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Aaron747
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Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:00 am

The shoulder of Orion is fading fast, according to astronomers. One of the most well-known stars in our stellar neighborhood may be dying, is about to, or its life-ending event could still be decades or centuries away. But something’s a-changing and it’s certainly interesting:

Normally, Betelgeuse is among the 10 brightest stars in the sky. However, the red giant began dimming in October, and by mid-December, the star had faded so much it wasn’t even in the top 20, Villanova University’s Edward Guinanreported in an Astronomer’s Telegram....

.... it is unusual for one of the sky’s most prominent points of light to fade so noticeably, prompting scientists to consider the possibility that something more exciting could be about to happen: Betelgeuse might explode and die, briefly blazing brighter than the full moon before vanishing from our night sky forever.


https://relay.nationalgeographic.com/pr ... -supernova
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Cadet985
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:44 am

Interesting. I didn’t know about Betelgeuse being one of the brightest stars in the sky; on a clear night, I’m able to see Orion’s Belt before any other constellation. I actually can’t remember the last time I saw the whole constellation of Orion.

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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:47 am

Cadet985 wrote:
Interesting. I didn’t know about Betelgeuse being one of the brightest stars in the sky; on a clear night, I’m able to see Orion’s Belt before any other constellation. I actually can’t remember the last time I saw the whole constellation of Orion.

Marc



It is the upper and left shoulder of Orion. If you can see the belt, you can see Betelgeuse as it is still apparently brighter. . .
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:57 am

The true mindf**k here is that it may have already died, but we don't know it yet. It takes a little over 600 years for Betelgeuse's light to reach us.

I wonder if the Hubble makes it any "more recent".
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:12 am

fr8mech wrote:
The true mindf**k here is that it may have already died, but we don't know it yet. It takes a little over 600 years for Betelgeuse's light to reach us.

I wonder if the Hubble makes it any "more recent".



How will it do so? It is not functionally closer than we are. . .
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:27 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
How will it do so? It is not functionally closer than we are. . .


It can see farther (into the past).
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:29 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
fr8mech wrote:
The true mindf**k here is that it may have already died, but we don't know it yet. It takes a little over 600 years for Betelgeuse's light to reach us.

I wonder if the Hubble makes it any "more recent".



How will it do so? It is not functionally closer than we are. . .


Correct, HST’s incredible magnification abilities only work on light that’s arriving at the moment of capture, though it does allow us to see distortions and other anomalies affected by gravitational lensing.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:30 am

Technically, it could have already gone supernova.

When you see at night (and I look up at almost nightly, the light you see tonight, was emitted to reach your eyes now 100 years before Columbus left...so the explosion 'light' is still on it's way.

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate to see it 'missing'.

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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:32 am

BN747 wrote:
Technically, it could have already gone supernova.

When you see at night (and I look up at almost nightly, the light you see tonight, was emitted to reach your eyes now 100 years before Columbus left...so the explosion 'light' is still on it's way.

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate to see it 'missing'.

BN747


It would be incredible though to experience a significant supernova in a well-known constellation in our lifetimes, considering how insignificant our corporeal experiences are on the timeline.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:43 am

Aaron747 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Technically, it could have already gone supernova.

When you see at night (and I look up at almost nightly, the light you see tonight, was emitted to reach your eyes now 100 years before Columbus left...so the explosion 'light' is still on it's way.

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate to see it 'missing'.

BN747


It would be incredible though to experience a significant supernova in a well-known constellation in our lifetimes, considering how insignificant our corporeal experiences are on the timeline.


Can't argue with that, I just hope Gamma ray burst aren't apart of it's demise, it we're in the path of that...we can kiss our atmosphere good bye! And we would all suddenly know the feeing of 'a fish out of water'

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:07 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:43 am

fr8mech wrote:
The true mindf**k here is that it may have already died, but we don't know it yet. It takes a little over 600 years for Betelgeuse's light to reach us.

