Moderators: richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
FGITD
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:44 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Queen Mary is also a museum ship and tourist attraction and is Long Beach's version of the Empire State Building, Eiffel Tower, Hollywood Sign, Space Needle, or Statue of Liberty.


The main difference being that those attractions actually make money. Except maybe the Hollywood sign, though I'd imagine it's maintenance cost is a bit more feasible.

Simple fact is ocean liners were not built to last forever. Sure, they can dump $300 million into fixing it. But what will they do in another 20, maybe 30 years, when it needs another $100 million? Historic landmark or not, sooner or later it'll have to go

The USS Constitution has lasted over 200 years and is doing well in Boston. Also, do warships like the USS Lexington, USS Missouri, and USS Midway actually make money?


The constitution is a bit of a ship of thesus situation. I believe she's currently something around 15% original. Based on her repair schedule, odds are most of Constitution is newer than the Queen Mary. She's also still crewed and maintained by the navy.

The carriers and battleships probably do make money because they don't need to cater to overnight guests. It's a lot easier to charge admission and have people mill around for an hour or two
 
johns624
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:54 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Was the Queen Mary very popular in the 1970's and 1980's though?
I don't know and what happened 40-50 years ago has no bearing on her today. Think of all the famous Las Vegas casinos from 50 years. Most of them are gone.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:54 pm

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:

The main difference being that those attractions actually make money. Except maybe the Hollywood sign, though I'd imagine it's maintenance cost is a bit more feasible.

Simple fact is ocean liners were not built to last forever. Sure, they can dump $300 million into fixing it. But what will they do in another 20, maybe 30 years, when it needs another $100 million? Historic landmark or not, sooner or later it'll have to go

The USS Constitution has lasted over 200 years and is doing well in Boston. Also, do warships like the USS Lexington, USS Missouri, and USS Midway actually make money?


The constitution is a bit of a ship of thesus situation. I believe she's currently something around 15% original. Based on her repair schedule, odds are most of Constitution is newer than the Queen Mary. She's also still crewed and maintained by the navy.

The carriers and battleships probably do make money because they don't need to cater to overnight guests. It's a lot easier to charge admission and have people mill around for an hour or two

Does the SS Rotterdam actually make money, because I heard somewhere that it does.
 
IH8BY
Posts: 772
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:39 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:00 pm

OA260 wrote:
‪Keel has been laid for the first LNG-powered MSC Cruises ship, MSC World Europa, at the Chantiers de l’Atlantique shipyard in Saint-Nazaire, France. The 200,000-plus GRT ship is scheduled to enter service in 2022.‬


I'm still not entirely sold on the vertical bow, streamlined far-forward superstructure look. I was really excited when I saw early pictures of Scarlet Lady but all the pictures I've seen of it in the metal seem to make it look a bit bulbous and almost overbearing because there's so much so far forward.

LNG is interesting though and it's clear we're going to see more and more of this on large passenger ships and ferries very soon. Possibly easier on ferries where daily docking at one or two familiar ports is a given and they can count on the infrastructure without having to carry large amounts of fuel on board.

If the cruise lines want to avoid getting restricted from ports because of local pollution, they're going to have to invest in shore-side power capability too (and use it...). They have been getting too easy a ride on this but I think the tide is turning and they need to do their bit (and not just force the local authorities to fund it).
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
 
IH8BY
Posts: 772
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:39 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 pm

OA260 wrote:
Two of the Pullmantur ships are currently in Naples being stripped out ready for potential scrapping. It doesnt look good for Pullmantur’s future either . Seems the brand will be gone.


Apparently Monarch has left Naples and is now on its way to Aliaga (town in Turkey with large ship dismantling operations) and Sovereign is due to leave for there once it's finished being processed in Naples. Indication from an Italian-based site I read just now suggests that Horizon will follow them.

I suppose it doesn't rule out the Pullmantur Cruises brand being retained as a travel agency and then reactivated if/when times get better with an older ship from the Royal Caribbean fleet.
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:49 pm

I have also heard reports that the Sovereign of the Seas and Monarch of the Seas are returning to the Royal Caribbean International fleet.
https://www.cruisehive.com/pullmantur-s ... bean/40392
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 24152
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:56 pm

A friend of mine had their sailing cancelled on Odyssey of the Seas in November and has been told it wont now debut until April 2021
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:49 am

IH8BY wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The delivery for the Spirit of Adventure has been delayed and the ship will not debut in August as originally planned. This is due to social distancing measures and reduced workers capacity at the Meyer-Werfit Shipyard in Germany that was imposed by COVID-19. Just the latest in a series of delays for new cruise ships.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/cruisearab ... layed/amp/

What difference does it make? There aren't any cruises, anyway.


Saga are probably relieved not to have an expensive asset that they can't use arriving on their books right now! Given their target market is exclusively older/retired passengers (statistically more at risk from COVID-19) I suspect that their passengers won't be in a hurry to get back on board, and shifting their market would be difficult when the Saga brand is fundamentally associated with the retired generation (shame, the ships themselves look lovely).

The Spirit of Adventure is now due to enter service in November and will include all the amenities that the Spirit of Discovery has.
https://www.worldofcruising.co.uk/spiri ... -november/
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:33 am

In the 1990's, Cunard proposed a dual purpose ocean liner/cruise ship that would have reached 40 knots and replaced QE2 on the transatlantic run. It would have taken the Blue Ribbon from the SS United States and would have become an iconic peice of maritime history. What are your thoughts on this proposal?
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1313611&p=18552891&hilit=Glass+floor#p18552891
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 24152
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:17 am

Sad to see hundreds of staff let go by Cunard , P&O and Princess in the UK at Southampton yesterday. Just another example of the crisis the industry finds itself in .
 
johns624
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:04 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
In the 1990's, Cunard proposed a dual purpose ocean liner/cruise ship that would have reached 40 knots and replaced QE2 on the transatlantic run. It would have taken the Blue Ribbon from the SS United States and would have become an iconic peice of maritime history. What are your thoughts on this proposal?
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1313611&p=18552891&hilit=Glass+floor#p18552891
How do you know it would have been iconic?
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:24 pm

I feel that the Marco Polo should be preserved as a hotel and museum ship rather than scrapped. The ship is significant because it is the last Ivan Franko class ship in existence, last Soviet ocean liner in existence, one of the last transatlantic ocean liners in service, has sleek classic lines, and is the right size to become a dockside attraction. Good places to preserve the ship include St. Petersburg, Rostock, Tilbury, Murmansk, Montreal, and Quebec City.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8242
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:39 pm

johns624 wrote:
How do you know it would have been iconic?

Because he's like the cruise ship ocean liner god...what he says will be so.

Hence why all those ships need to be preserved: they'll become money makers because he says so. :duck: :duck:
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:20 pm

The Valliant Lady, which is the second ship for Virgin Viyages was floated out at Fincantieri shipyard in Italy a couple weeks ago and will debut with seven night itineraries out of Barcelona starting in May 2021. Hopeful news during the COVID-19 pandemic, especially with the launch of the Scarlet Lady being delayed.
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... water.html
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 24152
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:58 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Valliant Lady, which is the second ship for Virgin Viyages was floated out at Fincantieri shipyard in Italy a couple weeks ago and will debut with seven night itineraries out of Barcelona starting in May 2021. Hopeful news during the COVID-19 pandemic, especially with the launch of the Scarlet Lady being delayed.
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... water.html


Very tempted to book it there are some amazing deals to be had . I was very impressed when I got onboard Scarlet back in February .
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:00 pm

OA260 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Valliant Lady, which is the second ship for Virgin Viyages was floated out at Fincantieri shipyard in Italy a couple weeks ago and will debut with seven night itineraries out of Barcelona starting in May 2021. Hopeful news during the COVID-19 pandemic, especially with the launch of the Scarlet Lady being delayed.
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... water.html


Very tempted to book it there are some amazing deals to be had . I was very impressed when I got onboard Scarlet back in February .

The Scarlet Lady looks very sleek and space age and much better than many of the floating apartment block condos with companies like Norwegian.
Last edited by ArchGuy1 on Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 12789
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:16 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
IH8BY wrote:
I suspect it's something to do with a niche.

But ship building isn't like Boeing and Airbus where you can only buy what's currently in production. I think these cruise lines would be a bit more appealing if they had brand new ships. They don't have to be megaships like RCCL has, but something sized like Carnival's Fantasy class or RCCL's Vision class ships. Smaller ships but brand new, a 2.0 over the ones currently sailing. An opportunity for a new layout instead of retrofitting and refurbishing.

Granted, some people may not care and that's fine. I'm just saying that, if it were me, I'd much rather sail on a newer ship than one that made its debut in the late 80s to early 90s.


There’s the Viking Line vessels all 47,800 tonnes, small but new and there will be 16 of them in the class.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:25 pm

A couple weeks ago, the Norwegian cruise line Hurtigruten resumed costal cruise service with a coastal vouyage from Bergen to Kirkenes with the 628 passenger Finnmarken and 200 Norwegian and Danish passengers were onboard. It is the first oceanic cruise line to resume cruises after cruising was shut down by the COVID-19 pandemic in March. Very positive step toward resuming cruise service.
https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5396/
 
johns624
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:51 am

ArchGuy1, have you ever been on a cruise?
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3996
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:32 pm

Bremerton marina has the USS Turner Joy as its north breakwater which is kind of spectacular for the condos lining the shoreline. It is fairly expensive to maintain. Every 10-15 years it needs to go to a drydock. Marine growth, hull degradation, rust etc all need attention as well as painting - $million or two. Volunteers can handle much of the topsides. Tours, overnights, Halloween (!), gift shop all cover day to day costs. The Navy pays for bed and boarding for new chiefs school every year. Expenses make it an 'iffy' thing, but it functions well as an appropriate feature for our downtown - residential, cultural, a few upscale restaurants, mid-day multi-ethnic food for ship yard workers, minimal retail, and even docking for mid-sized cruise ships. Minimal parking (too much water) which is mostly used by shipyard workers.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:05 pm

Birka Cruises (Owned by Rederiaktiebolaget Eckerö) have announced today that they will cease traffic with their cruise ship Birka.
Birka offered 22 hours cruises out of Stockholm before the Covid-19, however with the uncertainness of future cruising (which was already
a weak market) in the Baltic they decided to stop completely.

https://www.birka.se/aktuell-informatio ... oronavirus
https://www.seafun.se/en/fartyg/birka/b ... -i-graven/
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:27 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Bremerton marina has the USS Turner Joy as its north breakwater which is kind of spectacular for the condos lining the shoreline. It is fairly expensive to maintain. Every 10-15 years it needs to go to a drydock. Marine growth, hull degradation, rust etc all need attention as well as painting - $million or two. Volunteers can handle much of the topsides. Tours, overnights, Halloween (!), gift shop all cover day to day costs. The Navy pays for bed and boarding for new chiefs school every year. Expenses make it an 'iffy' thing, but it functions well as an appropriate feature for our downtown - residential, cultural, a few upscale restaurants, mid-day multi-ethnic food for ship yard workers, minimal retail, and even docking for mid-sized cruise ships. Minimal parking (too much water) which is mostly used by shipyard workers.

Do you think the Sovereign class cruise ships would be worth preserving in your opinion?
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8242
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:30 am

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1, have you ever been on a cruise?

You don't ask ArchGuy1 questions. ArchGuy1 asks YOU questions. :P :P
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3996
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:54 am

Saving an old ship is almost always a money losing proposition. Sometimes it is worth the cost. But you need your $$$ lined up in a row. I have known, know, and have seen more than a couple boats out my windows for which there are high hopes. I don't think they will be realized.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:01 am

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Saving an old ship is almost always a money losing proposition. Sometimes it is worth the cost. But you need your $$$ lined up in a row. I have known, know, and have seen more than a couple boats out my windows for which there are high hopes. I don't think they will be realized.

Are you familiar with the Sovereign class cruise ships, MV Funchal, MV Marco Polo, and MV Astoria/Stockholm?
 
johns624
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:22 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Saving an old ship is almost always a money losing proposition. Sometimes it is worth the cost. But you need your $$$ lined up in a row. I have known, know, and have seen more than a couple boats out my windows for which there are high hopes. I don't think they will be realized.

Are you familiar with the Sovereign class cruise ships, MV Funchal, MV Marco Polo, and MV Astoria/Stockholm?
No, you're the only one "familiar" with those ships, and it's only through the web for you. That's what everyone is trying to tell you, they aren't famous ships known the world over. They are old, obsolete modes of transportation that served their purpose and now need to be scrapped.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:49 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Saving an old ship is almost always a money losing proposition. Sometimes it is worth the cost. But you need your $$$ lined up in a row. I have known, know, and have seen more than a couple boats out my windows for which there are high hopes. I don't think they will be realized.

Are you familiar with the Sovereign class cruise ships, MV Funchal, MV Marco Polo, and MV Astoria/Stockholm?
No, you're the only one "familiar" with those ships, and it's only through the web for you. That's what everyone is trying to tell you, they aren't famous ships known the world over. They are old, obsolete modes of transportation that served their purpose and now need to be scrapped.

The Astoria is significant because it is the ship that collided with and sank the Andrea Doria, is the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in existence, last surviving former SAL liner, and the only SAL ship built in Sweden.
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 645
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:13 pm

Thing is though, the Astoria isn't all that special. Sure as the Stockholm it had a bit of infamy but since then it was totally stripped to an empty husk, superstructure removed and rebuilt as a completely unrecognisable ship to eventually become the Astoria.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
johns624
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:40 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Astoria is significant because it is the ship that collided with and sank the Andrea Doria, is the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in existence, last surviving former SAL liner, and the only SAL ship built in Sweden.
It's significant to you, but you are a very, very, very small minority. Now, for the question you never answered--have you ever been on a cruise?
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1286
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:22 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Astoria is significant because it is the ship that collided with and sank the Andrea Doria, is the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in existence, last surviving former SAL liner, and the only SAL ship built in Sweden.
It's significant to you, but you are a very, very, very small minority. Now, for the question you never answered--have you ever been on a cruise?

I have not been on a cruise myself.
 
johns624
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:44 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Astoria is significant because it is the ship that collided with and sank the Andrea Doria, is the second oldest seagoing passenger ship in existence, last surviving former SAL liner, and the only SAL ship built in Sweden.
It's significant to you, but you are a very, very, very small minority. Now, for the question you never answered--have you ever been on a cruise?

I have not been on a cruise myself.
Then you don't know what you're advocating. Compared to even a decent hotel, an old ocean liner cabin is small, cramped and not that well decorated. People have come to expect more in the last 40 years.
 
325i
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:01 am

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:16 pm

Greetings Folks, to our contributor ArchGuy1, as you have yet to experience an ocean voyage may I suggest your first experience should be aboard one of Regent Cruises liners.
First class accommodation,dining,entertainment and tours.
Cheers 325i.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: LCDFlight, linco22, melpax, olle and 32 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos