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noviorbis77
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:11 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:
This is WONDERFUL! We need to restrict and eventually complete eradicate smoking and chewing tobacco in our country. There have been way too many deaths. My grandfather chain-smoked for over 60 years and now is battling COPD. I smoked 7 cigarettes seven years ago and I have regretted doing so ever since. My father's girlfriend smoked for 25 years and now battles rheumatoid arthritis.

Smoking must STOP in this country and this world! Now we just need to eliminate marijuana and alcohol. We must be a healthier populace and I will forever be an advocate for healthier living. People dying at the age of 65 is ludicrous. We need to have our life expectancy increased to 90 years old, as South Korea is projected to become.

Now I'm not saying that eliminating tobacco will solve all of our health woes, far from it, yet it's a start. Junk food and sugary drinks are next.


So you are not in favour of individual choice?


No, not when it causes health problems. I live in rural Missouri and I have met a TON of people who are "disabled" and receive disability checks, yet they chain smoke cigarettes and binge drink alcohol.

That must stop! I think that we could start by forbidding tobacco and alcohol to the disabled and welfare recipients. They spend our public money to destroy their bodies. I think this is heinous. If they can't afford to feed their families, they certainly can't afford to buy alcohol and tobacco.

I believe in free choice as long as it doesn't harm either yourself or others. As radical as organizations like Greenpeace are who advocate protecting the environment, the same must be done with healthy lifestyles.


The tax revenue from Tobacco is significant.

But if you want to end free choice unless it doesn’t harm yourself and others, I assume you want meat, dairy, sugar, automobiles, aviation all banned owing to the harm they do?
 
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:08 pm

Some extremely dangerous thinking is presented by some posters in this thread. A quite good explanation why oppressive totalitarian regimes were and still are so widespread around the world.
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readytotaxi
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:05 pm

The UK has a problem with young people drinking and violence, like to see that raised to 21.
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:29 pm

Yeah let's ban tobacco. Our prisons are too empty

No problem with taxation though... Tax enough to offset the health costs later in life
 
Iloveboeing
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:39 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Yeah let's ban tobacco. Our prisons are too empty

No problem with taxation though... Tax enough to offset the health costs later in life


The thing is, though, that adding extra taxes makes many smokers (who are already lower income) poorer, yet they still continue to buy cigarettes. I've heard that cigarettes are now over $10/pack in places like New York and Connecticut, yet people still buy them. We need to eliminate tobacco products. I know it's a struggle for many people, but they need to be made to stop. I believe in my state (Missouri), we have the lowest cigarette taxes in the nation, so smoking is still quite prolific here. I'm a Republican, but we don't even have a statewide public smoking ban here and I think we need one. There's one restaurant in our small town that I absolutely refuse to dine in due to the fact that they allow smoking while people are eating.

The welfare recipients need to be told, point-black: "either you quit using tobacco and drinking alcohol or your disability benefits, your food stamps and all other public assistance shall be immediately TERMINATED."
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:56 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
The welfare recipients need to be told, point-black:


No Freudian slip there. . .



DeltaMD90 wrote:
No problem with taxation though... Tax enough to offset the health costs later in life


Red herring. Health costs are already inflated to stupidly ridiculous proportions. For any matter.

Taxation, particularly a difficult to track excise tax, will be unhelpful in this matter.
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1989worstyear
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:45 pm

Why can't Americans decide on an age for adulthood? This is insane.

The Brits have it all at 16, why not put it all there? At 16 you're entering the same stage of life as someone in their 20's or 30's, and where I grew up (MA) 16 and 17 year olds were allowed to be with 20/30 year olds but not with anyone a year or two younger.

If a 16/17 year old can't even be FRIENDS with a 15 year old sophomore in this stupid society then clearly they should be considered equal to someone 30+.
Last edited by 1989worstyear on Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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stl07
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:47 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Yeah let's ban tobacco. Our prisons are too empty

No problem with taxation though... Tax enough to offset the health costs later in life


The thing is, though, that adding extra taxes makes many smokers (who are already lower income) poorer, yet they still continue to buy cigarettes. I've heard that cigarettes are now over $10/pack in places like New York and Connecticut, yet people still buy them. We need to eliminate tobacco products. I know it's a struggle for many people, but they need to be made to stop. I believe in my state (Missouri), we have the lowest cigarette taxes in the nation, so smoking is still quite prolific here. I'm a Republican, but we don't even have a statewide public smoking ban here and I think we need one. There's one restaurant in our small town that I absolutely refuse to dine in due to the fact that they allow smoking while people are eating.

