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LittleSprocket
Posts: 262
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:56 am

Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:25 am

alfa164 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Now my turn. Do you believe it's acceptable for a sitting Vice President to engage in a quid pro quo for a personal reason? Do you believe it's acceptable to fail to investigate that known potential act?


It would not be acceptable - and, in the case you are trying to make, it never happened. Claiming a "quid pro quo for a personal reason" may be a talking point in the far-right media, but it is not supported by facts or evidence. To wit:

The statements from Ukrainian officials - and the the co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center - who agree that there was no investigation proceeding when Shokin was fired. To wit:

His successor has said that no evidence of any wrongdoing exists in connection with Hunter Biden's role at Burisma. Another former official said that an investigation was opened into the company but was long dormant by the time the US pushed for his exit. And Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center told the Washington Post that 'Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation.'"

(Emphasis added)

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hayesbrown/trump-ukraine-biden-giuliani-whistleblower-explain


Bloomberg and the AP back that up:


"Ukraine’s current prosecutor, Yuriy Lutsenko, was quoted by Bloomberg News in May as saying he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Biden or his son. Bloomberg also reported that the investigation into Burisma was dormant at the time Biden pressed for Shokhin’s ouster."

https://www.apnews.com/9d4595ba4f3140c6bb6a3473a91f4a4c


...and does a synopsis of the events and how they happened:


"(1) Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, did take consulting work for a Ukrainian oil company, Burisma, that was under investigation by a Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, for the work under the prior Russian-allied regime. This is where the true part of the Trump disinformation comes to an end.
(2) The problem was that Shokin actively stood in the way of international investigations that the U.S. and other democratic reformers were pursuing.
(3) Vice President Biden, U.S. diplomats, and our E.U. allies all called on the prosecutor to be fired so the corrupt oligarchs could be investigated MORE AGGRESSIVELY. This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."


https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-the-nonsense-trump-biden-ukraine-false-equivalency/

and their point 5 should be well taken:


(5) For the kids in the back:

PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO INTERFERE ON YOUR BEHALF IN DOMESTIC ELECTIONS = VERY BAD.

PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO INVESTIGATE CROOKS = GOOD.



So... who should we believe? The Ukrainian prosecutor... the co-founder of their anti-corruption organization... Bloomberg and the AP... and every other credible witness to the events.... or...

... some far-right talking point? It isn't a tough call....

Aaron747 wrote:
The bigger problem is why psychologically it’s so difficult for 45 sycophants to admit they backed a lemon. Many independents did on 44, including myself. Is wounded pride really a higher priority than a solid reputation for the nation?


Unfortunately, that does seem to be a tough call for the Trump lemmings...

:roll:


Might want to re-think your talking points. It was just broke that the prosecutor that was fired was directed to back off his probe of the company linked to Hunter Biden...

This is not going to end well for Joe Biden, especially since he was caught on camera bragging about his actions with Ukraine...but the lemmings here will say it’s some right wing conspiracy, the same way they did when Obama promised Putin more leeway following his re-election.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukrain ... ment-files
 
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seb146
Posts: 20723
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:41 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Now my turn. Do you believe it's acceptable for a sitting Vice President to engage in a quid pro quo for a personal reason? Do you believe it's acceptable to fail to investigate that known potential act?


It would not be acceptable - and, in the case you are trying to make, it never happened. Claiming a "quid pro quo for a personal reason" may be a talking point in the far-right media, but it is not supported by facts or evidence. To wit:

The statements from Ukrainian officials - and the the co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center - who agree that there was no investigation proceeding when Shokin was fired. To wit:

His successor has said that no evidence of any wrongdoing exists in connection with Hunter Biden's role at Burisma. Another former official said that an investigation was opened into the company but was long dormant by the time the US pushed for his exit. And Daria Kaleniuk, co-founder of the Ukrainian Anti-Corruption Action Center told the Washington Post that 'Shokin was fired not because he wanted to do that investigation, but quite to the contrary, because he failed that investigation.'"

(Emphasis added)

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hayesbrown/trump-ukraine-biden-giuliani-whistleblower-explain


Bloomberg and the AP back that up:


"Ukraine’s current prosecutor, Yuriy Lutsenko, was quoted by Bloomberg News in May as saying he had no evidence of wrongdoing by Biden or his son. Bloomberg also reported that the investigation into Burisma was dormant at the time Biden pressed for Shokhin’s ouster."

https://www.apnews.com/9d4595ba4f3140c6bb6a3473a91f4a4c


...and does a synopsis of the events and how they happened:


"(1) Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, did take consulting work for a Ukrainian oil company, Burisma, that was under investigation by a Ukrainian prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, for the work under the prior Russian-allied regime. This is where the true part of the Trump disinformation comes to an end.
(2) The problem was that Shokin actively stood in the way of international investigations that the U.S. and other democratic reformers were pursuing.
(3) Vice President Biden, U.S. diplomats, and our E.U. allies all called on the prosecutor to be fired so the corrupt oligarchs could be investigated MORE AGGRESSIVELY. This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."


https://thebulwark.com/truth-lies-and-the-nonsense-trump-biden-ukraine-false-equivalency/

and their point 5 should be well taken:


(5) For the kids in the back:

PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO INTERFERE ON YOUR BEHALF IN DOMESTIC ELECTIONS = VERY BAD.

