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Dutchy
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:20 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Assad regime was not gone, unfortunately, and Syrian state institutions are being remodelled to serve the dictator.


Fixed it for you.

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
So perhaps a more democratic and better Syria could have been there, after the Assad period if Russia didn't want to help this dictator.


Look at Iraq - there never was any “more democratic and better” Iraq. There was ISIS shortly after Hussein is gone. And there would not have been a “better and more democratic” Syria. ISIS would have also been there - and much more dangerous and scary than it ever was. A full blown terroristic state, with military, economy, ideology, etc. You should ask yourself - what would have been going on in Europe in that case. Hence you should consider a big monument to Putin and Assad in Dam Square in Amsterdam.


De Dam is reserved for remembering all our fallen people since the start of WWII, so no place there for "honoring" common criminals and dictators whose deeds are as despicable as those who killed the fallen we remember there.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:57 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Fixed it for you.


Fortunately for Syria. InLibya - there is no more dictator, but no institutions either, and it’s not any better. And not remodeled for anything - preserved for functioning Syrian society.

Dutchy wrote:
De Dam is reserved for remembering all our fallen people since the start of WWII, so no place there for "honoring" common criminals and dictators whose deeds are as despicable as those who killed the fallen we remember there.


I still think it’s worthwhile to remember them there, as well as some fallen Russian officers. If Syrian statehood had fallen and EU were to fix the mess with their own joint military mission - you would have been remembering someone there a few times a week.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:00 pm

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
When did the US target civilians? Not collateral damage, not a mistake, but deliberate targeting?


Perhaps not targeted, but did not care enough for sure. Even if mistakes - they led to civilian death toll in 5-6 figures over the years they are in the Middle East. And, of course, they do not accept on their account casualties from ISIS and civil wars that broke off as the result of their military operations. So I do not see what does it change.


So you say Rob deliberately told a lie to put Russia in a better light.

So Rob's comparison is a complete and utter bull. Now we have established that we are back at the original statement. "You believe other misdeeds justify Russia's bombing of hospitals?"

Since you thought it fit to react to it, so perhaps you see yourself fit to answer the question posted......


I’m not putting anyone in a better light the US has been responsible for orders of magnitude more civilian deaths since 9/11 than Russia, yet you you’re quick to judge one but hold the other to a different standard. US right Russian wrong, the US started the Arab spring and look what’s happened, the US props up dictatorships and you look the other way. The US and Russia do the same nasty shit, yet you get upset at Russian actions but not at American.

Syria is a US instigated mess, they should have just kept out allowed Assad to kill or be killed and deal with however won.
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:01 pm

Dutchy wrote:
So you say Rob deliberately told a lie to put Russia in a better light.


Was I even referring to Russia in the post? I was referring to the USA.
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:11 pm

Kiwirob wrote:

Syria is a US instigated mess, they should have just kept out allowed Assad to kill or be killed and deal with however won.


The challenge is - you can see how easily USA just pulls out of the messes they instigated. It would be up to Turkey, EU, Russia to deal with the mess, and all the neighbors will have huge problems.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:53 pm

You two are just here to defend Russia's interests, @Anrec80 and @Kiwirob. Did you read the article in question? Russia targeting hospitals, that is what you are actively are defending here. That is just quite a sad thing to do.

But good luck with that, everything has been said here, till another thread were you undoubtedly want to defend the Putin regime yet again with whatever despicable fact they have done.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
alfa164
Topic Author
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:25 pm

It is unfortunate that we cannot have a serious discussion about this - or any subject involving Russia - without the usual suspects trying to divert the conversation, blame some other country for some other issue, or serve up mindless propaganda and excuses.

This topic is about Russia's indiscriminate bombing of men, women, and children in hospitals - nothing more, and nothing less. If anyone can find a good reason to justify that, you are welcome to chime in. Otherwise, false excuses and "whataboutisms" are just drivel.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
tu204
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:45 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Dead? Crushed? Feld the warzone? In one of Assad's prison camps? Struggling for survival and not worrying too much about fundamental human rights?


Don't know, but considering what they caused by their actions I am not shedding any tears for them if that (or worse) is their fate. Unfortunately the leaders and decision makers in western regimes will probably not answer for their actions in fanning the flames almost to the point that the situation got out of control until direct Russian support, the lives of more than a hundred Russian servicemen and 4 years got the situation back under control.

If anyone deserves to be "dead, crushed or in Assad's prison camps", it's them. Not so much the puppets they exploited, while looking on and cheering from the sidelines.


