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WarRI1
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The plot that won the White House.

Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:32 am

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-originals/w ... 4873667508


I watched this program, although I do not care for Rachel Maddow usually. I found it very interesting and believable due to actual recordings and writings. In the end, it is a parallel to our present day occupant fifty years later. Treasonous behavior than and now.
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Dutchy
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:41 am

All these treads will lead nowhere because you have believers defending the current occupied of the white house.
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EA CO AS
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:52 am

Dutchy wrote:
All these treads will lead nowhere because you have believers defending the current occupied of the white house.


And those who have decided he's guilty of a crime even though the DOJ immediately said it wasn't. He never said, "Go get dirt on Biden," by the way, but made a legitimate request of another head of state to investigate possible criminal wrongdoing, which it's his prerogative to do, especially since there's a longstanding agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine to cooperate with regard to criminal justice investigations.
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Dutchy
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:03 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
All these treads will lead nowhere because you have believers defending the current occupied of the white house.


And those who have decided he's guilty of a crime even though the DOJ immediately said it wasn't. He never said, "Go get dirt on Biden," by the way, but made a legitimate request of another head of state to investigate possible criminal wrongdoing, which it's his prerogative to do, especially since there's a longstanding agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine to cooperate with regard to criminal justice investigations.


Thanks for proving my point.
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Aaron747
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:56 am

Soon much of this may not matter, whether the impeachment inquiry yields articles worthy of Senate trial or not - the WH is facing an uphill slog on the economy and manufacturing jobs - trendlines are not favorable to the reelection campaign, especially in WI, PA, and NC, where the manufacturing sectors are flat at best, with ISM reporting we’re already in a deep slowdown as export orders have dropped sharply. Job losses are starting to mount in WI and NC as well. LendingTree also reports MI is the state most likely to be in full recession in the near term. 45 likes to tout ‘his’ unemployment numbers (POTUS doesn’t hire people - companies do), but it’s pretty misleading since the coasts are strong and NV, WA, OR, TX and UT are leading in job growth and won’t play too differently
from 2016. Lots of challenges out there..
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extender
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:22 am

This Article sums it up. You can't please everyone, and every decent approach has been tried. As evidenced by the bevvy of threads, Trump is hated. He is hated because he steamrolled the liberal agenda. Keep at it, you will all guarantee a second term.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:31 am

extender wrote:
This Article sums it up. You can't please everyone, and every decent approach has been tried. As evidenced by the bevvy of threads, Trump is hated. He is hated because he steamrolled the liberal agenda. Keep at it, you will all guarantee a second term.


A slightly different but not too dissimilar take from a sometimes-controversial Never Trump conservative writer:

The big thing we’ve discovered over the past four years is the number of people for whom the actual content of ideas and policy is largely irrelevant, compared to the pure tribal satisfaction of venting their hatred for the “elites” and the “mainstream media.” The source of Donald Trump’s bizarre allure among conservatives is the constant, unrelenting intensity with which he allows them to indulge in this—a form of tribal hatred that is all the purer precisely because it has been freed from any pretense of having to be loyal to abstract principles.

In short, conservatives have sold their souls for the sheer pleasure of partisan hatred. And it’s not going to be easy to break this spell.


https://thebulwark.com/dear-republicans ... our-souls/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
extender
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:57 am

You keep spinning that point as mush as you desire, it isn't partisan hatred, its the liberals are flat out wrong. And they have no scruples in how they do it. They paid for a bogus report. Alleged Russian collusion, none was found, they have gone after Trump advisors, and a sense of right and wrong has come across many people. You and a few other stalwarts here keep dredging up wastewater; you try to sound educated and empathetic. It doesn't work, and most people sit and watch with a bucket of popcorn. Keep it up, Trump will win reelection.
 
