alfa164 wrote:MSPNWA wrote:Now my turn. Do you believe it's acceptable for a sitting Vice President to engage in a quid pro quo for a personal reason? Do you believe it's acceptable to fail to investigate that known potential act?
It would not be acceptable - and, in the case you are trying to make, it never happened. Claiming a "quid pro quo for a personal reason" may be a talking point in the far-right media, but it is not supported by facts or evidence. To wit:
The statements from Ukrainian officials - and the the co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center - who agree that there was no investigation proceeding when Shokin was fired. To wit:
His successor has said that no evidence of any wrongdoing exists in connection with Hunter Biden's role at Burisma. Another former official said that an investigation was opened into the company but was long dormant by the time the US pushed for his exit. And Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center told the Washington Post that 'Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation.'"
Bloomberg and the AP back that up:
"Ukraine’s current prosecutor, Yuriy Lutsenko, was quoted by Bloomberg News in May as saying he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Biden or his son. Bloomberg also reported that the investigation into Burisma was dormant at the time Biden pressed for Shokhin’s ouster."
...and does a synopsis of the events and how they happened:
"(1) Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, did take consulting work for a Ukrainian oil company, Burisma, that was under investigation by a Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, for the work under the prior Russian-allied regime. This is where the true part of the Trump disinformation comes to an end.
(2) The problem was that Shokin actively stood in the way of international investigations that the U.S. and other democratic reformers were pursuing.
(3) Vice President Biden, U.S. diplomats, and our E.U. allies all called on the prosecutor to be fired so the corrupt oligarchs could be investigated MORE AGGRESSIVELY. This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."
and their point 5 should be well taken:
(5) For the kids in the back:
PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO INTERFERE ON YOUR BEHALF IN DOMESTIC ELECTIONS = VERY BAD.
PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO INVESTIGATE CROOKS = GOOD.
So... who should we believe? The Ukrainian prosecutor... the co-founder of their anti-corruption organization... Bloomberg and the AP... and every other credible witness to the events.... or...
... some far-right talking point? It isn't a tough call....Aaron747 wrote:The bigger problem is why psychologically it’s so difficult for 45 sycophants to admit they backed a lemon. Many independents did on 44, including myself. Is wounded pride really a higher priority than a solid reputation for the nation?
Unfortunately, that does seem to be a tough call for the Trump lemmings...
Might want to re-think your talking points. It was just broke that the prosecutor that was fired was directed to back off his probe of the company linked to Hunter Biden...
This is not going to end well for Joe Biden, especially since he was caught on camera bragging about his actions with Ukraine...but the lemmings here will say it’s some right wing conspiracy, the same way they did when Obama promised Putin more leeway following his re-election.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukrain ... ment-files