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keesje
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The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:42 pm

The western world once again going in with good intentions, waving flags, awesome weapons, ideals, leaving the locals in another mess..

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49960973
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:24 pm

Yet another time the US abandonds the Kurds.

The question is to why Trump is doing this right now? His own army top is against it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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johnboy
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:26 pm

I think he has provocative pics of every authoritarian scab in the world affixed lovingly to the ceiling, so he can pleasure himself every night before bedtime.
 
BN747
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:27 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Yet another time the US abandonds the Kurds.

The question is to why Trump is doing this right now? His own army top is against it.


Because, he needs YOU and millions of others to look away from Impeachment talks and developements as much as posssible...

...don't chase the shiny ball, more are coming!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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johnboy
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:30 pm

BN747 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yet another time the US abandonds the Kurds.

The question is to why Trump is doing this right now? His own army top is against it.


Because, he needs YOU and millions of others to look away from Impeachment talks and developements as much as posssible...

...don't chase the shiny ball, more are coming!

BN747


Agreed.
He’ll try to tear this country apart so he can try to weasel out of his treasonous behavior.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:31 pm

BN747 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yet another time the US abandonds the Kurds.

The question is to why Trump is doing this right now? His own army top is against it.


Because, he needs YOU and millions of others to look away from Impeachment talks and developements as much as posssible...

...don't chase the shiny ball, more are coming!

BN747


this shiny ball might end up killing a lot of innocent people.

The impeachment is an US problem, not the Kurds, yet they are once again the ones stabbed in the back.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Pyrex
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:41 pm

Dutchy wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yet another time the US abandonds the Kurds.

The question is to why Trump is doing this right now? His own army top is against it.


Because, he needs YOU and millions of others to look away from Impeachment talks and developements as much as posssible...

...don't chase the shiny ball, more are coming!

BN747


this shiny ball might end up killing a lot of innocent people.

The impeachment is an US problem, not the Kurds, yet they are once again the ones stabbed in the back.


And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:49 pm

You know when you've pissed off senile sack of manure Pat Robertson, you've erred. Wow this really is going over like a lead balloon *with republicans*.
johnboy wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yet another time the US abandonds the Kurds.

The question is to why Trump is doing this right now? His own army top is against it.


Because, he needs YOU and millions of others to look away from Impeachment talks and developements as much as posssible...

...don't chase the shiny ball, more are coming!

BN747


Agreed.
He’ll try to tear this country apart so he can try to weasel out of his treasonous behavior.

I don't think that's the strategy here. I don't think there's ever been a strategy to be honest. To say Trump is trying to distract anyone from anything is to give him way too much credit. The guy has the foresight and memory of a lead poisoned gold fish.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BN747
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:02 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
You know when you've pissed off senile sack of manure Pat Robertson, you've erred. Wow this really is going over like a lead balloon *with republicans*.
johnboy wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Because, he needs YOU and millions of others to look away from Impeachment talks and developements as much as posssible...

...don't chase the shiny ball, more are coming!

BN747


Agreed.
He’ll try to tear this country apart so he can try to weasel out of his treasonous behavior.

I don't think that's the strategy here. I don't think there's ever been a strategy to be honest. To say Trump is trying to distract anyone from anything is to give him way too much credit. The guy has the foresight and memory of a lead poisoned gold fish.


That's true, but lighting fires all over the map is in no way demanding of an 'clever thoughtful' mind.

Everyone knows from watching any kind of tv... that a sinister mind has it all figured out - all blame ALL your accusers of being corrupt (in this case, the MSM,FBI, CIA, Pelosi, etc) when you know full well of all the dirty unsavory sh*t you've being doing all your life.

It's reactionary tactic, a go to for all liars a like.

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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casinterest
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:03 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Because, he needs YOU and millions of others to look away from Impeachment talks and developements as much as posssible...

...don't chase the shiny ball, more are coming!

BN747


this shiny ball might end up killing a lot of innocent people.

The impeachment is an US problem, not the Kurds, yet they are once again the ones stabbed in the back.


