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einsteinboricua
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:43 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Love it how the Trump haters need to rub in the tanking of the markets. I hope they stick around once this rebounds, in any case if anything can be deduced by this, this was to be expected

this was written by the end of January:

Market reactions to past virus scares show stocks may have more to lose

Published Tue, Jan 28 202012:38 PM ESTUpdated Tue, Jan 28 20202:53 PM EST


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/28/market- ... -lose.html

I thought this was the best economy ever. Surely an economy that's the best it's ever been would shrug off this...unless it's all hot air.

But then, it's easy to claim credit when things go your way, even if you had nothing to do with it. Now we're supposed to think that Trump had nothing to with this and that this is a drop due to external forces?

Talk about having your cake and eating it. if I didn't know any better this almost sounds like "please don't point out this because it's making Trump look bad".

All Trump has to do is acknowledged the impact and reassuring the public that the government is doing everything it can...but no. It's all about the numbers and the media and democrats making him look bad. Why would an investor be reassured by that?

You know what? Don't answer that.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:55 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Love it how the Trump haters need to rub in the tanking of the markets. I hope they stick around once this rebounds, in any case if anything can be deduced by this, this was to be expected

this was written by the end of January:

Market reactions to past virus scares show stocks may have more to lose

Published Tue, Jan 28 202012:38 PM ESTUpdated Tue, Jan 28 20202:53 PM EST


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/28/market- ... -lose.html

I thought this was the best economy ever. Surely an economy that's the best it's ever been would shrug off this...unless it's all hot air.

But then, it's easy to claim credit when things go your way, even if you had nothing to do with it. Now we're supposed to think that Trump had nothing to with this and that this is a drop due to external forces?

Talk about having your cake and eating it. if I didn't know any better this almost sounds like "please don't point out this because it's making Trump look bad".

All Trump has to do is acknowledged the impact and reassuring the public that the government is doing everything it can...but no. It's all about the numbers and the media and democrats making him look bad. Why would an investor be reassured by that?

You know what? Don't answer that.


Yeah I agree, the Trump administration handling of this could have been a lot better. But the finger pointing to the market crash on his response is overblown. If you had a chance to look at past health crisis, the market had taken hits also, no matter of who is in charge, be GWB or Obama.

So you think that airlines canceling, hotels canceling, supply chains being disrupted etc, is Trump's fault? the world economy is going to take a hit off from this virus. No mater if it was HRC in charge or Biden.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:56 pm

European markets entered bear market territory. The DJIA's official bear market level is 23,654. As of the time of writing, the lows of the day were about 200 points above that. We're currently at about 600 points from reaching that level. Assuming we close at the current levels, it only takes one more 600+ point loss to officially enter a bear market. Then the question will be how deep will that bear market go.
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northstardc4m
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:58 pm

anshabhi wrote:
What's the minimum price of crude that shale industry needs to survive?

Here in India, indexes and major stocks have entirely shed their gains over 2 years and are at exactly their March 2018 prices
For Athabasca it's between 45 and 60 depending on the operation.



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einsteinboricua
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:05 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
So you think that airlines canceling, hotels canceling, supply chains being disrupted etc, is Trump's fault? the world economy is going to take a hit off from this virus. No mater if it was HRC in charge or Biden.

Claim the rallies, own the falls.

He is, at the very least, indirectly responsible. As soon as Covid-19 began spreading from China, that was the moment to have a team ready to assess how to prevent the spread into the US. It was the moment to let experts do their thing. It was the moment to reassure the public that they're monitoring the situation (as opposed to dismissing it or attempting to politicize it by blaming the media or even using it to claim that you need a wall). Airlines were gonna cancel flights. Supply chains were gonna be disrupted. On that we agree. But the sell-offs could be contained if investors in the US think the impact will be minimal or if the government is ready to step in when needed.

Saying "we have 15 cases that will drop to zero" while cases and deaths are reported every day, and saying "it's a hoax" when people are dying is not reassuring anyone.

So again: he's not responsible for flight cancellations, supply chain disruptions, and oil price collapse, but he's not making things any better. His refusal to step aside and let experts deal with this is his own making and for that he bears some responsibility.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:12 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
So you think that airlines canceling, hotels canceling, supply chains being disrupted etc, is Trump's fault? the world economy is going to take a hit off from this virus. No mater if it was HRC in charge or Biden.

Claim the rallies, own the falls.

He is, at the very least, indirectly responsible. As soon as Covid-19 began spreading from China, that was the moment to have a team ready to assess how to prevent the spread into the US. It was the moment to let experts do their thing. It was the moment to reassure the public that they're monitoring the situation (as opposed to dismissing it or attempting to politicize it by blaming the media or even using it to claim that you need a wall). Airlines were gonna cancel flights. Supply chains were gonna be disrupted. On that we agree. But the sell-offs could be contained if investors in the US think the impact will be minimal or if the government is ready to step in when needed.

Saying "we have 15 cases that will drop to zero" while cases and deaths are reported every day, and saying "it's a hoax" when people are dying is not reassuring anyone.

So again: he's not responsible for flight cancellations, supply chain disruptions, and oil price collapse, but he's not making things any better. His refusal to step aside and let experts deal with this is his own making and for that he bears some responsibility.


European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed? https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/europea ... lumps.html

Or European markets beholden to the US administration actions too?

Look I understand you don't like Trump, I respect it, and I also agree they should have run things a bit better, but market tanking because of Trump's behavior, really? You folks have been saying for 3+ years Trump is a clear and present danger, is a threat, doesn't know what he is doing etc and markets have rallied for so long.

Lets put things into perspective here, and be less partisan at least to recognize that this is caused by a world health crisis, not by some random tweets from Trump.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
wingman
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:56 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Lets put things into perspective here, and be less partisan at least to recognize that this is caused by a world health crisis, not by some random tweets from Trump.


