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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:01 pm

Celestyal adds cruise ship from Costa Cruises

ATHENS, GREECE - Celestyal Cruises, the award-winning, number one choice for travellers to the Greek Islands and the Eastern Mediterranean, announced that it has added to its fleet the Costa NeoRomantica from Costa Cruises.

Built in 1993 and extensively refurbished in 2012, the 1,800-guest ship has 789 cabins, 132 of which feature balconies, as well as a variety of dining and entertainment venues, bars and lounges, two pools, a gym and a panoramic spa.

www.traveldailynews.com/post/celestyal- ... ta-cruises
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:14 pm

Wow. Great news for Celestyal, plus I see Fred.Olsen have just confirmed their purchase of the Amsterdam and Rotterdam from Holland America Line.

I guess prices are rock bottom for these ships at the moment, so a "now or never" moment for those cruise lines that can secure finance.

https://www.worldofcruising.co.uk/fred- ... ise-ships/
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:15 pm

Fred Olsen Cruise Lines has Purchased Two New Cruise Ships

Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is buying two new ships, from none other than Holland America Line

After a tough start to 2020, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is looking ahead to the future, having just announced it’s purchasing two new cruise ships.

The cruise ships are being bought from Carnival Corporation’s Holland America Line, who announced they are selling a total of four ships.

Holland America Line is selling four cruise ships in pairs, Amsterdam and Rotterdam and Maasdam and Veendam.

While the buyer for the other two ships remains undisclosed, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines confirmed that it is the buyer for the line’s Amsterdam and Rotterdam ships.

www.worldofcruising.co.uk/fred-olsen-cr ... ise-ships/
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:17 pm

bananaboy wrote:
Wow. Great news for Celestyal, plus I see Fred.Olsen have just confirmed their purchase of the Amsterdam and Rotterdam from Holland America Line.

I guess prices are rock bottom for these ships at the moment, so a "now or never" moment for those cruise lines that can secure finance.

https://www.worldofcruising.co.uk/fred- ... ise-ships/


Was posting same time. Yes big news all round. Have been on the two HAL ships and they are nice ships.

The Celestyal move is a big one and will be a total new product for them.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:20 pm

Looks like two more HAL ships could be destined for this operator :


http://blueseas-cruises.com/
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:42 am

OA260 wrote:
Fred Olsen Cruise Lines has Purchased Two New Cruise Ships

Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is buying two new ships, from none other than Holland America Line

After a tough start to 2020, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is looking ahead to the future, having just announced it’s purchasing two new cruise ships.

The cruise ships are being bought from Carnival Corporation’s Holland America Line, who announced they are selling a total of four ships.

Holland America Line is selling four cruise ships in pairs, Amsterdam and Rotterdam and Maasdam and Veendam.

While the buyer for the other two ships remains undisclosed, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines confirmed that it is the buyer for the line’s Amsterdam and Rotterdam ships.

http://www.worldofcruising.co.uk/fred-o ... ise-ships/

I would have though they would have got one of two of the Fantasy class ships, the Marella Celebration, one of the Pullmantar Sovereign class ships, or the Tropicale.
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:31 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Fred Olsen Cruise Lines has Purchased Two New Cruise Ships

Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is buying two new ships, from none other than Holland America Line

After a tough start to 2020, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is looking ahead to the future, having just announced it’s purchasing two new cruise ships.

The cruise ships are being bought from Carnival Corporation’s Holland America Line, who announced they are selling a total of four ships.

Holland America Line is selling four cruise ships in pairs, Amsterdam and Rotterdam and Maasdam and Veendam.

While the buyer for the other two ships remains undisclosed, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines confirmed that it is the buyer for the line’s Amsterdam and Rotterdam ships.

http://www.worldofcruising.co.uk/fred-o ... ise-ships/

I would have though they would have got one of two of the Fantasy class ships, the Marella Celebration, one of the Pullmantar Sovereign class ships, or the Tropicale.


We can only guess at the reasons they didn't go for those ships.

One advantage the two ships chosen have over those above is the amount of accommodation with balconies. Whilst the proportion of balcony cabins is still low by new-build standards, it's better on the Amsterdam / Rotterdam than on something like Marella Celebration. More balconies = more £££.
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
jetwet1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 8:52 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Fred Olsen Cruise Lines has Purchased Two New Cruise Ships

Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is buying two new ships, from none other than Holland America Line

After a tough start to 2020, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is looking ahead to the future, having just announced it’s purchasing two new cruise ships.

