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SCQ83
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:23 am

I hope the whole cruising industry goes belly up. If something summarizes all the stupid things about the pre-COVID times, it is the cruise industry:

- Extremely polluting and environmentally unfriendly
- Extremely unsustainable tourism (just puts thousands of people crowding small places).
- All those convenience flags and treatment of workers.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4428
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:04 pm

There are plus and minuses on all of those points, SCQ. I doubt that cruises are all that less green than flying halfway around the world (but a cruise also may involve that), the numbers we look it should be energy per day. Washington and Alaska like the industry, but need to keep a knee on their neck - they cheat at the drop on an anchor. They do need to come up with a plan for avoiding and coping with the next epidemic. They are good at it, and likely have something to teach us. Low paid workers need to be treated better, but that is true even in my home blue true state of Washington. I am for it. The industry has no difficulty getting workers, and many if not most like their jobs.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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Aesma
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:12 pm

OA260 wrote:
Wow just wow !!!

Florida attorney general investigating Norwegian Cruise Line for allegedly misleading customers over COVID-19 dangers

MIAMI – A major cruise line could be sailing into some hot water for allegedly downplaying the severity of COVID-19 to its customers.

On Monday, Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody announced an investigation into Norwegian after allegations were made that the cruise line was providing its sales force with inaccurate information and “one-liners to respond to customer concerns about COVID-19,” according to a release sent from the attorney general’s office.

Norwegian Cruise Line’s corporate headquarters is located in Miami.

According to the attorney general’s office, a whistleblower leaked emails to the media that show managers at MCL encouraged employees to downplay the risks associated with contracting COVID-19, using one-liners such as, “the coronavirus can only survive in cold temperatures, so the Caribbean is a fantastic choice for your next cruise,” and “the only thing you need to worry about for your cruise is do you have enough sunscreen.”

http://www.local10.com/news/local/2020/ ... 9-dangers/


Isn't Florida a state that has downplayed the pandemic all along ? The AG might soon have to defend the governor over similar things...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BravoOne
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:15 pm

 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:43 pm

Inclusive insurance covering epidemics, serious weather threats, civil disorder. Booking fees, ground transportation, getting home, medical bills

A plan (and insurance) for getting customers and crew off the ship and home if needed

Research and publication as to why the Diamond Princess was such a disaster, why the disease spread so much more than expected, and how this will be avoided in the future

Treaty agreements about repatriating crew and passengers when needed

Some people are rich enough that they could afford all of those extra expenses, but even they found this unavailable.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 4:40 pm

Norwegian Cruise Line may go out of business

New York (CNN Business) — Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings warned investors that it might be forced to go out of business.

In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission Tuesday, the company said its accounting firm has "substantial doubt" about Norwegian's ability to continue as a going concern because of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Companies with this kind of dire outlook are sometimes able to turn things around and survive, although it often takes a trip through bankruptcy to shed debt and other liabilities in order to do so.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/05/busi ... index.html
 
frmrCapCadet
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Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 6:28 pm

There weren't any responses to my post two weeks ago about what cruise lines may need to offer in order to sell tickets once again. My list likely was mostly right, and no one, including Norwegian knows what kind of insurance and repatriation procedures to offer customers at any price, let alone what people would be willing to pay. I could see Seattle/Alaska cruises offering that kind of assurance, but not until after a vaccine or very good treatment becomes available. Skipping Victoria BC there would only be one country involved, Seattle could probably be reached in two days from any Alaskan port. There would still be a quarantine camp needed. But for 4-6 ships??
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
ltbewr
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 7:04 pm

OA260 wrote:
Norwegian Cruise Line may go out of business
New York (CNN Business) — Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings warned investors that it might be forced to go out of business.
In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission Tuesday, the company said its accounting firm has "substantial doubt" about Norwegian's ability to continue as a going concern because of the Covid-19 pandemic.
Companies with this kind of dire outlook are sometimes able to turn things around and survive, although it often takes a trip through bankruptcy to shed debt and other liabilities in order to do so.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/05/busi ... index.html


So, what happens if NCL goes into Receivership, Bankruptcy, goes out of business ? Their ships will be near worthless, especially old and not so old ones, so are likely be broken up and scrapped in 3rd world countries. While their pollution, exploitation of workers, evasion of taxes and encouraging over-tourism at their stops are things many want to see gone, it also means many places will lose the tourism income they need to survive and less jobs for persons from poor countries.
 
Kent350787
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:19 am

OA260 wrote:
Coronavirus: Black box seized from Ruby Princess ship at centre of Australia outbreak

The ship is the third belonging to Princess Cruises to find itself at the centre of a virus outbreak.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus- ... k-11970925


More COVID-19 cases in Australia have resulted from "management" of the Ruby Princess passengers than any other single source. Not good for anyone when a Government sets up a Special Commission of Inquiry into handling of an individual vessel. https://www.rubyprincessinquiry.nsw.gov.au/

I reckon cruising in Australia is going to be screwed for quite a while on the back of the Ruby Princess debacle. The only cruise ships currently in Australia are locally flagged.
S340/J31/146-300/F27/F50/Nord 262/Q100/200/E195/733/734/738/744/762/763/77W/788/789/320/321/332/333/345/359
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:28 am

ltbewr wrote:
Their ships will be near worthless, especially old and not so old ones, so are likely be broken up and scrapped in 3rd world countries.

