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lesfalls
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Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:34 am

Just finished watching the following documentary below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxdXnc83Ww0

Is it true that Sweden is taking a continous amount of refuges who then remain unemployed and create crime (according to the Documentary)? If true is the siutation so bad as the documentary says?
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Olddog
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:21 am

So you think a russian crap propaganda can be accurate?
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Redd
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:12 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Just finished watching the following documentary below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxdXnc83Ww0

Is it true that Sweden is taking a continous amount of refuges who then remain unemployed and create crime (according to the Documentary)? If true is the siutation so bad as the documentary says?



I have a lot of friends in Sweden. It's not something they speak out loud about, but everyone seems concerned in private. And it's not as dire as the documentary makes it seem, Sweden certainly isn't dying.. But, the crime and unemployment are a big problems amongst the refugees. The social system is so good that there is no need to work to maintain a better standard of life than most of the refugees had had before arriving in Sweden.

I know it's politically incorrect to say what I said, but it's whats happening. Safety is a big issue, I have cousins in the burbs of Stockholm who've had their house burglarized twice in the past 3 years, they''ve been in Sweden for over 30 years and used to never lock their doors, even when going to work for the day.

I don't think it's a case against immigration, I just think we need to have some really strict integration/assimilation policies If you don't adapt and contribute, you get the boot back home. No exceptions.
 
olle
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:25 pm

In Stockholm you have never been able to leave your house without locking...

In the country side it is like that.

Sweden and Stockholm is changing fast from a small country and city to a medium sized country and city. There is probblems but compare the problems to London or Paris is far away.

Number of murders and violent crimes actually going down. But breaking into house in the city areas going up.
 
Jetty
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:39 pm

Yes it is true, Sweden is a mess! Bomb attacks are now a normal part of Swedish life. When it comes to bombings, no other developed country in the world which is not at war has experienced anything like Sweden’s epidemic. :bomb: :bomb: :bomb: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/bomb ... dish-life/

Denmark is even reintroducing border control because the ‘Swedish’ criminals cause havoc in Denmark as well. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/worl ... weden.html

Many Swedes now also realize the pro-immigration policies of the past are unsustainable. Just this week the anti-immigrant party took the lead in the polls for the first time. https://www.yahoo.com/news/anti-immigra ... 57525.html

Image
 
slider
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:06 pm

Sweden is on that slide, unfortunately. Unchecked immigration, largely islamic, is changing the demographic. Once they reach a critical mass, generally estimated to be 3-5% of the total, they'll be holding office, making demands, and forcing their culture on the rest. Sweden's generous social safety net has existed and worked for that country largely because it has historically been a heterogenous culture, one with shared ideals, work ethics, etc. The scales are getting out of balance between those who contribute and those who take.

Throw in a low native birth rate, below replacement rate, as with most Western first world countries, and it's a ticking time bomb. Islam can conquer without firing a shot. One of their means of jihad is now merely demographic. Adios Sweden, we hardly knew ye.
 
Redd
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:34 pm

olle wrote:
In Stockholm you have never been able to leave your house without locking...


Redd wrote:
have cousins in the burbs of Stockholm - used to never lock their doors, even when going to work for the day.



burbs = suburbs.... More specifically Vallentuna. Very much a countryside atmosphere there.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:19 pm

slider wrote:
Sweden is on that slide, unfortunately. Unchecked immigration, largely islamic, is changing the demographic. Once they reach a critical mass, generally estimated to be 3-5% of the total, they'll be holding office, making demands, and forcing their culture on the rest.


What is it about "3 to 5%" that all the white nationalists fixate on when it comes to minority presence? This is not the first time that claim has been (obviously falsely) made against an undesirable minority. I know it is not new, but since you seem to like it, perhaps you can shed some insight into why it has been chosen as the point by which to become frightened irrationally. . .
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VSMUT
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:22 pm

The Swedes are batshit crazy on the subject of immigration. Those right wing sources exagerate, but this is one of those cases where there is a lot of smoke, there must be fire...

Malmö has shootings, bombings and car fires on a regular basis. It has even started spilling over to Copenhagen, where a bunch of Swedes are wanted for bombing the taxation authorities and numerous other locations, resulting in the new border control to Sweden.
 
