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einsteinboricua
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Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:16 pm

We often hear about how it should be illegal to vote in two states, which makes sense and I don't argue against it.

However, what if you own a home in a state and a county/state attempts a citizen vote on raising property taxes? Whether or not the home is rented, shouldn't you, as a homeowner, have a say in whether the property taxes that you'll have to pay for should go up?

For instance, I own a house in Maryland (currently rented through property management so I'm certain the rent price would accommodate any increase). Even though I don't live in MD proper, why can't I have a say on the taxes that I still have to pay for as part of being the owner? It also begs the question: when it comes to property taxes, should those that rent even be allowed to vote on the matter? Quite easy for someone who's lived in a rental property to say "yes" to increases, knowing that they are not directly on the hook.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:25 pm

I've found myself on both sides of supporting and opposing this type of stuff. There are some municipalities that do allow you to participate in local elections, but only if its not a national election, I think. (I'd have to research it again, but the last time I was discussing this topic with another individual I was pretty sure we found a few places that allow this. Could be wrong though.). But where do you stop it. You can always make an argument all the way up to the chain that each office influences what you do in that state, so you should have say.

Ultimately, I've decided that it's no different than someone running a business. Afterall, renting is a business. You're still able to argue your points in front of the relevant authorities. You can lobby the residents and put up signs etc. But that's the price of doing business there. The problem is we have emotional attachments to the properties in these situations as individuals.

Possible solution is eliminating property taxes everywhere. I'm in favor of that.
 
extender
Posts: 633
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:28 pm

I would say no. You vote where your residence is. If not, you can open the door that only property owners can vote, or that property owners have more voting power. Let's keep this one simple, vote where you live. If you have rental properties, you're going to pass on any increases to the lessee.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:35 pm

Where ever your primary residence is, that is where you vote. I get no say in taxes in the city next to me, and i don't pay their tax rate. I have friends who own rentals in that city, and they don't get a say in the rates, but they just raise their rents to make up for it. Same should happen here for you, even though you are across country now.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Spar
Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 pm

Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 4:47 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
We often hear about how it should be illegal to vote in two states, which makes sense and I don't argue against it.

However, what if you own a home in a state and a county/state attempts a citizen vote on raising property taxes? Whether or not the home is rented, shouldn't you, as a homeowner, have a say in whether the property taxes that you'll have to pay for should go up?

For instance, I own a house in Maryland (currently rented through property management so I'm certain the rent price would accommodate any increase). Even though I don't live in MD proper, why can't I have a say on the taxes that I still have to pay for as part of being the owner? It also begs the question: when it comes to property taxes, should those that rent even be allowed to vote on the matter? Quite easy for someone who's lived in a rental property to say "yes" to increases, knowing that they are not directly on the hook.

Any halfway alert county supervisor would already know that any out of town rental owner would be opposed to a property tax increase of any kind for any purpose.
So no representation is needed.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:33 pm

@einsteinboricua, do you believe that you are entitled to vote everywhere you pay some form tax? If not, what makes owning a home special?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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falstaff
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:02 pm

You vote at your primary residence and just have to deal with that if you have property elsewhere. It's just the way things are. It's like paying school taxes but not having any kids or paying a tax for your local library, but never going there. It's just one of the things you do. There are people who don't like paying taxes for anything they don't use, but I look at them as a price you pay to not live in a crappy area. I may not have kids, but I know having a well funded school system keeps my property values up and therefore I benefit if I choose to sell my house. Paying for things like parks and libraries even if I don't use them benefit the city for the same reason. They can attract people to the area and that keeps my property values up.

I would love not to pay taxes at all, but I do enjoy having my street plowed in the winter. I like the fact the police/fire/EMS will come if I need them and we have safe and clean city parks for people to enjoy. I don't have kids, but the kids in the area sure like the basketball courts and the baseball diamond. Lots of families and single people enjoy the public swimming pool in the summer. That stuff costs money.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
@einsteinboricua, do you believe that you are entitled to vote everywhere you pay some form tax? If not, what makes owning a home special?

Not for all things. I would not vote for how the state government decides to be organized, for example. So if MD had a state or federal election, I would refuse a ballot if offered because I don't live there (it's the same thing I try to do when fellow Puerto Ricans try to convince me to vote absentee on island elections). I'm talking about initiatives for where property in the state is involved.

If we're going down that road, though, then Americans abroad shouldn't have the right to vote in elections (they don't live in the states, so why would they?), yet no one here would dare suggest that expats be denied a vote, especially in federal matters where their status in the country they reside in can be affected.

Spar wrote:
Any halfway alert county supervisor would already know that any out of town rental owner would be opposed to a property tax increase of any kind for any purpose.

Someone renting my property, maybe. But what about those who rent in rental developments where the property tax can be spread more evenly in rents?

Anyway...it's a thought experiment. I've found myself on both sides of the coin: my first ballot in the states was a series of municipal property tax increases to fund fire station refurbishments and more programs for schools, among others. The proposed increases were around 1/4 of 1% in various ones. I left the questions blank because while I recognize that the money was going towards good causes, I put myself in the shoes of homeowners that would be having to deal with an increased property tax bill (and MO being a state that also charges property taxes on car...yeesh). Most of the increases were defeated regardless. The next ballot I got, I approved of a couple but only because I was already a homeowner (this was MD).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6002
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:12 pm

extender wrote:
I would say no. You vote where your residence is. If not, you can open the door that only property owners can vote, or that property owners have more voting power. Let's keep this one simple, vote where you live. If you have rental properties, you're going to pass on any increases to the lessee.


