Bushfires have been burning in Australia for the past two months and the upcoming heat wave is set to intensify them. The bushfires have engulfed whole towns and high winds combined with rising temperatures have made them worse. Parts of South Australia have a severe fire danger warning and residents in those areas are advised to evacuate as soon as possible. In Saturday and Sunday, temperatures in Adeladie, South Australia could reach 100 degrees Fahrenheit, with 104 degree temperatures expected in Monday. Heat will build up over Eastern Australia during the weekend and reach Sydney on Monday. Melbourne could see temperatures reach 105 degrees Fahrenheit on Monday. By December 21, nine people had died from the bushfires in Australia with one person missing and 800 homes had been destroyed. More than half of the 72 bushfires in Australia have been contained, but the heat wave brings a renewed threat for fire. 1,500 firefighters have been deployed and the priority was to contain the fires northwest and southwest of Sydney, where it is more threatening to residents. The fires have also threatened wild koalas living in the wild. It is a very difficult situation for authorities and firefighters who are doing a great job in getting the fires under control and hopefully, the heat wave will end soon enough.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/27/australi ... index.html

The increase in bushfires/forest fires isn't just in Australia, but some areas of the USA, in particular California, as well as places like Brazil. Part of this is due to Global Climate Change, but also excesses of control to prevent fires in the past, more people living in and around forested areas and poor choices in construction.

The berejiklian bushfires are mostly a product of the NSW Government's epic mismanagement. They've laid off a lot of Forestry/park officers whose job was preventative actions like burnoffs.

zkojq wrote:

The berejiklian bushfires are mostly a product of the NSW Government's epic mismanagement. They've laid off a lot of Forestry/park officers whose job was preventative actions like burnoffs.

That’s what the government was voted in to do. Cut bureaucracy, get efficiency improvements, etc. That they’ve done. Efficiency improvements means job cuts.

However, it must be said the relevant departments have been doing burn offs, there have been numerous times when Sydney has been blanketed in smoke from the burn offs.

Any blame does rest with the government. The Departments responsible for burn offs and environment do only what the government tells them to do.

What can also be said is that the weather has been really dry and hot, windy too. I cannot remember it being like this for that long. Today is forecasted to be 37C, 38 tomorrow and Tuesday more than 40C.

Programmed burn will occasionally get out of control and destroy homes. Holy Hell ensues, the political and legal pressure says never do it again.

frmrCapCadet wrote:

Programmed burn will occasionally get out of control and destroy homes. Holy Hell ensues, the political and legal pressure says never do it again.

But they have actually been doing it irrespective of that, and they keep doing them. It's not like they've just stopped totally.

Indeed they have not stopped totally. But the permitting and paperwork is formidable. And expensive.

What also needs to be mentioned is the fact that most of the country is in the grip of an unprecedented drought. The country is bone dry and it is only taking the negligent act of some dickhead flicking a cigarette butt out of a car window, to start a raging inferno. Years of government cut backs to the departments responsible for land management and hazard reduction are finally being caught up with these fires, devastating huge tracts of bush land and communities in around these areas.

Some of these fires have been burning for weeks and it is simply not practical to try and extinguish them totally with the resources that are available. What resources that are available are used to defend property, houses, farm buildings, etc, but most of the bush burnt is in areas that is simply inaccessible and the only way that they'll be put out completely is with good rainfall, something that hasn't happened for a long time and unfortunately isn't in any forecasts either. All the while, these fires creep ever closer to populated areas, where property damage will skyrocket if they are reached.

Having said that, Sydney in particular in the last few years has mainly been spared from catastrophic bush fires. Conditions have been ripe, but we have missed the really big fires, catching up now unfortunately. Big shout out to all the volunteers of the R.F.S. dangerous, crappy job, done on their own time and without payment. These people are real heroes and while they my lose a battle every now and then, they win far more than they lose and there are thousands of grateful home and property owners forever indebted to their hard work and sacrifice.

jupiter2 wrote:

What also needs to be mentioned is the fact that most of the country is in the grip of an unprecedented drought. The country is bone dry and it is only taking the negligent act of some dickhead flicking a cigarette butt out of a car window, to start a raging inferno. Years of government cut backs to the departments responsible for land management and hazard reduction are finally being caught up with these fires, devastating huge tracts of bush land and communities in around these areas.

But again, a lot of this is due to mismanagement of the river systems. Letting cotton farmers take as much water as they like has a big effect downstream.

People in the far east of Victoria have been asked to evacuate ASAP. Some coastal towns in the area have up to 30,000 tourists holidaying there currently, most of whom are people from Melbourne. The fear is that the fires are expected to impact the main highway that runs through the region, cutting off access to Melbourne.