The welfare recipients need to be told, point-black: "either you quit using tobacco and drinking alcohol or your disability benefits, your food stamps and all other public assistance shall be immediately TERMINATED."

Wow! Did not know that there was no statewide ban. I never really gave it a thought since it is banned in St. Louis and surrounding counties.
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1989worstyear
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:56 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Never understood this about America, driving at 16: ok, have a drink at 18: oh no, a big nono, enlist and kill at 17, no problem, smoke weet, lock up for 50 years.

Smoking is bad for you, sure, but so are a lot of other things. Take effective measures against it. Don't think this will help one bit.


Trust me - it's an awkward age being made even more awkward by the laws and how inconsistently society views you.
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:49 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
We need to eliminate tobacco products. I know it's a struggle for many people, but they need to be made to stop.

We should make people stop doing heroin while we're at it

Iloveboeing wrote:
The welfare recipients need to be told, point-black: "either you quit using tobacco and drinking alcohol or your disability benefits, your food stamps and all other public assistance shall be immediately TERMINATED."

Done smartly, I'm not against restricting what people receiving assistance do.


DarkSnowyNight wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
No problem with taxation though... Tax enough to offset the health costs later in life


Red herring. Health costs are already inflated to stupidly ridiculous proportions. For any matter.

Red herring? I'd say your response is actually the red herring because it's a problem, no doubt, but don't you think your average smoker is gonna have more health problems (and in turn, cost more) than your average non-smoker?

Who says we shouldn't tackle the ridiculously inflated healthcare costs as well? I don't think the two are mutually exclusive
 
slider
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:50 pm

Another encroachment and violation of individual liberty. Disgusting.

So a 20 year old can die in military service but still can't drink or have a cigarette. Beam me up.
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:30 pm

slider wrote:
Another encroachment and violation of individual liberty. Disgusting.

So a 20 year old can die in military service but still can't drink or have a cigarette. Beam me up.


It is madness.

I’ve not been to the gym for a fortnight. Clearly not good for my health. Some on here would have me arrested for that.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:38 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:


DarkSnowyNight wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
No problem with taxation though... Tax enough to offset the health costs later in life


Red herring. Health costs are already inflated to stupidly ridiculous proportions. For any matter.

Red herring? I'd say your response is actually the red herring because it's a problem, no doubt, but don't you think your average smoker is gonna have more health problems (and in turn, cost more) than your average non-smoker?



Hmmm...

No. I was right the first time. But thanks anyway.

While smokers do have a higher likelihood of incidence WRT medical failures, those all point -again, statistically- to shorter overall lifespans.

And between the generally declining number of smokers, and the significantly higher medical expenses the elderly (an increasing number) incur, it is difficult for an intellectually honest assessment to conclude the issue requires more funding via excise taxes.

If the tax exists because people like to kick smokers around, this is one thing. But if we are pretending there is some need of this to defray costs, we need to start taxing things that cause people to live longer, as that is where a higher cost is found.


DeltaMD90 wrote:
Who says we shouldn't tackle the ridiculously inflated healthcare costs as well? I don't think the two are mutually exclusive


Not me, since I did not say that. However dealing with that issue only adds to my point.

Lower overall medical costs = Less need of an excise tax.
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Iloveboeing
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:35 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:


DarkSnowyNight wrote:


Red herring. Health costs are already inflated to stupidly ridiculous proportions. For any matter.

Red herring? I'd say your response is actually the red herring because it's a problem, no doubt, but don't you think your average smoker is gonna have more health problems (and in turn, cost more) than your average non-smoker?



Hmmm...

No. I was right the first time. But thanks anyway.

While smokers do have a higher likelihood of incidence WRT medical failures, those all point -again, statistically- to shorter overall lifespans.

