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WarRI1
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Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:00 am

https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support- ... cans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.
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WarRI1
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:03 am

WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.
https://www.google.com/search?



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-r ... 2019-05-24



This was discussed on NBC News tonight on the beginning of a new series on wealth distribution, they used as an example a teacher in SC making 35k per year. She is living with her parents and working two jobs to try and save some money. She has one child. I made over twice that amount while working and I have been retired 22 years in 2020. Union wages of course, never mind the benefits.
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Aaron747
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:42 am

A sorry state of affairs indeed. Real wage growth has been piss poor since the mid-1970s. The 1980s shift to chasing quarterly KPIs didn’t help and accelerated the worsening. The best period for the American middle class was 1955-1972, and guess what, the wealthy were still doing fine then.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:21 am

Aaron747 wrote:
A sorry state of affairs indeed. Real wage growth has been piss poor since the mid-1970s. The 1980s shift to chasing quarterly KPIs didn’t help and accelerated the worsening. The best period for the American middle class was 1955-1972, and guess what, the wealthy were still doing fine then.



They always do fine and greed always sets in when it is allowed and condoned by our government which to our surprise happens when we elect the wealthy to run our government to represent the average citizen. We see how that works out. This lying thief we have now is an example, a sterling example.
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tommy1808
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:51 am

Aaron747 wrote:
A sorry state of affairs indeed.


Well, with an GDP growth of only ~2% with ~5% GDP deficit spending real GDP "growth" is currently at minus 3%

It's only the overdraft credit card that keeps the Trump economy from collapsing.taxing the rich won't do it, corrupt people need to go to jail. Like represent ratives that stated publically donors told them to pass the tax cuts or forget about future donations ... text book bribery.

Best regards
Thomasol
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
NIKV69
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:56 am

WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.


Or more and more millennials refuse to work.
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WarRI1
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:18 am

NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.


Or more and more millennials refuse to work.



The work incentive has been destroyed by exploitation from my point of view. I worked for 42 years, never did I see such greed and exploitation of workers. The corporations in my lifetime are Pikers when compared to today's corporations. Like Henry Ford once said, pay the people enough to buy the products I make. The Robber Barons ride again with the help of our government.
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tommy1808
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:34 am

NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.


Or more and more millennials refuse to work.


Millenials are more likely to be in a job as baby boomers and much more than the Silent gen had at the same age and the same as gen X.
So I guess that means that boomers and silent generation where the lazy loafers...

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:39 am

NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.


Or more and more millennials refuse to work.


Dunno about where you live but millenials where I grew up in Silicon Valley are hard at work, and are designing the solutions of tomorrow.
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WarRI1
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:49 am

tommy1808 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.


Or more and more millennials refuse to work.


Millenials are more likely to be in a job as baby boomers and much more than the Silent gen had at the same age and the same as gen X.
So I guess that means that boomers and silent generation where the lazy loafers...

Best regards
Thomas



I for the life of me cannot understand the defense of these greedy people by our members on here. They have millions and billions, and ordinary people defend them? Naive to a fault ?Gullible? Stupidity? Self Greed ? I never thought I should live in a Mansion, while others had no food and shelter. Remember the French Revolution as well as all others, usually the result of what else, Greed and exploitation!!
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tommy1808
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:05 am

WarRI1 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Or more and more millennials refuse to work.


Millenials are more likely to be in a job as baby boomers and much more than the Silent gen had at the same age and the same as gen X.
So I guess that means that boomers and silent generation where the lazy loafers...

Best regards
Thomas



I for the life of me cannot understand the defense of these greedy people by our members on here. They have millions and billions, and ordinary people defend them? Naive to a fault ?Gullible? Stupidity? Self Greed ?


Mormons are usually considered being among the most gullible people on the planet, with their magic underware and scripture made up by a convicted fraudster....

Guess who they didn't vote for.....

Remember the French Revolution as well as all others, usually the result of what else, Greed and exploitation!!


fun fact: communism worked reasonably fine until income inequality got too obvious.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:38 am

NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.


Or more and more millennials refuse to work.



Weren't you making a remark of someone being age-insensitive.........

This remark is ignorant at best and deliberate insulting to millennials at worst. I struggle to see the reason why you decided to post this, other than being drunk at the time.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:11 am

NIKV69 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.


Or more and more millennials refuse to work.


Why would they want to work when they get paid piss all for there labour?
 