On the western side of Victoria, the Falls music festival in Lorne (along the Great Ocean Road) was cancelled after one day because of the expected conditions tomorrow - the festival grounds are in bushland, and there would be issues with evacuating the site given the large crowd (up to 15,000 ticketholders....) if something did happen......

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 53nez.html

Oh come on people we know the reason why there are bushfires in Australia, Israel Folau has told us the reason it’s all because of the legalisation of sake sex marriage and abortion in Australia, so God is dealing vengeance on the Australian people. Repent and the fires will subside.

And here is what it looked like in Bilpin, hopefully things won't go off-topic into religious discussion:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/dra ... 53nkh.html

They were fairly well prepared and the house survived.

Very hot & windy here in Melbourne, not a good sign.

At least one fire in suburban Melbourne currently, with nearby residents being asked to evacuate.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 53ngs.html

I’ve never known anything like it. The Kings Highway, the main route of access from Canberra to the south coast has been closed since before Christmas, and may not be re-opened before February. The fire has caused fallen trees and the asphalt is now also damaged from the heat. Crews cannot safely get in there to start any remediation works. There are five other access routes I think in total, off the south coast, two of which are also closed, one which is now under threat it appears, the one through Bega, down towards the state border.

A current status of the fires in Australia is ‘the only thing that will put these out is (decent) rain.’ I said to a friend from abroad back in November, that the headline ‘Australia is on fire’ is greatly exaggerated. Now at the end December of 2019, I don’t think that is an exaggeration at all.

Today is windy and hot, perfect conditions for a blaze or new dozen to spring up. I can’t keep up with them all, and jurisdictional, or federally speaking - am having to consult multiple web sources, for the information by state. It’s kind of hard to comprehend this scenario. I do agree, without getting political, that the ongoing threat and labour-intensive fire front fight should not have got this bad. The health and economic impacts are still being counted.

Sydney is 36ºC this afternoon, the sun is out but it looks overcast, that overcast is the smoke haze. Really terrible. Tomorrow is supposed to be 42ºC last I checked.

I think we had one small amount of rain on one night, and a little drizzle the next morning and nothing more than that. I can't remember any sustained dry spell for this long. Normally we'd get afternoon heavy rain from thunderstorms, but not even that.

We need a big rethink on climate change policies, energy production, fire management, the lot. Our governments have been sticking their heads in the sand for far too long.

jupiter2 wrote:

What also needs to be mentioned is the fact that most of the country is in the grip of an unprecedented drought. The country is bone dry and it is only taking the negligent act of some dickhead flicking a cigarette butt out of a car window, to start a raging inferno.

Some of these fires have been burning for weeks and it is simply not practical to try and extinguish them totally with the resources that are available.

Big shout out to all the volunteers of the R.F.S. dangerous, crappy job, done on their own time and without payment. These people are real heroes and while they my lose a battle every now and then, they win far more than they lose and there are thousands of grateful home and property owners forever indebted to their hard work and sacrifice.

Yes, indeed. Can I also mention and acknowledge those fire fighters who have travelled from abroad, mostly from the United States and Canada, that have come to help us in these times of need. It’s great to be able to share resources and experience and learn from the events, as our firies have also when they travelled abroad to assist in the northern summer.

Scientists fear surge in supersized bushfires that create their own violent thunderstorms
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nderstorms

I find it scary, albeit interesting how these fires are creating their own weather. I may have even seen one of these on a flight, but I am not sure.

From the article: “PyroCB storms are feared by firefighters for the violent and unpredictable conditions they create on the ground. PyroCBs are able to generate their own lightning strikes, mass downdrafts of air, gusty winds and even hail blackened with soot. The plumes generated from pyroCBs can influence the atmosphere at heights of up to 15km. Embers still hot enough to start new fires can be shot out of a pyroCB at distances of 30km from the main fire.”

Meteorologists say a climate system in the Indian Ocean, known as the dipole, is the main driver behind the extreme heat in Australia, and it is not due to change anytime soon.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50602971

Anyone know how many water bombers in use?

It's about the hottest temperatures I've experienced today. I rode a bike today, my Garmin registered a maximum of 50ºC, minimum of 20ºC and average of 36ºC for the 5 hours duration. It was incredibly hot, lots of smoke around too. Noticed a lot of Rural Fire Service vehicles on the move too.

I hope for the best for those people.

cpd wrote:

It's about the hottest temperatures I've experienced today. I rode a bike today, my Garmin registered a maximum of 50ºC, minimum of 20ºC and average of 36ºC for the 5 hours duration. It was incredibly hot, lots of smoke around too. Noticed a lot of Rural Fire Service vehicles on the move too.