And that's why he said "claim the rallies, own the falls". Trump's a shit heel, he tries to do just one but not the other. He's the best "leader" ever, so show us your leadership qualities. Anyone looks great faking leadership during the good times, it's when things to straight to hell that you find out what people are truly made of. Now we get to sit here and watch yet another abject failure of basic personality from the same asshole that faked bone spurs to get out of Vietnam. The idiot couldn't beat the S&P 500 over 40 years after his daddy gave him $250M in play money. The only reason he still has a nickel is because he declared bankruptcy every time he could've worked his way through the problems. Trump's been bone spurring his way through life and now the rest of America that either missed the signs or just didn't give a crap because he gave them a tax break are going to realize that elections really do have consequences. You put a turd in charge you get turd results.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:16 pm

bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Love it how the Trump haters need to rub in the tanking of the markets. I hope they stick around once this rebounds, in any case if anything can be deduced by this, this was to be expected

this was written by the end of January:

Market reactions to past virus scares show stocks may have more to lose

Published Tue, Jan 28 202012:38 PM ESTUpdated Tue, Jan 28 20202:53 PM EST


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/28/market- ... -lose.html


You mean stick around like the OP who has gone AWOL? :rotfl:
Interesting that we’re hearing crickets from GalaxyFlyer who was more than happy to give Trump credit when this thread was started, but seems to have scuttled off and hidden when the sh*t hits the fan.

You can’t have it both ways.


Just like how the 2001 post 9/11 sell off wasnt Bush's fault or the 2008 housing bubble crash wasn't Obama's, so too is this unrelated to anything Trump has done.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:19 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed?


“When America sneezes, the World catches a cold”
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:31 pm

Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed?


“When America sneezes, the World catches a cold”


Really? I thought in this case is the other way around, Europe is distributing the virus everywhere, something China hadn't done entirely. Because of the European's incompetence, it is why we are in this situation now. The US has to cleanup after Europe's mess and pay the price... again.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
bgm
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:39 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed?


“When America sneezes, the World catches a cold”


Really? I thought in this case is the other way around, Europe is distributing the virus everywhere, something China hadn't done entirely. Because of the European's incompetence, it is why we are in this situation now. The US has to cleanup after Europe's mess and pay the price... again.


Um, look at your own country's refusal to even test people and get back to us about incompetence. Remember that Trump fired the pandemic response team in 2018. How's that working out? Also, remember that in the US, because you have no universal healthcare and no mandatory sick leave, you're going to have people with this virus coming to work. Think about that. Doesn't that make you feel better?

p.s. That's a cheap shot re: WW2. And very tacky. But coming from a Trump supporter, I'm not surprised in the slightest.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:50 pm

bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:

“When America sneezes, the World catches a cold”


Really? I thought in this case is the other way around, Europe is distributing the virus everywhere, something China hadn't done entirely. Because of the European's incompetence, it is why we are in this situation now. The US has to cleanup after Europe's mess and pay the price... again.


Um, look at your own country's refusal to even test people and get back to us about incompetence. Remember that Trump fired the pandemic response team in 2018. How's that working out? Also, remember that in the US, because you have no universal healthcare and mandatory sick leave, you're going to have people with this virus coming to work. Think about that. Doesn't that make you feel better?

p.s. That's a cheap shot re: WW2. And very tacky. But coming from a Trump supporter, I'm not surprised in the slightest.


Yes, 'universal healthcare' its doing great for Italy right now. As for cases in the US, its sitting at around 600 presently, whereas in Europe you got more than 15K. You guys handled it much better than Trump for sure, and look at where you at?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:52 pm

Some folks here should be hired by the US men's soccer team. They way they move goal posts, maybe the US team can win a FIFA Cup.

trpmb6 wrote:
Just like how the 2001 post 9/11 sell off wasnt Bush's fault or the 2008 housing bubble crash wasn't Obama's, so too is this unrelated to anything Trump has done.

Unless Bush and Obama were claiming that they were responsible for the market up until it crashed (impossible for Obama and highly unlikely for Bush), that's a consequence of basing your success on the stock market. If it goes up and you claim it as evidence of how well you're doing, it's only logical that if it collapses, it shows you're doing something wrong. In this case, his actions speak for himself.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
bgm
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:19 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Really? I thought in this case is the other way around, Europe is distributing the virus everywhere, something China hadn't done entirely. Because of the European's incompetence, it is why we are in this situation now. The US has to cleanup after Europe's mess and pay the price... again.


Um, look at your own country's refusal to even test people and get back to us about incompetence. Remember that Trump fired the pandemic response team in 2018. How's that working out? Also, remember that in the US, because you have no universal healthcare and mandatory sick leave, you're going to have people with this virus coming to work. Think about that. Doesn't that make you feel better?

p.s. That's a cheap shot re: WW2. And very tacky. But coming from a Trump supporter, I'm not surprised in the slightest.


Yes, 'universal healthcare' its doing great for Italy right now. As for cases in the US, its sitting at around 600 presently, whereas in Europe you got more than 15K. You guys handled it much better than Trump for sure, and look at where you at?


Again, given the difficulty in getting TESTED in the US, the official numbers vs reality are nowhere near the same. What do you think will happen when all these people, who have the virus, cannot afford to get tested, let alone treated, go to work because they don't have any sick leave, and then spread it around like wildfire? Hint: it's going to make Italy look like a drop in the ocean.
 
bgm
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:20 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Some folks here should be hired by the US men's soccer team. They way they move goal posts, maybe the US team can win a FIFA Cup.

trpmb6 wrote:
Just like how the 2001 post 9/11 sell off wasnt Bush's fault or the 2008 housing bubble crash wasn't Obama's, so too is this unrelated to anything Trump has done.

Unless Bush and Obama were claiming that they were responsible for the market up until it crashed (impossible for Obama and highly unlikely for Bush), that's a consequence of basing your success on the stock market. If it goes up and you claim it as evidence of how well you're doing, it's only logical that if it collapses, it shows you're doing something wrong. In this case, his actions speak for himself.


Welcome to dystopian Trumpism.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:23 pm

bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:

Um, look at your own country's refusal to even test people and get back to us about incompetence. Remember that Trump fired the pandemic response team in 2018. How's that working out? Also, remember that in the US, because you have no universal healthcare and mandatory sick leave, you're going to have people with this virus coming to work. Think about that. Doesn't that make you feel better?

p.s. That's a cheap shot re: WW2. And very tacky. But coming from a Trump supporter, I'm not surprised in the slightest.


