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Ken777
Topic Author
Posts: 9965
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:12 pm

The Trump Impeachment Hearings has now started and I believe that a new thread is needed to focus on this phase. With the first two witnesses ( George Kent and William Taylor) making their initial statements this Impeachment Committee is underway. Their testimony will be clearly demonstrating the "transparency" the GOP has been demanding. Ambassador Taylor has clearly put Trump's quid pro quo on the table. He also indicated that he was stunned when he learned that the defense funding was on hold until Trump was satisfied with at least the appearance of an investigation. Overall both gentlemen are being very detailed on their opening speeches and Ambassador Taylor made it clear Shat one Ukrainian was killed by the Russians about once a week, with others injured. Ambassador Tylor is delivering extensive evidence, including the statement that a trump was more interested in the Ukraine public announcement of an "investigation Into the Bidens" than the national security of the Ukraine itself.
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1680
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:15 pm

Ken777 wrote:
The Trump Impeachment Hearings has now started and I believe that a new thread is needed to focus on this phase. With the first two witnesses ( George Kent and William Taylor) making their initial statements this Impeachment Committee is underway. Their testimony will be clearly demonstrating the "transparency" the GOP has been demanding. Ambassador Taylor has clearly put Trump's quid pro quo on the table. He also indicated that he was stunned when he learned that the defense funding was on hold until Trump was satisfied with at least the appearance of an investigation. Overall both gentlemen are being very detailed on their opening speeches and Ambassador Taylor made it clear Shat one Ukrainian was killed by the Russians about once a week, with others injured. Ambassador Tylor is delivering extensive evidence, including the statement that a trump was more interested in the Ukraine public announcement of an "investigation Into the Bidens" than the national security of the Ukraine itself.


More waste of taxpayer money by the Democrats and it will go no where just like the Mueller probe. I find it interesting that so many politicians namely Pelosi, Biden, Romney and Kerry all have sons that are on the board of directors of energy companies all doing business in the Ukraine. But I am sure it's all a coincidence. But you liberals just keep digging that hole so deep you will never get out of it. It's gonna take a lot more than a Ukrainian Quid Pro Quo for me to change my vote and to be truthful I can't stand Trump.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 11372
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:20 pm

stratosphere wrote:
It's gonna take a lot more than a Ukrainian Quid Pro Quo for me to change my vote and to be truthful I can't stand Trump.


So... it is going to take a lot more than what is spelled out in the constitution to remove a president to keep you from putting him there? Cute.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
winginit
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:23 pm

stratosphere wrote:
It's gonna take a lot more than a Ukrainian Quid Pro Quo for me to change my vote and to be truthful I can't stand Trump.


Whether or not you're going to change your vote is entirely irrelevant - it doesn't matter. This is a constitutionally dictated political process where the only opinions that matter are those of the members of the House and Senate. You are in neither so your opinions or vote hold no weight.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:43 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The Trump Impeachment Hearings has now started and I believe that a new thread is needed to focus on this phase. With the first two witnesses ( George Kent and William Taylor) making their initial statements this Impeachment Committee is underway. Their testimony will be clearly demonstrating the "transparency" the GOP has been demanding. Ambassador Taylor has clearly put Trump's quid pro quo on the table. He also indicated that he was stunned when he learned that the defense funding was on hold until Trump was satisfied with at least the appearance of an investigation. Overall both gentlemen are being very detailed on their opening speeches and Ambassador Taylor made it clear Shat one Ukrainian was killed by the Russians about once a week, with others injured. Ambassador Tylor is delivering extensive evidence, including the statement that a trump was more interested in the Ukraine public announcement of an "investigation Into the Bidens" than the national security of the Ukraine itself.


More waste of taxpayer money by the Democrats and it will go no where just like the Mueller probe. I find it interesting that so many politicians namely Pelosi, Biden, Romney and Kerry all have sons that are on the board of directors of energy companies all doing business in the Ukraine. But I am sure it's all a coincidence. But you liberals just keep digging that hole so deep you will never get out of it. It's gonna take a lot more than a Ukrainian Quid Pro Quo for me to change my vote and to be truthful I can't stand Trump.



what is the name of Romney son, who you says sits on the board of directors in Ukraine energy company?
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:45 pm

fake news dude. he doesn't have a son who sits on the board. If you can't stand Trump, why do you listen to the fake
news that Trumpsters put out there.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAIOJyt
 
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seb146
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:07 pm

winginit wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
It's gonna take a lot more than a Ukrainian Quid Pro Quo for me to change my vote and to be truthful I can't stand Trump.


Whether or not you're going to change your vote is entirely irrelevant - it doesn't matter. This is a constitutionally dictated political process where the only opinions that matter are those of the members of the House and Senate. You are in neither so your opinions or vote hold no weight.


Let's also remember that a number of Republicans wanted to impeach and remove Obama for such things as transgender people using bathrooms they want to the lie he was born in Kenya to Benghazi to the debt ceiling. These were legitimate reasons Republicans had for removing a duly elected official. Now, all the cover ups and lies and name calling all lead back to one man in the White House.