I hope for the best for those people.

If you're in, around Sydney, you're nuts.

The fires are only getting worse, much of the south coast of N.S.W. is ablaze, with towns basically cut off and surrounded by fires. Similar situations developing in Victoria as well and fires in South Australia. The rate these fires are going there's going to be very little bushland left along much of the coast of N.S.W. and there is very little sign of relief on then way.

As for the large water bombers being utilised in N.S.W. there is one DC-10, two 737's, two C-130's and a RJ85, they have all been operating from YSRI, Richmond R.A.A.F. base in Sydney's north west, they are working hard, mostly on the fires in N.S.W. There is also a stack of helicopters and smaller aircraft being used, both for water bombing and bird dogging.

This article discusses potential further aircraft that ‘could’ be utilised from overseas.. Source: https://www.smh.com.au/national/firefig ... 53naw.html

From the article: “He said an aircraft worth testing was the Bombardier CL-415, a twin turbo-prop purpose-built aircraft capable of dropping 6000 litres and scooping water from the lakes, rivers and the ocean. But "Australia hasn't touched them yet", Mr Mullins said. DoSomething founder Jon Dee, whose house has been under threat in the Blue Mountains, said eight Hercules aircraft specially equipped for firefighting were available in the United States. What I and 29 other former chiefs are saying is that with longer and overlapping fire seasons it is just very clear that we are going to run out of large aircraft," he said. They should be looking at these scooping aircraft because Croatia, Italy France, Portugal and Canada have all got them and they are all in mothballs in winter. There are dozens of them and they are cheaper than jets.”


The military are now assisting in Victoria, and with naval ships, to assist isolated fire affected communities along the coast. A lot has happened today, but the image of thousands of people on the beach at Mallacoota fearing for their lives as the fire stormed in is one not easy to forget.

Commercial air traffic doesn’t seem to be much affected? The visibility at CBR has been greatly reduced tonight again though, with a wind change. Had been checking the airport webcam daily while I was away as an indicator of current conditions. Now back home and not in any current danger of a fire front touchwood, my house still reeks of smoke with the wind change, and I dare not open the door for long or at all, in case the smoke alarm goes off. We’ve also had some rain, much good it will do right now. Not complaining about my lot at all, just makes me more acutely aware of what people in the coastal areas in the south east are currently dealing with, besides just seeing the images on our television screens.

jupiter2 wrote:

cpd wrote:

It's about the hottest temperatures I've experienced today. I rode a bike today, my Garmin registered a maximum of 50ºC, minimum of 20ºC and average of 36ºC for the 5 hours duration. It was incredibly hot, lots of smoke around too. Noticed a lot of Rural Fire Service vehicles on the move too.

I hope for the best for those people.

If you're in, around Sydney, you're nuts.

The fires are only getting worse, much of the south coast of N.S.W. is ablaze, with towns basically cut off and surrounded by fires. Similar situations developing in Victoria as well and fires in South Australia. The rate these fires are going there's going to be very little bushland left along much of the coast of N.S.W. and there is very little sign of relief on then way.

As for the large water bombers being utilised in N.S.W. there is one DC-10, two 737's, two C-130's and a RJ85, they have all been operating from YSRI, Richmond R.A.A.F. base in Sydney's north west, they are working hard, mostly on the fires in N.S.W. There is also a stack of helicopters and smaller aircraft being used, both for water bombing and bird dogging.

Yes, I'm in Sydney. Not in a particularly dangerous area, but some crazy guy decided to set fire to the local cycleway/reserve this evening. I'm not sure exactly what time, but it was before 6:30pm and seemingly deliberately done to coincide with the gusty winds that have started this evening.

As for the riding, it was pretty hot - but I'm fit and I know my limits. So I stopped at 145km and did the remaining 65km this evening when it had cooled off.

cpd wrote:

jupiter2 wrote:

cpd wrote:

It's about the hottest temperatures I've experienced today. I rode a bike today, my Garmin registered a maximum of 50ºC, minimum of 20ºC and average of 36ºC for the 5 hours duration. It was incredibly hot, lots of smoke around too. Noticed a lot of Rural Fire Service vehicles on the move too.

I hope for the best for those people.

If you're in, around Sydney, you're nuts.

The fires are only getting worse, much of the south coast of N.S.W. is ablaze, with towns basically cut off and surrounded by fires. Similar situations developing in Victoria as well and fires in South Australia. The rate these fires are going there's going to be very little bushland left along much of the coast of N.S.W. and there is very little sign of relief on then way.