Yes, 'universal healthcare' its doing great for Italy right now. As for cases in the US, its sitting at around 600 presently, whereas in Europe you got more than 15K. You guys handled it much better than Trump for sure, and look at where you at?


Again, given the difficulty in getting TESTED in the US, the official numbers vs reality are nowhere near the same. What do you think will happen when all these people, who have the virus, cannot afford to get tested, let alone treated, go to work because they don't have any sick leave, and then spread it around like wildfire? Hint: it's going to make Italy look like a drop in the ocean.


Newsflash, testing for coronavirus is free by the CDC. And anyone tested who is positive, will be forced to self-quarantine. Stop speculating about the facts.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Tugger
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:36 pm

This thread began with:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Oh, it is Trump’s economy and no Dem is gonna give credit there.

So Trump supporters completely believe this crash is also Trump's to claim....

Yeah, I doubt that. The TDS is too strong within most to allow that.

Basically Trump was an idiot to try and claim credit, it would be like a ship captain taking credit for the great weather and easy sailing they had and saying: "I am a god on this ocean and it obeys me!" Yeah, right. No sailor will ever say that and no president should try and "claim" an economy as Trump and his TDS supporters have.

The simple truth is that this will recover at some point, and the market will do better. I don't know when that will be but it won't be at the command of the president or any one person. Right now all the investors, particularly the large active ones, are busy repositioning themselves to both protect themselves and improve what they see as their position within the market. That is different for so many investors that there can be no one solution. At some point things will stabilize and then sometime in the future three will be changes by the congress and statements and policies and prognostications by the administration, and the market will then again readjust.

This is how it works, and I am sure most all of you know this. Even the TDS people saying Trump himself "created" the great economy.... (with 3% economic growth and and 5% increase in the national debt)

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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wingman
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:36 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Just like how the 2001 post 9/11 sell off wasnt Bush's fault or the 2008 housing bubble crash wasn't Obama's, so too is this unrelated to anything Trump has done.


I'm not here to debate who owns what or who gets to claim credit for what..but did you just write "..or the 2008 housing bubble crash wasn't Obama's.."? You did and it says a lot of unfortunate things about you. Nevertheless, what really matters here is HOW a president responds to a crisis, how does he or she lead through turbulent times to keep fear at bay, be a beacon of sanity and hope, lay out a plan to help overcome? For a moment I'll play along with your cute fantasy that Obama owns the great housing bubble to the extent it might help me help you become a more rational humanoid..a thinking, thoughtful, dare I say even an intelligent one? Obama responded to that crisis, the worst financial crisis to hit the global economy in 80+ years, and handed off to Trump what turned out to be the stage for one of the greatest economic runs in history. You can hug yourself all day fantasizing that Obama "owns" the 2008 Great Recession, but man, he sure owned 2009-2016. He showed us the way back.

Here's a series of tweets from your hero today as global markets started tanking on the Coronavirus and a new oil crisis was born:


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, “The risk is low to the average American.”
65.1K
4:20 AM - Mar 9, 2020

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
Cryin’ Chuck Schumer said, “You will pay the price for this. You won’t know what HIT YOU.” That is far beyond simple rhetoric. That is a physical threat, or at least a threat that you better vote for us.” Trouble ahead!

57.2K
4:24 AM - Mar 9, 2020

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
Elizabeth “Pocahontas” Warren singlehandedly destroyed the Bernie Sanders campaign by stripping voters away from his count on Super T. He lost states that he easily would have won if she had dropped out 3 days earlier. The DNC is doing it to Bernie again! Will he ever get angry?
67.9K
4:30 AM - Mar 9, 2020

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
Now the Democrats are trying to smear Bernie with Russia, Russia, Russia. They are driving him Crazy!
40.8K
4:33 AM - Mar 9, 2020


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
“Trump has outmastered the Deep State. He’s light years ahead of us.” MSDNC. I disagree. We have a long way to go. There are still some very bad, sick people in our government - people who do not love our Country (In fact, they hate our Country!).
57.1K
4:39 AM - Mar 9, 2020

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
The Obama/Biden Administration is the most corrupt Administration in the history of our Country!
118K
4:40 AM - Mar 9, 2020


Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
Great job being done by the @VP and the CoronaVirus Task Force. Thank you!
50.4K
6:11 AM - Mar 9, 2020

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
The BEST decision made was the toughest of them all - which saved many lives. Our VERY early decision to stop travel to and from certain parts of the world!
76K
6:16 AM - Mar 9, 2020

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
So much FAKE NEWS!
89.8K
6:17 AM - Mar 9, 2020

Today's epic tantrum, on a stand-alone basis over the course off a single morning, guarantees that Trump will go down as the worst President in our history. He is a failure of man, husband, father, leader..he is simply filth.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8703
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:13 pm

Aaaaand down 2023 points. Easily the largest single point drop for the index (beating the now second largest drop by over 800 points).

With this, the top 10 losses for the index have all happened under Trump's watch (5 in the past two months). Out of the top 20, only 5 were not under him:
-Four of those were related to the 2008 crashes
-Number 16 on the list is the first trading day after 9/11, when the index dropped 684 points.

And today's losses, percentage wise, place it as the 11th largest drop for the index.

#SoMuchWinningMyHeadIsSpinning

Futures this evening should be interesting. Maybe a rebound from people attempting to buy the dip? More selling as the 10yr rallies?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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casinterest
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:22 pm

Tugger wrote:
This thread began with:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Oh, it is Trump’s economy and no Dem is gonna give credit there.

So Trump supporters completely believe this crash is also Trump's to claim....

Yeah, I doubt that. The TDS is too strong within most to allow that.

Basically Trump was an idiot to try and claim credit, it would be like a ship captain taking credit for the great weather and easy sailing they had and saying: "I am a god on this ocean and it obeys me!" Yeah, right. No sailor will ever say that and no president should try and "claim" an economy as Trump and his TDS supporters have.

