User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 17785
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:19 pm

I've started this thread for discussion of all topics relating to the UK General Election 2019.

The aim is to keep all election related discussion here rather than in the Brexit thread. I appreciate that there will inevitably be overlap between the two since the election is in danger of being a 'single issue' election. Hopefully we can keep the election specific stuff here.

So, day one of the election and the Tories are off to a flier:

- Rees-Mogg manages to insult the victims and survivors of the Grenfell Tower disaster before issuing a "sorry, not sorry" politicians' apology.

- Andrew Bridgen then has to apologise for supporting Rees-Mogg on the issue.

- Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns quits over a scandal about a former aide who sabotaged a rape trial.

Only another five weeks to go! :shock:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3057
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:38 pm

I’m so excited I can barely sit still ( jumping to switch of the radio because I’m bored of it all already)

I’m in my early 30s and cannot remember such a horrible “who do I like least” decision making process.

I’m really looking forward to the news on Election Day though.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:13 pm

Add to your list scbrimi:

-Boris making a statement outside number 10 and telling 3 flat our lies in the first 5mins.

-Deliberately blocking the report into Russian election inteference, despite all inteligence agencies and civil service clearing it. Apparently he hasn't had time to check it. I would have thought since we're having another election and no new legislation has been put in place regarding electoral law that this of the highest importance.
 
BN747
Posts: 7030
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:33 pm

I'm not embarrassed to admit that although I have many visits to the UK, I (like most Americans) are completely clueless about this current stage of Brexit...as you can see, we have our hands full here.

But this is my question...and and can it be answered in simple terms?

Will this Election (in 6 weeks) extend UK's exit? Or...
Allow the UK to completely reverse course and call off the whole thing?
Put it on the path to that?

Or is the UK's exit the ultimate aim no matter what the election results?

One of those has to be correct. It is a case of either you're in or you are out...correct?


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3057
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:42 pm

BN747 wrote:
I'm not embarrassed to admit that although I have many visits to the UK, I (like most Americans) are completely clueless about this current stage of Brexit...as you can see, we have our hands full here.

But this is my question...and and can it be answered in simple terms?

Will this Election (in 6 weeks) extend UK's exit? Or...
Allow the UK to completely reverse course and call off the whole thing?
Put it on the path to that?

Or is the UK's exit the ultimate aim no matter what the election results?

One of those has to be correct. It is a case of either you're in or you are out...correct?


BN747

Anything can change. If there is a huge amount of changing MPs then parliament can in theory pass wholly new legislation. Parliament decide if something becomes law and at that point all bets are off.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image
 
BN747
Posts: 7030
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:47 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
BN747 wrote:
I'm not embarrassed to admit that although I have many visits to the UK, I (like most Americans) are completely clueless about this current stage of Brexit...as you can see, we have our hands full here.

But this is my question...and and can it be answered in simple terms?

Will this Election (in 6 weeks) extend UK's exit? Or...
Allow the UK to completely reverse course and call off the whole thing?
Put it on the path to that?

Or is the UK's exit the ultimate aim no matter what the election results?

One of those has to be correct. It is a case of either you're in or you are out...correct?


BN747

Anything can change. If there is a huge amount of changing MPs then parliament can in theory pass wholly new legislation. Parliament decide if something becomes law and at that point all bets are off.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow! Okay....

Didn't see that coming... so in short, you are saying there is the possibility that this whole entire event can end up back at square one....as if it never happened at ALL???

Man, I wish could call in re-dos of that size!!!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Bostrom
Posts: 843
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:56 pm

BN747 wrote:

Wow! Okay....

Didn't see that coming... so in short, you are saying there is the possibility that this whole entire event can end up back at square one....as if it never happened at ALL???

Man, I wish could call in re-dos of that size!!!

BN747


Yes, the ECJ has ruled that the UK can unilaterally revoke the A50 notification if they want to. And the Libdem's position on Brexit is that they will do just that, but a Libdem led government is probably very unlikely.
 
steveinbc
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:30 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:06 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
I’m so excited I can barely sit still ( jumping to switch of the radio because I’m bored of it all already)

I’m in my early 30s and cannot remember such a horrible “who do I like least” decision making process.

I’m really looking forward to the news on Election Day though.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don"t think this is a UK unique predicament. We just went through the same unpleasant experience in Canada. All choices were poor. Low turnout and a nasty personality driven campaign rather than any focus on policies.
A319 320 321 330 340 380 B707 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 BAe1-11 Trident 1, 2, 3B Viscount Lancaster VC10 HS748, ATP DHC-1, 3 Dash-8 Dash-400 Shorts 330 360 Embraer Banderiante Brasileria 175 190 BAe146 Saab 200 DC-3 -8 -9 -10 MD-11 ATR42-72
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:09 pm

Bostrom wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Wow! Okay....

Didn't see that coming... so in short, you are saying there is the possibility that this whole entire event can end up back at square one....as if it never happened at ALL???

Man, I wish could call in re-dos of that size!!!

BN747


Yes, the ECJ has ruled that the UK can unilaterally revoke the A50 notification if they want to. And the Libdem's position on Brexit is that they will do just that, but a Libdem led government is probably very unlikely.


Labour have stated they would negotiate a new Brexit deal with the EU, based on a different type of trading relationship than what the Conservatives have wanted and then once that deal exists, will put a referendum to the public with remain being an option. Many Labour MPs have publically come out and said no matter what deal there is, they will campaign to remain.

The election will almost certainly be exceedingly close, and we could end up with a minority Conservative govenment so the chaos would probably continue. We could have a minority Labour govenment and they could try and get through their plan with support from the other remain parties - Lib Dems, SNP, Independants. At the moment it's incredibly hard to see any party get a majority.

We could, end up exactly where we are now, in almost paralysis.
 
BN747
Posts: 7030
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:34 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Wow! Okay....

Didn't see that coming... so in short, you are saying there is the possibility that this whole entire event can end up back at square one....as if it never happened at ALL???

Man, I wish could call in re-dos of that size!!!

BN747


Yes, the ECJ has ruled that the UK can unilaterally revoke the A50 notification if they want to. And the Libdem's position on Brexit is that they will do just that, but a Libdem led government is probably very unlikely.


