Newark727 wrote:

My suggestion is to replace "ladies and gentlemen" with "howdy folks!"

I've heard this on Westjet so many times. "Howdy folks, this is your captain speaking…"

Some people are desperate to be offended and outraged.

Most people objecting are only doing so because someone actually let them know AC did something for them to get upset about. No one would have noticed otherwise.

Why has my perfectly sensible posting been removed without traces?
I still prefer gender specific welcoming as most people can specify their gender.

I simply posted that “ good morning ladies , gentlemen and people seeking attention”, was all inclusive, covers all the bases

Welcome aboard rows 1-42 sounds far more impersonal than welcome aboard ladies and gentlemen. Crew members at most airlines want to convey a message of warmth and caring for all. Guess this is not a value of the New Air Canada.

In western civilizations it is just polite to say yes man, no mam, and ladies and gentlemen.

The absurdity of abandoning eons of polite traditions which help people show respect for one another, and convey a message, show how savage, ignorant, and unsophisticated modern society is, and still becoming.

Air Canada may get 10 non-binary and 10 transgenders to fly them next month but they will just as likely lose 100 ladies and 200 gentlemen.

Shareholders take notice of the idiocy at Air Canada lately. Focus on SAFETY Air Canada.

KlimaBXsst wrote:

The absurdity of abandoning eons of polite traditions which help people show respect for one another, and convey a message, show how savage, ignorant, and unsophisticated modern society is, and still becoming.

Not that old, really. It perhaps goes back to the 1700s. Gentleman did not work for a living, so it was a manner of address meant to flatter the emergent middle-class patron.

Frankly, it's a bit archaic in a world with a dwindling middle class. It's no longer fashionable to dream of not working.

I guess Aeroflot deserves all our praise for being so much ahead of their time. They have been saying "Уважаемые пассажиры" (literally, "Respectable passengers") since decades!

As is normal now in much of western society, it is perfectly acceptable to offend the majority but you cannot offend some tiny minority. I am a male, my wife a female, that is how we want to be addressed/treated. But it no longer matters what we think, we are just prejudiced in some way. And you mustn't have any beliefs that don't fit the narrative now. I'm liberal as long as you agree with my views is the new thinking.

I don't get why some people are up in arms about this. The important bit here is that this is not being done to placate anyone, rather just a more inclusive and efficient way of doing things. We have made significant strides in our "civilized" world re: inclusivity in the past few decades, so I wonder why this tiny change is so offensive to some.

"Welcome aboard everyone / Bienvenue a Tous" sounds just right and like many folks on here have chimed in, I do not think any of us will notice.

The very definition of social privilege is being upset over something as trivial as a move toward more inclusive language.

It’s a small change, but moves such as this force us to think critically about the power and structures that create and maintain an unequal society. Well done, Air Canada.

Those who think this change is for the worse have clearly never been marginalised before, and have no clue what that feels like.

In my opinion this change is for the better. Good on you AC!

FlyRow wrote:

Dutch railways did the same, after two trips you dont notice the difference. So if some feel better and most don’t notice the difference, who cares about a small change?

They might have done it on paper, but many train stewards still say “ladies and gentlemen” instead of “dear passengers”. I hear it almost every time I travel, including today. And there is nothing wrong with that. To be honest, I notice the difference each time I travel, and I think this political correctness in our society is pretty sad.

Most passengers are "Ladies" or "Gentleman" so where is the problem to be polite and welcome them as what they are or want to be called? Would any transvestite, diverse person etc. be frustrated or offended for not being included? Maybe the transvestite should just include himself in any preferred greeting instead of requiring the whole society to change their language?

Sad that someone would truly be offended by "ladies and gentleman" even if you don't consider yourself one of those two.

Every day every type of person finds themselves not fitting into a certain "bucket" that daily lives are naturally separated into. Big deal. If you're constantly offended by things, you'll never be a happy person, and it shouldn't be society's job to fix that.

