par13del wrote:Help me to understand some of the dynamics at play here....if the remain faction in the UK is now 55% - as per the polls - why would Labour fear an election on the basis that it would clear out the remainer's in parliament? It has been front and center that the only reason why no Brexit deal has been done is because the remain faction in parliament outnumbers the supporters of Brexit, so if the country is now at 55% it can mean that they support the actions of the members of parliament. In which case, there is no way to clear out the remain MP's, they should be the safest seats.
Labour deep down have feared an election because all the polls on an election show Labour probably won't win a majority, and if the Conservatives were to get a minority govt or majority then hard brexit is back on the table. They sensibly want to avoid no brexit. But also remeber Corbyn's priorities are not about Brexit, he wants to leave with his deal. He genuinely wants to sort out all of the other issues the UK has. I just don't agree with many ways he wants to do things.
Remember, there hasn't been a majority in parliament to remain (despite what Brexiteers say). There has been a small majority for a deal that isn't no deal and isn't a crappy May or Boris deal. They voted to invoke article 50. A lot of Tory MPs who didnt' vote for May's deal voted for the Boris deal but also voted against no deal.
Remain is getting bigger that's for sure and the more the govenment have screwed up Brexit the bigger this has become. But really, it isn't that remain is getting bigger, it's that MPs are seeing the way public opinion is turning and think we should have a say in the options, now we know what they are. Labours offer for a public vote once they have negotiated 'a deal' is the only realistic option. Lib Dems + SNP don't have the numbers of support to withdraw article 50. I wish they did.
Also note that 55% support for remain amoungst public opinion doesn't automatically translate to a majority of MPs being returned who are pro remain.
par13del wrote:As for a one subject matter, for 40+ years the UK has been a member of the EU, if they go third country, all the services currently provided by the EU must now be done by the UK, is that impossible, no, countries much smaller than the UK with way less resources run their own countries every day. When we listen to the rhetoric coming out of the UK, you fear everything from having food on the table, medicines for the sick, a/c being able to fly to the continent, etc etc. now is some of that just project Fear or actual real fear? Leaving the EU is a massive deal, it was worthy of a referendum and it has caused 2 elections and a parliament for the last 2 years that have virtually ignored domestic policy, as you say it is huge..
This is true, smaller countries do indeed run all of their own affairs. But none of those have been part of a bigger union for 40 years. There is every chance the UK can indeed get everything set back up, but how long will that take? What will the damage be to the economy in the mean time? Do you really trust a Conservative govenment that has botched every aspect of Brexit, even the basics, be able to set this all up? Half of them don't know what No deal actually means, didn't know Calais > Folkstone was the cornerstone of UK goods entry and exit, half don't care and spout nonsense about will of the people, and the rest are still under investigation by the Police and CPS over the illegal overspend during the referendum.
Some of the things you mention e.g flying out of the UK has a basis in fact - i.e that a new arrangement will have to be negotiated. If it isn't then of course there is an impact and that impact is no flights until it's resolved. Is it likely this will happen - no, not in my opinion. But as I say i have little faith in this govenment. Food? That's actually a genuine real problem - The UK is not self sufficient, hasn't been since WW2 and will never be able to be. Supermarkets import a huge amount of food and rely on fast import of goods and low costs associated with transport, customs etc.
par13del wrote:Consider the general timeline given by EU experts, for 40+ years up to now the UK has been a member, it is already stated as a fact that if they leave, it will be years as in greater than 5 before a trade deal can be struck, this is for a country whose basic foundation is the EU, not a country like Canada for example who started from scratch.
Yes exactly. So what happens in the mean time. So far we've only been discussing the first stage of exiting, not the Future Partnership at all. That's the thing that will take years. That's why "letsgetbrexitdone" is bollox.
My biggest problem with Brexit is that the reasons given for leaving, the majority of those, are not the fault of the EU. They are fault of sucessive UK govenments and this Tory govenment has used those fears, and sucessfully blamed the EU for it. Those 'faults' people blame the EU for are mis-understandings about process, about how the EU works.
Perhaps if a new non Tory govenment gets into power, the first thing they can do is ensure our kids get taught about money, international trade, how the EU works etc. I got taught none of these things, and it's why we're in the mess we're in. Complete lack of critical thinking and knowledge on complex subjects.
Lastly, don't have referendums.
Last edited by
Reinhardt on Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Noob! As if any of those questions can be answered "in simple terms"... 