I wonder if the Hubble makes it any "more recent".


We ll the Hubble may know first, but by the time it told us, we would already know.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:42 am

casinterest wrote:
fr8mech wrote:
The true mindf**k here is that it may have already died, but we don't know it yet. It takes a little over 600 years for Betelgeuse's light to reach us.

I wonder if the Hubble makes it any "more recent".


We ll the Hubble may know first, but by the time it told us, we would already know.

True, I didn’t understand the comment about Hubble either. Yes, it can look further and consequently further back in time but that’s irrelevant to Betelgeuse.
 
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Correct, HST’s incredible magnification abilities only work on light that’s arriving at the moment of capture, though it does allow us to see distortions and other anomalies affected by gravitational lensing.


Didn't think of it that way. Makes sense. Sometimes, this stuff is hard to conceptualize, especially at 0300'ish.

Learn something new everyday.

Either way, that star may be dead now, and we still don't know it.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:20 am

BN747 wrote:
Technically, it could have already gone supernova.

When you see at night (and I look up at almost nightly, the light you see tonight, was emitted to reach your eyes now 100 years before Columbus left...so the explosion 'light' is still on it's way.

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate to see it 'missing'.

BN747


I hope we do see it in our lifetime, it must be spectacular. But indeed Orion will be misted though.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 4:30 pm

I read an article about it where some astronomers posit that Betelgeuse may still have some life left (millions of years). Red supergiants like Betelgeuse have cycles and they argue that this is merely a minimum in the cycle. Judging by the expected behavior of giants and supergiants, it makes sense as these stars are rather unstable. The period of stability may be a constant output of light and energy, but the instability may be a diminishing output or a sudden violent outburst.

That being said though, it's a shame we won't see this in our lifetimes. It should be a spectacular sight to behold seeing the night sky with a spot brighter than the Moon, and if it lasts to the point where its position enters the daytime sky, a faint spot during the day.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:17 pm

BN747 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Technically, it could have already gone supernova.

When you see at night (and I look up at almost nightly, the light you see tonight, was emitted to reach your eyes now 100 years before Columbus left...so the explosion 'light' is still on it's way.

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate to see it 'missing'.

BN747


It would be incredible though to experience a significant supernova in a well-known constellation in our lifetimes, considering how insignificant our corporeal experiences are on the timeline.


Can't argue with that, I just hope Gamma ray burst aren't apart of it's demise, it we're in the path of that...we can kiss our atmosphere good bye! And we would all suddenly know the feeing of 'a fish out of water'

BN747

As per Betelgeuse‘s Wikipedia-page that’s not very likely:

Betelgeuse is not likely to produce a gamma-ray burst and is not close enough for its x-rays, ultraviolet radiation, or ejected material to cause significant effects on Earth.

Source and much more interesting staff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse
 
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:52 pm

N14AZ wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It would be incredible though to experience a significant supernova in a well-known constellation in our lifetimes, considering how insignificant our corporeal experiences are on the timeline.


Can't argue with that, I just hope Gamma ray burst aren't apart of it's demise, it we're in the path of that...we can kiss our atmosphere good bye! And we would all suddenly know the feeing of 'a fish out of water'

BN747

As per Betelgeuse‘s Wikipedia-page that’s not very likely:

Betelgeuse is not likely to produce a gamma-ray burst and is not close enough for its x-rays, ultraviolet radiation, or ejected material to cause significant effects on Earth.

Source and much more interesting staff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse

So this raises a question I've wondered for some time - how close would a supernova have to occur to have affects on our planet? Or is even the closest star too far away to matter?
I'd love to see Betelgeuse go bang - what a spectacular sight it would be..... :crossfingers:
 
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:45 pm

ER757 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Can't argue with that, I just hope Gamma ray burst aren't apart of it's demise, it we're in the path of that...we can kiss our atmosphere good bye! And we would all suddenly know the feeing of 'a fish out of water'

BN747

As per Betelgeuse‘s Wikipedia-page that’s not very likely:

Betelgeuse is not likely to produce a gamma-ray burst and is not close enough for its x-rays, ultraviolet radiation, or ejected material to cause significant effects on Earth.

