olle
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Protests in Chile

Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:34 am

The protests in Chile continue and is now close 2 weeks;

As I understand it it is in reality one protest and one looting activity.

I have been in contact with, worked and lived Chile the last 20 years and my impression is that the fast economical development has been very impressive and Chile today gets a huge middleclass.

But the barriers for the working class to enter the middleclass is high.

Cost of living and fees for university and quality health care increases fast.

But also;

After earthquaqes and now the demonstrations starts a wave of looting and violence. People is now guarding their neighbourhoods against loooters thru the nights.

Where will this ends?
 
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SQ22
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Re: Protests in Chile

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:09 am

To avoid deletion please always provide a source the very next time you are starting a thread, thanks.

Here you go: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/worl ... tests.html
 
Pyrex
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Re: Protests in Chile

Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:38 pm

Chile is by far the most advanced country in Latin America, so naturally the left is hell-bent on destroying it and making it the next Venezuela.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Protests in Chile

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:02 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Chile is by far the most advanced country in Latin America, so naturally the left is hell-bent on destroying it and making it the next Venezuela.


Heavy sigh......

Oh Pyrex, you blame everything on the left. Everything.
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Protests in Chile

Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:46 pm

I live in Chile and I'm suffering this situations first hand. With my deep knowledge of this society I can say without hesitation the following :
1.- While the country has some problems unsolved ( low retirement wages, pricey health and limited access to become a home owner for example ), this is ( or WAS ) by far the country with the greatest chance ( if not the only ) to become a developed country in the near future in all the Latin American region. All the problems were affordable with hard work and good policies, but needing also foreign investment, stability and social peace. This stupid violent protest, without doubt organized and financed by communists and hard leftist, and supported by Maduro, Russia and other evil powers in the region, puts an immediate halt to foreign investment, stability and social peace, making the chances for a better future of Chile unexistant. Sadly, a minority of the population, with violence and looting, encouraged and supported by the communist, condemned the big majority of hard working people to stay in the third world in the foreseeable future.
2.- The immense majority of the people in this country is decent, hard working people, middle class and non violent people who wants to live in peace and order. Sadly, the looters has the power of violence and intimidation.
3.- There is a very limited minority, around 5 to 8 % of the total population, who defines themselves as anti-capitalist, they basically hate living in a country where you have to work to make money and pay for goods, they dream with a utopic society where the father State provides everything for free, taking money from the richest and distributing wealthy among the "poors"( they never explain how you can become rich in that kind of society, so basically they want to be maintained by others but they are not able to explain how the others would create wealth to maintain them ).
4. I came to my work ( in a remote location at the desert ) one week ago, when I left my house that day I lived in a dynamic, beautiful country where you could trust in the others. Tomorrow, when my work shift ends, I'll be going back to my house but living in a country semi destroyed by looting and vandals. This is consequence of that 8 % of empty skulls, under the leadership of the Chilean Communists and extreme left parties. This is consequence of our government being reluctant to stop this madness with the military force in the first hours. This kind of madness has to be stopped as soon as it starts. Once the madness spreads ( like happened this time ), it is much more difficult to stop without bullets and severe measures.
5.-Although I still have faith in this country and its good people, this situation will imply without doubt a step back in our way to become a developed country, the question is if this step back will imply years or decades. This is only the confirmation of one thing I know for sure, since I was a teenager : Where there is communism and hard left, there is chaos, destruction, poverty and ignorance.

For the spanish speakers, here is a gift, it last more than one hour, but definitely worth it :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0I--oB92fI

Rgds. G.
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Stratofish
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Re: Protests in Chile

Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:27 pm

The economic system that Pinochet installed and enshrined in the constitution (which is very difficult to change or amend) has simply failed. Of course the Chicago boys and their successors will always deny the obvious and scream the most rediculous conspiracy theories. There is zero indication Maduro is behind all this. He can barely hold on to power in Venezuela, he ain't got the funds nor reach.

Chile has seen the biggest and most prolonged growth of all South American nations, that's a fact. Also a fact however that VERY few actually benifitted from it. The average income isn't so bad, but the income of the median person/household sure is.
All the governments, including the so called socialist ones, did ride the neo-con train which Pinochet left them to suffer from. But since at least some of the economic indicators looked good from a distance, it simply paid (pun intended).

However also the Chilean society is partly responsible for what happens right now. The government would look vastly different if only some of those who are now out protesting could have been bothered to go out and vote. But a voter turn out of 49% total and even less for young people is not sustainable for any democracy, especially a democracy that's only one generation old (or young).