And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.


So Syria will now be even more of a pawn of Russia and Iran. I guess that is Trump's real interest. To keep selling out US interests in the Middle East and making it less stable .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:06 pm

casinterest wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

this shiny ball might end up killing a lot of innocent people.

The impeachment is an US problem, not the Kurds, yet they are once again the ones stabbed in the back.


And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.


So Syria will now be even more of a pawn of Russia and Iran. I guess that is Trump's real interest. To keep selling out US interests in the Middle East and making it less stable .


You're speaking as if he has this all figured out or something...

...he's nowhere near smart enough to strategize on that level....but what can do with do blinding ease, is listen to one Vladimir Putin, and execute his request.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Pyrex
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:29 pm

casinterest wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

this shiny ball might end up killing a lot of innocent people.

The impeachment is an US problem, not the Kurds, yet they are once again the ones stabbed in the back.


And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.


So Syria will now be even more of a pawn of Russia and Iran. I guess that is Trump's real interest. To keep selling out US interests in the Middle East and making it less stable .


And if Europeans want to keep Russia in check then they should man up and do it, as it is their continent. See the pattern here?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:11 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Because, he needs YOU and millions of others to look away from Impeachment talks and developements as much as posssible...

...don't chase the shiny ball, more are coming!

BN747


this shiny ball might end up killing a lot of innocent people.

The impeachment is an US problem, not the Kurds, yet they are once again the ones stabbed in the back.


And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.

Is that why Trump said he'd "destroy and obliterate their economy" if they do something we don't like? Because it's not our problem?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BN747
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:25 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

this shiny ball might end up killing a lot of innocent people.

The impeachment is an US problem, not the Kurds, yet they are once again the ones stabbed in the back.


And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.

Is that why Trump said he'd "destroy and obliterate their economy" if they do something we don't like? Because it's not our problem?


Well, 1) I think our angry little friend is unaware that Turkey is a NATO member.
2) I don't think he knows Incirlik Air Base and others are a ring running from the North Sea/Germany down to the Black Sea is our western fence of containment (Japan down to Phillippines is the most Eastern fence on containment)...strategies smarter minds concocted decades ago to protect America, American Interest and neighbors.

So yeah kick a hole in our defense (Turkey) where only Putin gains and give them a huge toe hole in the free zone, a Guantanamo of sorts.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:28 pm

This very stable genius can't be impeached soon enough. He literally gives aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States.
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:49 pm

BN747 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:

And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.

Is that why Trump said he'd "destroy and obliterate their economy" if they do something we don't like? Because it's not our problem?


Well, 1) I think our angry little friend is unaware that Turkey is a NATO member.
2) I don't think he knows Incirlik Air Base and others are a ring running from the North Sea/Germany down to the Black Sea is our western fence of containment (Japan down to Phillippines is the most Eastern fence on containment)...strategies smarter minds concocted decades ago to protect America, American Interest and neighbors.

So yeah kick a hole in our defense (Turkey) where only Putin gains and give them a huge toe hole in the free zone, a Guantanamo of sorts.

BN747


To quote President Obama to Mitt Romney, “the ‘80s called and they want their foreign policy back.” I swear if Trump outlawed our nuclear arsenal tomorrow, the entire Democratic Party would rise up demanding new nukes. If he slapped a 90% tax on income over a million dollars, Warren and Sanders would oppose it as “unfair to their voters”. And they’d be right.


GF
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Pyrex
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:50 pm

I notice with some curiosity that none of the people condemning this move are volunteering to go act as a human shields in Syria, which is effectively what the U.S. soldiers in there now are.

Assuming that the U.S. can resolve tribal conflicts in the Middle East thousands of years old is just bonkers. If the Kurds want their country they will have to do what literally every single independent country in the world has done, and fight for it. I do wish them the best of luck, and that they clean Turkey's clock. I think they have a decent shot at it (Erdogan's military has been purged out and they may end up being as effective as Saudi Arabia in Yemen, all that fancy hardware and nobody who knows how to operate it). If there is a GoFundMe to get them some Javelin and Stinger missiles I am willing to chip in. But assuming the U.S. can act as a buffer forever is just nuts.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:54 pm

Perhaps Macron would be interested to take the lead.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:00 pm

Pyrex wrote:
If the Kurds want their country they will have to do what literally every single independent country in the world has done, and fight for it.