The cruise ships are being bought from Carnival Corporation’s Holland America Line, who announced they are selling a total of four ships.

Holland America Line is selling four cruise ships in pairs, Amsterdam and Rotterdam and Maasdam and Veendam.

While the buyer for the other two ships remains undisclosed, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines confirmed that it is the buyer for the line’s Amsterdam and Rotterdam ships.

http://www.worldofcruising.co.uk/fred-o ... ise-ships/

I would have though they would have got one of two of the Fantasy class ships, the Marella Celebration, one of the Pullmantar Sovereign class ships, or the Tropicale.


I am not trying to be rude here, but how old are you ????

Why would Fred Olsen pick up ships that are anywhere from 10 to 20 years older than the Amsterdam or Rotterdam, would have to be gutted (thanks Joe Farcus) to bring them to the same taste levels as Fred Olsen guests, don't have the amenities of the the newer ships, when all they have to do with the HAL ships is change some art work.

I understand your love for older ships, but, when it comes to the vast majority of them, they will not be turned into hotel, they will not be landmarks, they will be heading to the beach where they will be cut apart, if it happened to The Norway, it's going to happen to 99.9% of the ships built from the 80's on.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:55 pm

I got an email today and Royal Caribbean Cruises, Celebrity Cruises and Azamara will be extending the suspension of sailings departing on or before 30th September, 2020, excluding Royal Caribbean China sailings.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 4:02 pm

OA260 wrote:
I got an email today and Royal Caribbean Cruises, Celebrity Cruises and Azamara will be extending the suspension of sailings departing on or before 30th September, 2020, excluding Royal Caribbean China sailings.

That's because the US banned all sailings within US waters through that day. Frankly, I don't see the cruise line industry recovering. I was hesitant to invest and buy 100 shares of NCLH when it was less than $10...it's back up to $17, but well below the price before Covid (about $65). And these bans will only put pressure on the stocks...I wonder how RCL is fairing though...having new megaships like the Oasis class must be a money drain when compared to smaller ships like the Voyager class (which should have already paid for themselves).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:11 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Fred Olsen Cruise Lines has Purchased Two New Cruise Ships

Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is buying two new ships, from none other than Holland America Line

After a tough start to 2020, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines is looking ahead to the future, having just announced it’s purchasing two new cruise ships.

The cruise ships are being bought from Carnival Corporation’s Holland America Line, who announced they are selling a total of four ships.

Holland America Line is selling four cruise ships in pairs, Amsterdam and Rotterdam and Maasdam and Veendam.

While the buyer for the other two ships remains undisclosed, Fred Olsen Cruise Lines confirmed that it is the buyer for the line’s Amsterdam and Rotterdam ships.

http://www.worldofcruising.co.uk/fred-o ... ise-ships/

I would have though they would have got one of two of the Fantasy class ships, the Marella Celebration, one of the Pullmantar Sovereign class ships, or the Tropicale.


I am not trying to be rude here, but how old are you ????

Why would Fred Olsen pick up ships that are anywhere from 10 to 20 years older than the Amsterdam or Rotterdam, would have to be gutted (thanks Joe Farcus) to bring them to the same taste levels as Fred Olsen guests, don't have the amenities of the the newer ships, when all they have to do with the HAL ships is change some art work.

I understand your love for older ships, but, when it comes to the vast majority of them, they will not be turned into hotel, they will not be landmarks, they will be heading to the beach where they will be cut apart, if it happened to The Norway, it's going to happen to 99.9% of the ships built from the 80's on.

I would have also thought that the Fantasy class ships, Marella Celebration, Tropicale, and Pullmantar Sovereign class ships would have been going to a line like Celestyal.
 
IH8BY
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:19 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
I would have though they would have got one of two of the Fantasy class ships, the Marella Celebration, one of the Pullmantar Sovereign class ships, or the Tropicale.


I am not trying to be rude here, but how old are you ????

Why would Fred Olsen pick up ships that are anywhere from 10 to 20 years older than the Amsterdam or Rotterdam, would have to be gutted (thanks Joe Farcus) to bring them to the same taste levels as Fred Olsen guests, don't have the amenities of the the newer ships, when all they have to do with the HAL ships is change some art work.

I understand your love for older ships, but, when it comes to the vast majority of them, they will not be turned into hotel, they will not be landmarks, they will be heading to the beach where they will be cut apart, if it happened to The Norway, it's going to happen to 99.9% of the ships built from the 80's on.

