t be impeached for the conduct that’s been alleged in this case.” Alan Dershowitz (lifelong democrat and Hillary supporter who hasnt sold out to Trump hatred)
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:50 pm

SteelChair wrote:
“There are no felonies, there are no Impeachable offenses. The Constitution’s very clear that you need bribery, treason, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. You can’t be impeached for the conduct that’s been alleged in this case.” Alan Dershowitz (lifelong democrat and Hillary supporter who hasnt sold out to Trump hatred)


A statement by an ex-Harvard guy completely out of step with the prevailing academic consensus on impeachment since the 1970s - no wonder he retired.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:06 am

Aaron747 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
“There are no felonies, there are no Impeachable offenses. The Constitution’s very clear that you need bribery, treason, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. You can’t be impeached for the conduct that’s been alleged in this case.” Alan Dershowitz (lifelong democrat and Hillary supporter who hasnt sold out to Trump hatred)


A statement by an ex-Harvard guy completely out of step with the prevailing academic consensus on impeachment since the 1970s - no wonder he retired.


But he was exactly correct on Russia collusion (lack thereof).

He'll be proven correct again in this case This case is a political calculation, a political move by the democrats. Nothing will come of it. How do all the people trumpeting this "case" have any credibility left at all? Why do people believe them after all the lies they spun on Kavanaugh, the Russia collision case, and the fake dossier? To name just a few.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:13 am

SteelChair wrote:
“There are no felonies, there are no Impeachable offenses. The Constitution’s very clear that you need bribery, treason, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. You can’t be impeached for the conduct that’s been alleged in this case.” Alan Dershowitz (lifelong democrat and Hillary supporter who hasnt sold out to Trump hatred)

Lol Alan Dershowitz, fresh off defending Trump bff Epstein. Try harder.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:22 am

SteelChair wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
“There are no felonies, there are no Impeachable offenses. The Constitution’s very clear that you need bribery, treason, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. You can’t be impeached for the conduct that’s been alleged in this case.” Alan Dershowitz (lifelong democrat and Hillary supporter who hasnt sold out to Trump hatred)


A statement by an ex-Harvard guy completely out of step with the prevailing academic consensus on impeachment since the 1970s - no wonder he retired.


But he was exactly correct on Russia collusion (lack thereof).

He'll be proven correct again in this case This case is a political calculation, a political move by the democrats. Nothing will come of it. How do all the people trumpeting this "case" have any credibility left at all? Why do people believe them after all the lies they spun on Kavanaugh, the Russia collision case, and the fake dossier? To name just a few.


'Exactly correct' implies 100%. Scientifically, he is only 50% correct as the chance of the campaign being completely absolved in a definitive collusion case remains 50-50. Most of those rejoicing at the Mueller report's lack of conclusions forget the most critical part - multiple witnesses were deceptive or non-cooperative, and this led to significant material omissions. Therefore, we cannot definitively state there were no untoward actions, as the report is written in such a way it contains numerous loose ends:

It is important to keep in mind that the Report’s analysis is about whether or not to prosecute someone for a crime. Furthermore, statements that the investigation “did not establish” something occurred are not the same as saying there was “no evidence” that it occurred. The Report has clear ways of saying when the investigation found no evidence. It conveys the absence of any evidence when, for example, it states the investigation “did not identify evidence” or “did not uncover evidence” that something occurred. Even then, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guid ... collusion/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:30 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
“There are no felonies, there are no Impeachable offenses. The Constitution’s very clear that you need bribery, treason, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. You can’t be impeached for the conduct that’s been alleged in this case.” Alan Dershowitz (lifelong democrat and Hillary supporter who hasnt sold out to Trump hatred)

Lol Alan Dershowitz, fresh off defending Trump bff Epstein. Try harder.

Your ad hominem atttack is a very weak response. You've succumbed to the character assassination the swamp created recently about Prof Dershowitz, which he is currently successfully fighting.

Try lifelong liberal democrat Harvard law professor Hillary supporter Dershowitz if you want to describe him.

Doesn't it bother you to see how quickly they throw people overboard in order to fit their narrative, truth be damned? He's the only liberal I can think of that has maintained his intellectual integrity somce the Trump election.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:33 am

Aaron747 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

A statement by an ex-Harvard guy completely out of step with the prevailing academic consensus on impeachment since the 1970s - no wonder he retired.


But he was exactly correct on Russia collusion (lack thereof).