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seb146
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:59 pm

Isn't it interesting that Islam=break ins? Why does this not surprise me?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Bostrom
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:24 am

Here we go again, the video has disappeared but I think I can guess what it was about. As a Swede I'm fed up with the country being used as an example in political debates. Whether it is the left claiming it is some kind of of socialist utopia, or the far right claiming it is run over by militant islamists. It is neither. For those of you who are looking for a more balanced view on the situation, here is a better video to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCKxyDTlfHs
 
Jetty
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:50 am

Bostrom wrote:
As a Swede I'm fed up with the country being used as an example in political debates. Whether it is the left claiming it is some kind of of socialist utopia, or the far right claiming it is run over by militant islamists.

In recent history Sweden has seen the highest number of non-western migrants per capita and it's politicians are the most leftist of any western country. Thus regardless of ones view on the situation it's only logical Sweden is used as example in political debates.
 
olle
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:59 am

Jetty wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
As a Swede I'm fed up with the country being used as an example in political debates. Whether it is the left claiming it is some kind of of socialist utopia, or the far right claiming it is run over by militant islamists.

In recent history Sweden has seen the highest number of non-western migrants per capita and it's politicians are the most leftist of any western country. Thus regardless of ones view on the situation it's only logical Sweden is used as example in political debates.


Sweden are probably both the most conservative and leftist country in combination in the world. The difference is that in Sweden the upper and elite classes hs a tradition to agree a balance with the lower and working classes. Everybody wins by sharing the increase of incomes in the country.

The very special about Sweden and Scandinavia since the vikings is the acceptance that lower classes can join the middle and upper classes.

The Finns refugees during 50s an 60s, South Europeans in 60s and 70s, Latin Americans 70s 80s, Ex Y
ugoslavia 90s, now ME in the 00s and 10s all have something in common. They start their new lifes in the gettos, or bad areas, then, some of themself and major part of their children joins by using free schooling system the middle class, or by entrepreneurship the upper middle class.

Each of these generations mentioned above had problems. The Finns and Chilean was over represented in Swedish prisons, Ex Yugoslavia had thei mafia that is actually partly causing the problems with shootings and bombs etc.

Some of the first and second generations will not become law following citizens enjoying the advantages of the scandinavian countries but most will and over time the problems decreases.

The payments of the free schools and health care is partly payed by the very liberal business climate in for example sweden creating exporting companies. But the companies often finds its new employees and knowledge in cultures of their export markets from the second generation immigration.

It is not like in UK or USA that generation after generation working class cannot join the middle class but is stucked in the working class.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:10 am

lesfalls wrote:
Just finished watching the following documentary below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxdXnc83Ww0

Is it true that Sweden is taking a continous amount of refuges who then remain unemployed and create crime (according to the Documentary)? If true is the siutation so bad as the documentary says?


The account was taken down, so this "video" is gone.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Redd
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:01 am

seb146 wrote:
Isn't it interesting that Islam=break ins? Why does this not surprise me?



Because facts?
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:50 pm

slider wrote:
Sweden is on that slide, unfortunately. Unchecked immigration, largely islamic, is changing the demographic. Once they reach a critical mass, generally estimated to be 3-5% of the total, they'll be holding office, making demands, and forcing their culture on the rest. Sweden's generous social safety net has existed and worked for that country largely because it has historically been a heterogenous culture, one with shared ideals, work ethics, etc. The scales are getting out of balance between those who contribute and those who take.

Throw in a low native birth rate, below replacement rate, as with most Western first world countries, and it's a ticking time bomb. Islam can conquer without firing a shot. One of their means of jihad is now merely demographic. Adios Sweden, we hardly knew ye.



“Adios Sweden, we hardly knew ye.”

Resident fear mongering, drama queen has entered the room. Start buying your bunkers in New Zealand before it’s too late!

We’ve faced far more pressing issues in our 200,000 year existence and we’re better than ever, so calm it down buddy.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:26 pm

I'd like to point out all the right wingers on here that are claiming Sweden is being destroyed...without mentioning that it was already a socialist hellscape akin to Venezuela :rotfl:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Jetty
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:31 pm

seb146 wrote:
[Also, I have lived and worked in ethnic neighborhoods. I am more guarded around white people. Maybe it is North America but Muslims committing crimes here happens less often than white Christians committing crimes.