Labour have stated they would negotiate a new Brexit deal with the EU, based on a different type of trading relationship than what the Conservatives have wanted and then once that deal exists, will put a referendum to the public with remain being an option. Many Labour MPs have publically come out and said no matter what deal there is, they will campaign to remain.


To Remain...now I ask, 'where does the public stand today on whether to remain..' mostly for or mostly against?

Or is this question only answered by election results.?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:42 pm

BN747 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Bostrom wrote:

Yes, the ECJ has ruled that the UK can unilaterally revoke the A50 notification if they want to. And the Libdem's position on Brexit is that they will do just that, but a Libdem led government is probably very unlikely.


Labour have stated they would negotiate a new Brexit deal with the EU, based on a different type of trading relationship than what the Conservatives have wanted and then once that deal exists, will put a referendum to the public with remain being an option. Many Labour MPs have publically come out and said no matter what deal there is, they will campaign to remain.


To Remain...now I ask, 'where does the public stand today on whether to remain..' mostly for or mostly against?

Or is this question only answered by election results.?

BN747


The only thing we have to go on is polls. Almost every poll taken from 2 months after the vote to today, show a remain bias above and beyond margin of error of the original vote. At this time it's around 55 remain vs 45 leave. What type of leave people wanted then or now, we have no idea. Brexiteers will argue that it's just a poll and that everyone wants the same brexit. There is no evidence to support this.

An election should never be a one subject matter vote which is why most of us remainers didn't want one before Brexit was sorted. But those who do want Brexit want an election to 'purge' the remainers from parliament.

If the election wasn't more weighted to be about Brexit there is no way in hell the Conservatives should get any majority or even minority govenment. They have made a complete mess of everything from Health, NHS, Police, Schools. The country in some places is a mess and they in no way deserve another chance.

If we get a majority Conservative govenment, or minority propped up by Brexit party (won't happen, luckliy thanks to UK's first past the post system and the way wards (constituences) are carved up) then you could say people seemingly still want Brexit. Any other result and it's a definite rejection of Brexit.

What is interesting is that in marginal seats there is already agreements being reached with remain parties to not stand a candidate in certain areas, so those with the highest chance of being able to beat a Brexit supporting current MP get more votes. This is happening in N Ireland where Sinn Fein aren't standing in some areas to ensure the vote isn't split. At the same time Nigel Farage aka Brexit Party Ltd has said they will field candidates against the Conservatives in hundreds of wards. This will split the Brexit vote.

This tells you everything you need to know about what THE biggest topic is about the election.


From my side, the area that I can vote in has had an ERG member Tory MP for decades. There no way I will ever vote Conservative again, and Labour are going too far to the left for me. So I need a centralist party. Only people who come close are the Lib Dems. I'll probably vote for them, in the hope they go into coaliation with Labour (so far they have said they won't) and dampen down some of the more crazy plans. The fact they would stop Brexit is also a major plus point. The general quality of parties around right now is pretty appaling though.
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1780
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:13 pm

BN747 wrote:
But this is my question...and and can it be answered in simple terms?

Will this Election (in 6 weeks) extend UK's exit? [...]


:lol: Noob! As if any of those questions can be answered "in simple terms"... ;)

(Not mocking you, by the way - the straight response should be "no - no-one knows how this is going to turn out".)
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 17785
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:50 pm

BN747 wrote:
I'm not embarrassed to admit that although I have many visits to the UK, I (like most Americans) are completely clueless about this current stage of Brexit...as you can see, we have our hands full here.

But this is my question...and and can it be answered in simple terms?

Will this Election (in 6 weeks) extend UK's exit? Or...
Allow the UK to completely reverse course and call off the whole thing?
Put it on the path to that?

Or is the UK's exit the ultimate aim no matter what the election results?

One of those has to be correct. It is a case of either you're in or you are out...correct?

BN747


The simple answer is "All of the above" are possible outcomes depending on the exact party breakdown of the new Parliament. :crazy:

The distinctly possible nightmare scenario is that we end up with another Tory minority Government. :banghead:

Reinhardt wrote:
From my side, the area that I can vote in has had an ERG member Tory MP for decades. There no way I will ever vote Conservative again, and Labour are going too far to the left for me. So I need a centralist party. Only people who come close are the Lib Dems. I'll probably vote for them, in the hope they go into coaliation with Labour (so far they have said they won't) and dampen down some of the more crazy plans. The fact they would stop Brexit is also a major plus point. The general quality of parties around right now is pretty appaling though.


I think there will be a lot of tactical voting in this election. I would happily vote Lib Dem, but my constituency is a close Tory/Labour seat with the Lib Dems a very distant third. If I want to try and unseat the sitting Tory MP (well, she's actually not standing, but...) I would have to vote Labour which is not particularly appealing to me personally.

I could easily see the next Government being a Labour/Lib Dem/SNP style coalition. As much as they all say they won't go into coalition, things tend to change once there's a sniff of power in the air. As much as I would hope any partners of Labour would help to moderate Labour's more extreme policies, both the Lib Dems and SNP will have a price for their cooperation.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
BN747
Posts: 7030
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:41 pm

scbriml wrote:
BN747 wrote:
I'm not embarrassed to admit that although I have many visits to the UK, I (like most Americans) are completely clueless about this current stage of Brexit...as you can see, we have our hands full here.

But this is my question...and and can it be answered in simple terms?

Will this Election (in 6 weeks) extend UK's exit? Or...
Allow the UK to completely reverse course and call off the whole thing?
Put it on the path to that?

Or is the UK's exit the ultimate aim no matter what the election results?

One of those has to be correct. It is a case of either you're in or you are out...correct?

BN747


The simple answer is "All of the above" are possible outcomes depending on the exact party breakdown of the new Parliament. :crazy:

The distinctly possible nightmare scenario is that we end up with another Tory minority Government. :banghead:

Reinhardt wrote:
From my side, the area that I can vote in has had an ERG member Tory MP for decades. There no way I will ever vote Conservative again, and Labour are going too far to the left for me. So I need a centralist party. Only people who come close are the Lib Dems. I'll probably vote for them, in the hope they go into coaliation with Labour (so far they have said they won't) and dampen down some of the more crazy plans. The fact they would stop Brexit is also a major plus point. The general quality of parties around right now is pretty appaling though.


