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acavpics
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Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:28 pm

As you may have heard, last night there was a mass shooting at a party in Fresno. This is just days after the Santa Clarita school shooting, and weeks after a similar tragedy in Orinda. And let's not forget about that San Diego man who shot his entire family yesterday. During the last one year, Thousand Oaks, Poway, and Gilroy have also joined the list of infamy. Why on Earth is this happening so much in California? (The one and ONLY state to get an "A" rating by Gifford's for its gun laws.)

It has mandatory background checks, red flag laws, training requirements, permits, gun licensing, assault weapon bans etc. Are these laws not being enforced properly?

I'm really beginning to think that there is a lot more to such acts of violence than just lax gun laws. There's states in this country with much more relaxed gun laws (Like New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont) and yet far lower rates of homicide and mass shootings than CA. What are your thoughts/suggestions on this?

Note: Please try your best to not make this "democrats vs republicans", "liberals vs conservatives" etc.
 
bgm
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:53 pm

Until all states adopt the same gun laws it’s easy for someone to get a gun across state lines, making the CA laws completely useless.

The bottom line is that the concept of any meaningful gun control has long gone. There are just too many guns in circulation and combine that with the mental issues that so many Americans have, you’re going to keep seeing stuff like this.

Lack of affordable health care = mental issues not being addressed.
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Aaron747
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:58 pm

It is nothing particular to CA - FL and TX supposedly have high incidence of this stuff as well. What do all three have in common? The largest state populations, thus more incidence. Mental health unchecked, crushing life stress, and guns in the hands of those who shouldn’t have them are endemic to the nation at large.
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afcjets
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:59 pm

California is the size of a country with 40 to 50 million people so a lot of it is statistics. You're going to have 20 times the amount of violence in California than Vermont.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:59 pm

acavpics wrote:
As you may have heard, last night there was a mass shooting at a party in Fresno. This is just days after the Santa Clarita school shooting, and weeks after a similar tragedy in Orinda. And let's not forget about that San Diego man who shot his entire family yesterday. During the last one year, Thousand Oaks, Poway, and Gilroy have also joined the list of infamy. Why on Earth is this happening so much in California? (The one and ONLY state to get an "A" rating by Gifford's for its gun laws.)

It has mandatory background checks, red flag laws, training requirements, permits, gun licensing, assault weapon bans etc. Are these laws not being enforced properly?

I'm really beginning to think that there is a lot more to such acts of violence than just lax gun laws. There's states in this country with much more relaxed gun laws (Like New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont) and yet far lower rates of homicide and mass shootings than CA. What are your thoughts/suggestions on this?

Note: Please try your best to not make this "democrats vs republicans", "liberals vs conservatives" etc.


I don't think we know if the gun in the latest shooting was legal or not but don't forget gun laws only keep guns out of good people hands not the bad people.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:08 pm

Vermont has very liberal gun laws (basically second amendment, open and concealed carry ok) but it’s murder rate is 40% of Cali’s
 
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casinterest
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:33 pm

Here comes Oklahoma with an answer.

https://kdvr.com/2019/11/18/at-least-3- ... a-walmart/
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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seb146
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:02 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Vermont has very liberal gun laws (basically second amendment, open and concealed carry ok) but it’s murder rate is 40% of Cali’s


Every gun owner in Vermont is a member of a well regulated militia, as printed in the second amendment. Also, there are far fewer people in Vermont than California. Open and Concealed carry are legal in Oregon and Washington as well and they have shootings all the time with fewer people than California. This whole right wing notion of "everything in California is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (pl) have lived there, until you (pl) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California behind because they are 'liberal'" is a joke. Just stop it.
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Tugger
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:23 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
but don't forget gun laws only keep guns out of good people hands not the bad people.

I don't believe that statement is accurate or correct.

Tugg
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Brick
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:48 pm

casinterest wrote:
Here comes Oklahoma with an answer.

https://kdvr.com/2019/11/18/at-least-3- ... a-walmart/

Local media is reporting the shooting was the result of a domestic dispute. Oh, and an armed citizen used their firearm to stop the shooter preventing additional people from being targeted.

This won't fit the MSM narrative, so just like the "school" shooting in New Jersey last week expect this to quickly fall off of the MSM's radar.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
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casinterest
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:55 pm

Brick wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Here comes Oklahoma with an answer.

https://kdvr.com/2019/11/18/at-least-3- ... a-walmart/

Local media is reporting the shooting was the result of a domestic dispute. Oh, and an armed citizen used their firearm to stop the shooter preventing additional people from being targeted.