The simple truth is that this will recover at some point, and the market will do better. I don't know when that will be but it won't be at the command of the president or any one person. Right now all the investors, particularly the large active ones, are busy repositioning themselves to both protect themselves and improve what they see as their position within the market. That is different for so many investors that there can be no one solution. At some point things will stabilize and then sometime in the future three will be changes by the congress and statements and policies and prognostications by the administration, and the market will then again readjust.

This is how it works, and I am sure most all of you know this. Even the TDS people saying Trump himself "created" the great economy.... (with 3% economic growth and and 5% increase in the national debt)

Tugg


To continue with the seas analogy, this is Trump's Titanic. Whether the crew can get everyone to the lifeboats is questionable with a leader that still doesn't believe he has hit an iceberg.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
bgm
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:41 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yes, 'universal healthcare' its doing great for Italy right now. As for cases in the US, its sitting at around 600 presently, whereas in Europe you got more than 15K. You guys handled it much better than Trump for sure, and look at where you at?


Again, given the difficulty in getting TESTED in the US, the official numbers vs reality are nowhere near the same. What do you think will happen when all these people, who have the virus, cannot afford to get tested, let alone treated, go to work because they don't have any sick leave, and then spread it around like wildfire? Hint: it's going to make Italy look like a drop in the ocean.


Newsflash, testing for coronavirus is free by the CDC. And anyone tested who is positive, will be forced to self-quarantine. Stop speculating about the facts.


Newsflash. Someone earning minimum wage is not going to get tested if they know they'll be placed into 2 week quarantine without pay. That person will go into work, sick, and spread it because they need to pay the bills. Another thing to consider: that person who has it, may typically be younger and have milder symptoms, but will pass it onto someone older, or with underlying health issues and the virus may kill them.

This is what happens when you don't have mandatory sick leave.
 
KFTG
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:53 pm

Still no GalaxyFlyer? SAD!
I'm getting tired of all the winning!
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1396
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:53 pm

bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:

Again, given the difficulty in getting TESTED in the US, the official numbers vs reality are nowhere near the same. What do you think will happen when all these people, who have the virus, cannot afford to get tested, let alone treated, go to work because they don't have any sick leave, and then spread it around like wildfire? Hint: it's going to make Italy look like a drop in the ocean.


Newsflash, testing for coronavirus is free by the CDC. And anyone tested who is positive, will be forced to self-quarantine. Stop speculating about the facts.


Newsflash. Someone earning minimum wage is not going to get tested if they know they'll be placed into 2 week quarantine without pay. That person will go into work, sick, and spread it because they need to pay the bills. Another thing to consider: that person who has it, may typically be younger and have milder symptoms, but will pass it onto someone older, or with underlying health issues and the virus may kill them.

This is what happens when you don't have mandatory sick leave.


You are just pushing your agenda and beliefs based on basically nothing but baseless opinions. Can't see how a granny working at the local grocery store coughing and pretty sick will be allowed to stay on the current conditions, will be basically criminal to let her work. That's just common sense.

Continue to press for your narratives and your views but at least based on facts not innuendo or suppositions that are completely false and baseless.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
jetwet1
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:28 pm

trpmb6 wrote:

Just like how the 2001 post 9/11 sell off wasnt Bush's fault or the 2008 housing bubble crash wasn't Obama's, so too is this unrelated to anything Trump has done.


Obama got sworn into office Jany 9th 2009, so you are correct, the housing crash in 2008 had nothing to do with Obama, that was was squarely on Bush II

I actually looked at the market a couple of times today and wondered if it was going to bottom out at 24k, tomorrow will be interesting, i'm expecting to see a slight up tick to start the day, then a gradual slide, then question in my mind is if it will gather momentum, if it does and the herd starts charging it's going to get messy very quickly.

Tugger wrote:


Basically Trump was an idiot to try and claim credit, it would be like a ship captain taking credit for the great weather and easy sailing they had and saying: "I am a god on this ocean and it obeys me!" Yeah, right. No sailor will ever say that and no president should try and "claim" an economy as Trump and his TDS supporters have.

Tugg


No Tugger, you are 100 % wrong on this, he was correct to claim credit for this economy and he will deflect and criticism for this crash and get away with because, to put it simply, a percentage of our population will follow him to the brink, and then jump off if need be, it's amazing how blind some people are to his failings, but a cult is a cult and Trump has the biggest cult by far.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:12 am

jetwet1 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Just like how the 2001 post 9/11 sell off wasnt Bush's fault or the 2008 housing bubble crash wasn't Obama's, so too is this unrelated to anything Trump has done.


Obama got sworn into office Jany 9th 2009, so you are correct, the housing crash in 2008 had nothing to do with Obama, that was was squarely on Bush II



Yall are so blinded by partisanship that you couldn't even see that I was bashing republicans and the right. The right continually claims that Obama owned the "sluggish" economy post Lehman brothers collapse.

Still everyone said electing Trump would tank the economy. It didn't. Everyone said the tax cuts would tank the economy. It didn't. It took a virus out of everyone's control to do it. Truth be told the market was just itching for a reason. As I said before.

Expect a dead cat bounce tomorrow, followed by selling at the end of the day.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:03 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
So you think that airlines canceling, hotels canceling, supply chains being disrupted etc, is Trump's fault? the world economy is going to take a hit off from this virus. No mater if it was HRC in charge or Biden.

Claim the rallies, own the falls.

He is, at the very least, indirectly responsible. As soon as Covid-19 began spreading from China, that was the moment to have a team ready to assess how to prevent the spread into the US. It was the moment to let experts do their thing. It was the moment to reassure the public that they're monitoring the situation (as opposed to dismissing it or attempting to politicize it by blaming the media or even using it to claim that you need a wall). Airlines were gonna cancel flights. Supply chains were gonna be disrupted. On that we agree. But the sell-offs could be contained if investors in the US think the impact will be minimal or if the government is ready to step in when needed.

Saying "we have 15 cases that will drop to zero" while cases and deaths are reported every day, and saying "it's a hoax" when people are dying is not reassuring anyone.

So again: he's not responsible for flight cancellations, supply chain disruptions, and oil price collapse, but he's not making things any better. His refusal to step aside and let experts deal with this is his own making and for that he bears some responsibility.