If only the Kurds fought for something. Jesus. Were you home schooled?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:17 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Is that why Trump said he'd "destroy and obliterate their economy" if they do something we don't like? Because it's not our problem?


Well, 1) I think our angry little friend is unaware that Turkey is a NATO member.
2) I don't think he knows Incirlik Air Base and others are a ring running from the North Sea/Germany down to the Black Sea is our western fence of containment (Japan down to Phillippines is the most Eastern fence on containment)...strategies smarter minds concocted decades ago to protect America, American Interest and neighbors.

So yeah kick a hole in our defense (Turkey) where only Putin gains and give them a huge toe hole in the free zone, a Guantanamo of sorts.

BN747


To quote President Obama to Mitt Romney, “the ‘80s called and they want their foreign policy back.” I swear if Trump outlawed our nuclear arsenal tomorrow, the entire Democratic Party would rise up demanding new nukes. If he slapped a 90% tax on income over a million dollars, Warren and Sanders would oppose it as “unfair to their voters”. And they’d be right.


GF

You realize these are trump bootlickers criticizing him, right?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:20 pm

Pyrex wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Pyrex wrote:

And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.


So Syria will now be even more of a pawn of Russia and Iran. I guess that is Trump's real interest. To keep selling out US interests in the Middle East and making it less stable .


And if Europeans want to keep Russia in check then they should man up and do it, as it is their continent. See the pattern here?


Did you learn anything in History class as a kid? Or did your class skip over BC through 20th century Europe and Middle East History?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:21 pm

Pyrex wrote:
I notice with some curiosity that none of the people condemning this move are volunteering to go act as a human shields in Syria, which is effectively what the U.S. soldiers in there now are.

Assuming that the U.S. can resolve tribal conflicts in the Middle East thousands of years old is just bonkers. If the Kurds want their country they will have to do what literally every single independent country in the world has done, and fight for it. I do wish them the best of luck, and that they clean Turkey's clock. I think they have a decent shot at it (Erdogan's military has been purged out and they may end up being as effective as Saudi Arabia in Yemen, all that fancy hardware and nobody who knows how to operate it). If there is a GoFundMe to get them some Javelin and Stinger missiles I am willing to chip in. But assuming the U.S. can act as a buffer forever is just nuts.


Oh look a false flag operation. Must be that Russia is sending you email feeds in the morning .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
bennett123
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:03 am

Apparently the President has ‘Great and unmatched wisdom’, says so in his tweet threatening Turkey.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:57 am

Pyrex wrote:
I notice with some curiosity that none of the people condemning this move are volunteering to go act as a human shields in Syria, which is effectively what the U.S. soldiers in there now are.

I don't remember the republicans volunteering for any of the wars they've started since 9/11, especially the one to take down the Taliban...before courageously and patriotically capitulating to the Taliban 20 years later. Maybe that's why they need to over compensate by standing for the anthem at all times. :rotfl:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:09 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
I notice with some curiosity that none of the people condemning this move are volunteering to go act as a human shields in Syria, which is effectively what the U.S. soldiers in there now are.

I don't remember the republicans volunteering for any of the wars they've started since 9/11, especially the one to take down the Taliban...before courageously and patriotically capitulating to the Taliban 20 years later. Maybe that's why they need to over compensate by standing for the anthem at all times. :rotfl:


I don’t recall them calling for any regime change in our petrodollar haven in the sandbox either - though that would have been the most logical post-9/11 action over all others. And they still defend that regime to this day.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
anrec80
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:12 am

Dutchy wrote:
Yet another time the US abandonds the Kurds.

The question is to why Trump is doing this right now? His own army top is against it.