This won't fit the MSM narrative, so just like the "school" shooting in New Jersey last week expect this to quickly fall off of the MSM's radar.


Well the armed citizen didn't stop the shooter, apparently the shooter shot himself. 2 guns 3 dead. the statistics show for themselves.
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Brick
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:36 pm

casinterest wrote:
Well the armed citizen didn't stop the shooter, apparently the shooter shot himself.

The shooter shot himself when he was confronted by an armed citizen according to local media coverage. So yes, an armed citizen did stop the shooter.
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casinterest
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:41 pm

Brick wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Well the armed citizen didn't stop the shooter, apparently the shooter shot himself.

The shooter shot himself when he was confronted by an armed citizen according to local media coverage. So yes, an armed citizen did stop the shooter.


in a domestic dispute, the other guy stopped him? Looks like the dispute was over.
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TSS
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:57 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Vermont has very liberal gun laws (basically second amendment, open and concealed carry ok) but it’s murder rate is 40% of Cali’s


That's hardly a statistic to be proud of considering that Vermont's population is 1/63rd, or 1.6%, of California's... 626,299 versus 39,865,590.

Source- https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

A better question to ask in light of that information would be "Honestly, what is going on with Vermont?".

seb146 wrote:
Every gun owner in Vermont is a member of a well regulated militia, as printed in the second amendment. Also, there are far fewer people in Vermont than California. Open and Concealed carry are legal in Oregon and Washington as well and they have shootings all the time with fewer people than California. This whole right wing notion of "everything in California is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (pl) have lived there, until you (pl) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California behind because they are 'liberal'" is a joke. Just stop it.


I'll go you one better: This whole right wing all too common notion of "everything in California any given state is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (plural) have lived there, until you (plural) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California any given state behind because they are 'liberal' not what you're used to" is a joke. Just stop it.
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tommy1808
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:10 pm

Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
but don't forget gun laws only keep guns out of good people hands not the bad people.

I don't believe that statement is accurate or correct.

Tugg


In deed, here less than 1% of felonies are committed with guns, about a quarter of which is toy and replica guns, we have on average 12 shooting per day, most of that illegal shooting and property damage, with 2 shots fired at people. Two times per week someone is shot dead during a crime. We have gun control laws even I find to strict. Germany is no outlayer, the correlation more gun control = less gun crimes = fewer dead holds pretty much across the world and US states.

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Brick
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:19 pm

casinterest wrote:
in a domestic dispute, the other guy stopped him? Looks like the dispute was over.

No. The armed citizen that intervened and stopped the shooter was not involved in the domestic dispute that lead up to the shooting.
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:42 pm

TSS wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Vermont has very liberal gun laws (basically second amendment, open and concealed carry ok) but it’s murder rate is 40% of Cali’s


That's hardly a statistic to be proud of considering that Vermont's population is 1/63rd, or 1.6%, of California's... 626,299 versus 39,865,590.

Source- https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

A better question to ask in light of that information would be "Honestly, what is going on with Vermont?".

seb146 wrote:
Every gun owner in Vermont is a member of a well regulated militia, as printed in the second amendment. Also, there are far fewer people in Vermont than California. Open and Concealed carry are legal in Oregon and Washington as well and they have shootings all the time with fewer people than California. This whole right wing notion of "everything in California is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (pl) have lived there, until you (pl) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California behind because they are 'liberal'" is a joke. Just stop it.


I'll go you one better: This whole right wing all too common notion of "everything in California any given state is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (plural) have lived there, until you (plural) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California any given state behind because they are 'liberal' not what you're used to" is a joke. Just stop it.


What part of murder RATE don’t you understand? Cali: 3.3/100,000 vs. Vt 1.3/100,000.
 
johns624
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:54 pm

bgm wrote:
Until all states adopt the same gun laws it’s easy for someone to get a gun across state lines, making the CA laws completely useless.

Wrong. First of all, it's illegal federally to buy a handgun outside your own state. Has been since 1968, I believe. Secondly, if that "other state" has laxer gun laws, why doesn't it have the same high crime rate? Ever think that maybe it's a crime/gang (people) problem and not a gun problem.
 
BN747
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:00 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
TSS wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Vermont has very liberal gun laws (basically second amendment, open and concealed carry ok) but it’s murder rate is 40% of Cali’s


That's hardly a statistic to be proud of considering that Vermont's population is 1/63rd, or 1.6%, of California's... 626,299 versus 39,865,590.