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DL717
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:44 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.
https://www.google.com/search?



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-r ... 2019-05-24



This was discussed on NBC News tonight on the beginning of a new series on wealth distribution, they used as an example a teacher in SC making 35k per year. She is living with her parents and working two jobs to try and save some money. She has one child. I made over twice that amount while working and I have been retired 22 years in 2020. Union wages of course, never mind the benefits.


Who do you think continues to pay for your pension? The guy at McDonalds or the wealthy investor you hate so much making sure your pension fund is secure?
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:55 pm

DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.
https://www.google.com/search?



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-r ... 2019-05-24



This was discussed on NBC News tonight on the beginning of a new series on wealth distribution, they used as an example a teacher in SC making 35k per year. She is living with her parents and working two jobs to try and save some money. She has one child. I made over twice that amount while working and I have been retired 22 years in 2020. Union wages of course, never mind the benefits.


Who do you think continues to pay for your pension? The guy at McDonalds or the wealthy investor you hate so much making sure your pension fund is secure?


Are you a member of the 1% club? If not, the cards are stacked against you as well...........
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:12 pm

WarRI1 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.
https://www.google.com/search?



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-r ... 2019-05-24



This was discussed on NBC News tonight on the beginning of a new series on wealth distribution, they used as an example a teacher in SC making 35k per year. She is living with her parents and working two jobs to try and save some money. She has one child. I made over twice that amount while working and I have been retired 22 years in 2020. Union wages of course, never mind the benefits.


I don't think it will help much, taxing billionaires more.
First of all, those billionaires have most of their wealth in stocks and bonds. Taxing them at a higher INCOME tax rate will thus make very little difference.
Secondly, even if you took all their shares from them and distribute say $1B among 350 million Americans, everyone just gets $2.86 extra.
I think the main problem has been wage growth relative to the amount of inflation (and not the bogus CPI number). Part of that problem is due to money printing and endless Wall Street bailouts, Globalization ("take this shitty salary or else your job is shipped to Asia") and increasing taxes (although in the US taxes have not increased that much, but spending has been covered by increasing deficits).

Regarding the teachers salary of $35K per year, it's pretty simply to figure if it is "fair" or not. See what the school takes in from local government and parents contributions, deduct all expenses except salaries and see what you are left with. If that is much more than $35K per teacher, then yes she could earn more. If not, then not.
Last edited by Dieuwer on Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:24 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
A sorry state of affairs indeed. Real wage growth has been piss poor since the mid-1970s. The 1980s shift to chasing quarterly KPIs didn’t help and accelerated the worsening. The best period for the American middle class was 1955-1972, and guess what, the wealthy were still doing fine then.


This is an absurdly crazed statement. That anyone would think life for the middle class in the 1955-1972 period was better than today shows some sort of advanced derangement syndrome.

Anyone here want to go back to driving a 1960s car, watch 4 channels on a TV, no mobile phones, just dial phones, travel was very expensive (Bkackpool for the beach, anyone?), health care then was very poor by comparison. My BIL had stent surgery that would have saved his father an early death. No a,punt of money in 1960 could have purchased what’s easily and cheaply available to high schoolers today.

GF
 
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casinterest
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:25 pm

Here is the simple truth. If the wealthy value roads, bridges, airports, buildings, and other government projects having more than a shack design, then they need to be willing to pay a larger share for the necessities of that construction. If they don't want to pay more, then they can give up their wealth or job and move on to poverty and joblessness and let someone with more skill take over.

I paid crap for infrastructure as a youth, but benefited well from it. I have no problem as i earn more and accumulate more wealth paying a fare share for that which benefited so much from in youth from,. and most Americans that actually understand finance support this.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:30 pm

casinterest wrote:
Here is the simple truth. If the wealthy value roads, bridges, airports, buildings, and other government projects having more than a shack design, then they need to be willing to pay a larger share for the necessities of that construction. If they don't want to pay more, then they can give up their wealth or job and move on to poverty and joblessness and let someone with more skill take over.

I paid crap for infrastructure as a youth, but benefited well from it. I have no problem as i earn more and accumulate more wealth paying a fare share for that which benefited so much from in youth from,. and most Americans that actually understand finance support this.


The Simpler Truth ( ;) ) is that if you spend $1 Trillion on armor and bomb a country to smithereens, you are left with nothing but destruction. If however you spend $1 Trillion on roads, bridges, airports, buildings, and other government projects having more than a shack design, then you have something you can enjoy for a very long time and have actual use of it for a very long time.