I think there will be a lot of tactical voting in this election. I would happily vote Lib Dem, but my constituency is a close Tory/Labour seat with the Lib Dems a very distant third. If I want to try and unseat the sitting Tory MP (well, she's actually not standing, but...) I would have to vote Labour which is not particularly appealing to me personally.

I could easily see the next Government being a Labour/Lib Dem/SNP style coalition. As much as they all say they won't go into coalition, things tend to change once there's a sniff of power in the air. As much as I would hope any partners of Labour would help to moderate Labour's more extreme policies, both the Lib Dems and SNP will have a price for their cooperation.


Both you and Reinhardt, thank you both for such detailed insight into this dilemma, I must confess being an American, the political histories of the various parties are unknown to me, their relationships among each other and among the public leaves me ill-informed to begin to hold any kind of sound opinion on Brexit. But from over here it does seem that this is a ploy of some type to serve some hidden agenda.

My first take on Brexit upon hearing it when it came about was one of 'Oh, it's just like Thatcher trashing British Airways World Tails campaign and draping a cloth over a model tail - She's just making a statement of 'Let's Keep Things British' attitude was my viewpoint then.
Thinking to myself, oh..it's the same thing again, they want to simply 'Keep Things British', end of story.

But then all the brouhaha throughout the interim period where all the vagaries, quirks and unforeseen concerns emerged...as if none of this was every considered in the first place!

But, I can't really say much about the matter as it seems just have no end in sight.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Arion640
Posts: 2495
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:51 pm

scbriml wrote:
I've started this thread for discussion of all topics relating to the UK General Election 2019.

The aim is to keep all election related discussion here rather than in the Brexit thread. I appreciate that there will inevitably be overlap between the two since the election is in danger of being a 'single issue' election. Hopefully we can keep the election specific stuff here.

So, day one of the election and the Tories are off to a flier:

- Rees-Mogg manages to insult the victims and survivors of the Grenfell Tower disaster before issuing a "sorry, not sorry" politicians' apology.

- Andrew Bridgen then has to apologise for supporting Rees-Mogg on the issue.

- Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns quits over a scandal about a former aide who sabotaged a rape trial.

Only another five weeks to go! :shock:


Mr Cairns causing controversy in my home country.

Believe it or not, i went to the same wedding as him a few years ago.
No bumps. No bangs - Concorde
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 6748
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:56 pm

I am always amazed that party leaders, at election time, promise greater spending on x y z, and think that we will not see through this rubbish.
"The cheque is in the post."
"I will still respect you in the morning"
Guess they really do believe their own lies.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 9243
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:28 am

Reinhardt wrote:
[.
The only thing we have to go on is polls. Almost every poll taken from 2 months after the vote to today, show a remain bias above and beyond margin of error of the original vote. At this time it's around 55 remain vs 45 leave. What type of leave people wanted then or now, we have no idea. Brexiteers will argue that it's just a poll and that everyone wants the same brexit. There is no evidence to support this.

An election should never be a one subject matter vote which is why most of us remainers didn't want one before Brexit was sorted. But those who do want Brexit want an election to 'purge' the remainers from parliament.

Help me to understand some of the dynamics at play here....if the remain faction in the UK is now 55% - as per the polls - why would Labour fear an election on the basis that it would clear out the remainer's in parliament? It has been front and center that the only reason why no Brexit deal has been done is because the remain faction in parliament outnumbers the supporters of Brexit, so if the country is now at 55% it can mean that they support the actions of the members of parliament. In which case, there is no way to clear out the remain MP's, they should be the safest seats.

As for a one subject matter, for 40+ years the UK has been a member of the EU, if they go third country, all the services currently provided by the EU must now be done by the UK, is that impossible, no, countries much smaller than the UK with way less resources run their own countries every day. When we listen to the rhetoric coming out of the UK, you fear everything from having food on the table, medicines for the sick, a/c being able to fly to the continent, etc etc. now is some of that just project Fear or actual real fear? Leaving the EU is a massive deal, it was worthy of a referendum and it has caused 2 elections and a parliament for the last 2 years that have virtually ignored domestic policy, as you say it is huge.
Consider the general timeline given by EU experts, for 40+ years up to now the UK has been a member, it is already stated as a fact that if they leave, it will be years as in greater than 5 before a trade deal can be struck, this is for a country whose basic foundation is the EU, not a country like Canada for example who started from scratch.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 9243
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:31 am

readytotaxi wrote:
I am always amazed that party leaders, at election time, promise greater spending on x y z, and think that we will not see through this rubbish.
"The cheque is in the post."
"I will still respect you in the morning"
Guess they really do believe their own lies.

The line is fool me once shame on you, fool me twice......
Politicians in all countries do this, so obviously it works, they get elected and third parties never see the light of day...so gluttons for punishment?
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 17785
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:48 am

Time for some Labour turmoil.

Tom Watson quits the party and will not stand at the next election. I fear Labour is moving further in the Corbyn/McDonnell direction with more and more moderate MPs leaving. At one point I felt a more sensible Labour party was starting to emerge with the likes of Watson, Umunna and Starmer in high-profile positions. Sadly, they're being pushed out by the more extreme elements within Labour.

Tough decisions ahead. :scratchchin:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 12005
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:12 am

It's called a general election but in many ways it's 650 something local elections, each one can be very close, so predictions are hard to make, especially with Brexit as a major issue, and the Brexit party in the mix.

readytotaxi : well I would trust Labour to spend more than the Tories, wouldn't you ? That is until it all goes wrong of course, but at first I would expect a huge spending bill, some nationalizations, etc.

From videos I'm watching on youtube it seems the Tories have no problem lying about spending that never happens, or is counted 2 or 3 times, or the spending is done but the entity getting the money isn't allowed to spend it, or it gets money taken elsewhere, and now has to do the work that elsewhere was doing before...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:26 am

par13del wrote:
Help me to understand some of the dynamics at play here....if the remain faction in the UK is now 55% - as per the polls - why would Labour fear an election on the basis that it would clear out the remainer's in parliament? It has been front and center that the only reason why no Brexit deal has been done is because the remain faction in parliament outnumbers the supporters of Brexit, so if the country is now at 55% it can mean that they support the actions of the members of parliament. In which case, there is no way to clear out the remain MP's, they should be the safest seats.