Source- https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

A better question to ask in light of that information would be "Honestly, what is going on with Vermont?".

seb146 wrote:
Every gun owner in Vermont is a member of a well regulated militia, as printed in the second amendment. Also, there are far fewer people in Vermont than California. Open and Concealed carry are legal in Oregon and Washington as well and they have shootings all the time with fewer people than California. This whole right wing notion of "everything in California is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (pl) have lived there, until you (pl) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California behind because they are 'liberal'" is a joke. Just stop it.


I'll go you one better: This whole right wing all too common notion of "everything in California any given state is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (plural) have lived there, until you (plural) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California any given state behind because they are 'liberal' not what you're used to" is a joke. Just stop it.


What part of murder RATE don’t you understand? Cali: 3.3/100,000 vs. Vt 1.3/100,000.


Math goes beyond those paltry figures...compare pops in each...

Vermont - 627,180 (approx. 8 per 600K)

vs

California - 39.75 million (3 x the Vermont number)

1.3 out of a mere half a million is astonishingly high! If California had Vermont's stats per capita it's be like 17.4 per 500K.

So, now about that Oklahoma mass shooting today? I'm sure another Texas mass killing is due any minute now.

BN747
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johns624
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:40 pm

Here are the latest per capita rates by state. CA is almost 3x VT but neither is anywhere close to the top. New England is the lowest region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... icide_rate
 
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seb146
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:43 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
TSS wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Vermont has very liberal gun laws (basically second amendment, open and concealed carry ok) but it’s murder rate is 40% of Cali’s


That's hardly a statistic to be proud of considering that Vermont's population is 1/63rd, or 1.6%, of California's... 626,299 versus 39,865,590.

Source- https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

A better question to ask in light of that information would be "Honestly, what is going on with Vermont?".

seb146 wrote:
Every gun owner in Vermont is a member of a well regulated militia, as printed in the second amendment. Also, there are far fewer people in Vermont than California. Open and Concealed carry are legal in Oregon and Washington as well and they have shootings all the time with fewer people than California. This whole right wing notion of "everything in California is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (pl) have lived there, until you (pl) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California behind because they are 'liberal'" is a joke. Just stop it.


I'll go you one better: This whole right wing all too common notion of "everything in California any given state is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (plural) have lived there, until you (plural) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California any given state behind because they are 'liberal' not what you're used to" is a joke. Just stop it.


What part of murder RATE don’t you understand? Cali: 3.3/100,000 vs. Vt 1.3/100,000.


Right. Because (say it with me)

THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE IN CALIFORNIA THAN VERMONT
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casinterest
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:54 pm

Brick wrote:
casinterest wrote:
in a domestic dispute, the other guy stopped him? Looks like the dispute was over.

No. The armed citizen that intervened and stopped the shooter was not involved in the domestic dispute that lead up to the shooting.


I think you missed the point. The shooter had already killed those he wanted to kill, and then he shot himself. The Armed citizen stopped nothing.

According to all the latest news reports, there is no report of a Armed citizen intervening in any way that mattered once this was over.

https://apnews.com/dfdcef620d874f419c234bcad1d06733
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casinterest
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:56 pm

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

There is no real issue in California.
Just look at the map in the below link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... es_in_2019
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
TSS
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:11 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
TSS wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Vermont has very liberal gun laws (basically second amendment, open and concealed carry ok) but it’s murder rate is 40% of Cali’s


That's hardly a statistic to be proud of considering that Vermont's population is 1/63rd, or 1.6%, of California's... 626,299 versus 39,865,590.

Source- https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

A better question to ask in light of that information would be "Honestly, what is going on with Vermont?".

seb146 wrote:
Every gun owner in Vermont is a member of a well regulated militia, as printed in the second amendment. Also, there are far fewer people in Vermont than California. Open and Concealed carry are legal in Oregon and Washington as well and they have shootings all the time with fewer people than California. This whole right wing notion of "everything in California is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (pl) have lived there, until you (pl) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California behind because they are 'liberal'" is a joke. Just stop it.


I'll go you one better: This whole right wing all too common notion of "everything in California any given state is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (plural) have lived there, until you (plural) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California any given state behind because they are 'liberal' not what you're used to" is a joke. Just stop it.


What part of murder RATE don’t you understand? Cali: 3.3/100,000 vs. Vt 1.3/100,000.