If he were so innocent, why is he constantly screaming and whining and name calling and blocking? If he were so innocent, why not release the actual transcript of "the perfect call" and release his taxes and be transparent?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
727LOVER
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:36 pm

seb146 wrote:
Let's also remember that a number of Republicans wanted to impeach and remove Obama for such things as transgender people using bathrooms





Image
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 218
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:05 pm

727LOVER wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Let's also remember that a number of Republicans wanted to impeach and remove Obama for such things as transgender people using bathrooms





Image


Yes, the Republicans in OK voted on a bill to direct Congress to Impeach Obama over trans-bathrooms. How soon everyone forgets how often Republicans were screaming “impeachment”......here’s a brief list..... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts ... rack_Obama
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 218
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:15 pm

stratosphere wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The Trump Impeachment Hearings has now started and I believe that a new thread is needed to focus on this phase. With the first two witnesses ( George Kent and William Taylor) making their initial statements this Impeachment Committee is underway. Their testimony will be clearly demonstrating the "transparency" the GOP has been demanding. Ambassador Taylor has clearly put Trump's quid pro quo on the table. He also indicated that he was stunned when he learned that the defense funding was on hold until Trump was satisfied with at least the appearance of an investigation. Overall both gentlemen are being very detailed on their opening speeches and Ambassador Taylor made it clear Shat one Ukrainian was killed by the Russians about once a week, with others injured. Ambassador Tylor is delivering extensive evidence, including the statement that a trump was more interested in the Ukraine public announcement of an "investigation Into the Bidens" than the national security of the Ukraine itself.


More waste of taxpayer money by the Democrats and it will go no where just like the Mueller probe. I find it interesting that so many politicians namely Pelosi, Biden, Romney and Kerry all have sons that are on the board of directors of energy companies all doing business in the Ukraine. But I am sure it's all a coincidence. But you liberals just keep digging that hole so deep you will never get out of it. It's gonna take a lot more than a Ukrainian Quid Pro Quo for me to change my vote and to be truthful I can't stand Trump.


You willingly and knowingly will vote for a man who has committed bribery/extortion while in office, a crime specifically called out in the Constitution? If so, you lose any ability for the rest of your days to ever claim you love the Constitution or the USA. Someone needs to reread the Constitution especially Article II, Section IV.
 
Okie
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:25 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
You willingly and knowingly will vote for a man who has committed bribery/extortion while in office, a crime specifically called out in the Constitution?


I have no plans to vote for Quid Pro Joe do you?

********

I am going to question if Pelosi will pull the plug on Schiff before Fridays Humbug.

Okie
 
Ken777
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:53 pm

stratosphere wrote:

More waste of taxpayer money by the Democrats and it will go no where just like the Mueller probe..


Take a look at the costs of Trump's taking Air Force One for a weekend golf trip, or the hundred + million that was spent on 5 years of investigating Clinton. Trump's headed to his Impeachment in around 5 months as opposed to 5 years for Star's investigations. I can guess which is the greatest waste.

For me there was an important shift from using the "quid pro quo" to the English 'this for that", or, in terms of the Constitution, Bribery.

This was also the first time that the military and foreign security issues were at the core of the Committee's work.

Kellyann Conway (the President's Campaign Manager) had to be delighted to see her lawyer husband George on MSNBC

There have been comments that Ambassador William Taylor performed at the level people had hoped that Mueller would have performed in his public testimony.

GOP Rep Jim Jordan (the dude who can't be bothered to wear a suit coat to hearings) was moved to the Committee late last week because the is such a hard hitter protecting Trump. The day before the announcement there was a news story that a second ex-student who told Old Jim that the wrestling team Doc was sexually abusing the students. Old Job did a Joe Paterno, looking the other way and keeping his mouth shut. BTW, I call him Old Jim because he is starting to go bald and is using a comb over.
 
BravoOne
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:37 pm

Simply more Democratic porn for those desperate for the over throw of the US President. Simply does not rise to the level needed. There is an election around the corner and that's the place where a change will occur, if needed. On the other hand the Dems might have a circular shoot out worth a few laughs in the end.
 
Ken777
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:38 pm

Okie wrote:

I have no plans to vote for Quid Pro Joe do you?

********

I am going to question if Pelosi will pull the plug on Schiff before Fridays Humbug.

Okie


I'd vote for a Cocker Spaniel before I'd vote for trump.

Schiff did fine in my view - it was the outstanding performance of our two Ambassadors who made the day. The GOP was flopping around a bit because Trump won't let them say anything bad about Trump's actions.
 
BN747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:03 pm

Jim Jordan: There is one witness, just ONE, that the Dems will not call. Will not let the American people hear from...

Rep. Welch (D): President trump can take a seat right over there...!

The room exploded in LOL's!!!


