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Tugger
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:11 pm

B777LRF wrote:
PS
I was once given a F-150 as a rental in the US. With distance best measured in light-years, it was the worst vehicle I've ever had the displeasure of being subjected to.

I am curious when this was?

Tugg
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:30 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:

Pick up truck are useless if you don't own a house, or if you own a house, but you're completely inept and therefore unable to anything around the house. Otherwise pickup trucks are excellent tools, much better than any car.


I had longer construction materials in my Passat then the longest F150 load bed is long, and almost twice as long as the shortest. With a closed trunk. Bit of a hassle, but how often do you do a new dry wall?
Buying because you like em, or because you need it for business makes sense, but it's not a tool because you do a lot around the house. Tools have to be cost efficient.

Best regards
Thomas


And when did you have your Passat loaded with material from a taken down deck or fence? Or leaves from the lawn? And yes, tools have to be cost efficient.
I probably paid the same money for the Altima + Frontier as you paid for your Passat.


Image

My parents have a house (and have had for 40 years). If one has to transport larger volumes of materials to the recycle centre they rent one of
these (and couple it onto the car (Volvo V70 AWD)).It costs about 50 US dollars to rent the trailer for 24 hours. This combination will let you
load way more then a regular pick-up truck. Construction companies, electricians and similar type of business usually goes with VW Caddy,
Peugeot Partner, Ford Transit and similar because a van will keep the stuff you transport dry.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
tommy1808
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:13 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

I had longer construction materials in my Passat then the longest F150 load bed is long, and almost twice as long as the shortest. With a closed trunk. Bit of a hassle, but how often do you do a new dry wall?
Buying because you like em, or because you need it for business makes sense, but it's not a tool because you do a lot around the house. Tools have to be cost efficient.

Best regards
Thomas


And when did you have your Passat loaded with material from a taken down deck or fence? Or leaves from the lawn? And yes, tools have to be cost efficient.
I probably paid the same money for the Altima + Frontier as you paid for your Passat.


Image

My parents have a house (and have had for 40 years). If one has to transport larger volumes of materials to the recycle centre they rent one of
these (and couple it onto the car (Volvo V70 AWD)).It costs about 50 US dollars to rent the trailer for 24 hours. This combination will let you
load way more then a regular pick-up truck. Construction companies, electricians and similar type of business usually goes with VW Caddy,
Peugeot Partner, Ford Transit and similar because a van will keep the stuff you transport dry.


Yup. At my local home improvement trailer/long wheel base crafter are even cheaper than that.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:59 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
And when did you have your Passat loaded with material from a taken down deck or fence? Or leaves from the lawn? And yes, tools have to be cost efficient.

I probably paid the same money for the Altima + Frontier as you paid for your Passat.

Only if the Frontier came free in a packet of cornflakes.
What sort of price differential are you imagining for two vehicles that supposedly compete head-to-head in the same mid-size car segment?

It is true that there are probably more people in more remote locations in North America, than in (western) Europe.
However, in those remote locations, it should be possible (and more effective) to burn leaves from the lawn and scrap materials such as you are describing. Unless it's happening on a weekly basis? In which case you need to have words with the eejit who is erecting these fences that keep falling down so often. Me - I reckon that for the once every ten years it's necessary, I'll hire a small truck for the day. Better still hire a man-with-a-van, and sip a few cold beers whilst he does all the hard stuff. :lol:

As for delivering the new replacement materials; my builders merchant has a lorry with a grab crane specifically for this purpose. However I do agree they would probably baulk at delivering a load 20 miles down a dirt track. So, a real mountain man does indeed need a 4wd truck.

Funny thing is all the dudes who pretend that they are genuine outdoors folk.

Here's a random selection of used trucks in the Las Vegas area, for sale today.
2007 GMC Sierra 2500 Classic SLT "Has towed heavy for less than 1000 miles, most towing was lightweight trailer "
1999 Ford F250 Lariat "used her basically as a vacation vehicle."
2008 Ford F150 2WD SuperCab "Great work truck", but what sort of "business" only racks up 30,900 miles in eleven years :rotfl:
2010 Ford F150 STX "Smells new. Seats like new, Very clean interior." Yeah, sure sounds like every working truck I've met ...... :roll:

To be fair there were also these two more genuine cases.
2007 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 LTZ "I .....used it to pull my 38 Baja boat" Ok, I'm good with that.
and a 2006 F-250 that boasted "2 sets of tires (BF Goodrich K2 s 35 and Nitto Mud Grapplers 38)" which suggests that at one point it may have gone off-road.

But in nearly every case, these trucks are shown sitting on a driveway in a cozy Las Vegas suburb. And most times they only get as far as the local liqor store.