I would have also thought that the Fantasy class ships, Marella Celebration, Tropicale, and Pullmantar Sovereign class ships would have been going to a line like Celestyal.


Not each and every one is going to get bought I'm afraid, certainly not Monarch which is literally waiting outside the scrapyard. Plenty of lines looking to offload ships, relatively few looking to buy them. Fred. Olsen are I suppose relatively fortunate to have the backing of a company which isn't solely dependent on cruise, so they have the opportunity to get a very good deal at a time when few others are in the market. I don't know about Louis plc (owners of Celestyal Cruises) but I imagine they probably got a good deal too.

Unless you're thinking of a different ship from the one I am, at almost 40 years old and not in the cruise industry any more, I can't see any cruise line wanting to take Tropicale back. Plenty of newer ships that will need a lot less work done on them.

The comment on the Fantasy class ships that was made about Fred. Olsen applies just as much to Celestyal. Why bother spending the money completely remodelling the ships to a less Carnival look and feel inside when you can just buy something (e.g. an ex-Costa ship) that fits your needs without much work?
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:30 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Frankly, I don't see the cruise line industry recovering. I was hesitant to invest and buy 100 shares of NCLH when it was less than $10...it's back up to $17, but well below the price before Covid (about $65). And these bans will only put pressure on the stocks...I wonder how RCL is fairing though...having new megaships like the Oasis class must be a money drain when compared to smaller ships like the Voyager class (which should have already paid for themselves).

When my wife's and my NCL cruise was cancelled, we considered taking the future cruise credits. Then we decided to take the refund. We still have a voucher for a credit for a cruise that was cut short last year due to mechanical problems. Yet, we have no problem with Delta credits for the flights we had to cancel. We're much more confident that they will still be around for a long time (we hope).
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:23 pm

johns624 wrote:
When my wife's and my NCL cruise was cancelled, we considered taking the future cruise credits.

I have two CuriseNext deposits and I'm not sure what to do with them. I'm thinking about selling them to someone else. I don't have any further cruises planned, other than Epic from San Juan to Barcelona in April, and even then I'm reconsidering it.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:48 pm

News coming in that Cruise & Maritime Voyages collapses into administration
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:36 pm

OA260 wrote:
News coming in that Cruise & Maritime Voyages collapses into administration


Yes. Very sad.

https://cruise-adviser.com/cruise-marit ... istration/

I have a feeling they charter one of their ships (possibly Astoria) from another line but the rest are owned. Given their age, they don't have a bright future ahead. Marco Polo was built in 1964 and Astoria in 1946!

Absolutely gutted for them - they had a nice product. Went on Vasco da Gama, Marco Polo, Columbus and Magellan. All had a different feel but offered consistently decent service and food, all from around £50/night.
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:44 pm

Sadly this is only the start of it . Just such a shame its hit so close to home. Its going to leave a big whole in the UK market in terms of product offering. This time next year we wont recognise the industry . A friend of mine that works on QM2 has said she does not expect them to sail until next year.
 
bennett123
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:07 pm

 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:45 am

bananaboy wrote:
OA260 wrote:
News coming in that Cruise & Maritime Voyages collapses into administration


Yes. Very sad.

https://cruise-adviser.com/cruise-marit ... istration/

I have a feeling they charter one of their ships (possibly Astoria) from another line but the rest are owned. Given their age, they don't have a bright future ahead. Marco Polo was built in 1964 and Astoria in 1946!

Absolutely gutted for them - they had a nice product. Went on Vasco da Gama, Marco Polo, Columbus and Magellan. All had a different feel but offered consistently decent service and food, all from around £50/night.

I feel that the Marco Polo and Astoria should be preserved as hotel and museum ships rather than scrapped. Places for preserving Astoria include New York City, Nantucket, Rostock, Genoa, Stockholm, and Gothenburg. For Marco Polo, St.Petersburg, Rostock, and Montreal would be good places in my opinion.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:26 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:

I feel that the Marco Polo and Astoria should be preserved as hotel and museum ships rather than scrapped. Places for preserving Astoria include New York City, Nantucket, Rostock, Genoa, Stockholm, and Gothenburg. For Marco Polo, St.Petersburg, Rostock, and Montreal would be good places in my opinion.


I had a feeling...

Marco Polo has no real distinctive history. I browsed the wikipedia and it seems for the last 30 years or so the ship has either been noteworthy for hitting something, being hit by something, or being in drydock being fixed.