VV wrote:

I am not even sure they feel excluded.

Perhaps they should push it even further, "Good morning mortal humans."

Or just take the Ryanair approach... "Good morning suckers, and now get your wallets out !"

I suggest "People Of Earth".

KlimaBXsst wrote:

Air Canada is free to wreck their stock and image among the public. There is always WestJet and others air transportation companies.

That is the beauty about free enterprise, which rewards airline businesses when good decisions are made, and penalizes airlines when bad bureaucracy persists.

Assuming this becomes official policy at AC, I would expect Westjet to follow suit fairly shortly. Besides, they already say “Howdy, folks!” pretty often.

Inclusivity is great, but god is it really this slow of a news day? Maybe AC should focus on things with greater purpose to help their bottom line...

TSA125 wrote:

Inclusivity is great, but god is it really this slow of a news day? Maybe AC should focus on things with greater purpose to help their bottom line...

Personally, I appreciate a corporation with some moral conscience. There’s another well-known aviation corporation who could have done with a little less focus on shareholder value, and a little more conscience. Of course, they’re getting their comeuppance now.

aerolimani wrote:

TSA125 wrote:

Inclusivity is great, but god is it really this slow of a news day? Maybe AC should focus on things with greater purpose to help their bottom line...

Personally, I appreciate a corporation with some moral conscience. There’s another well-known aviation corporation who could have done with a little less focus on shareholder value, and a little more conscience. Of course, they’re getting their comeuppance now.

Okay I give up. Who would that be?

sprxUSA wrote:

Glad they are placating such a small portion of the public. But these days, most women aren't ladies and most men aren't gentlemen, so should have given up saying it years ago....

Perfectly sad

Is this not more offensive?

So its saying a trans-man is not a gentlemen and a trans-woman is not a lady??

I don't understand, do trans people who want to identify to their sex of their liking find it insulting that they would then be called a gentlemen or lady? is that not what they want???

flyer1225 wrote:

Magnolia wrote:

I think it's a little odd, but getting upset over a company deciding to making such a small change is silly. Does it affect you that much that your experience is ruined if you don't hear "ladies and gentlemen"? If it makes some people feel more comfortable, then more power to them.

This, this, and this 1000x over. If something as simple as this perturbs you when in reality it has no impact on your life whatsoever and makes some OTHER person's life better, you need to reevaluate who you're calling sensitive or possessing weak sensibilities.

I bet you can''t even see the irony in what you just wrote.

People who get offended by people being offended are just as bad as those they get worked up about. They never see the irony though. Chill, step outside, it's a beautiful world out there, you might find it a big release to stop being angry at other people over nothing all the time.

kimimm19 wrote:

What next, when the FA asks you what you want to drink, they'll address you as: 'hey you there' instead of sir or miss... What a joke.

Well, *insert pronoun here* better damn well ask for my pronouns before addressing me as anything........

iseeyyc wrote:

I suggest "People Of Earth".

But what about that Norwegian woman (oops, I meant “animal), that identifies as a horse?

I don't think it is a big ask to slightly alter words if it makes someone feel better.

This is the last reminder that this thread needs to stay on topic. This isn't supposed to be a great social debate, nor a political one. This is an aviation forum, so please try to discuss the impacts of this decision on Air Canada. Too many comments are blatantly ignoring the fact that this is an aviation website, and skipping straight to political mudslinging. If it continues, the thread will be locked. That discussion belongs in the Non Aviation Forum.

✈️ atcsundevil

aerolimani wrote:

PA110 wrote:

Specifically, this situation is not about addressing everybody by their own specific preference. Rather, it is addressing everyone using singular terms that include everybody. It's equalizing, and there's nothing wrong with that. Besides, it's more efficient! I'm perfectly fine with "Good morning/afternoon/evening passengers…"

PS: stewardess/steward is now flight attendant

This is PC madness gone over top in the Anglosphere. Full service airlines should have some standards and class and that includes things
like being well presented and good manners. A lot of people like being referred to as either Ladies or Gents. What next get rid of Madam and
Sir? " Human, which breakfast option would you like today?"