Says who? A few of their megaships are less than 5 years old so those could fetch a decent premium.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13097
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 1:38 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Their ships will be near worthless, especially old and not so old ones, so are likely be broken up and scrapped in 3rd world countries.

Says who? A few of their megaships are less than 5 years old so those could fetch a decent premium.


There's going to be cancellations for new builds, anything where the steel hasn't been cut is likely to be canned. A lot of older pre 2000 vessels will be laid up, with many going to the beaches to be scrapped. The outlook is not good for the cruise industry or the yards building vessels for it.
 
ltbewr
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 3:23 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Their ships will be near worthless, especially old and not so old ones, so are likely be broken up and scrapped in 3rd world countries.

Says who? A few of their megaships are less than 5 years old so those could fetch a decent premium.

There's going to be cancellations for new builds, anything where the steel hasn't been cut is likely to be canned. A lot of older pre 2000 vessels will be laid up, with many going to the beaches to be scrapped. The outlook is not good for the cruise industry or the yards building vessels for it.

For sure the oldest ones, especially if like 15 - 20 years old as not as fuel efficient, pollute more than newer ships, likely need refurb and heavy maintenance, remaining capacity can be served by fewer, newer, larger ships.
I also suspect some ports where others close, for example ending Bayonne (NJ) and shift more to NYC ports.
 
Kiwirob
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed May 06, 2020 5:50 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Says who? A few of their megaships are less than 5 years old so those could fetch a decent premium.

There's going to be cancellations for new builds, anything where the steel hasn't been cut is likely to be canned. A lot of older pre 2000 vessels will be laid up, with many going to the beaches to be scrapped. The outlook is not good for the cruise industry or the yards building vessels for it.

For sure the oldest ones, especially if like 15 - 20 years old as not as fuel efficient, pollute more than newer ships, likely need refurb and heavy maintenance, remaining capacity can be served by fewer, newer, larger ships.
I also suspect some ports where others close, for example ending Bayonne (NJ) and shift more to NYC ports.


I think the trend will move away from the mega ships, smaller vessels will be the name of the game in the future.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue May 19, 2020 11:38 pm

The SS Rotterdam managed to be converted into a hotel and museum ship for use in her namesake city in the 2000's despite the post 9/11 economic downturn, the Great Recession, delays, and huge cost overruns. The SS Rotterdam has become a successful hotel and tourist attraction for the City of Rotterdam despite nearly bankrupting the housing foundation that converted the ship. Hopefully, RXR Realty will be able to do the same with the SS United States despite the coronavirus pandemic and the recession that is currently taking place. I also hope the SS United States will become successful wherever she is berthed in spite of all this.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed May 20, 2020 1:07 pm

Royal Caribbean swings to wider-than-expected loss, but stock surges

Shares of Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. RCL, -3.54% surged 3.4% in premarket trading Wednesday, after the cruise operator swung to a first-quarter loss that was wider than expected as the COVID-19 pandemic led to cruise suspensions, but said 2021 bookings remained within historical ranges. The company reported a net loss of $1.44 billion, or $6.91 a share, after net income of $249.7 million, or $1.19 a share, in the year-ago period. Excluding non-recurring items, such as a $1.1 billion impairment charge, the company swung to an adjusted loss per share of $1.48 from earnings of $1.31 a share, missing the FactSet consensus for a loss of 34 cents. Revenue fell 17% to $2.03 billion, just below the FactSet consensus of $2.06 billion, as a miss in passenger ticket revenue offset a beat on onboard and other revenue. For the rest of 2020, the company said booking volumes are "meaningfully lower" than the same time last year at prices that are down in the low-single digit percentage range. For 2021, however, the booked position is within historical ranges on prices up mid-single digits compared with this year. The company indicated it had about $3.3 billion in liquidity as of May 19. The stock has plummeted 68.4% year to date through Tuesday, while the S&P 500 SPX, -1.04% has declined 9.5%.

www.marketwatch.com/story/royal-caribbe ... 2020-05-20
 
ArchGuy1
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 5:00 am

The planned launch for the Iona by P&O that was scheduled to occur in May 2020 has been delayed due to the coronavirus pandemic. Iona is the largest ship built for the UK market and the announcement was made as work slows down on the ship at the Meyer Werft shipyard in Germany, where the final stages of work are taking place. Iona was scheduled to depart on it's maiden voyage from Southampton on May 14 on a nine night cruise to the Norwegian fjords and it is not clear yet when the debut will take place. It is just one of a series of disruptions that have hit the global cruise industry due to the coronavirus.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5232/
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13097
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 4:56 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The SS Rotterdam managed to be converted into a hotel and museum ship for use in her namesake city in the 2000's despite the post 9/11 economic downturn, the Great Recession, delays, and huge cost overruns. The SS Rotterdam has become a successful hotel and tourist attraction for the City of Rotterdam despite nearly bankrupting the housing foundation that converted the ship. Hopefully, RXR Realty will be able to do the same with the SS United States despite the coronavirus pandemic and the recession that is currently taking place. I also hope the SS United States will become successful wherever she is berthed in spite of all this.


