anrec80
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:04 am

seb146 wrote:
Two things:

1. Republicans want to completely do away with Social Security period because it is and "entitlement".
2. 401(k) are tied to the Stock Market. WHEN Republicans crash the economy, how is that a benefit?


Well, SS isn't an entitlement. It is something workers pay for the right to get in retirement. You do not have SS contributions - no retirement benefits. 401(k) - there are many investments. States/government can replace those with predominantly bonds funds, or manage it some other way. As long as taxpayers aren't baking any of that up.
 
N757ST
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:50 pm

seb146 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

You MAGA fans want to take away Social Security and pensions.

Would you believe that CA and NY and MA send politicians who represent their state's interests? You want them to and they do and then you complain they send politicians to represent their states' interests.


Social Security must stay - it's funded by people who are paying into it, and for most it's primary source of income in retirement. But I agree with the previous poster - public and union pensions must be replaced with 401(k) or similar ones. It's a huge drag on state and municipal finances.


Two things:

1. Republicans want to completely do away with Social Security period because it is and "entitlement".
2. 401(k) are tied to the Stock Market. WHEN Republicans crash the economy, how is that a benefit?


1) I haven’t seen a candidate campaign on that.

2) 401k plans have a lot of investment tool beyond stocks for when the democrats destroy the economy.
 
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DL717
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:07 pm

N757ST wrote:
seb146 wrote:
anrec80 wrote:

Social Security must stay - it's funded by people who are paying into it, and for most it's primary source of income in retirement. But I agree with the previous poster - public and union pensions must be replaced with 401(k) or similar ones. It's a huge drag on state and municipal finances.


Two things:

1. Republicans want to completely do away with Social Security period because it is and "entitlement".
2. 401(k) are tied to the Stock Market. WHEN Republicans crash the economy, how is that a benefit?


1) I haven’t seen a candidate campaign on that.

2) 401k plans have a lot of investment tool beyond stocks for when the democrats destroy the economy.


That’s because #1 is a false claim, I don’t know of any Republicans who want to get rid of Social Security. Republicans want a better return on the investment to keep it a going concern.

People who don’t understand investing don’t get #2. :yes:
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:08 pm

PPVRA wrote:
Rural folks in the south stay away from cities like Atlanta like it’s the plague. They’re most certainly not resentful of anything.

I'm guessing that's why rural areas voted to make America great again? Because they're doing so well (better than the cities) that they feel the need to go back to a different era?

anrec80 wrote:
All that while Southern states do a lot of work in those departments.
What good is it to be fiscally conservative and business friendly if you won't take care of your residents? What good is it to bring chemical plants (as an example) if you're letting them pollute with no regards to safety? What good is it to provide jobs for your residents when you believe that $7.25 is good enough? What's the point of wanting families to reproduce (even forcing them to carry fetuses to term) if once the babies are born you won't provide any form of assistance?

Being fiscally conservative shouldn't come at the expense of overall life quality. THAT is why high tax states like CA, NY, MD, and WA have higher GDP (nominal and per capita) and quality of life than many Southern states, with only Texas, Virginia, and Florida rising above in some aspects. Look at the bottom 5-10, and about half will be Southern states (AR, AL, MS, KY, and WV).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:21 pm

As far as the "south" - Deep South (AL, MS, LA along with AR) is still a dump for the most part (Alabama have Huntsville, but even that is being prop up by federal funding aka defense industry). For Georgia there's Metro Atlanta and there's the rest of the state. For NC while RDU along with Charlotte are growing, even places like Piedmont Triad are doing nowhere as well. Then there's SC aka Alabama East :duck:

As for Texas - it's not even "south" once you get out of East Texas (Approximately anywhere East of I-45/US-75). West of I-35 Texas feels more like Southwest (aka NM or Arizona) than the south, while south of San Antonio (more or less the area South of US-90 west of San Antonio and East/Southeast of I-37) it's Mexico north. Same for Florida - while the panhandle area along with Jacksonville is definitely "south", once you reach central Florida (Tampa/Orlando) it's New York South, then we all know Miami is Caribbean North.

I personally do disagree with "The South's Economy is Falling Behind". On one hand, the growth of the south is highly overrated as they're heavily limited to urban areas. On the other hand, I don't see how the South is fairing any better or worse in that regard compare to, let say, Midwestern "Rust Belt".
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seb146
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:07 pm

DL717 wrote:
N757ST wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Two things:

1. Republicans want to completely do away with Social Security period because it is and "entitlement".
2. 401(k) are tied to the Stock Market. WHEN Republicans crash the economy, how is that a benefit?


