MaverickM11
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Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's killer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:20 pm

Grieving Parents ‘Ambushed’ by Trump, Who Had Teen’s Killer Waiting at White House

"The Dunn family, now in the United States to drum up support to send Sacoolas back to the U.K. to face justice, had accepted an “urgent” invitation by the White House from National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien, to visit Donald Trump in Washington, D.C. Trump, it seems, thought he could convince the Dunns to meet the woman who killed their son, and would do so by opening a side door through which she would walk. The whole scene would be captured by a pool of photographers who had been summoned for the meeting."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-saco ... e?ref=home

Brilliant.
Last edited by SQ22 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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jetwet1
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:26 pm

Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????

This whole thing is tasteless, I totally understand diplomatic immunity, I can even to a point understand getting the couple out of the UK to avoid any political wrangling to try to get the wife in a courtroom.

What I don't get is pulling this type of crap on the couple who happen to be from our closest Allie. At some point the US will have to deal with the damage that has been done to the relationships it has with other countries.
 
Pyrex
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:38 pm

I thought the word "murderer" still meant something, at least from a legal perspective, but I guess in this "Orange Man Bad" world it even applies to someone who was involved in a horrible accident, if you can use it to make a point.

I would love to see Trump waive diplomatic immunity and extradite this woman to the U.K. The collective pants-shitting that would take place inside the Beltway, seeing a bureaucrat suffer the consequences of their actions, would be glorious to see. But as much as I would appreciate the lolz, the fact is that, as far as I can tell, this appears to have been a terrible accident that could have happened to anyone, far less serious than the crap diplomats and other bureaucrats around the world get away with impunity on a daily basis, so probably not the right case to set the precedent.
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:49 pm

It looks like the NSA bungled this one from the Dunn's perspective. It was a photo opp instead of a real mediation and a real discussion on the steps needed to move forward for justice.

The Dunn family blames National Security Adviser O’Brien for the misstep. “It struck us that this meeting was hastily arranged by nincompoops on the run and in particular Mr. O’Brien, who appeared to be extremely uptight and aggressive and did not come across at all well in this meeting which required careful handling and sensitivity,” Seiger wrote. “The family remain open to the possibility of meeting Mrs. Sacoolas one day in the future but in a neutral and appropriately controlled environment.”

In other words, not in a reality-TV setting.



The accident was horrible, and I am not sure how diplomatic immunity helps anyone in this case. The family in Britain is owed an answer, even if it that an American driver in country for three weeks made the unfortunate decision to drive on the right side of the road for 1/4 of a mile and caused the death of their son. The White House team did not do a good job of bringing closure to an issue that has some very raw emotions.
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N583JB
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:57 pm

Needless hyperbole doesn't strengthen someone's argument, it weakens it. In the United States, "murder" requires intent. Perhaps the OP is aware of some sensitive information regarding this case that no one has reported yet?

Edited to add: Saw that the OP edited their title. Thank you. Perhaps now this discussion can be more focused on the actual botched meeting.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:03 pm

Wow, that is harsh to bring a greaving family in the same room with the person whom is responsible for the death of their son and is avoiding justice by hiding behind diplomatic immunity. Not only that, do this in front of the entire press corps. How could this go right? In what universe would this action benefit anyone? This is a complete and utter cock-up.

Diplomatic immunity is very important to keep the wheels of diplomacy turning, that said, in this case, the Americans could waver it, could prosecute themselves. It surely was an unfortunate accident, but it probably is involuntary manslaughter or something similar in UK courts. She bares responsibility for her own actions and driving on the wrong side of the road is quite reckless.
Last edited by Dutchy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BN747
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:05 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????


Are you insane???

How can you not? It was the worst 'Reality TV stunt' ever - in the most political center possible.

Hiding the perpetrator in the next room and then springing 'that kind of' surprise on the aggrieved family out of the blue???

What idiot would pull that stunt...other than the Hair-on-Fire president of America?

It's 100% political, a very bad political stunt! And smells distinctly like the brain fart of an ex-Reality Tv actor....hint hint hint....

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:12 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????

How is that possible? Most--all but one?--politicians would be sane enough to avoid making a tragic situation into a disastrous insult to the victims.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Tugger
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:55 pm

BN747 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????


Are you insane???

How can you not?

MaverickM11 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????

How is that possible?

By the reading of the article, it was the National Security Adviser that was the faulty actor here and that the president was apparently quite sympathetic. We actually have no indication that the president set this up or that he pushed them to accept anything. And I am far from a defender of Trump.

Tugg
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:56 pm

Tugger wrote:
BN747 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????


Are you insane???

How can you not?

MaverickM11 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????

How is that possible?

By the reading of the article, it was the National Security Adviser that was the faulty actor here and that the president was apparently quite sympathetic. We actually have no indication that the president set this up or that he pushed them to accept anything. And I am far from a defender of Trump.

