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tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:39 am

casinterest wrote:
Looks like the GOP members of the house intelligence panel is going full conspiracy theory with their rebuttal report ( prior to the actual report) .

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/02/politics ... index.html

They are retreating to already disproved conspiracy theories for their "proof"


If you are a venturing journalist looking into the lives and business of certain GOP members peddling those conspiracy theories may be fruitful to figure out what the Russians have on them.

The Republicans currently widen the definition of election meddling to a point where any foreigner having and stating any opinion about US Politics is "Meddling", as it is the only way to accuse anyone but Russia, to distract from the president bribing a foreign official with Tax payer money he has no legal control over.

best regards
Thomas
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seahawk
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:42 am

People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:06 am

seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


A kangaroo court is an unofficial dealing, like being dragged through a town square by non-authorities to be tarred and feathered. Please enlighten us as to how a Constitutionally valid (and required) proceeding fits such a provocatively inaccurate description. The mind boggles.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BN747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


A kangaroo court is an unofficial dealing, like being dragged through a town square by non-authorities to be tarred and feathered. Please enlighten us as to how a Constitutionally valid (and required) proceeding fits such a provocatively inaccurate description. The mind boggles.


You aren't holding your breath for any type of logical reply, are you?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:00 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


A kangaroo court is an unofficial dealing, like being dragged through a town square by non-authorities to be tarred and feathered. Please enlighten us as to how a Constitutionally valid (and required) proceeding fits such a provocatively inaccurate description. The mind boggles.


The so-called constitution.....

Just wait for Trump saying exactly that.

Best regards
Thomas
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seahawk
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:28 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


A kangaroo court is an unofficial dealing, like being dragged through a town square by non-authorities to be tarred and feathered. Please enlighten us as to how a Constitutionally valid (and required) proceeding fits such a provocatively inaccurate description. The mind boggles.


Because it is run like a kangaroo court and for that I do largely blame the Trump administration and the governance through twitter approach. But I can not really stand to follow this show any longer. More like the worst season of the apprentice, than an important constitutional proceeding.

If you look it at it, the 25th is what people should be talking about.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:04 am

seahawk wrote:
If you look it at it, the 25th is what people should be talking about.


If you look at that, his cabinet being made up of "Yes-Man" Co-conspirators, and the Senate Republicans seem to be as well, its pretty much down to a test of the 2nd Amendment by now.

Trump is just working on his insanity defense to stay out of jail after all is said and done.

best regards
Thomas
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:24 am

seahawk wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


A kangaroo court is an unofficial dealing, like being dragged through a town square by non-authorities to be tarred and feathered. Please enlighten us as to how a Constitutionally valid (and required) proceeding fits such a provocatively inaccurate description. The mind boggles.


Because it is run like a kangaroo court and for that I do largely blame the Trump administration and the governance through twitter approach. But I can not really stand to follow this show any longer. More like the worst season of the apprentice, than an important constitutional proceeding.

If you look it at it, the 25th is what people should be talking about.


The 25th is fraught with issues, even moreso than impeachment. Suppose POTUS refuses to submit to a neurological examination? Suppose POTUS insists any GOP Congresspersons voting to invoke are 'Never Trumpers'? Suppose he fires Pence before the 25th process is completed, just to muddy the waters? The standard procedures outlined by the framers already are sufficient in this case.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:29 pm

seahawk wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


A kangaroo court is an unofficial dealing, like being dragged through a town square by non-authorities to be tarred and feathered. Please enlighten us as to how a Constitutionally valid (and required) proceeding fits such a provocatively inaccurate description. The mind boggles.


Because it is run like a kangaroo court and for that I do largely blame the Trump administration and the governance through twitter approach. But I can not really stand to follow this show any longer. More like the worst season of the apprentice, than an important constitutional proceeding.

If you look it at it, the 25th is what people should be talking about.