Source and much more interesting staff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse

So this raises a question I've wondered for some time - how close would a supernova have to occur to have affects on our planet? Or is even the closest star too far away to matter?
I'd love to see Betelgeuse go bang - what a spectacular sight it would be..... :crossfingers:

26 light years. I have no clue if we have a star that „close“ to us... :-/
 
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:36 pm

N14AZ wrote:
ER757 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
As per Betelgeuse‘s Wikipedia-page that’s not very likely:


Source and much more interesting staff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse

So this raises a question I've wondered for some time - how close would a supernova have to occur to have affects on our planet? Or is even the closest star too far away to matter?
I'd love to see Betelgeuse go bang - what a spectacular sight it would be..... :crossfingers:

26 light years. I have no clue if we have a star that „close“ to us... :-/

Wow, so that's quire a blast zone! Would be a pretty bad day for any planet orbiting a star that went supernova........
 
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:44 am

Do we know if Betelgeuse has any potentially habitable planets orbitting it? Because if it does then you can't keep crossing your fingers for it to explode, living things on those planets might deserve better.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 12:58 am

Airstud wrote:
Do we know if Betelgeuse has any potentially habitable planets orbitting it? Because if it does then you can't keep crossing your fingers for it to explode, living things on those planets might deserve better.


A logical concern...fortunately the environment around Betelgeuse is pretty messed up and there are no known orbital companions.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:21 am

N14AZ wrote:
ER757 wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
As per Betelgeuse‘s Wikipedia-page that’s not very likely:


Source and much more interesting staff: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse

So this raises a question I've wondered for some time - how close would a supernova have to occur to have affects on our planet? Or is even the closest star too far away to matter?
I'd love to see Betelgeuse go bang - what a spectacular sight it would be..... :crossfingers:

26 light years. I have no clue if we have a star that „close“ to us... :-/


Alpha Centauri is a mere 4.37 ly from us...and likely candidates for biological lifeforms may exist within it's system.

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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:45 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
Do we know if Betelgeuse has any potentially habitable planets orbitting it? Because if it does then you can't keep crossing your fingers for it to explode, living things on those planets might deserve better.


A logical concern...fortunately the environment around Betelgeuse is pretty messed up and there are no known orbital companions.


Indeed. The environment in that system would be a veritable hell-scape of radiation and thermal energy. If we had asteroids -somehow- with an orbital distance only two thirds that of Mercury around the Sun, that would have about the same odds of evolving life.

Worse so also considering the incredible variation in outputs over mere dozens of thousands of years.



BN747 wrote:

Alpha Centauri is a mere 4.37 ly from us...and likely candidates for biological lifeforms may exist within it's system.

BN747


This is true. But also worthy of note is the fact that the Centuri System is a binary with also a third companion star. This has a fair amount of tidal issues for any potential world to contend with. Any life evolving in-step with that would be unrecognizable to us.

From everything I've seen, the best contenders near us would be Tau Ceti -about twelve lights- and Epsilon Eridani -10.5 lights.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 1:52 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Alpha Centauri is a mere 4.37 ly from us...and likely candidates for biological lifeforms may exist within it's system.

BN747


This is true. But also worthy of note is the fact that the Centuri System is a binary with also a third companion star. This has a fair amount of tidal issues for any potential world to contend with. Any life evolving in-step with that would be unrecognizable to us.

From everything I've seen, the best contenders near us would be Tau Ceti -about twelve lights- and Epsilon Eridani -10.5 lights.


Exactly, there are regions of the galaxy & universe where Earth-born laws of physics do not apply or resemble in any way shape or recognizable form.
It is the universe who holds the cards on mysteries...not earth.