PRESSURING A FOREIGN GOVERNMENT TO INVESTIGATE CROOKS = GOOD.



So... who should we believe? The Ukrainian prosecutor... the co-founder of their anti-corruption organization... Bloomberg and the AP... and every other credible witness to the events.... or...

... some far-right talking point? It isn't a tough call....

Aaron747 wrote:
The bigger problem is why psychologically it’s so difficult for 45 sycophants to admit they backed a lemon. Many independents did on 44, including myself. Is wounded pride really a higher priority than a solid reputation for the nation?


Unfortunately, that does seem to be a tough call for the Trump lemmings...

:roll:


Might want to re-think your talking points. It was just broke that the prosecutor that was fired was directed to back off his probe of the company linked to Hunter Biden...

This is not going to end well for Joe Biden, especially since he was caught on camera bragging about his actions with Ukraine...but the lemmings here will say it’s some right wing conspiracy, the same way they did when Obama promised Putin more leeway following his re-election.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukrain ... ment-files


The prosecutor who was fired by the Ukrainian parliament? He was interviewed in private by Giulianni and allegedly said it during that private interview that we only have notes for.

Thank you, next.
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Aaron747
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:54 am

Plain-spoken commentary here from Reagan staffer Linda Chavez. I have to agree that the larger issue is not just POTUS himself, but the manner in which this WH embodies self-dealing and obfuscation in service to its self destructive chief.

As I and countless other conservative Never Trumpers have argued since Trump became the Republican nominee in 2016, character matters. The voters gambled that despite his low character, Trump might even grow into his office. That has not happened. Instead, Trump has corrupted virtually everyone around him. Those who resisted full corruption (even if succumbing at some level) are gone: H.R. McMaster, Rex Tillerson, John Kelly, Jeff Sessions, John Bolton, Don McGahn, to name just a few. Sycophants on the Hill—chief among them Sen. Lindsey Graham—defend Trump’s every lawless, norm-shattering move...

Honorable public servants should not remain silent in the face of the president’s corruption, much less take to spouting White House disinformation in order to defend clearly unethical self-dealing and abuse of power....When a president is as reckless and lawless as Donald Trump, true patriots have no choice but to speak out.


https://thebulwark.com/this-is-not-the- ... in-silent/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9289
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:20 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Plain-spoken commentary here from Reagan staffer Linda Chavez. I have to agree that the larger issue is not just POTUS himself, but the manner in which this WH embodies self-dealing and obfuscation in service to its self destructive chief.

As I and countless other conservative Never Trumpers have argued since Trump became the Republican nominee in 2016, character matters. The voters gambled that despite his low character, Trump might even grow into his office. That has not happened. Instead, Trump has corrupted virtually everyone around him. Those who resisted full corruption (even if succumbing at some level) are gone: H.R. McMaster, Rex Tillerson, John Kelly, Jeff Sessions, John Bolton, Don McGahn, to name just a few. Sycophants on the Hill—chief among them Sen. Lindsey Graham—defend Trump’s every lawless, norm-shattering move...

Honorable public servants should not remain silent in the face of the president’s corruption, much less take to spouting White House disinformation in order to defend clearly unethical self-dealing and abuse of power....When a president is as reckless and lawless as Donald Trump, true patriots have no choice but to speak out.


https://thebulwark.com/this-is-not-the- ... in-silent/


Well said.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:57 pm

Even Fox news legal analysts think Trump committed an impeachable offense.

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/4642 ... iminal-and

"He held up that aid and instead asked for a favor, which arguably was for his political campaign," Napolitano says. "That was a violation of federal law. That is an impeachable offense."

Trump has denied holding up military aid to Ukraine as part of an effort to persuade the nation into investigating the Biden family. But Napolitano asserts that Trump's request for a "favor" is evidence of a quid pro quo.

"In the Zelensky phone call, he told the Ukrainian president that he needed a personal 'favor,'" Napolitano writes in the column. "The clear unmistakable inference is that the $391 million in aid would be held up until the favor was delivered. The favor he sought was dirt on Biden."
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727LOVER
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:49 pm

QUESTION

Since no president has ever been found guilty by the Senate, and I doubt it'll happen here (unless the vote is in secret)...