You need to stop this, SS Rotterdam retired from service in 2000, the new owner spent the following 8 years converting her to her new role, SS United States ended service in in 1969, she’s spent the last 51 years doing nothing, if anything was going to be done with the ship it would have happened by now, the best result for her would be sinking as an artificial reef or driven up a beach and wrecked.
 
ArchGuy1
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 5:03 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The SS Rotterdam managed to be converted into a hotel and museum ship for use in her namesake city in the 2000's despite the post 9/11 economic downturn, the Great Recession, delays, and huge cost overruns. The SS Rotterdam has become a successful hotel and tourist attraction for the City of Rotterdam despite nearly bankrupting the housing foundation that converted the ship. Hopefully, RXR Realty will be able to do the same with the SS United States despite the coronavirus pandemic and the recession that is currently taking place. I also hope the SS United States will become successful wherever she is berthed in spite of all this.


You need to stop this, SS Rotterdam retired from service in 2000, the new owner spent the following 8 years converting her to her new role, SS United States ended service in in 1969, she’s spent the last 51 years doing nothing, if anything was going to be done with the ship it would have happened by now, the best result for her would be sinking as an artificial reef or driven up a beach and wrecked.

The SS Rotterdam was laid up in Freeport, Bahamas until 2004 and conversion work took from 2004 until 2009.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1120
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 6:27 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The SS Rotterdam managed to be converted into a hotel and museum ship for use in her namesake city in the 2000's despite the post 9/11 economic downturn, the Great Recession, delays, and huge cost overruns. The SS Rotterdam has become a successful hotel and tourist attraction for the City of Rotterdam despite nearly bankrupting the housing foundation that converted the ship. Hopefully, RXR Realty will be able to do the same with the SS United States despite the coronavirus pandemic and the recession that is currently taking place. I also hope the SS United States will become successful wherever she is berthed in spite of all this.


You need to stop this, SS Rotterdam retired from service in 2000, the new owner spent the following 8 years converting her to her new role, SS United States ended service in in 1969, she’s spent the last 51 years doing nothing, if anything was going to be done with the ship it would have happened by now, the best result for her would be sinking as an artificial reef or driven up a beach and wrecked.


It’s an absolutely massive difference. The amount of work it would take to get United States into any sort of shape to become a functioning business would be enormous and extremely impractical.

I'd love to see the history of the late ocean liners live on through the ships themselves, but it's not quite like saving an airplane. A plane you can park in a building and it'll mostly stay that way. (Discounting rent, etc etc, I'm simplifying) But a small boat is a headache to maintain, let alone a liner.

Sink her as a reef
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 10:53 pm

FGITD wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The SS Rotterdam managed to be converted into a hotel and museum ship for use in her namesake city in the 2000's despite the post 9/11 economic downturn, the Great Recession, delays, and huge cost overruns. The SS Rotterdam has become a successful hotel and tourist attraction for the City of Rotterdam despite nearly bankrupting the housing foundation that converted the ship. Hopefully, RXR Realty will be able to do the same with the SS United States despite the coronavirus pandemic and the recession that is currently taking place. I also hope the SS United States will become successful wherever she is berthed in spite of all this.


You need to stop this, SS Rotterdam retired from service in 2000, the new owner spent the following 8 years converting her to her new role, SS United States ended service in in 1969, she’s spent the last 51 years doing nothing, if anything was going to be done with the ship it would have happened by now, the best result for her would be sinking as an artificial reef or driven up a beach and wrecked.


It’s an absolutely massive difference. The amount of work it would take to get United States into any sort of shape to become a functioning business would be enormous and extremely impractical.

I'd love to see the history of the late ocean liners live on through the ships themselves, but it's not quite like saving an airplane. A plane you can park in a building and it'll mostly stay that way. (Discounting rent, etc etc, I'm simplifying) But a small boat is a headache to maintain, let alone a liner.

Sink her as a reef

What is it like maintaining the Queen Mary in Long Beach, California considering her size and is it a pain to maintain that ship.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1120
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 11:43 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

You need to stop this, SS Rotterdam retired from service in 2000, the new owner spent the following 8 years converting her to her new role, SS United States ended service in in 1969, she’s spent the last 51 years doing nothing, if anything was going to be done with the ship it would have happened by now, the best result for her would be sinking as an artificial reef or driven up a beach and wrecked.


It’s an absolutely massive difference. The amount of work it would take to get United States into any sort of shape to become a functioning business would be enormous and extremely impractical.

I'd love to see the history of the late ocean liners live on through the ships themselves, but it's not quite like saving an airplane. A plane you can park in a building and it'll mostly stay that way. (Discounting rent, etc etc, I'm simplifying) But a small boat is a headache to maintain, let alone a liner.