As for the large water bombers being utilised in N.S.W. there is one DC-10, two 737's, two C-130's and a RJ85, they have all been operating from YSRI, Richmond R.A.A.F. base in Sydney's north west, they are working hard, mostly on the fires in N.S.W. There is also a stack of helicopters and smaller aircraft being used, both for water bombing and bird dogging.

Yes, I'm in Sydney. Not in a particularly dangerous area, but some crazy guy decided to set fire to the local cycleway/reserve this evening. I'm not sure exactly what time, but it was before 6:30pm and seemingly deliberately done to coincide with the gusty winds that have started this evening.

As for the riding, it was pretty hot - but I'm fit and I know my limits. So I stopped at 145km and did the remaining 65km this evening when it had cooled off.

Was that the fire near Blacktown in the evening ? There is always some dickhead out there who will do something crazy. It's not just the heat you need to be aware of at present, 5 hours of exercise in the smoke can't be doing the lungs a lot of good.

The change was significant in the evening and the winds were strong and gusty, 100kmh gusts recorded at the airport when it came through. The old southerlies used to have storms and rain with them, seems to be a thing of the past.

jupiter2 wrote:

cpd wrote:

jupiter2 wrote:

If you're in, around Sydney, you're nuts.

The fires are only getting worse, much of the south coast of N.S.W. is ablaze, with towns basically cut off and surrounded by fires. Similar situations developing in Victoria as well and fires in South Australia. The rate these fires are going there's going to be very little bushland left along much of the coast of N.S.W. and there is very little sign of relief on then way.

As for the large water bombers being utilised in N.S.W. there is one DC-10, two 737's, two C-130's and a RJ85, they have all been operating from YSRI, Richmond R.A.A.F. base in Sydney's north west, they are working hard, mostly on the fires in N.S.W. There is also a stack of helicopters and smaller aircraft being used, both for water bombing and bird dogging.

Yes, I'm in Sydney. Not in a particularly dangerous area, but some crazy guy decided to set fire to the local cycleway/reserve this evening. I'm not sure exactly what time, but it was before 6:30pm and seemingly deliberately done to coincide with the gusty winds that have started this evening.

As for the riding, it was pretty hot - but I'm fit and I know my limits. So I stopped at 145km and did the remaining 65km this evening when it had cooled off.

Was that the fire near Blacktown in the evening ? There is always some dickhead out there who will do something crazy. It's not just the heat you need to be aware of at present, 5 hours of exercise in the smoke can't be doing the lungs a lot of good.

The change was significant in the evening and the winds were strong and gusty, 100kmh gusts recorded at the airport when it came through. The old southerlies used to have storms and rain with them, seems to be a thing of the past.

Prospect - just slightly east of Reconciliation Road. So yes, probably not too far from Blacktown. Oddly the area is totally fenced off, obviously the fool broke through there.

I’ve ridden almost 20,400km last year (2019)and feeling fitter than ever so don’t worry about me, I’ll be fine. I back off the intensity quite a lot when the smoke is heavy. The gusty wind is the more hazardous bit, especially with all the debris about the place.

cpd wrote:

jupiter2 wrote:

cpd wrote:

Yes, I'm in Sydney. Not in a particularly dangerous area, but some crazy guy decided to set fire to the local cycleway/reserve this evening. I'm not sure exactly what time, but it was before 6:30pm and seemingly deliberately done to coincide with the gusty winds that have started this evening.

As for the riding, it was pretty hot - but I'm fit and I know my limits. So I stopped at 145km and did the remaining 65km this evening when it had cooled off.

Was that the fire near Blacktown in the evening ? There is always some dickhead out there who will do something crazy. It's not just the heat you need to be aware of at present, 5 hours of exercise in the smoke can't be doing the lungs a lot of good.

The change was significant in the evening and the winds were strong and gusty, 100kmh gusts recorded at the airport when it came through. The old southerlies used to have storms and rain with them, seems to be a thing of the past.

Prospect - just slightly east of Reconciliation Road. So yes, probably not too far from Blacktown. Oddly the area is totally fenced off, obviously the fool broke through there.

I’ve ridden almost 20,400km last year (2019)and feeling fitter than ever so don’t worry about me, I’ll be fine. I back off the intensity quite a lot when the smoke is heavy. The gusty wind is the more hazardous bit, especially with all the debris about the place.

When it comes to stupidity, it knows no bounds.

Impressive, you've ridden more than I've driven in the past year

Just how bad these fires are:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/get ... 53o3n.html

That’s dreadful, the shelter burned down as well.