So it is not just about how to get money, it is also about how you spend it.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:40 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Here is the simple truth. If the wealthy value roads, bridges, airports, buildings, and other government projects having more than a shack design, then they need to be willing to pay a larger share for the necessities of that construction. If they don't want to pay more, then they can give up their wealth or job and move on to poverty and joblessness and let someone with more skill take over.

I paid crap for infrastructure as a youth, but benefited well from it. I have no problem as i earn more and accumulate more wealth paying a fare share for that which benefited so much from in youth from,. and most Americans that actually understand finance support this.


The Simpler Truth ( ;) ) is that if you spend $1 Trillion on armor and bomb a country to smithereens, you are left with nothing but destruction. If however you spend $1 Trillion on roads, bridges, airports, buildings, and other government projects having more than a shack design, then you have something you can enjoy for a very long time and have actual use of it for a very long time.

So it is not just about how to get money, it is also about how you spend it.


Truthfully though, that bombs , gas and ammo don't cost that much. The infrastructure to deliver them costs a lot more .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:45 pm

DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://fortune.com/2019/02/04/support-for-tax-increase-on-wealthy-americans-poll/

I would guess that this will increase as the wealth of this nation goes to fewer and fewer people.
https://www.google.com/search?



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-r ... 2019-05-24



This was discussed on NBC News tonight on the beginning of a new series on wealth distribution, they used as an example a teacher in SC making 35k per year. She is living with her parents and working two jobs to try and save some money. She has one child. I made over twice that amount while working and I have been retired 22 years in 2020. Union wages of course, never mind the benefits.


Who do you think continues to pay for your pension? The guy at McDonalds or the wealthy investor you hate so much making sure your pension fund is secure?


The guy at McDonald's and millions of other consumers. Without them company stock is worth diddly squat, and without them there are no wealthy people, not even moderately well of people. Money is only a tender to swap for other peoples time. The week doesn't have more hours for the investor than it has for the burger flipper.

Let millions of low and minimum wage workers decide they dont need an iPhone as status symbol and see hundreds of billions evaporate.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:40 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
A sorry state of affairs indeed. Real wage growth has been piss poor since the mid-1970s. The 1980s shift to chasing quarterly KPIs didn’t help and accelerated the worsening. The best period for the American middle class was 1955-1972, and guess what, the wealthy were still doing fine then.


This is an absurdly crazed statement. That anyone would think life for the middle class in the 1955-1972 period was better than today shows some sort of advanced derangement syndrome.

Anyone here want to go back to driving a 1960s car, watch 4 channels on a TV, no mobile phones, just dial phones, travel was very expensive (Bkackpool for the beach, anyone?), health care then was very poor by comparison. My BIL had stent surgery that would have saved his father an early death. No a,punt of money in 1960 could have purchased what’s easily and cheaply available to high schoolers today.

GF


Silly non sequitur. The specific context was real wages, not functionality or variety of products on the market or available medical technologies. Massive critical thinking fail.

There is no way to factually dispute the reality of that time to today: in the majority of American metropolitan areas in that period, when GDP growth exceeded an annualized 5% eleven times, most people holding down a decent job could afford a decent home on one income, with a couple of kids. COL in critical categories - housing, food, healthcare, childcare etc. have massively outpaced wage growth since that time, hence the lack of progression in *real* wages.

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Tugger
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:45 pm

What is interesting is that the actual "wealth redistribution" has been only upwards over the past 50 years and not what a lot of mouthpieces claim. The idea that more wealth overall is being redistributed to "the poor" etc. has no basis in fact.

Tax policies are supposed to manage the needs of citizens and the nation, instead we have been convinced that they are "just bad" (unless spent for the military I guess). We need to collect sufficient taxes to manage the current spending and we refuse to do that.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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seb146
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:20 pm

There is an economic theory out there that Republicans, since Reagan, have been cutting funding for services like Medicare and Social Security and even IRS. When this happens, there are fewer funds to hire people so paperwork is backed up and lines form at local offices. People start complaining about the horrible service so Republicans suggest a solution: privatize it all because government does not work. Republicans will have to find another war to spend all this additional income from the wealthy so they don't have to fund thing We The People want.
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Alias1024
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:22 pm

Wait, so most people want OTHER people to pay higher taxes? I'm shocked!