And that is the market Tesla are aiming for too.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:59 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:

My parents have a house (and have had for 40 years). If one has to transport larger volumes of materials to the recycle centre they rent one of
these (and couple it onto the car (Volvo V70 AWD)).It costs about 50 US dollars to rent the trailer for 24 hours. This combination will let you
load way more then a regular pick-up truck. Construction companies, electricians and similar type of business usually goes with VW Caddy,
Peugeot Partner, Ford Transit and similar because a van will keep the stuff you transport dry.


Been there, done that. I even owned a utility trailer, as there were no rental places where I used to live. You guys keep forgetting that I'm an European living in Canada. I've done things both ways. But if I'd ever moved back (most unlikely), I'd buy a pickup truck again.
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:06 pm

If I need to haul something for the house, I just hire the experts. They haul the stuff in, do the work with their tools and job done. They’re much cheaper than doing it myself. And faster.

GF
 
JJJ
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:19 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:

Been there, done that. I even owned a utility trailer, as there were no rental places where I used to live. You guys keep forgetting that I'm an European living in Canada. I've done things both ways. But if I'd ever moved back (most unlikely), I'd buy a pickup truck again.


There are some very good reasons why working men in Europe prefer vans to pickups.

You see the odd Ranger or Hilux but chances are if you see a flatbed it's usually on a van chassis.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:37 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
And when did you have your Passat loaded with material from a taken down deck or fence? Or leaves from the lawn? And yes, tools have to be cost efficient. I probably paid the same money for the Altima + Frontier as you paid for your Passat.


If you know you need to move larger items a few times a year, what most people do is hitch a small trailer they either own or rent. And you can get a very large number of leaves bags in the back of a wagon the size of a Passat. Which means, that for 99,99% of the time you just need a car, you're driving around in something nice and comfortable, with fine road handling and economy, not a bloody tank.
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:56 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
And when did you have your Passat loaded with material from a taken down deck or fence? Or leaves from the lawn? And yes, tools have to be cost efficient.

I probably paid the same money for the Altima + Frontier as you paid for your Passat.

Only if the Frontier came free in a packet of cornflakes.
What sort of price differential are you imagining for two vehicles that supposedly compete head-to-head in the same mid-size car segment?


Well, I guess cars in Europe became very cheap since I moved to Canada. Before I moved to Canada a base Passat would cost you about 1mil Skk. A wagon would be about 100k more. That's about 36K Euros. The Altima and Frontier (the Frontier is a base 2WD manual model, not available anymore) set us back 59k CAD. That's 38k Euros. How far out am I?
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sevenair
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:53 pm

It just struck me as another one of Musk's cries for attention.
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:32 pm

sevenair wrote:
It just struck me as another one of Musk's cries for attention.


Nah! If he wanted attention he would have made the truck the official vehicle of Mars and launched it on the next SpaceX rocket. :lol:
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:56 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
sevenair wrote:
It just struck me as another one of Musk's cries for attention.


Nah! If he wanted attention he would have made the truck the official vehicle of Mars and launched it on the next SpaceX rocket. :lol:


I almost missed the sarcasm.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1197627433970589696

On a serious note, is he really planning to sell hardened trucks to general public at that price? I hope their lawyers included some fineprint on the website.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:07 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
I probably paid the same money for the Altima + Frontier as you paid for your Passat.

Only if the Frontier came free in a packet of cornflakes.
What sort of price differential are you imagining for two vehicles that supposedly compete head-to-head in the same mid-size car segment?


Well, I guess cars in Europe became very cheap since I moved to Canada. Before I moved to Canada a base Passat would cost you about 1mil Skk. A wagon would be about 100k more. That's about 36K Euros. The Altima and Frontier (the Frontier is a base 2WD manual model, not available anymore) set us back 59k CAD. That's 38k Euros. How far out am I?

Ah, now I get it. You are comparing the price of one car in Europe, against the price of two vehicles in North America.

If those are your criteria, then you win. :white:

I stupidly thought it was about the price of one capable vehicle that does 99% of what you need (say a Passat Estate Wagon) versus the cost of two vehicles, one of which most of the time guzzles gas whilst transporting nothing more than a pampered driver. Or sits on a driveway doing nothing 364 days of the year.
As a ex-pat surely you know that Europe has plenty of high-rollers who can afford a two-vehicle lifestyle, and yet mostly they see trucks as something for genuine tradesmen.

Is your justification for wrecking the planet simply that vehicles (and gas) are cheaper in North America? :scratchchin:

#Icanaffordtwovehiclesanddontcareabouttheplanet
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
M564038
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:55 pm

I love it. Doesn’t change much for us europeans, and It will probably weigh more than 3500Kg with a large battery and payload, thus demanding a heavy truck deivers licence, which is a large course and pretty expensive.