Speaking of hitting stuff...the Astoria is famous for sinking more tonnage than most uboat captains. Still not enough history to warrant a museum. And the locations, you need better space. Where in New York City? Or Nantucket? I haven't been there in years, but I'm pretty sure the people of Nantucket are very strict on the structures on their island. I doubt an old ship that aside from one incident that happened somewhat close by would cut it
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:08 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
OA260 wrote:
News coming in that Cruise & Maritime Voyages collapses into administration


Yes. Very sad.

https://cruise-adviser.com/cruise-marit ... istration/

I have a feeling they charter one of their ships (possibly Astoria) from another line but the rest are owned. Given their age, they don't have a bright future ahead. Marco Polo was built in 1964 and Astoria in 1946!

Absolutely gutted for them - they had a nice product. Went on Vasco da Gama, Marco Polo, Columbus and Magellan. All had a different feel but offered consistently decent service and food, all from around £50/night.

I feel that the Marco Polo and Astoria should be preserved as hotel and museum ships rather than scrapped. Places for preserving Astoria include New York City, Nantucket, Rostock, Genoa, Stockholm, and Gothenburg. For Marco Polo, St.Petersburg, Rostock, and Montreal would be good places in my opinion.


Port of Stockholm does not want a decommissioned ship of that size moored at their quays. Recently the old ship M/S Birger Jarl/Baltic Star (former cruise ship) was forced
to leave it's mooring place at Stadsgården quays due to it not being active enough as ship. Thus it was considered being a building with all sorts of different permits and rules
being associated with it (such as fire safety). https://www.stockholmdirekt.se/nyheter/ ... nOxs5dZsQ/

Having that in mind there is zero chance that Astoria would be accepted as stationary ship (building) in Stockholm and I would assume the same applies to Göteborg.
There is too much risk involved with accepting a stationary ship, like who is going to pay for it to be towed away when the business goes bust,
risk of fees not being paid (which was the case with Birger Jarl) and etc.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
VSMUT
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:25 am

What sort of cruise line is Fred Olsen line? A fleet of second-hand vessels suggests a budget operator, or am I mistaken?
 
jetwet1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:11 pm

VSMUT wrote:
What sort of cruise line is Fred Olsen line? A fleet of second-hand vessels suggests a budget operator, or am I mistaken?


Very much so, it's a premium line, closest I can think of would be Cunard, maybe a little higher like Azamara.

Yes their fleet is second hand, but they are very well maintained and their customer base is very loyal, so they must be doing something right.
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:51 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
What sort of cruise line is Fred Olsen line? A fleet of second-hand vessels suggests a budget operator, or am I mistaken?


Very much so, it's a premium line, closest I can think of would be Cunard, maybe a little higher like Azamara.

Yes their fleet is second hand, but they are very well maintained and their customer base is very loyal, so they must be doing something right.


I dont think they have the quality of dining or levels of service that Azamara do, nor the elegance of Cunard. They are a tough one to compare to anyone! Where they are similar to Azamara is they design their itineraries carefully to make the most of their ability to navigate where larger ships cannot. Think Corinth Canal, Kiel Canal and sailing into Seville rather than Cadiz.

They've not been afraid to charge a premium for this. Their ships definitely have charm and character, and they offer some nice extras like going out to explore on their RIBs. For anyone looking for a smaller ship with British onboard product, they're the only choice now (excluding niche operators like Hebridean).
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:54 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
What sort of cruise line is Fred Olsen line? A fleet of second-hand vessels suggests a budget operator, or am I mistaken?


Very much so, it's a premium line, closest I can think of would be Cunard, maybe a little higher like Azamara.

Yes their fleet is second hand, but they are very well maintained and their customer base is very loyal, so they must be doing something right.


Dont think Id put them in the same league as Cunard or Azamara having done all three to be honest. They are a decent product they attract a 70+ crowd and on board entertainment very low key. Their following is loyal though and thats what keeps them going. The cabins are a bit outdated but the crew were fantastic and food very good . I would sail them again but its a chill out bed by 10pm kind of cruise.

My only worry for Fred is much like Saga their 70+ clientele are those most at risk from COVID so bookings will struggle until things change.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:25 pm

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:

I feel that the Marco Polo and Astoria should be preserved as hotel and museum ships rather than scrapped. Places for preserving Astoria include New York City, Nantucket, Rostock, Genoa, Stockholm, and Gothenburg. For Marco Polo, St.Petersburg, Rostock, and Montreal would be good places in my opinion.


