ArchGuy1
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Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:31 am

It seems like that the City of Long Beach is threatening to terminate the Queen Mary's lease by Urban Commons over maintenance issued including insufficient repair progress. Has happened before since the ship opened in Long Beach in 1971 with previous operators including Marriott, Hyatt, and Disney.
https://www.presstelegram.com/2019/10/0 ... -progress/
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:48 am

Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sat Oct 12, 2019 3:35 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.

It would be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary as it is on the National Register of Historic Places. Also, the Queen Mary is the iconic symbol of Long Beach in the same way the Space Needle is for Seattle or the Empire State Building is for New York.
 
WidebodyPTV
Posts: 21
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:48 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.

It would be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary as it is on the National Register of Historic Places. Also, the Queen Mary is the iconic symbol of Long Beach in the same way the Space Needle is for Seattle or the Empire State Building is for New York.


The Queen Mary doesn’t receive federal funds, therefore it wouldn’t be illegal to scrap it:
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nationalregister/faqs.htm

Many community leaders have desired to scrap it for over 30 years, as it’s generally been a dumpster fire. The LA Times editorial board proposed such just A few years ago, calling the $300M renovation cost wasteful.

Nor is the Queen Mary as iconic as the Empire State Building. I’d imagine that the population, including that of the Southland region, who knows that the Queen Mary is docked at Long Beach is pretty small. Even the ones that do, myself included, don’t associate LB with the Queen. Heck, LB is a much different place today that it was in the 80s,90s,and 00s.
 
TSS
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:34 am

WidebodyPTV wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.

It would be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary as it is on the National Register of Historic Places. Also, the Queen Mary is the iconic symbol of Long Beach in the same way the Space Needle is for Seattle or the Empire State Building is for New York.


The Queen Mary doesn’t receive federal funds, therefore it wouldn’t be illegal to scrap it:
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nationalregister/faqs.htm

Many community leaders have desired to scrap it for over 30 years, as it’s generally been a dumpster fire. The LA Times editorial board proposed such just A few years ago, calling the $300M renovation cost wasteful.

Nor is the Queen Mary as iconic as the Empire State Building. I’d imagine that the population, including that of the Southland region, who knows that the Queen Mary is docked at Long Beach is pretty small. Even the ones that do, myself included, don’t associate LB with the Queen. Heck, LB is a much different place today that it was in the 80s,90s,and 00s.


Ships in general have been aptly described as "Holes in the water that you pour money into" because of their constant and unavoidable need for maintenance, and because of her size and age the Queen Mary offers an extraordinary example of this. It sounds as though a lot of necessary maintenance that should have been being performed on a regular basis from the day she arrived has been either deferred or neglected entirely until the situation has reached a critical breaking point. Assuming the $300 million is spent to refurbish her AND appropriate funds are allocated to provide adequate regular maintenance so this situation doesn't arise again, how long before the Queen Mary begins turning a profit or at least breaking even?
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ArchGuy1
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:55 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.

It would be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary as it is on the National Register of Historic Places. Also, the Queen Mary is the iconic symbol of Long Beach in the same way the Space Needle is for Seattle or the Empire State Building is for New York.


The Queen Mary doesn’t receive federal funds, therefore it wouldn’t be illegal to scrap it:
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nationalregister/faqs.htm

Many community leaders have desired to scrap it for over 30 years, as it’s generally been a dumpster fire. The LA Times editorial board proposed such just A few years ago, calling the $300M renovation cost wasteful.

Nor is the Queen Mary as iconic as the Empire State Building. I’d imagine that the population, including that of the Southland region, who knows that the Queen Mary is docked at Long Beach is pretty small. Even the ones that do, myself included, don’t associate LB with the Queen. Heck, LB is a much different place today that it was in the 80s,90s,and 00s.

What makes Long Beach a different place today than in the 2000's.
 
TSS
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:01 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
It would be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary as it is on the National Register of Historic Places. Also, the Queen Mary is the iconic symbol of Long Beach in the same way the Space Needle is for Seattle or the Empire State Building is for New York.


The Queen Mary doesn’t receive federal funds, therefore it wouldn’t be illegal to scrap it:
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nationalregister/faqs.htm

Many community leaders have desired to scrap it for over 30 years, as it’s generally been a dumpster fire. The LA Times editorial board proposed such just A few years ago, calling the $300M renovation cost wasteful.

Nor is the Queen Mary as iconic as the Empire State Building. I’d imagine that the population, including that of the Southland region, who knows that the Queen Mary is docked at Long Beach is pretty small. Even the ones that do, myself included, don’t associate LB with the Queen. Heck, LB is a much different place today that it was in the 80s,90s,and 00s.


What makes Long Beach a different place today than in the 2000's?


Long Beach's continued regentrification.

And ArchGuy, please use a question mark ( ? ) at the end of sentences that are intended as questions to signify that they are questions and not statements.
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ArchGuy1
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:49 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.

It would be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary as it is on the National Register of Historic Places. Also, the Queen Mary is the iconic symbol of Long Beach in the same way the Space Needle is for Seattle or the Empire State Building is for New York.


The Queen Mary doesn’t receive federal funds, therefore it wouldn’t be illegal to scrap it:
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nationalregister/faqs.htm

Many community leaders have desired to scrap it for over 30 years, as it’s generally been a dumpster fire. The LA Times editorial board proposed such just A few years ago, calling the $300M renovation cost wasteful.

Nor is the Queen Mary as iconic as the Empire State Building. I’d imagine that the population, including that of the Southland region, who knows that the Queen Mary is docked at Long Beach is pretty small. Even the ones that do, myself included, don’t associate LB with the Queen. Heck, LB is a much different place today that it was in the 80s,90s,and 00s.

It may be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary under California law though, since it is on the National Register of Historic Places and California law may be stricter than federal law.
 
johns624
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:21 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
It may be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary under California law though, since it is on the National Register of Historic Places and California law may be stricter than federal law.
Find out for us and report back. I'd find that interesting.
 
FGITD
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:26 am

As far as I can find, it's not illegal to scrap it despite the landmark status. It makes it a bit more difficult, but that's it. And it seems "let me scrap it or else it's going to sink" would be a compelling enough argument.

It's a shame to see the ship come to this, but is literally 50 years behind on maintenance. And everyone loves to claim it's a landmark, the city loves it etc etc....until it's time to pay for it.
 
ArchGuy1
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Posts: 415
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:15 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.

It would be illegal to scrap the Queen Mary as it is on the National Register of Historic Places. Also, the Queen Mary is the iconic symbol of Long Beach in the same way the Space Needle is for Seattle or the Empire State Building is for New York.


The Queen Mary doesn’t receive federal funds, therefore it wouldn’t be illegal to scrap it:
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/nationalregister/faqs.htm
Many community leaders have desired to scrap it for over 30 years, as it’s generally been a dumpster fire. The LA Times editorial board proposed such just A few years ago, calling the $300M renovation cost wasteful.

Nor is the Queen Mary as iconic as the Empire State Building. I’d imagine that the population, including that of the Southland region, who knows that the Queen Mary is docked at Long Beach is pretty small. Even the ones that do, myself included, don’t associate LB with the Queen. Heck, LB is a much different place today that it was in the 80s,90s,and 00s.

The Queen Mary sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, about the same number that visit the Seattle Space Needle, CN Tower in Toronto, Las Vegas High Roller observation wheel, and the observation deck of the Sears Tower in Chicago.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:32 pm

No one in America thought of keeping her in a dry dock?
Has always been a strange one, a trans-Atlantic liner retired to a port to which she never called (in service) on the Pacific.
 
johns624
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:38 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Queen Mary sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, about the same number that visit the Seattle Space Needle, CN Tower in Toronto, Las Vegas High Roller observation wheel, and the observation deck of the Sears Tower in Chicago.
Their attendance numbers mean nothing here. What are the maintenance costs of the QM vs. those other venues? Have you done the research to see if it can be scrapped?
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:20 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Queen Mary sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, about the same number that visit the Seattle Space Needle, CN Tower in Toronto, Las Vegas High Roller observation wheel, and the observation deck of the Sears Tower in Chicago.
Their attendance numbers mean nothing here. What are the maintenance costs of the QM vs. those other venues? Have you done the research to see if it can be scrapped?

I have heard that scrapping the Queen Mary would be an environmental hazard. Also, the thought of doing so would bring a huge outcry.
 
TSS
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:50 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Queen Mary sees about 1.5 million paying visitors a year, about the same number that visit the Seattle Space Needle, CN Tower in Toronto, Las Vegas High Roller observation wheel, and the observation deck of the Sears Tower in Chicago.


Their attendance numbers mean nothing here. What are the maintenance costs of the QM vs. those other venues? Have you done the research to see if it can be scrapped?


I have heard that scrapping the Queen Mary would be an environmental hazard.


It shouldn't be any more so than any other ship. Remove the asbestos insulation (of which there is probably literally tons) and clean out any oil sludge or petroleum products left in the fuel tanks, the engine room, and the bilge and that's about it.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Also, the thought of doing so would bring a huge outcry.


There's always a "huge outcry" any time anything old is destroyed, no matter how decrepit, outdated, and sometimes outright dangerous the thing in question has become due to damage or, as is the case with the Queen Mary, sheer neglect by the owners. The thing is, it is extremely rare for the ones who are crying out to be willing to accept any responsibility at all, monetary or personal, for the refurbishment and/or repair of the thing they're crying out about. Sure, they shout "Somebody should do something!" for all to hear, but then very quietly under their breath they whisper "...as long as that somebody isn't me".
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ArchGuy1
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:04 am

FGITD wrote:
As far as I can find, it's not illegal to scrap it despite the landmark status. It makes it a bit more difficult, but that's it. And it seems "let me scrap it or else it's going to sink" would be a compelling enough argument.

Are you referring to California state law or US federal law.
 
FGITD
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:20 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
As far as I can find, it's not illegal to scrap it despite the landmark status. It makes it a bit more difficult, but that's it. And it seems "let me scrap it or else it's going to sink" would be a compelling enough argument.

Are you referring to California state law or US federal law.


Both. I didn't look too deep because...i simply can't be bothered. But the national register of historic places list has always fluctuated as places are removed, destroyed, etc. Matter of fact, in the last 20 years almost 1000 places on the that register have been demolished, whether intentional or not
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:54 pm

WidebodyPTV wrote:
Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.

If anything needs to go, it is that Russian submarine next to the Queen Mary that has nowhere near the historic value as the QM. The Queen Mary should stay as it is Long Beach like the Gateway Arch is St.Louis or the Space Needle is Seattle. The Queen Mary is also more historically significant than that Russian sub.
 
TSS
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:08 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
WidebodyPTV wrote:
Allegedly, the ship needs over $300M in repairs. IMO, given LB’s continued regentrification - including the possibility of luring the Angeles from Anaheim - they should just scrap the Queen Mary and put the money to better use.


If anything needs to go, it is that Russian submarine next to the Queen Mary that has nowhere near the historic value as the QM. The Queen Mary should stay as it is Long Beach like the Gateway Arch is St.Louis or the Space Needle is Seattle. The Queen Mary is also more historically significant than that Russian sub.


I don't quite follow your logic there. Getting rid of the sub won't effect the amount of long-term neglect the Queen Mary has suffered nor the price of the repairs she needs.
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johns624
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:20 pm

TSS wrote:

I don't quite follow your logic there.
There's your problem right there. He's not Mr Spock.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:38 pm

Why is she even floating? Just pump a few million tons of concrete under her and have be on "hard ground" so to speak and be done with the fantasy that she is a ship of the seas any more.

I love the ship and her history but she is not "that" anymore. Wonderful and beautiful as she is, she is now a hotel and tourist site and just acknowledging that and putting her on a hard foundation would help her.

Tugg
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Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
Redd
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:31 pm

The MS Queen Elizabeth cost around $500 million to construct from scratch, all fitted out. How the heck can the repair price for the Queen Mary (keeping in mind she's not being restored to seaworthy condition) be $300 Million?
Image
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:36 pm

Tugger wrote:
Why is she even floating? Just pump a few million tons of concrete under her and have be on "hard ground" so to speak and be done with the fantasy that she is a ship of the seas any more.

I love the ship and her history but she is not "that" anymore. Wonderful and beautiful as she is, she is now a hotel and tourist site and just acknowledging that and putting her on a hard foundation would help her.

Tugg

Putting the Queen Mary in drydock would rot the ship faster.
 
TSS
Posts: 3300
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:37 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Why is she even floating? Just pump a few million tons of concrete under her and have be on "hard ground" so to speak and be done with the fantasy that she is a ship of the seas any more.

I love the ship and her history but she is not "that" anymore. Wonderful and beautiful as she is, she is now a hotel and tourist site and just acknowledging that and putting her on a hard foundation would help her.

Tugg

Putting the Queen Mary in drydock would rot the ship faster.


How would putting the Queen Mary in dry dock cause it to rot faster?
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johns624
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Re: Current Condition of the Queen Mary

Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:26 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Why is she even floating? Just pump a few million tons of concrete under her and have be on "hard ground" so to speak and be done with the fantasy that she is a ship of the seas any more.

I love the ship and her history but she is not "that" anymore. Wonderful and beautiful as she is, she is now a hotel and tourist site and just acknowledging that and putting her on a hard foundation would help her.

Tugg

Putting the Queen Mary in drydock would rot the ship faster.
Would you mind explaining that to us?

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