...what exactly happens if one IS found guilty? Is he escorted out by armed guards? Does he have until 12 noon the next day? What's the time frame?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:15 pm

727LOVER wrote:
QUESTION

Since no president has ever been found guilty by the Senate, and I doubt it'll happen here (unless the vote is in secret)...

...what exactly happens if one IS found guilty? Is he escorted out by armed guards? Does he have until 12 noon the next day? What's the time frame?


Removal from Office is the only goal of the trial. Once voted out, he or she would be expected to leave and the powers of succession would take over. If they don't leave, then action would take place.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:29 pm

727LOVER wrote:
casinterest wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
QUESTION

Since no president has ever been found guilty by the Senate, and I doubt it'll happen here (unless the vote is in secret)...

...what exactly happens if one IS found guilty? Is he escorted out by armed guards? Does he have until 12 noon the next day? What's the time frame?


Removal from Office is the only goal of the trial. Once voted out, he or she would be expected to leave and the powers of succession would take over. If they don't leave, then action would take place.


SOOOOOOO.....

Image


I don't think we will ever get to that point. Trump will resign, or (infinitely more likely) the Senate will table the issue during the election, if the house votes to impeach.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:46 pm

casinterest wrote:
I don't think we will ever get to that point. Trump will resign, or (infinitely more likely) the Senate will table the issue during the election, if the house votes to impeach.

It does beg the following question: if articles of impeachment are filed and the Senate doesn't take action and Trump somehow is reelected, will the impeachment carry over to the next Congress? If the House switches parties, can they retract the articles or once filed they remain until the Senate takes action or the occupant is no longer in office?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3437
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:00 pm

Meanwhile, as the House enjoys its recess, we can answer the topic question: "NO"

It's like the boy who cried wolf. The word is now just a political stunt for election interference. Oh the hypocrisy.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9289
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:03 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I don't think we will ever get to that point. Trump will resign, or (infinitely more likely) the Senate will table the issue during the election, if the house votes to impeach.

It does beg the following question: if articles of impeachment are filed and the Senate doesn't take action and Trump somehow is reelected, will the impeachment carry over to the next Congress? If the House switches parties, can they retract the articles or once filed they remain until the Senate takes action or the occupant is no longer in office?


Possibly.

just because the GOP would let him Murder a person on fifth avenue doesn't mean the sane world would.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
bgm
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:40 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Meanwhile, as the House enjoys its recess, we can answer the topic question: "NO"

It's like the boy who cried wolf. The word is now just a political stunt for election interference. Oh the hypocrisy.


Wrong. Trump committed a impeachable offense, and even did it on camera this time. Sorry, your nothingburgers aren't going to work this time! :wave:
████ ███ █ ███████ ██ █ █████ ██ ████ [redacted]
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:24 pm

bgm wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Meanwhile, as the House enjoys its recess, we can answer the topic question: "NO"

It's like the boy who cried wolf. The word is now just a political stunt for election interference. Oh the hypocrisy.


Wrong. Trump committed a impeachable offense, and even did it on camera this time. Sorry, your nothingburgers aren't going to work this time! :wave:


It’s the only item on the menu now at Failed Patriots.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:19 am

Trump commits impeachable offenses three times a day, and he will slither out of this situation as well. All Dems need to do is stay focused on their agenda so supporters are energized enough to show up on election day.

Impeachment process solidifies Trump's base and all this noise makes democratic voters stay home thinking win is a slam dunk.

Mrs.Pelosi knows this very well, resisted so far but looks like she is also following CNN into this rabbit hole.

Dems goal should be to win the 2020 presidency, nothing else.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:51 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Trump commits impeachable offenses three times a day, and he will slither out of this situation as well. All Dems need to do is stay focused on their agenda so supporters are energized enough to show up on election day.

Impeachment process solidifies Trump's base and all this noise makes democratic voters stay home thinking win is a slam dunk.

Mrs.Pelosi knows this very well, resisted so far but looks like she is also following CNN into this rabbit hole.

Dems goal should be to win the 2020 presidency, nothing else.


You can't stay focused on an Agenda. You are assuming their are rational people in the GOP. They take a lie from their news sources, run with it, and then when it falls flat, they find a new lie. These people wast so much time running from the Truth, that they should be tired or drop dead from exhaustion.
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seb146
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:21 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Meanwhile, as the House enjoys its recess, we can answer the topic question: "NO"

It's like the boy who cried wolf. The word is now just a political stunt for election interference. Oh the hypocrisy.


