FTMCPIUS
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Saudi aviation student kills three at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:28 pm

A U.S. official says the Florida Naval station shooting suspect was an aviation student from Saudi Arabia and authorities are investigating if the shooting was terrorism-related. Military from around the globe attend the Naval Air Station in Pensacola. The shooter opened fire in a classroom building on Friday morning. The attack left four people dead, including the assailant, and multiple people wounded. The shooting was the second at a U.S. Navy base this week.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/pensac ... index.html
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo fixed
 
ltbewr
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:42 pm

Oh boy, is this going to go bad fast with anti-Muslim and anti-Saudi hatemongering.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:50 pm

This one will be interesting to see how it plays out.

This shooter was part of a training unit from Saudi Arabia that was at the base.
This means he passed the muster of the Saudi Military.

Who was shot and why?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:57 pm

It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.
From my cold, dead hands
 
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casinterest
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:07 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.

????
From all reports, it took Sheriff;s officials from the Escambia County police force to take him down.
What Anti-Gun agenda are you pushing back on here.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
bhill
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:30 pm

Wonder how this person secured a firearm in general, and on post in particular.
Carpe Pices
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:11 pm

Well, travel ban for Niger and Mali because we need to. Let's look away at our BFFs, the Saudis.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
NIKV69
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:28 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Or the anti white guy hating minorities agenda
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:12 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Or the anti white guy hating minorities agenda


DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.

Yawn. Moose lambs are gonna hafta kill a whole lot more people to match Trumpanees shooting up mosques/sydnagogues/walmarts this past couple years. Regardless Trump's bff Saudi Arabia could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue/dissolve a journalist in acid and not lose a single supporter.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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stl07
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:48 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Or the anti white guy hating minorities agenda

Maybe if these whites didn't open fire on minorities without reason, we would have no need for these stories
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
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drew777
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:54 pm

The pro-Saudi Trump tweet is sickening. When did war loving conservatives decide to crawl up Saudis ass? I seem to recall a lot of critism when Obama was kissing their ass. You were right then... Why so quiet now?
 
jetwet1
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:46 pm

drew777 wrote:
The pro-Saudi Trump tweet is sickening. When did war loving conservatives decide to crawl up Saudis ass? I seem to recall a lot of critism when Obama was kissing their ass. You were right then... Why so quiet now?


About the same time the Republicans decided to crawl up Russia's anal cavity.

Anyways, thoughts and prayers........
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:15 pm

Saudi Arabia has always been the biggest threat to the US. Maybe 5% of Americans actually realize this. But Saudi Arabia being the No.1 threat to the US has been obvious to anyone who has paid attention for the last few decades. Meanwhile everyone still gets spooked by Iran while in reality they could care less about the US.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:15 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Saudi Arabia has always been the biggest threat to the US. Maybe 5% of Americans actually realize this. But Saudi Arabia being the No.1 threat to the US has been obvious to anyone who has paid attention for the last few decades. Meanwhile everyone still gets spooked by Iran while in reality they could care less about the US.


Saudi is also the same country where 15 out of 19 9/11 hijackers came from (and they have their flight training in...well, Florida)...but hey, Iran is the bad guy.

drew777 wrote:
The pro-Saudi Trump tweet is sickening. When did war loving conservatives decide to crawl up Saudis ass? I seem to recall a lot of critism when Obama was kissing their ass. You were right then... Why so quiet now?


IIRC Obama isn't exactly all THAT friendly to Saudi as he was cozying up to Iran.

Anyway, maybe we need to more strongly vet those Saudi students instead of worrying about some Mexicans trying to make their life better?
 
drew777
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:26 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Anyway, maybe we need to more strongly vet those Saudi students instead of worrying about some Mexicans trying to make their life better?


We need to crash the world oil economy and tell the Saudis to fuck off. Either frack frack frack to oversupply the market or make a REAL push to renewable energy.

I know I know... Let me dream!
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:10 am

drew777 wrote:
The pro-Saudi Trump tweet is sickening. When did war loving conservatives decide to crawl up Saudis ass? I seem to recall a lot of critism when Obama was kissing their ass. You were right then... Why so quiet now?