Well - there is never a good time, and it’s very hard to pull out of somewhere. Only finding excuse to get in is very easy. The U.S. doesn’t gain anything by this presence, however this presence does provide a burden on American economy, communities those servicemen come from, and society as the whole. And yes - just as any other pullout, this one will create some problems for some. Today, it is one set of problems, tomorrow - some other. If you do not want any of these “untimely pullout” - just don’t get in somewhere in the first place.
 
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:15 am

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Yet another time the US abandonds the Kurds.

The question is to why Trump is doing this right now? His own army top is against it.


Well - there is never a good time, and it’s very hard to pull out of somewhere. Only finding excuse to get in is very easy. The U.S. doesn’t gain anything by this presence, however this presence does provide a burden on American economy, communities those servicemen come from, and society as the whole. And yes - just as any other pullout, this one will create some problems for some. Today, it is one set of problems, tomorrow - some other. If you do not want any of these “untimely pullout” - just don’t get in somewhere in the first place.


When is Russia pulling out of the region??
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:17 am

It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Ken777
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:31 am

Trump is simply carrying out yet another act of betrayal - this time against the Kurds.

Not new for this third rate wanna-be. Just ask the people in South Korea, Japan, NATO Member states (Excluding Turkey) and the list goes on.

Putin must have been putting a lot of pressure on Deadbeat Donald. Do what Putin wants or their guarantees of bank loans are pulled, the Golden Showers Video hits the internet, and tape recordings of Trump's "private talks with Putin". If Putin stops protecting Trump's loans they get called and Trump goes into Bankruptcy - actually there will probably be so many Trump Bankruptcies that Trump will probably set a record that will never be broken - based on the number of Trump Companies that will fall.

Moscow Mitch has, I have to admit, surprised me in publicaally going after Trump, pushing for cancellation of this betrayal. The Kurds might be a little safer that they were yesterday
 
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WarRI1
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:43 am

Ken777 wrote:
Trump is simply carrying out yet another act of betrayal - this time against the Kurds.

Not new for this third rate wanna-be. Just ask the people in South Korea, Japan, NATO Member states (Excluding Turkey) and the list goes on.

Putin must have been putting a lot of pressure on Deadbeat Donald. Do what Putin wants or their guarantees of bank loans are pulled, the Golden Showers Video hits the internet, and tape recordings of Trump's "private talks with Putin". If Putin stops protecting Trump's loans they get called and Trump goes into Bankruptcy - actually there will probably be so many Trump Bankruptcies that Trump will probably set a record that will never be broken - based on the number of Trump Companies that will fall.

Moscow Mitch has, I have to admit, surprised me in publicaally going after Trump, pushing for cancellation of this betrayal. The Kurds might be a little safer that they were yesterday



Well said, and to me very true. I too was amazed that the Sphinx McConnell has spoken up on the issue.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
alfa164
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:59 am

Ken777 wrote:
Putin must have been putting a lot of pressure on Deadbeat Donald. Do what Putin wants or their guarantees of bank loans are pulled, the Golden Showers Video hits the internet, and tape recordings of Trump's "private talks with Putin". If Putin stops protecting Trump's loans they get called and Trump goes into Bankruptcy - actually there will probably be so many Trump Bankruptcies that Trump will probably set a record that will never be broken - based on the number of Trump Companies that will fall.


... reminds me of that mural in Lithuania...

https://time.com/4336396/lithuania-mura ... utin-kiss/
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
sonicruiser
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:18 am

I am not a Trump supporter by any stretch, but this was the right move. People give him a lot of shit for it just because they hate everything Trump does instead of realizing that this actually makes sense. Pulling out of war is always unpopular but someone has to do it.