Image[/quote]

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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zkojq
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:31 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
fake news dude. he doesn't have a son who sits on the board. If you can't stand Trump, why do you listen to the fake
news that Trumpsters put out there.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAIOJyt


That indeed is fake news but I think it's stupid to suggest that Biden's son deserved that job. It is possible to take a nuanced position and think that it's not ok for politician's families to be enrich by their positions (and that absolutely includes Ivanka and Jared Kushner doing the same thing) but to also believe that it is not acceptable for the president to undertake Quid Pro Quo to try and harm a political opponent.
First to fly the 787-9
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:44 am

zkojq wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
fake news dude. he doesn't have a son who sits on the board. If you can't stand Trump, why do you listen to the fake
news that Trumpsters put out there.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAIOJyt


That indeed is fake news but I think it's stupid to suggest that Biden's son deserved that job. It is possible to take a nuanced position and think that it's not ok for politician's families to be enrich by their positions (and that absolutely includes Ivanka and Jared Kushner doing the same thing) but to also believe that it is not acceptable for the president to undertake Quid Pro Quo to try and harm a political opponent.

I think everyone agrees that nepotism is bad, but for this administration to whine about nepotism is like Ted Bundy whining about unfair treatment of women.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
alfa164
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:22 am

stratosphere wrote:
find it interesting that so many politicians namely Pelosi, Biden, Romney and Kerry all have sons that are on the board of directors of energy companies all doing business in the Ukraine. But I am sure it's all a coincidence.


Prove it. Provide the facts, or we will have to regard that as a lie.

BN747 wrote:
Jim Jordan: There is one witness, just ONE, that the Dems will not call. Will not let the American people hear from...
Rep. Welch (D): President trump can take a seat right over there...!

The room exploded in LOL's!!!


The committee's Republicans seem to be taking the strategy of "ignore what Trump has actually admitted to; take a look at the other side of the room...". Jim Jordan was clearly added to be an attack dog, with no desire to clarify or edify anyone. And my own Congressman, John Ratcliffe, is apparently jealous of Jordan's arrival, and tried his best to out-stupid Jordan - something he seems to be successfully proving he can do.

It is a tough position when every credible witness ties the release of air to Ukraine to Trump's desire to undermine a political opponent, but the Republicans - so far - haven't even tried to look at the facts. Distraction and distortion is the only game left.


MaverickM11 wrote:
I think everyone agrees that nepotism is bad, but for this administration to whine about nepotism is like Ted Bundy whining about unfair treatment of women.


:checkmark:
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
BN747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:42 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
zkojq wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
fake news dude. he doesn't have a son who sits on the board. If you can't stand Trump, why do you listen to the fake
news that Trumpsters put out there.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAIOJyt


That indeed is fake news but I think it's stupid to suggest that Biden's son deserved that job. It is possible to take a nuanced position and think that it's not ok for politician's families to be enrich by their positions (and that absolutely includes Ivanka and Jared Kushner doing the same thing) but to also believe that it is not acceptable for the president to undertake Quid Pro Quo to try and harm a political opponent.

I think everyone agrees that nepotism is bad, but for this administration to whine about nepotism is like Ted Bundy whining about unfair treatment of women.


Nepotism explains the reason crappy movies outnumber good ones by a ration of 5000 to 1...or higher.

Nepotism in politics, like money in politics needs to be reigned in and clamped down.
We need to get serious about this and thetrump family is exactly where we need to start, they are all as ignorant as he is an grifting every day they wake up.

No more building family dynasties at taxpayers trough.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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WarRI1
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:56 am

I watched almost all of it, two honorable men facing a bunch of Republican Clowns. They did not really know how far to go with the West Point Combat Vet from Vietnam. How can you shame an American Hero when you are slavishly following Captain Bone Spurs who cannot even remember where they were. I give them credit for that somewhat, unlike the hypocrite they follow who loves to insult Hero's who did their duty.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:25 am

What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine? The aid (blankets and the like) were shipped to Poland and thence by local trucking. These clowns are just using the hearings to oppose Trump and spout the State Department line. Deep Staters.

GF
 
BN747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:31 am

WarRI1 wrote:
I watched almost all of it, two honorable men facing a bunch of Republican Clowns. They did not really know how far to go with the West Point Combat Vet from Vietnam. How can you shame an American Hero when you are slavishly following Captain Bone Spurs who cannot even remember where they were. I give them credit for that somewhat, unlike the hypocrite they follow who loves to insult Hero's who did their duty.


Yeah, Taylor...graduated 5th from a class of 800, then chose on his own to jump right to the fighting in infantry and awarded the medal for Valor.

And Commander Bone Spurs and his minions (and MAGA fans) will trash a guy like that when told to OR Not! If that isn't cultist mentality...someone please tell me what is.
Scientologist have nothing on MAGA boys, as Leah Remini shows..they'll jump ship when their eyes are opened, then some choose not to look, like Tom Cruise & Travolta.

Both men are true Patriotic Americans and beyond reproach...which explains sex-offender supporter Jordan, Ratcliffe & Nunes & his cow mom, came off looking like whiney school girls in pink dresses.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:39 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine? The aid (blankets and the like) were shipped to Poland and thence by local trucking. These clowns are just using the hearings to oppose Trump and spout the State Department line. Deep Staters.

GF


They made clear that the previous Ukrainian government was hopelessly corrupt...the Obama admin’s State Dept obviously took necessary precautions. With the change of government there, and ongoing security situation, those tools became urgently needed. Were you not listening at all?