And between the generally declining number of smokers, and the significantly higher medical expenses the elderly (an increasing number) incur, it is difficult for an intellectually honest assessment to conclude the issue requires more funding via excise taxes.

If the tax exists because people like to kick smokers around, this is one thing. But if we are pretending there is some need of this to defray costs, we need to start taxing things that cause people to live longer, as that is where a higher cost is found.


DeltaMD90 wrote:
Who says we shouldn't tackle the ridiculously inflated healthcare costs as well? I don't think the two are mutually exclusive


Not me, since I did not say that. However dealing with that issue only adds to my point.

Lower overall medical costs = Less need of an excise tax.


I agree with you. The way I see it, if the majority of the population can be persuaded to live healthy lifestyles, it will dramatically lower healthcare costs across the board. As many are calling for combating climate change, there must be a similar battle against unhealthy living (sugary beverages, tobacco, junk food, sedentary lifestyles, etc).
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:08 pm

The wretched undemocratic EU’s ban on menthol cigarettes comes into play this May.

As a smoker of menthols, reckon I am going to have to stock up with several thousand before May.

Despite the UK leaving, I fear the UK governments general anti smoking attitudes, they wont overturn the ban.

It really is pathetic legislation.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:49 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
The wretched undemocratic EU’s ban on menthol cigarettes comes into play this May.

As a smoker of menthols, reckon I am going to have to stock up with several thousand before May.

Despite the UK leaving, I fear the UK governments general anti smoking attitudes, they wont overturn the ban.

It really is pathetic legislation.


At least the UK realizes all 16 year olds have their prefrontal cortexes developed.
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mrgrtt123
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:06 am

Oh no, it's like telling me that the legal age is now 21.
Should I feel sorry for the young people?
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:17 am

mrgrtt123 wrote:
Oh no, it's like telling me that the legal age is now 21.
Should I feel sorry for the young people?


You mean the 17-20 year-old ADULTS who enlisted to die for their country? Yes you should.
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DL717
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:02 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
This is WONDERFUL! We need to restrict and eventually complete eradicate smoking and chewing tobacco in our country. There have been way too many deaths. My grandfather chain-smoked for over 60 years and now is battling COPD. I smoked 7 cigarettes seven years ago and I have regretted doing so ever since. My father's girlfriend smoked for 25 years and now battles rheumatoid arthritis.

Smoking must STOP in this country and this world! Now we just need to eliminate marijuana and alcohol. We must be a healthier populace and I will forever be an advocate for healthier living. People dying at the age of 65 is ludicrous. We need to have our life expectancy increased to 90 years old, as South Korea is projected to become.

Now I'm not saying that eliminating tobacco will solve all of our health woes, far from it, yet it's a start. Junk food and sugary drinks are next.


This worked really well during prohibition.
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scbriml
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:50 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
The Brits have it all at 16, why not put it all there?


Simply not correct. :shakehead:

16 - age of consent UK wide + Scots can vote in local and Scottish Parliament elections

17 - legal driving age

18 - legal voting and drinking age
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Jouhou
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:55 pm

Why haven't any small government folks asked yet why the federal government can even mandate this? I haven't seen the words of the bill passed, but if it's not a cross action referendum using a loop hole (IE: threatening highway funds) it's not constitutional. If the states haven't been forced to individually modify their laws the constitutionality of this is questionable. That was never the kind of thing that would fall into the federal government's jurisdiction. States can choose to legalize pot because it never was the federal government's decision to make in the first place. It's a state issue.

slider wrote:
Another encroachment and violation of individual liberty. Disgusting.

So a 20 year old can die in military service but still can't drink or have a cigarette. Beam me up.
I thought military was exempt.
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TSS
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:21 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Why haven't any small government folks asked yet why the federal government can even mandate this? I haven't seen the words of the bill passed, but if it's not a cross action referendum using a loop hole (IE: threatening highway funds) it's not constitutional. If the states haven't been forced to individually modify their laws the constitutionality of this is questionable. That was never the kind of thing that would fall into the federal government's jurisdiction. States can choose to legalize pot because it never was the federal government's decision to make in the first place. It's a state issue.

slider wrote:
Another encroachment and violation of individual liberty. Disgusting.