Don’t forget there is a huge difference between the Muslims in North-America and Europe. In North America many were vetted as refugee or come on a student/work visa. Europe borders on North-Africa and the Middle East and many Muslims crossed the border illegally. As a result Europe has more poorly educated/analphabetic young males with a tribal mentality.
 
anrec80
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:55 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Indeed, how does this even work? 3% of the population demand the 97% to change their ways?


It does. If this 3% is well organized, well funded, well lobbied for and, ideally, armed.
 
anrec80
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:09 pm

Jetty wrote:
Don’t forget there is a huge difference between the Muslims in North-America and Europe. In North America many were vetted as refugee or come on a student/work visa. Europe borders on North-Africa and the Middle East and many Muslims crossed the border illegally. As a result Europe has more poorly educated/analphabetic young males with a tribal mentality.


Well, if someone is coming to the USA on a student visa, they expect that they need to study and make their daily living. They don’t expect that they will receive any welfare. In Europe, our “refugees” know that “they give” apartments, there are “giving places” for food, etc. Hence the result.
 
anrec80
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:13 pm

Dutchy wrote:
We don't need other cultures to assimilate, but to integrate, like one said, other cultures enrich our countries. So we need to be culturally sensitive, in the sense that if we can fulfill the needs of a minority, without compromising our core values, why not? They are also free to do whatever they want, as long as it is with respect to others with a different culture.


The only problem is that those “other cultures” aren’t coming to Europe to enrich you anyhow. They are looking to enrich themselves somewhat financially - at the expense of your taxpayers and your welfare system. And no, they aren’t into “being culture sensitive” and “respect for host culture” either.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:52 pm

Tugger wrote:
I think the 3%-5% thing comes into play because that is around where political voice/power in a society begins to coalesce and the dominant groups starts to experience actual push-back from whatever group that it is not OK to dump them all into one category.

Tugg


Isn't there a contradiction ? You're saying it becomes a group with enough force to push back, doesn't that precisely put them into a category ?

The reasons there are a lot of Muslims in my country (or rather people with a background from a predominantly Muslim country) is not due to illegal immigration, but legal immigration when the country needed rebuilding, then building more for baby boomers and said immigrants. Now there is a natural immigration following from that initial wave, with immigrants "sponsoring" family members, or marrying across borders, etc. There are also asylum seekers getting a status, but the number is quite small, and illegal immigration is difficult to measure obviously, but not that big. It goes without saying that you can't benefit from the welfare state if you don't have papers.
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Jetty
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:20 pm

seb146 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Could it be the channel was posting "if you are not white heterosexual Christian you are bad" themes? That is hardly "Euorpean values".

It is short sighted to blame all the problems in one country on one religion. There are plenty of hard working immigrant Muslims. Stop blaming ALL of one group. This is how white nationalists and similar hate groups gain members and popularity.

Straw man. Nobody is blaming all problems on one group or saying everyone of that one group is bad.


Look at the usual posters in this thread as well as the original video. The theme is "Muslims immigrants are the problem" and not "immigrants are the problem". Religion has nothing to do with people breaking into homes or raping someone.

The video was taken down, so I sadly can’t say anything about it. I do know there are indeed people who put an irrational blame on Muslims, but the majority of Islam criticism is backed op by rational arguments, in my country at least.

I disagree that religion is irrelevant for criminal behavior: religion causes divide, and in a society where you value most people less because they don’t share your religion the burden to behave antisocial is lower. Muslim immigrants on average identify less with their new country and more with their religion than other immigrants. Regarding the treatment of woman and sexual crimes Islam is especially relevant, woman In Islam aren’t of equal value, simple as that. Every mainstream Islamic scholar says that daughters should inherit less than sons, the Quran explicitly allows husbands to hit their woman and Muhammed got married to a minor to name some examples. The way many Muslim women hide their sexuality isn’t a coincidence either, Muhammed himself said that it was a good way to be recognized as Muslim and avoid being harassed. And it indeed happens regularly that native woman are harassed by Muslim immigrants who wouldn’t think of harassing a woman dressed as a devout Muslim.