But other than that I am 100% sure this will be a huge success. Pre orders are already 200 000.
It is so much better than the traditional maga-pickup trucks in every measureable criteria that they won’t have a choice.

Remember when people thought the Model 3 was science fiction? Like last year?
Now it is just your average family car. 3,5sec 0-100, and 400HP, and no buttons except the screen, but still 1 year later just an everyday car found everywhere.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:39 am

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Ah, now I get it. You are comparing the price of one car in Europe, against the price of two vehicles in North America.

If those are your criteria, then you win. :white:


Duh, good morning, what did you expect? The European Tommy considered my truck to be too expensive as a tool. So I assured him that my truck wasn't all that expensive compared to his vehicle. Did you get it or you need some more help to understand?

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I stupidly thought it was about the price of one capable vehicle that does 99% of what you need (say a Passat Estate Wagon) versus the cost of two vehicles, one of which most of the time guzzles gas whilst transporting nothing more than a pampered driver. Or sits on a driveway doing nothing 364 days of the year.
As a ex-pat surely you know that Europe has plenty of high-rollers who can afford a two-vehicle lifestyle, and yet mostly they see trucks as something for genuine tradesmen.


Living in a city where the public transportation sucks (sorry Micus, but the service offered by your employer really sucks) and having several working persons in a family requires several vehicles in a family. So instead of a compact vehicle that would only carry it's users arse to work and do nothing else there is a truck that does quite a bit more. I understand it may be a problem to comprehend this for you, but that's really not my problem.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Is your justification for wrecking the planet simply that vehicles (and gas) are cheaper in North America? :scratchchin:

#Icanaffordtwovehiclesanddontcareabouttheplanet


You can keep your virtue signalling for yourself. You know, coming from the land of "I just spent a weekend in Rome, I didn't want to go but Ryanair had tickets for 10 pounds" it sounds less than sincere. On a second thought, it sounds rather like a truckload of bullshit.
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:00 am

B777LRF wrote:
If you know you need to move larger items a few times a year, what most people do is hitch a small trailer they either own or rent. And you can get a very large number of leaves bags in the back of a wagon the size of a Passat. Which means, that for 99,99% of the time you just need a car, you're driving around in something nice and comfortable, with fine road handling and economy, not a bloody tank.


So you think there is only one person in the family that needs to go to work? Yes, there is the family car that does the long runs if needed and there is the work vehicle. And of course, both act as daily commuter vehicle. When it comes to it, the electric truck would be the ideal second vehicle in our family. The smallest battery pack would be more than enough. Too bad we can't afford it now. But I will definitely think about it in the future.

What I find wildly amusing are people who never owned the thing* but they know for sure it is useless. Their opinion is the only true and the only valid. The opinion of people who own the thing is completely irrelevant and has to be disregarded.

*The thing may be anything. Ipad, snow tyres, electric vehicles, or in this case, pickup trucks. I suggest we revisit the topic of "useless vehicle" next time when some amazing sport car will be discussed.
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B777LRF
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:51 am

WildcatYXU wrote:
So you think there is only one person in the family that needs to go to work? Yes, there is the family car that does the long runs if needed and there is the work vehicle. And of course, both act as daily commuter vehicle. When it comes to it, the electric truck would be the ideal second vehicle in our family. The smallest battery pack would be more than enough. Too bad we can't afford it now. But I will definitely think about it in the future.


What on earth led you to that conclusion? I appreciate the US society is overtly reliant on cars, as ensured by successive governments. But even if you do need two cars, neither of them have to be a truck. An electric vehicle would serve fine as a 2nd car but, again, why does it have to be a "truck"?

I live in an area with somewhat poor public transport. There are 180 families in the estate, and enough parking for 1,5 cars for each house. Yet, there are always vacant spots, indicating the vast majority "only" has 1 car, even though almost every family has 2 working parents and a couple of kids. How does that work? The same way the kids go to school, meet their friends or attend sporting activities: By utilising a bicycle. I bicycle to work most days, it's a nice 20 minute ride. Others bicycle to the nearest metro, some bicycle for almost an hour to reach work; all in all, roughly 50% of all daily commute in this nations capitol is done by bicycle. A second car is a luxury few wish to spend money on, opting instead to use the money on something else. Like a 3rd annual vacation, a summer house or something else.