The part of "murder RATE" I didn't understand was to which specific rate you were referring: Total number of murders per state versus average number of murders per 100,000 citizens.
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910A
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:41 am

johns624 wrote:
Here are the latest per capita rates by state. CA is almost 3x VT but neither is anywhere close to the top. New England is the lowest region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... icide_rate


Thanks for posting. Those red neck states in the deep south murder people left and right. Missouri the Shoot me State is an interesting case, as they at one time had some of the most restrictive gun laws. Research from John Hopkins Center for Gun Policy found that the 2007 repeal of permit to purchase handgun law resulted in a 25% increase in firearms homicide rates. From 2008 to 2014 the homicide by firearm rate rose to 47% higher than the national average. The book Dying of Whiteness by Jonathan Metzl has interviews with several family members down in the Cape area that had a family member killed and how/ or wasn't effected by the increase of the homicide rate and how anyone can just purchase a gun.

Back to the OP question: One of the factors is all the networks have their west coast news headquarters in California which allows for just about instant coverage.
 
winginit
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:58 am

acavpics wrote:
As you may have heard, last night there was a mass shooting at a party in Fresno. This is just days after the Santa Clarita school shooting, and weeks after a similar tragedy in Orinda. And let's not forget about that San Diego man who shot his entire family yesterday. During the last one year, Thousand Oaks, Poway, and Gilroy have also joined the list of infamy. Why on Earth is this happening so much in California? (The one and ONLY state to get an "A" rating by Gifford's for its gun laws.)

It has mandatory background checks, red flag laws, training requirements, permits, gun licensing, assault weapon bans etc. Are these laws not being enforced properly?

I'm really beginning to think that there is a lot more to such acts of violence than just lax gun laws. There's states in this country with much more relaxed gun laws (Like New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont) and yet far lower rates of homicide and mass shootings than CA. What are your thoughts/suggestions on this?

Note: Please try your best to not make this "democrats vs republicans", "liberals vs conservatives" etc.


Looks to me as though California is... *checks notes* precisely average when comparing their homicide rate to that of other states... #26, and improving over time

Image
 
BN747
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:15 am

winginit wrote:
acavpics wrote:
As you may have heard, last night there was a mass shooting at a party in Fresno. This is just days after the Santa Clarita school shooting, and weeks after a similar tragedy in Orinda. And let's not forget about that San Diego man who shot his entire family yesterday. During the last one year, Thousand Oaks, Poway, and Gilroy have also joined the list of infamy. Why on Earth is this happening so much in California? (The one and ONLY state to get an "A" rating by Gifford's for its gun laws.)

It has mandatory background checks, red flag laws, training requirements, permits, gun licensing, assault weapon bans etc. Are these laws not being enforced properly?

I'm really beginning to think that there is a lot more to such acts of violence than just lax gun laws. There's states in this country with much more relaxed gun laws (Like New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont) and yet far lower rates of homicide and mass shootings than CA. What are your thoughts/suggestions on this?

Note: Please try your best to not make this "democrats vs republicans", "liberals vs conservatives" etc.


Looks to me as though California is... *checks notes* precisely average when comparing their homicide rate to that of other states... #26, and improving over time

Image


Well now, that'll shut the mouth's of the 'hate Calif (because I can't live there) at all cost crowd right up!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
mdsh00
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:18 am

Nothing is wrong with California other than the constant "opinions" made by people who don't live here. Sometimes I feel like California is to the US, what the US is to the world.

For a state with the population of Canada, we rank in the bottom 10 states for gun death rate. I think that's pretty good.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:45 am

TSS wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
TSS wrote:

That's hardly a statistic to be proud of considering that Vermont's population is 1/63rd, or 1.6%, of California's... 626,299 versus 39,865,590.

Source- https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

A better question to ask in light of that information would be "Honestly, what is going on with Vermont?".



I'll go you one better: This whole right wing all too common notion of "everything in California any given state is evil" really needs to stop. Until you (plural) have lived there, until you (plural) understand that each of the 50 states have their own needs, the whole notion of "leave California any given state behind because they are 'liberal' not what you're used to" is a joke. Just stop it.


What part of murder RATE don’t you understand? Cali: 3.3/100,000 vs. Vt 1.3/100,000.


The part of "murder RATE" I didn't understand was to which specific rate you were referring: Total number of murders per state versus average number of murders per 100,000 citizens.



A “rate” is, by definition, a measure of occurrences per unit of measure; not the absolute value. IF I meant total murders, I would have not used the term rate, but total murders.

GF
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:48 am

 
BN747
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:01 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:


So are you concerned for the homeless? Or that would that be your demographic if you ended up here?

Because Poverty exist in every state..even yours.