Calling dedicated and professional foreign service officials ‘clowns’ says more about you than them. Pretty low class, to say the least.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:47 am

zkojq wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
fake news dude. he doesn't have a son who sits on the board. If you can't stand Trump, why do you listen to the fake
news that Trumpsters put out there.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAIOJyt


That indeed is fake news but I think it's stupid to suggest that Biden's son deserved that job. It is possible to take a nuanced position and think that it's not ok for politician's families to be enrich by their positions (and that absolutely includes Ivanka and Jared Kushner doing the same thing) but to also believe that it is not acceptable for the president to undertake Quid Pro Quo to try and harm a political opponent.



Why do you think Hunter didn't deserve a job on that companies board Hunter was appointed to the board of Amtrak by George W Bush. was that a mistake as well? He did a good job. It seems like people are implying that Hunter didn't have the business smarts and had to be handed jobs. that's not true ff you look at his record. Hunter is a venture capitalist, was a successful lobbyist, those are professions that are difficult to succeed at people have to trust you. Hunter also a lawyer and learned the ropes through a holding company rising to Vice-President. If Hunter has a weakness it's drugs. That's the only negative thing, I've heard about him. Business-wise he's successful. Trump probably can't stand that, look at Trump's two sons. They are the ones that have been handed jobs.
 
Ken777
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:53 am

The Republicans ned to enjoy this week because Gordon Sondland is heading to his under oath TV appearance and the bet is that he is going to flip. His cell phone call to Trump from a restaurant was overheard by an aide who goes under oath this Friday. If Gordon Sondland is still alive when his day comes he's going to wake up a lot of people who believe that Trump can do no wrong.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:58 am

Ken777 wrote:
The Republicans ned to enjoy this week because Gordon Sondland is heading to his under oath TV appearance and the bet is that he is going to flip. His cell phone call to Trump from a restaurant was overheard by an aide who goes under oath this Friday. If Gordon Sondland is still alive when his day comes he's going to wake up a lot of people who believe that Trump can do no wrong.


To add further insult to injury, Giuliani put out a large editorial in the WSJ flinging wild accusations. I like the WSJ but highly questionable to give this guy a platform when he’s under criminal investigation, has associates who are already indicted, and is in the process of bringing a POTUS down.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:49 am

Ken777 wrote:
The Republicans ned to enjoy this week because Gordon Sondland is heading to his under oath TV appearance and the bet is that he is going to flip. His cell phone call to Trump from a restaurant was overheard by an aide who goes under oath this Friday. If Gordon Sondland is still alive when his day comes he's going to wake up a lot of people who believe that Trump can do no wrong.

When will there be a witness (or will there be) to testify on a direct basis, or is just more hearsay to come.

Only a Democrat can state, and with a straight face, that hearsay can be more powerful than direct evidence. :sour:

Schiff show turning into a $hit show.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:00 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The Republicans ned to enjoy this week because Gordon Sondland is heading to his under oath TV appearance and the bet is that he is going to flip. His cell phone call to Trump from a restaurant was overheard by an aide who goes under oath this Friday. If Gordon Sondland is still alive when his day comes he's going to wake up a lot of people who believe that Trump can do no wrong.

When will there be a witness (or will there be) to testify on a direct basis, or is just more hearsay to come.

Only a Democrat can state, and with a straight face, that hearsay can be more powerful than direct evidence. :sour:

Schiff show turning into a $hit show.


There won’t be direct evidence - it has been obfuscated by code talk and distributing process amongst minions, the same reason Mueller ‘could not establish’ conclusive evidence - because key testimony and docs were not provided. But that was a different proceeding - impeachment inquiry is not a criminal proceeding, and evidence supplied by working professionals is more than sufficient. As Kent said, this is not any different than direct knowledge one comes by when working in any close-knit organization - you don’t have to have been IN a meeting to know what its contents and directives were. Stop playing dumb - you purport that established criminals have more credibility than seasoned professionals and decorated veterans? No way.

Further the witnesses with direct knowledge - Mulvaney, Pompeo etc are not allowed to testify. Why? Sondland’s testimony will likely be devastating - his amended deposition arguably already is.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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WarRI1
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:04 am

FTMCPIUS wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The Republicans ned to enjoy this week because Gordon Sondland is heading to his under oath TV appearance and the bet is that he is going to flip. His cell phone call to Trump from a restaurant was overheard by an aide who goes under oath this Friday. If Gordon Sondland is still alive when his day comes he's going to wake up a lot of people who believe that Trump can do no wrong.

When will there be a witness (or will there be) to testify on a direct basis, or is just more hearsay to come.

Only a Democrat can state, and with a straight face, that hearsay can be more powerful than direct evidence. :sour:

Schiff show turning into a $hit show.