Labour deep down have feared an election because all the polls on an election show Labour probably won't win a majority, and if the Conservatives were to get a minority govt or majority then hard brexit is back on the table. They sensibly want to avoid no brexit. But also remeber Corbyn's priorities are not about Brexit, he wants to leave with his deal. He genuinely wants to sort out all of the other issues the UK has. I just don't agree with many ways he wants to do things.

Remember, there hasn't been a majority in parliament to remain (despite what Brexiteers say). There has been a small majority for a deal that isn't no deal and isn't a crappy May or Boris deal. They voted to invoke article 50. A lot of Tory MPs who didnt' vote for May's deal voted for the Boris deal but also voted against no deal.

Remain is getting bigger that's for sure and the more the govenment have screwed up Brexit the bigger this has become. But really, it isn't that remain is getting bigger, it's that MPs are seeing the way public opinion is turning and think we should have a say in the options, now we know what they are. Labours offer for a public vote once they have negotiated 'a deal' is the only realistic option. Lib Dems + SNP don't have the numbers of support to withdraw article 50. I wish they did.

Also note that 55% support for remain amoungst public opinion doesn't automatically translate to a majority of MPs being returned who are pro remain.

par13del wrote:
As for a one subject matter, for 40+ years the UK has been a member of the EU, if they go third country, all the services currently provided by the EU must now be done by the UK, is that impossible, no, countries much smaller than the UK with way less resources run their own countries every day. When we listen to the rhetoric coming out of the UK, you fear everything from having food on the table, medicines for the sick, a/c being able to fly to the continent, etc etc. now is some of that just project Fear or actual real fear? Leaving the EU is a massive deal, it was worthy of a referendum and it has caused 2 elections and a parliament for the last 2 years that have virtually ignored domestic policy, as you say it is huge..


This is true, smaller countries do indeed run all of their own affairs. But none of those have been part of a bigger union for 40 years. There is every chance the UK can indeed get everything set back up, but how long will that take? What will the damage be to the economy in the mean time? Do you really trust a Conservative govenment that has botched every aspect of Brexit, even the basics, be able to set this all up? Half of them don't know what No deal actually means, didn't know Calais > Folkstone was the cornerstone of UK goods entry and exit, half don't care and spout nonsense about will of the people, and the rest are still under investigation by the Police and CPS over the illegal overspend during the referendum.

Some of the things you mention e.g flying out of the UK has a basis in fact - i.e that a new arrangement will have to be negotiated. If it isn't then of course there is an impact and that impact is no flights until it's resolved. Is it likely this will happen - no, not in my opinion. But as I say i have little faith in this govenment. Food? That's actually a genuine real problem - The UK is not self sufficient, hasn't been since WW2 and will never be able to be. Supermarkets import a huge amount of food and rely on fast import of goods and low costs associated with transport, customs etc.

par13del wrote:
Consider the general timeline given by EU experts, for 40+ years up to now the UK has been a member, it is already stated as a fact that if they leave, it will be years as in greater than 5 before a trade deal can be struck, this is for a country whose basic foundation is the EU, not a country like Canada for example who started from scratch.


Yes exactly. So what happens in the mean time. So far we've only been discussing the first stage of exiting, not the Future Partnership at all. That's the thing that will take years. That's why "letsgetbrexitdone" is bollox.
My biggest problem with Brexit is that the reasons given for leaving, the majority of those, are not the fault of the EU. They are fault of sucessive UK govenments and this Tory govenment has used those fears, and sucessfully blamed the EU for it. Those 'faults' people blame the EU for are mis-understandings about process, about how the EU works.

Perhaps if a new non Tory govenment gets into power, the first thing they can do is ensure our kids get taught about money, international trade, how the EU works etc. I got taught none of these things, and it's why we're in the mess we're in. Complete lack of critical thinking and knowledge on complex subjects.

Lastly, don't have referendums.
Last edited by Reinhardt on Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12380
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:27 am

If I could vote in UK elections in the past I would have voted Tory, but Boris is an odious individual so I couldn't bring myself to vote for him, I would struggle to vote Labour as well, Corben is borderline communist in his outlook so that rule them out, and Lib Dems would be a wasted vote under the UK's FPP electoral system. Which bring me to my next point, FPP is an old outdated and thoroughly undemocratic system, it should have been replaced with MPP or a variation of it decades ago.
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 3952
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:20 pm

I'm hoping for a good showing for the SNP. Sick of Scotland being dragged down by the rest of the union. Ridiculous for the SNP to not be included in the debates when they're the UK's third largest party. The fact that so many people are ok with this shows how blinded by bias so many South of the border are.

In my mind at least, the SNP is the only logical choice.

The Tories are a complete $#&Tshow - the only reason the UK is going through this Brexit mess is due to David Cameron trying to solve divisions within the party by calling the referendum. Even if they hadn't done that, their gutting of the NHS and subsequent privatisation is sickening.

Labour have had an open goal for the best part of four years but their ineffective leadership has failed to score even once and has not landed any punches.

The LibDems are nothing more than 'Tory-Lite'. Aside from the Brexit stuff, their agenda is the same Tory bs (less worker rights, cutting education funding, did nothing to stop the cutting of police funding or to stop the privatization of the NHS).

scbriml wrote:
So, day one of the election and the Tories are off to a flier:

- Rees-Mogg manages to insult the victims and survivors of the Grenfell Tower disaster before issuing a "sorry, not sorry" politicians' apology.

- Andrew Bridgen then has to apologise for supporting Rees-Mogg on the issue.

- Welsh Secretary Alun Cairns quits over a scandal about a former aide who sabotaged a rape trial.

Only another five weeks to go! :shock:

You forgot to mention:

- The Tories doctoring a video of Kier Starmer completely to maki it seem like he was clueless on Brexit.