1) I haven’t seen a candidate campaign on that.

2) 401k plans have a lot of investment tool beyond stocks for when the democrats destroy the economy.


That’s because #1 is a false claim, I don’t know of any Republicans who want to get rid of Social Security. Republicans want a better return on the investment to keep it a going concern.

People who don’t understand investing don’t get #2. :yes:


401(k) are tied, at least in part, to the Stock Market. However good or bad big business does, that is how retirees do. And, yes, Republicans want to gut Social Security. They have wanted to cut Social Security for years.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... l-security
https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghil ... -security/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghil ... the-beast/

Keep cutting programs that actually have ROI and actually work because Republicans.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:14 pm

anrec80 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

You MAGA fans want to take away Social Security and pensions.

Would you believe that CA and NY and MA send politicians who represent their state's interests? You want them to and they do and then you complain they send politicians to represent their states' interests.


Social Security must stay - it's funded by people who are paying into it, and for most it's primary source of income in retirement. But I agree with the previous poster - public and union pensions must be replaced with 401(k) or similar ones. It's a huge drag on state and municipal finances.



are you serious? so if the stock market tanks, everybody screwed?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:44 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
are you serious? so if the stock market tanks, everybody screwed?

No different than depending on pension from a company that can go bellyup, which means no more income.

The advantage of a 401k is that it offers variety to make your money grow and lock those gains. And as more people start investing in mutual funds from 401ks the value is guaranteed to increase or remain stable enough that losses are limited in the event of a downturn. It would take a massive stock crash for your 401k to lose its worth and be worth less than what you put in.

And unlike a pension, a 401k check can be adjusted to what you need rather than a predetermined amount.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
mham001
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:28 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
As far as tech, most of the people in Silicon Valley are transplants from somewhere else. A lot of them from the south, mid-west and other states (and other countries). It isn't some incredible K-12 education system California has built that powers and sustains silicon valley. Far from it, they benefit from the education system of everywhere else, too, including the South, and tremendously.


There are a lot of transplants but it isn’t ‘most of’ the people, for crying out loud. Those transplants are the cream of the crop from wherever they’re from but you are putting all CA education under one hat - that’s completely inaccurate as everything depends on property tax revenues in CA. Many public schools in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties have linkages with local firms and have advanced placement programs far better than some local private schools offer. In my graduating class of about 450, more than 30 kids went off to top east coast universities and another 70-80 went to Stanford and top UCs.


You're just full of misinformation. Yes, it is indeed "most people". At some point you will have to admit that California liberal policies are not going the way people had hoped.

40% of Santa Clara County (Silicon Valley) residents are not even born in this country. 'foreign born santa clara county'

And yes, California K-12 education as a whole is barely average - stop trying to highlight certain zip codes.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:56 pm

mham001 wrote:
At some point you will have to admit that California liberal policies are not going the way people had hoped.

I'm always amazed at how the CA bashers never point to any conservative state as a shining example of how conservative policies are working. It's always easy to point the finger at CA or NY and use them as an example of how liberal policies never work, but they cannot point to any uber conservative (with similar characteristics) as the poster child of conservative policies.

In today's world, K-12 is the foundation for everything. On the Wiki page for rankings on educational attainment, MT ranks first (with 93% of folks having a high school degree), but drops to 21st place in terms of people that have a bachelor's degree. The first pure conservative state to show up on the list is WY at #4 in high school graduates, but drops to 41st for bachelor's degree. Meanwhile, uber progressive VT ranks 7th in high school graduates but 8th in bachelor graduates. Out of the states, CA ranks last (at a respectable 82.5%) in high school graduates, but jumps to 15th for bachelor graduates. In front of CA is TX with 82.8% high school graduates (#50, since DC is counted as a state) but only goes as high as #30 in college graduates.

Looking at the top 10 for the high schools, the biggest state there in MN; all others are small states, which makes it easy to manage K-12. The bottom 10, you have 2 big states (CA, TX), but beside NM and NV, the rest are (you guessed it) southern states.

Looking at bachelor degree graduates, the top 10 are all liberal states (the first conservative state to show up is UT at #16); the bottom 10, excluding PR (ranked at #44) and NV, are all conservative states and save for WY and IN, are all in the south.

Graduate degree graduates paint a similar picture, with the top 10 being liberal (in this case KS is the first conservative state to show up at #20); the bottom 10, save for NV and IA (to an extent) are all conservative, and five of them are in the south (AR, MS, WV, LA, OK).