That's why when fantasizing about unknown worlds...bear in mind the unexpected, unanticipated surprises that could be so shocking that no response could address it.
Reverse of course is not an option..

Within 26ly...that' a huge chunk of real estate and plenty of stars but I'd think that any nearing their death throes would already have Messier designations (be indentified by now).


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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:39 am

BN747 wrote:
Exactly, there are regions of the galaxy & universe where Earth-born laws of physics do not apply or resemble in any way shape or recognizable form.
It is the universe who holds the cards on mysteries...not earth.

So far, the only known place where the laws of physics don't seem to make any sense is after the event horizon of black holes. I purposely exclude the very edges of the universe because even if we could travel at the speed of light (or discover that it is possible to go faster), the universe is expanding far too quickly for us to reach its edges, so whatever happens beyond the boundaries is simply a mystery.

In the meantime, the current framework does a good job of describing everything from subatomic particles to supercluster structures and there is no reason to suspect that the laws of physics would be any different in any other planetary body or stellar system. Of course, where the framework falls short is attempting to unify general relativity with quantum field theory (i.e. theory of everything).
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 4:04 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Exactly, there are regions of the galaxy & universe where Earth-born laws of physics do not apply or resemble in any way shape or recognizable form.
It is the universe who holds the cards on mysteries...not earth.

So far, the only known place where the laws of physics don't seem to make any sense is after the event horizon of black holes. I purposely exclude the very edges of the universe because even if we could travel at the speed of light (or discover that it is possible to go faster), the universe is expanding far too quickly for us to reach its edges, so whatever happens beyond the boundaries is simply a mystery.

In the meantime, the current framework does a good job of describing everything from subatomic particles to supercluster structures and there is no reason to suspect that the laws of physics would be any different in any other planetary body or stellar system. Of course, where the framework falls short is attempting to unify general relativity with quantum field theory (i.e. theory of everything).


Which, is what I said basically.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:11 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Exactly, there are regions of the galaxy & universe where Earth-born laws of physics do not apply or resemble in any way shape or recognizable form.
It is the universe who holds the cards on mysteries...not earth.

So far, the only known place where the laws of physics don't seem to make any sense is after the event horizon of black holes. I purposely exclude the very edges of the universe because even if we could travel at the speed of light (or discover that it is possible to go faster), the universe is expanding far too quickly for us to reach its edges, so whatever happens beyond the boundaries is simply a mystery.

In the meantime, the current framework does a good job of describing everything from subatomic particles to supercluster structures and there is no reason to suspect that the laws of physics would be any different in any other planetary body or stellar system. Of course, where the framework falls short is attempting to unify general relativity with quantum field theory (i.e. theory of everything).


...and that last comment was my point.

What you state, the observation of the large (world) defined by experimental physics and the world of the infinitesimal (the quantum world) - both played out by two entirely different set of rules/laws. What goes on in the large can apply in quantum world - but not the reverse, no way can quantum world (laws) apply in the world that we see. No Grand Unified Field Theory has yet brought/linked two together thus far..which is why the hopes of unification of the two reside in String Theory. And yet to be proven. But the laws of physics as we know them - take a back seat here.

Theoretical physics & particle physics are the gateway to the world of String Theory, which opens vast galactic sized wild wild west of possibilities. Because of that, the details of 'the details' can be 'theorized'/hypothesized down to the letter (or closer than current understanding) but not yet necessarily tested but are still too important to be ignored and combinations too numerous to count..therein lies the unpredictability(s).

Anomalies are rife throughout the galaxy and the universe, our physics do not necessarily apply thus their defying explanation. String Theory comes in handy here as it points in the direction of understanding which could result in 'a new math/a new physics'...so much to more to be understood.

It is this realm of where unpredictability goes off the charts and can make all the difference in the world. And it better prepares us for the unknown(s). It's the best case of 'having every scrap of detail/information' betters our chance of success.