But if you wish to spend money on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th car that is totally up to you. But there's no law saying one them must be an outstretched middle finger to society, the planet and your fellow motorists.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:00 pm

As much as I want to hate this thing, it is kind of growing on me. Electric vs 16MPG ICE, Curb weight 6,000 lbs vs current 4,500 lbs , Towing capacity 14,000lbs max vs current 5,000 lbs, doable.

It would be interesting to know how easy to powder coat this thing.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:04 pm

Tempted as I was to report your post for it's petty insults, I will simply dismantle it instead. :twisted:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Ah, now I get it. You are comparing the price of one car in Europe, against the price of two vehicles in North America.

WildcatYXU wrote:
Duh, good morning, what did you expect? The European Tommy considered my truck to be too expensive as a tool. So I assured him that my truck wasn't all that expensive compared to his vehicle.
I understand you perfectly. Would you like to consider it from the perspective of the average African tribesman? All of a sudden your "cheap" vehicles are beyond his reach. But that isn't really relevant, and neither is your comparison.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
I stupidly thought it was about the price of one capable vehicle that does 99% of what you need (say a Passat Estate Wagon) versus the cost of two vehicles, one of which most of the time guzzles gas whilst transporting nothing more than a pampered driver. Or sits on a driveway doing nothing 364 days of the year.
As a ex-pat surely you know that Europe has plenty of high-rollers who can afford a two-vehicle lifestyle, and yet mostly they see trucks as something for genuine tradesmen.

WildcatYXU wrote:
Living in a city where the public transportation sucks and having several working persons in a family requires several vehicles in a family.
So?
I live in a household with four adults, and because we live in a remote location we have four vehicles. Here's the thing; not one of them is a truck. :o
The kids drive sub-compacts, the missus has a shopping trolley, and I've got an estate wagon/motorway cruiser with a towbar. All the bases are covered.
But when I built a two storey extension I hired a van, or got the materials delivered.
WildcatYXU wrote:
Did you get it or you need some more help to understand?
Et tu, Brute?

WildcatYXU wrote:
So instead of a compact vehicle that would only carry it's users arse to work and do nothing else there is a truck that does quite a bit more.
You forgot the auviliary verb "can". Your truck, like many others, "can" do a lot more. But does it? And how often?
And before you answer that from a personal perspective, it's not about what you and your household do with your truck; it's about what the average dude does with his ego massaging road monster. This isn't personal, and I don't know why you have taken it as such.
WildcatYXU wrote:
I understand it may be a problem to comprehend this for you, but that's really not my problem.
There ya go again....

WildcatYXU wrote:
You can keep your virtue signalling for yourself. You know, coming from the land of "I just spent a weekend in Rome, I didn't want to go but Ryanair had tickets for 10 pounds" it sounds less than sincere.
Yes, if I was the sort of person who drives a Prius for show, whilst enjoying rampant consumerism in other fields, you would have a point. Except that's not me, so spare the personal attack. Again. :roll:
As for what the average European gets up to, flying to Rome for the weekend. I can only apologise for them. They would also incur my wrath for such wasteful behavior. As do the so-called business flyers who fly everywhere, when an e-mail is all that is required.

I'll leave the last words to you.
WildcatYXU wrote:
On a second thought, it (a truck?) sounds rather like a truckload of bullshit.
:wave:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
As much as I want to hate this thing, it is kind of growing on me. Electric vs 16MPG ICE, Curb weight 6,000 lbs vs current 4,500 lbs ,
Towing capacity 14,000lbs max vs current 5,000 lbs, doable.

It would be interesting to know how easy to powder coat this thing.


That's about 2700 kg which would leave about 800 kg of available weight for passengers + cargo/trailer with cargo before hitting car driver's license (B class) total max weight of
3500 kg in the European Union. Towing capacity is more or less irrelevant since you can hardly tow anything anyway due to the weight limits mentioned above.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
JJJ
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:16 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
As much as I want to hate this thing, it is kind of growing on me. Electric vs 16MPG ICE, Curb weight 6,000 lbs vs current 4,500 lbs ,
Towing capacity 14,000lbs max vs current 5,000 lbs, doable.

It would be interesting to know how easy to powder coat this thing.


That's about 2700 kg which would leave about 800 kg of available weight for passengers + cargo/trailer with cargo before hitting car driver's license (B class) total max weight of
3500 kg in the European Union. Towing capacity is more or less irrelevant since you can hardly tow anything anyway due to the weight limits mentioned above.


I would be more concerned about pedestrian safety than about weight.