Considering most Anglophile countries (and also Francophile in the case of Canada) ppl are able to change everything officially to what they
identify with. I've known women who have transitioned to a man, and they don't want to be known as a lesbian they want to live a male life.
I actually asked one of them if he(formerly she) who have any offence if Air Canada called her a Gentleman.... his response was "Its not offensive,
because I am a man now, and the price of the ticket is more important"

Lets call this for what it is.... this is a bunch of HR ppl and consultants trying to justify what they're doing all day and the size of their department.
Annual reviews are probably coming up and its hard to justify big bonuses if everything is just "business as usual"

AaronPGH wrote:

I don't think it is a big ask to slightly alter words if it makes someone feel better.

What about those who don't feel better after the change? What about men and women who want to be referred to as ladies and gentlemen? Don't their feeling matter and don't they have a say?

I'm an official Emotional Support Animal and I am offended that I am not included in these new announcement procedures. Who do I complain to?

I think people misunderstand this change is to include everyone - it’s not a zero sum change where more respect is offered to some at the cost of less respect to others. Everyone person is being acknowledged is that not simply nice? Respect for all? With only a change of a word? To the people preferring Ladies and Gentleman - Air Canada still appreciates and respects you, now they are gently flagging this respect to others, and their allies. Let’s rejoice in the kindness of this small gesture towards equal recognition.
A change that doesn’t hurt anyone, but if adopted by a number of organisations, might make a few people in a marginalised community, who historically have significant mental health challenges due to being ostracised feel more welcome — I’m all for it.

I’d choose to fly with Air Canada as a carrier that chooses to recognise equality

I hope more airlines choose this path. As humans I hope we continue to choose to be gentle, compassionate, share kindness, and inclusion not anger airlines and organisations all have a part to play in this.

Meh, there are benefits to it. More than once I accidentally called a very butch lesbian "sir" in my customer service days. You can't always tell off the bat and are very likely to offend if mistaken, which can happen.

I have no problem with them removing the gendered terms, I just don't care for the word "everybody". I feel it's a bit impersonal and too casual, like what you'd yell into a crowd: "Hey everybody! Listen up!"

I think it'd sound nicer if they removed addressing the passengers with a specific word at all. Instead of "Welcome aboard ladies and gentlemen" or "Welcome aboard everyone", I think it'd sound nicer if they said "Good morning, and welcome aboard Air Canada flight 123..." That way they could avoid any gendered language and still sound a bit more professional, imo

Avoiding gendered language is anti social to the majority. Why should the majority lose something in order to make minorities happier? Why not just include greetings for those that are supposed to be included now?

Noshow wrote:

Avoiding gendered language is anti social to the majority. Why should the majority lose something in order to make minorities happier? Why not just include greetings for those that are supposed to be included now?

I fail to see exactly what is lost? This debate is completely ridiculous; the “ladies and gentleman” part of the announcements certainly does not add anything to the courtesy they’re trying to convey. Neither does it make anyone feel particularly special when they’re being referred to as such.

Here is an example of exactly how little the term matters in the overall delivery of the announcements:

Previous: Ladies and gentleman, welcome aboard flight ACXXX ...
New: Good morning/evening and welcome aboard flight ACXXX ...

I fail to see how the new announcement either would outrage anyone, or appears to be any less polite than the previous one.

Outrage? Nobody claimed that.
It's just less polite not to adress these paying passengers as persons and -yes by gender- anymore. The majority of people is used to be treated this way and that will be taken away. That happens with a lot of political correctness "improvements".

Sounds good to me.