BN747
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:51 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I read an article about it where some astronomers posit that Betelgeuse may still have some life left (millions of years). Red supergiants like Betelgeuse have cycles and they argue that this is merely a minimum in the cycle. Judging by the expected behavior of giants and supergiants, it makes sense as these stars are rather unstable. The period of stability may be a constant output of light and energy, but the instability may be a diminishing output or a sudden violent outburst.

That being said though, it's a shame we won't see this in our lifetimes. It should be a spectacular sight to behold seeing the night sky with a spot brighter than the Moon, and if it lasts to the point where its position enters the daytime sky, a faint spot during the day.


Apparently the brightness from a Super Nova would rival that of a full moon and even be visible during daytime.

Airstud wrote:
Do we know if Betelgeuse has any potentially habitable planets orbitting it? Because if it does then you can't keep crossing your fingers for it to explode, living things on those planets might deserve better.


If the star does have habitable planets orbiting it, most likely if this star is near the end of its life the so called goldilocks zone has been moved out pretty far.

Even long before the sun dies in 5 billion years it will render earth far warmer in probably half that time where the average temp will be 47 degrees Celsius as opposed to the current 15 degrees. The goldilocks zone will move out to the outer planets where some of the moons of the gas giants might be habitable. If Earth does sustain life it won't be us as 47 degrees is too hot for mammals.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:22 am

When it goes/went SuperNova, then the habitable planets sorry about Climate Change will reach it 's end.
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:23 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Apparently the brightness from a Super Nova would rival that of a full moon and even be visible during daytime.

Depends on how close and how bright the supernova is. It may be brighter than Venus, enough to cast shadows, but probably a tad brighter than the full moon. And while it may be visible during the day, some think it'll be only just visible.

I think the biggest thing from Betelgeuse going supernova is that we'd be seeing how elements are spread across the galactic medium. To think that in a fraction of a second, when the outer layers come crashing down into the core, elements heavier than iron are created and then blown away into other regions where it may potentially join to form a new planet. Just think about that: the reason elements heavier than hydrogen even exist is all because of nuclear fusion inside a star and while many stars will only burn up to carbon before becoming white dwarves, supergiants like Betelgeuse fuse beyond that until they produce a critical mass of iron, from which they die, but give birth to the heaviest elements known to humanity. So far, the heaviest element thought to be produced as a result of a supernova is uranium (which can decay into neptunium and plutonium), but a supergiant like Betelgeuse may produce trace amounts of heavier elements (provided they can be detected as anything beyond plutonium has no stable isotope).
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:36 am

I'd like to see Betelgeuse go supernova at some point in my lifetime, but I don't think the recent activity means anything as an indication that it is about to die in the coming days or decades. It is interesting nevertheless as it is very well studied. There are a handful of other stars that also have had such mood swings but are still with us. Eta Carinae is one of those and was at one point in the 1800s, one of the brightest stars in the night sky, but has faded in brightness to the point that it is no longer visible to the naked eye.

I'd like to be wrong about the when, and if I am, I hope we have plenty of neutrino observatories operational to give us the early warning to point our telescopes to the star to capture the moment it explodes.
 
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ER757
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:06 am

Erebus wrote:
I'd like to see Betelgeuse go supernova at some point in my lifetime, but I don't think the recent activity means anything as an indication that it is about to die in the coming days or decades. It is interesting nevertheless as it is very well studied. There are a handful of other stars that also have had such mood swings but are still with us. Eta Carinae is one of those and was at one point in the 1800s, one of the brightest stars in the night sky, but has faded in brightness to the point that it is no longer visible to the naked eye.