Republicans had the "Democrats just want him removed from office" and "Democrats want a redo of the election" narrative since November 2016. None of that is true but, because that is the Republican narrative, people believe it. Repeat something enough times and it becomes the truth, no matter how far fetched the story. Russian interference was talked about during the 2016 campaign. When actual moral and good candidates were still running. We all heard it, we all knew it, we all read about it. Republicans didn't care about it until it looked like the current occupant of the White House was involved. Then, we heard the screams and cries of "libs just want a do-over" and such.

Understand that we would not be where we are today if Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Nikki Haley were president.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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johnboy
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:15 am

Look for some big Republican names to not only come out against Trump, but demand resignations across the board from Pence, Bart, Pompeo, etc.

It’s getting real, folks.
 
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DL717
Posts: 1736
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:52 am

727LOVER wrote:
QUESTION

Since no president has ever been found guilty by the Senate, and I doubt it'll happen here (unless the vote is in secret)...

...what exactly happens if one IS found guilty? Is he escorted out by armed guards? Does he have until 12 noon the next day? What's the time frame?


If he’s impeached, he’ll leave office as quickly as Clinton did. Then he’ll win re-election because the left was so hard headed and stupid. The people will cry on election night and we’ll have four more years of the children stomping their feet saying life isn’t fair.

johnboy wrote:
Look for some big Republican names to not only come out against Trump, but demand resignations across the board from Pence, Bart, Pompeo, etc.

It’s getting real, folks.


Election season is coming. Full court press by the spoon fed leftist media. As some one once said “Do it!”

Please do. I want to see more tears on election night. It’s like Christmas morning.
Last edited by DL717 on Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cactus798
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:53 am

As a European living in the States I look at US politics with bewilderment and frankly shock. It is such a snakepit where the countries' interest has long been forgotten and special (business) interests, corruption and nepotism are rampant. This is on both sides (why are there only two sides, why doesn't the most popular vote win?). It is not normal that a family member of a previous president has a good shot at becoming a next president (Hillary, GWB, Jeb) or that a VP's son gets a 50k a month salary to sit on a board of a shady Ukrainian firm with a no relevant qualification whatsoever. But these things are generally accepted...

It amazes me that nobody officially connects the dots on Putins asymmetrical warfare strategy of weakening western institutions and alliances by inciting polarization, whether it is Trump in the US, the brexiteers in the UK, the FPO in Austria or the lega nord in Italy etc etc. He probably supports Bernie or AOC as well just to increase polarization :shock: .

I don't know whether the russians just thought that supporting Trump would wreck the US and western alliances because they saw that Trump is an shortsighted idiot with mental problems, or that they can actively steer him because without the support of Russian Oligarchs that guarantee Trumps Deutsche bank loans he would be bankrupt. Either way, Trump is good for Putin, and impeachment is good for Putin.

Anyway, my fear is that congress indeed impeaches Trump, and that then the senate just says no. What then? It seems to me that a lot of these processes are just honor and integrity based and that there is no enforcement short of a coup and civil war. Mitch and Trump can just say we interpret things differently and stay put. Then there is a 30% trump fanbase (coal miner what has an ruthless 'business man ever done for you?), add in some gerrymandering and a spread out non-focussed opposition party and voila, another 4 years of mayhem.

I'm not positive about the future in the US, nor in Europe.
 
afcjets
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:03 am

Unfortunately I don't think impeachment is going to happen. Trump said they will have to vote on impeachment if they want the subpoenaed documents. Democrats don't want that because a real impeachment would mean Trump can defend himself and subpoena witnesses too, and Democrats don't want that. They want it one sided because they don't want the truth to be revealed to the masses.
 
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seb146
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:04 am

DL717 wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
QUESTION

Since no president has ever been found guilty by the Senate, and I doubt it'll happen here (unless the vote is in secret)...

...what exactly happens if one IS found guilty? Is he escorted out by armed guards? Does he have until 12 noon the next day? What's the time frame?


If he’s impeached, he’ll leave office as quickly as Clinton did. Then he’ll win re-election because the left was so hard headed and stupid. The people will cry on election night and we’ll have four more years of the children stomping their feet saying life isn’t fair.

johnboy wrote:
Look for some big Republican names to not only come out against Trump, but demand resignations across the board from Pence, Bart, Pompeo, etc.

It’s getting real, folks.


Election season is coming. Full court press by the spoon fed leftist media. As some one once said “Do it!”

Please do. I want to see more tears on election night. It’s like Christmas morning.


Former presidential candidate Mitt Romney is sounding like he wants to run

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/politics ... index.html

Ben Sass, Joe Walsh, Bill Weld, and Mark Sanford are also coming out as the better alternative. Susan Collins is hinting at supporting removing him from office.

Conservative tears taste so good! Republican Civil War! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! ;)
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DL717
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:06 am

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
QUESTION

Since no president has ever been found guilty by the Senate, and I doubt it'll happen here (unless the vote is in secret)...