Just imagine if this guy was from one of the EU countries instead - the US would be pulling out of NATO as we speak.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:26 am

Not sure exactly what phase of training he was in, before during or after API, but NAS Pensacola hosts API for all Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, and many foreign military student pilots and flight officers. In this phase, students take multiple aerospace classes, go through water survival training, then physiology training. Afterwards, students will go to NAS Whiting and Corpus Christi (for student pilots) or stay at NAS Pensacola (for student flight officers).

I've heard plenty of second hand accounts but I don't want to throw unverified rumors around
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:19 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Let me check - a location full of weapons and still a killer could murder 3 people and injure several others. If that doesn't show that more weapons are NOT the solution I don't know.
 
afcjets
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:46 pm

BartSimpson wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Let me check - a location full of weapons and still a killer could murder 3 people and injure several others. If that doesn't show that more weapons are NOT the solution I don't know.


Which is why it really didn't turn into a mass shooting.
 
johns624
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:29 pm

BartSimpson wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Let me check - a location full of weapons and still a killer could murder 3 people and injure several others. If that doesn't show that more weapons are NOT the solution I don't know.

If you think a naval base is "full of weapons", you just don't know. Weapons are tightly controlled on military bases.
 
N583JB
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:31 pm

BartSimpson wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Let me check - a location full of weapons and still a killer could murder 3 people and injure several others. If that doesn't show that more weapons are NOT the solution I don't know.


The only people routinely armed on military bases are police officers.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:20 pm

BartSimpson wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Let me check - a location full of weapons and still a killer could murder 3 people and injure several others. If that doesn't show that more weapons are NOT the solution I don't know.


What do you think happens all day at an NAS? Aviation and aviation-related support activities. Not a lot of target practice on the rifle range...
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Cadet985
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:20 pm

Kick all the bastards out of the country. If Saudi Arabia wants us to train their pilots, then they can give us use of their bases. There’s no need to allow them into this country.
 
Concierge
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:46 pm

Cadet985 - Bin Laden founded Al Qaeda in response to the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia, with 9/11 being among the results. And, yes, the US is deploying troops to reopen an airbase in Saudi Arabia. None of this is simple and it's US-made.
 
BN747
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:18 am

johns624 wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Let me check - a location full of weapons and still a killer could murder 3 people and injure several others. If that doesn't show that more weapons are NOT the solution I don't know.

If you think a naval base is "full of weapons", you just don't know. Weapons are tightly controlled on military bases.


Most likely none at 'open' bases..which Pensacola NAS is. Meaning it is not a typical base that is entirely closed to all except authorized users.

BN747
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alfa164
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:10 am

N583JB wrote:
The only people routinely armed on military bases are police officers.


... and Saudi "students", apparently...

:roll:
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I have decided to be cremated....
 
KFTG
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:28 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.

It doesn't?

How did a foreign national obtain the weapon? Straw purchase? Craigslist? Gun show loophole? Indeed this was amazing in that it did not happen sooner. We've been saying it for years...the easiest way for a terrorist attack to occur in the US was for terrorists to buy weapons at a gun show, and we would have geniuses like the NRA to blame for it via your resistance to change *any* existing gun laws to prevent something like this from happening. Indeed there are GOP politicians on record stating just that.

I see we're trying thoughts and prayers again. Maybe it'll work this time?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:06 am

KFTG wrote:
I see we're trying thoughts and prayers again. Maybe it'll work this time?


Same as it worked all the other times? Rinse and repeat.
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aerosreenivas
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:09 am

It is hardly surprising that this sad incident took place involving a Saudi national. It is being treated as a 'Terrorist Attack' by the FBI and other security agencies.

Why?


Because, if you look at the past terrorist attacks that have taken place across the globe, most of them have involved atleast one Saudi national. The best example is of course, the 9/11 attack on the trade center. All of the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.

Despite all of that, I don't come across any of the US governments both past and present ever calling Saudi Arabia a 'Single Biggest State Sponsorer Of Terrorism'. Instead, we only hear both the political parties calling Iran that way. Even the news media also report in the same manner.

In reality, both of these nations are responsible for the unrest and terrorism taking place both in the Middle East and across the Globe.

Saudi Arabia is trying to create terror for the spread Sunni version of Islam. While Iran is trying to spread the beliefs of the Shiite version of Islam through its extremist groups like Hezbollah, Assad regime, Hamas and so on.

So it is high time that the United States put Saudi Arabia as well in the same basket as they have place Iran all this while. After this unexpected terror attack taken place in the US military zone by a airforce pilot trainee from Saudi, I hope the Saudi monarch will be held accountable for this attack and the death of Jamal Khashoggi.