As was said today, Hearsay evidence is accepted many times in court and has led to many convictions. If anyone is familiar with the way the Mafia operates, they may be smart enough to see and realize this is the way the trump and his henchmen operate, bury everything in multi layered lies and actions. The Godfather, in this case Captain bone spurs and his many layered operations work the same. What do we hear over and over, trump demands loyalty, or you are gone, fired. In the real Mafia of course you wore cement shoes. :yes:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:03 am

SanDiegoLover wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The Trump Impeachment Hearings has now started and I believe that a new thread is needed to focus on this phase. With the first two witnesses ( George Kent and William Taylor) making their initial statements this Impeachment Committee is underway. Their testimony will be clearly demonstrating the "transparency" the GOP has been demanding. Ambassador Taylor has clearly put Trump's quid pro quo on the table. He also indicated that he was stunned when he learned that the defense funding was on hold until Trump was satisfied with at least the appearance of an investigation. Overall both gentlemen are being very detailed on their opening speeches and Ambassador Taylor made it clear Shat one Ukrainian was killed by the Russians about once a week, with others injured. Ambassador Tylor is delivering extensive evidence, including the statement that a trump was more interested in the Ukraine public announcement of an "investigation Into the Bidens" than the national security of the Ukraine itself.


More waste of taxpayer money by the Democrats and it will go no where just like the Mueller probe. I find it interesting that so many politicians namely Pelosi, Biden, Romney and Kerry all have sons that are on the board of directors of energy companies all doing business in the Ukraine. But I am sure it's all a coincidence. But you liberals just keep digging that hole so deep you will never get out of it. It's gonna take a lot more than a Ukrainian Quid Pro Quo for me to change my vote and to be truthful I can't stand Trump.


You willingly and knowingly will vote for a man who has committed bribery/extortion while in office, a crime specifically called out in the Constitution? If so, you lose any ability for the rest of your days to ever claim you love the Constitution or the USA. Someone needs to reread the Constitution especially Article II, Section IV.


Well, on the plus side, the idea of "the constitutions means the opposite of what it says" will come in handy in future 2nd Amendment discussions.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:29 am

WarRI1 wrote:
FTMCPIUS wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
The Republicans ned to enjoy this week because Gordon Sondland is heading to his under oath TV appearance and the bet is that he is going to flip. His cell phone call to Trump from a restaurant was overheard by an aide who goes under oath this Friday. If Gordon Sondland is still alive when his day comes he's going to wake up a lot of people who believe that Trump can do no wrong.

When will there be a witness (or will there be) to testify on a direct basis, or is just more hearsay to come.

Only a Democrat can state, and with a straight face, that hearsay can be more powerful than direct evidence. :sour:

Schiff show turning into a $hit show.



As was said today, Hearsay evidence is accepted many times in court and has led to many convictions.:


And of course the house Impeachment hearing is the equivalent of a Grand Jury in normal proceedings, where hearsay is totally normal.....

Republicans are nearing a definition of "Innocent until proven guilty" that would end the justice system. If you are in deed innocent until you are proven to be guilty, no one could ever be indicted, as you don´t indict innocent people.....

FTMCPIUS wrote:
When will there be a witness (or will there be) to testify on a direct basis, or is just more hearsay to come.


Lieutenant Colonel Alexander S. Vindman wasn´t hearsay, and just little bits of their testimony where hearsay to begin with.

But maybe they should subpoena Hanity and John Solomon to find out who told them to push the debunked Ukraine/Biden just exactly at the time Trump was bribing a foreign government to manufacture just that scandal.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
bgm
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:19 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine? The aid (blankets and the like) were shipped to Poland and thence by local trucking. These clowns are just using the hearings to oppose Trump and spout the State Department line. Deep Staters.

GF


Ok, let's unpick this.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Deep Staters.


First of all: 'deep state'. Jeez, enough with the tin foil hat already. Even though I vehemently disagree with you on politics, I did have some respect for your input. When you pull the Deep State crap, you're in batshit crazy Alex Jones territory. :boggled:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine?


This impeachment hearing is not about that. It's about Trump using leverage to get a foreign government to investigate his political rival. In case you missed it, that's illegal and an impeachable offense.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
These clowns are just using the hearings to oppose Trump and spout the State Department line.


These are respectable civil servants who have long established careers. For you to just dismiss them as 'clowns' because you don't like the evidence being presented shows poor character on your part, not to mention lack of critical thinking. Ambassador Taylor said himself that it was not up to him to decide whether or not Trump should be impeached. He was providing testimony to Congress.

Trump has never had any respect for the law. He honestly doesn't give a shit about it. Do you honestly believe he has even read the Constitution? For his entire life he's either paid off or lawyered his way out of his misdeeds. Unfortunately, that M.O. won't work in this situation.

I'm conflicted by the impeachment trial. On one hand, if enough people come to their senses, he'll be voted out next election and we can close this nightmare chapter. On the other hand, it sets a very bad precedent to Trump and future presidents that they are above the law of the land and can act unlawfully without consequences.
OK boomer.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:33 am

bgm wrote:
First of all: 'deep state'. Jeez, enough with the tin foil hat already. Even though I vehemently disagree with you on politics, I did have some respect for your input. When you pull the Deep State crap, you're in batshit crazy Alex Jones territory. :boggled: .


Well, there seems to be a deep state having its own agenda. They are just not in government employ.....