The video of the woman rescuing the koala that was on fire was heartbreaking, the rescue groups down there are stretched to breaking point as well.

I’ve been in the US for the last couple of weeks but it’s been incredible reading and watching the news from home. It has been a big relief escaping the smoke, but I almost feel I’ve run away from the place. I check the NSW RFS site each day and am still amazed to see fires burning along over 800 miles of NSW, let alone Victoria and SA.

These fires are epically worse than any others in my 55yr lifetime. The drought has clearly exacerbated things, but so many days over 40c so early in the season is also abnorma.

Kent350787 wrote:

I’ve been in the US for the last couple of weeks but it’s been incredible reading and watching the news from home. It has been a big relief escaping the smoke, but I almost feel I’ve run away from the place. I check the NSW RFS site each day and am still amazed to see fires burning along over 800 miles of NSW, let alone Victoria and SA.

These fires are epically worse than any others in my 55yr lifetime. The drought has clearly exacerbated things, but so many days over 40c so early in the season is also abnorma.

Indeed it is abnormal. I can judge it by another way, each Thursday evening I am an official for bicycle racing. Not once last year in the spring-summer period did I have to cancel racing by a storm or rain. Cancellations were by extreme heat and smoke (air quality was dangerous).

That we’ve never had before.

Kent350787 wrote:

I’ve been in the US for the last couple of weeks but it’s been incredible reading and watching the news from home. It has been a big relief escaping the smoke, but I almost feel I’ve run away from the place. I check the NSW RFS site each day and am still amazed to see fires burning along over 800 miles of NSW, let alone Victoria and SA.

I was glad to have a break from it in Tasmania recently, although it did creep over, from Victoria I assume, while I was there. Unfortunately, New Zealand has been much more affected.

New Zealand glaciers turn brown from Australian bushfires' smoke, ash and dust
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... h-and-dust

From the article: "Snow and glaciers in New Zealand have turned brown after being exposed to smoke, dust and ash from the Australian bushfire crisis. On Wednesday many parts of the South Island woke up to an orange haze and red sun, after smoke from the Victorian and New South Wales blazes drifted east on Tuesday night, smothering many parts of the island for most of the day. On Thursday, pictures taken from the Southern Alps showed the smoke haze had tinged snow-capped mountain peaks and glaciers a shade of caramel, with former prime minister Helen Clark expressing concern for the long-lasting environmental impacts on the mountains."

Not sure of the right words. It's very unfortunate that we can't keep our dirty smoke and * within our own borders. As an island nation, we don't usually have to deal with these type of events. Can I say sorry to our Kiwi friends and neighbours..


Source: https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/bl ... 53o0q.html

Blood red sun from Australian bushfire smoke greets NZ on New Year's Day

From the article: "New Zealanders woke to ominous scenes early on New Year's Day, with orange haze covering the sky and the sun stained blood red. Bushfires in Australia are spewing a massive current of smoke across the Tasman towards New Zealand, and it's likely to continue for a while. Imagery from the Japanese weather satellite Himawari-8 shows the blanket of smoke is wide enough to cover the entire South Island. "It's been happening for quite some time since the Aussie bushfires have been going. At the moment it's definitely more noticeable, especially over the South Island," he said."


Closer to home, Canberra has had another day without direct sunlight and won the title as the city with the worst air quality in the world for 2 January. The smoke was even visible inside buildings, a haze reminiscent of the 1980's - when smoking knew no bounds. Canberra has fires to the east and west, but is not under immediate threat. The south coast of New South Wales is being evacuated of tourists before the weekend, and I assume that the fires burning along the east coast, will eventually join up, given the right conditions. The less people down there the easier it will be for fire and emergency services. Challenging times.

Tomorrow is expected to be another bad day in the east of Victoria, with fires now in the Alpine areas. People in those areas have now been told to get out before tomorrow morning.

The Navy will also start evacuating people from Mallacoota tomorrow by sea. 4000 people are still stranded there, 1000 of whom are locals. Apparently it might be some time until road access can be restored (there are still active fires in the area)

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 53ob3.html

What gets me is that we have people who want to get into government say as a Prime Minister, and then they don't want to be accountable:

https://www.news.com.au/technology/envi ... c053ad0f3a

Either it is "now is not the right time to talk about it" or he is shutting down questions on topics that are awkward. I wish I had that luxury in my job.