I doubt Trump will be serious about it considering that he has his business interest there in Saudi Arabia.
 
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alberchico
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:52 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oting.html

So several Saudi students have also gone AWOL and are being pursued by the FBI. I'm surprised this is not getting more attention.
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ltbewr
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:41 pm

We sell the Saudis the planes to keep the military-Industrial complex happy so we have to train them. I suspect in the near future, those undergoing training will have to live like people in prisons with no or extremely limited access to the internet, to go off base, have visitors, to go to certain areas on base, and if any hint of extremest ideology, then booted home.
 
Concierge
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:51 pm

Found this on the front page of CNN - no digging: 'Navy Base Gunman bought gun legally, sources say'.

'One source said Mohammed Alshamrani purchased the weapon from a gun store earlier this year.
He obtained a hunting license, which allows a non-immigrant on a non-immigrant visa to purchase a gun, the source said'.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:18 pm

Dear USA. How many Saudis have committed mass murder in your country and how many Iraqis (and Iranians) have done the same...?

And which countries have you invaded (and your government are thinking about invading)...?

Do you think as a country you have made the right war decisions...,
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:30 pm

DL717 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7768107/FBI-hunt-missing-Saudi-soldiers-Pensacola-Naval-base-shooting.html

Ever need an example of media bias?

You think a mass shooting resulting in three deaths is major news in the USA? :rotfl: Let alone the GOP shilling for the Saudis? Much bias. Many coverup.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
winginit
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:43 pm

If the shooter had so much as a distant relative who once interacted with an Iranian Trump would be screaming his little lungs out to fire the nukes.

Alas, since it’s Saudi Arabia he turns into the Kingdom’s press secretary. Pathetic response as usual.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:20 am

ltbewr wrote:
Oh boy, is this going to go bad fast with anti-Muslim and anti-Saudi hatemongering.


To be fair thoughts and prayers don't work so this is the next level people have worked themselves up to.
 
Redd
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:03 pm

chimborazo wrote:
Dear USA. How many Saudis have committed mass murder in your country and how many Iraqis (and Iranians) have done the same...?

And which countries have you invaded (and your government are thinking about invading)...?

Do you think as a country you have made the right war decisions...,


That doesn't seem to matter to anyone. Facts have become passe.
 
Clipper727
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:03 pm

Turns out it wasn't even a terrorist attack. It sounds like a guy who snapped after being bullied and called "Porn Stache". What the.....
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:55 am

Clipper727 wrote:
Turns out it wasn't even a terrorist attack. It sounds like a guy who snapped after being bullied and called "Porn Stache". What the.....

Who says terror is ruled out? Just because he was upset about that doesn't mean that was the reason he shot everyone up. If it turns out the manifesto posted was indeed from him then there is no denying it was politically and religiously motivated
 
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casinterest
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:55 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Clipper727 wrote:
Turns out it wasn't even a terrorist attack. It sounds like a guy who snapped after being bullied and called "Porn Stache". What the.....

Who says terror is ruled out? Just because he was upset about that doesn't mean that was the reason he shot everyone up. If it turns out the manifesto posted was indeed from him then there is no denying it was politically and religiously motivated

If it was terror, was it homegrown or festered in the US. By all accounts he has been in the US for over 2 years. There were plenty of targets and plenty of "safer" areas to target his terror.

It could still be Terrorism, but it seems more personal at this point. Workplace violence maybe . He had known his targets for a long time.
The manifesto could be made out to be terror related, but this wasn't Dylan Root driving hundreds of miles to a church. This was his classroom, and classmates.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:03 am

casinterest wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Clipper727 wrote:
Turns out it wasn't even a terrorist attack. It sounds like a guy who snapped after being bullied and called "Porn Stache". What the.....

Who says terror is ruled out? Just because he was upset about that doesn't mean that was the reason he shot everyone up. If it turns out the manifesto posted was indeed from him then there is no denying it was politically and religiously motivated

If it was terror, was it homegrown or festered in the US. By all accounts he has been in the US for over 2 years. There were plenty of targets and plenty of "safer" areas to target his terror.

It could still be Terrorism, but it seems more personal at this point. Workplace violence maybe . He had known his targets for a long time.
The manifesto could be made out to be terror related, but this wasn't Dylan Root driving hundreds of miles to a church. This was his classroom, and classmates.