I'd like to be wrong about the when, and if I am, I hope we have plenty of neutrino observatories operational to give us the early warning to point our telescopes to the star to capture the moment it explodes.

isn't Eta Carinae insanely large? I seem to remember a show, maybe it was Cosmos, maybe it was How the Universe Works, but they showed the sun, and then next to it in scale, ever larger stars - and Eta Carinae made the sun look like a pea next to a basketball
 
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Erebus
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 6:08 am

ER757 wrote:
Erebus wrote:
I'd like to see Betelgeuse go supernova at some point in my lifetime, but I don't think the recent activity means anything as an indication that it is about to die in the coming days or decades. It is interesting nevertheless as it is very well studied. There are a handful of other stars that also have had such mood swings but are still with us. Eta Carinae is one of those and was at one point in the 1800s, one of the brightest stars in the night sky, but has faded in brightness to the point that it is no longer visible to the naked eye.

I'd like to be wrong about the when, and if I am, I hope we have plenty of neutrino observatories operational to give us the early warning to point our telescopes to the star to capture the moment it explodes.

isn't Eta Carinae insanely large? I seem to remember a show, maybe it was Cosmos, maybe it was How the Universe Works, but they showed the sun, and then next to it in scale, ever larger stars - and Eta Carinae made the sun look like a pea next to a basketball


If you're referring to size, Eta Carinae's primary star isn't quite among the biggest. Its radius is about one order of a magnitude bigger than our sun's. But Betelgeuse's radius is two orders of magnitude bigger than Eta Carinae!

If you're referring to mass, it is the other way around. Betelgeuse's mass is about one order of magnitude bigger than our sun's. Eta Carinae's primary star is in the 100+ solar mass range, possibly up to 150 solar masses. There's a bit of uncertainty regarding the exact mass since it has a companion star which is also quite large and some others in the vicinity making measurements difficult. But for sure, it is an absolute monster in terms of mass, that is among the upper limits of our current understanding of stellar evolution.
 
seat64k
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:43 pm

Speaking of size, the wikipedia page has a handy infographic demonstrating the scale:

Image
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:52 pm

Bizar to think about size in the universe. The sun is very small compared to Betelgeuse.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
BN747
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Wed Jan 01, 2020 8:15 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Bizar to think about size in the universe. The sun is very small compared to Betelgeuse.


And it completely disappears when measured against VY Canis Majoris (#4 in the diagram above your post) and Betelguese is that tiny white pea at the beginning.

BN747
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ER757
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:24 am

Dutchy wrote:
Bizar to think about size in the universe. The sun is very small compared to Betelgeuse.

Indeed - it boggles the mind when you realize the sun is a million miles across and compared to some of the other stars shown in those charts in doesn't even register!
 
tommy1808
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:09 am

Aaron747 wrote:
The shoulder of Orion is fading fast, according to astronomers. One of the most well-known stars in our stellar neighborhood may be dying, is about to, or its life-ending event could still be decades or centuries away. But something’s a-changing and it’s certainly interesting:


Its funny, i read about it this morning and i was already thinking it isn´t as bright as it used to be in the last couple of days, as it usually is bright enough to clearly see that it isn´t white, but has redish light, and it has gotten dimm enough to make that really hard to notice. It also happens to be my favorite star. Saying that, and naming most of my products by arabic star names, i am quite surprised we don´t have a Betelgeuse yet.

DIRECTFLT wrote:
When it goes/went SuperNova, then the habitable planets sorry about Climate Change will reach it 's end.


Nah, that is going to be one hell, literally, of climate change for the local system if that goes boom.

Keep in mind, however large you think a Supernova is, it is bigger.....

Dutchy wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Technically, it could have already gone supernova.

When you see at night (and I look up at almost nightly, the light you see tonight, was emitted to reach your eyes now 100 years before Columbus left...so the explosion 'light' is still on it's way.

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate to see it 'missing'.

BN747


I hope we do see it in our lifetime, it must be spectacular. But indeed Orion will be misted though.


Me too. I wonder how long we´d be seeing whats left with the naked eye.

Dutchy wrote:
Bizar to think about size in the universe. The sun is very small compared to Betelgeuse.