He'll be proven correct again in this case This case is a political calculation, a political move by the democrats. Nothing will come of it. How do all the people trumpeting this "case" have any credibility left at all? Why do people believe them after all the lies they spun on Kavanaugh, the Russia collision case, and the fake dossier? To name just a few.


'Exactly correct' implies 100%. Scientifically, he is only 50% correct as the chance of the campaign being completely absolved in a definitive collusion case remains 50-50. Most of those rejoicing at the Mueller report's lack of conclusions forget the most critical part - multiple witnesses were deceptive or non-cooperative, and this led to significant material omissions. Therefore, we cannot definitively state there were no untoward actions, as the report is written in such a way it contains numerous loose ends:

It is important to keep in mind that the Report’s analysis is about whether or not to prosecute someone for a crime. Furthermore, statements that the investigation “did not establish” something occurred are not the same as saying there was “no evidence” that it occurred. The Report has clear ways of saying when the investigation found no evidence. It conveys the absence of any evidence when, for example, it states the investigation “did not identify evidence” or “did not uncover evidence” that something occurred. Even then, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guid ... collusion/


You've heard of pejury traps, right?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:36 am

SteelChair wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

But he was exactly correct on Russia collusion (lack thereof).

He'll be proven correct again in this case This case is a political calculation, a political move by the democrats. Nothing will come of it. How do all the people trumpeting this "case" have any credibility left at all? Why do people believe them after all the lies they spun on Kavanaugh, the Russia collision case, and the fake dossier? To name just a few.


'Exactly correct' implies 100%. Scientifically, he is only 50% correct as the chance of the campaign being completely absolved in a definitive collusion case remains 50-50. Most of those rejoicing at the Mueller report's lack of conclusions forget the most critical part - multiple witnesses were deceptive or non-cooperative, and this led to significant material omissions. Therefore, we cannot definitively state there were no untoward actions, as the report is written in such a way it contains numerous loose ends:

It is important to keep in mind that the Report’s analysis is about whether or not to prosecute someone for a crime. Furthermore, statements that the investigation “did not establish” something occurred are not the same as saying there was “no evidence” that it occurred. The Report has clear ways of saying when the investigation found no evidence. It conveys the absence of any evidence when, for example, it states the investigation “did not identify evidence” or “did not uncover evidence” that something occurred. Even then, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guid ... collusion/


You've heard of pejury traps, right?


Of course, but that is hardly a substantive response to the legal analysis on justsecurity. And perjury trap would also require definitive evidence, so it is no more conclusive than the Mueller report.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:08 pm

Why submit to legal traps for people who hate you? It's not hard to understand. Especially when they just make stuff up, like when Schiff was reading the transcript last week. Or when MSNBC reporters talk about things that actually happened as "right wing conspiracies." (FBI texting about "backup plan," and " we won't let that happen.")

Trump did release the transcript, which they did not expect, because he had nothing to hide. Their mole had given it to them over a month ago anyway. They've got a plan to keep rolling this stuff out. It's all they've got. Their plan is to just keep applying pressure and to try to find a John Dean who will make stuff up. They thought they had him in Cohen. Oh darn, try again. So much for Congressional leadership. What about progress?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:16 pm

Trump sold out his countrymen to a foreign country using a personal lawyer. That is an impeachable crime. End of story.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... eat-trump/
Conditioning aid on a personal vendetta, on trashing a political rival, is another. Trump does not have the right to deploy the resources of the government — especially with a foreign leader — for his personal political ends. Finally, there is the third scenario, a quid pro quo: If you don’t investigate Biden, you don’t get our money. That is implicit in the July 25 conversation, and explicit, perhaps through the statements of Trump’s agents. The crime is extortion, and plainly impeachable. Consider this: The Mueller investigation found that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election. While the Trump campaign welcomed that interference (“Russia: Are you listening?”) it was not guilty of conspiracy because the organization had not orchestrated it. This time, it has.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:42 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Why submit to legal traps for people who hate you? It's not hard to understand. Especially when they just make stuff up, like when Schiff was reading the transcript last week. Or when MSNBC reporters talk about things that actually happened as "right wing conspiracies." (FBI texting about "backup plan," and " we won't let that happen.")

Trump did release the transcript, which they did not expect, because he had nothing to hide. Their mole had given it to them over a month ago anyway. They've got a plan to keep rolling this stuff out. It's all they've got. Their plan is to just keep applying pressure and to try to find a John Dean who will make stuff up. They thought they had him in Cohen. Oh darn, try again. So much for Congressional leadership. What about progress?