So a 20 year old can die in military service but still can't drink or have a cigarette. Beam me up.


I thought military was exempt.


Could it be on-base = exempt but off-base = not exempt? Off-base alcohol purchasers still have to be 21 even with active military ID, so I'd assume tobacco would be the same.
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ArchGuy1
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:44 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Why haven't any small government folks asked yet why the federal government can even mandate this? I haven't seen the words of the bill passed, but if it's not a cross action referendum using a loop hole (IE: threatening highway funds) it's not constitutional. If the states haven't been forced to individually modify their laws the constitutionality of this is questionable. That was never the kind of thing that would fall into the federal government's jurisdiction. States can choose to legalize pot because it never was the federal government's decision to make in the first place. It's a state issue.

slider wrote:
Another encroachment and violation of individual liberty. Disgusting.

So a 20 year old can die in military service but still can't drink or have a cigarette. Beam me up.
I thought military was exempt.

The law for the previous federal smoking age was a grant in aid that would withhold FEMA grants for disaster relief in states with a smoking age of less than 18. I assume that the new law is the same.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:27 am

TSS wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Why haven't any small government folks asked yet why the federal government can even mandate this? I haven't seen the words of the bill passed, but if it's not a cross action referendum using a loop hole (IE: threatening highway funds) it's not constitutional. If the states haven't been forced to individually modify their laws the constitutionality of this is questionable. That was never the kind of thing that would fall into the federal government's jurisdiction. States can choose to legalize pot because it never was the federal government's decision to make in the first place. It's a state issue.

slider wrote:
Another encroachment and violation of individual liberty. Disgusting.

So a 20 year old can die in military service but still can't drink or have a cigarette. Beam me up.


I thought military was exempt.


Could it be on-base = exempt but off-base = not exempt? Off-base alcohol purchasers still have to be 21 even with active military ID, so I'd assume tobacco would be the same.


I had seen some discussion online from people working in retail about checking military ID after the law change so I assumed it applied to off base purchases as well.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Why haven't any small government folks asked yet why the federal government can even mandate this? I haven't seen the words of the bill passed, but if it's not a cross action referendum using a loop hole (IE: threatening highway funds) it's not constitutional. If the states haven't been forced to individually modify their laws the constitutionality of this is questionable. That was never the kind of thing that would fall into the federal government's jurisdiction. States can choose to legalize pot because it never was the federal government's decision to make in the first place. It's a state issue.

slider wrote:
Another encroachment and violation of individual liberty. Disgusting.

So a 20 year old can die in military service but still can't drink or have a cigarette. Beam me up.
I thought military was exempt.

The law for the previous federal smoking age was a grant in aid that would withhold FEMA grants for disaster relief in states with a smoking age of less than 18. I assume that the new law is the same.


I kind of assumed there would be a delay as state legislatures would have to change laws individually, which is why this struck me as strange.
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Reddevil556
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:40 am

N757ST wrote:
Yeah, can’t say I agree. I’ve smoked maybe 3 cigarettes in my entire life, but if you can die as a soldier in service to this nation, you should damn well be able to have a drink or a smoke. Just my opinion.


As a soldier, I think the minimum age to join should be 21. Then I wouldn’t have to deal with my soldiers getting busted for drinking underage haha.
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1989worstyear
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:29 am

scbriml wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
The Brits have it all at 16, why not put it all there?


Simply not correct. :shakehead:

16 - age of consent UK wide + Scots can vote in local and Scottish Parliament elections

17 - legal driving age

18 - legal voting and drinking age


At least the awkward gray area only lasts 2 years instead of 5.

I still don't see what the issue is. I grew up in the state of Massachusetts, and in that state it's deemed socially acceptable for a guy in his 50's to fool around with 16/17 year olds, and I heard it's accepted in the UK as well (17 year old Sam Fox getting gang-banged in porn mags in '83 comes to mind).

