MaverickM11
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“ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:35 pm

“ The Wall Street Journal reported that the tech giant has agreed to take new office space in Manhattan, a reversal from February when it announced it would not open a second headquarters in New York City.

Amazon said it had signed a new lease for a 335,000 square-foot space on Manhattan's West Side, where it will take on more than 1,500 employees; yet in a silver lining for progressives, the move will not be accompanied by any special tax credits or other financial incentives”

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4734 ... nyc-anyway
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:34 pm

Is it actually Amazon's HQ2.
 
Cadet985
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:45 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Is it actually Amazon's HQ2.


I don’t think so. HQ2 I believe is going to be in the DC suburbs and will employ a lot more people. If this was going to HQ2, you’d hear AOC screaming about it.

Marc
 
BN747
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:26 pm

Cadet985 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Is it actually Amazon's HQ2.


I don’t think so. HQ2 I believe is going to be in the DC suburbs and will employ a lot more people. If this was going to HQ2, you’d hear AOC screaming about it.

Marc


Regardless, she was absolutely correct to deny $3 Billion in tax credits and they are back 'in' out of their own pockets and not taxpayers.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:15 pm

It has been pretty obvious that Amazon was going to have a major presence in NYC, just not its own campus. Remember in Seattle that not only was south Lake Union somewhat of a desert, but Paul Allen had also assembled a large set of sites ready for development. My next note is snarky, so you needn't read it: Seattle is pro-business and was ready to promote all of that development. Further note, not snarky - it is difficult to add 50,000 workers (not counting all the other tens of thousands of new techie jobs) in just several years.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:48 am

BN747 wrote:
Regardless, she was absolutely correct to deny $3 Billion in tax credits and they are back 'in' out of their own pockets and not taxpayers.

Interesting to note that HQ2 was not gonna set up shop in her district so this could be called interference. Yes, it's NYC. Yes, her constituents could be affected by it, but as it was a city and state incentive, it was state officials who should have voiced opposition.

And now, Amazon is still setting up shop (though a smaller one) and will likely still impact the immediate and surrounding neighborhoods.

I still think Amazon should have selected other places rather than NYC/NoVa...you know, places that have room to grow and could benefit far greater than NYC and NoVa would.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:55 am

With 23,500 fewer jobs than you would have had. Congratulations. :slow clap:
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:24 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Regardless, she was absolutely correct to deny $3 Billion in tax credits and they are back 'in' out of their own pockets and not taxpayers.

Interesting to note that HQ2 was not gonna set up shop in her district so this could be called interference. Yes, it's NYC. Yes, her constituents could be affected by it, but as it was a city and state incentive, it was state officials who should have voiced opposition.

And now, Amazon is still setting up shop (though a smaller one) and will likely still impact the immediate and surrounding neighborhoods.

I still think Amazon should have selected other places rather than NYC/NoVa...you know, places that have room to grow and could benefit far greater than NYC and NoVa would.

Detroit and Chicago would have been great places to build their HQ2.
 
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stl07
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:28 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
With 23,500 fewer jobs than you would have had. Congratulations. :slow clap:


And 3 billion dollars of taxpayer money saved. LOL. Jobs will always be plentiful in NYC.
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stl07
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:31 am

Not an AOC fan, but this was the right thing to do. She got so much hate from self-described "economist" and self-described "fiscal conservatives" and the like who really aren't what they claim to be at all. What "fiscal conservative" who roasted AOC can suddenly save 3 billion dollars that can be used to cut taxes or fix the crumbling NYC infrastructure while still getting the company to come. I'm waiting...
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
NIKV69
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:38 am

It's ok NYC is already California. Too expensive to live and it will just get worse so AOC only really just denied a bunch of people from getting decent jobs but she really showed that corporation who is boss!! :sarcastic:
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:11 pm

NYC does not have the space for a 50K techie campus. Infrastructure and housing are not there. The subway system, arguably one of the best in the world, is stretched beyond its design capacity. It can and will grow by adding 1500 workers at a time. NYC and California are keystone areas for the US economy, and increasingly Texas is joining them. Those sick individuals who insist on demeaning American leadership in the world are pawns of Beijing and Moscow.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:39 pm

stl07 wrote:
Not an AOC fan, but this was the right thing to do. She got so much hate from self-described "economist" and self-described "fiscal conservatives" and the like who really aren't what they claim to be at all. What "fiscal conservative" who roasted AOC can suddenly save 3 billion dollars that can be used to cut taxes or fix the crumbling NYC infrastructure while still getting the company to come. I'm waiting...