That of course doesn’t make every Muslim a criminal. There are many ways to interpret religious texts and their are also Islamic texts that can be expected to have a good influence on social behavior, but totally irrelevant it is not.

Not all immigrants are to blame. Yes, there are violent immigrants. No one questions that. But, to throw all Muslims or all immigrants in the same group as these violent offenders is dangerous.

:checkmark:
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:39 pm

Jetty wrote:
but the majority of Islam criticism is backed op by rational arguments, in my country at least.


Geert of Thierry is that you?

Sorry, your country is my country, right? Just listening to you is evidence that your statement is false.
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Tugger
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:41 pm

Aesma wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I think the 3%-5% thing comes into play because that is around where political voice/power in a society begins to coalesce and the dominant groups starts to experience actual push-back from whatever group that it is not OK to dump them all into one category.

Tugg


Isn't there a contradiction ? You're saying it becomes a group with enough force to push back, doesn't that precisely put them into a category ?

Yes, and I saw that as I was writing my post. But the reality is that "group power" is the the same as "all the same". Just because a community has enough golfers that together ensure good golf courses becomes a thing, does not mean that community is homogeneous, is all the same and doing the same thing. They come together on a certain thing "stop pushing me/us around" but then as with any group they are often diverse outside of that single aspect.

Tugg
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SQ22
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:05 am

Please keep this thread on topic which is the situation in Sweden. Thanks.
 
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stl07
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:28 am

Good grief. Just reading this thread makes me finally understand what people say about Europe having closed doors and America and Canada are open doors. Even the GOP immigration plan sounds like an open migration plan compared to what is being said about Sweeden. This radically reorients my perspective when people say immigrants are mistreated in North America. Sure, they are, but at least they aren't loathed and utterly dehumanized like they are by certain individuals in Europe. Have fun dividing your population and hating other ethnicities, and then wondering why you have had 2 separate world wars, the wars of Yugoslavia, and a bunch of terrorist attacks.

Before certain users say it- Yes, this is an Amerocentric post. But being from abroad allows me to see how stupid and ridiculous some of the rising sentiment in Europe is.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:01 am

stl07 wrote:
Good grief. Just reading this thread makes me finally understand what people say about Europe having closed doors and America and Canada are open doors. Even the GOP immigration plan sounds like an open migration plan compared to what is being said about Sweeden. This radically reorients my perspective when people say immigrants are mistreated in North America. Sure, they are, but at least they aren't loathed and utterly dehumanized like they are by certain individuals in Europe. Have fun dividing your population and hating other ethnicities, and then wondering why you have had 2 separate world wars, the wars of Yugoslavia, and a bunch of terrorist attacks.

Before certain users say it- Yes, this is an Amerocentric post. But being from abroad allows me to see how stupid and ridiculous some of the rising sentiment in Europe is.


Good grief, what an ignorant post. It is a post "we are good and you are bad"-post, whatever makes you happy, man.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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stl07
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:13 am

Dutchy wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Good grief. Just reading this thread makes me finally understand what people say about Europe having closed doors and America and Canada are open doors. Even the GOP immigration plan sounds like an open migration plan compared to what is being said about Sweeden. This radically reorients my perspective when people say immigrants are mistreated in North America. Sure, they are, but at least they aren't loathed and utterly dehumanized like they are by certain individuals in Europe. Have fun dividing your population and hating other ethnicities, and then wondering why you have had 2 separate world wars, the wars of Yugoslavia, and a bunch of terrorist attacks.

Before certain users say it- Yes, this is an Amerocentric post. But being from abroad allows me to see how stupid and ridiculous some of the rising sentiment in Europe is.


Good grief, what an ignorant post. It is a post "we are good and you are bad"-post, whatever makes you happy, man.

Thanks. I does make me happy to live in a country where Muslims are not considered the Toxins of society.
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:23 am

stl07 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Good grief. Just reading this thread makes me finally understand what people say about Europe having closed doors and America and Canada are open doors. Even the GOP immigration plan sounds like an open migration plan compared to what is being said about Sweeden. This radically reorients my perspective when people say immigrants are mistreated in North America. Sure, they are, but at least they aren't loathed and utterly dehumanized like they are by certain individuals in Europe. Have fun dividing your population and hating other ethnicities, and then wondering why you have had 2 separate world wars, the wars of Yugoslavia, and a bunch of terrorist attacks.