Disagree. Hear me out. A shutdown of the world economy will cost roughly 10 million deaths, mainly poor people you'll never hear of. This is a similar situation to the one facing Pennsylvania governor and Jimmy Carter during Three Mile Island. The accident, which was quite dangerous and scary, killed 0-3 people. The ensuing panic of a desperate evacuation could have killed 1,000s. The very smart governor and president were quite slow to issue desperate warnings for this reason. And they were right to slow it down.

Specialist scientists do not necessarily know all the workings of the global economy that keeps people fed and healthy. Messing it up is a compromise that should only be used in the worst emergencies. We're getting there now, but not there yet. 5,000 deaths is very unfortunate but nothing unusual in this world. 500,000 deaths may come. If it is 50 million, yes, it justifies extreme measures to prevent and treat, a "war" if you will. But if this goes away at 25,000 fly deaths, it has been only a minor increase to the typical flu season, an unfortunate situation but nothing much we could do differently.
 
BN747
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:54 am

...from the Horse's Mouth..


Image

...he asked for it.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:13 am

This is so sad, it is sickening and I agree he asked for it big time.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Slug71
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:18 am

trpmb6 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

Just like how the 2001 post 9/11 sell off wasnt Bush's fault or the 2008 housing bubble crash wasn't Obama's, so too is this unrelated to anything Trump has done.


Obama got sworn into office Jany 9th 2009, so you are correct, the housing crash in 2008 had nothing to do with Obama, that was was squarely on Bush II



Yall are so blinded by partisanship that you couldn't even see that I was bashing republicans and the right. The right continually claims that Obama owned the "sluggish" economy post Lehman brothers collapse.

Still everyone said electing Trump would tank the economy. It didn't. Everyone said the tax cuts would tank the economy. It didn't. It took a virus out of everyone's control to do it. Truth be told the market was just itching for a reason. As I said before.

Expect a dead cat bounce tomorrow, followed by selling at the end of the day.


The sad part is that there are plenty of reports saying that most people, this is nothing more than an average cold. It's bad for people with poor respiratory and immune system problems, most affecting elderly people. Sure there is reason for concern, but this hysteria and panic is ridiculous.

Doesn't bother me much though. I only just bought my first stocks a few weeks ago. And didn't buy much, so my loss is tangible. Ill definitely be investing when we get to the bottom. American Airlines and JetBlue, even Alaska, look pretty good now. But it's not over.
Trivago looks good too.

I need to look at some shale ones.

WarRI1 wrote:
This is so sad, it is sickening and I agree he asked for it big time.


Thank the media.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:24 am

Instead of UA stock I got some Carnival stock. Maybe they're not at the bottom, maybe they are, but they surely will go up a good amount sometime in the mid future. Surely!


I think it's unfair to pin this all or mostly on Trump. Yes, of course he has a lot of sway and his actions have consequences, but I'd say this is largely not his fault. BUT... I don't think he can take credit for the booming economy either. Can't have it both ways.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:31 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Instead of UA stock I got some Carnival stock. Maybe they're not at the bottom, maybe they are, but they surely will go up a good amount sometime in the mid future. Surely!.


Funny I was just talking to my advisor about buying up CCL... as they have shareholder perks for cruising. However he said he would wait a little longer, they likely are not bottomed out yet, but yes the outlook for them (for now at least) is good over the longer term, they have enough cash to stay out of liquidation for a good while, though a Chapter 14 filing is possible.

I will never buy an airline stock... ever... well maybe single shares as nostalgic things or somesuch but never as investments.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:31 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Instead of UA stock I got some Carnival stock. Maybe they're not at the bottom, maybe they are, but they surely will go up a good amount sometime in the mid future. Surely!


I think it's unfair to pin this all or mostly on Trump. Yes, of course he has a lot of sway and his actions have consequences, but I'd say this is largely not his fault. BUT... I don't think he can take credit for the booming economy either. Can't have it both ways.


I agree, he cannot take credit for the economy as he has tried to do from the beginning. I also agree we cannot blame trump for the virus, but his handling leaves something to be desired. His bragging always gets is the way. If one person dies, it is too many, especially if it is from your family, so to minimize it is very sad. The constant comparing of the death toll to flu is ridiculous.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:41 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
So you think that airlines canceling, hotels canceling, supply chains being disrupted etc, is Trump's fault? the world economy is going to take a hit off from this virus. No mater if it was HRC in charge or Biden.

Claim the rallies, own the falls.

He is, at the very least, indirectly responsible. As soon as Covid-19 began spreading from China, that was the moment to have a team ready to assess how to prevent the spread into the US. It was the moment to let experts do their thing. It was the moment to reassure the public that they're monitoring the situation (as opposed to dismissing it or attempting to politicize it by blaming the media or even using it to claim that you need a wall). Airlines were gonna cancel flights. Supply chains were gonna be disrupted. On that we agree. But the sell-offs could be contained if investors in the US think the impact will be minimal or if the government is ready to step in when needed.

Saying "we have 15 cases that will drop to zero" while cases and deaths are reported every day, and saying "it's a hoax" when people are dying is not reassuring anyone.

So again: he's not responsible for flight cancellations, supply chain disruptions, and oil price collapse, but he's not making things any better. His refusal to step aside and let experts deal with this is his own making and for that he bears some responsibility.


European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed? https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/europea ... lumps.html

Or European markets beholden to the US administration actions too?

Look I understand you don't like Trump, I respect it, and I also agree they should have run things a bit better, but market tanking because of Trump's behavior, really? You folks have been saying for 3+ years Trump is a clear and present danger, is a threat, doesn't know what he is doing etc and markets have rallied for so long.

Lets put things into perspective here, and be less partisan at least to recognize that this is caused by a world health crisis, not by some random tweets from Trump.



The virus is not Trump's fault. I hope to God he changes his narrative though because until the people who respect his words are told to take precautions both the virus and the fallout from it (including the markets) won't be contained. This is a task that requires a team effort, we need everyone on board and on the same page. We need to stop the bleeding and we need Trump to tell his folks we have a problem and we need to deal with it as a nation. Because I know Trump knows this is a bigger problem than he's making it out to be. He's a self proclaimed germaphobe.
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trpmb6
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:24 am

Jouhou wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Claim the rallies, own the falls.