So now there are many videos and hundreds of witnesses of police and military personell looting and torching cars and even banks. Also of shooting with live ammo at peaceful protests, murdering innocent people. Wouldn't be surprising if that metro station converted torture centre would actually be confirmed later. Sad state really.
For the moment in Spanish only: http://www.24horas.xyz/nacional/directo ... 1-noticias

Gonzalo wrote:
4. I came to my work ( in a remote location at the desert ) one week ago, when I left my house that day I lived in a dynamic, beautiful country where you could trust in the others. Tomorrow, when my work shift ends, I'll be going back to my house but living in a country semi destroyed by looting and vandals.
Rgds. G.


When you get home I urge you to go out on the streets (if they let you thanks to the totally undemocratic curfew) and simply talk to as much people as you can. You will be surprised at how wrong you were.
Oh,and stay safe.
The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
 
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stl07
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Re: Protests in Chile

Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:59 pm

Pyrex wrote:
Chile is by far the most advanced country in Latin America, so naturally the left is hell-bent on destroying it and making it the next Venezuela.

I'm fairly certain they don't even have a "left" party in the American definition
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Protests in Chile

Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:12 am

Dear Stratofish, Your recommendation to “got out on the streets and talk to people” is very funny. I’m not a reporter from RT news coming to make interviews, I LIVE HERE IN CHILE. I know hundreds of persons and no one is similar to your description. We, the “people like me” are all middle class, hard workers and normal people. We represent almost 70 % of the population. So basically we don’t buy your horror stories of misery and explotation by the cruel Chicago Boys.
Once at home, I’ll do the same every decent chilean does, productive things, relax, enjoy the good things of life and deal with my problems in a civilized way. Meanwhile, i’ll be thankfull for “the undemocratic curfew “ that keeps the looters paid by the communists away from my home ( although my 9 mm will be ready for action just in case ).
Have a good night and keep your great sense of humor.

Rgds.
G.
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olle
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Re: Protests in Chile

Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:36 pm

Chile is as you say 2 different countries;

Even if it complicated to move from working class to middle class is easier then in let say Brazil or Mexico.

But special the upper class has gained dramatically the lower middle class has in many cases been stopped in a situation where cost of health care, daily shopping, schools has increased so fast, but salaries is still around USD 500-600.

Upper middle class and upper class will need to desire if they want to pay more taxes, offer easier access to quality health care and education or the unstable political situation might came back.
 
olle
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Re: Protests in Chile

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:40 pm

Tonight protests all over chile. Santiago around 1 million people in the streets.
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Protests in Chile

Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:21 pm

Everyday the real nature of this protest become more and more clear. There is a big percentage of the population claiming peacefully for better health, education, public transport and other things. BUT, on the other hand, the communists and hard leftist are saying ( screaming will be more accurate ), that the President must resign, making him responsible for the 19 deaths during the crisis. In other words, after killing 19 persons burning them inside factories and markets, they now blame the president and expects he delivers the power to “the people”.
In summary, the good things, many peaceful protesters doing fair demands, something we didn’t see in many years here.
The bad thing, the usual disgusting, despicable tradition of communists and hard leftists, trying to get power with their well known undemocratic methods and violence ( the only way they know ). I really hope they fail in this goal, otherwise, Chile will fall apart and the only choice for the decent people will be the international departure area at the airport.
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PPVRA
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Re: Protests in Chile

Mon Oct 28, 2019 7:11 pm

Gonzalo wrote:
The bad thing, the usual disgusting, despicable tradition of communists and hard leftists, trying to get power with their well known undemocratic methods and violence ( the only way they know ). I really hope they fail in this goal, otherwise, Chile will fall apart and the only choice for the decent people will be the international departure area at the airport.


Stay strong Chile, stay strong Gonzalo. Those scumbags are a minority, their ideas kicked to the curb by the vast majority of people on this earth, by decent people. They just act like spoiled children. Unfortunately, some act like terrorists, too.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: Protests in Chile

Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:25 am

PPVRA wrote:
Gonzalo wrote:
The bad thing, the usual disgusting, despicable tradition of communists and hard leftists, trying to get power with their well known undemocratic methods and violence ( the only way they know ). I really hope they fail in this goal, otherwise, Chile will fall apart and the only choice for the decent people will be the international departure area at the airport.


Stay strong Chile, stay strong Gonzalo. Those scumbags are a minority, their ideas kicked to the curb by the vast majority of people on this earth, by decent people. They just act like spoiled children. Unfortunately, some act like terrorists, too.


Thank you for your words my dear friend. We are certainly trying to resist doing our work and keeping our life normal, but the violent scumbags are really pushing hard to destroy our democracy. I only hope some day we can punish this scumbags accodingly.

Rgds.
G.
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olle
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Re: Protests in Chile

Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:09 am

The problem is that the extreme left burns the whole place down. Yesterday the military was off the street and police stayed put. Disaster happend.

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