The thing people realize is that there is never a good time to pull out of war. The US is realizing the same thing with Afghanistan. They came close to a peace deal but it got nixed at the last minute because of an attack. Well guess what, they don't call Afghanistan a war zone for nothing, those attacks are going to keep coming until they find a peace settlement, that's just how it works. If you wait until the perfect time to withdraw, it'll never come. It's going to be painful no matter when you do it so people should stop bitching about it and appreciate that this is one less mess we'll have to deal with. The Turks and the Kurds hate each other. You cannot help one without pissing off the other. From a strategic perspective, if you think the US is stupid enough to piss off the second largest NATO army in favor of the Kurds, you are living in fool's paradise. The US knows that Turkey is going to do whatever it wants irrespective of any US position so it might as well back Turkey and be on their good side since NATO is worthless without them. Does it betray Kurds? Yes. But it was stupid to back them in the first place knowing they are enemy #1 of Turkey, a country that happens to share a huge border with Syria. The same people that think we're now betraying the Kurds are the same people who were completely silent for the last 5 years when the US was actively betraying Turkey by supporting the Kurds since 2014. The US has supported the Kurds for almost 5 years now, and for all 5 years knew that Turkey hated their guts for doing it. Admitting that was a mistake was never going to be easy but it was necessary and inevitable if the US ever wanted to make progress towards a peaceful resolution of the Syrian conflict by recognizing that Turkey can do a lot more than the Kurds can in any kind of diplomatic settlement for Syria.
 
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janders
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:55 am

The Kurds are nothing more than a terrorist group themselves which we coopted for convenience sake and used them when it fit the narrative.
Time has not changed the fact of who these Kurdish fighters really are and it’s time to move on and not get in the way of the Turks to secure their borders better. The U.S should not have gotten in bed with these bad apples to begin with and long overdue we don’t prop them up either.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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seahawk
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:08 am

A good move, as this is not a fight America needs to fight.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:06 am

janders wrote:
The Kurds are nothing more than a terrorist group themselves which we coopted for convenience sake and used them when it fit the narrative.
Time has not changed the fact of who these Kurdish fighters really are and it’s time to move on and not get in the way of the Turks to secure their borders better. The U.S should not have gotten in bed with these bad apples to begin with and long overdue we don’t prop them up either.


Sorry man, this sounds like a Turkish defense. You do know that the Kurds are a "tribe" or a group of people. You are criminalizing people for who they are with this post. Don't know if that was your intent, don't think so, but that is what you did.

The Turks don't want to secure their borders, they can do that now, they want to occupy part of another country and that is never a good thing. Apparently they want to move 2million Syrians out of the 4million Syrian refugees, to this zone, to get them out of Turkey. The problem, of course, is these refugees are in the majority of Arabs, so they are changing the population in the region. Not unlike the Chinese did in Tibet, or Russia did in Crimea.

Be very careful what you say here.
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Kiwirob
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:26 am

casinterest wrote:
Pyrex wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

this shiny ball might end up killing a lot of innocent people.

The impeachment is an US problem, not the Kurds, yet they are once again the ones stabbed in the back.


And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.


So Syria will now be even more of a pawn of Russia and Iran. I guess that is Trump's real interest. To keep selling out US interests in the Middle East and making it less stable .


Weren't the US party to the initial destabilisation of Syria in the first instance? Isn't this another mess of your making?? Weren't the Arab Spring movements mostly US backed???
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12250
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:33 am

janders wrote:
The Kurds are nothing more than a terrorist group themselves which we coopted for convenience sake and used them when it fit the narrative.
Time has not changed the fact of who these Kurdish fighters really are and it’s time to move on and not get in the way of the Turks to secure their borders better. The U.S should not have gotten in bed with these bad apples to begin with and long overdue we don’t prop them up either.


What do you think the Israelis were before the West gave them a country? The US got into bed with them and continue to prop them up as well.
 
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mad99
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:25 am

The us tried to overthrow the Syrian government and failed. Oh well, sorry for the mess!

Now to sort out the heavily armed PKK and jihadists.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:16 am

Kiwirob wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Pyrex wrote:

And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.


So Syria will now be even more of a pawn of Russia and Iran. I guess that is Trump's real interest. To keep selling out US interests in the Middle East and making it less stable .


Weren't the US party to the initial destabilisation of Syria in the first instance? Isn't this another mess of your making?? Weren't the Arab Spring movements mostly US backed???