He is, at the very least, indirectly responsible. As soon as Covid-19 began spreading from China, that was the moment to have a team ready to assess how to prevent the spread into the US. It was the moment to let experts do their thing. It was the moment to reassure the public that they're monitoring the situation (as opposed to dismissing it or attempting to politicize it by blaming the media or even using it to claim that you need a wall). Airlines were gonna cancel flights. Supply chains were gonna be disrupted. On that we agree. But the sell-offs could be contained if investors in the US think the impact will be minimal or if the government is ready to step in when needed.

Saying "we have 15 cases that will drop to zero" while cases and deaths are reported every day, and saying "it's a hoax" when people are dying is not reassuring anyone.

So again: he's not responsible for flight cancellations, supply chain disruptions, and oil price collapse, but he's not making things any better. His refusal to step aside and let experts deal with this is his own making and for that he bears some responsibility.


European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed? https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/europea ... lumps.html

Or European markets beholden to the US administration actions too?

Look I understand you don't like Trump, I respect it, and I also agree they should have run things a bit better, but market tanking because of Trump's behavior, really? You folks have been saying for 3+ years Trump is a clear and present danger, is a threat, doesn't know what he is doing etc and markets have rallied for so long.

Lets put things into perspective here, and be less partisan at least to recognize that this is caused by a world health crisis, not by some random tweets from Trump.



The virus is not Trump's fault. I hope to God he changes his narrative though because until the people who respect his words are told to take precautions both the virus and the fallout from it (including the markets) won't be contained. This is a task that requires a team effort, we need everyone on board and on the same page. We need to stop the bleeding and we need Trump to tell his folks we have a problem and we need to deal with it as a nation. Because I know Trump knows this is a bigger problem than he's making it out to be. He's a self proclaimed germaphobe.


I agree but if he comes out and sets off a panic the folks here will be clamoring for his resignation. He is trying to keep things stable.

Meanwhile bernie came out today saying he would have kept all the borders open and not enacted xenophobic policies banning travel.
 
wingman
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:33 am

So reading the morning tweets I posted you claim that as evidence he’s trying to keep things “stable”...as in his genius? Jesus Christ trpmd6, do you smoke crack cocaine? There’s nothing stable about him whatsoever. The essential question now is leadership in times of need, no one is accusing Trump of starting the virus, but what they’re demanding is the bestest ever leadership this twat you voted for promised he had ingrained in his DNA. Sadly and tragically lacking in all required dimensions. Absolutely disgusting and pathetic.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:35 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed? https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/europea ... lumps.html

Or European markets beholden to the US administration actions too?

Look I understand you don't like Trump, I respect it, and I also agree they should have run things a bit better, but market tanking because of Trump's behavior, really? You folks have been saying for 3+ years Trump is a clear and present danger, is a threat, doesn't know what he is doing etc and markets have rallied for so long.

Lets put things into perspective here, and be less partisan at least to recognize that this is caused by a world health crisis, not by some random tweets from Trump.



The virus is not Trump's fault. I hope to God he changes his narrative though because until the people who respect his words are told to take precautions both the virus and the fallout from it (including the markets) won't be contained. This is a task that requires a team effort, we need everyone on board and on the same page. We need to stop the bleeding and we need Trump to tell his folks we have a problem and we need to deal with it as a nation. Because I know Trump knows this is a bigger problem than he's making it out to be. He's a self proclaimed germaphobe.


I agree but if he comes out and sets off a panic the folks here will be clamoring for his resignation. He is trying to keep things stable.

Meanwhile bernie came out today saying he would have kept all the borders open and not enacted xenophobic policies banning travel.


The way to prevent panic is by stating clear factual knowns and unknowns and outlining clear plans of action with designated SMEs. Make empathetic statements like ‘it is natural to worry if you have elderly relatives - ensure they are taking all possible precautions’ etc. Crisis PR 101. So far the WH has made comments counter to what SMEs are saying and has put limits on what they can say, and have pointed fingers while emphasizing only positive news - that’s why both investors and the public feel unease. Government should act like a steady rock of dispassionate analysis and decisionmaking in events like these.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:35 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed? https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/europea ... lumps.html

Or European markets beholden to the US administration actions too?

Look I understand you don't like Trump, I respect it, and I also agree they should have run things a bit better, but market tanking because of Trump's behavior, really? You folks have been saying for 3+ years Trump is a clear and present danger, is a threat, doesn't know what he is doing etc and markets have rallied for so long.

Lets put things into perspective here, and be less partisan at least to recognize that this is caused by a world health crisis, not by some random tweets from Trump.



The virus is not Trump's fault. I hope to God he changes his narrative though because until the people who respect his words are told to take precautions both the virus and the fallout from it (including the markets) won't be contained. This is a task that requires a team effort, we need everyone on board and on the same page. We need to stop the bleeding and we need Trump to tell his folks we have a problem and we need to deal with it as a nation. Because I know Trump knows this is a bigger problem than he's making it out to be. He's a self proclaimed germaphobe.


I agree but if he comes out and sets off a panic the folks here will be clamoring for his resignation. He is trying to keep things stable.

Meanwhile bernie came out today saying he would have kept all the borders open and not enacted xenophobic policies banning travel.


But he can find a balance, like tell people of they don't work to stay clean and minimize contact THEN things will get bad. Hell, he should tell them if they work hard enough to defeat the virus the markets will rebound and he will win re-election. Harness that partisan energy to do good for the country.

I'm gonna have to say, the travel restrictions would have worked better if we had also sampled our internal population and tested all along. Instead we knew it was spreading silently in the community and... ignored it. Too late now. We need to just focus on playing some serious catch-up.
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Aaron747
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:37 am

Jouhou wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:


The virus is not Trump's fault. I hope to God he changes his narrative though because until the people who respect his words are told to take precautions both the virus and the fallout from it (including the markets) won't be contained. This is a task that requires a team effort, we need everyone on board and on the same page. We need to stop the bleeding and we need Trump to tell his folks we have a problem and we need to deal with it as a nation. Because I know Trump knows this is a bigger problem than he's making it out to be. He's a self proclaimed germaphobe.