- James Cleverly subsequently making a complete mockery of himself on the breakfast shows when trying to defend said video.

- The revelation about millions of pounds flowing into Tory Party coffers from Russian Oligarchs.

- The Telegraph front page.

- Preventing the report into foreign support for Leave in the EU referendum from being published.


Simply amazing...yet not a surprise. When you've kicked out the entire moderate wing of the party, of course you're going to get a clown show.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-m ... y-funding/
First to fly the 787-9
 
apodino
Posts: 3598
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:23 pm

I am not as familiar with UK politics as those on this side of the pond but I do regularly read up on the happenings. To me, I think Brexit would have already happened if Boris Johnson had become Prime Minister after Cameron resigned. Theresa May bungled every aspect of Brexit, starting with the Election, and then everything else that happened. It put Boris Johnson in a no win situation when he eventually became PM. He would have been much stronger earlier than when he became PM. Now you have a snap election, and while Brexit is one of the driving issues, there are other issues that complicate this election.

1. Some Tories standing are pro-Brexit and some are remainers. I don't know if the Brexit party has candidates in these elections or not, but if a Brexit candidate pulls enough support from the Tories in these races, it could open the door for a Labor or Lib Dem victory. (In individual races, not for a majority of parliament, which would still be likely to be Labour or Conservative with the most seats)

2. While Sinn Fein does not typically take their seats in parliament, the customs wall issue in a Brexit makes it absolutely vital that they win enough seats to make it more difficult for Johnson to form a minority government if Tory does not gain a majority.

3. One thing that many Brits fear more than Brexit is the thought of a PM Corbyn. Look for the Liberal Democrat party to rebound after a shellacking last election as they can attract voters who want to Remain but don't want Corbyn to be PM.

4. I would not expect many remainers in the conservative party to challenge current Labour MPs.

5. Depending on how many seats both the SNP and the Lib Democrats win, there is still the possibility that in the case of no majority, neither the Tories or Labour will be able to form a government. Of course if the Brexit party does win seats, they would be a natural ally of the Tories. I don't know if anyone would want to ally with Corbyn.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 843
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:29 am

apodino wrote:
1. Some Tories standing are pro-Brexit and some are remainers. I don't know if the Brexit party has candidates in these elections or not, but if a Brexit candidate pulls enough support from the Tories in these races, it could open the door for a Labor or Lib Dem victory. (In individual races, not for a majority of parliament, which would still be likely to be Labour or Conservative with the most seats)


Farage has said that the Brexit company will have candidates in all constituencies except those won by the Tories in the last election.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 17785
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:51 am

The Johnson vs Corbyn debate was quite interesting and IMHO, well moderated.

Interesting that the audience laughed in derision at both candidates at different points during the debate. I felt that Johnson came out of it slightly better, but mainly because Corbyn still refuses to answer the most basic Brexit question - how will he campaign in the event of a Labour referendum on leave with a deal vs remain.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:34 am

scbriml wrote:
The Johnson vs Corbyn debate was quite interesting and IMHO, well moderated.

Interesting that the audience laughed in derision at both candidates at different points during the debate. I felt that Johnson came out of it slightly better, but mainly because Corbyn still refuses to answer the most basic Brexit question - how will he campaign in the event of a Labour referendum on leave with a deal vs remain.


I actually thought it was awful. I turned off after 20mins as I couldn't cringe any harder.

I thought it was poorly moderated. Ignoring the fact Boris was doing his usual just giving pre written soundbites and not actually answering questions, there wasn't enough time given to them to answer questions. She was interupting after about 30 seconds.

The initial statements were about 1 minute long, if that.

For me I don't care how Corbyn will campaign in a referendum. The fact Labour are offering one is more important to me. With Boris it's hard brexit or his crappy deal. The fact he has no clue whatsoever or is simply lying about how long it will take to negotiate any trade details also annoys me.

Neither of them are capable of properly debating. At least with Cameron, even Ed, Major, infact almost all leaders of the last few decades were and still are today completely capable of holding a complex conversation without just stating pre-prepared 1 sentance soundbites. Neither of these two can. They are complete litterate lightweights by comparison.

Boris comes off as an idiot, with no knowledge of the real world. He's fake and his past shows he cannot make sound judgements. Corbyn looks and sounds like what he has been, a backbencher his entire political career with no leadership or gravitas. He fumbles over statements, starts talking loudly for no reason, retreats and sounds too quiet when he shouldn't be.

I don't want either of them leading the country, neither are anywhere near good enough and I object to a lot of proposals from both sides. But when push comes to shove the Tories are the ones who have been in power the last decade. They are the ones to blame for the state of the country and Brexit. So right now, I don't care who gets into power so long as it isn't the Conservatives. I'll take Labour or a coalition of some sorts to get Brexit stopped or sensibly done then hopefully someone new will come to the fray and sort the current state out.
 
Bongodog49
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:41 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
scbriml wrote:
The Johnson vs Corbyn debate was quite interesting and IMHO, well moderated.

Interesting that the audience laughed in derision at both candidates at different points during the debate. I felt that Johnson came out of it slightly better, but mainly because Corbyn still refuses to answer the most basic Brexit question - how will he campaign in the event of a Labour referendum on leave with a deal vs remain.


I actually thought it was awful. I turned off after 20mins as I couldn't cringe any harder.

I thought it was poorly moderated. Ignoring the fact Boris was doing his usual just giving pre written soundbites and not actually answering questions, there wasn't enough time given to them to answer questions. She was interupting after about 30 seconds.

The initial statements were about 1 minute long, if that.

For me I don't care how Corbyn will campaign in a referendum. The fact Labour are offering one is more important to me. With Boris it's hard brexit or his crappy deal. The fact he has no clue whatsoever or is simply lying about how long it will take to negotiate any trade details also annoys me.

Neither of them are capable of properly debating. At least with Cameron, even Ed, Major, infact almost all leaders of the last few decades were and still are today completely capable of holding a complex conversation without just stating pre-prepared 1 sentance soundbites. Neither of these two can. They are complete litterate lightweights by comparison.