At the cost of the lives of thousands if not tens of thousands of Syrian citizens. Assad regime was almost gone, until the Putin regime intervened. So perhaps a more democratic and better Syria could have been there, after the Assad period if Russia didn't want to help this dictator.

Totally different perspective than the Russian one, but something to think about.


Yes, the cost was thousands if not tens of thousands.
And almost all the blame rests on western regimes that opposed Assad and prior to that interfered in other places that sowed the seeds of ISIL.

Had it not been for Russian assistance, the death toll would be much higher and we would see a similar mess in neighbouring countries and beyond.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
Posts: 1958
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:49 pm

alfa164 wrote:
It is unfortunate that we cannot have a serious discussion about this - or any subject involving Russia - without the usual suspects trying to divert the conversation, blame some other country for some other issue, or serve up mindless propaganda and excuses.

This topic is about Russia's indiscriminate bombing of men, women, and children in hospitals - nothing more, and nothing less. If anyone can find a good reason to justify that, you are welcome to chime in. Otherwise, false excuses and "whataboutisms" are just drivel.


I don't exclude the possibility that Russia bombed targets where ISIL used civilian infrastructure as refuges.
Lesson here is for civilians to get the hell out of conflict areas occupied by ISIL.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:08 pm

Dutchy wrote:
You two are just here to defend Russia's interests, @Anrec80 and @Kiwirob. Did you read the article in question? Russia targeting hospitals, that is what you are actively are defending here. That is just quite a sad thing to do.


Yes, I have read the article. I don’t know who targeted what and who bombed what, but the hospitals after the fact ended up being unbombed.
 
alfa164
Topic Author
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:43 am

anrec80 wrote:
Yes, I have read the article. I don’t know who targeted what and who bombed what, but the hospitals after the fact ended up being unbombed.


That's a lie. The hospitals were bombed - and they were bombed by the Russians.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 53786.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/read ... ation.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCi-2-Flcxk
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:41 am

tu204 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
It is unfortunate that we cannot have a serious discussion about this - or any subject involving Russia - without the usual suspects trying to divert the conversation, blame some other country for some other issue, or serve up mindless propaganda and excuses.

This topic is about Russia's indiscriminate bombing of men, women, and children in hospitals - nothing more, and nothing less. If anyone can find a good reason to justify that, you are welcome to chime in. Otherwise, false excuses and "whataboutisms" are just drivel.


I don't exclude the possibility that Russia bombed targets where ISIL used civilian infrastructure as refuges.
Lesson here is for civilians to get the hell out of conflict areas occupied by ISIL.


Check, you are fine with targeting civilian targets and lay the blame with the victims and not the attacker.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:44 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:

Don't know, but considering what they caused by their actions I am not shedding any tears for them if that (or worse) is their fate. Unfortunately the leaders and decision makers in western regimes will probably not answer for their actions in fanning the flames almost to the point that the situation got out of control until direct Russian support, the lives of more than a hundred Russian servicemen and 4 years got the situation back under control.

If anyone deserves to be "dead, crushed or in Assad's prison camps", it's them. Not so much the puppets they exploited, while looking on and cheering from the sidelines.


At the cost of the lives of thousands if not tens of thousands of Syrian citizens. Assad regime was almost gone, until the Putin regime intervened. So perhaps a more democratic and better Syria could have been there, after the Assad period if Russia didn't want to help this dictator.

Totally different perspective than the Russian one, but something to think about.


Yes, the cost was thousands if not tens of thousands.
And almost all the blame rests on western regimes that opposed Assad and prior to that interfered in other places that sowed the seeds of ISIL.

Had it not been for Russian assistance, the death toll would be much higher and we would see a similar mess in neighbouring countries and beyond.


The Assad regime attacked its own population and is meeting opposition to its regime with violence and yet you blame western countries adn want to paint Russians as the herros. That is quite a distortion of history.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 2191
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:02 am

Dutchy wrote:
The Assad regime attacked its own population and is meeting opposition to its regime with violence and yet you blame western countries adn want to paint Russians as the herros. That is quite a distortion of history.


Syrian, Libyan, Ukrainian, Russian opposition is not West's problem. Respective countries and societies will be able to figure out those relations among themselves. Nobody asked West to involve anywhere there.
 
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mad99
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:12 am

Wow those hospitals almost look like caves!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:40 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Syrian, Libyan, Ukrainian, Russian opposition is not West's problem. Respective countries and societies will be able to figure out those relations among themselves. Nobody asked West to involve anywhere there.