"Good morning everyone, welcome aboard Air Canada Flight.../Bonjour tout le monde, bienvenue à bord Air Canada vol...". Sounds perfectly fine to me, it is respectful, courteous and gender-neutral.

BTW non-gendered language is a bear in French, where everything, including my car's gearbox, is gendered!

Beech

People getting upset by a very simple move to make a company more open and inclusive is utter nonsense. What difference will it make to you - absolutely none!
The idea that changes like this can only come from complaints or people being offended is also utter nonsense. - anyone ever heard of being proactive?

You're living in a society that is moving more and more to openness and inclusiveness. Moan as much as you want, but it's happening.

Noshow wrote:

Avoiding gendered language is anti social to the majority. Why should the majority lose something in order to make minorities happier? Why not just include greetings for those that are supposed to be included now?

Can you explain how this is anti social to ANYONE? I fail to see how.

I think its fine that AC is doing this, but is anyone really offended by it?

I mean, Im irreligious but I dont get offended by people telling me to have a blessed day or that theyll pray for me.

Can you explain how this is anti social to ANYONE? I fail to see how.

Because when you call all women "ladies" you are polite. Or men "gentlemen". That is lost.
There might be functional ways to adress crowds but taking gender out of the language is taking out some personal touch. And all this because of some acedemic "integration" dogma, that in fact could be done on top and not instead.

All this is no drama nobody is upset it is just a loss of language details that did not harm anybody before. Airlines should stop this nonsense.

Noshow wrote:

Can you explain how this is anti social to ANYONE? I fail to see how.

Because when you call all women "ladies" you are polite. Or men "gentlemen". That is lost.
There might be functional ways to adress crowds but taking gender out of the language is taking out some personal touch. And all this because of some acedemic "integration" dogma, that in fact could be done on top and not instead.

All this is no drama nobody is upset it is just a loss of language details that did not harm anybody before. Airlines should stop this nonsense.

It might be loss of personal touch (I'm not sure I'd agree, but be that as it may), but it's not anti social. That's a completely different thing and you haven't suggested anything remotely close to how it could be.

I don't really follow your loss of language detail to be honest. You haven't given anything to say why it's an issue. I don't suspect you can.

I am honestly amazed at the reactions here. You will notice that this was not a "Corporate Announcement" looking for publicity/reaction, but a memo that one of the denizens on here decided to post.

It has been going on for quite a while and this is only a small part. Perhaps, people should be digging around corporate memos more, to see the true scope.

Air Canada, mirroring the Canadian Charter of Rights, has been altering a lot of facets of the operation to (in this case) include everyone on board. Much like changing the reservation process so that gender is more open and not just "one or the other". This memo was with reference to Flight Attendant announcements. We, as pilots, also received the same memo a few weeks ago .... looking for input.

It's not just some manager's attempt of Political Correctness, but more a long evolution process.

beechnut wrote:

BTW non-gendered language is a bear in French, where everything, including my car's gearbox, is gendered!

This made me chuckle, as it is so so true!

It might be loss of personal touch (I'm not sure I'd agree, but be that as it may), but it's not anti social. That's a completely different thing and you haven't suggested anything remotely close to how it could be.

I don't really follow your loss of language detail to be honest. You haven't given anything to say why it's an issue. I don't suspect you can.

I'll try again:
The way I see it the airline is less polite than before to the majority of their customers. That is anti social isn't it?
They might want to do something good by including new minority groups (or just aim for their business?) but could adress them without changing the way they treat their legacy customers.

In fact I gave you a loss of language example.

What is wrong with genders? Nothing. We just should treat them equal with the same rights. That's the big error behind all this fancy PC stuff. It's about the packaging not the content.

If have several gay friends as well (men and women). Nobody ever had a language adressing problem felt offended or would require men and women to not be called men and women anymore.

Noshow wrote:

It might be loss of personal touch (I'm not sure I'd agree, but be that as it may), but it's not anti social. That's a completely different thing and you haven't suggested anything remotely close to how it could be.