You have to truly wonder if $3B is pennies compared to what that HQ could have brought over. Let's think best case scenario where the people hired are all out of state: imagine a base of 25k new taxpayers to the NY coffers on both income tax and sales tax. Those $3B could have been recovered in no time. But it's better to rail against a company to brandish your anti-capitalist credentials.

AOC hits the nail on the head on some items, but I find she's far often shortsighted (as are many progressives).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Redd
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:56 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
AOC only really just denied a bunch of people from getting decent jobs but she really showed that corporation who is boss!! :sarcastic:



Decent jobs? At Amazon? :rotfl: Have you read a single article about the working conditions there?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:23 pm

Redd wrote:
Have you read a single article about the working conditions there?

Warehouses and fulfillment centers may have harsh conditions but IIRC this would have been a tech campus whose work conditions are different.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:27 pm

Amazon jobs are decent ones. Probably not great ones for most people. A grandkid spent a summer working in a delivery center and reported things were OK. Friends with connections to high paid Amazon report general satisfaction, but prefer working for other companies.
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dmg626
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:15 pm

stl07 wrote:
Not an AOC fan, but this was the right thing to do. She got so much hate from self-described "economist" and self-described "fiscal conservatives" and the like who really aren't what they claim to be at all. What "fiscal conservative" who roasted AOC can suddenly save 3 billion dollars that can be used to cut taxes or fix the crumbling NYC infrastructure while still getting the company to come. I'm waiting...



They weren’t giving amazon 3 billion dollars out of the savings bank/taxpayer pocket, the money was tax breaks and incentives that were reduced for some period of time.

The state did pay 750 million dollars for a plant to produce solar panels, solar city, then Panasonic now a Tesla owned company in Buffalo NY. That was money directly spent by the state to build and equip a business that promised a whopping 1,500 jobs , but is currently only at half of that target number.

The state is already projecting a 6 billion dollar shortfall in next years budget, with Albany politicians claiming no cuts, increase taxes on businesses and the wealthy, that will bring more business to the state, I mean drive businesses from NY
 
Redd
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:21 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Redd wrote:
Have you read a single article about the working conditions there?

Warehouses and fulfillment centers may have harsh conditions but IIRC this would have been a tech campus whose work conditions are different.


Absolutely, but I was responding specifically to the 25k or so NIKV69 said would have been created if not for AOC.
 
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stl07
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:23 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Not an AOC fan, but this was the right thing to do. She got so much hate from self-described "economist" and self-described "fiscal conservatives" and the like who really aren't what they claim to be at all. What "fiscal conservative" who roasted AOC can suddenly save 3 billion dollars that can be used to cut taxes or fix the crumbling NYC infrastructure while still getting the company to come. I'm waiting...

You have to truly wonder if $3B is pennies compared to what that HQ could have brought over. Let's think best case scenario where the people hired are all out of state: imagine a base of 25k new taxpayers to the NY coffers on both income tax and sales tax. Those $3B could have been recovered in no time. But it's better to rail against a company to brandish your anti-capitalist credentials.

AOC hits the nail on the head on some items, but I find she's far often shortsighted (as are many progressives).

But you could also argue that a massive tax break is shortsighted as Amazon may never bring in the promised amount of jobs, and you'll end up with a situation like MKE where you gave massive incentives with no jobs to show for it aka lighting tax money on fire. NYC got the jobs and paid nothing for them.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:43 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
NYC does not have the space for a 50K techie campus. Infrastructure and housing are not there. The subway system, arguably one of the best in the world, is stretched beyond its design capacity. It can and will grow by adding 1500 workers at a time. NYC and California are keystone areas for the US economy, and increasingly Texas is joining them. Those sick individuals who insist on demeaning American leadership in the world are pawns of Beijing and Moscow.


Actually, I'd argue that Hong Kong has the best subway system in the world; it's so much easier to use than American ones.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:18 am

stl07 wrote:
But you could also argue that a massive tax break is shortsighted as Amazon may never bring in the promised amount of jobs, and you'll end up with a situation like MKE where you gave massive incentives with no jobs to show for it aka lighting tax money on fire. NYC got the jobs and paid nothing for them.


And that is the thing that cannot be stressed enough. Obviously, there are some morons who will always hate women like AOC on the face of their existence. But the takeaway is that this is a success in the long run. While NYC clearly did not need this per se, it comes for free, as you say. And as importantly, it will become a good data point to encourage Cities to stop offering incentives for companies to add worthless weight to the tax-base funded system.

This is very clearly a good thing.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:32 pm

stl07 wrote:
But you could also argue that a massive tax break is shortsighted as Amazon may never bring in the promised amount of jobs, and you'll end up with a situation like MKE where you gave massive incentives with no jobs to show for it aka lighting tax money on fire. NYC got the jobs and paid nothing for them.