Also, the article is eight months old and has a glaringly obvious error in stating that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was ever a presidential candidate since she's well under the constitutional minimum age of thirty five.
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BravoOne
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:30 pm

I doubt that additional taxes on the rich are going solve any social economic issues that face our nation today. The left will always want to impose themselves on others pocket books claiming the system is unfair. Becareful what you wish for as the term wealthy may easily fall to a new low if that's the way taxes are adjudicated in the future.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:53 pm

People seems to not understand taxes and the wealthy. The wealthier people are the more they work at (and can afford to do so) avoiding or minimizing the tax impact on their lives. To those that think "the rich will be taxed more and will become less wealthy": you are wrong (overall), the truly rich will shift income and wealth management strategies and do just fine. They may "bring in less" but will still be fine. They may not have income of $26M for the year, and be limited to only $18M but there will not be a noticeable impact. Same for those earning $2-$4M, they may bring in $1.5-$3M instead but will have moved their strategy and will spend money to reduce that "income" etc. We don't just sit on our thumbs.

The idea of good tax policy is to create a situation where money flows to more citizens, more citizens have more ability to do more and create more wealth. It does not mean "handout" (though for flamebait many who blindly support lowering taxes will claim that) nor does it mean "more government" what it means, what it does is change the flow of money. If done right more will flow to the lowest rungs of the income ladder and move up from there. I have never understood why some people are opposed to more money flowing to the bottom levels of the economy and instead think it is better for it to flow to the top level. The more money moves (look up "velocity") the better it functions, the better the society functions. And the lowest level move it the fastest out of their pocket and into the economy.

Let me be clear: I am not in favor of more "welfare" etc. I don't even like the welfare that is the US military. What I support is creating situations where more people CAN work, CAN do more. If that means better healthcare access and improving infrastructure etc. then I am all for it.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
anrec80
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:26 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
Wait, so most people want OTHER people to pay higher taxes? I'm shocked!


Obviously. It’s always easier and more pleasant get some life’s goodies at someone else’s expense than to actually work and contribute for them.
 
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DL717
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:10 pm

Dutchy wrote:
DL717 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
https://www.google.com/search?



https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-r ... 2019-05-24



This was discussed on NBC News tonight on the beginning of a new series on wealth distribution, they used as an example a teacher in SC making 35k per year. She is living with her parents and working two jobs to try and save some money. She has one child. I made over twice that amount while working and I have been retired 22 years in 2020. Union wages of course, never mind the benefits.


Who do you think continues to pay for your pension? The guy at McDonalds or the wealthy investor you hate so much making sure your pension fund is secure?


Are you a member of the 1% club? If not, the cards are stacked against you as well...........


False.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:11 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
Wait, so most people want OTHER people to pay higher taxes? I'm shocked!


Obviously. It’s always easier and more pleasant get some life’s goodies at someone else’s expense than to actually work and contribute for them.

Let me clarify that I do pay taxes, and that in any "increase taxes on the wealthy" I will pay more taxes, and I support higher taxes.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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DL717
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:13 pm

Tugger wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
Wait, so most people want OTHER people to pay higher taxes? I'm shocked!


Obviously. It’s always easier and more pleasant get some life’s goodies at someone else’s expense than to actually work and contribute for them.

Let me clarify that I do pay taxes, and that in any "increase taxes on the wealthy" I will pay more taxes, and I support higher taxes.

Tugg


If there is one benefit to European type socialism. Everyone pays when they buy something. Maybe then they‘ll get that there’s no such thing as a free lunch.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:32 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
A sorry state of affairs indeed. Real wage growth has been piss poor since the mid-1970s. The 1980s shift to chasing quarterly KPIs didn’t help and accelerated the worsening. The best period for the American middle class was 1955-1972, and guess what, the wealthy were still doing fine then.


This is an absurdly crazed statement. That anyone would think life for the middle class in the 1955-1972 period was better than today shows some sort of advanced derangement syndrome.

Anyone here want to go back to driving a 1960s car, watch 4 channels on a TV, no mobile phones, just dial phones, travel was very expensive (Bkackpool for the beach, anyone?), health care then was very poor by comparison. My BIL had stent surgery that would have saved his father an early death. No a,punt of money in 1960 could have purchased what’s easily and cheaply available to high schoolers today.

GF


Silly non sequitur. The specific context was real wages, not functionality or variety of products on the market or available medical technologies. Massive critical thinking fail.