...what exactly happens if one IS found guilty? Is he escorted out by armed guards? Does he have until 12 noon the next day? What's the time frame?


If he’s impeached, he’ll leave office as quickly as Clinton did. Then he’ll win re-election because the left was so hard headed and stupid. The people will cry on election night and we’ll have four more years of the children stomping their feet saying life isn’t fair.

johnboy wrote:
Look for some big Republican names to not only come out against Trump, but demand resignations across the board from Pence, Bart, Pompeo, etc.

It’s getting real, folks.


Election season is coming. Full court press by the spoon fed leftist media. As some one once said “Do it!”

Please do. I want to see more tears on election night. It’s like Christmas morning.


Former presidential candidate Mitt Romney is sounding like he wants to run

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/politics ... index.html

Ben Sass, Joe Walsh, Bill Weld, and Mark Sanford are also coming out as the better alternative. Susan Collins is hinting at supporting removing him from office.

Conservative tears taste so good! Republican Civil War! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! ;)


Romney, the guy that went on national tv and made a fool of himself? That Romney? LOL
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seb146
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:06 am

afcjets wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think impeachment is going to happen. Trump said they will have to vote on impeachment if they want the subpoenaed documents. Democrats don't want that because a real impeachment would mean Trump can defend himself and subpoena witnesses too, and Democrats don't want that. They want it one sided because they don't want the truth to be revealed to the masses.


You are quoting a man who does not know nor does he care about the Constitution or the rule of law. Keep that in mind going through this legal proceeding. Just because he says something on twitter does not make it legal.
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DL717
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:10 am

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think impeachment is going to happen. Trump said they will have to vote on impeachment if they want the subpoenaed documents. Democrats don't want that because a real impeachment would mean Trump can defend himself and subpoena witnesses too, and Democrats don't want that. They want it one sided because they don't want the truth to be revealed to the masses.


You are quoting a man who does not know nor does he care about the Constitution or the rule of law. Keep that in mind going throughp this legal proceeding. Just because he says something on twitter does not make it legal.


And just because you proclaim something about someone does not make it true.
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Aaron747
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:13 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think impeachment is going to happen. Trump said they will have to vote on impeachment if they want the subpoenaed documents. Democrats don't want that because a real impeachment would mean Trump can defend himself and subpoena witnesses too, and Democrats don't want that. They want it one sided because they don't want the truth to be revealed to the masses.


You are quoting a man who does not know nor does he care about the Constitution or the rule of law. Keep that in mind going throughp this legal proceeding. Just because he says something on twitter does not make it legal.


And just because you proclaim something about someone does not make it true.


Just because you proclaim someone is above board does not mean we can't see reality with our own eyes.
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Aaron747
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:15 pm

DL717 wrote:
727LOVER wrote:
QUESTION

Since no president has ever been found guilty by the Senate, and I doubt it'll happen here (unless the vote is in secret)...

...what exactly happens if one IS found guilty? Is he escorted out by armed guards? Does he have until 12 noon the next day? What's the time frame?


If he’s impeached, he’ll leave office as quickly as Clinton did. Then he’ll win re-election because the left was so hard headed and stupid. The people will cry on election night and we’ll have four more years of the children stomping their feet saying life isn’t fair.

johnboy wrote:
Look for some big Republican names to not only come out against Trump, but demand resignations across the board from Pence, Bart, Pompeo, etc.

It’s getting real, folks.


Election season is coming. Full court press by the spoon fed leftist media. As some one once said “Do it!”

Please do. I want to see more tears on election night. It’s like Christmas morning.


I think you forgot 125 million Americans live in the largest 25 (mostly blue) metropolitan areas, including their suburbs - most of which are up for grabs. The longer this goes on, the more the suburbs are in play, particularly women - who are fed up with the exhausting daily drama. It won't even be about policy - it will be to make the Trump show end. The trend lines for independents are not going the Trump campaign's way either.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:41 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Unfortunately I don't think impeachment is going to happen. Trump said they will have to vote on impeachment if they want the subpoenaed documents. Democrats don't want that because a real impeachment would mean Trump can defend himself and subpoena witnesses too, and Democrats don't want that. They want it one sided because they don't want the truth to be revealed to the masses.


You are quoting a man who does not know nor does he care about the Constitution or the rule of law. Keep that in mind going throughp this legal proceeding. Just because he says something on twitter does not make it legal.


And just because you proclaim something about someone does not make it true.


He has said, in front of the press, We The People, and God Almighty, that he would accept any information any foreign government has on a political opponent WHICH IS ILLEGAL under American law. There is also no evidence that he has separated himself from his businesses which must be done under Article 1 Section 9 of THE CONSTITUTION. Jimmy Carter was forced to sell his peanut farm so he would not be in possible conflict of the Emoluments Clause.