If the sun swapped places with it, we´d still be inside it.....

einsteinboricua wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Apparently the brightness from a Super Nova would rival that of a full moon and even be visible during daytime.

Depends on how close and how bright the supernova is.


They are always bright. :biggrin:
To go with XKCD, whats brighter, a Supernova watched from 1 AU away or a thermonuklear bomb going of pressed against your eyeball?

The Supernova by 9 orders of Magnitude.
It would also send out enough Neutrinos, those things that go thought a light-year worth of lead pretty much without noticing, to kill you (before the rest of the Supernova arrives to kill you again) looking at it from Mars.......
https://what-if.xkcd.com/73/

So far, the heaviest element thought to be produced as a result of a supernova is uranium (which can decay into neptunium and plutonium), but a supergiant like Betelgeuse may produce trace amounts of heavier elements (provided they can be detected as anything beyond plutonium has no stable isotope).


technically there is nothing stable beyond Iron :biggrin:
Radioaktive and stable are pretty much mutually exclusive after all.

Isn´t the heavy stuff rather made by neutron star collisions than by supernovae?

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:31 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Me too. I wonder how long we´d be seeing whats left with the naked eye.


Apparently 2 weeks.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:38 pm

Interestingly, this won't be the first supernova observed by humans. First recorded supernova was 185 AD. The most recent supernova recorded within the milky way was in 1604. Since then all of our observations have occurred in other galaxies.

Probably the coolest thing, at least to me, is that we are able to find remnants / nebula of these events to confirm they really were supernova.

Some day in, 3020 they'll be celebrating (or maybe mourning) the end of the constellation of Orion as we know it.
 
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Erebus
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:57 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Interestingly, this won't be the first supernova observed by humans. First recorded supernova was 185 AD. The most recent supernova recorded within the milky way was in 1604. Since then all of our observations have occurred in other galaxies.


Betelgeuse going supernova would be something unique compared to everything else recorded by humans. As far as I'm aware, it appears that historical records of previous supernovae identified them as "guest stars" when they suddenly appeared in the sky. A Betelgeuse supernova, however, could be the first one on the record whose progenitor star was visible to the naked eye.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:16 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Me too. I wonder how long we´d be seeing whats left with the naked eye.


Apparently 2 weeks.

Where did you read this?

I read several articles about Betelgeuse but most come to the conclusion that it will take much longer, for example this one:

Betelgeuse has varied its brightness for centuries and even perhaps has changed its color. Indeed, it is expected that a star in the last stages of using up all of its stellar fuel will undergo changes and the timescale for stellar evolution is much longer than human timescales. Astronomers predict that Betelgeuse will continue to burn through the last of its fuel for as many as 100,000 years. So, as exciting as the prospect of getting such a close view of a supernova is for astronomers, this outcome is improbable during our lifetime.

Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/01/opin ... index.html
 
bhill
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:21 pm

You silly Monkeys.....We are just putting the last tiles of our Dyson Sphere into place...pretty soon, you will not see any visible light from it..
Carpe Pices
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:30 am

bhill wrote:
You silly Monkeys.....We are just putting the last tiles of our Dyson Sphere into place...pretty soon, you will not see any visible light from it..



MorningLightMountain. . .
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prebennorholm
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:38 am

N14AZ wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Me too. I wonder how long we´d be seeing whats left with the naked eye.

Apparently 2 weeks.

Where did you read this?

I read several articles about Betelgeuse but most come to the conclusion that it will take much longer, for example this one:

Betelgeuse has varied its brightness for centuries and even perhaps has changed its color. Indeed, it is expected that a star in the last stages of using up all of its stellar fuel will undergo changes and the timescale for stellar evolution is much longer than human timescales. Astronomers predict that Betelgeuse will continue to burn through the last of its fuel for as many as 100,000 years. So, as exciting as the prospect of getting such a close view of a supernova is for astronomers, this outcome is improbable during our lifetime.