Let’s please open that door! I’m all for it.


GF
 
Spar
Posts: 486
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:20 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Spar wrote:
Any halfway alert county supervisor would already know that any out of town rental owner would be opposed to a property tax increase of any kind for any purpose.

Someone renting my property, maybe. But what about those who rent in rental developments where the property tax can be spread more evenly in rents?

Anyway...it's a thought experiment. I've found myself on both sides of the coin: my first ballot in the states was a series of municipal property tax increases to fund fire station refurbishments and more programs for schools, among others. The proposed increases were around 1/4 of 1% in various ones. I left the questions blank because while I recognize that the money was going towards good causes, I put myself in the shoes of homeowners that would be having to deal with an increased property tax bill (and MO being a state that also charges property taxes on car...yeesh). Most of the increases were defeated regardless. The next ballot I got, I approved of a couple but only because I was already a homeowner (this was MD).

Property tax as usually presented and railed about is a phony issue. It isn't just the property owners who pay the tax, as you know, renters wind up shelling out the money for that tax as do shoppers, because businesses factor that tax into their overhead costs, and on and on.

Yet so often, landowners claim that it is their sole burden.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:00 pm

Spar wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Spar wrote:
Any halfway alert county supervisor would already know that any out of town rental owner would be opposed to a property tax increase of any kind for any purpose.

Someone renting my property, maybe. But what about those who rent in rental developments where the property tax can be spread more evenly in rents?

Anyway...it's a thought experiment. I've found myself on both sides of the coin: my first ballot in the states was a series of municipal property tax increases to fund fire station refurbishments and more programs for schools, among others. The proposed increases were around 1/4 of 1% in various ones. I left the questions blank because while I recognize that the money was going towards good causes, I put myself in the shoes of homeowners that would be having to deal with an increased property tax bill (and MO being a state that also charges property taxes on car...yeesh). Most of the increases were defeated regardless. The next ballot I got, I approved of a couple but only because I was already a homeowner (this was MD).

Property tax as usually presented and railed about is a phony issue. It isn't just the property owners who pay the tax, as you know, renters wind up shelling out the money for that tax as do shoppers, because businesses factor that tax into their overhead costs, and on and on.

Yet so often, landowners claim that it is their sole burden.



You can tell that to the thousands of people who lose their homes to delinquent property taxes every year.
 
Spar
Posts: 486
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:29 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
You can tell that to the thousands of people who lose their homes to delinquent property taxes every year.

That's mostly hyperbole. Can you provide proof that "thousands" of homeowners lose their homes every year? Excluding of course people who are in bankruptcy and were in the process of losing everything anyway. This seldom happens to homeowners who are alive and functioning because banks either bundle the tax into the mortgage payment or insist that it is paid. The cases where it does occur are usually abandoned properties, although there probably are a few people who own outright and just choose to sluff it off.

Occasionally it happens to the elderly living in paid off homes, and that draws media attention. I'm sure that if they hadn't made payments to their bank most "conservatives" would be outraged and say that they deserve to be homeless.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:43 pm

Spar wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
You can tell that to the thousands of people who lose their homes to delinquent property taxes every year.

That's mostly hyperbole. Can you provide proof that "thousands" of homeowners lose their homes every year? Excluding of course people who are in bankruptcy and were in the process of losing everything anyway. This seldom happens to homeowners who are alive and functioning because banks either bundle the tax into the mortgage payment or insist that it is paid. The cases where it does occur are usually abandoned properties, although there probably are a few people who own outright and just choose to sluff it off.

Occasionally it happens to the elderly living in paid off homes, and that draws media attention usually. I'm sure that if they hadn't made payments to their bank most "conservatives" would be outraged and say that they deserve to be homeless.


Nope. Visit sites like realauction.com, civicsource.com, govease.com. And those are just the online auction sites. Many counties still auction the properties off on the courthouse steps. In Florida if your taxes go delinquent for two years then the owner of the tax lien can auction off your property. In other states the tax lien holder just automatically gets your property after two years. You are very mistaken in your thinking. The only thing that takes priority over property taxes is an IRS lien. Banks that forgot to pay the taxes have had their own houses taken away.

Part of my business is working with these homeowners in such a position. I'll agree to pay off the delinquent taxes to stop the tax foreclosure and give them time to sell the property for a fair market price in exchange for a % of the sale. Most of the time it's a landlord that has gotten in over their head or didn't manage the rental income properly. And often it's the kids that inherited a property and had no idea about the consequences of not paying the taxes on it.
 
Spar
Posts: 486
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Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:55 pm

Most of the time it's a landlord.........................

So it isn't people who lost their "homes".
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 6002
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Property tax votes

Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:14 pm

Anyone who doesn’t understand the outcome of not paying their taxes should lose the property. I don’t agree with the way taxes are used but I do understand not paying one’s bills.

GF
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Property tax votes

Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:55 am

You're going back to feudalism where landowners had all the "votes"/power. It just does not work that way in a one person-one vote system.
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