If a 17 year old grown woman can be with someone old enough to be her father - than what's wrong with smoking? This cherry-picking nonsense needs to stop.
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scbriml
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:13 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
I still don't see what the issue is. I grew up in the state of Massachusetts, and in that state it's deemed socially acceptable for a guy in his 50's to fool around with 16/17 year olds, and I heard it's accepted in the UK as well (17 year old Sam Fox getting gang-banged in porn mags in '83 comes to mind).


You need to differentiate between something that's technically legal vs something that's "socially acceptable". I suspect you won't find many fathers of 16 or 17yo daughters who find it "socially acceptable" for a man in his 50s to be "fooling around" with them.

I'm pretty sure you're misremembering Sam Fox in 1983. But feel free to provide some supporting evidence.
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speedbird52
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:14 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Over 70 years old have no relevant understanding of today and lack the knowledge to make rational decisions.

Ageism at its worst. It's so easy to turn the tables... does someone who knows nothing but Instagram and xbox, most likely hasn't ever read a proper book, understand complexities of today's world?

A lot of assumptions here. I never owned an XBOX, recently uninstalled Instagram, have read many books, and I am 18. Something tells me your poor perception of youth is due to your lack of interaction with young people. This attitude is likely why your grandchildren and great nephews avoid conversation with you. How can someone who gets all of their information from FOX News and Facebook understand complexities of today's world?
 
speedbird52
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:15 pm

scbriml wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
I still don't see what the issue is. I grew up in the state of Massachusetts, and in that state it's deemed socially acceptable for a guy in his 50's to fool around with 16/17 year olds, and I heard it's accepted in the UK as well (17 year old Sam Fox getting gang-banged in porn mags in '83 comes to mind).


You need to differentiate between something that's technically legal vs something that's "socially acceptable". I suspect you won't find many fathers of 16 or 17yo daughters who find it "socially acceptable" for a man in his 50s to be "fooling around" with them.

I'm pretty sure you're misremembering Sam Fox in 1983. But feel free to provide some supporting evidence.

Age of consent =/= the age it is legal to be in pornography. If she was, then said porn mags qualify as child porn
 
QXatFAT
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:53 pm

The fact that the government continues to think they get to set the benchmark in how "free" people should live their lives, is remarkable. This isn't a party issue, but a pure government issue at all levels (thinking of the soda law as well in NY). Laws should not be created like this for individuals, but for protection of the masses (I might not be wording this right, so I will give an example) Example: smoking in restaurants can be banned to protect those who do not want 2nd hand smoke in a confined space. Do not, however, tell an 18 year old he/she is not allowed to do to his own body, as he/she wills.

With all that being said, if anyone has a stash of straws or plastic bags they would like to send my way, please PM me :)
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TSS
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:14 pm

scbriml wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
I still don't see what the issue is. I grew up in the state of Massachusetts, and in that state it's deemed socially acceptable for a guy in his 50's to fool around with 16/17 year olds, and I heard it's accepted in the UK as well (17 year old Sam Fox getting gang-banged in porn mags in '83 comes to mind).


You need to differentiate between something that's technically legal vs something that's "socially acceptable". I suspect you won't find many fathers of 16 or 17yo daughters who find it "socially acceptable" for a man in his 50s to be "fooling around" with them.

I'm pretty sure you're misremembering Sam Fox in 1983. But feel free to provide some supporting evidence.


Maybe he's confusing Samantha Fox with Traci Lords?- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traci_Lords

QXatFAT wrote:
The fact that the government continues to think they get to set the benchmark in how "free" people should live their lives, is remarkable. This isn't a party issue, but a pure government issue at all levels (thinking of the soda law as well in NY). Laws should not be created like this for individuals, but for protection of the masses (I might not be wording this right, so I will give an example) Example: smoking in restaurants can be banned to protect those who do not want 2nd hand smoke in a confined space. Do not, however, tell an 18 year old he/she is not allowed to do to his own body, as he/she wills.


I'd have said with regard to businesses such as bars and restaurants that it should be up to the owners of said businesses whether or not smoking is allowed on the premises. I am, however, all for requiring a sign on the entrances of those businesses stating either "Smoking Permitted Throughout", "Smoking Allowed In Designated Area(s) Only", or "No Smoking".