I could go on about how he is stacking the courts against minorities and LGBTQ but that is off topic.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Ken777
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:47 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:


(3) Vice President Biden, U.S. diplomats, and our E.U. allies all called on the prosecutor to be fired so the corrupt oligarchs could be investigated MORE AGGRESSIVELY. This includes the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine calling out by name Mykola Zlochevsky, the oligarch who ran the company Hunter Biden worked for, as someone this prosecutor was letting off the hook."

Might want to re-think your talking points. It was just broke that the prosecutor that was fired was directed to back off his probe of the company linked to Hunter Biden...

This is not going to end well for Joe Biden, especially since he was caught on camera bragging about his actions with Ukraine...but the lemmings here will say it’s some right wing conspiracy, the same way they did when Obama promised Putin more leeway following his re-election.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ukrain ... ment-files


Pretty clear that European leaders as well as Obama/Biden were against the prosecutor. Trump's obsessive brain doesn't understand that, but then he has a few decades of buying & using hair spray by the case. That's his own special drug.

The "Attack Joe" looks to me the Trump is also panicking, especially with the Impeachment heading his way.nn He doesn't worry about the Senate going against him as he is an expert at bullying GOP Senators and they are afraid of actually convicting him.

What Trump IS afraid of is the long lost of evidence for post-presidency trials. The House can obtain tax return s as well as business records. His own lawyer has testified about Trumps bank fraud and insurance fraud.

And before you use Fox News as a reference understand that most Americans won't trust them. They have 2 or 3 genuine journalists and the rest are Trump Puppets.
 
KFTG
Posts: 182
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:42 pm

2nd whistleblower now.
 
afcjets
Posts: 2899
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:51 pm

There will be more. Each one carefully planned to keep the news cycle going, yet no impeachment to prevent due process.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:55 pm

afcjets wrote:
There will be more. Each one carefully planned to keep the news cycle going, yet no impeachment to prevent due process.


Evidence for such a claim? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:10 pm

Trump is in deep trouble now. The GOP is starting to jump ship.
He is throwing allies of convenience to the wolves. How long till the rest of the GOP realizes they are all expendable under Trump?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump- ... t-n1062931
"Donald Trump told House Republicans Friday that he was urged by Energy Secretary Rick Perry to make the midsummer phone call to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy that is now at the center of House Democrats' impeachment inquiry, two sources familiar with the matter told NBC News.

Trump suggested it was a call he didn't even want to make, the sources said."
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:39 pm

As to the Impeachment process of Pres. Trump, Trump and Republicans are going to do what it takes to delay, make sure there is no cooperation with Democrats, smear or 'what about ism' as to Democrats, lie, use the process for fundraising and make Trump a victim of a witch hunt by 'liberals'. Senator McConnell, the Republican & Senate Majority Leader. has pretty much said he will do what it takes to hinder the process. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartandhp

You know Republicans will be in full war mode in the primary and general election season next year using the Impeachment as a huge weapon issue. They will spend record amounts of money to buy massive amounts of TV and web ads, find new tricks on social media to support Trump/hurt Democrats, keep many who are Democrats from voting in key states (strict enforcement of ID laws, cut numbers of voting locations,etc), and for sure do nothing to prevent foreign influence in the elections in Trump's favor. Republicans will attack Democrats for going after President Trump as well as play up the serious conflicts with most voters as to the D's policies on immigration, abortion, GLTBQ rights, power of the courts, taxation and spending,

What I fear that this Impeachment fight will do is cause many not to even vote next fall as see no real choices in candidates and anger over the excesses of the campaign season. Still the process must continue, see if more hard evidence comes out (like Nixon's WH recordings did) for not to do so will mean no checks on a bad President, including a future Democratic party one.
 
afcjets
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
There will be more. Each one carefully planned to keep the news cycle going, yet no impeachment to prevent due process.


Evidence for such a claim? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.


There is nothing extraordinary about it. Trump has had an unprecedented amount of leakers and is hated more than any other President. IIRC one Congressman said they would work to impeach him as soon as he was elected. We had a two year long Special Counsel investigation that said there was no collusion after Schiff who is head of the foreign intelligence committee lied and said he had evidence of it. This is nothing new. It will continue at least until the day he leaves office.
 
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jdstJD
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:58 pm

I may just be having a bad day and feeling pessimistic but I am really concerned that this man is going to weasel his way into a second term. The more I read the posts in this thread I just feel like those who support him are going to disregard everything staring all of us in the face and he’s gonna get away with this.
Lawyer, frequent air traveler and aviation enthusiast.
 