Which profile in courage would you like to highlight amongst the cabinet? The coconspirator Rick Perry at Energy? DeVos at Education? Moscow Mitch’s wife at Transportation? Sleepy Ben Carson at HUD? Pompey at State? The Munchkin at Treasury? Scalia’s kid? Perdue Farms at Agriculture? Come on! Get serious.
 
extender
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:33 pm

Keeps running on like a Plymouth with a bad tank of gas. Get over it, it ain't gonna happen.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:05 pm

extender wrote:
Keeps running on like a Plymouth with a bad tank of gas. Get over it, it ain't gonna happen.


Of course, the Mafia is hard to fight and sticks together.

But one day the US will have an AG again. Law will prevail.

best regards
Thomas
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tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:07 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

A kangaroo court is an unofficial dealing, like being dragged through a town square by non-authorities to be tarred and feathered. Please enlighten us as to how a Constitutionally valid (and required) proceeding fits such a provocatively inaccurate description. The mind boggles.


Because it is run like a kangaroo court and for that I do largely blame the Trump administration and the governance through twitter approach. But I can not really stand to follow this show any longer. More like the worst season of the apprentice, than an important constitutional proceeding.

If you look it at it, the 25th is what people should be talking about.


Which profile in courage would you like to highlight amongst the cabinet? The coconspirator Rick Perry at Energy? DeVos at Education? Moscow Mitch’s wife at Transportation? Sleepy Ben Carson at HUD? Pompey at State? The Munchkin at Treasury? Scalia’s kid? Perdue Farms at Agriculture? Come on! Get serious.


I wonder how many of those will end up serving time once Barr is gone and the DOJ deserves its name again instead of refusing to investigate crimes.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:27 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
SanDiegoLover wrote:
seahawk wrote:

Because it is run like a kangaroo court and for that I do largely blame the Trump administration and the governance through twitter approach. But I can not really stand to follow this show any longer. More like the worst season of the apprentice, than an important constitutional proceeding.

If you look it at it, the 25th is what people should be talking about.


Which profile in courage would you like to highlight amongst the cabinet? The coconspirator Rick Perry at Energy? DeVos at Education? Moscow Mitch’s wife at Transportation? Sleepy Ben Carson at HUD? Pompey at State? The Munchkin at Treasury? Scalia’s kid? Perdue Farms at Agriculture? Come on! Get serious.


I wonder how many of those will end up serving time once Barr is gone and the DOJ deserves its name again instead of refusing to investigate crimes.

best regards
Thomas


I’ve said from Day 1 of Trump’s term that his shenanigans would engulf the media, and all the cronies at their various departments would be overshadowed allowing them to do god knows what regarding kickbacks, sweetheart deals, and favors, for all those connected. My guess is we will not know the full extent of the corruption and malfeasance for several years.

I do admit, watching Breitfarters gnash their teeth over the IG’s report that states the FBI had good cause to investigate Trump during 2016 and there was no spying going on. They thought for sure dozens of people were going to hang for it. They still are pissed Hillary isn’t locked up yet.
 
extender
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:29 pm

You mean an AG that colludes with witnesses? An AG that breaks the law? That kind of AG?
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:47 pm

extender wrote:
You mean an AG that colludes with witnesses? An AG that breaks the law? That kind of AG?


if i wanted that i woulnd´t be hopeful for a new one.....

best regards
Thomas
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casinterest
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:41 pm

extender wrote:
You mean an AG that colludes with witnesses? An AG that breaks the law? That kind of AG?


You mean like William Barr? The one that is throwing out the IG report that shows the FBI was correct to investigate the Trump campaign?
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tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:47 pm

casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
You mean an AG that colludes with witnesses? An AG that breaks the law? That kind of AG?


You mean like William Barr? The one that is throwing out the IG report that shows the FBI was correct to investigate the Trump campaign?


And the one that lied about the content of the Mueller Report and the dozen plus felonies inside it.....

best regards
Thomas
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casinterest
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:53 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
You mean an AG that colludes with witnesses? An AG that breaks the law? That kind of AG?


You mean like William Barr? The one that is throwing out the IG report that shows the FBI was correct to investigate the Trump campaign?