I had a feeling...

Marco Polo has no real distinctive history. I browsed the wikipedia and it seems for the last 30 years or so the ship has either been noteworthy for hitting something, being hit by something, or being in drydock being fixed.

Speaking of hitting stuff...the Astoria is famous for sinking more tonnage than most uboat captains. Still not enough history to warrant a museum. And the locations, you need better space. Where in New York City? Or Nantucket? I haven't been there in years, but I'm pretty sure the people of Nantucket are very strict on the structures on their island. I doubt an old ship that aside from one incident that happened somewhat close by would cut it

The Astoria is also significant because it is the last surviving former SAL liner in existence, second oldest seagoing passenger ship in active service, and was the only SAL ship built in Sweden.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:28 pm

Good. I thought I was the only one who wouldn't put Fred Olsen in the same category as Cunard and Azamara. They're probably in the same league as Princess and Cunard: not budget friendly (like Carnival), not party boats, catering to an elder crowd, but nowhere near a luxury brand.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:41 pm

Rumor in the Greek media that Seajets a Greek ferry company may have bought P&O Oceana.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:33 pm

I will bow to the knowledge of the others on Fred Olsen, having only seen trip reports on them i came away with the impression they were better than they seem to be, then again being in the same league as Princess isnt exactly a bad thing.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:40 am

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:

I feel that the Marco Polo and Astoria should be preserved as hotel and museum ships rather than scrapped. Places for preserving Astoria include New York City, Nantucket, Rostock, Genoa, Stockholm, and Gothenburg. For Marco Polo, St.Petersburg, Rostock, and Montreal would be good places in my opinion.


I had a feeling...

Marco Polo has no real distinctive history. I browsed the wikipedia and it seems for the last 30 years or so the ship has either been noteworthy for hitting something, being hit by something, or being in drydock being fixed.

Speaking of hitting stuff...the Astoria is famous for sinking more tonnage than most uboat captains. Still not enough history to warrant a museum. And the locations, you need better space. Where in New York City? Or Nantucket? I haven't been there in years, but I'm pretty sure the people of Nantucket are very strict on the structures on their island. I doubt an old ship that aside from one incident that happened somewhat close by would cut it

The Marco Polo is significant because it is the last Soviet ocean liner in existence, last of the Poet class ships, is the right size to be preserved, one of the last transatlantic ocean liners that were regularly used, and the only Soviet liner to serve on the Leningrad-Canada run.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:49 am

Swan Hellenic cruise line resurrected three years after closing

Seventy years on from Swan Hellenic’s beginnings, the British discovery cruise brand is set to make a return to the seas with two new expedition ships.

www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/news ... ships/amp/
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:04 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
bananaboy wrote:

Yes. Very sad.

https://cruise-adviser.com/cruise-marit ... istration/

I have a feeling they charter one of their ships (possibly Astoria) from another line but the rest are owned. Given their age, they don't have a bright future ahead. Marco Polo was built in 1964 and Astoria in 1946!

Absolutely gutted for them - they had a nice product. Went on Vasco da Gama, Marco Polo, Columbus and Magellan. All had a different feel but offered consistently decent service and food, all from around £50/night.

I feel that the Marco Polo and Astoria should be preserved as hotel and museum ships rather than scrapped. Places for preserving Astoria include New York City, Nantucket, Rostock, Genoa, Stockholm, and Gothenburg. For Marco Polo, St.Petersburg, Rostock, and Montreal would be good places in my opinion.


Port of Stockholm does not want a decommissioned ship of that size moored at their quays. Recently the old ship M/S Birger Jarl/Baltic Star (former cruise ship) was forced
to leave it's mooring place at Stadsgården quays due to it not being active enough as ship. Thus it was considered being a building with all sorts of different permits and rules
being associated with it (such as fire safety). https://www.stockholmdirekt.se/nyheter/ ... nOxs5dZsQ/

Having that in mind there is zero chance that Astoria would be accepted as stationary ship (building) in Stockholm and I would assume the same applies to Göteborg.
There is too much risk involved with accepting a stationary ship, like who is going to pay for it to be towed away when the business goes bust,
risk of fees not being paid (which was the case with Birger Jarl) and etc.