ISIS is a direct consequence of the Iraq war, that one is 100% US policy. The backing of the Kurds was forming a coalition against ISIS.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:31 am

So now liberals are for foreign occupation? Make up your minds. We need to bring everyone home. It's ludicrous that we are still in Germany, Japan, Korea, etc.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:52 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
So now liberals are for foreign occupation? Make up your minds. We need to bring everyone home. It's ludicrous that we are still in Germany, Japan, Korea, etc.


Alliance with the Kurds in northern Syria is not an 'occupation'. As for the rest - wow, is this just an extended 'Twilight Zone' episode, or what?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:53 am

Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
casinterest wrote:

So Syria will now be even more of a pawn of Russia and Iran. I guess that is Trump's real interest. To keep selling out US interests in the Middle East and making it less stable .


Weren't the US party to the initial destabilisation of Syria in the first instance? Isn't this another mess of your making?? Weren't the Arab Spring movements mostly US backed???


ISIS is a direct consequence of the Iraq war, that one is 100% US policy. The backing of the Kurds was forming a coalition against ISIS.


And Iraq was the wrong regime change - should have been 300 km to the south.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:31 am

The situation as to Syria is complex and seems to have no good end.

    Turkey, as well as Russia, Iraq and Iran, wants to quash Kurdish independence as it would take up part of the easternmost region of Turkey and small parts of those other countries.

    Turkey wants to send back to Syria millions of refugees from Syria, carving out a tiny sector, like Gaza as to Israel, to put them.

    The EU wants Turkey to stop any more refugees from Syria and Muslims from the ME from getting to their countries via Turkey to end the disruptions they have created there.

    Assad is a war criminal that had to be contained but Russia supports him as wants someone to sell weapons, gain access to the Mediterranean Sea for military and trade reasons and a short cut for Russian oil and natural gas pipelines. Russia also hates ISIS.

    All parties, including the USA and EU had to destroy ISIS. Certain factions of the Kurds were, as others noted, the strongest fighters against ISIS, and seriously helped to destroy them.

    We also used Kurds, who were hated by Iraqis and Saddam Hussain in the 2003 war in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein. We also wanted to keep Russia from supporting Saddam Hussein. The Kurds also expected in the deal then to be gain territory for an independent state and control of some of Iraq's oil wealth they thought they 'deserved'. We screwed them again.

    Then there is that Syria borders Israel with disputed borders and a place where enemies of Israel are based that Israel wants destroyed and the USA strongly supports.

    There is the costs, and minimal benefits of our military in Syria and with the Kurds, Many want to end our involvement in the region, get out soldiers out and use the money being spent for critical domestic needs or just lower taxes.

    One has to wonder if Pres. Trump's personal and business debts with Russian oligarchs are tipping his hand in his policy as to the Kurds to their benefit, as I noted above would help Russia with Syria.

The situation as to the Kurds and Syria as I noted in the beginning is complex and I think Trump is unable to deal with it and just is doing what he would personally benefit from with some butt covering reasons.
 
SteelChair
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:01 pm

My guess is that no one on this thread is willing to volunteer to join the US Army, vounteer for the SF, and then give their life in northern Syria. Nor are they willing to risk any member of their families lives. Just a guess.

How many American lives should be put at risk for the Kurds? For how long?

Its only 1,000 soldiers, why can't our Euro allies provide the 1,000 soldiers? Maybe that could make up for their unwillingness to fund their part of the sacred NATO.

When this first broke yesterday, all the MSM were saying that the US military was caught unawares by this unpredictable move. Yet, later they were saying that Mattis resigned over this very issue months ago. Which is it? They need to get their talking points from the swamp/dems/CIA/FBI/Brennan more clearly spelled out. Trump is fulfilling a campaign promise.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4663
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:51 pm

SteelChair wrote:
My guess is that no one on this thread is willing to volunteer to join the US Army, vounteer for the SF, and then give their life in northern Syria. Nor are they willing to risk any member of their families lives. Just a guess.