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ER757
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:14 pm

I'm bothered by McConnell's statement that he'll stop the impeachment in the Senate if it gets that far. Shouldn't a statement like that wait until all the evidence is presented and the House actually voted to impeach? Sounds like Mitch doesn't care and would rather put party ahead of country.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:21 am

Stephen Cohen, writer for The Nation, husband of Katrina van den Heuvel, no Trumpist, says it was various intelligence agencies that set out to destroy Trump.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/10/05/stephen_cohen_why_did_the_intelligence_agencies_set_out_to_destroy_trump.html?jwsource=cl
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9289
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:34 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Stephen Cohen, writer for The Nation, husband of Katrina van den Heuvel, no Trumpist, says it was various intelligence agencies that set out to destroy Trump.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/10/05/stephen_cohen_why_did_the_intelligence_agencies_set_out_to_destroy_trump.html?jwsource=cl


Oooh deep state conspiracy? Or maybe the fact that Trump the Traitor sold out the US to the Russians . Remeber how he trusts the Russians more than the US right?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:34 am

ER757 wrote:
I'm bothered by McConnell's statement that he'll stop the impeachment in the Senate if it gets that far. Shouldn't a statement like that wait until all the evidence is presented and the House actually voted to impeach? Sounds like Mitch doesn't care and would rather put party ahead of country.


Mitch has always put the party in front of the people. He is the worst of the worst when it comes to patriotism.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 9717
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:04 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Stephen Cohen, writer for The Nation, husband of Katrina van den Heuvel, no Trumpist, says it was various intelligence agencies that set out to destroy Trump.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/10/05/stephen_cohen_why_did_the_intelligence_agencies_set_out_to_destroy_trump.html?jwsource=cl


Even if that’s true and many in the IC dislike or don’t trust 45, that doesn’t change what has happened. Alliances have frayed, readouts of calls with key leaders have been locked away by WH loyalists (I’d like to know what Saudi and DPRK were promised - wouldn’t you?), the dear leader of DPRK was given legitimacy with no results to date, we reneged from the UNSC agreement with Iran which destabilized the Gulf and is now at an impasse with two allies itching to hit them, US intel was shared with a Russian ambassador, and now this business of asking foreign entities to investigate Americans in a phony ‘corruption’ push - that’s odd, where were the investigations into the Caymans, Panama, and Weinstein company all this time?

SE Cupp put it best yesterday - three things about Ukraine can’t be spun: they dangled then withheld aid, tried to cover it up when WH staffers got antsy, and they got caught.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
KFTG
Posts: 182
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:52 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Stephen Cohen, writer for The Nation, husband of Katrina van den Heuvel, no Trumpist, says it was various intelligence agencies that set out to destroy Trump.

So they laid the bait, and Trump took the bait. Says more about your "very stable genius", owner of a "very good brain" than it does about that "deep state".
You elected a moron. Own it.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3025
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:12 am

KFTG wrote:
So they laid the bait, and Trump took the bait. Says more about your "very stable genius", owner of a "very good brain" than it does about that "deep state". You elected a moron. Own it.


:checkmark: That "very stable genius" and "very good brain" are going to have trouble flim-flamming their way out of this one.

.
Dahlia Lithwick, whom I respect very much for her writings about the Supreme Court, has an interesting take on Trump's situation now:

"Perhaps most importantly, there’s something about this one that is not well served by the usual Trump dismissal of his wrongdoing. Part of Donald Trump’s seeming immunity to consequences comes from the fact that he has a singular, predictable response to being caught out: He first denies that it happened, and then, faced with proof that it did—or in the case of Ukraine, having himself hand-delivered the proof that it did—he admits having done it, but then argues that it’s perfectly cool, perfectly legal, and not that big of a deal. And that everyone does it and that people should do it more. It’s uncanny but it never fails him. From “Russia, if you’re listening” to “I don’t pay taxes because I’m smart,” the play is to rope-a-dope the public into believing we’re the idiots for abiding by the rules."

"Maybe this time feels different because, well, they are exceptionally bad at this one. Or maybe it feels different because the bombshells are coming from whistleblowers and inspectors general who were silent until they couldn’t be. Or maybe it feels different because no matter how you spin it, the president appears to be losing his shit. But maybe it just feels different because this time Donald Trump looks weak and pathetic."


In her article, she points out the Democrats - especially Pelosi - are getting ahead of him, instead of reacting to him, as he plays his game. That, coupled with the credibility of the sources (even though the Trump puppets playbook calls for destroying the credibility of anyone who questions him, it doesn't seem to be working this time), means this is much more likely to make a lasting impression in the minds of voters that all the other things he has done... which should have called his credibility and patriotism into question. This time, he has gone off the deep end, flaunting conspiracy theories that even his own appointees say have no credibility. As Lithwick puts it:

"He’s ripping up the carpeting on constitutional democracy for, well, an imaginary grudge."