It's a humanity problem, you can't or will not grasseped the concept that you cannot blame the hostage for being be taken hostage. And if the hostage-taker then calls a friend to help you blame the hostage for resisting it and call the police.

But go ahead and continue to admire the hostage-taker....
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:26 pm

mad99 wrote:
Wow those hospitals almost look like caves!


Yes, they sure do!
 
tu204
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:07 pm

Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Syrian, Libyan, Ukrainian, Russian opposition is not West's problem. Respective countries and societies will be able to figure out those relations among themselves. Nobody asked West to involve anywhere there.


It's a humanity problem, you can't or will not grasseped the concept that you cannot blame the hostage for being be taken hostage. And if the hostage-taker then calls a friend to help you blame the hostage for resisting it and call the police.

But go ahead and continue to admire the hostage-taker....


Exactly what the hostage (Assad) did, called on the police (Russia) to get them out of the mess that the hostage takers (some locals looking for power+Islamic radicals backed by western regimes) got them into.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
Posts: 1958
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:36 am

Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:15 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

At the cost of the lives of thousands if not tens of thousands of Syrian citizens. Assad regime was almost gone, until the Putin regime intervened. So perhaps a more democratic and better Syria could have been there, after the Assad period if Russia didn't want to help this dictator.

Totally different perspective than the Russian one, but something to think about.


Yes, the cost was thousands if not tens of thousands.
And almost all the blame rests on western regimes that opposed Assad and prior to that interfered in other places that sowed the seeds of ISIL.

Had it not been for Russian assistance, the death toll would be much higher and we would see a similar mess in neighbouring countries and beyond.


The Assad regime attacked its own population and is meeting opposition to its regime with violence and yet you blame western countries adn want to paint Russians as the herros. That is quite a distortion of history.


Had Assad taken a lesson from the western book of dealing with protests and came down hard at the very beginning, he wouldn't have had such a mess. Had the Western regimes not assisted the "opposition", there would not have been such a mess either.

Lesson learnt here is that you shouldn't trust the west in any shape or form (as in NGO's and the likes recieving funding and grants from abroad should get the boot ASAP), you have to deal with protests hard, but not give into provocations at the very start not to let them get out of hand.

And yes, Russia is the hero in the whole Syrian mess. Were it not for Russia, Syria would be called ISIL right now. With all all the outcoming consequences, and you sir would be seeing them over there in the Netherlands, and not just hearing about them on the news.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:58 am

tu204 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Syrian, Libyan, Ukrainian, Russian opposition is not West's problem. Respective countries and societies will be able to figure out those relations among themselves. Nobody asked West to involve anywhere there.


It's a humanity problem, you can't or will not grasseped the concept that you cannot blame the hostage for being be taken hostage. And if the hostage-taker then calls a friend to help you blame the hostage for resisting it and call the police.

But go ahead and continue to admire the hostage-taker....


Exactly what the hostage (Assad) did, called on the police (Russia) to get them out of the mess that the hostage takers (some locals looking for power+Islamic radicals backed by western regimes) got them into.


So close to understanding, yet try again.

Article from 2011, 3 months after the start of the uprising, no western influence, no Russia, no Iran, just the Assad regime dealing with "his" subordinates. That's the kind of leader Anrec80 admires, you too, Tu204?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 2191
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:54 am

Dutchy wrote:
Article from 2011, 3 months after the start of the uprising, no western influence, no Russia, no Iran, just the Assad regime dealing with "his" subordinates. That's the kind of leader Anrec80 admires, you too, Tu204?


Can you post the quotes from the article that interested you the most? In the USA/Canada, I cannot read NYT (subscription required). Then, I will be happy to address your concerns.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:20 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Article from 2011, 3 months after the start of the uprising, no western influence, no Russia, no Iran, just the Assad regime dealing with "his" subordinates. That's the kind of leader Anrec80 admires, you too, Tu204?


Can you post the quotes from the article that interested you the most? In the USA/Canada, I cannot read NYT (subscription required). Then, I will be happy to address your concerns.


Not interested in your "views" anymore, sorry.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
anrec80
Posts: 2191
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Russia Bombing Hospitals in Syria

Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:48 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Not interested in your "views" anymore, sorry.


Alright, fair enough. Just keep in mind - the content from sources like NYT you are posting can’t always be read by everyone. I can’t really know what leaders have been described in the article (and I supposedly admire) not having read it.

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