If the LR defender had to be cut from production I can't see that thing passing the pedestrian hit tests.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:38 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Tempted as I was to report your post for it's petty insults, I will simply dismantle it instead. :twisted:


So let's see how is it: You reply to my post in a sarcastic/patronizing tone, then you get offended when called out on it. Interesting. Aren't you my brother by any chance? That's his usual behaviour. And no, you didn't dismantle anything. You just made the pile even higher.
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:14 pm

B777LRF wrote:
What on earth led you to that conclusion? I appreciate the US society is overtly reliant on cars, as ensured by successive governments. But even if you do need two cars, neither of them have to be a truck. An electric vehicle would serve fine as a 2nd car but, again, why does it have to be a "truck"?


I tried to explain it before, but apparently I wasn't clear enough. The main vehicle in the family is a midsize car driven by Mrs. Wildcat. I chose this truck I drive now as a second vehicle in the family because it offered added value over a second compact commuter car in the family while being only about 3k CAD more expensive than the compacts we considered when picking the second vehicle. It helped me to do a lot of work around the house while sparing me the extra tasks with logistics. An electric crew cab truck would not only do the same, but it would be an excellent platform for the occasional trip to Toronto instead of the ICE equipped midsize car. And all that at price that's similar to electric car prices. From my point of view an unbeatable deal.

B777LRF wrote:
I live in an area with somewhat poor public transport. There are 180 families in the estate, and enough parking for 1,5 cars for each house. Yet, there are always vacant spots, indicating the vast majority "only" has 1 car, even though almost every family has 2 working parents and a couple of kids. How does that work? The same way the kids go to school, meet their friends or attend sporting activities: By utilising a bicycle. I bicycle to work most days, it's a nice 20 minute ride. Others bicycle to the nearest metro, some bicycle for almost an hour to reach work; all in all, roughly 50% of all daily commute in this nations capitol is done by bicycle. A second car is a luxury few wish to spend money on, opting instead to use the money on something else. Like a 3rd annual vacation, a summer house or something else.


Well, you see, I dare to say your somewhat poor public transport would be likely considered excellent around here. For example, cycling to the closest metro station from here would be slightly impractical. It's 180km's from here. Also, walking or cycling to work year round would be impractical here, as we have negative daily mean temperatures 4 months a year and a yearly average of 2 meters of snow. And the city isn't the best as far as cleaning the sidewalks is concerned. So you have to be equipped for it.

B777LRF wrote:
But if you wish to spend money on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th car that is totally up to you. But there's no law saying one them must be an outstretched middle finger to society, the planet and your fellow motorists.


I believe my my compact truck with a 2.5 litre engine is no more an outstretched middle finger to society, the planet and my fellow motorists than a Porsche or a BMW M5. And yet a have to see you criticizing these in your posts. If you do, I stand to be corrected.
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Alias1024
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:22 pm

It looks like a DeLorean and an El Camino had a child.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:33 pm

From a 'green' point of view I also believe that the best outcome is that just about everyone drives the vehicle they like (and that drivers support a renewable electric system). The only limitation I see coming is that as fully automated vehicles come on line the fastest lanes of the freeway system will be reserved for them. Two or three of those 12 foot wide lanes plus one shoulder will be reduced to 9 foot lanes and there will be an extra one or two lanes. Safe distances will be able to be substantially reduced and capacity of freeways will be increased. And in towns speed of vehicles will be reduced generally to 20-25 mph, but through time will be reduced by eliminating so much of the stopped traffic. Anyway I like to dream.
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JJJ
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:37 pm

Okay, so can anyone explain why the smaller, worse performing Tesla model Y starts at 8k more expensive than this monstrosity despite supposedly having 80% commonality with the model 3?
 
drew777
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:20 pm

JJJ wrote:
Okay, so can anyone explain why the smaller, worse performing Tesla model Y starts at 8k more expensive than this monstrosity despite supposedly having 80% commonality with the model 3?


Small body shop: Flat pieces of steel bent in straight lines will reducing the amount of expensive dies and tooling. I'm thinking this will feature larger parts with less welding robots. Car companies often build an entire new body shop when a new model comes out.

No paint shop: No pretreatment and ecoat systems. No PVC sealer robot zones. No curing ovens. No top coat. No cavity wax. No paint shop labor. No CapEx

Obviously battery cost has to come down as well. With the purchase of Maxwell I think some improvements are just around the corner. They are planning a battery tech day next year.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:51 pm

seat64k wrote:
I don't understand why it has to be either extreme in Europe. In South Africa, we've always had a wide variety of small (half tonne) pickups (called "utility") that are based on small cards - VW Golf (mk 1), Mazda 323, Opel Corsa, Datsun/Nissan Sunny. They have the same small engines - typically 1.2-1.8L 4cyl, and fuel economy fall somewhere between slightly worse and the same as the sedan counterparts, depending on what kind of cover you put on the back.