Before certain users say it- Yes, this is an Amerocentric post. But being from abroad allows me to see how stupid and ridiculous some of the rising sentiment in Europe is.


Good grief, what an ignorant post. It is a post "we are good and you are bad"-post, whatever makes you happy, man.

Thanks. I does make me happy to live in a country where Muslims are not considered the Toxins of society.


That is American ignorance and arrogance speaking, no worries, we have all seen it before :white:
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Aesma
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:58 am

I had missed it was an european country that elected a white supremacist president, supported by the KKK...
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olle
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:08 am

With Muslims situation in USA right now and special connected with immigration I think we have the classical case of stones and glass houses ;-)

Regarding Sweden, I think that the extreme right and populists miss the point that the immigration has been very good for Sweden. It has given Sweden a lot of new small and mid sized companies, given the older big corporations new energy and export markets. Compare Sweden and Finland 2000 to 2019 and you see 2 similar countries with similar governments and ideas experience totally different realities. The extreme right in Sweden and Norway talks about a lot of things bad in Sweden but never talk about the stagnation economy in Finland ;-)

Left and liberal on the other hand do not talk about the problem letting in houndred of thousend of refugees in a few month. Sweden can handle 25000-40000 person per year, getting them jobs etc. If there comes more special with low skills we see a problem, or even big problem.

We miss often something in the discussion. Second generation muslims in sweden, special the girls often becomes more swedish then the swedish. They have more problems with their parents then adopting with the Swedish style of life.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:11 am

olle wrote:
Left and liberal on the other hand do not talk about the problem letting in houndred of thousend of refugees in a few month. Sweden can handle 25000-40000 person per year, getting them jobs etc. If there comes more special with low skills we see a problem, or even big problem.


This, immigration in itself isn't a problem, change isn't a problem, is that change is too swift, society at large has problems with adjusting.
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Kiwirob
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:27 am

Olddog wrote:
So you think a russian crap propaganda can be accurate?


It's very accurate, living in Norway we constantly get news reports about the problems in Sweden, the company I work for has several offices and a factory in Sweden, so I speak to Swedes a lot. I find most of the Swedish people I know are embarrassed about the situation and even though they find the Social Democrats distasteful agree with there Swedes first policy. In Sweden the rise of the right is entirely related to the liberals and lefts continued open door immigration policies.
 
texdravid
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:29 am

The answer to the original question is Yes.
But so are most European states.

Due to America's isolation over the Atlantic and Pacific, European or Asian immigrants have to be by nature more well off, educated, and have the wherewithal to fund their immigration. Couple that with American attitudes of "the melting pot" and the sheer failed state of nearby Mexico and THAT unchecked illegal immigration, you have a stark difference from European countries. In Europe, the culture is much more socialist, cradle to grave societies, that once one is in, you have your golden ticket to get way too generous social programs and never have to work. Combine that with the next door refugees that are poor, uneducated and radicalized, you have a tremendous societal strain and an overwhelming of state funds and social services.

But on a wider note, immigrants in America of all stripes, including Muslims, are just more westernized, and their kids are basically completely westernized, and intermarriage is very common. In England, France, and Sweden, et. al, the immigrants and ESPECIALLY, the Muslims, keep to their own kind, are in immigrant ghettoes, and are too religious, and hate their hosts.

Europe's immigrants just don't want to acclimate and are antagonistic and just have no desire whatsoever to becoming secular in public and respecting western ideas of women's rights, sexual rights, and other ideals that native Europeans take for granted.

Oh well, get used to it Londonistan, and Paris-Syria, and Stockholm-mecca. You're being outbred, and your "decadent, western lifestyles" will be harshly curtailed by your new masters soon enough. Not in 2019, not in 2029, or even 2039. But by mid-century, you watch. Europe will cease to be even recognizable. You'll go to London and Westminster Abbey will be a Mosque, kinda like the Hagia Sophia. I'm sure the people of Constantinople had no idea it would get away from them in the mid 1400's and neither will the British in mid-21st century........
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:35 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
slider wrote:
Sweden is on that slide, unfortunately. Unchecked immigration, largely islamic, is changing the demographic. Once they reach a critical mass, generally estimated to be 3-5% of the total, they'll be holding office, making demands, and forcing their culture on the rest.