So once again, please post evidence that a conservative state is flourishing with policies that are the complete opposite of California's.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
mham001
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:28 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
mham001 wrote:
At some point you will have to admit that California liberal policies are not going the way people had hoped.

I'm always amazed at how the CA bashers never point to any conservative state as a shining example of how conservative policies are working. It's always easy to point the finger at CA or NY and use them as an example of how liberal policies never work, but they cannot point to any uber conservative (with similar characteristics) as the poster child of conservative policies.

In today's world, K-12 is the foundation for everything. On the Wiki page for rankings on educational attainment, MT ranks first (with 93% of folks having a high school degree), but drops to 21st place in terms of people that have a bachelor's degree. The first pure conservative state to show up on the list is WY at #4 in high school graduates, but drops to 41st for bachelor's degree. Meanwhile, uber progressive VT ranks 7th in high school graduates but 8th in bachelor graduates. Out of the states, CA ranks last (at a respectable 82.5%) in high school graduates, but jumps to 15th for bachelor graduates. In front of CA is TX with 82.8% high school graduates (#50, since DC is counted as a state) but only goes as high as #30 in college graduates.

Looking at the top 10 for the high schools, the biggest state there in MN; all others are small states, which makes it easy to manage K-12. The bottom 10, you have 2 big states (CA, TX), but beside NM and NV, the rest are (you guessed it) southern states.

Looking at bachelor degree graduates, the top 10 are all liberal states (the first conservative state to show up is UT at #16); the bottom 10, excluding PR (ranked at #44) and NV, are all conservative states and save for WY and IN, are all in the south.

Graduate degree graduates paint a similar picture, with the top 10 being liberal (in this case KS is the first conservative state to show up at #20); the bottom 10, save for NV and IA (to an extent) are all conservative, and five of them are in the south (AR, MS, WV, LA, OK).

So once again, please post evidence that a conservative state is flourishing with policies that are the complete opposite of California's.


You just did so yourself with the K-12 stats. K-12, the only thing I mentioned. I agree, there are very good universities in California, one of two reasons why I've hesitated leaving.

What I said the first time, in the context of raising native-born children, California K-12 education is barely average....except you apparently confused yourself by including college degrees. I have no idea what that has to do with what I wrote. But I admit, I was actually wrong by giving the state the benefit of the doubt. Turns out, the 2019 Math and Reading tests indicate California students in Grades 4 and 8 score "Significantly lower than National public" in EVERY metric according to the government. https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profi ... ear=2019R3, Generally in the bottom 10.

BTW, while I don't generally jump to the Red State/Blue State thing you have engulfed yourself, that link also points to some positive data that the the "Red State" Haters are not going to appreciate - on the topic of the miserable South, Mississippi, Florida and Texas children are learning the 3 Rs better than California kids. And (probably with less money).
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:33 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
are you serious? so if the stock market tanks, everybody screwed?

No different than depending on pension from a company that can go bellyup, which means no more income.

The advantage of a 401k is that it offers variety to make your money grow and lock those gains. And as more people start investing in mutual funds from 401ks the value is guaranteed to increase or remain stable enough that losses are limited in the event of a downturn. It would take a massive stock crash for your 401k to lose its worth and be worth less than what you put in.

And unlike a pension, a 401k check can be adjusted to what you need rather than a predetermined amount.


It's a little more complicated than that. The government monitors pension accounts, I take it you don't have a pension. every year they send a notification that the funds are secure. if the funds are not secure, THAT'S when you have to worry. At least you are warned and can go work for someone else. when airlines go belly up, the government whos have been watching the pensions get involved. If a company files for bankruptcy, then the government can reduce the amount of the pension one receives. That is why most UA workers got 75% of their pensions. I worked for CO, EA, DL. they all kept me informed about my pension was not secure. EA I was told the funds weren't secure so I went to work for CO I was told by the government that co pension wasn't secure so I went and worked for DL after CO filed for bankruptcy three times. DL is the only carrier I have worked for, where my pension was secure even when they filed for bankruptcy. Obviously you have to trust the company, but if the government telling you your pension is secure, then you are fine until they tell you they are not.