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DL717
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:55 pm

extender wrote:
You keep spinning that point as mush as you desire, it isn't partisan hatred, its the liberals are flat out wrong. And they have no scruples in how they do it. They paid for a bogus report. Alleged Russian collusion, none was found, they have gone after Trump advisors, and a sense of right and wrong has come across many people. You and a few other stalwarts here keep dredging up wastewater; you try to sound educated and empathetic. It doesn't work, and most people sit and watch with a bucket of popcorn. Keep it up, Trump will win reelection.


The lefts desire to completely destroy anything that doesn’t conform their world view is rather disturbing. They even eat their own. Witness the recent response to Ellen sitting between former President Bush and Jerry Jones daughter at a football game.
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casinterest
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:08 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-originals/watch/maddow-reveals-a-little-known-scandal-in-betrayal-the-plot-that-won-the-white-house-1374873667508


I watched this program, although I do not care for Rachel Maddow usually. I found it very interesting and believable due to actual recordings and writings. In the end, it is a parallel to our present day occupant fifty years later. Treasonous behavior than and now.


Don't like sitting through long videos, so I found an article that gets to the meat of the issue.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... t-3595441/

Nixon Prolonged Vietnam War for Political Gain—And Johnson Knew About It, Newly Unclassified Tapes Suggest


The issue is that Nixon went in and mucked with the Paris peace talks in order to win. Nixon barely won, so the plot may or may not have had bearing. However the real bad behavior here was Johnson, who understood what was going on, but didn't want to admit he was spying too. Either way bad behavior all the way around, and it cost a lot more lives, as the Vietnam war would roll on into 1973.
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Aaron747
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:09 pm

DL717 wrote:
extender wrote:
You keep spinning that point as mush as you desire, it isn't partisan hatred, its the liberals are flat out wrong. And they have no scruples in how they do it. They paid for a bogus report. Alleged Russian collusion, none was found, they have gone after Trump advisors, and a sense of right and wrong has come across many people. You and a few other stalwarts here keep dredging up wastewater; you try to sound educated and empathetic. It doesn't work, and most people sit and watch with a bucket of popcorn. Keep it up, Trump will win reelection.


The lefts desire to completely destroy anything that doesn’t conform their world view is rather disturbing. They even eat their own. Witness the recent response to Ellen sitting between former President Bush and Jerry Jones daughter at a football game.


Yeah yeah, sure. Intelligent people who can think for themselves, left, center, independent, Trump-hating whatever, are not a monolith. Ellen is a great entertainer who brings joy to millions, and has a right to be friends with whoever she pleases - if Susan Sarandon and Mark Ruffalo are offended, who gives a shit? I certainly don't care what they think about her.
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Aaron747
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:21 pm

extender wrote:
Alleged Russian collusion, none was found, they have gone after Trump advisors, and a sense of right and wrong has come across many people.


Pure spin, as we have been over before. Repeating opinions ad nauseam does not change material facts. You state this as if it is a definitive result when it is only the result of the Mueller report. Many things were found, but not enough to meet a definitive evidentiary standard suitable for a criminal case. An objective legal analysis does not conclude that therefore 'nothing happened' or 'there was no there there'.

It is important to keep in mind that the Report’s analysis is about whether or not to prosecute someone for a crime. Furthermore, statements that the investigation “did not establish” something occurred are not the same as saying there was “no evidence” that it occurred. The Report has clear ways of saying when the investigation found no evidence. It conveys the absence of any evidence when, for example, it states the investigation “did not identify evidence” or “did not uncover evidence” that something occurred. Even then, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

https://www.justsecurity.org/63838/guid ... collusion/

And it is intellectually dishonest to make such claims of 'nothing was found' without conceding the investigation was incomplete. Believing it never should have been conducted is not the same thing.

The failure to find enough evidence to support a conclusion that crimes were committed in the run up to the 2016 election, then, should not be viewed as a finding that the Trump campaign was “cleared” or that Mueller “found no collusion.” This is not to say that had Mueller been able to take every investigatory step he sought, he would have found enough evidence to charge a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia. We don’t know what the additional evidence would have shown. There is even the possibility that the additional evidence would have painted a more innocent picture of Trump and his associates.