There has also always been larger (1 tonne) utilites based on larger sedans - from the 70s Colt (2000?), Opel/Holden Commodore, Ford Cortina/Sierra/Falcon. The Cortina utility was available in everything from a 1.6L 4-cyl to 3L v6 engines.


Those exist in Europe as well, but are nowhere near as common as the smaller bakkies are in South Africa. And I'm not sure there are any in production currently. Small vans like the VW Caddy or Renault Kangoo have been more popular, since your cargo is more protected. And people who are looking for a smaller pickup are more likely to go for one based on a VW Transporter or Ford Transit or similar.
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:11 am

187,000 deposits in 3 days. I told you it would sell. Tesla as I mentioned will only be able to build 200,000 to 300,000 of these worldwide per year. That’s a piece of cake compared to GM, Ford, and Ram, which each sells 1 million to 1.4 million per year, each.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:32 am

WildcatYXU wrote:
I believe my my compact truck with a 2.5 litre engine is no more an outstretched middle finger to society, the planet and my fellow motorists than a Porsche or a BMW M5. And yet a have to see you criticizing these in your posts. If you do, I stand to be corrected.


If you're driving a relatively economical compact truck (whatever that is), why are you feeling singled out? My ire is towards the oversized monstrosities with a fuel economy not much better than an Abrams tank, driven by urbanities who think it provides them the image of a frontier type.

As for the M5 and "a" Porsche, well, it depends. I've nothing against most Zuffenhausen products, and appreciate them building idiocies such as the Cayennne is funding the development of 911s and Boxsters, but their SUVs leaves me utterly cold and, yes, I do find them an outstretched middle finger too. Same way I do about the X5 and X6, particularly the M versions. The M5 (E63/RS6) I do like, however, even though it is way over the top by any sane measurement. But you can drive one below the radar, if you'll allow me the expression, something which is utterly impossible with a huge "truck". You can even park one in most parking spaces this side of the pond, something which would be a major challenge in a full-size "truck". And it's got way, way better economy than the aforementioned "trucks".
Signature. You just read one.
 
JJJ
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:38 am

drew777 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Okay, so can anyone explain why the smaller, worse performing Tesla model Y starts at 8k more expensive than this monstrosity despite supposedly having 80% commonality with the model 3?


Small body shop: Flat pieces of steel bent in straight lines will reducing the amount of expensive dies and tooling. I'm thinking this will feature larger parts with less welding robots. Car companies often build an entire new body shop when a new model comes out.

No paint shop: No pretreatment and ecoat systems. No PVC sealer robot zones. No curing ovens. No top coat. No cavity wax. No paint shop labor. No CapEx

Obviously battery cost has to come down as well. With the purchase of Maxwell I think some improvements are just around the corner. They are planning a battery tech day next year.


If battery costs are going down, they should be going down for model Y too which is expected just 3 months earlier.

I really don't think paint and stamp savings account for 8K difference on a much bigger vehicle with plenty of expensive goodies the Y doesn't have (charging ports for the ATV, bulletproof whatever, etc.)

Nothing adds up here, and seeing that 2 years ago they premiered the Semi and Roadster for which no further news have been heard about I feel this is more about bulking up on reservations than anything else.
 
slider
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:27 pm

Well, if the demand to have non-curved and simple steel panels stamped out was a design requirement, why? And why use that thickness? 3mm is thick, way more than traditional auto sheet metal, which also adds serious weight. Why add weight to an electric vehicle? Go for the cheap and easy buildability?

That low angle of the A pillar also makes me wonder how visibility is impacted--it can't be good. The flat rake of the windshield alone would be troubling.

Ah, Elon Musk, it's unique, I'll give you that. But that doesn't mean viable.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:48 pm

B777LRF wrote:

As for the M5 and "a" Porsche, well, it depends. I've nothing against most Zuffenhausen products, and appreciate them building idiocies such as the Cayennne is funding the development of 911s and Boxsters, but their SUVs leaves me utterly cold and, yes, I do find them an outstretched middle finger too. Same way I do about the X5 and X6, particularly the M versions. The M5 (E63/RS6) I do like, however, even though it is way over the top by any sane measurement. But you can drive one below the radar, if you'll allow me the expression, something which is utterly impossible with a huge "truck". You can even park one in most parking spaces this side of the pond, something which would be a major challenge in a full-size "truck". And it's got way, way better economy than the aforementioned "trucks".