And the one that lied about the content of the Mueller Report and the dozen plus felonies inside it.....

best regards
Thomas


Collusion is an open Barr within the White House
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:54 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
In a new level of cray cray, the WH is floating SCOTUS as a resolution!

seb146 wrote:
I don't think Roberts is as far right as McConnell and Graham and Pence and the other corrupt White House puppets want him to be.....

The SCOTUS has no say in impeachment proceedings. For the SCOTUS to weigh in would be a true constitutional crisis since it's stated that the House has oversight of the executive branch and sole power to impeach officials. Even if the House votes to impeach, the only SCOTUS role served here is by Roberts (alongside Pence) as a mediator of proceedings. All 100 Senators are jurors and it falls on them what the outcome will be. Appointing Kavanaugh and Gorsuch means squat.
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casinterest
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:45 pm

Interesting Tidbit from Pew Research.

It seems the Republican party is much more in favor of a dictatorship than they were 3 years ago.

Image
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seb146
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:54 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
In a new level of cray cray, the WH is floating SCOTUS as a resolution!

seb146 wrote:
I don't think Roberts is as far right as McConnell and Graham and Pence and the other corrupt White House puppets want him to be.....

The SCOTUS has no say in impeachment proceedings. For the SCOTUS to weigh in would be a true constitutional crisis since it's stated that the House has oversight of the executive branch and sole power to impeach officials. Even if the House votes to impeach, the only SCOTUS role served here is by Roberts (alongside Pence) as a mediator of proceedings. All 100 Senators are jurors and it falls on them what the outcome will be. Appointing Kavanaugh and Gorsuch means squat.


There are several law suits making their way through the court system. Which, BTW, has been stacked to the far right. We already know Gorsuch and Kavanaugh will do anything to support team MAGA. Thomas will just go along with it. Roberts, however, is a wild card in these law suits. In the past, he has sided with the "liberal" justices. I think he would side with them when it comes to the corrupt MAGA cover ups as well.
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casinterest
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:12 pm

The intelligence committee report is out.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/03/politics ... index.html

Table of Contents for those curious on what is being advanced. Not much different than what is discussed previously.
But by and large dangerous precedents for any President to set.

"KEY FINDINGS OF FACT........................................................................................................34
SECTION I. THE PRESIDENT’S MISCONDUCT ...............................................................37
1. The President Forced Out the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine...........................................38
2. The President Put Giuliani and the Three Amigos in Charge of Ukraine Issues ............51
3. The President Froze Military Assistance to Ukraine.......................................................67
4. The President’s Meeting with the Ukrainian President Was Conditioned on An
Announcement of Investigations.....................................................................................83
5. The President Asked the Ukrainian President to Interfere in the 2020 U.S. Election by
Investigating the Bidens and 2016 Election Interference................................................98
6. The President Wanted Ukraine to Announce the Investigations Publicly ....................114
7. The President’s Conditioning of Military Assistance and a White House Meeting on
Announcement of Investigations Raised Alarm............................................................126
8. The President’s Scheme Was Exposed..........................................................................140
SECTION II. THE PRESIDENT’S OBSTRUCTION OF THE HOUSE OF
REPRESENTATIVES’ IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY ..........................................................202
1. Constitutional Authority for Congressional Oversight and Impeachment ....................203
2. The President’s Categorical Refusal to Comply ...........................................................208
3. The President’s Refusal to Produce Any and All Subpoenaed Documents..................217
4. The President’s Refusal to Allow Top Aides to Testify................................................231
5. The President’s Unsuccessful Attempts to Block Key Witnesses.................................245
6. The President’s Intimidation of Witnesses....................................................................257"
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casinterest
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:31 pm

Meanwhile,
Why was Devin Nunes talking to (indicted for fraud) Les Parnes and Rudy Giulianni in April? https://www.axios.com/devin-nunes-lev-p ... 6812b.html


Why it matters: The call records constitute some of the only new revelations from the report, which mostly relies on witness testimony that has been released to the public.

The big picture: The April contacts came in the midst of a smear campaign against former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, which was led by Giuliani, Parnas and John Solomon, a Trump-friendly journalist who formerly wrote for The Hill.