What is it about "3 to 5%" that all the white nationalists fixate on when it comes to minority presence? This is not the first time that claim has been (obviously falsely) made against an undesirable minority. I know it is not new, but since you seem to like it, perhaps you can shed some insight into why it has been chosen as the point by which to become frightened irrationally. . .


Don't you watch any UK news, muslim parents are challenging what it taught in many schools, stopping sex education classes, stopping discussion on same sex relationships, introduction of halal foods everywhere, no more pork products in school lunchrooms, authorities too afraid to do anything when muslims are part of the problem because they don't want to be called racists, the Rochale child grooming ring is a prime example. In the UK the minority tail is wagging the majority dog.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:18 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
So why is there higher unemployment in France for people with a non ethnic French background, why do the muslim populations congregate into muslim enclaves in many French cities? And who committed all the recent terror attacks in France?


I never understood the left wing parties (on the economical distribution scale) regarding this policy. A welfare state only works as long as the income balances out the expenses. This is basic stuff. You simply can't have a large glut of immigrants sucking the welfare state dry, it doesn't work like that.

Luckily the Social Democrats in Denmark have woken up to this. We led Europe with the nasty right wing anti-immigrant parties, hopefully we will finally bring some sensibility to the left wing politicians as well.
 
Jetty
Posts: 1044
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:09 pm

olle wrote:
Regarding Sweden, I think that the extreme right and populists miss the point that the immigration has been very good for Sweden. It has given Sweden a lot of new small and mid sized companies, given the older big corporations new energy and export markets. Compare Sweden and Finland 2000 to 2019 and you see 2 similar countries with similar governments and ideas experience totally different realities. The extreme right in Sweden and Norway talks about a lot of things bad in Sweden but never talk about the stagnation economy in Finland ;-)

GDP per capita 2000. Sweden: $29K Finland: $24K
GDP per capita 2018. Sweden: $54K Finland: $50K

This suggest the Finnish economic growth per capita in the period you want to compare was bigger. But the number of murders halved in Finland during that period, while it increased in Sweden.
 
Jetty
Posts: 1044
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Fri Nov 22, 2019 6:16 pm

texdravid wrote:
In Europe, the culture is much more socialist, cradle to grave societies, that once one is in, you have your golden ticket to get way too generous social programs and never have to work. Combine that with the next door refugees that are poor, uneducated and radicalized, you have a tremendous societal strain and an overwhelming of state funds and social services.

But on a wider note, immigrants in America of all stripes, including Muslims, are just more westernized, and their kids are basically completely westernized, and intermarriage is very common. In England, France, and Sweden, et. al, the immigrants and ESPECIALLY, the Muslims, keep to their own kind, are in immigrant ghettoes, and are too religious, and hate their hosts.

Europe's immigrants just don't want to acclimate and are antagonistic and just have no desire whatsoever to becoming secular in public and respecting western ideas of women's rights, sexual rights, and other ideals that native Europeans take for granted.

This is too much of a generalization. Not all is bad in Europe: there are many migrants from East and Southeast Asia and South-America who do well in European society and cause hardly any friction, with low crime-rates and high intermarriage rates i.e. The difference between Europe and the US is as much (or more) about the immigrants as the host countries. North-America gets to cherry-pick the Muslims and otherwise Latino's are much more compatible with a western society than people from Africa and the Middle-East,
 
olle
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:00 am

Jetty wrote:
olle wrote:
Regarding Sweden, I think that the extreme right and populists miss the point that the immigration has been very good for Sweden. It has given Sweden a lot of new small and mid sized companies, given the older big corporations new energy and export markets. Compare Sweden and Finland 2000 to 2019 and you see 2 similar countries with similar governments and ideas experience totally different realities. The extreme right in Sweden and Norway talks about a lot of things bad in Sweden but never talk about the stagnation economy in Finland ;-)

GDP per capita 2000. Sweden: $29K Finland: $24K
GDP per capita 2018. Sweden: $54K Finland: $50K

This suggest the Finnish economic growth per capita in the period you want to compare was bigger. But the number of murders halved in Finland during that period, while it increased in Sweden.