You are conflating numerous things, but that is no surprise. So just to stick to factual stuff here, how is a 12-minute readout of a call timestamped at 30+ minutes transparent? Congressional staffers read out the transcript, allowing possible times for translation (though Zelensky speaks fluent English), came in around 12 minutes, leaving many more remaining that were undocumented. Is there some problem with the other minutes? The release was just part of the overall obfuscation strategy, most likely.

From a conservative source:

On September 23, Trump broadened the critique of the report, claiming that not only did the whistleblower lack firsthand information but he/she didn’t “know the correct facts.”

And then, on September 24, Trump’s story evolved again as he insisted that the full, “unredacted transcript of my phone conversation” would show “NO quid pro quo.” Note the progression from this is Fake News to he doesn’t know what I really said to there was no quid pro quo.


https://thebulwark.com/watch-how-trump- ... n-ukraine/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Why submit to legal traps for people who hate you? It's not hard to understand. Especially when they just make stuff up, like when Schiff was reading the transcript last week. Or when MSNBC reporters talk about things that actually happened as "right wing conspiracies." (FBI texting about "backup plan," and " we won't let that happen.")

Trump did release the transcript, which they did not expect, because he had nothing to hide. Their mole had given it to them over a month ago anyway. They've got a plan to keep rolling this stuff out. It's all they've got. Their plan is to just keep applying pressure and to try to find a John Dean who will make stuff up. They thought they had him in Cohen. Oh darn, try again. So much for Congressional leadership. What about progress?


You are conflating numerous things, but that is no surprise. So just to stick to factual stuff here, how is a 12-minute readout of a call timestamped at 30+ minutes transparent? Congressional staffers read out the transcript, allowing possible times for translation (though Zelensky speaks fluent English), came in around 12 minutes, leaving many more remaining that were undocumented. Is there some problem with the other minutes? The release was just part of the overall obfuscation strategy, most likely.

From a conservative source:

On September 23, Trump broadened the critique of the report, claiming that not only did the whistleblower lack firsthand information but he/she didn’t “know the correct facts.”

And then, on September 24, Trump’s story evolved again as he insisted that the full, “unredacted transcript of my phone conversation” would show “NO quid pro quo.” Note the progression from this is Fake News to he doesn’t know what I really said to there was no quid pro quo.


https://thebulwark.com/watch-how-trump- ... n-ukraine/


I'm conflating? I'm not the one trying to construct a case out of nothing!

Lets face it, Schiff has the entire transcript already. No doubt Brennan and his band of CIA traitors/spies gave it to him a month or more ago. Doesn't that bother you, or are you so blinded by hatred that its ok?

I remember when democrats were the ones worried about civil liberties and CIA/FBI excesses! Why don't they care about what will happen when the roles are reversed?
Last edited by SteelChair on Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:54 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump sold out his countrymen to a foreign country using a personal lawyer. That is an impeachable crime. End of story.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... eat-trump/
Conditioning aid on a personal vendetta, on trashing a political rival, is another. Trump does not have the right to deploy the resources of the government — especially with a foreign leader — for his personal political ends. Finally, there is the third scenario, a quid pro quo: If you don’t investigate Biden, you don’t get our money. That is implicit in the July 25 conversation, and explicit, perhaps through the statements of Trump’s agents. The crime is extortion, and plainly impeachable. Consider this: The Mueller investigation found that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election. While the Trump campaign welcomed that interference (“Russia: Are you listening?”) it was not guilty of conspiracy because the organization had not orchestrated it. This time, it has.


Not according to anyone who isn't blinded by Trump hatred
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:59 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Why submit to legal traps for people who hate you? It's not hard to understand. Especially when they just make stuff up, like when Schiff was reading the transcript last week. Or when MSNBC reporters talk about things that actually happened as "right wing conspiracies." (FBI texting about "backup plan," and " we won't let that happen.")

Trump did release the transcript, which they did not expect, because he had nothing to hide. Their mole had given it to them over a month ago anyway. They've got a plan to keep rolling this stuff out. It's all they've got. Their plan is to just keep applying pressure and to try to find a John Dean who will make stuff up. They thought they had him in Cohen. Oh darn, try again. So much for Congressional leadership. What about progress?