Sink her as a reef

What is it like maintaining the Queen Mary in Long Beach, California considering her size and is it a pain to maintain that ship.


I have no idea. However the conversion took place almost immediately after she was withdrawn from service, and was so thorough that Queen Mary was declared to be a building rather than a ship. Also they found enormous amounts of the ship that were in extremely rough shape. And that was literally immediately after she was a functioning ship. The United States would probably disintegrate if they tried to do the major work in her that the Queen Mary required
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun May 24, 2020 11:49 pm

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:

It’s an absolutely massive difference. The amount of work it would take to get United States into any sort of shape to become a functioning business would be enormous and extremely impractical.

I'd love to see the history of the late ocean liners live on through the ships themselves, but it's not quite like saving an airplane. A plane you can park in a building and it'll mostly stay that way. (Discounting rent, etc etc, I'm simplifying) But a small boat is a headache to maintain, let alone a liner.

Sink her as a reef

What is it like maintaining the Queen Mary in Long Beach, California considering her size and is it a pain to maintain that ship.


I have no idea. However the conversion took place almost immediately after she was withdrawn from service, and was so thorough that Queen Mary was declared to be a building rather than a ship. Also they found enormous amounts of the ship that were in extremely rough shape. And that was literally immediately after she was a functioning ship. The United States would probably disintegrate if they tried to do the major work in her that the Queen Mary required

The SS United States is actually in better shape structurally than the Queen Mary as the bulkheads and engine are still intact. The hull retains 92 percent of it's original thickness.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10146
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 3:55 am

ltbewr wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Says who? A few of their megaships are less than 5 years old so those could fetch a decent premium.


There's going to be cancellations for new builds, anything where the steel hasn't been cut is likely to be canned. A lot of older pre 2000 vessels will be laid up, with many going to the beaches to be scrapped. The outlook is not good for the cruise industry or the yards building vessels for it.

For sure the oldest ones, especially if like 15 - 20 years old as not as fuel efficient, pollute more than newer ships, likely need refurb and heavy maintenance, remaining capacity can be served by fewer, newer, larger ships.

I also suspect some ports where others close, for example ending Bayonne (NJ) and shift more to NYC ports.



The news out of Venice on ending excessive tourists overloading the city point to a potential change in some areas of cruising - with smaller ships being the new direction. Our ship out of Venice was the Splendour of the Seas - under 2,000 pax. That might well work for a "new Venice and it was actually a pretty nice cruise, After one deployment in a destroyer (DDG 21) I was pretty comfortable on that smaller ship. Actually the BEST part of the ship was having the Windjammer Cafe at the front of the ship. At sea you could get some coffee (and maybe a snack) and sit at a table looking out the front "windows" to watch where you are going.

Comparing to the airlines, it appears that the A380 is no loner the best choice now that the 787-X is available. Might be the same with cruise liners. I know I have no desire to take a giant sized ship for a relaxing cruise.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13097
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 5:00 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The SS Rotterdam managed to be converted into a hotel and museum ship for use in her namesake city in the 2000's despite the post 9/11 economic downturn, the Great Recession, delays, and huge cost overruns. The SS Rotterdam has become a successful hotel and tourist attraction for the City of Rotterdam despite nearly bankrupting the housing foundation that converted the ship. Hopefully, RXR Realty will be able to do the same with the SS United States despite the coronavirus pandemic and the recession that is currently taking place. I also hope the SS United States will become successful wherever she is berthed in spite of all this.


You need to stop this, SS Rotterdam retired from service in 2000, the new owner spent the following 8 years converting her to her new role, SS United States ended service in in 1969, she’s spent the last 51 years doing nothing, if anything was going to be done with the ship it would have happened by now, the best result for her would be sinking as an artificial reef or driven up a beach and wrecked.

The SS Rotterdam was laid up in Freeport, Bahamas until 2004 and conversion work took from 2004 until 2009.


In those 4 years being laid up she was being maintained.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
What is it like maintaining the Queen Mary in Long Beach, California considering her size and is it a pain to maintain that ship.


I have no idea. However the conversion took place almost immediately after she was withdrawn from service, and was so thorough that Queen Mary was declared to be a building rather than a ship. Also they found enormous amounts of the ship that were in extremely rough shape. And that was literally immediately after she was a functioning ship. The United States would probably disintegrate if they tried to do the major work in her that the Queen Mary required

The SS United States is actually in better shape structurally than the Queen Mary as the bulkheads and engine are still intact. The hull retains 92 percent of it's original thickness.


Have you seen pictures of the engine room? She's gone 51 years without having her engine maintained, even when there were plans to put her back into service the first big job was installing modern power plants, those old engine aren't going to fire ever again. She's a massive waste of money, beside I doubt there are many people who know know about her, and the people who did sail on her are all dying off, she's irrelevant to the vast majority of US citizens.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 5:29 am

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

You need to stop this, SS Rotterdam retired from service in 2000, the new owner spent the following 8 years converting her to her new role, SS United States ended service in in 1969, she’s spent the last 51 years doing nothing, if anything was going to be done with the ship it would have happened by now, the best result for her would be sinking as an artificial reef or driven up a beach and wrecked.