Boris comes off as an idiot, with no knowledge of the real world. He's fake and his past shows he cannot make sound judgements. Corbyn looks and sounds like what he has been, a backbencher his entire political career with no leadership or gravitas. He fumbles over statements, starts talking loudly for no reason, retreats and sounds too quiet when he shouldn't be.

I don't want either of them leading the country, neither are anywhere near good enough and I object to a lot of proposals from both sides. But when push comes to shove the Tories are the ones who have been in power the last decade. They are the ones to blame for the state of the country and Brexit. So right now, I don't care who gets into power so long as it isn't the Conservatives. I'll take Labour or a coalition of some sorts to get Brexit stopped or sensibly done then hopefully someone new will come to the fray and sort the current state out.


The fact hwoever is that the Tories haven't been in power for the last decade, 2010 = 2015 was a Lib Dem Tory coalition, one in which David Cameron gave way on many Tory policies in order to get the Lib Dems on board. There was also the huge and growing deficit to tackle, under Gordon Brown we had been spending on the basis that he had in his own words "fixed boom and bust". He hadn't and when bust came along we had the brtual choice, cut spending or wathc the International lenders take us to the cleaners.
As to brexit, many of the most vociferous opponents fail to appreciate that whilst they have enjoyed the ability to work and reside anywhere in the EU, and the benefit of low paid immigrants working in the service econom. Many people would never have the opportunity to take advantage of these, and have seen their earning capacity squeezed by the Eastern European plumbers etc.

The biggest danger I see with this election is that some people may believe the Lib Dems. They are a party that only works as an underdog, safely knowing that they can promise the earth in the sure knowledge that they will never be in a position to have to implement their pledges. Last year they took control of our local council, their campaign was 95% based on issues that were not even the council's responsibility. having acheived power they have installed a huge pyramid of committees the result of which is that few decisions are ever made and of those few even less are ratified by full council. The finances have rapidly swung from in the black to a multi million pound defecit.
 
User avatar
Dano1977
Posts: 712
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:49 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:08 pm

The TV debate...

Knowing Boris takes his time to get into his stride where the answers timed to cut him of jast as he's about to make his point, and Corbyn was his usual heavily scripted montone

I had it at as a draw of 0-0

I shall be voting Conservative in this General Election. Our local MP has done alot for his local constituents, and Labour candidate comes over as a bit of a plonker. I can not bring myself to vote for the Lib Dems being run by that awful woman Jo Swinson. A vote to the minor parties such as Brexit or Greens would probably be a waste and lead to the Labour candidate winning.

So all in all.

Unite behind the Conservatives & Boris.

Voting for The Brexit Party and splitting the vote is essentially handing over power to Jeremy Corbyn, Nicola Sturgeon and Jo Swinson.

Back Boris & Vote Conservative
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:05 pm

Bloomberg had an op-ed yesterday that the UK is in big danger of splitting up - Scotland, NI, and possibly Wales. At that point what is left? The de-industrialized north, and then prosperous London. How will they manage to stay together?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 4:46 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
The fact hwoever is that the Tories haven't been in power for the last decade, 2010 = 2015 was a Lib Dem Tory coalition, one in which David Cameron gave way on many Tory policies in order to get the Lib Dems on board. There was also the huge and growing deficit to tackle, under Gordon Brown we had been spending on the basis that he had in his own words "fixed boom and bust". He hadn't and when bust came along we had the brtual choice, cut spending or wathc the International lenders take us to the cleaners.


I think everyone agreed that a reduction in spending was of course required. What wasn't nessesary was how hard it went, how badly it affected vast swathes of the population, what type of income level person was affected most, and how long it went on for. It changed from satisfying creditors and reducing spending to an ideological Tory plan. The last govenment continued this, despite there being no need to do so.

This doesn't even begin to cover things like Windrush, NHS discrace, HS2, 20,000 less police, and a clusterduck that is Brexit.

Bongodog49 wrote:
As to brexit, many of the most vociferous opponents fail to appreciate that whilst they have enjoyed the ability to work and reside anywhere in the EU, and the benefit of low paid immigrants working in the service econom. Many people would never have the opportunity to take advantage of these, and have seen their earning capacity squeezed by the Eastern European plumbers etc.


Bad example there. Plumbers have seen their pay rise massively, along with builders over the last 6-10 years due to shortages.
UK workers don't want to do most of the UK lower paid service jobs. If they did, there wouldn't have been the huge amount of vacanies filled by immigrants. Look at farm workers. Now EU immigration has fallen, farmers are massively struggling to employee local workers. NHS has tens of thousands of unfilled vacancies.

EU immigrants pay vastly more tax than they ever take out in Healthcare costs, and in are paid much higher than average workers. Don't forget there are large numbers of EU engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Bankers etc

The UK was doing fine with the level of immigration. The problem was not investing in infrastructure (irrespective of a increase in immigration), health, schools etc. They could have always, heaven forbid raised taxes. UK tax is amoungst the lowest (both personal and company) in Europe. You could even have then reduced business rates to try and reinvigerate the high street.

Brexit doesn't stop immigration. It'll just come from outside of the EU instead, because the UK needs it.

Bongodog49 wrote:
The biggest danger I see with this election is that some people may believe the Lib Dems. They are a party that only works as an underdog, safely knowing that they can promise the earth in the sure knowledge that they will never be in a position to have to implement their pledges. Last year they took control of our local council, their campaign was 95% based on issues that were not even the council's responsibility. having acheived power they have installed a huge pyramid of committees the result of which is that few decisions are ever made and of those few even less are ratified by full council. The finances have rapidly swung from in the black to a multi million pound defecit.


The Lib Dems whilst in coalition tempered a lot of the much harder Tory plans. Of course if they don't win a general election they don't get to implement their manifesto.
Tories right now are promising the earth (so are Labour).

The quality of local councils varies massively and is often not representative of the party as a whole. My local MP and council, when I lived in the UK was Lib Dem. It was very well run. Local MP was easily accesible and genuinely cared. He is from the area and not jetted in. He has a massive majority over the Conservatives. The next council over is Tory run and is a complete mess. So as I say it varies a lot.
 