You are conflating numerous things, but that is no surprise. So just to stick to factual stuff here, how is a 12-minute readout of a call timestamped at 30+ minutes transparent? Congressional staffers read out the transcript, allowing possible times for translation (though Zelensky speaks fluent English), came in around 12 minutes, leaving many more remaining that were undocumented. Is there some problem with the other minutes? The release was just part of the overall obfuscation strategy, most likely.

From a conservative source:

On September 23, Trump broadened the critique of the report, claiming that not only did the whistleblower lack firsthand information but he/she didn’t “know the correct facts.”

And then, on September 24, Trump’s story evolved again as he insisted that the full, “unredacted transcript of my phone conversation” would show “NO quid pro quo.” Note the progression from this is Fake News to he doesn’t know what I really said to there was no quid pro quo.


https://thebulwark.com/watch-how-trump- ... n-ukraine/


I'm conflating? I'm not the one trying to construct a case out of nothing!

Lets face it, Schiff has the entire transcript already. No doubt Brennan and his band of CIA traitors/spies gave it to him a month or more ago. Doesn't that bother you, or are you so blinded by hatred that its ok?

I remember when democrats were the ones worried about civil liberties and CIA/FBI excesses! Why don't they care about what will happen when the roles are reversed?


That seems highly unlikely if reports about WH staffers isolating transcripts in a secure fashion are true. Oversight of the executive is not ‘excess’ - unless you think Kushner / Westinghouse / Saudi is totally above board stuff. Happy digging!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:14 pm

SteelChair wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
“There are no felonies, there are no Impeachable offenses. The Constitution’s very clear that you need bribery, treason, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. You can’t be impeached for the conduct that’s been alleged in this case.” Alan Dershowitz (lifelong democrat and Hillary supporter who hasnt sold out to Trump hatred)

Lol Alan Dershowitz, fresh off defending Trump bff Epstein. Try harder.

Your ad hominem atttack is a very weak response. You've succumbed to the character assassination the swamp created recently about Prof Dershowitz, which he is currently successfully fighting.

Try lifelong liberal democrat Harvard law professor Hillary supporter Dershowitz if you want to describe him.

Doesn't it bother you to see how quickly they throw people overboard in order to fit their narrative, truth be damned? He's the only liberal I can think of that has maintained his intellectual integrity somce the Trump election.

There's no ad hominem. He defended Epstein and Weinstein--literally was on their defense teams. Just because Fox finds one democrat poodle to trot out and repeat the corporate line doesn't mean it's not complete horse puckey. Even professional Trump bootlickers Tucker and Hannity know what a mess he's made, with Tucker admitting there's "no way to spin this". Republicans can't even get their story straight, because Trump keeps copping to everything with Giuliani barking around like a senile lunatic, further confirming everything. But ask yourself this, with all of Trump and his relations scamming all over the world, would you want a Democratic President to ask countries to go after them out of a personal vendetta? Would you defend that?
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:16 pm

SteelChair wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump sold out his countrymen to a foreign country using a personal lawyer. That is an impeachable crime. End of story.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... eat-trump/
Conditioning aid on a personal vendetta, on trashing a political rival, is another. Trump does not have the right to deploy the resources of the government — especially with a foreign leader — for his personal political ends. Finally, there is the third scenario, a quid pro quo: If you don’t investigate Biden, you don’t get our money. That is implicit in the July 25 conversation, and explicit, perhaps through the statements of Trump’s agents. The crime is extortion, and plainly impeachable. Consider this: The Mueller investigation found that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election. While the Trump campaign welcomed that interference (“Russia: Are you listening?”) it was not guilty of conspiracy because the organization had not orchestrated it. This time, it has.


Not according to anyone who isn't blinded by Trump hatred


Have anything of intelligence to refute the argument? Or do you just ignore the law when your cult leader is found breaking it.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:24 pm

casinterest wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump sold out his countrymen to a foreign country using a personal lawyer. That is an impeachable crime. End of story.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... eat-trump/


Not according to anyone who isn't blinded by Trump hatred


Have anything of intelligence to refute the argument? Or do you just ignore the law when your cult leader is found breaking it.


Cult? Bwhaaa!

If laws were broken, there would be a real impeachment. There wasn't, so there isn't. Deal with those facts.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:28 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Lol Alan Dershowitz, fresh off defending Trump bff Epstein. Try harder.

Your ad hominem atttack is a very weak response. You've succumbed to the character assassination the swamp created recently about Prof Dershowitz, which he is currently successfully fighting.

Try lifelong liberal democrat Harvard law professor Hillary supporter Dershowitz if you want to describe him.