Tugg


Although....and i will stop here. The President Hires "only the best people"
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ltbewr
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's killer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:04 pm

The UK/England isn't like China or Russia as to handling criminal matters. They have a structure of a rule of law and rights of the accused. Sending the Diplomat's wife back to face the dock or reasonable investigation should be considered.

On a larger point, I think there is a need to adjust international treaties as to diplomatic immunity to reduce abuses that far too often occur. No one should get away with crimes of violence, sexual abuse, not paying parking tickets or not facing penalties for driving dangerously. I recall back in the late 1990's a Georgian high level diplomat in DC was DUI and killed a teen woman. The Georgian government had the diplomat stay and face US judicial process, he ended up with a 7 year jail sentence. More countries should consider such decisions for the greater good of justice and fairness.
 
BN747
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:09 pm

Tugger wrote:
BN747 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????


Are you insane???

How can you not?

MaverickM11 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????

How is that possible?

By the reading of the article, it was the National Security Adviser that was the faulty actor here and that the president was apparently quite sympathetic. We actually have no indication that the president set this up or that he pushed them to accept anything. And I am far from a defender of Trump.

Tugg



Just one question: How many times in school did you have your lunch money taken from you by a bully?

Are you that naive to spot a 'Sharpie move' after 3 years of demonstration?

It's all the ingredients of a Jerry Springer episode! And you're saying 'the National Security Adviser ' cooked this up? And you believed them?????

....nothing more to say.

BN747
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:35 pm

BN747 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
By the reading of the article, it was the National Security Adviser that was the faulty actor here and that the president was apparently quite sympathetic. We actually have no indication that the president set this up or that he pushed them to accept anything. And I am far from a defender of Trump.

Tugg



Just one question: How many times in school did you have your lunch money taken from you by a bully?

Are you that naive to spot a 'Sharpie move' after 3 years of demonstration?

It's all the ingredients of a Jerry Springer episode! And you're saying 'the National Security Adviser ' cooked this up? And you believed them?????

You can decide to not believe the family of the person killed but I thought they were a decent source to trust. They are the one who stated this.

Tugg
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seb146
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:55 pm

Tugger wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
By the reading of the article, it was the National Security Adviser that was the faulty actor here and that the president was apparently quite sympathetic. We actually have no indication that the president set this up or that he pushed them to accept anything. And I am far from a defender of Trump.

Tugg



Just one question: How many times in school did you have your lunch money taken from you by a bully?

Are you that naive to spot a 'Sharpie move' after 3 years of demonstration?

It's all the ingredients of a Jerry Springer episode! And you're saying 'the National Security Adviser ' cooked this up? And you believed them?????

You can decide to not believe the family of the person killed but I thought they were a decent source to trust. They are the one who stated this.

Tugg


The occupant of the White House is in this for the ratings and the shock and awe. He has to be the center of attention. He wants to play for the cameras. He wants people to stop talking about his crimes and move on to what he knows best: reality TV. Ratings. This is what he knows and loves. He does not care who is innocent or guilty. This is Jerry Springer, Maury Povich stuff.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:05 pm

Tugger wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
By the reading of the article, it was the National Security Adviser that was the faulty actor here and that the president was apparently quite sympathetic. We actually have no indication that the president set this up or that he pushed them to accept anything. And I am far from a defender of Trump.

Tugg



Just one question: How many times in school did you have your lunch money taken from you by a bully?

Are you that naive to spot a 'Sharpie move' after 3 years of demonstration?

It's all the ingredients of a Jerry Springer episode! And you're saying 'the National Security Adviser ' cooked this up? And you believed them?????

You can decide to not believe the family of the person killed but I thought they were a decent source to trust. They are the one who stated this.

Tugg

The adviser cooked this up?

"President Trump said Wednesday that he had arranged the meeting at the request of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Speaking at a joint press conference with Italian President Sergio Mattarella, he described the encounter as “beautiful in a certain way,” adding that he expressed condolences “on behalf of our country. ”

He then admitted that he tried to get the family to meet Sacoolas, who was waiting in an adjacent room. “I offered to bring the person in question in,” he said. “And they weren’t ready for it.”"
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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Tugger
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:38 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
The adviser cooked this up?

"President Trump said Wednesday that he had arranged the meeting at the request of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Speaking at a joint press conference with Italian President Sergio Mattarella, he described the encounter as “beautiful in a certain way,” adding that he expressed condolences “on behalf of our country. ”

He then admitted that he tried to get the family to meet Sacoolas, who was waiting in an adjacent room. “I offered to bring the person in question in,” he said. “And they weren’t ready for it.”"