What we do know is that steps were taken to keep the full truth from the investigators. Mueller found “numerous links” between Russia and the Trump campaign that are deeply troubling, but the evidence was insufficient to establish a violation of the conspiracy statute. Deliberate efforts by Trump and his associates contributed to that result.


https://www.justsecurity.org/64679/did- ... stigation/

Anything other than material rebuttals to such logical statements is just feelings, one way or the other.
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:29 pm

DL717 wrote:
They even eat their own.




This is what Accountability and Personal Responsibility look like to someone like you.


Aaron747 wrote:
A slightly different but not too dissimilar take from a sometimes-controversial Never Trump conservative writer:

The big thing we’ve discovered over the past four years is the number of people for whom the actual content of ideas and policy is largely irrelevant, compared to the pure tribal satisfaction of venting their hatred for the “elites” and the “mainstream media.” The source of Donald Trump’s bizarre allure among conservatives is the constant, unrelenting intensity with which he allows them to indulge in this—a form of tribal hatred that is all the purer precisely because it has been freed from any pretense of having to be loyal to abstract principles.

In short, conservatives have sold their souls for the sheer pleasure of partisan hatred. And it’s not going to be easy to break this spell.


https://thebulwark.com/dear-republicans ... our-souls/


This comment in particular is of interest. There is a fervor over the last serveral years to compare trump and his cohorts to the rise of the third reich. And while it is not inaccurate to point out the numerous similarities, I do tend to find such outlooks overstocked with simplistic rhetoric.

What I do see a far more valid historic series of events to compare this developing social illness to would be the Russian Revolution; 1917, not 1905. It is not a new thought, by any means. But anyone who is at all historically and socially literate should note with concern how far and to where this level of populistic fear of all things educated and competent leads.

In the broadest terms, it is difficult to look at the maga crowd even as true conservatives at this point. But rather, an angry, unfocused and mal-intentioned mob who's own lack of self-awareness closely mimics the growing dementia of its own leader.
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Aaron747
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:39 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
DL717 wrote:
They even eat their own.




This is what Accountability and Personal Responsibility look like to someone like you.


Aaron747 wrote:
A slightly different but not too dissimilar take from a sometimes-controversial Never Trump conservative writer:

The big thing we’ve discovered over the past four years is the number of people for whom the actual content of ideas and policy is largely irrelevant, compared to the pure tribal satisfaction of venting their hatred for the “elites” and the “mainstream media.” The source of Donald Trump’s bizarre allure among conservatives is the constant, unrelenting intensity with which he allows them to indulge in this—a form of tribal hatred that is all the purer precisely because it has been freed from any pretense of having to be loyal to abstract principles.

In short, conservatives have sold their souls for the sheer pleasure of partisan hatred. And it’s not going to be easy to break this spell.


https://thebulwark.com/dear-republicans ... our-souls/


This comment in particular is of interest. There is a fervor over the last serveral years to compare trump and his cohorts to the rise of the third reich. And while it is not inaccurate to point out the numerous similarities, I do tend to find such outlooks overstocked with simplistic rhetoric.

What I do see a far more valid historic series of events to compare this developing social illness to would be the Russian Revolution; 1917, not 1905. It is not a new thought, by any means. But anyone who is at all historically and socially literate should note with concern how far and to where this level of populistic fear of all things educated and competent leads.

In the broadest terms, it is difficult to look at the maga crowd even as true conservatives at this point. But rather, an angry, unfocused and mal-intentioned mob who's own lack of self-awareness closely mimics the growing dementia of its own leader.