The SS Rotterdam was laid up in Freeport, Bahamas until 2004 and conversion work took from 2004 until 2009.


In those 4 years being laid up she was being maintained.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:

I have no idea. However the conversion took place almost immediately after she was withdrawn from service, and was so thorough that Queen Mary was declared to be a building rather than a ship. Also they found enormous amounts of the ship that were in extremely rough shape. And that was literally immediately after she was a functioning ship. The United States would probably disintegrate if they tried to do the major work in her that the Queen Mary required

The SS United States is actually in better shape structurally than the Queen Mary as the bulkheads and engine are still intact. The hull retains 92 percent of it's original thickness.


Have you seen pictures of the engine room? She's gone 51 years without having her engine maintained, even when there were plans to put her back into service the first big job was installing modern power plants, those old engine aren't going to fire ever again. She's a massive waste of money, beside I doubt there are many people who know know about her, and the people who did sail on her are all dying off, she's irrelevant to the vast majority of US citizens.

Is the SS Rotterdam known by the majority of the people in the Netherlands.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 13097
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 10:04 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The SS Rotterdam was laid up in Freeport, Bahamas until 2004 and conversion work took from 2004 until 2009.


In those 4 years being laid up she was being maintained.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The SS United States is actually in better shape structurally than the Queen Mary as the bulkheads and engine are still intact. The hull retains 92 percent of it's original thickness.


Have you seen pictures of the engine room? She's gone 51 years without having her engine maintained, even when there were plans to put her back into service the first big job was installing modern power plants, those old engine aren't going to fire ever again. She's a massive waste of money, beside I doubt there are many people who know know about her, and the people who did sail on her are all dying off, she's irrelevant to the vast majority of US citizens.


Is the SS Rotterdam known by the majority of the people in the Netherlands.


At a guess I'd say yes, the Netherlands is much smaller country, she's also moored in a prominent and visible location. As a vessel I'd say she is more significant that SS United States, she was one of the first passenger vessels built with the now standard 2/3s aft engine location, she was also designed from the outset as a liner/cruise vessel and she had a significantly longer service life.
 
VSMUT
Posts: 4710
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:40 am

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 10:05 am

What's the biggest passenger ship ever scrapped? Costa Concordia?
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2299
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 10:45 am

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:

It’s an absolutely massive difference. The amount of work it would take to get United States into any sort of shape to become a functioning business would be enormous and extremely impractical.

I'd love to see the history of the late ocean liners live on through the ships themselves, but it's not quite like saving an airplane. A plane you can park in a building and it'll mostly stay that way. (Discounting rent, etc etc, I'm simplifying) But a small boat is a headache to maintain, let alone a liner.

Sink her as a reef

What is it like maintaining the Queen Mary in Long Beach, California considering her size and is it a pain to maintain that ship.


I have no idea. However the conversion took place almost immediately after she was withdrawn from service, and was so thorough that Queen Mary was declared to be a building rather than a ship. Also they found enormous amounts of the ship that were in extremely rough shape. And that was literally immediately after she was a functioning ship. The United States would probably disintegrate if they tried to do the major work in her that the Queen Mary required


I spent 2 nights on the Queen Mary back in Feb 2014. Big ship, possibly 2 dozen guest cars in the really big parking lot. It felt like the Titanic, the lounges and bars are very nice looking and fun to read the history about, but cra**y service and expensive. Maybe the back half of the ship on two decks were open and only rooms with port holes. In the 2 days there going in and out, saw other guests in the lobby (just visitors to the ship or staying I do not know) but none in the hallways going to the rooms.

Boats are holes in the water that require pouring lots of money down. The Queen Mary is a very big hole, needs lots of money. I really doubt revenues cover even half of the maintenance that is required, much less desired.

I live 20 minutes from the Turner Joy museum boat in Bremerton, it certainly does not cover the maintenance.
 
ArchGuy1
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon May 25, 2020 5:32 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
What is it like maintaining the Queen Mary in Long Beach, California considering her size and is it a pain to maintain that ship.


I have no idea. However the conversion took place almost immediately after she was withdrawn from service, and was so thorough that Queen Mary was declared to be a building rather than a ship. Also they found enormous amounts of the ship that were in extremely rough shape. And that was literally immediately after she was a functioning ship. The United States would probably disintegrate if they tried to do the major work in her that the Queen Mary required


I spent 2 nights on the Queen Mary back in Feb 2014. Big ship, possibly 2 dozen guest cars in the really big parking lot. It felt like the Titanic, the lounges and bars are very nice looking and fun to read the history about, but cra**y service and expensive. Maybe the back half of the ship on two decks were open and only rooms with port holes. In the 2 days there going in and out, saw other guests in the lobby (just visitors to the ship or staying I do not know) but none in the hallways going to the rooms.

Boats are holes in the water that require pouring lots of money down. The Queen Mary is a very big hole, needs lots of money. I really doubt revenues cover even half of the maintenance that is required, much less desired.