I agree but if he comes out and sets off a panic the folks here will be clamoring for his resignation. He is trying to keep things stable.

Meanwhile bernie came out today saying he would have kept all the borders open and not enacted xenophobic policies banning travel.


But he can find a balance, like tell people of they don't work to stay clean and minimize contact THEN things will get bad. Hell, he should tell them if they work hard enough to defeat the virus the markets will rebound and he will win re-election. Harness that partisan energy to do good for the country.

I'm gonna have to say, the travel restrictions would have worked better if we had also sampled our internal population and tested all along. Instead we knew it was spreading silently in the community and... ignored it. Too late now. We need to just focus on playing some serious catch-up.


“Actions before a pandemic will always seem alarmist - actions after will always be judged inadequate.” Logic suggests it’s always better not to be accused of the latter.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:55 am

northstardc4m wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Instead of UA stock I got some Carnival stock. Maybe they're not at the bottom, maybe they are, but they surely will go up a good amount sometime in the mid future. Surely!.


Funny I was just talking to my advisor about buying up CCL... as they have shareholder perks for cruising. However he said he would wait a little longer, they likely are not bottomed out yet, but yes the outlook for them (for now at least) is good over the longer term, they have enough cash to stay out of liquidation for a good while, though a Chapter 14 filing is possible.

I will never buy an airline stock... ever... well maybe single shares as nostalgic things or somesuch but never as investments.

A valid concern, I thought of that as well. I'm a noob at all of this honestly. I figure that I know (or at least am very very sure) this will go up even if it goes down first, and if it tumbles even more I may buy more. It already lost 10% since I bought it earlier today lol

I largely invest in index funds. Hurts to keep loosing 5 figures every few days but I'll just weather it and buy even more low.

Anyone else doing investing? I of course do not wish for the economy to suffer but the one good thing about it is I can finally invest a lot of this money I've been sitting on waiting for the next downturn
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:14 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Instead of UA stock I got some Carnival stock. Maybe they're not at the bottom, maybe they are, but they surely will go up a good amount sometime in the mid future. Surely!.


Funny I was just talking to my advisor about buying up CCL... as they have shareholder perks for cruising. However he said he would wait a little longer, they likely are not bottomed out yet, but yes the outlook for them (for now at least) is good over the longer term, they have enough cash to stay out of liquidation for a good while, though a Chapter 14 filing is possible.

I will never buy an airline stock... ever... well maybe single shares as nostalgic things or somesuch but never as investments.

A valid concern, I thought of that as well. I'm a noob at all of this honestly. I figure that I know (or at least am very very sure) this will go up even if it goes down first, and if it tumbles even more I may buy more. It already lost 10% since I bought it earlier today lol

I largely invest in index funds. Hurts to keep loosing 5 figures every few days but I'll just weather it and buy even more low.

Anyone else doing investing? I of course do not wish for the economy to suffer but the one good thing about it is I can finally invest a lot of this money I've been sitting on waiting for the next downturn


I've been camping on money for a downturn too. I'm only invested in REITs at the moment. This isn't over with yet though, I'm going to continue to sit on the sidelines.
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Slug71
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:05 am

Aaron747 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:


The virus is not Trump's fault. I hope to God he changes his narrative though because until the people who respect his words are told to take precautions both the virus and the fallout from it (including the markets) won't be contained. This is a task that requires a team effort, we need everyone on board and on the same page. We need to stop the bleeding and we need Trump to tell his folks we have a problem and we need to deal with it as a nation. Because I know Trump knows this is a bigger problem than he's making it out to be. He's a self proclaimed germaphobe.


I agree but if he comes out and sets off a panic the folks here will be clamoring for his resignation. He is trying to keep things stable.

Meanwhile bernie came out today saying he would have kept all the borders open and not enacted xenophobic policies banning travel.


The way to prevent panic is by stating clear factual knowns and unknowns and outlining clear plans of action with designated SMEs. Make empathetic statements like ‘it is natural to worry if you have elderly relatives - ensure they are taking all possible precautions’ etc. Crisis PR 101. So far the WH has made comments counter to what SMEs are saying and has put limits on what they can say, and have pointed fingers while emphasizing only positive news - that’s why both investors and the public feel unease. Government should act like a steady rock of dispassionate analysis and decisionmaking in events like these.


The media is already creating panic! Again, this virus doesn't affect majority of the population any more than the regular cold.
 
seat64k
Posts: 612
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:08 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
A valid concern, I thought of that as well. I'm a noob at all of this honestly. I figure that I know (or at least am very very sure) this will go up even if it goes down first, and if it tumbles even more I may buy more. It already lost 10% since I bought it earlier today lol

I largely invest in index funds. Hurts to keep loosing 5 figures every few days but I'll just weather it and buy even more low.

Anyone else doing investing? I of course do not wish for the economy to suffer but the one good thing about it is I can finally invest a lot of this money I've been sitting on waiting for the next downturn


As another poster said, I would never ever buy airline stock either. Airlines operate on razor thin margins, and are exposed to far too much risks that they have have little to no control over:
- exposure to fuel price - oil supply largely controlled by dictatorships who are happy to manipulate it to their einds. You can try to hedge, but as CX found out, that can burn you.
- over reliance on profoundly terrible industry standard software systems. I work in tech, in a prevrious role I worked with four different airlines. Honestly, I'm amazed it works at all.
- exposure to politicical issues
- exposure to regulatory actions - groundings can make airlines go out of business
- exposure to economic downturns.

Maybe, if the big ones that have proven themselves durable and entrenched in a wealthy market, also regularly pay good dividends, it would be worth it as part of an income portfolio, but even then I'd keep it small. Not that there isn't good growth in (some) airline stocks. UAL have done pretty well over the last decade. But so has the S&P500. And the difference is, if a constitutent of the S&P500 flames out and heads down, it falls out of the index and doesn't take your accumulated wealth with it. So it makes little sense to me to invest anything that I'm not willing to lose in a single stock.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:12 am

Slug71 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

I agree but if he comes out and sets off a panic the folks here will be clamoring for his resignation. He is trying to keep things stable.