And this is where you're wrong. According to fueleconomy.gov, the current BMW M5 has a fuel economy equal to the V8 powered RAM 1500, worse than the Pentastar V6 powered RAM 1500 and much worse than the VM Motori turbodiesel powered RAM 1500. Heck, that diesel truck is only 0.6l/100km worse than the base 530i with the 2 litre engine. Comparison to trucks sold in Europe that are exclusively diesel is even more interesting. The L200 with the weaker engine has a similar fuel economy as the Skoda 105L I used to drive 30 years ago had. And better compared to the Opel Kadett GLS I drove when I sold the Skoda. But no, trucks are bad...
And as far as parking is concerned, it is a problem with any larger car in Europe. I drove a BMW525 wagon during my old country visit in July and there were some parking spaces quite difficult to gen into.
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drew777
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:52 pm

JJJ wrote:
If battery costs are going down, they should be going down for model Y too which is expected just 3 months earlier.


It's an interesting problem they have coming. So you have a new dry cell battery that is superior to what you are currently using. You can't convert all the battery production lines overnight. Do you introduce it solely in new models? Do you try to convert your higher end products first? Put it in low volume products like the truck and roadster? If you announce that a current model is getting the new tech soon, sales will fall off a cliff.

I think the semi and truck are only viable when the upcoming battery tech is ready.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:05 pm

I hope Musk builds an innovative solar-powered van camper/minibus, now that van life is catching up in California. There aren't many stock van campers in the US and custom-built ones are super expensive and built with house building materials.

Interestingly latest VW camper is named California but sold only in Europe. Minibus remained a concept for last 20 years.
 
Draken21fx
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:11 pm

Have no idea about cars. Always a motorbike person but I am very curious what score the Cybertruck will achieve on pedestrian collision tests. I know that a lot of work has gone into bonnets and front bumpers to mitigate the risk to pedestrians (and bikers) but this thing seems to be designed to chop body parts off.
 
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akiss20
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:19 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
187,000 deposits in 3 days. I told you it would sell. Tesla as I mentioned will only be able to build 200,000 to 300,000 of these worldwide per year. That’s a piece of cake compared to GM, Ford, and Ram, which each sells 1 million to 1.4 million per year, each.


$100 refundable deposits aren’t the same thing as sales. If they were multi-thousand dollar non-refundable deposits like for the Model 3 maybe, but a $100 refundable deposit is little more than a license to brag on social media that you “pre-ordered the cyber truck” and a way for Tesla’s marketing department to get large, impressive sounding numbers.
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are
 
drew777
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:50 pm

Draken21fx wrote:
Have no idea about cars. Always a motorbike person but I am very curious what score the Cybertruck will achieve on pedestrian collision tests. I know that a lot of work has gone into bonnets and front bumpers to mitigate the risk to pedestrians (and bikers) but this thing seems to be designed to chop body parts off.


The USA has no pedestrian safety standards. Perhaps they don't plan to sell it in Europe.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:07 pm

res pedestrian safety: Has anyone read how the newer semi-autonomous vehicles are doing? My RAV4 has such a system, I imagine the Teslas have a better system. It has been established that pedestrian survival increases dramatically as collision speed is reduced.
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Francoflier
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:26 pm

I don't know about pedestrian safety (I don't think any truck/SUV is particularly good at it anyway), but I have to wonder about crash safety...

Those thick and flat steel plates seem pretty unforgiving, I doubt they'd absorb a lot of energy in a crash.

I'm also surprised they've sold that many already. I suppose it's in the eyes of the beholder and all that, and there's probably an 'Apple effect' at play when it comes to Tesla. People will buy anything they come up with regardless of what it is or looks like.

These kind of, uh, polarizing looks tend to hurt sales, which is why most manufacturers opt for much blander looks. Whereas that might seem a self-inflicted wound for Tesla, I'd wage that they might not have the manufacturing capacity to handle many more orders anyway, which might be why they didn't fear going, ermm, creative.
The great thing about the electric architecture is that it's pretty easy to redesign the body later on if required.

I still think it looks silly.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:31 pm

A post script regarding automobile design. The old scheme was 3 boxes, trunk, passenger, and motor. Alternative was the turtle, engine and passenger compartments, but sloped down for the trunk area. Current design is closer to the later. But given electric powered vehicles an engine compartment is superfluous. The Tesla pickup may be the most logical way to build an electric pickup, with modifications for the primary user - suburban, tradesman, hauler, true SUV. Likewise sedans and crossover SUVs may be due a dramatic redesign. For town use an automobile that is going to be used less than 100 miles a day and never going over 45 miles an hour could be redesigned to dramatically reduce building costs, fit into tight parking spaces, haul kids and groceries - or be a rent by the half hour shared car. It may look more like a mini-Tesla pickup than an S, 3, or Y Tesla. And a hell of a lot cheaper.
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na
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:21 pm

I first thought about a marketing gag. Is this thing serious? Musk getting desperate? Who wants such a hideous, brutal vehicle beside pimps, wannabe-Warlords, second-rate rappers and similar superfluous creatures?
 
na
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:22 pm

Elon, donate one of these to St. Greta!
 