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:20 am

This was only the 1st day of public hearings. While Wednesday's testimony and likely future testimony will say that Pres. Trump's acts with the Ukrainian leaders are Impeachable, it will be not enough to remove him from office due to the politics of our time and the refusal of Republicans to turn against Pres. Trump. At best it will used by Democrats in next years election campaign against Trump. Problem is that most people don't care, it is too complicated. With Nixon we had recordings of his own words committing Impeachable acts that led to his resignation. Here we don't have that.
Still this effort of Impeachment must be done to be a check on any future President and lead to new ethics rules to limit family members of current and former US politicians from being used by foreign companies and interests to influence USA policy toward them.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:27 am

ltbewr wrote:
the refusal of Republicans to turn against Pres. Trump. .


it is interesting that they rather turn against the constitution than against a criminal. .......

FTMCPIUS wrote:
When will there be a witness (or will there be) to testify on a direct basis, or is just more hearsay to come..


Seems to be David Holmes is the staffer that heard Trump and Sonderland. He is set to testify on Friday, and likely in public at a later date.

He was an outspoken critic of Obama´s Afghanistan policies, even won a price for it, so spinning him as an democratic deep state plant may be somewhat difficult too......

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine? The aid (blankets and the like) were shipped to Poland and thence by local trucking. These clowns are just using the hearings to oppose Trump and spout the State Department line. Deep Staters.

GF


They made clear that the previous Ukrainian government was hopelessly corrupt...the Obama admin’s State Dept obviously took necessary precautions. With the change of government there, and ongoing security situation, those tools became urgently needed. Were you not listening at all?

Calling dedicated and professional foreign service officials ‘clowns’ says more about you than them. Pretty low class, to say the least.


Yes, I was listening to the part where George Kent says Ukraine should be part of NATO so Americans will be on the hook to die for them. State department officials who think they run foreign policy rather than the elected officials are clowns who don’t understand where they fit in.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:48 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine? The aid (blankets and the like) were shipped to Poland and thence by local trucking. These clowns are just using the hearings to oppose Trump and spout the State Department line. Deep Staters.

GF


They made clear that the previous Ukrainian government was hopelessly corrupt...the Obama admin’s State Dept obviously took necessary precautions. With the change of government there, and ongoing security situation, those tools became urgently needed. Were you not listening at all?

Calling dedicated and professional foreign service officials ‘clowns’ says more about you than them. Pretty low class, to say the least.


Yes, I was listening to the part where George Kent says Ukraine should be part of NATO so Americans will be on the hook to die for them. State department officials who think they run foreign policy rather than the elected officials are clowns who don’t understand where they fit in.


And that has what exactly to do with the crimes the commander in chief has committed? Of, right.... absolutely nothing.
And if the horror.... government employees have opinions!!!

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:54 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine? The aid (blankets and the like) were shipped to Poland and thence by local trucking. These clowns are just using the hearings to oppose Trump and spout the State Department line. Deep Staters.

GF


They made clear that the previous Ukrainian government was hopelessly corrupt...the Obama admin’s State Dept obviously took necessary precautions. With the change of government there, and ongoing security situation, those tools became urgently needed. Were you not listening at all?

Calling dedicated and professional foreign service officials ‘clowns’ says more about you than them. Pretty low class, to say the least.


Yes, I was listening to the part where George Kent says Ukraine should be part of NATO so Americans will be on the hook to die for them. State department officials who think they run foreign policy rather than the elected officials are clowns who don’t understand where they fit in.


Then you are also listening highly selectively because Kent also said he has carried out the foreign policy, whatever it was, of five different administrations. He is a dedicated public servant - THAT is not in question. You took issue with one personal view in his statement and ignored the totality of his career? Further, you ignore the larger point that 45 WH’s stated policy of assisting Ukraine and opposing Russian expansion was countermanded by Giuliani’s alternate policy seeking to score political points for 45? 45 made clear he doesn’t give a damn about Ukrainian lives, our previous commitments, taxpayer money already spent securing US interests, or corruption - he just wanted to leverage their need for aid to get something that helps his campaign. Excusing low class and unprofessional actions is...low class.

People are being asked to believe the head of a fraudulent organization (Trump org) and his attorney, now himself accused of crimes (with associates already indicted), over unassailable public servants with distinguished records? It just doesn’t pass the smell test.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:39 pm

The impeachment hearings have shown one thing. The Republicans are not interested in investigating for the good of the country.

If you elected a person to represent one of your personal clubs or organizations and that person and was in charge of your dues and how it was spent, would you take exception if he was found guilty of fraud, and take a closer look at the books and agenda?

I would.


Why are Republicans not demanding full transparency from Trump? Why do they attack those that are bringing up more evidence of fraud? I think the evidence presented so far is clear that Trump values his personal priorities above those of the United States, and as such represents a danger to US interests.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17729
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:19 pm

bgm wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Deep Staters.


First of all: 'deep state'. Jeez, enough with the tin foil hat already. Even though I vehemently disagree with you on politics, I did have some respect for your input. When you pull the Deep State crap, you're in batshit crazy Alex Jones territory. :boggled:

Are Trump/Mulvaney/Giuliani part of the dEeP StAte now? Because they've copped to everything a dozen ways to Sunday.

bgm wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine?