VapourTrails wrote:

This article discusses potential further aircraft that ‘could’ be utilised from overseas.. Source: https://www.smh.com.au/national/firefig ... 53naw.html

From the article: “He said an aircraft worth testing was the Bombardier CL-415, a twin turbo-prop purpose-built aircraft capable of dropping 6000 litres and scooping water from the lakes, rivers and the ocean. But "Australia hasn't touched them yet", Mr Mullins said. DoSomething founder Jon Dee, whose house has been under threat in the Blue Mountains, said eight Hercules aircraft specially equipped for firefighting were available in the United States. What I and 29 other former chiefs are saying is that with longer and overlapping fire seasons it is just very clear that we are going to run out of large aircraft," he said. They should be looking at these scooping aircraft because Croatia, Italy France, Portugal and Canada have all got them and they are all in mothballs in winter. There are dozens of them and they are cheaper than jets.”


....

I think we had a topic around CL-215 and 415 in the past. In a nutshell they are been flown around the Med during summer depending on demand. It is quite frequent nowadays for Greek CLs to be extinguishing Israeli forest fires or French CLs to be assisting in Italy.

Not an expert but Australia might need slightly bigger planes, those CL-215, 415 are a bit more nimble and they are designed to do this well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780kgMb64Qg

But I think those:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShinMaywa_US-2
or those
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-200

Might be a better fit for Australia.

The Victorian Premier has just declared 'A State of Disaster' in the Alpine region & other fire affected areas. Basically means that forced evacuations can take place & property can be taken over by the emergency services for support & relief purposes as needed.

A friend was camping with his family in the Alpine region (Bright). He got an emergency text this afternoon advising of a town meeting this evening to discuss the situation, and was expecting to be told to leave tomorrow. However rumours started going around the town that an evacuation would be ordered tonight. He decided to pack up & leave with his family, they're currently driving back home to Melbourne....

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victo ... fd7fea43c9

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 53ogo.html

Draken21fx wrote:

VapourTrails wrote:

This article discusses potential further aircraft that ‘could’ be utilised from overseas.. Source: https://www.smh.com.au/national/firefig ... 53naw.html

From the article: “He said an aircraft worth testing was the Bombardier CL-415, a twin turbo-prop purpose-built aircraft capable of dropping 6000 litres and scooping water from the lakes, rivers and the ocean. But "Australia hasn't touched them yet", Mr Mullins said. DoSomething founder Jon Dee, whose house has been under threat in the Blue Mountains, said eight Hercules aircraft specially equipped for firefighting were available in the United States. What I and 29 other former chiefs are saying is that with longer and overlapping fire seasons it is just very clear that we are going to run out of large aircraft," he said. They should be looking at these scooping aircraft because Croatia, Italy France, Portugal and Canada have all got them and they are all in mothballs in winter. There are dozens of them and they are cheaper than jets.”


....

I think we had a topic around CL-215 and 415 in the past. In a nutshell they are been flown around the Med during summer depending on demand. It is quite frequent nowadays for Greek CLs to be extinguishing Israeli forest fires or French CLs to be assisting in Italy.

Not an expert but Australia might need slightly bigger planes, those CL-215, 415 are a bit more nimble and they are designed to do this well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780kgMb64Qg

But I think those:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ShinMaywa_US-2
or those
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-200

Might be a better fit for Australia.

Actually a fleet of the CL-415 would be an excellent addition. A lot of the fires are burning in some pretty rugged terrain and the smaller nimble aircraft maybe a better option than some of the large tankers being used at present. They would also have the benefit of being quicker to re-load, of course as long as there is a suitable water course they can operate into and out of, which in this country may not always be possible.

melpax wrote:

Tomorrow is expected to be another bad day in the east of Victoria, with fires now in the Alpine areas. People in those areas have now been told to get out before tomorrow morning.

The Navy will also start evacuating people from Mallacoota tomorrow by sea. 4000 people are still stranded there, 1000 of whom are locals. Apparently it might be some time until road access can be restored (there are still active fires in the area)

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 53ob3.html

What is even more frightening is that there are two fire fronts could merge across the NSW-Victoria border in the next 24 hours.

Let's forget the large loss of native animals and farm livestock because of these fires. This article paints a very grim picture.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/envi ... dae9fdd7c9

PM Scott Morrison defends climate policies and asks Australians to be 'patient' over fires

Link

Something good might come out of this. Australia is one of the largest producers of coal, and the PM is in denial of Climate chance, Australia opposed committing to goals in the COP in Madrid a few weeks back. This might change because of this.
Australian politics should not rely on coal money for funding. As this shows, it is bad politics in the end.

Dutchy wrote:

PM Scott Morrison defends climate policies and asks Australians to be 'patient' over fires

Link

Something good might come out of this. Australia is one of the largest producers of coal, and the PM is in denial of Climate chance, Australia opposed committing to goals in the COP in Madrid a few weeks back. This might change because of this.
Australian politics should not rely on coal money for funding. As this shows, it is bad politics in the end.