I also have 401k for all three companies I worked for, EA stock I lost when they went out of business, CO stock, I lost when it went down to 1 cent, through one of their three bankruptcy. DL I still have thought, I lost a considerable amount when they filed for bankruptcy. I got the stock every year until I retired. It was only after I retired, was I able to park the money for it to be safe. Big mistake cause DL stock went up up up. but given my history with airline stock. I didn't have a choice. I had to have a sure thing.

so, live and learn, I would take a pension, over a 401k. you really should diversify. and park some money, and do real estate. While everything goes u and down. real estate, I have made more money off of than the stock market, but considering the field, I was in. I'm sure others had better experiences.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:39 pm

mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
PPVRA wrote:
As far as tech, most of the people in Silicon Valley are transplants from somewhere else. A lot of them from the south, mid-west and other states (and other countries). It isn't some incredible K-12 education system California has built that powers and sustains silicon valley. Far from it, they benefit from the education system of everywhere else, too, including the South, and tremendously.


There are a lot of transplants but it isn’t ‘most of’ the people, for crying out loud. Those transplants are the cream of the crop from wherever they’re from but you are putting all CA education under one hat - that’s completely inaccurate as everything depends on property tax revenues in CA. Many public schools in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties have linkages with local firms and have advanced placement programs far better than some local private schools offer. In my graduating class of about 450, more than 30 kids went off to top east coast universities and another 70-80 went to Stanford and top UCs.


You're just full of misinformation. Yes, it is indeed "most people". At some point you will have to admit that California liberal policies are not going the way people had hoped.

40% of Santa Clara County (Silicon Valley) residents are not even born in this country. 'foreign born santa clara county'

And yes, California K-12 education as a whole is barely average - stop trying to highlight certain zip codes.


And of the 38.1% (not 40) google quoted you who are foreign-born, how many are under 25 and the essentially grew up in Santa Clara County? That makes them, guess what, locals, and not transplants. No, they don’t look like your daughter or whatever, but they are just as ‘from’ the south bay as your kids. FFS, the mental gymnastics required to stretch anything into your worldview..
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N757ST
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:18 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
are you serious? so if the stock market tanks, everybody screwed?

No different than depending on pension from a company that can go bellyup, which means no more income.

The advantage of a 401k is that it offers variety to make your money grow and lock those gains. And as more people start investing in mutual funds from 401ks the value is guaranteed to increase or remain stable enough that losses are limited in the event of a downturn. It would take a massive stock crash for your 401k to lose its worth and be worth less than what you put in.

And unlike a pension, a 401k check can be adjusted to what you need rather than a predetermined amount.


It's a little more complicated than that. The government monitors pension accounts, I take it you don't have a pension. every year they send a notification that the funds are secure. if the funds are not secure, THAT'S when you have to worry. At least you are warned and can go work for someone else. when airlines go belly up, the government whos have been watching the pensions get involved. If a company files for bankruptcy, then the government can reduce the amount of the pension one receives. That is why most UA workers got 75% of their pensions. I worked for CO, EA, DL. they all kept me informed about my pension was not secure. EA I was told the funds weren't secure so I went to work for CO I was told by the government that co pension wasn't secure so I went and worked for DL after CO filed for bankruptcy three times. DL is the only carrier I have worked for, where my pension was secure even when they filed for bankruptcy. Obviously you have to trust the company, but if the government telling you your pension is secure, then you are fine until they tell you they are not.

I also have 401k for all three companies I worked for, EA stock I lost when they went out of business, CO stock, I lost when it went down to 1 cent, through one of their three bankruptcy. DL I still have thought, I lost a considerable amount when they filed for bankruptcy. I got the stock every year until I retired. It was only after I retired, was I able to park the money for it to be safe. Big mistake cause DL stock went up up up. but given my history with airline stock. I didn't have a choice. I had to have a sure thing.

so, live and learn, I would take a pension, over a 401k. you really should diversify. and park some money, and do real estate. While everything goes u and down. real estate, I have made more money off of than the stock market, but considering the field, I was in. I'm sure others had better experiences.



You had your 401k invested in your own companies stock?
 
N757ST
Posts: 801
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:24 pm

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
N757ST wrote:

1) I haven’t seen a candidate campaign on that.

2) 401k plans have a lot of investment tool beyond stocks for when the democrats destroy the economy.


That’s because #1 is a false claim, I don’t know of any Republicans who want to get rid of Social Security. Republicans want a better return on the investment to keep it a going concern.

People who don’t understand investing don’t get #2. :yes:


401(k) are tied, at least in part, to the Stock Market. However good or bad big business does, that is how retirees do. And, yes, Republicans want to gut Social Security. They have wanted to cut Social Security for years.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... l-security
https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghil ... -security/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/teresaghil ... the-beast/

Keep cutting programs that actually have ROI and actually work because Republicans.


Ummm, A 401k is what you make of it. Hate big greedy companies? Point your investments toward bonds. Pensions are going away because they are expensive and non portable, as they should. With a 401k I can drive my investments the way I want to, not an administrator.
 
BN747
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:31 pm

KFTG wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
"That trend has now reversed. Since 2009, the South’s convergence has turned to divergence, as the region recorded the country’s slowest growth in output and wages, the lowest labor-force participation rate and the highest unemployment rate."


Have they tried thoughts and prayers yet?


And therein lies the problem.

Thoughts...those very thoughts are born out of the same source of their prayers.

Critical thinking would obliterate all of that ignorance. Trained Religion erects a barrier that absolutely prevents higher cognitive abilities.

Keep doing the same things as your parents, and theirs and theirs is sure to yield one guarantee...the means to feed one's self/familiy, and that is on borrowed time.


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:38 pm

Pensions are more expensive than workers, CEOs (in practice), and government commonly think. To fully fund a 50-60% pension plus a Medicare supplement takes upwards of 20% of a person's income. Good managers generally can do better than a private individual, having access a greater variety of investments. Most pensions (including Social Security which is a pension of sorts) also include disability insurance, widow(er) and orphan insurance, and often a generous death benefit. My main pension has been required to be fully funded - as all pensions ought to be. But aren't because most worker rebel at how much of their salary will go to pensions. And irresponsible CEOs and legislatures promise generous pensions, relying on future workers (and shareholders) to pay for them.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
mham001
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

There are a lot of transplants but it isn’t ‘most of’ the people, for crying out loud. Those transplants are the cream of the crop from wherever they’re from but you are putting all CA education under one hat - that’s completely inaccurate as everything depends on property tax revenues in CA. Many public schools in San Mateo and Santa Clara counties have linkages with local firms and have advanced placement programs far better than some local private schools offer. In my graduating class of about 450, more than 30 kids went off to top east coast universities and another 70-80 went to Stanford and top UCs.


You're just full of misinformation. Yes, it is indeed "most people". At some point you will have to admit that California liberal policies are not going the way people had hoped.

40% of Santa Clara County (Silicon Valley) residents are not even born in this country. 'foreign born santa clara county'

And yes, California K-12 education as a whole is barely average - stop trying to highlight certain zip codes.


And of the 38.1% (not 40) google quoted you who are foreign-born, how many are under 25 and the essentially grew up in Santa Clara County? That makes them, guess what, locals, and not transplants. No, they don’t look like your daughter or whatever, but they are just as ‘from’ the south bay as your kids. FFS, the mental gymnastics required to stretch anything into your worldview..


My 'worldview" in this discussion is that I actually live here.
I have seen a more recent local headline that says it's now 40% (trending up for years) but mach nicht. 38%, 40% It doesn't matter, your howling claim that "most" Silicon Valley residents are so-called 'native' is just bunk. And no, I don't know how many came as children and it doesn't even matter if you want to change the definitions of "local" or not because I know a very large chunk of native-born Americans in Silicon Valley are also transplants. I am one of them, although after 30+ years, I guess I am now a "local" by your new/improved Anet definition. Where do you think all those Montana high school graduates went? LOL. Keep trying though.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:07 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I also have 401k for all three companies I worked for, EA stock I lost when they went out of business, CO stock, I lost when it went down to 1 cent, through one of their three bankruptcy. DL I still have thought, I lost a considerable amount when they filed for bankruptcy. I got the stock every year until I retired. It was only after I retired, was I able to park the money for it to be safe. Big mistake cause DL stock went up up up. but given my history with airline stock. I didn't have a choice. I had to have a sure thing.

so, live and learn, I would take a pension, over a 401k. you really should diversify. and park some money, and do real estate. While everything goes u and down. real estate, I have made more money off of than the stock market, but considering the field, I was in. I'm sure others had better experiences.

Looks like you didn't diversify or didn't do homework as to where you should park your cash. You never go all in on one particular item and you try to spread it out as best as possible. It could be that some companies just don't offer good 401ks, but that's where you take matters into your own hands. Invest on an IRA/Roth IRA which DOES offer all options (mutual funds, stocks, etc.).

You say you'd take a pension. Well, say that you had retired under EA. They went belly up in 1991...where are the pensions of those who worked for EA?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:42 pm

Stock grants often come with an obligation to hold them for a certain number of years.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
N757ST
Posts: 801
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:17 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Stock grants often come with an obligation to hold them for a certain number of years.