It's a risk you take. Amazon could go under tomorrow and your investment will still be a wash. And unlike the folks running WI, I could see the folks at Albany coming to NYC's aid by eliminating all tax benefits and credits if a company does not follow through with its pledge.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
NIKV69
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:39 pm

Redd wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
AOC only really just denied a bunch of people from getting decent jobs but she really showed that corporation who is boss!! :sarcastic:



Decent jobs? At Amazon? :rotfl: Have you read a single article about the working conditions there?


You want to make a living sometimes every job isn't a picnic. My job can be stressful and long hours but I pull up the bootstraps on my big boy boots and kill it. When I see my bank account it makes it all worth it. Life isn't all about making youtube videos of what you do during your mundane day and hoping fellow underachievers watch it so you get a paycheck. Sometimes you have to bust your butt.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
flash330
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:08 pm

NIKV69 wrote:


You want to make a living sometimes every job isn't a picnic. My job can be stressful and long hours but I pull up the bootstraps on my big boy boots and kill it. When I see my bank account it makes it all worth it. Life isn't all about making youtube videos of what you do during your mundane day and hoping fellow underachievers watch it so you get a paycheck. Sometimes you have to bust your butt.


The difference with amazon staff is they feel they are working long hours in a stressful environment too but unlike you, not getting the returns when they see their bank account
 
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trpmb6
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:12 am

flash330 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:


You want to make a living sometimes every job isn't a picnic. My job can be stressful and long hours but I pull up the bootstraps on my big boy boots and kill it. When I see my bank account it makes it all worth it. Life isn't all about making youtube videos of what you do during your mundane day and hoping fellow underachievers watch it so you get a paycheck. Sometimes you have to bust your butt.


The difference with amazon staff is they feel they are working long hours in a stressful environment too but unlike you, not getting the returns when they see their bank account


This wasn't a fulfillment center. These are high paying tech jobs. 6 figure salaries.
 
Redd
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:12 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Redd wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
AOC only really just denied a bunch of people from getting decent jobs but she really showed that corporation who is boss!! :sarcastic:



Decent jobs? At Amazon? :rotfl: Have you read a single article about the working conditions there?


You want to make a living sometimes every job isn't a picnic. My job can be stressful and long hours but I pull up the bootstraps on my big boy boots and kill it. When I see my bank account it makes it all worth it. Life isn't all about making youtube videos of what you do during your mundane day and hoping fellow underachievers watch it so you get a paycheck. Sometimes you have to bust your butt.


I agree with your view on hard work. It's my personal mantra, and I have no tolerance for lazy. But I think we've progressed enough as human beings to offer a certain standard of the workplace and a living wage for compensation. Growing up I worked so many hard-ass jobs, pipe fitting, mechanic, warehouse monkey, factory worker, hot tub delivery and repair chump. And I made shit money, but that's all a part of being young/a student and learning work ethic. When you need to support yourself and a family, got no skills/ambition/education, you don't have much of a choice. But the question is do you still deserve to make a living wage and be treated with some dignity?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:37 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Redd wrote:
Have you read a single article about the working conditions there?

Warehouses and fulfillment centers may have harsh conditions but IIRC this would have been a tech campus whose work conditions are different.


So poorly paid jobs with terrible working conditions are ok for a 100,000 or more people so long as 25,000 people have it good. That's complete BS and you know it.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:16 pm

Amazon blue collar pays enough and offers decent benefits. And as well educational benefits (but they are picky in expecting that money to benefit the student, either at Amazon or at a better job somewhere else). Communities do recruit and do what they can to attract these jobs. And I understand that most workers do not have to struggle to get a full week's work, or even a little overtime. This has become a rare commodity in lower paying jobs.
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luckyone
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Re: “ Amazon is coming to NYC anyway”

Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:22 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Redd wrote:
Have you read a single article about the working conditions there?

Warehouses and fulfillment centers may have harsh conditions but IIRC this would have been a tech campus whose work conditions are different.


So poorly paid jobs with terrible working conditions are ok for a 100,000 or more people so long as 25,000 people have it good. That's complete BS and you know it.

Let's be real here. In the United States blue collar jobs have always been tenuous propositions--we've been squawking about this for over a hundred years. The one period of exception being the period between WW2 and about the 1970s when deindustrialization hit hard. US workers benefited during this period because WW2 obliterated large swaths of the world's industrial capacity, and China and India were struggling to sort it together, which increased demand, which resulted in increased benefits and wages.

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