That comes under supply and demand, the only debate that may camevout of this is whether Australia will adopt nuclear for base load power which renewable cannot reliably supply

A101 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

PM Scott Morrison defends climate policies and asks Australians to be 'patient' over fires

Link

Something good might come out of this. Australia is one of the largest producers of coal, and the PM is in denial of Climate chance, Australia opposed committing to goals in the COP in Madrid a few weeks back. This might change because of this.
Australian politics should not rely on coal money for funding. As this shows, it is bad politics in the end.

That comes under supply and demand, the only debate that may camevout of this is whether Australia will adopt nuclear for base load power which renewable cannot reliably supply

However, people don’t want nuclear either. They have shown time and again that they love coal. That is proven by voting. Voting also proves Australian general public believes climate change isn’t happening.

This is of course until a disaster strikes and then the general public demands to know why more wasn’t done to stop it.

cpd wrote:

A101 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Link

Something good might come out of this. Australia is one of the largest producers of coal, and the PM is in denial of Climate chance, Australia opposed committing to goals in the COP in Madrid a few weeks back. This might change because of this.
Australian politics should not rely on coal money for funding. As this shows, it is bad politics in the end.

That comes under supply and demand, the only debate that may camevout of this is whether Australia will adopt nuclear for base load power which renewable cannot reliably supply

However, people don’t want nuclear either. They have shown time and again that they love coal. That is proven by voting. Voting also proves Australian general public believes climate change isn’t happening.

This is of course until a disaster strikes and then the general public demands to know why more wasn’t done to stop it.

I imagine it’s because the amount that Australia contributes to climate change is so insignificant it would not change a thing if Australia went to 0 emissions

This is what is wrong in politics at the moment:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/bus ... 53omq.html

You get the impression that the PM is there to save face and to try and get some PR opportunities his minders can spin into a positive.

When the NSW state version of the same political party appears to have abandoned its federal counterparts as far as policy goes, you know something is badly wrong.

A101 wrote:

cpd wrote:

A101 wrote:

That comes under supply and demand, the only debate that may camevout of this is whether Australia will adopt nuclear for base load power which renewable cannot reliably supply

However, people don’t want nuclear either. They have shown time and again that they love coal. That is proven by voting. Voting also proves Australian general public believes climate change isn’t happening.

This is of course until a disaster strikes and then the general public demands to know why more wasn’t done to stop it.

I imagine it’s because the amount that Australia contributes to climate change is so insignificant it would not change a thing if Australia went to 0 emissions

Ah, the old argument and a "great" excuse to do nothing. Per capita, you are one of the highest emitters of global warming gasses. Australia is responsible of 1,3% of the global emissions directly, with 25million people out of the 7,5billion of us, or per capita 3,9 times the average of humans. And that is the low end, factoring in the export of coal and other fossil fuels, it is 14,4 times the amount. So you call that insignificant?

Climate change makes extreme weather a lot more frequent and Australia has extreme weather at the moment. No one can deny that.

cpd wrote:

This is what is wrong in politics at the moment:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/bus ... 53omq.html

You get the impression that the PM is there to save face and to try and get some PR opportunities his minders can spin into a positive.

When the NSW state version of the same political party appears to have abandoned its federal counterparts as far as policy goes, you know something is badly wrong.

The NSW government shouldn't receive any praise or sympathy either for distancing itself from ScoMo. The NSW premier is complicit in this as well with her government's cut to the Fire and Rescue budget.

Light-hearted moment.. I do like the way that no matter how serious or unprecedented the ongoing threat of bushfire and the scale of the situation is, the rolling live coverage presenters all of a sudden switch the focus to the cricket! It is summer after all! The second most important thing going on in Australia right now - LOL. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cricket_in_Australia

Actually, a really welcome distraction, particularly with the packed BBL T20 season. Only one game has been smoked out so far, and tonight the game is in Hobart so no chance of it there at mo. They are finding creative ways to raise money for the Bushfire Appeal, one, by donating a pre-set amount every time they hit a six (clears the boundary). Sport brings people together in many ways. Source: https://www.cricket.com.au/news/chris-l ... 2020-01-03

For those who are interested in the thread topic, up to date and on the ground info is available at the public broadcaster who do stream live on YouTube nowadays.. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ht6tu4Gc3ag

Apparently the local fire near me (about 6km away) is still smouldering.