How many American lives should be put at risk for the Kurds? For how long?

Its only 1,000 soldiers, why can't our Euro allies provide the 1,000 soldiers? Maybe that could make up for their unwillingness to fund their part of the sacred NATO.

When this first broke yesterday, all the MSM were saying that the US military was caught unawares by this unpredictable move. Yet, later they were saying that Mattis resigned over this very issue months ago. Which is it? They need to get their talking points from the swamp/dems/CIA/FBI/Brennan more clearly spelled out. Trump is fulfilling a campaign promise.


They are probably waiting for 240 Marines to die in an attack on some barracks before doing anything about it, same as Beirut. The mission there was pretty much the same..

If you were willing to put American lives on the line, you should at least be able to articulate clearly a) What is the mission?, and b) What does victory look like? If you can't do those two basic things, you have no business putting lives on the line.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9279
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:57 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Pyrex wrote:

And Turkey and their shitty behavior is a European problem, not a U.S. one, and yet the Europeans seem to expect U.S. soldiers to keep Turkey in check.


So Syria will now be even more of a pawn of Russia and Iran. I guess that is Trump's real interest. To keep selling out US interests in the Middle East and making it less stable .


Weren't the US party to the initial destabilisation of Syria in the first instance? Isn't this another mess of your making?? Weren't the Arab Spring movements mostly US backed???


So it was OK to continue to back a corrupt dictator that used chemical weapons on his own people? No it was absolutely correct so support the Arab Spring. The issue was that Iran and Russia came in on the side of Assad. If the US backs out now, then we have given up on democracy.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:58 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Weren't the US party to the initial destabilisation of Syria in the first instance? Isn't this another mess of your making?? Weren't the Arab Spring movements mostly US backed???


ISIS is a direct consequence of the Iraq war, that one is 100% US policy. The backing of the Kurds was forming a coalition against ISIS.


And Iraq was the wrong regime change - should have been 300 km to the south.



Iraq needed the regime change. Saddam was worse than Assad. As for the other regime, that one has it's pockets to deep into us Oil and Military interests.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9279
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:58 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Weren't the US party to the initial destabilisation of Syria in the first instance? Isn't this another mess of your making?? Weren't the Arab Spring movements mostly US backed???


ISIS is a direct consequence of the Iraq war, that one is 100% US policy. The backing of the Kurds was forming a coalition against ISIS.


And Iraq was the wrong regime change - should have been 300 km to the south.



Iraq needed the regime change. Saddam was worse than Assad. As for the other regime, that one has it's pockets to deep into us Oil and Military interests.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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mad99
Posts: 1192
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:00 pm

The Americans aren’t at risk, PKK spotters on the ground are at risk. That’s why you gave them all the new gear ….that they will now turnover to the Syrian army
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4663
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

Re: The Glorious Withdrawal from Northern Syria, 2019

Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:22 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
janders wrote:
The Kurds are nothing more than a terrorist group themselves which we coopted for convenience sake and used them when it fit the narrative.
Time has not changed the fact of who these Kurdish fighters really are and it’s time to move on and not get in the way of the Turks to secure their borders better. The U.S should not have gotten in bed with these bad apples to begin with and long overdue we don’t prop them up either.


What do you think the Israelis were before the West gave them a country? The US got into bed with them and continue to prop them up as well.


The West did not "give Israel a country", Israel is an independent country because they fought 3 total wars (as in, "the result of losing is your entire people get completely slaughtered") in the space of 19 years, by themselves, against overwhelmingly superior opponents, and won them all. No other country in the world can claim anything close to that. In the first one, in 1948, the West (as in Britain) was actively fighting against them, supplying Israel's enemies and providing them with intelligence and even manpower. In the second one, in 1967, the only Western country providing them any sort of military support at the time (France, through military hardware) actually pulled back all supplies and spares. In the third one, in 1973, they did have some new toys from the U.S. (vastly less than what the Soviet Union was providing it's enemies), but had to fight it all on their own.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!

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