Murderrate in Sweden islower thenfinland and denmark and higher then norway.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... icide_rate


Regarding if murderrate going up or down murderrate in most Europeancountries go down.

https://www.bra.se/statistik/statistik- ... #Sedan1990

Thisshows thatmurderate in sweden 2018 constantly been going down since 1990s. Sweden 2018 has similar amount of murders 2018 as it had 1970s but with a much bigger population.
 
TSS
Posts: 3378
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:52 pm

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:20 am

olle wrote:
Regarding if murder rate going up or down murder rate in most European countries go down.

https://www.bra.se/statistik/statistik- ... #Sedan1990

This shows that murder rate in Sweden 2018 constantly been going down since 1990s. Sweden 2018 has similar amount of murders 2018 as it had 1970s but with a much bigger population.


It's tough to argue with a statistical report written in a language I don't read or understand, but fortunately graphs are universal and pretty much all of them in the report you linked to show a strong upward trend since the 2011-2014 time period, prior to which they were all trending downwards. To me that suggests that an event occurred in the 2011-2014 time frame that reversed the trend and although it hasn't gotten bad yet, it is headed in a bad direction.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
olle
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:07 am

something in English;

https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/ ... ghter.html

Homicide rate in Sweden has been between 100 and 120 since 1970 shown in the Swedish report. and similar 2002 to 2018 in the Wikipedia.

Homicide rate per 100 000 is today 1.10 per 100 000 persons, compared to 1,2 Finland, 1.2 Denmark, 0.5 Norway. USA is 5.3.

Yes, income per capita in Sweden has been growing per capita a bit slower the Finland, but the population of sweden has been growing by 10% during the same time or around 1 million. Finland has only been growing by 200 000 in the same period. Consider that statistics also say that unemployment in this group is high and the unemployment for the population that lived here 2010 is close 0 we can probably assume that income per capita for the group that lived here in 1980s and the immigrants after that is higher then in Finland. This unemployed group will probably get in employment the next few years and get increased incomes as well.

So if you consider the "terribible" immigration wave that was indeed hard to absorbed Sweden in absolute terms has been growing a bit slower per capita but faster as a country.

https://www.google.com/search?q=populat ... e&ie=UTF-8

Consider also that described in this forum it takes time to get the migrants up and running, and it is first now the migrants from the 1990s is in full work or even over representing in employment grade I am not very surprised.

Sweden has been able to absorved a increase of 20% of population since 1980s, more then doubling its economy per capita, decreased homicide rate during the same period.

But today we also have seen that this very fast development has left groups of people behind. We have a problem with drug mafia in some areas special in south of Sweden where we see an increase of gun violence and bombs. This need to be stopped. I personally consider that this can only be done by offer these groups that has been left behind by offer them and their children future opportunities. Only police and law enforcement do not help long term.
 
olle
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:23 am

From the swedish text as well;

Considering this text I assume that without the criminal gang violence the number of murders in 2018 would have been around 20-30 less per year and the homicide would had been closer to the level of Norway.

Sometimes I feel that discussing Sweden abroad and in Sweden we miss that we expect a level of violence much lower then for example USA. This make the discussion from USA being strange. I have a sensation that when for example MR Trump and republicans discuss Sweden they believe that Sweden has a higher homicide rate then USA perhaps on the level 7 Homicides per 100 000 people while in fact it is only 20% of the US Homicide rate.

------------------------------

Use of firearms
Since 2011, the cases of fatal violence have been classified according to whether the crimes were committed with or without the use of firearms. In 2018, firearms were used in 43 cases, which is 3 cases more than the previous year. The remaining 65 cases were committed without firearms, which is 8 cases fewer than 2017. The number of reported cases where firearms have been used has increased steadily since 2011 from 17 cases in 2011, to 43 cases in 2018. Firearms were used in 40 percent of the cases of fatal violence in 2018 , which is 5 percentage points higher than the year before, when the proportion was 35 percent. The proportion of cases of fatal violence using firearms has almost doubled (from 21 to 40 percent) since 2011.

In 98 percent (42 cases) of cases where firearms were used in 2018, the victim was a man and in 2 percent of cases (1 case) a woman. Since 2011, the number of female victims in the use of firearms has been few, and the proportion has varied between 2 and 19 percent annually.