I agree, because a lot of them are not true conservatives, although many perhaps once were. What seems to be uniting factor is as you describe - some kind of unfocused, almost misanthropic quality. Anecdotally, I rarely see people of this type expressing any kind of joy or curiosity. There are dyed in the wool conservatives amongst my colleagues and elder family members, and while we don't agree on everything politically, it is easy to have a rational and humorous conversation with nearly all of them - they are interested in travel, learning about new things, and almost categorically reject the antics coming from this White House (and DC in general).
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:43 pm

extender wrote:
This Article sums it up. You can't please everyone, and every decent approach has been tried. As evidenced by the bevvy of threads, Trump is hated. He is hated because he steamrolled the liberal agenda. Keep at it, you will all guarantee a second term.



Yes I keep hearing this from people who have no credibility. I’m beginning to think the freak show needs to hear it because they know they’re complicit and they’re going down. Wonder what co workers would think if they knew the extent of the craziness.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:56 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
All these treads will lead nowhere because you have believers defending the current occupied of the white house.


And those who have decided he's guilty of a crime even though the DOJ immediately said it wasn't.


That would be the same DOJ that lied about the content of the Mueller Report in its summary?

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seb146
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:48 pm

DL717 wrote:
extender wrote:
You keep spinning that point as mush as you desire, it isn't partisan hatred, its the liberals are flat out wrong. And they have no scruples in how they do it. They paid for a bogus report. Alleged Russian collusion, none was found, they have gone after Trump advisors, and a sense of right and wrong has come across many people. You and a few other stalwarts here keep dredging up wastewater; you try to sound educated and empathetic. It doesn't work, and most people sit and watch with a bucket of popcorn. Keep it up, Trump will win reelection.


The lefts desire to completely destroy anything that doesn’t conform their world view is rather disturbing. They even eat their own. Witness the recent response to Ellen sitting between former President Bush and Jerry Jones daughter at a football game.


Actually, people are divided on the Ellen/GBW thing. Most people don't care. The ones that do, righties are pointing to the anti-Ellen/GWB and insisting this is all liberals. It is not. Get over it. Football is like religion in the South. Ellen is from Louisiana, GWB is from Texas. They bond over football. So what? Yet, no rightie will point to my statement and whine about "liberals being bad" or whatever your script says.

No one paid for any report. Mueller found corruption in the swamp. Russia had a hand in the election keeping Hillary out of the White House. You righties ate it up like candy and you all are still doing their bidding. They are loving it! Maybe open your minds and understand that it did not happen the way you were told by your propaganda and this administration has never drained the swamp and is, in fact, obstructing justice. Just the way you all say Obama did with zero proof. You all were told something and you all ran with it.

Republican tears will taste sooooooooo good November 2020! It will be HILARIOUS to watch the clown show of "we need to impeach!" and the endless investigations finding nothing upon nothing upon nothing to remove President Elizabeth Warren!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:51 pm

johnboy wrote:
extender wrote:
This Article sums it up. You can't please everyone, and every decent approach has been tried. As evidenced by the bevvy of threads, Trump is hated. He is hated because he steamrolled the liberal agenda. Keep at it, you will all guarantee a second term.



Yes I keep hearing this from people who have no credibility. I’m beginning to think the freak show needs to hear it because they know they’re complicit and they’re going down. Wonder what co workers would think if they knew the extent of the craziness.


John, you are missing the point of the op/ed piece. The mayor of Livermore, by his own admission, LIED TO VOTERS about his party affiliation. He lied. Just like ALL MAGA leaders do.

Nevermind the article is an op-ed piece. Not any facts. Just lies and opinions.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
extender
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:57 am

Crying over spilled milk. Some have to attack the credibility as if they have some moral superiority. Politicians; they all lie. Every single one of them. But please, carry on, this is the broken record that will ensure a reelection in 2020.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:39 am

casinterest wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-originals/watch/maddow-reveals-a-little-known-scandal-in-betrayal-the-plot-that-won-the-white-house-1374873667508


I watched this program, although I do not care for Rachel Maddow usually. I found it very interesting and believable due to actual recordings and writings. In the end, it is a parallel to our present day occupant fifty years later. Treasonous behavior than and now.