What does that have to do with anything?
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:04 pm

Someone working for a few airlines was criticized for not have diversified his stock in those airlines. I was just pointing out that he may not have had the opportunity. A pharmacist I know had stock in K-Mart, every month she got more stock, but it all was worth less because the chain was going broke.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
N757ST
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Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:17 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Someone working for a few airlines was criticized for not have diversified his stock in those airlines. I was just pointing out that he may not have had the opportunity. A pharmacist I know had stock in K-Mart, every month she got more stock, but it all was worth less because the chain was going broke.


Stock grants and 401k investment have nothing to do with each other. Sometimes a firm will hold out a match for a predetermined amount of time but that’s it.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1073
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:54 pm

N757ST wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
No different than depending on pension from a company that can go bellyup, which means no more income.

The advantage of a 401k is that it offers variety to make your money grow and lock those gains. And as more people start investing in mutual funds from 401ks the value is guaranteed to increase or remain stable enough that losses are limited in the event of a downturn. It would take a massive stock crash for your 401k to lose its worth and be worth less than what you put in.

And unlike a pension, a 401k check can be adjusted to what you need rather than a predetermined amount.


It's a little more complicated than that. The government monitors pension accounts, I take it you don't have a pension. every year they send a notification that the funds are secure. if the funds are not secure, THAT'S when you have to worry. At least you are warned and can go work for someone else. when airlines go belly up, the government whos have been watching the pensions get involved. If a company files for bankruptcy, then the government can reduce the amount of the pension one receives. That is why most UA workers got 75% of their pensions. I worked for CO, EA, DL. they all kept me informed about my pension was not secure. EA I was told the funds weren't secure so I went to work for CO I was told by the government that co pension wasn't secure so I went and worked for DL after CO filed for bankruptcy three times. DL is the only carrier I have worked for, where my pension was secure even when they filed for bankruptcy. Obviously you have to trust the company, but if the government telling you your pension is secure, then you are fine until they tell you they are not.

I also have 401k for all three companies I worked for, EA stock I lost when they went out of business, CO stock, I lost when it went down to 1 cent, through one of their three bankruptcy. DL I still have thought, I lost a considerable amount when they filed for bankruptcy. I got the stock every year until I retired. It was only after I retired, was I able to park the money for it to be safe. Big mistake cause DL stock went up up up. but given my history with airline stock. I didn't have a choice. I had to have a sure thing.

so, live and learn, I would take a pension, over a 401k. you really should diversify. and park some money, and do real estate. While everything goes u and down. real estate, I have made more money off of than the stock market, but considering the field, I was in. I'm sure others had better experiences.



You had your 401k invested in your own companies' stock?
the pay match was, and the annual stock that was given to me was. the 401k i contributed myself was not, it was diversified.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1073
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: The South’s Economy Is Falling Behind

Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:32 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
I also have 401k for all three companies I worked for, EA stock I lost when they went out of business, CO stock, I lost when it went down to 1 cent, through one of their three bankruptcy. DL I still have thought, I lost a considerable amount when they filed for bankruptcy. I got the stock every year until I retired. It was only after I retired, was I able to park the money for it to be safe. Big mistake cause DL stock went up up up. but given my history with airline stock. I didn't have a choice. I had to have a sure thing.

so, live and learn, I would take a pension, over a 401k. you really should diversify. and park some money, and do real estate. While everything goes u and down. real estate, I have made more money off of than the stock market, but considering the field, I was in. I'm sure others had better experiences.

Looks like you didn't diversify or didn't do homework as to where you should park your cash. You never go all-in on one particular item and you try to spread it out as best as possible. It could be that some companies just don't offer good 401ks, but that's where you take matters into your own hands. Invest on an IRA/Roth IRA which DOES offer all options (mutual funds, stocks, etc.).

You say you'd take a pension. Well, say that you had retired under EA. They went belly up in 1991...where are the pensions of those who worked for EA?
It's complicated. I think your confusing 401k match, the pension and the stock they gave me each year were GIFTS from the airline and had to invest back into company stock until I retired. the 401k I put in myself, self-funded is different and I was able to diversify. I was in control because they were not gifts. Those at EA got their pension if they were fully funded. those who were not fully funded and we're being warned that their pension weren't being fully funded. lost out and I was one of those. I think 10 years after they went out of business I got 4k settlement. CO. I quit after my stock went down to 1 cent and so I voluntarily lost my pension, but it had already been warned that it was not being fully funded. DL, I took an early out package. my pension was frozen and I will get it when I turn 65. it's fully funded. so I have nothing to worry about.

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