Bongodog49
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:35 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:10 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Bongodog49 wrote:
The fact hwoever is that the Tories haven't been in power for the last decade, 2010 = 2015 was a Lib Dem Tory coalition, one in which David Cameron gave way on many Tory policies in order to get the Lib Dems on board. There was also the huge and growing deficit to tackle, under Gordon Brown we had been spending on the basis that he had in his own words "fixed boom and bust". He hadn't and when bust came along we had the brtual choice, cut spending or wathc the International lenders take us to the cleaners.


I think everyone agreed that a reduction in spending was of course required. What wasn't nessesary was how hard it went, how badly it affected vast swathes of the population, what type of income level person was affected most, and how long it went on for. It changed from satisfying creditors and reducing spending to an ideological Tory plan. The last govenment continued this, despite there being no need to do so.

This doesn't even begin to cover things like Windrush, NHS discrace, HS2, 20,000 less police, and a clusterduck that is Brexit.

Bongodog49 wrote:
As to brexit, many of the most vociferous opponents fail to appreciate that whilst they have enjoyed the ability to work and reside anywhere in the EU, and the benefit of low paid immigrants working in the service econom. Many people would never have the opportunity to take advantage of these, and have seen their earning capacity squeezed by the Eastern European plumbers etc.



Bad example there. Plumbers have seen their pay rise massively, along with builders over the last 6-10 years due to shortages.
UK workers don't want to do most of the UK lower paid service jobs. If they did, there wouldn't have been the huge amount of vacanies filled by immigrants. Look at farm workers. Now EU immigration has fallen, farmers are massively struggling to employee local workers. NHS has tens of thousands of unfilled vacancies.

EU immigrants pay vastly more tax than they ever take out in Healthcare costs, and in are paid much higher than average workers. Don't forget there are large numbers of EU engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Bankers etc

The UK was doing fine with the level of immigration. The problem was not investing in infrastructure (irrespective of a increase in immigration), health, schools etc. They could have always, heaven forbid raised taxes. UK tax is amoungst the lowest (both personal and company) in Europe. You could even have then reduced business rates to try and reinvigerate the high street.

Brexit doesn't stop immigration. It'll just come from outside of the EU instead, because the UK needs it.

Bongodog49 wrote:
The biggest danger I see with this election is that some people may believe the Lib Dems. They are a party that only works as an underdog, safely knowing that they can promise the earth in the sure knowledge that they will never be in a position to have to implement their pledges. Last year they took control of our local council, their campaign was 95% based on issues that were not even the council's responsibility. having acheived power they have installed a huge pyramid of committees the result of which is that few decisions are ever made and of those few even less are ratified by full council. The finances have rapidly swung from in the black to a multi million pound defecit.


The Lib Dems whilst in coalition tempered a lot of the much harder Tory plans. Of course if they don't win a general election they don't get to implement their manifesto.
Tories right now are promising the earth (so are Labour).

The quality of local councils varies massively and is often not representative of the party as a whole. My local MP and council, when I lived in the UK was Lib Dem. It was very well run. Local MP was easily accesible and genuinely cared. He is from the area and not jetted in. He has a massive majority over the Conservatives. The next council over is Tory run and is a complete mess. So as I say it varies a lot.


In your own words "when I lived in the UK" as you no longer live in the UK it seems to me that your opinions might not tally with much of the population. I wouldn't presume to know exactly how things stand in a country I don't reside in.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 843
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:12 pm

scbriml wrote:
I felt that Johnson came out of it slightly better, but mainly because Corbyn still refuses to answer the most basic Brexit question - how will he campaign in the event of a Labour referendum on leave with a deal vs remain.


As an outside observer I have to admit it is interesting to follow this election. But, I'm struggling to understand Labour's position on EU membership. Are they going for the votes of people who think that Brexit is not that important?

Is it really just renegogiate and then a referendum. Have they said anything on how they will renegogiate?
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:48 pm

Bongodog49 wrote:
In your own words "when I lived in the UK" as you no longer live in the UK it seems to me that your opinions might not tally with much of the population. I wouldn't presume to know exactly how things stand in a country I don't reside in.


Well luckily for me I have more experience with UK law, trade than the majority of the population and I'm able to read and understand EU leglislation. I'm also able to read reports (often govenment produced) and data which backs up every viewpoint I hold.

I also happen to be in the UK rather a lot, despite not living there.

I lived in the UK for 35 years, throughout the 80s,90s,2000s, early 20** 's and had to leave because of Brexit. I've seen the changes in the country, and it's clear who is responsible for it's problems and what problems do or do not exist.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 12005
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:04 pm

Bostrom wrote:
scbriml wrote:
I felt that Johnson came out of it slightly better, but mainly because Corbyn still refuses to answer the most basic Brexit question - how will he campaign in the event of a Labour referendum on leave with a deal vs remain.


As an outside observer I have to admit it is interesting to follow this election. But, I'm struggling to understand Labour's position on EU membership. Are they going for the votes of people who think that Brexit is not that important?

Is it really just renegogiate and then a referendum. Have they said anything on how they will renegogiate?


Basically they want Brexit in name only, or another kind of unicorn : all the benefits, none of the drawbacks. In the end the only thing I can see them getting is the same deal as Norway, with maybe a customs union on top. For a lot of money.

In the end they would very probably campaign to remain in the EU, because that Brexit doesn't make any sense (not that any Brexit makes much sense).

They want labour voters, tired of tory policies. The problem is that a significant number of those voted for Brexit, so they can't be the party of remain, that wouldn't work.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 17785
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:06 pm

Aesma wrote:
They want labour voters, tired of tory policies. The problem is that a significant number of those voted for Brexit, so they can't be the party of remain, that wouldn't work.


It's just another example of Corbyn trying to be all things to all people at the same time. It's the ultimate cop-out. That he won't say which way he personally will go, is hilariously pathetic.

PS Corbyn has now said he would stay neutral in the event of a Labour second referendum so that he could "credibly" carry out the wishes of the result. :scratchchin:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Arion640
Posts: 2495
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:56 pm

Jo Swinson actually makes me cringe. Still better than Jezza the terrorist though.
No bumps. No bangs - Concorde
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 17785
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:13 am

Arion640 wrote:
Jo Swinson actually makes me cringe. Still better than Jezza the terrorist though.