The other thing I have a problem with is the skeezy, blackmail-ish way the federal government forces states to comply with these rules: States don't have to comply with them, but they'll lose their FEMA support if they don't. That's a little too close to a mobster saying "Nice shop ya got here. It'd be a shame if somethin' happened to it..." for my liking.
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QXatFAT
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:54 pm

TSS wrote:
The other thing I have a problem with is the skeezy, blackmail-ish way the federal government forces states to comply with these rules: States don't have to comply with them, but they'll lose their FEMA support if they don't. That's a little too close to a mobster saying "Nice shop ya got here. It'd be a shame if somethin' happened to it..." for my liking.


I see your point, but that is also a fine line, right? If something is a Federal Law, then the need to protect the citizens of the United States regardless of what state they are a resident of. I am not disagreeing with you, but I find this to be a very gray area.

I am a full supporter of state rights with the Federal Government providing high level protections to its citizens. This is why when I have friends tell me "The government isn't doing anything! What a waste!" I respond to them by saying them not doing anything is a good thing! The last thing we need is them to "do something" for the sake of just doing something, thats were meaningless laws get crated...like the one we are mentioning on this thread. Save the energy for protecting us against enemies foreign and domestic and figuring out how to take the right amount of tax without having to take more or give refunds.
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ItnStln
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:58 am

TSS wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Why haven't any small government folks asked yet why the federal government can even mandate this? I haven't seen the words of the bill passed, but if it's not a cross action referendum using a loop hole (IE: threatening highway funds) it's not constitutional. If the states haven't been forced to individually modify their laws the constitutionality of this is questionable. That was never the kind of thing that would fall into the federal government's jurisdiction. States can choose to legalize pot because it never was the federal government's decision to make in the first place. It's a state issue.

slider wrote:
Another encroachment and violation of individual liberty. Disgusting.

So a 20 year old can die in military service but still can't drink or have a cigarette. Beam me up.


I thought military was exempt.


Could it be on-base = exempt but off-base = not exempt? Off-base alcohol purchasers still have to be 21 even with active military ID, so I'd assume tobacco would be the same.

You have to be 21 to purchase alcohol on base.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:38 pm

QXatFAT wrote:
The fact that the government continues to think they get to set the benchmark in how "free" people should live their lives, is remarkable. This isn't a party issue, but a pure government issue at all levels (thinking of the soda law as well in NY). Laws should not be created like this for individuals, but for protection of the masses (I might not be wording this right, so I will give an example) Example: smoking in restaurants can be banned to protect those who do not want 2nd hand smoke in a confined space. Do not, however, tell an 18 year old he/she is not allowed to do to his own body, as he/she wills.

With all that being said, if anyone has a stash of straws or plastic bags they would like to send my way, please PM me :)



You seem to be the type I would generally disagree with politically, however I really do believe A.) This is not an issue for the federal government to be calling the shots on and B.) limiting individual choice for the individual's own health is only justifiable if the tax payers are on the hook for the health of others. Our system is private, they're not.

It's not OK. It seems to be legislation that was likely pushed by lobbyists for insurance companies.
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QXatFAT
Posts: 2336
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

Re: Smoking Age Raised to 21 in the United States

Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:06 am

Jouhou wrote:
You seem to be the type I would generally disagree with politically, however I really do believe A.) This is not an issue for the federal government to be calling the shots on and B.) limiting individual choice for the individual's own health is only justifiable if the tax payers are on the hook for the health of others. Our system is private, they're not.

It's not OK. It seems to be legislation that was likely pushed by lobbyists for insurance companies.

Trust me, Jouhou...it is okay for us to disagree on multiple things. That's what makes fore great dialog! It's okay to agree with a few things and not feel like a sell out either :) haha!

That leads down another path of healthcare (which the discussion brings me a lot of anxiety)...but if we live in a society where we are forced to cover others health care, I can see your point. I would much rather not limit their rights to smoke though by making near impossible and simply having their history making it so when it comes time for that lung transplant, sorry you have to pay full price or start collecting cans to save up. Still shows choices have consequences when it comes to your lifestyle.
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