Yes, that's fine but from the OP's linked article:
The Dunn family blames National Security Adviser O’Brien for the misstep. “It struck us that this meeting was hastily arranged by nincompoops on the run and in particular Mr. O’Brien, who appeared to be extremely uptight and aggressive and did not come across at all well in this meeting which required careful handling and sensitivity,” Seiger wrote. “The family remain open to the possibility of meeting Mrs. Sacoolas one day in the future but in a neutral and appropriately controlled environment.”


Still a dumb thing to do, obviously.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:27 pm

Tugger wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
It struck us that this meeting was hastily arranged by nincompoops

Sure seems to point to Individual #1 :rotfl:
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jetwet1
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:09 pm

BN747 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????


Are you insane???

How can you not? It was the worst 'Reality TV stunt' ever - in the most political center possible.

Hiding the perpetrator in the next room and then springing 'that kind of' surprise on the aggrieved family out of the blue???

What idiot would pull that stunt...other than the Hair-on-Fire president of America?

It's 100% political, a very bad political stunt! And smells distinctly like the brain fart of an ex-Reality Tv actor....hint hint hint....

BN747


MaverickM11 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????

How is that possible? Most--all but one?--politicians would be sane enough to avoid making a tragic situation into a disastrous insult to the victims.


I am no fan of Trump and honestly, when I replied I knew only that the NSA had set this up, only now finding out that the President had a hand in it as well. My original thought was to try to get the conversation more on to a right v wrong topic than a Republican v Democrat topic.

I am really having a hard time trying to grasp how even Trump could think that having the person who killed your child in the same room could be a good idea. There is no way it will end well, unless you consider the father face down in the carpet in the oval office with secret service pilled on top of him in front of the press corp a good ending, because, if I was the father, someone is getting my fist in their face.
 
BN747
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:10 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????


Are you insane???

How can you not? It was the worst 'Reality TV stunt' ever - in the most political center possible.

Hiding the perpetrator in the next room and then springing 'that kind of' surprise on the aggrieved family out of the blue???

What idiot would pull that stunt...other than the Hair-on-Fire president of America?

It's 100% political, a very bad political stunt! And smells distinctly like the brain fart of an ex-Reality Tv actor....hint hint hint....

BN747


MaverickM11 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????

How is that possible? Most--all but one?--politicians would be sane enough to avoid making a tragic situation into a disastrous insult to the victims.


I am no fan of Trump and honestly, when I replied I knew only that the NSA had set this up, only now finding out that the President had a hand in it as well. My original thought was to try to get the conversation more on to a right v wrong topic than a Republican v Democrat topic.

I am really having a hard time trying to grasp how even Trump could think that having the person who killed your child in the same room could be a good idea. There is no way it will end well, unless you consider the father face down in the carpet in the oval office with secret service pilled on top of him in front of the press corp a good ending, because, if I was the father, someone is getting my fist in their face.


All you had to do was recall his days as the Reality Tv boss on the Apprentice, recognize the #1 Reality Tv show tactic of 'Guess Who's in the Next Room?' ploy....and yeah it was precisely that easy see just who came up with that vapid idea.

BN747
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jetwet1
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's killer

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:22 pm

I watched the show exactly one time, that was enough. Yes I should have figured that politics couldn't stay out of this thread, my bad.
 
BN747
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's killer

Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:32 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
I watched the show exactly one time, that was enough. Yes I should have figured that politics couldn't stay out of this thread, my bad.


Especially when the event itself ..took on a Political nature by this Hair-on-Fire Administration initiating and instigating as much.

BN747
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tommy1808
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:31 am

jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????

This whole thing is tasteless, I totally understand diplomatic immunity, .


Diplomatic immunity does in no way prevent the sending state from stripping that immunity from their protected personal and handing them over to local law enforcement. It only serves to ensure that countries can not use diplomats and their families as hostages by cooking up charges, its is not meant to protect criminal diplomats from facing justice and doing so is an abuse of diplomatic status.

It shouldn´t even be a question if she is stripped of it and send back or not.

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scbriml
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's killer

Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:42 am

The thing that has disgusted most Brits is that when interviewed by the police, Anne Sacoolas said she had no intention of leaving the country. It's difficult not to feel that the US Government has been fully complicit in enabling her to run naway from justice.
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Bongodog49
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's killer

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:14 am

scbriml wrote:
The thing that has disgusted most Brits is that when interviewed by the police, Anne Sacoolas said she had no intention of leaving the country. It's difficult not to feel that the US Government has been fully complicit in enabling her to run naway from justice.