There is no way to factually dispute the reality of that time to today: in the majority of American metropolitan areas in that period, when GDP growth exceeded an annualized 5% eleven times, most people holding down a decent job could afford a decent home on one income, with a couple of kids. COL in critical categories - housing, food, healthcare, childcare etc. have massively outpaced wage growth since that time, hence the lack of progression in *real* wages.

Image

Image


And, the critical fact is we earn money to consume, not just have money. Today we can live far better, have safer, healthier lives than then. Our real dollar income must account for the goods and services that income will provide and its does much better now. You might note, the Glory Day’s were killed by inflation of the late Nixon and Carter years.

GF
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 11986
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:30 pm

DL717 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Who do you think continues to pay for your pension? The guy at McDonalds or the wealthy investor you hate so much making sure your pension fund is secure?


Are you a member of the 1% club? If not, the cards are stacked against you as well...........


False.


Ok, so you are not a member of the 1% club.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:12 pm

anrec80 wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
Wait, so most people want OTHER people to pay higher taxes? I'm shocked!


Obviously. It’s always easier and more pleasant get some life’s goodies at someone else’s expense than to actually work and contribute for them.


The laziest US generation of them all, the silent generation, lowest work force participation in history, refuses to pay enough taxes to enable others to have the same goodies they had. I don't recall them protesting higher taxes on the wealthy when they where young in the 50s and 60s.....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:41 pm

Dutchy wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Are you a member of the 1% club? If not, the cards are stacked against you as well...........


False.


Ok, so you are not a member of the 1% club.


Nah. Stopped investing when I retired. You’re on your own now.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:53 pm

DL717 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
DL717 wrote:

False.


Ok, so you are not a member of the 1% club.


Nah. Stopped investing when I retired. You’re on your own now.


Dutchy is Dutch, aka he is living in a country that not just has higher taxes, but also beats the US on most quantifiable stuff.

They still have rich people, and some 8 or 9 out of 10 dutch have more wealth than 8 or 9 out of 10 Americans...

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:12 am

Tugger wrote:
Let me clarify that I do pay taxes, and that in any "increase taxes on the wealthy" I will pay more taxes, and I support higher taxes.

Tugg


I believe that money made by an individual belong to that individual, as well as right to choose what to do with them. If you want more of your money go towards what you believe is social good (education, healthcare, etc.) - this is commendable, and there are plenty of foundations and charities for you to choose from. But I do not believe you should force anything fun upon anyone.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:19 am

tommy1808 wrote:
The laziest US generation of them all, the silent generation, lowest work force participation in history, refuses to pay enough taxes to enable others to have the same goodies they had. I don't recall them protesting higher taxes on the wealthy when they where young in the 50s and 60s.....

Best regards
Thomas


I would not call this generation laziest, but I do find that lately more and more people want to do just what they want, on their terms, and want from government, taxpayers and society more goodies that they actually worked for. E.g. some freelancer cannot afford their own housing, and instead of going to get a full time job they want to “tax the rich” so that housing would be provided to them, and in addition to that, housing of size and quality they believe they are entitled to, and in location they believe they are entitled to live. Same is true about many other aspects - education, retirement, healthcare, etc.

And they do not want to see the fundamentals - society today is aging, and there are more and more members to support per worker over time.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:22 am

Dutchy wrote:
Are you a member of the 1% club? If not, the cards are stacked against you as well...........


And just as any other socialist (European in this case), Dutchy went on counting someone else’s money and assets. It doesn’t matter to me if someone is or is not in this 1%. Whatever the case - it’s their assets, they earned them and haven’t taken away anything from anyone.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:33 am

anrec80 wrote:
more goodies that they actually worked for. E.g. some freelancer cannot afford their own housing, and instead of going to get a full time job they want to “tax the rich” so that housing would be provided to them, and in addition to that, housing of size and quality they believe they are entitled to, and in location they believe they are entitled to live. Same is true about many other aspects - education, retirement, healthcare, etc.


Living in a place where you don't have to work if you really don't want to* and still have housing, money and health care I can be pretty certain that their number is small. The money on them is still wasted, but in the great scheme of things they don't matter. At least not enough to make access harder, as that would exclude people that need it.
Healthcare and education are however rights.

Best regards
Thomas

*technically they have to take any job, but legally you can not be sanctioned below the minimum living standards, so there are ways to getting around. I would support government assigned jobs beyond let's say one year. There are enough parks and sidewalks to clean.
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
DTVG
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:46 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Ok, so you are not a member of the 1% club.