I’m in a fairly safe area where I think it cannot get to here, but it is still concerning. Especially for those in the nearby housing development which is very close to the fire.

cpd wrote:

I’m in a fairly safe area where I think it cannot get to here, but it is still concerning.

I was in Canberra during the 2003 bushfire, or firestorm as it was called. That was my first close range bushfire experience. I gauge from that, when the ash starts falling and the sky changes colour, as a time to panic, and in that situation we weren’t threatened, just didn’t realise how close it was. However, technology and public information has come a long way since then.

I have an alert set on my phone when there is a fire within 50km of a set point. I agree, it is concerning. Having a first-hand account of an escape from the south coast, I need to follow my own advice in my own environment. Keep the car filled up, the phone charged. Leave the suitcase half packed until the end of summer. I don’t have a pet now so the anxiety there is much less. The house is ready as I can make it, as I did that before I went on vacation. I feel I could always do more, but I consider my threat low touchwood.

I’ve never been to Kangaroo Island but interesting to see how that fares. People are still there, and not panicking apparently.

Dutchy wrote:

A101 wrote:

cpd wrote:

However, people don’t want nuclear either. They have shown time and again that they love coal. That is proven by voting. Voting also proves Australian general public believes climate change isn’t happening.
This is of course until a disaster strikes and then the general public demands to know why more wasn’t done to stop it.

I imagine it’s because the amount that Australia contributes to climate change is so insignificant it would not change a thing if Australia went to 0 emissions

Ah, the old argument and a "great" excuse to do nothing. Per capita, you are one of the highest emitters of global warming gasses. Australia is responsible of 1,3% of the global emissions directly, with 25million people out of the 7,5billion of us, or per capita 3,9 times the average of humans. And that is the low end, factoring in the export of coal and other fossil fuels, it is 14,4 times the amount. So you call that insignificant?

Yep when you compare emissions in total Australia itself produces very little, when you use per capita its very misleading as Australia population is very small compared to output in other countries when you spread it over a greater mass

Dutchy wrote:

Climate change makes extreme weather a lot more frequent and Australia has extreme weather at the moment. No one can deny that.

Actually, Australia is getting a decline in extreme temperatures from over a hundred years ago

http://www.waclimate.net/extreme-temperatures.html

A101 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

A101 wrote:

I imagine it’s because the amount that Australia contributes to climate change is so insignificant it would not change a thing if Australia went to 0 emissions

Ah, the old argument and a "great" excuse to do nothing. Per capita, you are one of the highest emitters of global warming gasses. Australia is responsible of 1,3% of the global emissions directly, with 25million people out of the 7,5billion of us, or per capita 3,9 times the average of humans. And that is the low end, factoring in the export of coal and other fossil fuels, it is 14,4 times the amount. So you call that insignificant?

Yep when you compare emissions in total Australia itself produces very little, when you use per capita its very misleading as Australia population is very small compared to output in other countries when you spread it over a greater mass

No, per capita is the only fair way to do it. An Australian doesn't have more right to pollute than someone from Peru, Singapore, Kenia or Slovakia. Or do you think you are entitled to pollute more, perhaps even more because of your dual citizenship?

Dutchy wrote:

No, per capita is the only fair way to do it.

its the only way to get your argument across does not mean its the correct way, or do you think that Luxembourg should also be treated that way with a population of 613,894 and greenhouse gases per capita 16.47t per person compared with Australia population of 25,572,766 and per capita of 16.5t


if Australia reduced its green house emissions to zero which is physically impossible what do you think would be the net gain to overall green house gases

https://www.bettermeetsreality.com/coun ... n-dioxide/

Dutchy wrote:

An Australian doesn't have more right to pollute than someone from Peru, Singapore, Kenia or Slovakia. Or do you think you are entitled to pollute more, perhaps even more because of your dual citizenship?

That is Australian sovereign right on how industry is regulated not someone from Peru, Singapore, Kenia or Slovakia to decide

VHVXB wrote:

cpd wrote:

This is what is wrong in politics at the moment:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/bus ... 53omq.html

You get the impression that the PM is there to save face and to try and get some PR opportunities his minders can spin into a positive.

When the NSW state version of the same political party appears to have abandoned its federal counterparts as far as policy goes, you know something is badly wrong.

The NSW government shouldn't receive any praise or sympathy either for distancing itself from ScoMo. The NSW premier is complicit in this as well with her government's cut to the Fire and Rescue budget.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/morriso ... 53odj.html

Yeah I think the PM is miss handling the optics very badly, resource allocation is a state matter. I can understand the civil population being angry but for actual RFS firefighters to do it is a complete lack of respect

Climate change doesn't care about sovereignty.