Better yet, why do Republicans see Nines as a man that should be on the intelligence committee when he associates with those in the midst of a smear campaign?
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:10 pm

casinterest wrote:
Meanwhile,
Why was Devin Nunes talking to (indicted for fraud) Les Parnes and Rudy Giulianni in April? https://www.axios.com/devin-nunes-lev-p ... 6812b.html


Why it matters: The call records constitute some of the only new revelations from the report, which mostly relies on witness testimony that has been released to the public.

The big picture: The April contacts came in the midst of a smear campaign against former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, which was led by Giuliani, Parnas and John Solomon, a Trump-friendly journalist who formerly wrote for The Hill.




Better yet, why do Republicans see Nines as a man that should be on the intelligence committee when he associates with those in the midst of a smear campaign?


Why is Nunes suing CNN for defamation when discovery will bear this shit out? He’s not getting good legal advice.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
MSPNWA
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:44 pm

seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


Will never accept that the nation didn't elect the president of their choice.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:51 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


Will never accept that the nation didn't elect the president of their choice.


Keep telling yourself that. A lot of independents, including myself, didn’t vote for either DJT or HRC because both were junk candidates. This is about the oath of office not being faithfully executed.

If Rudy was the ‘personal lawyer’ of POTUS, why do phone records show innumerable contacts between he and WH officials, the OMB office, Rep. Nunes and John Solomon? This next onslaught of excuses oughta be good.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... ntacts?amp
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Tugger
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:11 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


Will never accept that the nation didn't elect the president of their choice.

I do laugh that some keep clinging to the idea that people are trying to "reverse" the election. Trump was elected by the vote of the people.

Of course that doesn't change that he is a piss poor president and can't control himself, let alone function within the confines of a president.

Tugg
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winginit
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:14 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


Will never accept that the nation didn't elect the president of their choice.


It really doesn't even matter. Whether Donald Trump leaves office in 2020 or 2024, he will depart an incompetent disgrace especially in the eyes of the younger generation who are repulsed by him. His base will be shamed as they slide into irrelevance, and the Republican Party will be in shambles without their cult leader while the likes of Romney and Graham fail to convince everyone to pretend that Trump's presidency never happened.

Trump has bent the GOP over a barrel, stripped the party of their traditional values, and in their stockholm syndrome the Republicans have forgotten what they even stand for and will have nothing to build a platform upon post-Trump except pointless religiously-fueled social stances that continue to fade.

In the meantime, once out of office the indictments and lawsuits, be them for tax fraud or what have you, will flow, and Donald Trump will quite possibly go to prison. He won't be able to dye his skin or treat his hair, and he'll depart this world a disgraced fat little blob. It's going to be beautiful.
Last edited by winginit on Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:22 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


Will never accept that the nation didn't elect the president of their choice.


So the fact that crimes are being and have been committed by this administration means nothing?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
MSPNWA
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:12 am

seb146 wrote:
So the fact that crimes are being and have been committed by this administration means nothing?


Apparently not, at least that's what the Democrats are telling us with their words and actions. I can either take them at their word and deed (reversing the election), or believe them to be liars. Which do you choose?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:56 am

Neither because it’s a lamebrain fallacy. Abuse of power is a ‘high crime’ in the legal context of the founders’ time - and this is precisely what the Article II powers are for. Even if some GOP Congresspersons are right to say its debatable as to the impeachability of the WH enabling Rudy’s Ukraine scheming, the ensuing attempts to coverup and lie to the America people are violations of public trust and oath of office - those are political crimes that are certainly impeachable. And that’s still skimming the surface.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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SanDiegoLover
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:57 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
So the fact that crimes are being and have been committed by this administration means nothing?


Apparently not, at least that's what the Democrats are telling us with their words and actions. I can either take them at their word and deed (reversing the election), or believe them to be liars. Which do you choose?


It’s amusing that you can never answer a question straight forward. You have to pretend you misunderstood the question or it was about Biden, not Trump. You know you have no ground to stand on. You know Trump is an amoral crook, and everything you pretended you cared about. You have years of posts here at Anet, that you have now demonstrated you were blowing bs the whole time. You have zero morals. You only care about authoritarian control, only when your guy is in the WH.