And were I in that group, I'd prefer to be in a place that offers endless pleasantries to just see and beaches to escape versus seeing trailer park after trailer park in Arkansas or endless cows in Nebraska..and more trailer parks. Poor people here can take kids anywhere and blend in with everyone, every day and different places.

It's why more than half the US's homeless population living here? There's more services available, active measures in motion to accommodate them vs kicking them out (it's called empathy since you appear to insensitive to their plight.

So yeah, so California beats where ever it is you're holed up.

Our illegals are happier here too!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
mdsh00
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:19 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:


Is that all you got? You do know California has the 5th largest economy in the world and in the top 10 for median income right?
 
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acavpics
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:16 am

winginit wrote:
acavpics wrote:
As you may have heard, last night there was a mass shooting at a party in Fresno. This is just days after the Santa Clarita school shooting, and weeks after a similar tragedy in Orinda. And let's not forget about that San Diego man who shot his entire family yesterday. During the last one year, Thousand Oaks, Poway, and Gilroy have also joined the list of infamy. Why on Earth is this happening so much in California? (The one and ONLY state to get an "A" rating by Gifford's for its gun laws.)

It has mandatory background checks, red flag laws, training requirements, permits, gun licensing, assault weapon bans etc. Are these laws not being enforced properly?

I'm really beginning to think that there is a lot more to such acts of violence than just lax gun laws. There's states in this country with much more relaxed gun laws (Like New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont) and yet far lower rates of homicide and mass shootings than CA. What are your thoughts/suggestions on this?

Note: Please try your best to not make this "democrats vs republicans", "liberals vs conservatives" etc.


Looks to me as though California is... *checks notes* precisely average when comparing their homicide rate to that of other states... #26, and improving over time

Image


While CA is not in the highest percentile, it's apparently not far from TX, OH, VA which all have lax gun laws
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:19 am

BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:


So are you concerned for the homeless? Or that would that be your demographic if you ended up here?

Because Poverty exist in every state..even yours.

And were I in that group, I'd prefer to be in a place that offers endless pleasantries to just see and beaches to escape versus seeing trailer park after trailer park in Arkansas or endless cows in Nebraska..and more trailer parks. Poor people here can take kids anywhere and blend in with everyone, every day and different places.

It's why more than half the US's homeless population living here? There's more services available, active measures in motion to accommodate them vs kicking them out (it's called empathy since you appear to insensitive to their plight.

So yeah, so California beats where ever it is you're holed up.

Our illegals are happier here too!

BN747


I’m in an east coast state where the rate is about half Cali’s. Poverty should hurt, it’s how you recognize you need to change. Cali’s program merely reinforces the idea being poor, dependent on others for welfare and homeless are just another lifestyle choice.
 
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acavpics
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:22 am

910A wrote:

Back to the OP question: One of the factors is all the networks have their west coast news headquarters in California which allows for just about instant coverage.


You know, that is something that I suspected for a VERY long time. Even when there is a single/domestic dispute shooting in CA, it comes on the Google news feed. I've counted several instances of headlines like "one man shot near LA" on national news stream yet there are homicide incidents with more fatalities in other states with less coverage.

Aaron747 wrote:
It is nothing particular to CA - FL and TX supposedly have high incidence of this stuff as well. What do all three have in common? The largest state populations, thus more incidence. Mental health unchecked, crushing life stress, and guns in the hands of those who shouldn’t have them are endemic to the nation at large.


It makes sense for this to happen frequently in states like Texas and Florida, given that in TX literally anyone can go to the corner shop and buy a high powered rifle with thousands of ammunition rounds. Florida is not much better. But California is the polar opposite when it comes to gun regulations. And every time there is a mass shooting there, we hear the usual talk about the shooter ("He was depressed, lonely, angry, obsessed with violence etc.. but he should not have been allowed to buy a gun.") that you hear after shootings in other states. Yet I just struggle to understand how such people get firearms so frequently in a state which has such tight regulations against this. I know, nearby states have lax gun laws. But a large chunk of Californian shooters have gotten theirs within the state (e.g. San Bernardino, Tehama, Thousand Oaks, Poway, San Francisco UPS,)

Other states like NY, MA, NJ, CT, RI have laws that are almost as tight but we rarely hear about such high profile mass shootings in those states and they also have lower homicide rates than CA. The point I am trying to make is that if tight gun laws (Universal Background checks,Red Flag Laws, Assault Weapon/High Capacity Magazine bans) was the only solution to reducing gun violence, then CA would be the safest state in the entire country. Yet, that is far from true, which means that much more contributes to mass shootings than just lax gun laws
 
BN747
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:26 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:


So are you concerned for the homeless? Or that would that be your demographic if you ended up here?