Nah. Stopped investing when I retired. You’re on your own now.


Dutchy is Dutch, aka he is living in a country that not just has higher taxes, but also beats the US on most quantifiable stuff.

They still have rich people, and some 8 or 9 out of 10 dutch have more wealth than 8 or 9 out of 10 Americans...

Best regards
Thomas


Let us not forget that the Netherlands is a tax haven, with a huge amount of phantom FDI, which is great for the government and somewhat for the people. The EU is just too dumb to realize it at the moment. They are busier with Ireland right now.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:51 am

DTVG wrote:
The EU is just too dumb to realize it at the moment.


You being unable to follow what the EU is doing does not mean the EU is dumb .....

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/ ... lice-force

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
DTVG
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:06 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:59 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DTVG wrote:
The EU is just too dumb to realize it at the moment.


You being unable to follow what the EU is doing does not mean the EU is dumb .....

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/ ... lice-force

Best regards
Thomas


Excellent, I see you have a lot of faith in the EUs institutions. Simply setting up a special (!) commission and releasing reports does not mean action.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 2:14 am

DTVG wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DTVG wrote:
The EU is just too dumb to realize it at the moment.


You being unable to follow what the EU is doing does not mean the EU is dumb .....

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/ ... lice-force

Best regards
Thomas


Excellent, I see you have a lot of faith in the EUs institutions. .


It being the most efficient bureaucracy this planet has ever seen I of course do.

Simply setting up a special (!) commission and releasing reports does not mean action.


Oh my good, the horror of actually accessing a situation and gather data to make sound policies ....
No wonder populism is on the rise if making measured decision making processes are already bad....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
dmg626
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:29 am

The wealthy should pay out the ass, until the threshold is at my income, then it’s not fair
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:52 am

dmg626 wrote:
The wealthy should pay out the ass, until the threshold is at my income, then it’s not fair


Yeah, but that is just YOU. I make enough to just max out all social security contributions and make it into the highest tax bracket, yet I am not a whiny little snowflake about it....

I would be totally fine if the percentage an income millionaire contributes would be the same as I do however.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:22 am

[twoid][/twoid]
dmg626 wrote:
The wealthy should pay out the ass, until the threshold is at my income, then it’s not fair


I think you, me and the wealthy should pay exactly the same percentage of income tax - only then this can be called “paying fair share”.
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:26 am

DTVG wrote:
Excellent, I see you have a lot of faith in the EUs institutions. Simply setting up a special (!) commission and releasing reports does not mean action.


In EU, action is a no small deal. They are good primarily at expressing solidarity and in all sorts of bureaucratic stuff, such as setting up commissions. It’s funny that EU deals like this on international stage too - “let’s have this: you do this for us, and then we create a special commission how can we help you”. Doesn’t go far obviously. I think that the institutions with such efficiency should be just disbanded.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:38 am

anrec80 wrote:
I think that the institutions with such efficiency should be just disbanded.


Gosh geez .... if the EU commission as essentially European government with 1/3 the staff of the US department of agriculture alone, or about 1/20th of the Russian government, as a government for 500 million people is inefficient, what is literally any other government on the planet? Frozen in time?

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
anrec80
Posts: 2759
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Most Americans support higher taxes for wealthy.

Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:51 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Gosh geez .... if the EU commission as essentially European government with 1/3 the staff of the US department of agriculture alone, or about 1/20th of the Russian government, as a government for 500 million people is inefficient, what is literally any other government on the planet? Frozen in time?

Best regards
Thomas


The most important thing is not how big or expensive the institution is, but what contribution does it make. And also - is it trusted by people, do they find it in demand. EU commission isn't that small at all for its functions, and certainly consists of too many too well paid officials. If all the institution does it setting up commissions without any actions upon them - it's not needed, obviously. Each member country has its own elected government, generally trusted by its citizens - and it's the national governments that handle all social stuff, education, welfare, defense, foreign relations, housing, retirement plans, healthcare, etc. None of that is up to EU commission.

And I would not call it a government. EU commission does not really deal with foreign relations - foreign powers prefer to not deal with it, and deal with member states directly on the matters interesting to them. Its impact is visible on relatively small things like cellular roaming, for example. And too often, its directives are treated by member states citizens as someone telling them how to live.

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