Uh what? You do realize there's a difference between withholding aid for the *country* versus withholding aid for the president's personal grudge, right? Course you don't. :banghead:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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seb146
Posts: 21067
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:57 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What happy horse crap—if Taylor and Kent think Ukraine is so important why didn’t they raise Holy Hell when the sainted Obama refused lethal military aid to Ukraine’s, even refused to send non-lethal aid directly by US Mil transport to Ukraine? The aid (blankets and the like) were shipped to Poland and thence by local trucking. These clowns are just using the hearings to oppose Trump and spout the State Department line. Deep Staters.

GF


They made clear that the previous Ukrainian government was hopelessly corrupt...the Obama admin’s State Dept obviously took necessary precautions. With the change of government there, and ongoing security situation, those tools became urgently needed. Were you not listening at all?

Calling dedicated and professional foreign service officials ‘clowns’ says more about you than them. Pretty low class, to say the least.


Yes, I was listening to the part where George Kent says Ukraine should be part of NATO so Americans will be on the hook to die for them. State department officials who think they run foreign policy rather than the elected officials are clowns who don’t understand where they fit in.


Last time I checked, NATO was made up of more than just United States soldiers.

State Department officials have been saying for over a year now that they have no leadership from the White House. That the occupant does not do anything and does not look at any memos or briefings. So, yes, in this case it is completely appropriate for State Department officials to go out on their own and run foreign policy when their boss refuses to do so. It is sad, but that is where we are.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... nder-trump
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bhill
Posts: 1669
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:58 pm

As for this "This is all hearsay" bullshit, the solution is quite simple, the Administration can release any and all documents, notes and recordings for submission as proof to refute these charges, and allow the persons that were served with subpoenas to testify. Because truth will out.....right?
Carpe Pices
 
MaverickM11
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:08 pm

bhill wrote:
As for this "This is all hearsay" bullshit, the solution is quite simple, the Administration can release any and all documents, notes and recordings for submission as proof to refute these charges, and allow the persons that were served with subpoenas to testify. Because truth will out.....right?

It was a perfect call so, makes sense to me :rotfl:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Ken777
Topic Author
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:22 pm

FTMCPIUS wrote:

When will there be a witness (or will there be) to testify on a direct basis, or is just more hearsay to come.

Only a Democrat can state, and with a straight face, that hearsay can be more powerful than direct evidence. :sour:

Schiff show turning into a $hit show.


Look for solid, direct evidence from Gordon Sondland on Wednesday when he is sworn in and has to clean up his testimony in the closed sessions.

BTW, Gordon is a solid Trumper. He donated a Million Dollars to Trump's Inaugural Celebration - possibly so he could be an Ambassador for Trump in a nice plush location - like the EU.

Now Gordon is going to be your witness to testify on a direct basis - exactly what you want. As he has already "modified" his testimony at least once I hassle a feeling that his attorney(s) will be telling him "Do. Not. Lie." and if Gordon actually listens to them because of the major evidence we learned yesterday:

A U.S. ambassador’s cellphone call to President Trump from a restaurant in the capital of Ukraine this summer was a stunning breach of security, exposing the conversation to surveillance by foreign intelligence services, including Russia’s, former U.S. officials said.

The call — in which Trump’s remarks were overheard by a U.S. Embassy staffer in Kyiv — was disclosed Wednesday by the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, William B. Taylor Jr., on the dramatic opening day of public impeachment hearings into alleged abuse of power by the president.

New testimony ties Trump more directly to Ukraine pressure campaign

“The member of my staff could hear President Trump on the phone” asking U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland about “the investigations,” Taylor testified, referring to the president’s desire for a probe of the son of Trump’s potential political opponent in 2020, Joe Biden, and the Ukrainian energy company on whose board Hunter Biden once served.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

That staffer is meeting with the Committee in a private deposition on Friday and we'll be seeing him soon and he was able to hear Trump's voice.

That is your "a witness (or will there be) to testify on a direct basis, or is just more hearsay to come." and there is our clear smoking gun.
 
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zkojq
Posts: 3964
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:18 pm

I look forwards to the Loonie Trump Supporters trying to claim that Sondland was a "never Trumper". The millions of dollars donated to Trump's campaign was obviously just a way to fool the libs! :lol:

Image

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Why do you think Hunter didn't deserve a job on that companies board Hunter was appointed to the board of Amtrak by George W Bush. was that a mistake as well? He did a good job. It seems like people are implying that Hunter didn't have the business smarts and had to be handed jobs. that's not true ff you look at his record. Hunter is a venture capitalist, was a successful lobbyist, those are professions that are difficult to succeed at people have to trust you. Hunter also a lawyer and learned the ropes through a holding company rising to Vice-President. If Hunter has a weakness it's drugs. That's the only negative thing, I've heard about him. Business-wise he's successful. Trump probably can't stand that, look at Trump's two sons. They are the ones that have been handed jobs.


Biden was being paid ~10x more a month than other directors. So of all the possible people on the planet who could have been a director, Burissma just happened to choose the son of the US Vice President? Was his knowledge of Natural Gas really worth so much? Presumably he had a PhD in geography or chemistry or decades and decades of experience in the energy industry?