You know you would have lost your ever loving mind if Obama in 2012 used foreign aid to bribe a country for dirt on Romney. Hell, you wanted Hilary locked up for not being responsive enough to a crime she didn’t commit. Now your openly saying you don’t care Trump is not only breaking the law, but undermining and endangering America’s security. You would have been screaming TREASON on every post you made.

In fact, you did even without Obama doing any of that. You whined about the Constitution and Obama “wasn’t your President”, and loved Fox News sponsored whistleblowers/soldiers, but now you can’t stand “treasonous” soldiers like Vindmann. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1209405

You also readily preached to others that the “wall was easy, and making Mexico pay for it a piece of cake”. What happened to that? You are demonstrably wrong as is your dear leader. viewtopic.php?t=1315021&start=450

You think Trump is honest, even though he’s told 14,000 provable lies, and Hillary isn’t locked up yet. viewtopic.php?t=1313685

Not to mention the endless whining about Democrats and Obama’s “tyranny”. You would know tyranny if it bit you on the arse. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1306267&p=18297631#p18297631

So answer the question that has been asked. You don’t care about laws at all, just so long as it fits with your views.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:37 am

MSPNWA wrote:
seb146 wrote:
So the fact that crimes are being and have been committed by this administration means nothing?


Apparently not, at least that's what the Democrats are telling us with their words and actions. I can either take them at their word and deed (reversing the election), or believe them to be liars. Which do you choose?


Crimes being committed by a sitting president (that was selected by a losing margin) have ZERO to do with reversing the outcome.

Recall that you Republicans wanted to impeach Hillary for years and years before she even decided to run. Based on nothing at all. Hatred does not count. There was no proof Hillary did anything against the law. REPUBLICAN law enforcers even said so.

Now, REPUBLICAN law enforcers say this current occupier of the White House say laws were broken.

But, yeah, go on and ignore what REPUBLICAN law enforcers say. As long as the MAGA king makes the laws, that is all that matters. It is you MAGA fans whining and crying an complaining about the outcome of the 2016 election. No one else. It speaks volumes about you MAGA fans.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:39 am

Tugger wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
seahawk wrote:
People are still following this kangaroo court - amazing.


Will never accept that the nation didn't elect the president of their choice.

I do laugh that some keep clinging to the idea that people are trying to "reverse" the election. Trump was elected by the vote of the people.


and two years later the same electorate went to the polls and gave democrats a quite impressive majority of the house. So "they elected him" is a bogus argument from the get go, they also set him up for being impeached if he keeps acting stupid/criminal. This is beyond the stupidity of saying someone wants to "undo" an election 3 plus years in. .....

best regards
Thomas
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tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:03 am

casinterest wrote:
Interesting Tidbit from Pew Research.

It seems the Republican party is much more in favor of a dictatorship than they were 3 years ago.


For dictatorship is a way too nice way of putting it, and pretty much puts lipstick on the reality: they are against the constitution.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:28 am

The impeachment hearings continued today with the Republicans abandoning any semblance of a law and order or constitutonal party, and with valid statements about the impeachment proceedings.

Trump put his own interests above the national interest, Nadler said. Trump asked a“foreign government to intervene in our elections, then got caught, then obstructed the investigators twice.”

“The constitution has a solution for a president who places his personal or political interests above those in the nation, the power of impeachment,” Nadler concluded.


The GOP's only defense so far is that there is " not enough evidence" to that, there is the charge of Obstruction of Justice.
" “I might just point out that one of the difficulties with asking for a more thorough investigation is that’s exactly what the House has tried to conduct here,” he said, “The president has refused to comply with subpoenas and other requests for documents.”



How can we have the "most transparent" adminstration that Trump promised if he won't release documents?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
BN747
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:35 am

tommy1808 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Interesting Tidbit from Pew Research.

It seems the Republican party is much more in favor of a dictatorship than they were 3 years ago.