The other issue to be mindful of is Astoria looks nothing like Stockholm did when she was launched, she's be chopped and changed more times than Archguy1 has posted about ships becoming museums/hotels.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:08 pm

OA260 wrote:
Swan Hellenic cruise line resurrected three years after closing

Seventy years on from Swan Hellenic’s beginnings, the British discovery cruise brand is set to make a return to the seas with two new expedition ships.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruis ... ships/amp/


I've been working on the navigation lighting and searchlights for these vessels.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:02 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Marco Polo is significant because it is the last Soviet ocean liner in existence, last of the Poet class ships, is the right size to be preserved, one of the last transatlantic ocean liners that were regularly used, and the only Soviet liner to serve on the Leningrad-Canada run.



I think you severely overestimate how much anyone cares about the story of these ships. I take interest in ocean liners and their history, and even then...it's hard to say I'd care that the last Soviet liner was gone. The Leningrad-Canada route is hardly picturesque glamorous Image of a bygone age that everyone wishes to remember.

And like others have said, the ships are hardly what they once were. You can take a beat up old 747F in the desert and tell me all about how it was once Pan Am's flagship 747 before it was converted...but it's just simply not that anymore.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:40 pm

FGITD wrote:
You can take a beat up old 747F in the desert and tell me all about how it was once Pan Am's flagship 747 before it was converted...but it's just simply not that anymore.

And even if it WERE a flagship, what sets it aside from other 747 variants already stored in museums elsewhere (potentially from the same airline)?

Ocean liners are different to a degree: not all liners are built the same (even the megaships today differ in some aspects), but how different is it to enter a liner and see its insides from entering a cruise ship and seeing its insides?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:35 pm

Just got an email from Princess Cruises :

**PAUSE IN OPERATIONS - IMPORTANT UPDATE**

Due to the continued progression of COVID-19 and related decisions of governments, health authorities, and airlines regarding travel restrictions, we are extending our pause in global ship operations. All cruises sailing in Australia are cancelled through till 31st October 2020. All other sailings are cancelled through till 15th December 2020.

We share in your disappointment at this news, yet we continue to plan for and look forward to our return to travel, and the happiness it brings to all who cruise.
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:46 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Astoria is also significant because it is the last surviving former SAL liner in existence, second oldest seagoing passenger ship in active service, and was the only SAL ship built in Sweden.

Your first mistake is assuming that anyone had ever heard of SAL. If you asked 100 people on the street to name any of the old time ocean liner companies (not cruise lines), you'd be lucky to get a half dozen with a correct answer, and that answer would most likely be "Cunard". Of course, they probably think the Titanic was Cunard, too but it wasn't.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:55 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Astoria is also significant because it is the last surviving former SAL liner in existence, second oldest seagoing passenger ship in active service, and was the only SAL ship built in Sweden.

Your first mistake is assuming that anyone had ever heard of SAL. If you asked 100 people on the street to name any of the old time ocean liner companies (not cruise lines), you'd be lucky to get a half dozen with a correct answer, and that answer would most likely be "Cunard". Of course, they probably think the Titanic was Cunard, too but it wasn't.

Would older generation people likely know about the old time liner companies?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:01 pm

OA260 wrote:
Just got an email from Princess Cruises :

**PAUSE IN OPERATIONS - IMPORTANT UPDATE**

Due to the continued progression of COVID-19 and related decisions of governments, health authorities, and airlines regarding travel restrictions, we are extending our pause in global ship operations. All cruises sailing in Australia are cancelled through till 31st October 2020. All other sailings are cancelled through till 15th December 2020.

We share in your disappointment at this news, yet we continue to plan for and look forward to our return to travel, and the happiness it brings to all who cruise.

I wonder how cruise lines will make it out of this, and whether they'll be able to have some form of rainy day funds going forward (money set aside to cover situations like this..). I think it'll be bad publicity for the US to bailout the cruise industry, but a multinational bailout could be less controversial. After all, despite them being mostly based in the West, the tourism the cruises bring to many places is vital to many.

But it's not looking good for the industry, especially if COVID cases in the US continue to spike.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:47 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Astoria is also significant because it is the last surviving former SAL liner in existence, second oldest seagoing passenger ship in active service, and was the only SAL ship built in Sweden.

Your first mistake is assuming that anyone had ever heard of SAL. If you asked 100 people on the street to name any of the old time ocean liner companies (not cruise lines), you'd be lucky to get a half dozen with a correct answer, and that answer would most likely be "Cunard". Of course, they probably think the Titanic was Cunard, too but it wasn't.