Known his targets for a long time? I don't know exactly what phase of training he was in but you're not really with a set group of people for an extended period of time. There are waiting pools where students may stay for a long time, but in these pools, you mainly muster and go home. Not too much interacting.

API itself is only 6 weeks and you are with that class for that time, assuming you don't roll (many Saudis roll, it's a tough course even with English being your first language and many go in swim hold.) The classes themselves and the instructors you're with aren't more than a couple weeks. They go fast. 6 classes in 4 weeks IIRC, and you only do 2 or 3 at any time. Different instructors teach different classes. Then on to physiology. That's assuming they don't shuffle training around due to student loading.

So I guess it depends on your definition of a long time. You aren't stuck in a group with people you interact with every day for months at a time. It sounds like the instructor that called him "Porn Stache" was an API instructor, so I doubt he was with the Saudi student for more than a couple weeks. Perhaps if he was a student control officer, but IDK

The Saudi students mainly keep to themselves in their free time and tend to study with other Saudis.

Just trying to paint a picture. I doubt that him being called a name by a single instructor you're not gonna interact with that long would put him over the edge. And sure it's his workplace, but it's also full of American military members. If you're gonna make a statement against America's policy on Israel blah blah, of course a military base is a prime target

Another point against "people he knew" were two of the people that died... They were enlisted, I believe the enlisted on the quarterdeck. Trust me, no students, let alone Saudi students, are going to be dealing with the sailors on the quarterdeck.

I'd be interested to see if he shot up the class where the instructor was at. I don't think so. The time of the shooting I believe is before any API academic class. And before the morning muster too, I believe, thankfully, or the body count would probably have been much higher

I'm not saying it's definitely terror related, but it's not ruled out, and I'm very skeptical of him just being a disgruntled student mad about being called a name
 
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casinterest
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:19 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Who says terror is ruled out? Just because he was upset about that doesn't mean that was the reason he shot everyone up. If it turns out the manifesto posted was indeed from him then there is no denying it was politically and religiously motivated

If it was terror, was it homegrown or festered in the US. By all accounts he has been in the US for over 2 years. There were plenty of targets and plenty of "safer" areas to target his terror.

It could still be Terrorism, but it seems more personal at this point. Workplace violence maybe . He had known his targets for a long time.
The manifesto could be made out to be terror related, but this wasn't Dylan Root driving hundreds of miles to a church. This was his classroom, and classmates.

Known his targets for a long time? I don't know exactly what phase of training he was in but you're not really with a set group of people for an extended period of time. There are waiting pools where students may stay for a long time, but in these pools, you mainly muster and go home. Not too much interacting.

API itself is only 6 weeks and you are with that class for that time, assuming you don't roll (many Saudis roll, it's a tough course even with English being your first language and many go in swim hold.) The classes themselves and the instructors you're with aren't more than a couple weeks. They go fast. 6 classes in 4 weeks IIRC, and you only do 2 or 3 at any time. Different instructors teach different classes. Then on to physiology. That's assuming they don't shuffle training around due to student loading.

So I guess it depends on your definition of a long time. You aren't stuck in a group with people you interact with every day for months at a time. It sounds like the instructor that called him "Porn Stache" was an API instructor, so I doubt he was with the Saudi student for more than a couple weeks. Perhaps if he was a student control officer, but IDK

The Saudi students mainly keep to themselves in their free time and tend to study with other Saudis.

Just trying to paint a picture. I doubt that him being called a name by a single instructor you're not gonna interact with that long would put him over the edge. And sure it's his workplace, but it's also full of American military members. If you're gonna make a statement against America's policy on Israel blah blah, of course a military base is a prime target

Another point against "people he knew" were two of the people that died... They were enlisted, I believe the enlisted on the quarterdeck. Trust me, no students, let alone Saudi students, are going to be dealing with the sailors on the quarterdeck.

I'd be interested to see if he shot up the class where the instructor was at. I don't think so. The time of the shooting I believe is before any API academic class. And before the morning muster too, I believe, thankfully, or the body count would probably have been much higher

I'm not saying it's definitely terror related, but it's not ruled out, and I'm very skeptical of him just being a disgruntled student mad about being called a name


It just doesn't add up to Terror for me. It is horrible and senseless no matter how you slice it, but 2 years invested in Aviation Training, and poof, he goes fundamental? I suppose the investigation will turn stones over. Grades? Bad Relationships? Triggering event?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:37 am

casinterest wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
If it was terror, was it homegrown or festered in the US. By all accounts he has been in the US for over 2 years. There were plenty of targets and plenty of "safer" areas to target his terror.