Because Poverty exist in every state..even yours.

And were I in that group, I'd prefer to be in a place that offers endless pleasantries to just see and beaches to escape versus seeing trailer park after trailer park in Arkansas or endless cows in Nebraska..and more trailer parks. Poor people here can take kids anywhere and blend in with everyone, every day and different places.

It's why more than half the US's homeless population living here? There's more services available, active measures in motion to accommodate them vs kicking them out (it's called empathy since you appear to insensitive to their plight.

So yeah, so California beats where ever it is you're holed up.

Our illegals are happier here too!

BN747


I’m in an east coast state where the rate is about half Cali’s. Poverty should hurt, it’s how you recognize you need to change. Cali’s program merely reinforces the idea being poor, dependent on others for welfare and homeless are just another lifestyle choice.


That perfectly explains your love of this immoral disgusting president.

Zero understanding of all avenues that led so many people to the desperate situations they find themselves in. That statement renders the notion that you actually believe everyone of those people had the same opportunities,associations, assistance that you had. That there is an establish path that will always take one to the goal of their dreams.

The Republican attitude in stone. No understanding necessary...Perfect Human there.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
JJJ
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:15 am

BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:


So are you concerned for the homeless? Or that would that be your demographic if you ended up here?

Because Poverty exist in every state..even yours.



Still poverty and inequality are closely linked with violence and murder.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -homicide/

There are other angles like urban vs rural population but inequality and poverty are up there.
 
BN747
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:33 am

JJJ wrote:
BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:


So are you concerned for the homeless? Or that would that be your demographic if you ended up here?

Because Poverty exist in every state..even yours.



Still poverty and inequality are closely linked with violence and murder.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -homicide/

There are other angles like urban vs rural population but inequality and poverty are up there.


Absolutely!

Poverty prone means you are in despair and desperate for any kind of break, even ceasing on criminal acts for a risky temporary fix of your situation.

And bet that a lot of those desperate souls are people who had to get out of Kansas because nothings there to get all excited about (let alone a future for a young mind) and come here or NoCal or Florida and it's so easy to get into the party/nightlife scene and next you know, you're selling drugs to eat, pay for your pad...basically you have no usable skills, even if you have a degree it's gonna be tough here or any large city where you know no one.

Next thing you know, you are facing a 'do I go back to -blank- or do try harder here or do I just get high and sleep on a bus bench (this after your 'friend' has tossed you off his sofa for no being able to contribute to expenses. I don't know all the routes and wrong choices one can make..but the same desperation of those south of the border are the desperate acts of Americans struggling to make it ever increasing competitive urban centers.

A thousand reasons exist as why people end up and horrific situations and because most of us lend zero deep thoughts on the matter, the easy route is tell yourself, they did it to themselves as GalaxyFlyer preaches from his soapbox....and be done with it.



BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
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Aesma
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:12 am

I was in Santa Clarita 3 weeks ago, then I drove to Fresno for a wedding. Maybe I'm the link ?

I agree with the latest posts, I was surprised by the number of people in SFO that looked drugged up. Not just homeless people (although there are a fair few, but it's the same in Paris) but people rambling, walking sideways etc.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
johns624
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:22 pm

mdsh00 wrote:

For a state with the population of Canada, we rank in the bottom 10 states for gun death rate. I think that's pretty good.
No, it appears it's in 26th place, so right in the middle.
 
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acavpics
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:30 pm

johns624 wrote:
mdsh00 wrote:

For a state with the population of Canada, we rank in the bottom 10 states for gun death rate. I think that's pretty good.
No, it appears it's in 26th place, so right in the middle.


We need to remember that "gun death rate" is not just murders but also include suicides and accidental shootings. If we look at homicide rates alone, CA is about smack dab in the middle.
 
winginit
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:48 pm

acavpics wrote:
winginit wrote:
acavpics wrote:
As you may have heard, last night there was a mass shooting at a party in Fresno. This is just days after the Santa Clarita school shooting, and weeks after a similar tragedy in Orinda. And let's not forget about that San Diego man who shot his entire family yesterday. During the last one year, Thousand Oaks, Poway, and Gilroy have also joined the list of infamy. Why on Earth is this happening so much in California? (The one and ONLY state to get an "A" rating by Gifford's for its gun laws.)

It has mandatory background checks, red flag laws, training requirements, permits, gun licensing, assault weapon bans etc. Are these laws not being enforced properly?