For dictatorship is a way too nice way of putting it, and pretty much puts lipstick on the reality: they are against the constitution.

best regards
Thomas


Were that poll to be taken... it'd look like this,

Should trump be made ruler for life if it were allowed - results > Reps. 89% in favor vs Dems 90% against.

..that is called a cult, folks!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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seahawk
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:01 am

That is the problem, even if he would be impeached (which would need the Senate to go along) the damage done to the country will be lasting for a long time. The society has become more divided, the trust into government organisation has been eroded and the media turned into "fake news". This could be repaired if the Republicans would come up with a decent and humble leader, who would aim to reconcile society, but with the base driven into a MAGA frenzy, such person will never become the new leader. And to be honest I also do not see a Democrat with the strength to extend a hand and work together for the country either.
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:10 am

seahawk wrote:
That is the problem, even if he would be impeached (which would need the Senate to go along)


The Senate has nothing to do with Impeachment.

And to be honest I also do not see a Democrat with the strength to extend a hand and work together for the country either.


The Republicans would need to remember what the law is, and stop trying to invalidate the constitution before any serious discussion can start. They basically need to remove a bunch of people from the party, like all those unregistered foreign agents working for the FSB in Congress.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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seahawk
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:30 am

Third Step in the process: The Senate tries the accused. In the case of the impeachment of a president, the Chief Justice of the United States presides over the proceedings. Conviction in the Senate requires a two-thirds supermajority vote of those present. The result of conviction is removal from office.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:30 am

The Democrats may be right in proceeding with the impeachment. But they also have to consider the realities. I have the feeling the impeachment process is not helping them but is rather starting to help Trump.

Thus, if I were the Democrats I would stop here. I would tell the people „we have now shown what he has done in the Oval Office. Since we have elections soon we stop the process here and kindly ask the American people to make their decision during the election.“
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:35 am

seahawk wrote:
Third Step in the process: The Senate tries the accused..


At that time the president is alread impeached.

N14AZ wrote:
The Democrats may be right in proceeding with the impeachment. But they also have to consider the realities. I have the feeling the impeachment process is not helping them but is rather starting to help Trump.

Thus, if I were the Democrats I would stop here. I would tell the people „we have now shown what he has done in the Oval Office. Since we have elections soon we stop the process here and kindly ask the American people to make their decision during the election.“


Brilliant idea.... let's have the election that Russia is already meddling in (with Trump and the Senate doing nothing about it), while he is trying to solicitate interference from other countries to help him defraud the US again..... why not just print the ballots with the X already on them....

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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N14AZ
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:57 am

I knew you would not agree with my ideas. All the comments I read in the newspapers say that a successful impeachment is very unlikely. And at the same time voters get frustrated and will stay at home during the elections whereas every die-hard Trump supporter will do everything to vote for Trump. That’s a reality, despite all the legal aspects.

I like the German saying „the voter is not that stupid as you might think“
 
tommy1808
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:30 am

N14AZ wrote:
I like the German saying „the voter is not that stupid as you might think“


There is also "the voters is dumber than he thinks" ...... the voter can only make good choices if they have good information. Many Trump voters quite deliberately avoid any news outlet that could interfere with Spin they like. They are making themselves deliberately stupid. Now, of course you have people on the left that avoid getting information from anyone but Rachel Maddow as well, but the Democrats don´t run any criminal so that is rather inconsequential.
"Things will sort themselves out" did pretty much never worked to stop a nation from sliding into darkness, and the democrats are smack on right: If this President isn´t impeached, it essentially removes Impeachment from the constitution. A constitution being ignored is the essence of a Coup. Better for the Senate Republicans to overthrow the Constitution.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
petertenthije
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:26 am

N14AZ wrote:
Thus, if I were the Democrats I would stop here. I would tell the people „we have now shown what he has done in the Oval Office. Since we have elections soon we stop the process here and kindly ask the American people to make their decision during the election.“

This would only serve to give ammo to team MAGA.

They would say that the democrats stopped the impeachment because "the democrats don't believe they can win, therefor Trump is innocent #MAGA #winning".