Unfortunately I have personal experience of how these cases are handled, my brother in law was seriously injured by the wife of a US serviceman, she was on the wrong side of the road and he was on his motorbik, he drove round a bend and there she was, despite heading for the verge, he just couldn't get out of her way, the result was that he received extensive injuries to his right leg. The policeman who interviewed him stated that the US base personnel and their families had instructions to drive away from any accidents and report them once back on base and the only reaosn she hadn't doen so was that her car now had a wheel missing. It later transpired that the driver was flown back to the USA the same day as the accident before my brother in law was out of the operating theatre. The policeman also stated that he attended numerous similar incidents. This was in 1980 so it is a long standing issue. If you don't live close to any major US facilities you wouldn't have a clue about this, if however you live on the Cambridgeshire Suffolk border close to Mildenhall & Lakenheath you will know all about it.

One of the major contributory factors appears to be that many US families stationed in the UK bring over US vehicles, as they are left hand drive it then seems natural to drive on the right.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's killer

Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:47 pm

If I understand this, diplomatic immunity means no sanctions at all if someone kills someone else. Neither the diplomat nor his/her family.

Why is the person not charged in their own country, i.e., the US prosecutes the person per US law? And civil damages per US law?
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:18 pm

Tugger wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
The adviser cooked this up?

"President Trump said Wednesday that he had arranged the meeting at the request of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Speaking at a joint press conference with Italian President Sergio Mattarella, he described the encounter as “beautiful in a certain way,” adding that he expressed condolences “on behalf of our country. ”

He then admitted that he tried to get the family to meet Sacoolas, who was waiting in an adjacent room. “I offered to bring the person in question in,” he said. “And they weren’t ready for it.”"

Yes, that's fine but from the OP's linked article:
The Dunn family blames National Security Adviser O’Brien for the misstep. “It struck us that this meeting was hastily arranged by nincompoops on the run and in particular Mr. O’Brien, who appeared to be extremely uptight and aggressive and did not come across at all well in this meeting which required careful handling and sensitivity,” Seiger wrote. “The family remain open to the possibility of meeting Mrs. Sacoolas one day in the future but in a neutral and appropriately controlled environment.”


Still a dumb thing to do, obviously.

Tugg


It seems to me that Trump had no intention of the two parties meeting without the consent of the family. Given that they never did, that appears to be true. I listened to an interview from the family's lawyer with Neil Cavuto yesterday afternoon - the interview clearly shows that the family was excited to meet with Trump and white house and want to meet Sacoolas, but not in the oval office, and not so quickly after the accident. Their primary reason for accepting the meeting was to discuss Sacoolas' potential extradition. They claim they were blindsided by the question of if they wanted to meet her after about 3 minutes in the oval office. To me, that is the most egregious error. Though I believe it to be an innocent question, not meant to be malicious. A, she's here if you want to meet her type of thing.
 
BerenErchamion
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:58 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Can we please not bring politics into this thread?????


Except it's an inherently political topic (really, everything is), so by bringing it up at all politics are already implicated.
 
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's murderer

Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:48 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
The adviser cooked this up?

"President Trump said Wednesday that he had arranged the meeting at the request of British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Speaking at a joint press conference with Italian President Sergio Mattarella, he described the encounter as “beautiful in a certain way,” adding that he expressed condolences “on behalf of our country. ”

He then admitted that he tried to get the family to meet Sacoolas, who was waiting in an adjacent room. “I offered to bring the person in question in,” he said. “And they weren’t ready for it.”"

Yes, that's fine but from the OP's linked article:
The Dunn family blames National Security Adviser O’Brien for the misstep. “It struck us that this meeting was hastily arranged by nincompoops on the run and in particular Mr. O’Brien, who appeared to be extremely uptight and aggressive and did not come across at all well in this meeting which required careful handling and sensitivity,” Seiger wrote. “The family remain open to the possibility of meeting Mrs. Sacoolas one day in the future but in a neutral and appropriately controlled environment.”


Still a dumb thing to do, obviously.

Tugg


It seems to me that Trump had no intention of the two parties meeting without the consent of the family. Given that they never did, that appears to be true. I listened to an interview from the family's lawyer with Neil Cavuto yesterday afternoon - the interview clearly shows that the family was excited to meet with Trump and white house and want to meet Sacoolas, but not in the oval office, and not so quickly after the accident. Their primary reason for accepting the meeting was to discuss Sacoolas' potential extradition. They claim they were blindsided by the question of if they wanted to meet her after about 3 minutes in the oval office. To me, that is the most egregious error. Though I believe it to be an innocent question, not meant to be malicious. A, she's here if you want to meet her type of thing.


The Political gold payoff was there. This is why what happened happened. There is no other reason to have both parties in The White House at the same time unless you are going for politics.

Trump could have been a real great charmer, but they had the White House Photographer at the ready should they have hit pay dirt. .
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Ken777
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Re: Trump wanted to ambush parents with teen's killer

Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:18 am

In terms of empathy and decency Trump simply demonstrated what a total slime ball he really is. :vomit:

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