I'm really beginning to think that there is a lot more to such acts of violence than just lax gun laws. There's states in this country with much more relaxed gun laws (Like New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont) and yet far lower rates of homicide and mass shootings than CA. What are your thoughts/suggestions on this?

Note: Please try your best to not make this "democrats vs republicans", "liberals vs conservatives" etc.


Looks to me as though California is... *checks notes* precisely average when comparing their homicide rate to that of other states... #26, and improving over time

Image


While CA is not in the highest percentile, it's apparently not far from TX, OH, VA which all have lax gun laws


And remind us how CA compares to states with extremely lax gun laws like Missouri, Louisiana, and Alabama?

C'mon man - your post implied that California was some sort of gun murder hellscape, and that implication fell apart the second someone posted a basic chart from Wikipedia that it would have taken you ten seconds to reference.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:47 pm

winginit wrote:
acavpics wrote:
winginit wrote:

Looks to me as though California is... *checks notes* precisely average when comparing their homicide rate to that of other states... #26, and improving over time

Image


While CA is not in the highest percentile, it's apparently not far from TX, OH, VA which all have lax gun laws


And remind us how CA compares to states with extremely lax gun laws like Missouri, Louisiana, and Alabama?


Image

TX is at the 12 death/18 gun laws intersection.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
winginit
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:43 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
winginit wrote:
acavpics wrote:

While CA is not in the highest percentile, it's apparently not far from TX, OH, VA which all have lax gun laws


And remind us how CA compares to states with extremely lax gun laws like Missouri, Louisiana, and Alabama?


Image

TX is at the 12 death/18 gun laws intersection.

Best regards
Thomas


While that's a very interesting chart, if they're including suicides as firearms deaths (the vast majority of firearms deaths are suicides) that really sort of skews the conversation away from it's primary point - which is that of homicides. Suicide is worth discussing no doubt, but the solutions are certainly different.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 4127
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:39 pm

BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:

So are you concerned for the homeless? Or that would that be your demographic if you ended up here?

Because Poverty exist in every state..even yours.

And were I in that group, I'd prefer to be in a place that offers endless pleasantries to just see and beaches to escape versus seeing trailer park after trailer park in Arkansas or endless cows in Nebraska..and more trailer parks. Poor people here can take kids anywhere and blend in with everyone, every day and different places.

It's why more than half the US's homeless population living here? There's more services available, active measures in motion to accommodate them vs kicking them out (it's called empathy since you appear to insensitive to their plight.

So yeah, so California beats where ever it is you're holed up.

Our illegals are happier here too!

BN747


I’m in an east coast state where the rate is about half Cali’s. Poverty should hurt, it’s how you recognize you need to change. Cali’s program merely reinforces the idea being poor, dependent on others for welfare and homeless are just another lifestyle choice.


That perfectly explains your love of this immoral disgusting president.

Zero understanding of all avenues that led so many people to the desperate situations they find themselves in. That statement renders the notion that you actually believe everyone of those people had the same opportunities,associations, assistance that you had. That there is an establish path that will always take one to the goal of their dreams.

The Republican attitude in stone. No understanding necessary...Perfect Human there.

BN747


You’re absolutely clueless. I have repeatedly said, having watched Trump for decades, he’s a buffoon, lacking in any character who treats most people especially wives with selfish contempt. I didn’t and would not vote for him as town dog catcher. I have way too much respect for dogs and honest characters. Like surviving a chasing bear, he only has to be marginally better than the opposition which perfectly describes 2016.

Hurting is God’s or human’s way of saying you f’d up and need to fix it. Poverty has many sources but escaping requires an effort to succeed. Finish high school, learn a trade, marry and stay married before having children and, in the US, you’ll do fine. Just ask any of the multitudes of immigrants who did just that. Do drugs, drop out of school, live the gangbanger lifestyle, have multiple kids by multiple women, fail them as a father and grinding poverty is your present and future.

As the president of one of the fast food chains said, “it took me 18 years to get out of poverty in Pakistan and only 12 years to make my first million in the US.” A Jewish friend of my mother’s arrived penniless after the War of Independence in Israel always said, “America’s are paved in gold and nobody sees it”.


GF
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:14 pm

There’s an old aphorism, “keep doing what you’ve been doing, you’ll keep getting what you’ve been getting.”