Don't like sitting through long videos, so I found an article that gets to the meat of the issue.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... t-3595441/

Nixon Prolonged Vietnam War for Political Gain—And Johnson Knew About It, Newly Unclassified Tapes Suggest


The issue is that Nixon went in and mucked with the Paris peace talks in order to win. Nixon barely won, so the plot may or may not have had bearing. However the real bad behavior here was Johnson, who understood what was going on, but didn't want to admit he was spying too. Either way bad behavior all the way around, and it cost a lot more lives, as the Vietnam war would roll on into 1973.


According to the figures cited in the program, approximately 20K killed and many more maimed and wounded during that time frame. 20k, roll that off your tongue. All in the name of ambition..
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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seb146
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:03 am

extender wrote:
Crying over spilled milk. Some have to attack the credibility as if they have some moral superiority. Politicians; they all lie. Every single one of them. But please, carry on, this is the broken record that will ensure a reelection in 2020.


So you support the status quo, all the hate and lies and rape and murder and legislating against minorities and LGBTQ people because "both sides to it". I am not asking. I am telling you exactly what I am reading. You don't want other Americans have rights. Both sides do it is the excuse to hate anyone not white, heterosexual, evangelical, male (WHEM).

But please carry on this whining of how you all are oppressed. This will ensure a Democratic landslide in 2020.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:25 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

I agree, because a lot of them are not true conservatives, although many perhaps once were. What seems to be uniting factor is as you describe - some kind of unfocused, almost misanthropic quality. Anecdotally, I rarely see people of this type expressing any kind of joy or curiosity. There are dyed in the wool conservatives amongst my colleagues and elder family members, and while we don't agree on everything politically, it is easy to have a rational and humorous conversation with nearly all of them - they are interested in travel, learning about new things, and almost categorically reject the antics coming from this White House (and DC in general).


I have observed that as well. If we take a look at even these threads, it really does appear that being mean-spirited is the only source of joy for a lot of these types. No surprise that this would appeal to regressives and racists as much as it does. And while I will freely admit to returning the favor when there is a distinct call for it, for these types, it really does appear that that is all they have. In that respect, it is almost a shame they are not competent at even that. . .

The second category you mention is something I am pretty familiar with. I would say that a fair amount of my own friends and associates are in this grouping. Some may stay the course and vote for this again, but most indicate they will either sit it out, or go over to the Dark Side.
In fact, about this time last week, I was surprised to hear a good friend of mine --who has been fairly conservative his entire 63 years-- seriously considering Bernie.

I will also add that I think there is a third type of trump voter. I can completely understand a protest vote in 2016; Hillary left an awful lot to be desired. But for many people, it is difficult, bordering on impossible to resist the Sunk Cost Fallacy this administration appeals to. There is a desire to stay the course, or even to straight up pretend things are not as bad as they are.
More or less the entire duration of my marriage filled that category, so this is a thing I have no trouble believing to be possible here. . .
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zkojq
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:36 am

EA CO AS wrote:
He never said, "Go get dirt on Biden," by the way, but made a legitimate request of another head of state to investigate possible criminal wrongdoing, which it's his prerogative to do, especially since there's a longstanding agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine to cooperate with regard to criminal justice investigations.


You don't even believe that. If this wasn't about trying to take out political opponents, he wouldn't have asked China to investigate Biden and Warren. But of course the moron was just too stupid not to say that.
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LittleSprocket
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:27 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

I agree, because a lot of them are not true conservatives, although many perhaps once were. What seems to be uniting factor is as you describe - some kind of unfocused, almost misanthropic quality. Anecdotally, I rarely see people of this type expressing any kind of joy or curiosity. There are dyed in the wool conservatives amongst my colleagues and elder family members, and while we don't agree on everything politically, it is easy to have a rational and humorous conversation with nearly all of them - they are interested in travel, learning about new things, and almost categorically reject the antics coming from this White House (and DC in general).