Would older generation people likely know about the old time liner companies?
Those are the half dozen I mentioned. Other than the QE2, famous ocean liners have been gone for 45+ years. The US, QM and QE have been gone for 50+ years. The France only a few years less.
 
Ken777
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:52 pm

With all the discussions on the various ships moving around, I I'd like to see some of the smaller, older ships being refitted for that time when the cruise business kicks up again. When that happens you will not see crowds rushing to the jumbo boats, parked with pax who are a standing in line for some form of food or entertainment. Get folks into comfortable cruises, like the Mariner of the Seas. Increase discounts for Veterans and then First Responders. Bump up Senior Senior Discounts.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:53 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Your first mistake is assuming that anyone had ever heard of SAL. If you asked 100 people on the street to name any of the old time ocean liner companies (not cruise lines), you'd be lucky to get a half dozen with a correct answer, and that answer would most likely be "Cunard". Of course, they probably think the Titanic was Cunard, too but it wasn't.

Would older generation people likely know about the old time liner companies?
Those are the half dozen I mentioned. Other than the QE2, famous ocean liners have been gone for 45+ years. The US, QM and QE have been gone for 50+ years. The France only a few years less.

SS France became the SS Norway, which sailed until 2003 when a boiler explosion took her out of service. The ship was ultimately scrapped in 2008.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:10 pm

Ken777 wrote:
With all the discussions on the various ships moving around, I I'd like to see some of the smaller, older ships being refitted for that time when the cruise business kicks up again. When that happens you will not see crowds rushing to the jumbo boats, parked with pax who are a standing in line for some form of food or entertainment. Get folks into comfortable cruises, like the Mariner of the Seas. Increase discounts for Veterans and then First Responders. Bump up Senior Senior Discounts.

That's how they'll have to spool up. Start with smaller ones, maybe at reduced capacity since the ships should have already paid for themselves, then slowly ramp up the larger ones.

I don't think they'll be eager to take the megaships at half capacity, unless you can do cruises to nowhere or 3-4 day cruises.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:14 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Just got an email from Princess Cruises :

**PAUSE IN OPERATIONS - IMPORTANT UPDATE**

Due to the continued progression of COVID-19 and related decisions of governments, health authorities, and airlines regarding travel restrictions, we are extending our pause in global ship operations. All cruises sailing in Australia are cancelled through till 31st October 2020. All other sailings are cancelled through till 15th December 2020.

We share in your disappointment at this news, yet we continue to plan for and look forward to our return to travel, and the happiness it brings to all who cruise.

I wonder how cruise lines will make it out of this, and whether they'll be able to have some form of rainy day funds going forward (money set aside to cover situations like this..). I think it'll be bad publicity for the US to bailout the cruise industry, but a multinational bailout could be less controversial. After all, despite them being mostly based in the West, the tourism the cruises bring to many places is vital to many.

But it's not looking good for the industry, especially if COVID cases in the US continue to spike.


Its so hard to predict what the industry will look like after all this. In many aspects this is a pause and the real fight for survival will begin when things get back to a new normal . I fear thats when we will see more closures. Same with the travel industry in general.

I don't think Id get on a cruise myself until a vaccine is found or a good treatment. Never thought Id feel that way but its got to that stage now. Im aiming for my next cruise in November 2021. I have one booked for this November which is likely to be cancelled . I should get a FCC for 125% .If we get good news next Spring then maybe a mini cruise in Summer but we shall see.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:31 pm

OA260 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Just got an email from Princess Cruises :

**PAUSE IN OPERATIONS - IMPORTANT UPDATE**

Due to the continued progression of COVID-19 and related decisions of governments, health authorities, and airlines regarding travel restrictions, we are extending our pause in global ship operations. All cruises sailing in Australia are cancelled through till 31st October 2020. All other sailings are cancelled through till 15th December 2020.

We share in your disappointment at this news, yet we continue to plan for and look forward to our return to travel, and the happiness it brings to all who cruise.

I wonder how cruise lines will make it out of this, and whether they'll be able to have some form of rainy day funds going forward (money set aside to cover situations like this..). I think it'll be bad publicity for the US to bailout the cruise industry, but a multinational bailout could be less controversial. After all, despite them being mostly based in the West, the tourism the cruises bring to many places is vital to many.

But it's not looking good for the industry, especially if COVID cases in the US continue to spike.


Its so hard to predict what the industry will look like after all this. In many aspects this is a pause and the real fight for survival will begin when things get back to a new normal . I fear thats when we will see more closures. Same with the travel industry in general.