Apples and oranges. Betelgeuse may go SN tomorrow or in a hundred thousand years. We won't know until it happens. The only thing special is that Betelgeuse is the only pretty close star which is expected to go SN within millions of years.

But when it goes SN, then it will shine as a very bright daytime star for a couple of weeks. That's not something Dutchy needs to read somewhere, that's ordinary knowledge from observing umpteen SNs in other galaxies, and for modelling the physics going on as the neutron star is created from the ashes of the SN.

During the next one hundred thousand years we will likely see dozens of beautiful SNs in our own galaxy, but at dozens of thousand lightyears distance. Neighbor Betelgeuse at 600 lightyears is something special.
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:46 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:
Bizar to think about size in the universe. The sun is very small compared to Betelgeuse.


If the sun swapped places with it, we´d still be inside it.....



Yes. It would extend almost to the orbit of Jupiter.
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DL717
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:35 pm

BN747 wrote:
Technically, it could have already gone supernova.

When you see at night (and I look up at almost nightly, the light you see tonight, was emitted to reach your eyes now 100 years before Columbus left...so the explosion 'light' is still on it's way.

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate to see it 'missing'.

BN747


If it did already, it would continue to be monitored long after we’re gone. They still look at Kepler remnants and it happened 400 years ago. We’d lose visibility in a few short weeks so it would be pretty bizarre to see that happen, but we’d likely be able to get picture of the dissipation from time to time given how much interest such an event would generate.

https://www.space.com/20670-johannes-ke ... dwarf.html
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BN747
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:01 am

DL717 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
Technically, it could have already gone supernova.

When you see at night (and I look up at almost nightly, the light you see tonight, was emitted to reach your eyes now 100 years before Columbus left...so the explosion 'light' is still on it's way.

I hope that's not the case, I'd hate to see it 'missing'.

BN747


If it did already, it would continue to be monitored long after we’re gone. They still look at Kepler remnants and it happened 400 years ago. We’d lose visibility in a few short weeks so it would be pretty bizarre to see that happen, but we’d likely be able to get picture of the dissipation from time to time given how much interest such an event would generate.

https://www.space.com/20670-johannes-ke ... dwarf.html


That's true. Not only that VY Canis Majoris and far far bigger than Betelgeuse is also the same type of star near it's end. Athough it's 4000ly from us in than Betelguese..a star that big is also gonna make a mark.

But this made me ask myself, why are these two Super Massive Stars so close to our neck of the woods?
Betelgeuse - 640 lyr
Canis Majoris - 5000 lyr

...there is just no way all that the heavy players are all on this end of the 120-140,000 lyr (diameter) Milky Way. Just in the Milky Way there has to be giants this big sort of evenly spread across each arm. Then Andromeda, 240+ lyr diameter (twice our size) has, HAS to have what have and then some!

BN747
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Erebus
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:45 am

Betelgeuse is brightening again. Sorry. No supernova boom any time soon. Likely convection cell/s turning over causing brightness changes.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Betelgeuse to go Supernova in Days or Decades?

Fri Aug 14, 2020 1:48 pm

Erebus wrote:
Betelgeuse is brightening again. Sorry. No supernova boom any time soon. Likely convection cell/s turning over causing brightness changes.



Interesting Follow up. Hubble saw it all happen.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/14/world/be ... index.html

The superheated plasma was released from the star through a large convection cell, like hot bubbles rising in boiling water -- except hundreds of times the size of our sun.
When the star ejected this large amount of hot material comprised of gases, the material cooled as it reached the star's outer layers and formed a dust cloud that blocked starlight from about a quarter of the star's surface.
"With Hubble, we see the material as it left the star's visible surface and moved out through the atmosphere, before the dust formed that caused the star to appear to dim," said Andrea Dupree, lead researcher and associate director of The Center for Astrophysics | Harvard & Smithsonian, in a statement. "Only Hubble gives us this evidence of what led up to the dimming."
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