Meanwhile bernie came out today saying he would have kept all the borders open and not enacted xenophobic policies banning travel.


The way to prevent panic is by stating clear factual knowns and unknowns and outlining clear plans of action with designated SMEs. Make empathetic statements like ‘it is natural to worry if you have elderly relatives - ensure they are taking all possible precautions’ etc. Crisis PR 101. So far the WH has made comments counter to what SMEs are saying and has put limits on what they can say, and have pointed fingers while emphasizing only positive news - that’s why both investors and the public feel unease. Government should act like a steady rock of dispassionate analysis and decisionmaking in events like these.


The media is already creating panic! Again, this virus doesn't affect majority of the population any more than the regular cold.


That is an unscientific statement - there are several major strains currently and they are continuing to evolve and mutate. It will be awhile yet before definitive comparisons to other infectious diseases can be made with accuracy.

As for the media - there will always be a range of reporting styles. That’s precisely why basic crisis PR requires the steps I mentioned. It is an established protocol taught in corporate/public communications programs everywhere - failing to follow basic PR steps will inevitably increase public panic. Being an apologist for poor management only allows incompetence to fester.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:13 am

Slug71 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

I agree but if he comes out and sets off a panic the folks here will be clamoring for his resignation. He is trying to keep things stable.

Meanwhile bernie came out today saying he would have kept all the borders open and not enacted xenophobic policies banning travel.


The way to prevent panic is by stating clear factual knowns and unknowns and outlining clear plans of action with designated SMEs. Make empathetic statements like ‘it is natural to worry if you have elderly relatives - ensure they are taking all possible precautions’ etc. Crisis PR 101. So far the WH has made comments counter to what SMEs are saying and has put limits on what they can say, and have pointed fingers while emphasizing only positive news - that’s why both investors and the public feel unease. Government should act like a steady rock of dispassionate analysis and decisionmaking in events like these.


The media is already creating panic! Again, this virus doesn't affect majority of the population any more than the regular cold.


"Mild" symptoms includes pneumonia that doesn't require a ventilator in order to stay alive. That's more than a little worse than a cold. Don't let it be downplayed, but you don't have to "panic" either. Just take precautions like there's an invisible menace you have to protect yourself against with good hygiene. Because there is.
情報
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14629
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:16 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
So again: he's not responsible for flight cancellations, supply chain disruptions, and oil price collapse, but he's not making things any better. His refusal to step aside and let experts deal with this is his own making and for that he bears some responsibility.


would the same amount of customer chose not to fly if they had any reason to trust the current admin? Probably yes..... Airlines cancelled flights because people didn´t fly.

Since Trump went in denial mode around the 20th last month, the USD is dropping vs. the EUR.... despite us having multiple times the infected.... so, yeah.... he does make a difference to the detriment of the US economy, and most importantly trust in that economy.

I guess Germany is going to tender off some bonds at negative interest rate again :)

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14631
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:01 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
European stock markets have entered bear market territory, is it because their politicians? their administrators also failed?


“When America sneezes, the World catches a cold”


Really? I thought in this case is the other way around, Europe is distributing the virus everywhere, something China hadn't done entirely. Because of the European's incompetence, it is why we are in this situation now. The US has to cleanup after Europe's mess and pay the price... again.


I'm only talking about the stock market (that's all that matters anyway, right ?). For better or worse, all world stock markets are affected by the US one, while the reverse isn't true. In France the CAC40 is in bear market territory, but if the DOW (S&P is a better indicator I hear) recovered a bit, the CAC would probably go up again.

How many Chinese-American people came back from China to the US West Coast ? Are you really sure they weren't carrying the virus ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3620
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:08 am

Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:05 am

BN747 wrote:
...from the Horse's Mouth..


Image

...he asked for it.

BN747


Cute, but fake. Others have fallen for it too. ;)

MSNBC's Joe Scarborough falls for old fake Trump tweet calling to punish sitting POTUS for major Dow drop
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
BN747
Posts: 7934
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:07 am

KFLLCFII wrote:
BN747 wrote:
...from the Horse's Mouth..


Image

...he asked for it.

BN747


Cute, but fake. Others have fallen for it too. ;)

MSNBC's Joe Scarborough falls for old fake Trump tweet calling to punish sitting POTUS for major Dow drop


Good catch! I missed that segment of Joe for sure.

For non-lying 'normal' people, an apology would be in order..but given the target is widely known for calling everything in reality 'fake', he has earned all the 'fake' that comes his way.
'Fake', against him is fair game and open season since he uses his 'fake' claims on anything not nailed down.

He has long since past the point of common civility and decency while going full throttle in despicable conduct toward millions.

He has not apologized for or to anyone for all of his 'fake' branding, for years, of everything in sight.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14631
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:09 am

Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:

“When America sneezes, the World catches a cold”


Really? I thought in this case is the other way around, Europe is distributing the virus everywhere, something China hadn't done entirely. Because of the European's incompetence, it is why we are in this situation now. The US has to cleanup after Europe's mess and pay the price... again.


I'm only talking about the stock market (that's all that matters anyway, right ?). For better or worse, all world stock markets are affected by the US one, while the reverse isn't true. In France the CAC40 is in bear market territory, but if the DOW (S&P is a better indicator I hear) recovered a bit, the CAC would probably go up again.

How many Chinese-American people came back from China to the US West Coast ? Are you really sure they weren't carrying the virus ?


The US market resisted just above bear market, as a result the French market is rising a bit, as predicted.

I wouldn't buy just yet, though.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 8703
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Dow tops 28000

Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:04 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
would the same amount of customer chose not to fly if they had any reason to trust the current admin? Probably yes..... Airlines cancelled flights because people didn´t fly.

If I could count on tests being available, I probably wouldn't fear stepping out at all. If I knew that physicians will administer the covid-19 test to anyone showing symptoms instead of being selective (because of CDC guidelines), if experts kept us up to date with how everything is going, if the administration didn't attempt to downplay everything...people would likely be a bit more confident and not alter their plans.

But when a president insists that this is a hoax, is seen golfing instead of working to find ways to mitigate the impact (economically and socially), and attempts to conceal information (while his own experts contradict him), who are people to trust and what are they to do?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."

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