It could still be Terrorism, but it seems more personal at this point. Workplace violence maybe . He had known his targets for a long time.
The manifesto could be made out to be terror related, but this wasn't Dylan Root driving hundreds of miles to a church. This was his classroom, and classmates.

Known his targets for a long time? I don't know exactly what phase of training he was in but you're not really with a set group of people for an extended period of time. There are waiting pools where students may stay for a long time, but in these pools, you mainly muster and go home. Not too much interacting.

API itself is only 6 weeks and you are with that class for that time, assuming you don't roll (many Saudis roll, it's a tough course even with English being your first language and many go in swim hold.) The classes themselves and the instructors you're with aren't more than a couple weeks. They go fast. 6 classes in 4 weeks IIRC, and you only do 2 or 3 at any time. Different instructors teach different classes. Then on to physiology. That's assuming they don't shuffle training around due to student loading.

So I guess it depends on your definition of a long time. You aren't stuck in a group with people you interact with every day for months at a time. It sounds like the instructor that called him "Porn Stache" was an API instructor, so I doubt he was with the Saudi student for more than a couple weeks. Perhaps if he was a student control officer, but IDK

The Saudi students mainly keep to themselves in their free time and tend to study with other Saudis.

Just trying to paint a picture. I doubt that him being called a name by a single instructor you're not gonna interact with that long would put him over the edge. And sure it's his workplace, but it's also full of American military members. If you're gonna make a statement against America's policy on Israel blah blah, of course a military base is a prime target

Another point against "people he knew" were two of the people that died... They were enlisted, I believe the enlisted on the quarterdeck. Trust me, no students, let alone Saudi students, are going to be dealing with the sailors on the quarterdeck.

I'd be interested to see if he shot up the class where the instructor was at. I don't think so. The time of the shooting I believe is before any API academic class. And before the morning muster too, I believe, thankfully, or the body count would probably have been much higher

I'm not saying it's definitely terror related, but it's not ruled out, and I'm very skeptical of him just being a disgruntled student mad about being called a name


It just doesn't add up to Terror for me. It is horrible and senseless no matter how you slice it, but 2 years invested in Aviation Training, and poof, he goes fundamental? I suppose the investigation will turn stones over. Grades? Bad Relationships? Triggering event?

I don't know how him being in "aviation for 2 years" precludes becoming radicalized. It's not like he even made it to primary (where he actually flew), his time was spent learning English and some aerospace courses, water survival (assuming he even made it to API)... and a whole lot of waiting. I don't think you realize how much waiting there is in the pipeline. There are months of sitting around. Months. Between every phase of training. The backlog is huge.

Honestly, we are kinda arguing our own opinions at this point, and I am not even saying yours is wrong. I was mostly tackling the notion that terror has been ruled out and this was just to blame on being called a name.

Stressors? Yes, API is extremely stressful. Learning it in a language that isn't your own is even worse. Academic hold (and swim hold) was always full of Saudis. Unlike Americans, who most of the time just fail out, international students are given many more chances, but failing out does occasionally happen, and it's a huge embarrassment for them when they return home.

The stress and possibly failing out definitely could come into play, no doubt. Maybe it prodded him in one direction or another. The culture shock of living in America combined with months of sitting on your ass and thinking about who knows what plus all the stress... Yeah I can see radicalization, let's be real here. I can see multiple things.

Definitely not painting a broad brush, it doesn't have to be that way. Most are very respectful and want to be here, excited to fly. There are definitely some cultural differences. But trust me, many (probably most ?) are really upset and angry about this shooting, even calling the guy a terrorist themselves. I'm not lazily jumping on the "hurr durr he's a Muslim he must be terrorist" bandwagon
 
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casinterest
Posts: 9787
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:43 am

DeltaMD90 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Known his targets for a long time? I don't know exactly what phase of training he was in but you're not really with a set group of people for an extended period of time. There are waiting pools where students may stay for a long time, but in these pools, you mainly muster and go home. Not too much interacting.

API itself is only 6 weeks and you are with that class for that time, assuming you don't roll (many Saudis roll, it's a tough course even with English being your first language and many go in swim hold.) The classes themselves and the instructors you're with aren't more than a couple weeks. They go fast. 6 classes in 4 weeks IIRC, and you only do 2 or 3 at any time. Different instructors teach different classes. Then on to physiology. That's assuming they don't shuffle training around due to student loading.

So I guess it depends on your definition of a long time. You aren't stuck in a group with people you interact with every day for months at a time. It sounds like the instructor that called him "Porn Stache" was an API instructor, so I doubt he was with the Saudi student for more than a couple weeks. Perhaps if he was a student control officer, but IDK

The Saudi students mainly keep to themselves in their free time and tend to study with other Saudis.

Just trying to paint a picture. I doubt that him being called a name by a single instructor you're not gonna interact with that long would put him over the edge. And sure it's his workplace, but it's also full of American military members. If you're gonna make a statement against America's policy on Israel blah blah, of course a military base is a prime target

Another point against "people he knew" were two of the people that died... They were enlisted, I believe the enlisted on the quarterdeck. Trust me, no students, let alone Saudi students, are going to be dealing with the sailors on the quarterdeck.

I'd be interested to see if he shot up the class where the instructor was at. I don't think so. The time of the shooting I believe is before any API academic class. And before the morning muster too, I believe, thankfully, or the body count would probably have been much higher

I'm not saying it's definitely terror related, but it's not ruled out, and I'm very skeptical of him just being a disgruntled student mad about being called a name


It just doesn't add up to Terror for me. It is horrible and senseless no matter how you slice it, but 2 years invested in Aviation Training, and poof, he goes fundamental? I suppose the investigation will turn stones over. Grades? Bad Relationships? Triggering event?

I don't know how him being in "aviation for 2 years" precludes becoming radicalized. It's not like he even made it to primary (where he actually flew), his time was spent learning English and some aerospace courses, water survival (assuming he even made it to API)... and a whole lot of waiting. I don't think you realize how much waiting there is in the pipeline. There are months of sitting around. Months. Between every phase of training. The backlog is huge.

Honestly, we are kinda arguing our own opinions at this point, and I am not even saying yours is wrong. I was mostly tackling the notion that terror has been ruled out and this was just to blame on being called a name.

Stressors? Yes, API is extremely stressful. Learning it in a language that isn't your own is even worse. Academic hold (and swim hold) was always full of Saudis. Unlike Americans, who most of the time just fail out, international students are given many more chances, but failing out does occasionally happen, and it's a huge embarrassment for them when they return home.

The stress and possibly failing out definitely could come into play, no doubt. Maybe it prodded him in one direction or another. The culture shock of living in America combined with months of sitting on your ass and thinking about who knows what plus all the stress... Yeah I can see radicalization, let's be real here. I can see multiple things.

Definitely not painting a broad brush, it doesn't have to be that way. Most are very respectful and want to be here, excited to fly. There are definitely some cultural differences. But trust me, many (probably most ?) are really upset and angry about this shooting, even calling the guy a terrorist themselves. I'm not lazily jumping on the "hurr durr he's a Muslim he must be terrorist" bandwagon


I completely agree here, it just seems like to me, embarrassment might be more of the motivation, if he was indeed barely making it. From the reports I read he comes from a family with distinguished members of the military. Just don't know at this point, and we will have to wait for the investigators. Either way,many are dead and injured in a senseless act of violence.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills three at U.S. Naval Base

Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:33 pm

Interesting note on this issue.

While the President and White House have not openly not condemned Saudi Arabia. Operational Training for the Saudi Students in the US has been suspended.
Are they worried about something more systematic?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/10/us/p ... dents.html
— The Pentagon has suspended operational training for all Saudi military students in the United States, indefinitely halting flight instruction, firing range training and all other operations outside the classroom in the wake of a shooting last week at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida by a member of the Saudi Royal Air Force.

The suspension will affect nearly 900 Saudi students across the country, the Defense Department said on Tuesday. Classroom teaching, including language courses, will continue while Pentagon leaders review vetting procedures for all foreign military trainees. An estimated 5,200 international students in the United States will be covered by the security review.

Where ever you go, there you are.
 
bhill
Posts: 1679
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:02 pm

chimborazo wrote:
Dear USA. How many Saudis have committed mass murder in your country and how many Iraqis (and Iranians) have done the same...?

And which countries have you invaded (and your government are thinking about invading)...?

Do you think as a country you have made the right war decisions...,


From the WiKi:

"The attacks resulted in 2,977 victim fatalities, over 25,000 injuries, and caused at least $10 billion in infrastructure and property damage.Additional people have died of 9/11-related cancer and respiratory diseases in the months and years following the attacks. "

So if anything...we SHOULD have invaded Saudi Arabia.....
Carpe Pices
 
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casinterest
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills three at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:36 am

As an update
21 Saudi Students have been sent back to Saudi Arabia due to Jihadist sentiments on their social media posts and other background items.

https://apnews.com/5178de9a90acadff84c0db7915da9133
"The trainees who were removed had jihadist or anti-American sentiments on social media pages or had “contact with child pornography,” including in internet chat rooms, officials said. None is accused of having had advance knowledge of the shooting or helped the 21-year-old gunman carry it out.

Twelve of the trainees who were removed were assigned to the base in Pensacola and nine others were assigned to Air Force bases in the U.S., including in Mississippi, Texas and Oklahoma, a senior Justice Department official said. The trainees were all removed from the U.S. on a Saudi government aircraft on Monday, the official said.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills three at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:40 am

casinterest wrote:
As an update
21 Saudi Students have been sent back to Saudi Arabia due to Jihadist sentiments on their social media posts and other background items.

https://apnews.com/5178de9a90acadff84c0db7915da9133
"The trainees who were removed had jihadist or anti-American sentiments on social media pages or had “contact with child pornography,” including in internet chat rooms, officials said. None is accused of having had advance knowledge of the shooting or helped the 21-year-old gunman carry it out.

Twelve of the trainees who were removed were assigned to the base in Pensacola and nine others were assigned to Air Force bases in the U.S., including in Mississippi, Texas and Oklahoma, a senior Justice Department official said. The trainees were all removed from the U.S. on a Saudi government aircraft on Monday, the official said.


So again, a dear colleague of mine has waited 18 months for his Australian wife’s green card, yet these poorly-vetted Saudi trainees got visas despite extremist sympathies and child porn habits. The system is punishing the wrong people.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Jouhou
Posts: 2188
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills three at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:40 am

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
As an update
21 Saudi Students have been sent back to Saudi Arabia due to Jihadist sentiments on their social media posts and other background items.

https://apnews.com/5178de9a90acadff84c0db7915da9133
"The trainees who were removed had jihadist or anti-American sentiments on social media pages or had “contact with child pornography,” including in internet chat rooms, officials said. None is accused of having had advance knowledge of the shooting or helped the 21-year-old gunman carry it out.

Twelve of the trainees who were removed were assigned to the base in Pensacola and nine others were assigned to Air Force bases in the U.S., including in Mississippi, Texas and Oklahoma, a senior Justice Department official said. The trainees were all removed from the U.S. on a Saudi government aircraft on Monday, the official said.


So again, a dear colleague of mine has waited 18 months for his Australian wife’s green card, yet these poorly-vetted Saudi trainees got visas despite extremist sympathies and child porn habits. The system is punishing the wrong people.


Yeah, that's what bi-partisan immigration reform was going to try fixing. Then Trump happened and nothing bi-partisan happens on a large scale anymore and the system has been broken worse than it was in the first place. Anyone remember that? Republicans wanted to pass bills and Trump said "no".

I'd also like to add I'm so sick of Saudis constantly getting a free pass on an anti-american hatred that has cultural roots, it's not just one bad apple. It's hip for them to hate us but we let them right in while we bomb other countries because we need to protect ourselves from US hating Islamic extremists, clearly.
Last edited by Jouhou on Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Saudi aviation student kills four at U.S. Naval Base

Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:49 am

N583JB wrote:
BartSimpson wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
It won’t be in the media for more than a day, because it doesn’t fit the anti-gun agenda.


Let me check - a location full of weapons and still a killer could murder 3 people and injure several others. If that doesn't show that more weapons are NOT the solution I don't know.


The only people routinely armed on military bases are police officers.


You know, there was another Navy shooting that happened just before this one in pearl harbor. The shooter was the topside watch.

... point still stands that only certain people carry weapons while filling particular roles, such as being guards.

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