Well, the welfare state keeps subsidizing poverty, keeps dumbing down education thru the corrupt bargain with teacher’s unions, keeps making poverty better than work and don’t understand why the stats don’t change. Genuinely deserving poor like the mentally ill, drug abusers or uneducated deserve help, but the price is changing course not blaming others.
 
BN747
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:41 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
BN747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I’m in an east coast state where the rate is about half Cali’s. Poverty should hurt, it’s how you recognize you need to change. Cali’s program merely reinforces the idea being poor, dependent on others for welfare and homeless are just another lifestyle choice.


That perfectly explains your love of this immoral disgusting president.

Zero understanding of all avenues that led so many people to the desperate situations they find themselves in. That statement renders the notion that you actually believe everyone of those people had the same opportunities,associations, assistance that you had. That there is an establish path that will always take one to the goal of their dreams.

The Republican attitude in stone. No understanding necessary...Perfect Human there.

BN747


You’re absolutely clueless. I have repeatedly said, having watched Trump for decades, he’s a buffoon, lacking in any character who treats most people especially wives with selfish contempt. I didn’t and would not vote for him as town dog catcher. I have way too much respect for dogs and honest characters. Like surviving a chasing bear, he only has to be marginally better than the opposition which perfectly describes 2016.


Hmmm, so you don't believe the American Intel Community's findings that Russian election interference ever happened since you clearly state the guy worst than a dog catcher did all on his own, gotcha'.

To express all this disdain for this foolish adult yet you have vociferously defended him far stronger than his blind followers here...did you stumble and hit your head last night?


GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Hurting is God’s or human’s way of saying you f’d up and need to fix it. Poverty has many sources but escaping requires an effort to succeed. Finish high school, learn a trade, marry and stay married before having children and, in the US, you’ll do fine. Just ask any of the multitudes of immigrants who did just that. Do drugs, drop out of school, live the gangbanger lifestyle, have multiple kids by multiple women, fail them as a father and grinding poverty is your present and future.


There is NO 'god'...fake beings have no impact on anyone, which explains wide spread unexplained complexities of human behavior.

[quote="GalaxyFlyer"]As the president of one of the fast food chains said, “it took me 18 years to get out of poverty in Pakistan and only 12 years to make my first million in the US.” A Jewish friend of my mother’s arrived penniless after the War of Independence in Israel always said, “America’s are paved in gold and nobody sees it”.
GF[/quote=]

And I've gotten more out of this life than I should have received, but am fully aware that a lot of people, better resourced could never achieve and I understand that nothing is fair (a human concept) but neither is civility (another human concept) but we have formed these concepts in pursuit of 'better improving civilizations'. The late US Congressman Tom Lantos, a Holocaust survivor who has one the best tear-jerker stories ever! I have great admiration for anyone who over comes the odds from a given disadvantage situation. However, I met many who achieved from humble beginnings only to become the worst predatory creatures on the planet!

It's just human programming (how one is raised) that dictates one's future combined with either favorable, neutral or unfavorable environments. Given how flawed we are as a species, it is guaranteed to nurture and foster bad judgement generation to generation...this must figure in when evaluating or judging the life choices of others..simple tales of success stories just work for simple minds.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
tommy1808
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:06 am

winginit wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
winginit wrote:

And remind us how CA compares to states with extremely lax gun laws like Missouri, Louisiana, and Alabama?


Image

TX is at the 12 death/18 gun laws intersection.

Best regards
Thomas


While that's a very interesting chart, if they're including suicides as firearms deaths (the vast majority of firearms deaths are suicides) that really sort of skews the conversation away from it's primary point - which is that of homicides. Suicide is worth discussing no doubt, but the solutions are certainly different.


Yup, CA has ~84% of the gun homicide rate of TX, but ~65% of the overall rate of gun related death. The Source on top of the chart however breaks it down by Gun Related
Homicides and Gun Related Suicides. Texas also just has 40% of the population density, which will also impact crime. WI for example has a slightly higher number of gun laws, similar population density and slightly lower gun homicide rates than TX. Alabama has about the same population densiity, about half as many gun laws and about twice as many gun homicides. Just to compare Texas with the two closest population density peers.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:21 am

Stupid people having access to guns. That's what's wrong with things.

You can have airtight gun regulations and still have problems if you give stupid people access to guns!
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
tommy1808
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Re: Honestly, what is going on with California?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:49 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Stupid people having access to guns. That's what's wrong with things.

You can have airtight gun regulations and still have problems if you give stupid people access to guns!


Yup, the number of guns in circulation does not really impact the number of gun homicides by much, regulations do, when well enough designed, and keep guns out of the hands of stupid people.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......

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