The use of firearms in deadly violence is concentrated in the three metropolitan regions. In 2018, 77 per cent (33 cases) of all cases of lethal violence with firearms were reported in one of the three metropolitan regions. In the South region, 13 cases were found, which was 3 cases more than 2017. In the Stockholm region, 11 cases were reported with firearms 2018 (–8 cases) and in the West region 9 cases 2018 (+4 cases). The proportion of firearms cases found in metropolitan regions varied between 72 and 94 percent during the period 2011–2018
 
Jalap
Posts: 498
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:25 pm

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:19 pm

Olddog wrote:
So you think a russian crap propaganda can be accurate?

It doesn’t need to be accurate. The point is that it can trigger some racist hate speech.
Reading this thread, it seems to have been quite successfull.
The Russians sure do know how to play people.
(This assuming your claim of this video being Russian is accurate)
 
BN747
Posts: 7022
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 4:54 pm

slider wrote:
Sweden is on that slide, unfortunately. Unchecked immigration, largely islamic, is changing the demographic. Once they reach a critical mass, generally estimated to be 3-5% of the total, they'll be holding office, making demands, and forcing their culture on the rest. Sweden's generous social safety net has existed and worked for that country largely because it has historically been a heterogenous culture, one with shared ideals, work ethics, etc. The scales are getting out of balance between those who contribute and those who take.

Throw in a low native birth rate, below replacement rate, as with most Western first world countries, and it's a ticking time bomb. Islam can conquer without firing a shot. One of their means of jihad is now merely demographic. Adios Sweden, we hardly knew ye.


Want to disable this imminent time bomb?

Start dismantling religions, ALL of them. They have been doing nothing but fueling wars for centuries.

Now is good time for the Aliens to arrive...it'll do a much job faster than the feeble human efforts to whittle away at the ignorance of organized Religion.

But of course, we are speeding toward the old tried and true...a violent outcome and a WWIII scenario on a scale no could possibly imagine.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
olle
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 5:59 pm

you all realize that the biggest terrorist threat in Scandinavia is rightwing male and blond. they kill burn and cause deviating damage.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 3224
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:58 pm

olle wrote:
you all realize that the biggest terrorist threat in Scandinavia is rightwing male and blond. they kill burn and cause deviating damage.


Biggest threat? Breivik may have pulled off the biggest attack, but white supremacists are far from the only ones plotting terror in Scandinavia. There have been countless attempts of terrorism from the Islamic side. We have the police to thanks for unravelling most of the Islamic terrorists before they got as bad as Breivik.

And now the uncovering of the fact that the Iraqi minister of defence is a Swedish citizen who lives in Stockholm... :roll: Such nice people you invite to your country, only 300+ dead in the crackdown.
 
olle
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:40 pm

VSMUT wrote:
olle wrote:
you all realize that the biggest terrorist threat in Scandinavia is rightwing male and blond. they kill burn and cause deviating damage.


Biggest threat? Breivik may have pulled off the biggest attack, but white supremacists are far from the only ones plotting terror in Scandinavia. There have been countless attempts of terrorism from the Islamic side. We have the police to thanks for unravelling most of the Islamic terrorists before they got as bad as Breivik.

And now the uncovering of the fact that the Iraqi minister of defence is a Swedish citizen who lives in Stockholm... :roll: Such nice people you invite to your country, only 300+ dead in the crackdown.


Very true. In sweden they burn down refugee centers.

The funny perspective about the iraqi minister was that he suffers from nad memory :-)

The impression I have is thst the attack in denmark few years ago was organized. The 2 in sweden seems to have been single lunetics complicated for the police to track.

The extreme right wing are very well organized and financed it seems.
 
bhill
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 8:28 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:24 pm

Curious, are these immigrants offered citizenship?
Carpe Pices
 
anrec80
Posts: 2236
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Sweden a dying multi-cultural State?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:47 pm

bhill wrote:
Curious, are these immigrants offered citizenship?


They aren’t doing too shabby even without citizenship. Free housing, social assistance, food. They aren’t being made work. An immigrant even rob or beat someone, “examine” a local girl or two without any consequences. Why need citizenship?

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