I have observed that as well. If we take a look at even these threads, it really does appear that being mean-spirited is the only source of joy for a lot of these types. No surprise that this would appeal to regressives and racists as much as it does. And while I will freely admit to returning the favor when there is a distinct call for it, for these types, it really does appear that that is all they have. In that respect, it is almost a shame they are not competent at even that. . .

The second category you mention is something I am pretty familiar with. I would say that a fair amount of my own friends and associates are in this grouping. Some may stay the course and vote for this again, but most indicate they will either sit it out, or go over to the Dark Side.
In fact, about this time last week, I was surprised to hear a good friend of mine --who has been fairly conservative his entire 63 years-- seriously considering Bernie.

I will also add that I think there is a third type of trump voter. I can completely understand a protest vote in 2016; Hillary left an awful lot to be desired. But for many people, it is difficult, bordering on impossible to resist the Sunk Cost Fallacy this administration appeals to. There is a desire to stay the course, or even to straight up pretend things are not as bad as they are.
More or less the entire duration of my marriage filled that category, so this is a thing I have no trouble believing to be possible here. . .


What are you going on about again? You lost me when you started calling those that call out the usual posters here regressive and racists. So people like you not comprehend that calling those that disagree with you words that can’t be backed up by fact is exactly why nobody takes your crying seriously? You post this nonsense yet don’t bring up the usual posters that post about Trump day in and day out... cry me a river.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: The plot that won the White House.

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:55 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

I agree, because a lot of them are not true conservatives, although many perhaps once were. What seems to be uniting factor is as you describe - some kind of unfocused, almost misanthropic quality. Anecdotally, I rarely see people of this type expressing any kind of joy or curiosity. There are dyed in the wool conservatives amongst my colleagues and elder family members, and while we don't agree on everything politically, it is easy to have a rational and humorous conversation with nearly all of them - they are interested in travel, learning about new things, and almost categorically reject the antics coming from this White House (and DC in general).


I have observed that as well. If we take a look at even these threads, it really does appear that being mean-spirited is the only source of joy for a lot of these types. No surprise that this would appeal to regressives and racists as much as it does. And while I will freely admit to returning the favor when there is a distinct call for it, for these types, it really does appear that that is all they have. In that respect, it is almost a shame they are not competent at even that. . .

The second category you mention is something I am pretty familiar with. I would say that a fair amount of my own friends and associates are in this grouping. Some may stay the course and vote for this again, but most indicate they will either sit it out, or go over to the Dark Side.
In fact, about this time last week, I was surprised to hear a good friend of mine --who has been fairly conservative his entire 63 years-- seriously considering Bernie.

I will also add that I think there is a third type of trump voter. I can completely understand a protest vote in 2016; Hillary left an awful lot to be desired. But for many people, it is difficult, bordering on impossible to resist the Sunk Cost Fallacy this administration appeals to. There is a desire to stay the course, or even to straight up pretend things are not as bad as they are.
More or less the entire duration of my marriage filled that category, so this is a thing I have no trouble believing to be possible here. . .


What are you going on about again? You lost me when you started calling those that call out the usual posters here regressive and racists. So people like you not comprehend that calling those that disagree with you words that can’t be backed up by fact is exactly why nobody takes your crying seriously? You post this nonsense yet don’t bring up the usual posters that post about Trump day in and day out... cry me a river.


Thank you for your attention.

But after a quick glance --and chuckle-- at your general postings, it turns out that you have the appearance of being highly emotive and fact averse. Of course you have the privilege to act that way, but the expectation of getting a considered response from someone with the time limitations I have is... highly optimistic, to say the least.

When you are willing to change these things, and present a thought that is less... scattered, I will be happy to lend you a seat at the grown-up's table.

Thanks again.
"Ya Can't Win, Rocky! There's no Oxygen on Mars!"
"Yeah? That means there's no Oxygen for him Neither..."

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