Like I said above, it is possible to have a nuanced position on this. I don't believe that Joe nor Hunter did anything illegal in this regard but nepotism is nepotism. Just because the other side is off the charts crazy doesn't justify digging one's head into the sand.
First to fly the 787-9
 
BN747
Posts: 7077
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:57 pm

zkojq wrote:
I look forwards to the Loonie Trump Supporters trying to claim that Sondland was a "never Trumper". The millions of dollars donated to Trump's campaign was obviously just a way to fool the libs! :lol:

Image

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
Why do you think Hunter didn't deserve a job on that companies board Hunter was appointed to the board of Amtrak by George W Bush. was that a mistake as well? He did a good job. It seems like people are implying that Hunter didn't have the business smarts and had to be handed jobs. that's not true ff you look at his record. Hunter is a venture capitalist, was a successful lobbyist, those are professions that are difficult to succeed at people have to trust you. Hunter also a lawyer and learned the ropes through a holding company rising to Vice-President. If Hunter has a weakness it's drugs. That's the only negative thing, I've heard about him. Business-wise he's successful. Trump probably can't stand that, look at Trump's two sons. They are the ones that have been handed jobs.


Biden was being paid ~10x more a month than other directors. So of all the possible people on the planet who could have been a director, Burissma just happened to choose the son of the US Vice President? Was his knowledge of Natural Gas really worth so much? Presumably he had a PhD in geography or chemistry or decades and decades of experience in the energy industry?

Like I said above, it is possible to have a nuanced position on this. I don't believe that Joe nor Hunter did anything illegal in this regard but nepotism is nepotism. Just because the other side is off the charts crazy doesn't justify digging one's head into the sand.


Precisely...this is too much of a flagrant violation of ethics for Dem comfort.
Franken had to step down over Dem ethical concerns of 'a photo of him posing to grasp breast. just posing not touching' the other side has no problem voting for adulterers, wife beaters, full on sexual assaulters, child molesters..no line cannot be crossed.

This is some nasty nepotism and Uncle Joe has to step aside DEMs can in no way be seem as saying 'this is okay'.

On another note, I hope lunkheads coming for Congressional Impeachment Hearings tomorrow do not bring their ultra macho bravado cortex when facing Marie Yovanovitch. necause if you think Jim Jordan took a dunking yesterday..he's sure ass hell will walk into a buzzsaw if he pulls that 'screaming monkey' nonsense with her.

I like everything I see about Marie Yovanovitch, a well composed diplomat of the highest order. If she comes off as intelligent (as seems) and confident as her stern posture suggest...I must add her to top list of favorite historical figures and a turn on of sorts - if she delivers as the appearance projects.

We shall see.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 101
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:39 am

casinterest wrote:
The impeachment hearings have shown one thing. The Republicans are not interested in investigating for the good of the country.

If you elected a person to represent one of your personal clubs or organizations and that person and was in charge of your dues and how it was spent, would you take exception if he was found guilty of fraud, and take a closer look at the books and agenda?

I would.


Why are Republicans not demanding full transparency from Trump? Why do they attack those that are bringing up more evidence of fraud? I think the evidence presented so far is clear that Trump values his personal priorities above those of the United States, and as such represents a danger to US interests.


No doubt. This reminds me of how cops protect their own regardless of if what they do is illegal or abusive etc. I never got that. I think it may be a weird Christian thing.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:58 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
bhill wrote:
As for this "This is all hearsay" bullshit, the solution is quite simple, the Administration can release any and all documents, notes and recordings for submission as proof to refute these charges, and allow the persons that were served with subpoenas to testify. Because truth will out.....right?

It was a perfect call so, makes sense to me :rotfl:


Fun bit: It is obvious that there is no tangible defense for his crimes that the silence in the thread is deafening...

But hey, even Republican Congressman have to lie in Congress now to get some sound bits for Fox to run over and over again in order to fool those that don´t watch the hearings (Just like no Trump supporter here has ever bothered to read the Mueller report, i am pretty sure none watches the hearings and only use bits and pieces they have been fed from somewhere else).

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
BN747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:45 pm

Hmmm, the Criminal president says 'He was looking out to put and end to corruption in Ukraine.'

vs

Marie Yovanovitch stating the American anti-corruption plans were amid stride until Guiliani got involved.

Plus, trump was praising the past corrupt prosecutor generals while trashing Yovanovitch.

If women are watching the Yovanovitch testimony, #MeToo just got a SRB for a second launch. Women are not going to like one bit of this...


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 9931
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:59 pm

BN747 wrote:
Hmmm, the Criminal president says 'He was looking out to put and end to corruption in Ukraine.'

vs

Marie Yovanovitch stating the American anti-corruption plans were amid stride until Guiliani got involved.

Plus, trump was praising the past corrupt prosecutor generals while trashing Yovanovitch.

If women are watching the Yovanovitch testimony, #MeToo just got a SRB for a second launch. Women are not going to like one bit of this...


BN747


Watching Amb. Taylor and Yovanovitch, it suddenly hit me that without the poise and professionalism of these folks at State, we’d be despised abroad far more.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
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