I live 20 minutes from the Turner Joy museum boat in Bremerton, it certainly does not cover the maintenance.

How are things going on the SS Rotterdam and QE2 by comparison.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 2:06 pm

Ken777 wrote:
I know I have no desire to take a giant sized ship for a relaxing cruise.

Megaships have one of two goals which they can meet well:
1. Transport thousand of people
2. Offer hundreds of activities

If the cruise is a short one (7-day cruise), its potential is wasted. All it's doing is saving the company money; whereas you'd need probably 2-3 small ships to carry thousands of passengers at once, these megaships do it in one sitting. If the cruise is a long one (and there's a lot of time at sea, say 3 days at a minimum), the amenities are its jewel. Megaships on a 7 day Caribbean cruise with a different port every day and only one day at sea? That's not worth it.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 2:46 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The planned launch for the Iona by P&O that was scheduled to occur in May 2020 has been delayed due to the coronavirus pandemic. Iona is the largest ship built for the UK market and the announcement was made as work slows down on the ship at the Meyer Werft shipyard in Germany, where the final stages of work are taking place. Iona was scheduled to depart on it's maiden voyage from Southampton on May 14 on a nine night cruise to the Norwegian fjords and it is not clear yet when the debut will take place. It is just one of a series of disruptions that have hit the global cruise industry due to the coronavirus.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5232/


Shortly before the lockdown I got to visit the ship yard which was quite impressive. It was something I had wanted to do for a while. Back then it was pretty much expected that IONA would be delayed.

A few pics I took on my visit :



Image

.

Royal Caribbean Odyssey of the Seas

Image

.

Saga Spirit of Adventure

Image

.

Image

.


P&O IONA

Image

.

Image

.

Image
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue May 26, 2020 4:40 pm

OA260 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The planned launch for the Iona by P&O that was scheduled to occur in May 2020 has been delayed due to the coronavirus pandemic. Iona is the largest ship built for the UK market and the announcement was made as work slows down on the ship at the Meyer Werft shipyard in Germany, where the final stages of work are taking place. Iona was scheduled to depart on it's maiden voyage from Southampton on May 14 on a nine night cruise to the Norwegian fjords and it is not clear yet when the debut will take place. It is just one of a series of disruptions that have hit the global cruise industry due to the coronavirus.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5232/


Shortly before the lockdown I got to visit the ship yard which was quite impressive. It was something I had wanted to do for a while. Back then it was pretty much expected that IONA would be delayed.

A few pics I took on my visit :



Image

.

Royal Caribbean Odyssey of the Seas

Image

.

Saga Spirit of Adventure

Image

.

Image

.


P&O IONA

Image

.

Image

.

Image

Were you planning on attending the christening ceremony for the Iona.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 1:47 am

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

In those 4 years being laid up she was being maintained.



Have you seen pictures of the engine room? She's gone 51 years without having her engine maintained, even when there were plans to put her back into service the first big job was installing modern power plants, those old engine aren't going to fire ever again. She's a massive waste of money, beside I doubt there are many people who know know about her, and the people who did sail on her are all dying off, she's irrelevant to the vast majority of US citizens.


Is the SS Rotterdam known by the majority of the people in the Netherlands.


At a guess I'd say yes, the Netherlands is much smaller country, she's also moored in a prominent and visible location. As a vessel I'd say she is more significant that SS United States, she was one of the first passenger vessels built with the now standard 2/3s aft engine location, she was also designed from the outset as a liner/cruise vessel and she had a significantly longer service life.

The SS Rotterdam was the first ocean liner with the particular style of funnel she has.
 
Ken777
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Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 5:26 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
I know I have no desire to take a giant sized ship for a relaxing cruise.

Megaships have one of two goals which they can meet well:
1. Transport thousand of people
2. Offer hundreds of activities

If the cruise is a short one (7-day cruise), its potential is wasted. All it's doing is saving the company money; whereas you'd need probably 2-3 small ships to carry thousands of passengers at once, these megaships do it in one sitting. If the cruise is a long one (and there's a lot of time at sea, say 3 days at a minimum), the amenities are its jewel. Megaships on a 7 day Caribbean cruise with a different port every day and only one day at sea? That's not worth it.


The issues I'm looking at are focused on the problems, just like problems with jumbo planes like the A380. Venice is the first major example of the population wanting to ban maga ships and a smaller ship with under 2K pax MAX will be far more attractive to those cities joining the shift to down size.

While I might like to fly I an A380 one time I have no desire to cruise on a mega ship. But then I'm now 75 and newly diagnosed with cancer # 5 and will focus on ships that are more comfortable to sail on. At my age we quickly learn what is important in ship design.
 
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OA260
Posts: 24621
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 4:35 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The planned launch for the Iona by P&O that was scheduled to occur in May 2020 has been delayed due to the coronavirus pandemic. Iona is the largest ship built for the UK market and the announcement was made as work slows down on the ship at the Meyer Werft shipyard in Germany, where the final stages of work are taking place. Iona was scheduled to depart on it's maiden voyage from Southampton on May 14 on a nine night cruise to the Norwegian fjords and it is not clear yet when the debut will take place. It is just one of a series of disruptions that have hit the global cruise industry due to the coronavirus.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5232/


Shortly before the lockdown I got to visit the ship yard which was quite impressive. It was something I had wanted to do for a while. Back then it was pretty much expected that IONA would be delayed.