Doesn't it bother you to see how quickly they throw people overboard in order to fit their narrative, truth be damned? He's the only liberal I can think of that has maintained his intellectual integrity somce the Trump election.

There's no ad hominem. He defended Epstein and Weinstein--literally was on their defense teams. Just because Fox finds one democrat poodle to trot out and repeat the corporate line doesn't mean it's not complete horse puckey. Even professional Trump bootlickers Tucker and Hannity know what a mess he's made, with Tucker admitting there's "no way to spin this". Republicans can't even get their story straight, because Trump keeps copping to everything with Giuliani barking around like a senile lunatic, further confirming everything. But ask yourself this, with all of Trump and his relations scamming all over the world, would you want a Democratic President to ask countries to go after them out of a personal vendetta? Would you defend that?


You say no ad hominem and then resort to terms like bootlickers and senile lunatic. Very convincing.

And Biden ACTUALLY DID things worse than what Trump is accused of doing, so there's that. No, I don't approve of what Biden did. Nor do I approve of the Clinton Global Initiative shake downs to the tune of, what was it, $300 million?
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:34 pm

SteelChair wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Your ad hominem atttack is a very weak response. You've succumbed to the character assassination the swamp created recently about Prof Dershowitz, which he is currently successfully fighting.

Try lifelong liberal democrat Harvard law professor Hillary supporter Dershowitz if you want to describe him.

Doesn't it bother you to see how quickly they throw people overboard in order to fit their narrative, truth be damned? He's the only liberal I can think of that has maintained his intellectual integrity somce the Trump election.

There's no ad hominem. He defended Epstein and Weinstein--literally was on their defense teams. Just because Fox finds one democrat poodle to trot out and repeat the corporate line doesn't mean it's not complete horse puckey. Even professional Trump bootlickers Tucker and Hannity know what a mess he's made, with Tucker admitting there's "no way to spin this". Republicans can't even get their story straight, because Trump keeps copping to everything with Giuliani barking around like a senile lunatic, further confirming everything. But ask yourself this, with all of Trump and his relations scamming all over the world, would you want a Democratic President to ask countries to go after them out of a personal vendetta? Would you defend that?


You say no ad hominem and then resort to terms like bootlickers and senile lunatic. Very convincing.

And Biden ACTUALLY DID things worse than what Trump is accused of doing, so there's that. No, I don't approve of what Biden did. Nor do I approve of the Clinton Global Initiative shake downs to the tune of, what was it, $300 million?


What did Biden do that was worse? His son sat on the board of a gas company. Eric, Junior, and Ivanka travel the world on our dime doing business. Ivanka got how many patents from the Chinese when daddy threw money at Chinese mobile phone company ZTE? But, yeah, the Ukrainian parliament kicking out a corrupt investigator while Hunter Biden sat on the board of a gas company is totally worse.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:35 pm

SteelChair wrote:
casinterest wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

Not according to anyone who isn't blinded by Trump hatred


Have anything of intelligence to refute the argument? Or do you just ignore the law when your cult leader is found breaking it.


Cult? Bwhaaa!

If laws were broken, there would be a real impeachment. There wasn't, so there isn't. Deal with those facts.


If laws weren't broken, why has Trump hired Gowdy, and why has he stopped cooperating with Constitutional oversight by Congress? Deal with those facts. Go back to your swamp waters and see what other items that they can come up with.

Also ask the GOP spin machine why we need a "real impeachment vote"? Remember the GOP voted to take away the ability to issue subpoenas over Benghazi to chairmen of committees:?

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/ ... les-115068

Hurts when short sighted laws by incompetent sycophants comes back to haunt the GOP. Perhaps you should go talk to Trey Gowdy or Paul Ryan, about why we don't need a "Real Impeachment Vote" anymore.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:27 pm

SteelChair wrote:
You say no ad hominem and then resort to terms like bootlickers and senile lunatic.

No ad hominem to Dershowitz. The rest are what I said they are. Would you hire Giuliani?

SteelChair wrote:
And Biden ACTUALLY DID things worse than what Trump is accused of doing, so there's that.

*BZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Wrong. If you think what Biden did was "worse" then I can assume you are either one day old, or have no idea how the US government works.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BravoOne
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:51 pm

BN747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
It’s completely legal for the President to see that laws are faithfully executed. Asking a foreign official to assist a US investigation is not illegal.