Better to continue this. Sure they may loose the impeachment because of hardliners among the republicans. But at least this way the democrats will have done the right thing. And they can point to hardline republicans for putting party ahead of country. As with sports, sometimes participation is more important then winning. Better a noble defeat then a cowardly retreat.

Also, you would not want to set the precedent that if a president stalls enough time to get close to an election, that he can get away with everything.
Attamottamotta!
 
ltbewr
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:32 am

N14AZ wrote:
I knew you would not agree with my ideas. All the comments I read in the newspapers say that a successful impeachment is very unlikely. And at the same time voters get frustrated and will stay at home during the elections whereas every die-hard Trump supporter will do everything to vote for Trump. That’s a reality, despite all the legal aspects.

I like the German saying „the voter is not that stupid as you might think“


The Impeachment process vs. President Trump is for Democrats is a dammed if they do, dammed if they don't situation. If the Democrats do go after him, they risk being seen as wanting to reverse the 2016 election that Trump won via the Constitutional EC vote, seen as a 'do nothing but Impeachment' House (although have presented many bills to improve all Americans lives but get stopped by the Republican controlled Senate), and seen 'tax and spend' liberals. If they don't seek Impeachment, then they will not be doing their duty to curb the abuses of power Trump as President has done and to prevent future abuses from a President from either party.

One thing I fear is with Trump 'winning' the Impeachment trial vote, is that he will get re-elected and the Senate will continue to be in control of the Republicans, with a mandate to continue their extreme policies. There is as many commentators have noted, a huge divide in this country, perhaps the greatest since the late 1960's. Trump and Republicans won in 2016 in a backlash against Democratic party 'liberalism' in key areas and a weak Democratic party candidate in Hillary Clinton. The American voters can and do shift. In part we saw that with the House taken over by the Democratic Party in 2016, in a desire to balance the extremes of the Republican party and Trump. In part the Impeachment process is to encourage that shift in favor of the Democratic party candidates, but it may not work and as the quoted poster and others have noted, the 2020 election may end up discouraging many from voting at all. Unless there is a major, job killing recession by Spring of 2020, the power of Incumbency, the 'liberal' candidate the Democrats are likely to run, White voters racism and anti-liberal views will dominate our elections in 2020. By 2024 it is likely people will tire of the conservative policies, have faced a major recession, and vote in a more moderate to left Democratic party President. Then the cycle will continue in the future between the 2 parties.
 
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seahawk
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:06 am

If the Democrats would run a moderate candidate in 2024. Because they are also supporting more and more extreme candidates.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:08 pm

The MAGA fan base has already declared victory for 2020 because their dear leader is the most beloved of all time and space because someone said that is true. The MAGA base forgets that many independents actually read news that is not US based and see how the rest of the world is leaving us behind. Keep screaming MAGA. That's really all you have.

More importantly, did anyone else watch the Judiciary hearings? One Republican asked a few "whataboutism" questions to one witness. The other Republicans simply went on unhinged rants about debunked conspiracy theories and even ventured into name calling of Democrats. That's all they have. Name calling, conspiracy theories, and "whataboutism". No actual facts or proof to clear their chosen one.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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seahawk
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:43 pm

And this might be more than enough.
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: The Impeachment Hearings

Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:15 pm

seahawk wrote:
If the Democrats would run a moderate candidate in 2024. Because they are also supporting more and more extreme candidates.


You mean like Hillary Clinton or John Kerry....and look how that turned out. No thanks.

Sadly, because the Republican Party has skewed so far into wingnut territory, today merely left of center candidates get called “far left” by those voters who are never going to vote for the nominated Democrat anyway. Again, no thanks! Democrats always win when the turnout is large. In order to get a large turnout the Democrats need to run someone who excites the base and gets them to turnout.

It gets quite old when former Republicans, never Trumpers, and independents who may not vote for Trump but will never vote for the nominated Democrat because they will vote Libertarian or write in a candidate, pontificate on what Democrats need to do in order to earn their vote they are never going to give anyway. TV is filled with these pundits that have been behind every Republican push to the right.....until now. Fix your own party, and run a primary challenger, instead of insisting on Democrats to fix your situation.
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