I don't really follow your loss of language detail to be honest. You haven't given anything to say why it's an issue. I don't suspect you can.

I'll try again:
The way I see it the airline is less polite than before to the majority of their customers. That is anti social isn't it?
They might want to do something good by including new minority groups (or just aim for their business?) but could adress them without changing the way they treat their legacy customers.

In fact I gave you a loss of language example.

What is wrong with genders? Nothing. We just should treat them equal with the same rights. That's the big error behind all this fancy PC stuff. It's about the packaging not the content.

If have several gay friends as well (men and women). Nobody ever had a language adressing problem felt offended or would require men and women to not be called men and women anymore.

Thanks for trying again but you still haven't convinced me.
Anti social is defined as "contrary to the laws and customs of society, in a way that causes annoyance and disapproval in others.". You can think Air Canada is less polite, but that's not antisocial in any way.
I fail to see how changing one minor detail in their flight announcements is "changing the way they treat their legacy customers". Their flights are the same. Their service is the same. Their prices are the same. Their loyalty programme is the same. What's different? Do really need to be called a lady or a gentleman? How much difference does that actually make?

You're missing the point here, they are not "trying to include new minority groups". They are trying to ensure their language is appropriate for all of their fare paying passengers, as a leading international airline, in a progressive country. It's not about you, or any other individual, but the broad spread of people who fly Air Canada.

I'm not sure why you're mentioning gay here, this is nothing to do with sexuality, so you're further missing the point. It's also not about men and women being called men and women.

Jetty wrote:

Avoiding gendered language is a great step forward for mankind!

OA940 wrote:

Uh oh, it's a step forward towards equality and inclusiveness that has no negative part whatsoever. The heteros are upsetteros

On the contrary - they're the only ones not complaining. PS I know plenty of gay individuals which are extremely well educated, dressed, and polite - certainly count as gentlemen. Same goes for the ladies. This doesn't impact them at all, it's specifically a gender-related issue, so I'm not sure about your punchy little "heteros are upsetteros" comment.

I understand the times are completely different now, but many elite travelers and businessmen remember the "golden age" of commercial travel. I know airlines serve everyone now, and it's the only way they can stay successful and competitive - however I for one wouldn't mind a bit of professionalism. "Howdy folks" from a pilot just seems odd to me, and I know it's done many times but seeing it on paper just rubs me the wrong way.

How dare they. While they are at it they should change the name of Air Canada because it doesn’t involve other geographic regions and excludes others.

Noshow wrote:

It might be loss of personal touch (I'm not sure I'd agree, but be that as it may), but it's not anti social. That's a completely different thing and you haven't suggested anything remotely close to how it could be.

I don't really follow your loss of language detail to be honest. You haven't given anything to say why it's an issue. I don't suspect you can.

I'll try again:
The way I see it the airline is less polite than before to the majority of their customers. That is anti social isn't it?
They might want to do something good by including new minority groups (or just aim for their business?) but could adress them without changing the way they treat their legacy customers.

In fact I gave you a loss of language example.

What is wrong with genders? Nothing. We just should treat them equal with the same rights. That's the big error behind all this fancy PC stuff. It's about the packaging not the content.

If have several gay friends as well (men and women). Nobody ever had a language adressing problem felt offended or would require men and women to not be called men and women anymore.

So… all of us non-francophones are reading a (likely google) translation of an article written in French. Drawing solid conclusions about what AC is going to say, in English, is impossible. Certainly, this article makes no suggestions, whatsoever, about what might be said in English. So, there’s no point in getting one's nose out of joint over “everyone” or “everybody.”

As to politeness, there are plenty of very polite alternate options in English. Personally, I’d be very happy if AC would address me as “valued passenger.” I don’t care much for the value of being called a gentleman or lady, but tell me that you value my business, and that’s going to make me feel good!

U.S. airlines are going this route too.