A few pics I took on my visit :



Image

.

Royal Caribbean Odyssey of the Seas

Image

.

Saga Spirit of Adventure

Image

.

Image

.


P&O IONA

Image

.

Image

.

Image

Were you planning on attending the christening ceremony for the Iona.


Yes I normally would go but doubt it for this time as its due to be delivered mid June and it will be a small low key hand over with all the restrictions. I have heard there maybe some events planned for September of October .
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1616
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu May 28, 2020 4:58 pm

The delivery for the Enchanted Princess has also been delayed due to the Fincantieri shipyard in Monfalcone, Italy being closed by COVID-19 and this is because of a COVID-19 lockdown in Italy that the government had in place. A new delivery date has not been announced yet. Furthermore, the naming ceremony that was scheduled for June 30, 2020 has been cancelled and inaugural activities were under review. Enchanted Princess was originally scheduled to debut in Rome on June 19 for a 9 day Mediterranean cruise. It is just an example of how the global cruise industry has been affected by COVID-19 and something that can hopefully come to an end soon.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.travel ... livery.amp
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:17 am

MORE TRAVEL
CHOPPY WATERS P&O Cruises extends sailing suspension until at least October over coronavirus

P&O Cruises has extended its sailing suspension for another four months due to the coronavirus crisis.

The company said it is "working in close co-ordination with all relevant public health bodies to approve further enhancement of the company's already stringent health and safety protocols".

www.thesun.ie/travel/5495393/po-cruises ... liday/amp/
 
IH8BY
Posts: 779
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:39 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:45 pm

Ken777 wrote:
While I might like to fly I an A380 one time I have no desire to cruise on a mega ship. But then I'm now 75 and newly diagnosed with cancer # 5 and will focus on ships that are more comfortable to sail on. At my age we quickly learn what is important in ship design.


I've done only a few cruises, all three on very large ships. I'd definitely like to try a smaller ship at some point - I looked at some itineraries on Pacific Princess as it's one of relatively few smaller ship experiences from a mainstream line. It was interesting comparing my experiences between Freedom of the Seas (Royal Caribbean, late 2015) and Regal Princess (late 2019). Two ships of reasonably similar size and double occupancy passenger capacity, two very different cruises - I wonder whether the line governs the cruise experience more than the size of ship (ignoring boutique or super-premium ships).

Freedom of the Seas always felt busy. Often this was a good thing - public spaces were vibrant and buzzing, people actually went to events, and there was loads to do. Much of the passenger flow was channeled through the Royal Promenade so you were always aware of it being a busy ship. On the other hand, lines were the norm, places to sit weren't always available and it was practically impossible to find somewhere quiet.

Regal Princess was quite the opposite. By a few days in, my partner and I had figured the ship must only be half full, because there was loads of space; we were surprised when the captain said it was at more or less full double occupancy. Clearly either the ship was really well designed to absorb large numbers of passengers, or Princess passengers never leave their cabins! Probably it's a bit of each! A beautiful ship, and the cruise was relaxing, which is what we wanted, but if you were looking for thrills it wouldn't satisfy.
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
 
jetwet1
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:42 am

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:03 pm

I have said the same thing a few times on here, Princess did an amazing job with the Royal/Regal/Enchanted, definitely over favorite big ships.

The whole industry owes a lot to Renaissance Cruises, their R ships have gone on to have very successful second lives with other lines.
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:34 pm

NCL are the first major cruise line to release specific details of the plans to enhance cleaning and health protocols to bring about a safe and sustained return.

Oceania and Regent aren't shouting about it in the same way but seems as if they're following similar lines, as is to be expected.

https://www.ncl.com/uk/en/why-cruise-no ... confidence

Interesting times - safety is likely to be a feature of marketing in the short to mid-term, something that has not been the case before. I suspect the majors will start to compete as to just how much they will be doing to ensure (as far as possible) safety and increase consumer confidence.
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:00 pm

bananaboy wrote:
NCL are the first major cruise line to release specific details of the plans to enhance cleaning and health protocols to bring about a safe and sustained return.

Oceania and Regent aren't shouting about it in the same way but seems as if they're following similar lines, as is to be expected.

https://www.ncl.com/uk/en/why-cruise-no ... confidence

Interesting times - safety is likely to be a feature of marketing in the short to mid-term, something that has not been the case before. I suspect the majors will start to compete as to just how much they will be doing to ensure (as far as possible) safety and increase consumer confidence.


To be honest I have seen various “marketing” drop into my inbox from different lines. Various videos and live broadcasts from various CEO’s etc ... NCL are just one which I have seen. Its a shame that at the start of all this NCL made some mistakes. Maybe thats why they are trying to be so careful now!
 
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DL717
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:47 pm

Disney just cancelled everything through July and some into September. I think that’s Alaska.

https://disneycruise.disney.go.com/gues ... /advisory/

Said to be parking all of them. Three are at Canaveral. Wonder headed south and is currently south of Acapulco. Probably on it’s way to the Canal.
Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
ArchGuy1
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Quantum of the Seas

Sat Jun 06, 2020 12:24 am

What are your thoughts about the Quantum of the Seas? I find the ship to be a marvel of maritime engineering and very innovative. For example, the ship has a pod that is movable and can be extended outward, giving passengers impressive views of the surrounding area, both at sea and on land.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1306731&p=18306795&hilit=Quantum+of+the+seas#p18306795
 
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Dano1977
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:43 pm

Well after our 12 night April 2020 cruise was cancelled due to Coronavirus.

We have bitten the bullet and booked another cruise for 2021.

14 Night cruise on the new P&O Ship Iona.

Southampton
Maderia
La Palma
Tenerife
Lanzarote
Cadiz
Lisbon
Southampton

Managed to get an upgraded cabin and extra £50pp on board spend all within our P&O Future Cruise Credit scheme from our cancelled cruise.
The average EU official - he has the organising ability of the Italians, the flexibility of the Germans and the modesty of the French. And that's topped up by the imagination of the Belgians, the generosity of the Dutch.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:03 pm

Dano1977 wrote:
Well after our 12 night April 2020 cruise was cancelled due to Coronavirus.

We have bitten the bullet and booked another cruise for 2021.

14 Night cruise on the new P&O Ship Iona.

Southampton
Maderia
La Palma
Tenerife
Lanzarote
Cadiz
Lisbon
Southampton

Managed to get an upgraded cabin and extra £50pp on board spend all within our P&O Future Cruise Credit scheme from our cancelled cruise.


Great choice . Silver lining and all that . Will be great to see Iona . Nice itinerary too. I think P&O/ Cunard have been pretty good in all this compared to some. Cunard further extended the pause until 1/11 and 23/11 for Queen Elizabeth. I have a cruise booked for a few days after the current pause but hoping and expecting it to be cancelled so will most likely be in a similar position to you .
 
jetwet1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:08 pm

We were booked on Celebrity for a 10 day cruise, we cancelled, refunds issued within 24 hours.

As you said, some lines are dealing with this better than other, over on another board Ponant/ Paul Gauguin is getting eviscerated for their behavior, not honoring contracts, refusing refunds for cruises they cancel, not cancelling cruises until the morning of departure, then refusing to issue refunds.

For a premium line they are really managing to push their passengers into the welcome arms of other lines for future cruises, the wife and I were going to book 10 cabins on the PG to celebrate our 20th anniversary with friends and family, after seeing the way Ponant is treating it's passengers, there is zero chance we will be on the PG.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:59 pm

NCL is offering all the Free at Sea promos even for inside cabins. I'm booked for NZ-AUS cruise in February (though I think that one's gonna be canceled just because the guy who invited me and I are not speaking as much anymore). I also have Epic from San Juan to Barcelona in April so I'll wait to see what comes out. The Epic cruise now has double points and 2 Free at Sea promos.

I'm hoping I get a bonus next year, but I'm not too optimistic given how bad companies are doing this year.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:59 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
As you said, some lines are dealing with this better than other


You are right about some of the so called luxury brands some of them have been appalling even taking into account the unprecedented nature of the crisis. That goes for lots of travel companies. 4*-5* airlines have been dire where ones you would not expect to have shined.

I think people will remember who acted responsibly and that goes from the start of the crisis when certain cruise companies were downplaying COVID-19 and criminal charges could follow to those that allowed passengers to die onboard. Some hard questions will need to be answered. There is no doubt this could sink some lines !
 
jetwet1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:15 am

OA260 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
As you said, some lines are dealing with this better than other


You are right about some of the so called luxury brands some of them have been appalling even taking into account the unprecedented nature of the crisis. That goes for lots of travel companies. 4*-5* airlines have been dire where ones you would not expect to have shined.

I think people will remember who acted responsibly and that goes from the start of the crisis when certain cruise companies were downplaying COVID-19 and criminal charges could follow to those that allowed passengers to die onboard. Some hard questions will need to be answered. There is no doubt this could sink some lines !


I have to be honest here, I have not had issues with any travel companies refunding me during this, maybe because of my annual spend (thank you work), but even Easyjet, a company I use once a decade issued a refund in short order.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:19 am

OA260 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
As you said, some lines are dealing with this better than other


You are right about some of the so called luxury brands some of them have been appalling even taking into account the unprecedented nature of the crisis. That goes for lots of travel companies. 4*-5* airlines have been dire where ones you would not expect to have shined.

I think people will remember who acted responsibly and that goes from the start of the crisis when certain cruise companies were downplaying COVID-19 and criminal charges could follow to those that allowed passengers to die onboard. Some hard questions will need to be answered. There is no doubt this could sink some lines !

Cunard acted responsibly, while Princess had a number of ships becoming hotspots, including the Diamond Princess.
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