I don't think Id get on a cruise myself until a vaccine is found or a good treatment. Never thought Id feel that way but its got to that stage now. Im aiming for my next cruise in November 2021. I have one booked for this November which is likely to be cancelled . I should get a FCC for 125% .If we get good news next Spring then maybe a mini cruise in Summer but we shall see.

Cruises have already resumed in Norway and will soon in Taiwan.
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:02 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Would older generation people likely know about the old time liner companies?
Those are the half dozen I mentioned. Other than the QE2, famous ocean liners have been gone for 45+ years. The US, QM and QE have been gone for 50+ years. The France only a few years less.

SS France became the SS Norway, which sailed until 2003 when a boiler explosion took her out of service. The ship was ultimately scrapped in 2008.
I know that, but it was no longer an ocean liner, it was a cruise ship.
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:06 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
With all the discussions on the various ships moving around, I I'd like to see some of the smaller, older ships being refitted for that time when the cruise business kicks up again. When that happens you will not see crowds rushing to the jumbo boats, parked with pax who are a standing in line for some form of food or entertainment. Get folks into comfortable cruises, like the Mariner of the Seas. Increase discounts for Veterans and then First Responders. Bump up Senior Senior Discounts.

That's how they'll have to spool up. Start with smaller ones, maybe at reduced capacity since the ships should have already paid for themselves, then slowly ramp up the larger ones.

I don't think they'll be eager to take the megaships at half capacity, unless you can do cruises to nowhere or 3-4 day cruises.
Aren't a big percentage of the megaships dedicated to the Caribbean just for those kinds of cruises. I know some have been doing Alaska, but that's just a relatively recent thing. I'm most familiar with NCL and in 5 cruises, I've never been on one of their big ships. I've been on the Star (2), Sun, Pearl and Jewel.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:51 am

johns624 wrote:
Aren't a big percentage of the megaships dedicated to the Caribbean just for those kinds of cruises. I know some have been doing Alaska, but that's just a relatively recent thing. I'm most familiar with NCL and in 5 cruises, I've never been on one of their big ships. I've been on the Star (2), Sun, Pearl and Jewel.

Some, though both NCL and RCI were experimenting with positioning a megaship in the Chinese and Mediterranean markets. NCL had dedicated the Joy for the Chinese market, but seems expectations were not met and she was brought back stateside. RCI has Spectrum operating in East Asia. And if I'm not mistaken, one of them had plans to position a ship to serve the Mediterranean year round.

You are correct that some reposition the megaships for Alaska or European cruises but most remain in the Caribbean. However, from a cost standpoint, if you're gonna start at mid capacity, would you rather move an entire city block or just the size of an apartment building? The megaships will be hard to operate; lots of indoor venues will likely remain closed or limited. Even with half occupancy, you'll still likely need the full fledged crew. Restaurants will be severely limited in the number of people they can sit, which means they'll have to encourage people to eat in other venues. Pools and sun decks will be very limited to avoid overcrowding. Embarking/disembarking will take away a lot of time as they'll need to ensure adequate distancing and sanitized surfaces for the card scan.

Small, slimmer ships can handle it more economically. There's less to move around and less people on payroll. Until herd immunity is achieved (if at all) or a vaccine is found and provides significant protection, I think the megaships will remain idle or doing short cruises so that they're still used but don't have to burn too much cash.

An analogy would be moving one single pallet of cargo 200 miles with either a 757 or an A380...neither is efficient, but if you must, the 757 will be cheaper to operate.

As for the megaships in NCL, I've been on Epic and Encore and I loved both of them. Encore is definitely suited for cold weather sailings though. The public areas outdoors are limited; The Haven guests get a significant portion at the front of the ship; the pool area is very small, and toward the back are the laser tag arena and the go-kart track (at $15 apiece). Stay indoors and enjoy what the ship offers, or get a balcony cabin if you want some sunshine and a seat to relax in. Epic is definitely better suited for the Caribbean...for now anyway...when I did the Encore transatlantic, we were speculating that NCL may do away with Spice H2O (an adults only area at the back of the ship) and turn it into Vibe Beach Club (an area you have to pay for...and it's not cheap).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:14 pm

Two Pullmantur ships ex RCI being scrapped in Turkey


Image
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:30 pm

OA260 wrote:
Two Pullmantur ships ex RCI being scrapped in Turkey


Image

Would the Sovereign and Monarch have been worth preserving as hotel and museum ships in your opinion.
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