And Johnson the liar.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Arion640
Posts: 2495
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:24 pm

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Jo Swinson actually makes me cringe. Still better than Jezza the terrorist though.


And Johnson the liar.


They are all liars.
No bumps. No bangs - Concorde
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14417
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:41 pm

There is a saying in the USA that 'all politics are local', that local issues are what drive voters in their choices between candidates and parties and in turn national politics.

With Brexit, we saw how the people perceived and were affected by the EC, especially as it expanded to the South and East in the 1990's to the 2000-teens. In England, the once mighty industrial midlands is pretty much gone, replaced in part by goods from EU countries, many jobs taken by migrants from newer EU countries like Poland or illegals from non-EU countries for the lowest jobs that tipped the balance in favor of Brexit. Other parts like Scotland have stronger and more positive connections and trade with the EU, so supported it. Many in the London region were supportive as much of the financial and insurance business was tied to the EC.

It will be interesting to see how 'local' politics and Brexit, from jobs going out, limiting EU citizens from working in the UK, to the UK's economy short to medium term, if enough funding for NHS and other spending. It will also be interesting how non-UK groups and nations (including Russia) will try to affect the elections.
One thing some Americans would love is how UK elections process only take 2 months, not like over 2 years in the USA.
 
seat64k
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:48 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:01 am

 
Arion640
Posts: 2495
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:40 pm

ltbewr wrote:
There is a saying in the USA that 'all politics are local', that local issues are what drive voters in their choices between candidates and parties and in turn national politics.

With Brexit, we saw how the people perceived and were affected by the EC, especially as it expanded to the South and East in the 1990's to the 2000-teens. In England, the once mighty industrial midlands is pretty much gone, replaced in part by goods from EU countries, many jobs taken by migrants from newer EU countries like Poland or illegals from non-EU countries for the lowest jobs that tipped the balance in favor of Brexit. Other parts like Scotland have stronger and more positive connections and trade with the EU, so supported it. Many in the London region were supportive as much of the financial and insurance business was tied to the EC.

It will be interesting to see how 'local' politics and Brexit, from jobs going out, limiting EU citizens from working in the UK, to the UK's economy short to medium term, if enough funding for NHS and other spending. It will also be interesting how non-UK groups and nations (including Russia) will try to affect the elections.
One thing some Americans would love is how UK elections process only take 2 months, not like over 2 years in the USA.


I’ve never understood how you can drag your election process out that long, it’s very entertaining though.
No bumps. No bangs - Concorde
 
steveinbc
Posts: 281
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:30 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:59 pm

seat64k wrote:

Thanks for the laugh!!
A319 320 321 330 340 380 B707 727 737 747 757 767 777 787 BAe1-11 Trident 1, 2, 3B Viscount Lancaster VC10 HS748, ATP DHC-1, 3 Dash-8 Dash-400 Shorts 330 360 Embraer Banderiante Brasileria 175 190 BAe146 Saab 200 DC-3 -8 -9 -10 MD-11 ATR42-72
 
Jetty
Posts: 1044
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:01 pm

Great plans by BoJo, he wants to make the country carbon neutral by 2050 and Corbyn neutral by Christmas! www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-772014 ... festo.html

Image
 
User avatar
scbriml
Topic Author
Posts: 17785
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:21 pm

Jetty wrote:
Great plans by BoJo


Image
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 843
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:00 pm

Aesma wrote:
Basically they want Brexit in name only, or another kind of unicorn : all the benefits, none of the drawbacks. In the end the only thing I can see them getting is the same deal as Norway, with maybe a customs union on top. For a lot of money.

In the end they would very probably campaign to remain in the EU, because that Brexit doesn't make any sense (not that any Brexit makes much sense).

They want labour voters, tired of tory policies. The problem is that a significant number of those voted for Brexit, so they can't be the party of remain, that wouldn't work.


Thank you! So in essence give up May's red lines and negogiate a deal that is as soft as possible? Looks like they are trying to avoid keep leave voters from voting Brexit Party while at the same time trying to keep remain supporters from voting Remain alliance.
 
Boeing74741R
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:44 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:26 pm

scbriml wrote:
Aesma wrote:
They want labour voters, tired of tory policies. The problem is that a significant number of those voted for Brexit, so they can't be the party of remain, that wouldn't work.


It's just another example of Corbyn trying to be all things to all people at the same time. It's the ultimate cop-out. That he won't say which way he personally will go, is hilariously pathetic.

PS Corbyn has now said he would stay neutral in the event of a Labour second referendum so that he could "credibly" carry out the wishes of the result. :scratchchin:


A good leader would take a particular viewpoint, stick to it and campaign for it. Staying neutral is just fence sitting and could still bite him on the backside. It worked in 2017 when he got away with saying as little as possible and enough comfort words to appeal to both remainers and leavers, but when you have the Tories saying they will leave using Boris' new deal, the Lib Dems saying they will unilaterally revoke Article 50 and parties such as the SNP and Greens saying they would have a second referendum and their stance on the subject is clear (remain), a clear position also needs to be adopted by the leader. If you say you're going to negotiate a new deal, at least do what Boris has done and stick by that deal.
 
Arion640
Posts: 2495
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:39 pm

Corbyn/Labour rightly called out this evening on anti semitism by chief Rabbi.
No bumps. No bangs - Concorde
 
bennett123
Posts: 9022
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: UK General Election 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:57 am

Reminded of the chorus of a song by the Stealers.

‘Clowns to the Left of me, Jokers to the Right, stuck in the middle’.

I have no idea how to vote.
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1780
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: UK General Election 2019

Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:45 am

Arion640 wrote:
Corbyn/Labour rightly called out this evening on anti semitism by chief Rabbi.


You mean the decidedly pro Tory rabbi has once again trotted out the tired and unsubstantiated rumour as part of an obviously coordinated smear campaign (yesterday it was Maureen Lipman) on the day Labour launches its faith and race manifesto...

As I've said before I'm not a Labour supporter but this anti semitism thing is so obviously propagandist and always has been. That versus the proven racism and anti muslim words and actions of not only a large part of the members but also the leadership of the Tory party.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cerecl, Kiwirob and 88 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos