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edmountain
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AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:58 am

Article in French, but the gist of it is that in keeping with recent Government of Canada changes that allow people to identify as gender "X" on their passports, Air Canada announcements will soon change to using a gender-neutral term. No more "Good evening ladies and gentlemen", but instead something like "Good evening everybody". This information comes from an internal communication obtained by La Presse newspaper in Montreal. As per this memo, the changes reflect Air Canada's ongoing efforts to respect sexual identiy, diversity, and inclusion. The changes will soon be reflected in Air Canada's Onboard Announcement Manual.

https://www.lapresse.ca/affaires/entrep ... canada.php
 
DexSwart
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:12 am

I like this, good on AC for being more inclusive.

I also think “hello everybody” sounds much more casual and friendly anyway.

Even “Hello ACxxx!” Works fine for me.

Now to wait for everyone saying the world is “too PC”
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
Jetty
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:18 am

Avoiding gendered language is a great step forward for mankind!
 
Magnolia
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:31 am

I think it's a little odd, but getting upset over a company deciding to making such a small change is silly. Does it affect you that much that your experience is ruined if you don't hear "ladies and gentlemen"? If it makes some people feel more comfortable, then more power to them.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:38 am

Glad they are placating such a small portion of the public. But these days, most women aren't ladies and most men aren't gentlemen, so should have given up saying it years ago....
Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
 
ACDC8
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:28 am

Magnolia wrote:
I think it's a little odd, but getting upset over a company deciding to making such a small change is silly. Does it affect you that much that your experience is ruined if you don't hear "ladies and gentlemen"? If it makes some people feel more comfortable, then more power to them.

I think it's a little odd that people get so upset that a company actually has to change a polite and courteous greeting just to make them "comfortable".

Just another step backwards into the downward spiralling rabbit hole of "feelings".
Last edited by ACDC8 on Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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flyer1225
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:33 am

Magnolia wrote:
I think it's a little odd, but getting upset over a company deciding to making such a small change is silly. Does it affect you that much that your experience is ruined if you don't hear "ladies and gentlemen"? If it makes some people feel more comfortable, then more power to them.


This, this, and this 1000x over. If something as simple as this perturbs you when in reality it has no impact on your life whatsoever and makes some OTHER person's life better, you need to reevaluate who you're calling sensitive or possessing weak sensibilities.
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Boof
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:48 am

Qantas have been saying “hello everyone” for quite a few years now. Having the CEO as an openly gay community leader has helped their business become very progressive in the modern era.

Took me a little while to get used to not but now I quite like the greeting.
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:03 am

This is nothing more than meaningless tokenism and it shall do absolutely nothing.

Transwomen are included under "ladies" and transmen are included under "gentlemen" so I don't see how "ladies and gentlemen" isn't inclusive.

By the same token, this won't 'destroy society' either. So social conservatives shouldn't panic over it. Its a niggling annoyance, not "the death of Western civilization as we know it."

Its annoying corporate grandstanding, though. And I don't think anyone will actually change who they fly with as a result of this.
 
ben175
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:08 am

StudiodeKadent wrote:
This is nothing more than meaningless tokenism and it shall do absolutely nothing.

Transwomen are included under "ladies" and transmen are included under "gentlemen" so I don't see how "ladies and gentlemen" isn't inclusive.


And what about people who identify as genderfluid or non-binary?

I can guarantee that most people who would be up in arms about this are cisgender straight white men over the age of 40. If small changes like this impact someones life for the better, who cares what you think when it has nothing to do with you?

Well done AC!
 
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FlyRow
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:44 am

Dutch railways did the same, after two trips you dont notice the difference. So if some feel better and most dont notice the difference, Who cares about a small change.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:53 am

Maybe all employees should just stay quiet except for required safety and flight information. You know some people are going to cry foul if they get mis-gendered and some people will try it just to see what kind of compensation they can get. Best to just keep it as cold and impersonal as possible. As for passengers. Just keep your head down and don't talk to anyone. Can't risk offending anyone.
 
axiom
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:58 am

The only people offended by this are those who have no idea what they’re talking about. Ignorance is bliss — or, in this case, bluster.
 
ME720
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:02 am

How stupid! Really..
What about the majority who identify as ladies and or gentlemen? People have to compromise and accept that the good morning is meant to everyone on that plane.. good morning ladies and gentlemen includes everyone..
It s like not wishing a happy x Mas anymore but happy holidays! What next? Good morning will sound offensive to someone out there.. we will have to say good day!
Good morning ladies and gentlemen is not the same as good morning everyone ..not as elegant and is less formal.. they will probably have to say: good morning from the crew.. wait that might offend someone as well.. or should be them instead of the crew? Really ridiculous..
 
HBJZA
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:09 am

Magnolia wrote:
I think it's a little odd, but getting upset over a company deciding to making such a small change is silly. Does it affect you that much that your experience is ruined if you don't hear "ladies and gentlemen"? If it makes some people feel more comfortable, then more power to them.

While I agree with what you say, why would it affect so much the 0,001% of the world population that actually feel neither lady nor gentleman to hear it broadcast through a tannoy?
 
sibibom
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:15 am

Has there been an incident where the trans/non-binary community has gotten offended by Air Canada? Why are people talking about them getting offended by everything?

Or is it a case of a company pro-actively making an inclusive space for trans people, but yet not taking any rights of the cis-gendered folks...and some people are now offended by that?
 
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Francoflier
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:38 am

I wonder if those who are perpetually offended and engaged at inconsequential changes around them to accommodate what they perceive as being perpetually offended and engaged people every see the underlying irony...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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OA940
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:42 am

Uh oh, it's a step forward towards equality and inclusiveness that has no negative part whatsoever. The heteros are upsetteros
A350/CSeries = bae
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:00 am

I'm offended by humans and I can't wait to fly without them.
Caravelle lover
 
LMFNINJA
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:43 am

AC should devote its energy to improving its terrible service in economy class instead of wasting time and money on politically correct nonsense.
 
skipness1E
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:53 am

OA940 wrote:
Uh oh, it's a step forward towards equality and inclusiveness that has no negative part whatsoever. The heteros are upsetteros

You literally just conflated sexuality and gender identity.....”Ladies and Gentleman” is fine for me, and I sure as Hell ain’t straight. Y’all trying to hard to be SEEN as progressive.
 
VV
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:54 am

I am not even sure they feel excluded.

Perhaps they should push it even further, "Good morning mortal humans."
 
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OA940
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:04 am

skipness1E wrote:
OA940 wrote:
Uh oh, it's a step forward towards equality and inclusiveness that has no negative part whatsoever. The heteros are upsetteros

You literally just conflated sexuality and gender identity.....”Ladies and Gentleman” is fine for me, and I sure as Hell ain’t straight. Y’all trying to hard to be SEEN as progressive.


I don't really care what you are sexuality-wise, but conservative behaviour is usually reserved for a certain group... I guess being close-minded is more spread out than I thought. Even though I would genuinely like for you to point out why this is a bad thing.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
ME720
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:07 am

VV wrote:
I am not even sure they feel excluded.

Perhaps they should push it even further, "Good morning mortal humans."


Or :” we wish what was formally known as ladies and gentlemen a good morning.”
 
MareBorealis
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:36 am

Jetty wrote:
Avoiding gendered language is a great step forward for mankind!


So you could say Finnish language has been progressive from the very beginning ;) It only has gender-neutral pronouns and completely lacks grammatical gender. The word 'hän' means both he and she.

"Ladies and Gentlemen" is used on Finnair but only in English. In Finnish it sounds very formal, the current version goes something like "Dear Passengers" in English.
 
arcticcruiser
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:43 am

I prefer flying cargo. Basically hassle free.
 
ChasChandler
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:13 am

Magnolia wrote:
I think it's a little odd, but getting upset over a company deciding to making such a small change is silly. Does it affect you that much that your experience is ruined if you don't hear "ladies and gentlemen"? If it makes some people feel more comfortable, then more power to them.

Death by a thousand cuts.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:18 pm

"Greetings Earthlings" should cover all bases.
 
TheOldDude
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:33 pm

Airlines are in a box trying to serve the public. No matter what they do someone will be offended. Currently the people who are "traditional", believe in science, or both, are the least offended, and the "you are what you feel" people are most offended. In that environment, it makes a certain amount of business sense to choose the latter group over the former.

For airlines, it's all about the money.
 
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adambrau
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:43 pm

Maybe something along the lines "Air Canada wishes all our passengers a very pleasant flight/morning/afternoon/evening/night"? Might sound more professional/inclusive than "Air Canada wishes all/everyone/folks a very pleasant flight"?

Makes sense given AC is developing a new gender identifier other than M for Male or F fore female pax. I think the new category is U for people who don't want to be forced to identify.

Personally I think this is a positive move, bound to make anyone who holds onto tradition winge a little but if done properly most people won't notice and to those who do it will be a positive.
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KlimaBXsst
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:02 pm

Welcome aboard “its.”

What over paid VP in
which department
comes up with
such nonsense at A I R C A N A D A


....next we will be having to pc dogs and cats with the euphemism little furry creatures. For the love of deity.

Shareholders should not tolerate this waste of economic resources on this obviously in need of redundancy staff member, but apparently economics are different in Canada than other parts of the free enterprise world.

Horrified I am.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
303dk
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:08 pm

If this hadn’t made the news, no one would have noticed or cared. Now the serial complainers are tripping over themselves to whine and act offended.
 
Blerg
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:16 pm

303dk wrote:
If this hadn’t made the news, no one would have noticed or cared. Now the serial complainers are tripping over themselves to whine and act offended.


I think someone must have complained before if they are changing this. Someone was offended by 'ladies and gentlemen'.
 
303dk
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:19 pm

Blerg wrote:
303dk wrote:
If this hadn’t made the news, no one would have noticed or cared. Now the serial complainers are tripping over themselves to whine and act offended.


I think someone must have complained before if they are changing this. Someone was offended by 'ladies and gentlemen'.

More likely just part of general updates and modernization as part of general updates to pre-recorded announcements and/or safety videos.
 
Blerg
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:38 pm

303dk wrote:
Blerg wrote:
303dk wrote:
If this hadn’t made the news, no one would have noticed or cared. Now the serial complainers are tripping over themselves to whine and act offended.


I think someone must have complained before if they are changing this. Someone was offended by 'ladies and gentlemen'.

More likely just part of general updates and modernization as part of general updates to pre-recorded announcements and/or safety videos.


And how did we come to that point? ;) It came about as a tiny group of people complained, nagged and got offended by 'ladies and gentlemen'.
 
303dk
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:43 pm

Blerg wrote:
303dk wrote:
Blerg wrote:

I think someone must have complained before if they are changing this. Someone was offended by 'ladies and gentlemen'.

More likely just part of general updates and modernization as part of general updates to pre-recorded announcements and/or safety videos.


And how did we come to that point? ;) It came about as a tiny group of people complained, nagged and got offended by 'ladies and gentlemen'.

I highly doubt it. Probably just management that doesn’t fear change.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:02 pm

Please keep comments appropriate, respectful, and on topic for civil aviation discussion.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:12 pm

I feel like "good morning ladies and gentlemen" is not used in a literal sense but an all encompassing one. I definitely never meant to disrespect anyone when I used it in my airline CSA days and I said it all the time in announcements.
When wasn't America great?


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CDG777FAN
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:21 pm

A nice move from Air Canada in my opinion.
Some people here get so easily offended by something they are the least concerned. It's just "Hello everybody" instead of "Good morning ladies and gentlemen", your lives would still be the same and the sun will still raise everyday. Most of us wouldn't even notice it if wasn't on the news.
 
kimimm19
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:36 pm

What next, when the FA asks you what you want to drink, they'll address you as: 'hey you there' instead of sir or miss... What a joke.
 
DFW17L
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:41 pm

I start my presentations the same way for several decades...”Welcome”, with a warm smile.
 
steveinbc
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:41 pm

I am a super elite (100k) million miler and I can honestly say I can not recollect an announcement commencing with 'ladies and gentlemen'. From my recollection they simply commence with a good morning, afternoon etc.
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PA110
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:42 pm

Why do those objecting automatically assume this move is in response to specific complaints? There has been a broad move across English-speaking countries for several decades to remove gender from language. Policeman is now Police Officer. Mailman is now Mail Carrier. These are just two examples that were the outgrowth of the women's movements of the 60s and 70s. This current move by Air Canada is simply a continued evolution of this process. Personally I think it's a great thing.

While the number of actual individuals who might feel marginalized by gendered language may be small, the larger benefit to society is helping future generations not to think in binary ways. As someone remarked earlier, it seems the only ones who seem bothered by this are cis-gendered straight males over a certain age. Speaking as a cis-gendered non-straight male over a certain age, life changes. Get over it.
Look, it's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
 
LAXLHR
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:54 pm

Jetty wrote:
Avoiding gendered language is a great step forward for mankind!


for MANkind? Is it now?...really? LOL


*******

A general comment to directly address this AC thread. Its ridiculous for the reason given, but I understand. Ladies and Gentleman is outdated....and most people are not either anyway.
Last edited by LAXLHR on Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ltbewr
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:03 pm

The 'everyone' is not only being gender neutral, but also included children who are passengers. It sound friendly, something (stereotypical) as to Canadians. It is also a word that works in both English and in it's French-Canadian forms so appeasing both of them, a sensitive area for in particular French-Canadians. It is also a no-cost idea to try to sound like you care about passengers.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:13 pm

ChasChandler wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
I think it's a little odd, but getting upset over a company deciding to making such a small change is silly. Does it affect you that much that your experience is ruined if you don't hear "ladies and gentlemen"? If it makes some people feel more comfortable, then more power to them.

Death by a thousand cuts.


Who is dying?
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:23 pm

ACDC8 wrote:
Magnolia wrote:
I think it's a little odd, but getting upset over a company deciding to making such a small change is silly. Does it affect you that much that your experience is ruined if you don't hear "ladies and gentlemen"? If it makes some people feel more comfortable, then more power to them.

I think it's a little odd that people get so upset that a company actually has to change a polite and courteous greeting just to make them "comfortable".

Just another step backwards into the downward spiralling rabbit hole of "feelings".


Who said AC has to do anything? They chose to.
@DadCelo
 
Blerg
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:25 pm

PA110 wrote:
Why do those objecting automatically assume this move is in response to specific complaints? There has been a broad move across English-speaking countries for several decades to remove gender from language. Policeman is now Police Officer. Mailman is now Mail Carrier. These are just two examples that were the outgrowth of the women's movements of the 60s and 70s. This current move by Air Canada is simply a continued evolution of this process. Personally I think it's a great thing.

While the number of actual individuals who might feel marginalized by gendered language may be small, the larger benefit to society is helping future generations not to think in binary ways. As someone remarked earlier, it seems the only ones who seem bothered by this are cis-gendered straight males over a certain age. Speaking as a cis-gendered non-straight male over a certain age, life changes. Get over it.


No need for generalisation and ageism on here as seen in your second paragraph. Just because you think such things represent societal evolution doesn't make it a dogma, others are allowed to have a different opinion than yours.
 
Newark727
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:27 pm

My suggestion is to replace "ladies and gentlemen" with "howdy folks!"
 
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aerolimani
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Re: AC to improve inclusivity and stop using "Ladies and Gentlemen"

Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:32 pm

PA110 wrote:
Why do those objecting automatically assume this move is in response to specific complaints? There has been a broad move across English-speaking countries for several decades to remove gender from language. Policeman is now Police Officer. Mailman is now Mail Carrier. These are just two examples that were the outgrowth of the women's movements of the 60s and 70s. This current move by Air Canada is simply a continued evolution of this process. Personally I think it's a great thing.

While the number of actual individuals who might feel marginalized by gendered language may be small, the larger benefit to society is helping future generations not to think in binary ways. As someone remarked earlier, it seems the only ones who seem bothered by this are cis-gendered straight males over a certain age. Speaking as a cis-gendered non-straight male over a certain age, life changes. Get over it.

I mostly came back to this thread to see if the dumpster fire was still underway, and was not disappointed. But then, I saw this post I've quoted. Thank you, PA110 for this. Society (in some places) is advancing towards the more inclusive. More inclusive society means more people are happy, and happier people can function to the best of their abilities. It's how civilized societies work, it's how we don't go to war, and it's how life gets better for everybody.

Specifically, this situation is not about addressing everybody by their own specific preference. Rather, it is addressing everyone using singular terms that include everybody. It's equalizing, and there's nothing wrong with that. Besides, it's more efficient! I'm perfectly fine with "Good morning/afternoon/evening passengers…"

PS: stewardess/steward is now flight attendant

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