.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/10/trump-ukraine-scandal-playbook-finally-not-working.html
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
ThePointblank
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Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:39 pm

Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:43 am

Things just get shadier by the day; the AP is reporting that at the same time Trump was trying to urge Ukraine’s leaders to investigate his political rival Joe Biden, associates of his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani were looking to profit from the country’s state-run natural gas company:

https://apnews.com/d7440cffba4940f5b85cd3dfa3500fb2

I mean, naming your company for this venture "45 Energy Group" is pretty damn brazen...
 
Dieuwer
Topic Author
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:37 pm

One step closer towards the disclosure of Trump's tax records: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/07/nyre ... vance.html
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9289
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:50 pm

ThePointblank wrote:
Things just get shadier by the day; the AP is reporting that at the same time Trump was trying to urge Ukraine’s leaders to investigate his political rival Joe Biden, associates of his personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani were looking to profit from the country’s state-run natural gas company:

https://apnews.com/d7440cffba4940f5b85cd3dfa3500fb2

I mean, naming your company for this venture "45 Energy Group" is pretty damn brazen...


Should have been called 45 Treason Company. The swamp is deeper than it looks for the Trump supporters.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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N14AZ
Posts: 3799
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:09 pm

Wow, just read his latest tweet:

As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).


No, this was not written by a dictator of some banana republic, it was written by the so-called leader of the free world (... no way...).

„ my great and unmatched wisdom“ what? Was this meant to be funny?

„I‘ve done before!“ hmmm, when and where exactly?

I see a scenario where the Republicans themselves pull the plug...
 
alfa164
Posts: 3025
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:02 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Wow, just read his latest tweet:
As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).


No, this was not written by a dictator of some banana republic, it was written by the so-called leader of the free world (... no way...).


Wow! Just Wow! If there was any doubt that this ego-maniacal narcissist was going off the rails... this should eliminate that.

When I read that quote, I had to look to be sure it wasn't a joke - or something from the Onion. It isn't. It is from Trump himself. It is sad to see a man melting down mentally right in front of us... and imagine what other world leaders think.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9289
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:33 pm

alfa164 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
Wow, just read his latest tweet:
As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).


No, this was not written by a dictator of some banana republic, it was written by the so-called leader of the free world (... no way...).


Wow! Just Wow! If there was any doubt that this ego-maniacal narcissist was going off the rails... this should eliminate that.

When I read that quote, I had to look to be sure it wasn't a joke - or something from the Onion. It isn't. It is from Trump himself. It is sad to see a man melting down mentally right in front of us... and imagine what other world leaders think.


Unmatched wisdom ? Multiple bankruptcies and wives?

Sigh,
The Evangelicals will still love him,
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
Posts: 6789
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:28 pm

N14AZ wrote:
Wow, just read his latest tweet:

As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!).


No, this was not written by a dictator of some banana republic, it was written by the so-called leader of the free world (... no way...).

„ my great and unmatched wisdom“ what? Was this meant to be funny?

„I‘ve done before!“ hmmm, when and where exactly?

I see a scenario where the Republicans themselves pull the plug...



Yeah, threatening a NATO ally!

Only a stable genius would come up with such a brilliant move.

And to think, Erogan was among his first foreign visitors who the Criminal-in-Chief allowed Erogan's security team beat up American & Turkish protesters...and did nothing about it.

Now he wants to 'torch' them...TO Avoid hearing Impeachment talk from the MSM.

Driving an NATO ally into the welcoming arms of Vladimir Putin is a stroke of soaring stupidity.

But his fans will cheer him on thinking he's protecting American interests.

Putin on the other, gets the entire Black Sea and Mediterranean access that never before if Turkey moves on step closer into Putin's embrace.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
BN747
Posts: 6789
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Re: Impeachment: for real this time?

Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:35 pm

Spineless Trump got ‘rolled’ by Turkish president — according to national security official who heard the call
https://www.rawstory.com/2019/10/spinel ... -the-call/

from article: "Over the weekend President Donald Trump said he’d support a Turkish military excursion into Syria. Then, he tweeted out that he would not allow Turkey to abuse its power in the country. ...Reporter Eliot Higgins spoke with a National Security Council official about Trump’s geopolitical shenanigans. "Official who heard call says Trump got “rolled” by Turkey and “has no spine,” Higgins wrote. "

Yep, he's setting fires everywhere to draw attention away from Capitol Hill.


Twitter needs to shut him down completely, he's igniting global catastrophe via Twitter.
Who else would 'think' of such a thing?


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
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