M564038
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:05 pm

200,000 so far.

na wrote:
I first thought about a marketing gag. Is this thing serious? Musk getting desperate? Who wants such a hideous, brutal vehicle beside pimps, wannabe-Warlords, second-rate rappers and similar superfluous creatures?
 
drew777
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:12 pm

M564038 wrote:
200,000 so far


Sucks I have to wait 2-3 years!
 
THS214
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:04 pm

Kno wrote:
seb146 wrote:
There are two kinds of truck owners in the United States:

I need to get building materials from here to there
I have to take my child to soccer practice and it makes me feel safe

This is neither of those markets.....


There are dozens of reasons to own a pick up truck and very few people who do fit into either of those categories.


Tell us those dozens of reasons? You need it for work and you have a van. Thinks on a pickup can be stolen easily. Family car... you might think about safety, seatbelts etc comfort. Need to get rid of some stuff, just do it more often and if its something big (like once in five years) rent a proper vehicle.
 
drew777
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:36 pm

THS214 wrote:
Thinks on a pickup can be stolen easily.


Image

:scratchchin:
 
Kno
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:02 pm

THS214 wrote:
Kno wrote:
seb146 wrote:
There are two kinds of truck owners in the United States:

I need to get building materials from here to there
I have to take my child to soccer practice and it makes me feel safe

This is neither of those markets.....


There are dozens of reasons to own a pick up truck and very few people who do fit into either of those categories.


Tell us those dozens of reasons? You need it for work and you have a van. Thinks on a pickup can be stolen easily. Family car... you might think about safety, seatbelts etc comfort. Need to get rid of some stuff, just do it more often and if its something big (like once in five years) rent a proper vehicle.


The pick up can do almost everything the van can do (get a cover if the open bed is an issue), A LOT of things the van CANT do (whose hooking up a 20k goose neck to a van? or safely towing a heavy bumper trailer?), with similar, maybe even better MPG, and I can have the creature comforts of a well equipped car. The van is doing to be slow as hell, ugly as hell, bare bones on features, and have obnoxious handling and poor off road and snow performance.

Yes I'm aware there are pockets of the country where rednecks drive trucks for fun and yes I'm aware most truck owners aren't maxing out their trucks capacity every time they hit the road - but if you're using it for anything truck related even once or twice a month it makes a lot more sense than renting. They also tend to hold their value much better than cars. There are a variety lively hoods and lifestyles where owning a pickup makes economical sense, beyond I throw tools in or send the kids to soccer, asking me to educate the forum on that is like asking me to educate the forum on the sky being blue.
 
SanDiegoLover
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:33 pm

Nickola Motors gave Tesla a truck design to use after seeing what Tesla offered. It’s a more traditional design.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nikolatrevor ... 52/photo/1

Image
 
mham001
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Re: Tesla Truck: What the Hell?

Tue Nov 26, 2019 7:39 pm

B777LRF wrote:

PS
I was once given a F-150 as a rental in the US. With distance best measured in light-years, it was the worst vehicle I've ever had the displeasure of being subjected to. Even the G-230D that we rode in the army offered better ride quality. Now this was a brand new F-150, but the interior quality reminded me of a Lada from the 80s, only much worse and without any of the charm. I needed to adjust the steering rack, pulled the lever for said operation, which promptly came clean off its mounting. From there, it just got progressively worse; seat back wouldn't adjust, fuel cap filler came off its mounting and, by the 3rd day, it spontaneously went into limp home mode. With the F-150 being the best selling vehicle in the US for I don't know how many years, that's all you need to know about taking vehicular advice from an American.


I don't believe this for a second. Ford makes a damned good truck, I know this because I've owned all the major brands at one time or another. So (maybe) you got a rental that was apparently treated like a rental. Yes, that is a great determination when insulting all those from another country.

"European quality". This has become another internet myth. let's get real, Europeans manufacture and buy cheap s--t cars that American consumers won't touch with a ten foot pole. What's a Renault?

Cracks me up, the people here trying to tell others what they should or should not be driving are the same ones who were telling US for years how superior was European diesel policies.

as for the van/truck thing (why does it seem so important to people who don't drive either?), I have used both for work in Europe and the US. The truck fits my needs better because you cannot have loads dumped into a van. Nor can you unload that load as easily You cannot separate the passenger compartment from odors (and noise) in a van which makes it much, much more comfortable to drive.

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