Hunter Biden is such a prince, too. After all, any American discharged from the military for cocaine abuse and with zero knowledge of the oil industry should expect to get a $50,000 a MONTH job with a foreign entity. Dad being VP had nothing to do with it.

I hope Barr and Durham gets the bottom of the sludge that inhabits DC before the CIA does them or the President in.


President Trump is using his executive power to interfere in private business decisions of a political opponent. If you think that is ok, then you must be a Socialist Commie.


I think most people watching a kid being beaten by a much much larger kid...would not approve of such and unevenly match of this kind, or were it two men, one much smaller than the other.

Russia is the menacing bully in this case.

Ukraine is the bully's victim...they are trying so hard to pull away from a Russian influenced past and align itself with the west and wants join NATO (added security).

Ukraine on the ropes (esp. after losing their Crimea region had deal with the likes of Paul Manafort undermining their gov't for Putin)..is being told by America's Liar-in-Chief, 'we can help if you do us favor'.

US Congressional appropriated funds to assist a nation in need of protection...should never be used this way for personal political gain.

That's extortion...period.

America has gone from the vanguard of freedom loving nations to a snake mentality of 'well...what are you gonna do for us er-ME' nation.

That trend sets in motion for other countries openly to begin acting the same way with one another...and there's no turning back once down that path.

Stop this criminal mindset now...before it's too late.


BN747


To late for what?
 
BN747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:59 pm

BravoOne wrote:
BN747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

President Trump is using his executive power to interfere in private business decisions of a political opponent. If you think that is ok, then you must be a Socialist Commie.


I think most people watching a kid being beaten by a much much larger kid...would not approve of such and unevenly match of this kind, or were it two men, one much smaller than the other.

Russia is the menacing bully in this case.

Ukraine is the bully's victim...they are trying so hard to pull away from a Russian influenced past and align itself with the west and wants join NATO (added security).

Ukraine on the ropes (esp. after losing their Crimea region had deal with the likes of Paul Manafort undermining their gov't for Putin)..is being told by America's Liar-in-Chief, 'we can help if you do us favor'.

US Congressional appropriated funds to assist a nation in need of protection...should never be used this way for personal political gain.

That's extortion...period.

America has gone from the vanguard of freedom loving nations to a snake mentality of 'well...what are you gonna do for us er-ME' nation.

That trend sets in motion for other countries openly to begin acting the same way with one another...and there's no turning back once down that path.

Stop this criminal mindset now...before it's too late.


BN747


To late for what?



What do you think?

It's all there for all to see...what are not 'getting'?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:02 pm

Here is the original whistle blower complaint.
Amazing how well it captures what was in the hard copy. The second hand info was right on point.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-whistl ... exclusive/

Why would White house lawyers freak out if this was a "perfect call" ?
The official described the call as "crazy," "frightening" and "completely lacking in substance related to national security." The official asserted that the President used the call to persuade Ukrainian authorities to investigate his political rivals, chiefly former Vice President Biden and his son, Hunter. The official stated that there was already a conversation underway with White House lawyers about how to handle the discussion because, in the official's view, the President had clearly committed a criminal act by urging a foreign power to investigate a U.S. person for the purposes of advancing his own reelection bid in 2020.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:36 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Nor do I approve of the Clinton Global Initiative shake downs to the tune of, what was it, $300 million?

Good for you. I'm sure a congressional investigation is forthcoming. :rotfl: Much better to run a sham university, charity, or pyramid scheme like Trump.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:50 pm

Interestingly. Some of Giuliani's Business Partners have been arrested for campaign finance violations.

Same ones that are being asked to appear before the house investigative committee for the impeachment of Trump. Wonder what Rudy and his Eastern European born partners were up to?


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... s-n1064606
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine’s President to Investigate Biden’s Son

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:53 pm

SteelChair wrote:
casinterest wrote:
SteelChair wrote:

Not according to anyone who isn't blinded by Trump hatred


Have anything of intelligence to refute the argument? Or do you just ignore the law when your cult leader is found breaking it.


Cult? Bwhaaa!

If laws were broken, there would be a real impeachment. There wasn't, so there isn't. Deal with those facts.


That is not a requirement at all. You can't just pretend Article I and the Federalist papers don't exist, and just make 'new facts'. Alexander Hamilton explained rather clearly that impeachment may be just as much about political 'crimes' or 'crimes' upon public trust as crimes against law on the books.

You probably think a vote is required in the House just to hold an impeachment inquiry.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
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