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FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:20 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
There are over a hundred museum ships worldwide of varioud types and they are in some cases highly profitable. So, I could see some cruise ships built since the early 1990's, in addition to the ocean liner Queen Mary 2 snd up being preserved as hotel and museum ships.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museum_ships

1. Most are much smaller than a cruise ship or ocean liner. Therefore, they are less expensive to run.
2. They were preserved due to widespread notoriety. Most ships that you suggest for saving aren't well known at all.
3. Many are either government owned or a government/private partnership. I don't see a government getting involved with a cruise ship.
4. There are many hundreds more that were preserved until interest faded and they were quietly towed to the shipbreakers. Along with steam locomotives, airplanes, etc.


The size and notoriety is the biggest obstacle, I would think. Big ship takes big resources. They have to be interesting ships too. Warships do well because there's weapons, planning rooms, technical areas etc etc. A cruise ship is 10-15 decks of essentially the same thing.

No cruise ship from the 90s will fit that bill. They are not interesting, they're not historic, they have are a waste of resources
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:41 pm

Royal Caribbean Cruises: Time To Buy?

Royal Caribbean Cruises (NYSE: RCL) stock is almost down 50% this year, and why shouldn’t it be? The travel industry is suffering, and cruise liners are the worst affected. Royal Caribbean’s Q2 2020 earnings saw an unprecedented 93.7% decline in revenue compared to the same period a year ago. Full year sales can fall as much as 75% and it may take more than a year for the cruise liner to get back to a pre-Covid revenue run rate. So this may actually be a good time to get invested. Why? First, the company’s liquidity position is strong as we argue here. It can stay cash flow positive even with a 50% revenue decline, and has taken additional debt this year so even 75% revenue decline is covered.

www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/ ... o-buy/amp/
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:51 pm

^I've avoided cruise stocks. Early during the pandemic, they seemed like great buys, but now, given that some are not cruising at all this year, it becomes difficult to sink money into them. That being said, some do have enough cash on hand to stay alive until the end of the year, but until a vaccine is announced, I wouldn't toy with cruise stocks.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:31 pm

They have borrowed heavily and that money has to be paid back. This isn't regular debt, for shipbuilding, overhauls, supplies, etc, which is expected. This is additional debt with no revenue coming in now or for awhile. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:57 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Just...don't...it's like talking in an echo chamber: you'll only hear the same thing over and over.

That being said, I'm amazed they have not made a decision with Empress while slowly removing the Vision class twins. Hard to believe that the Voyager class is entering that area where one more refurbishment could be the last one done (Voyager entered service in 1999 so she's already 20 years old...). Will they be sold/handed off to other cruise lines or will they be kept until into their 40s and then scrapped?


I think 100,000 ton vessels are far to big for the secondary market, most of those ship owners a niche operators catering to a specific market. They don't need or want vessels like this. It's probably going to be cheaper for them to order new builds tailored to there needs than modifying a second hand vessel. Saga used to operate second hand vessels then went newbuild for it's latest vessels. I can see Fred Olsen going the same route.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Or they could become hotel and museum ships like the Queen Mary or SS Rotterdam.


There's only so many places that want an old cruise vessel cluttering up the waterfront. These aren't historic vessels by any stretch, I don't believe any vessel made since the start of the cruise boom in the early 90's is going anywhere other than the scrappers.

There are over a hundred museum ships worldwide of varioud types and they are in some cases highly profitable. So, I could see some cruise ships built since the early 1990's, in addition to the ocean liner Queen Mary 2 snd up being preserved as hotel and museum ships.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museum_ships


It looks like only 3 of the vessels in the list are used as hotels, the rest are either too small or they are naval vessels which are unsuitable for conversion to a hotel.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:04 am

johns624 wrote:
Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.


Very true thats always been my motto in life .
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:38 pm

FGITD wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
There are over a hundred museum ships worldwide of varioud types and they are in some cases highly profitable. So, I could see some cruise ships built since the early 1990's, in addition to the ocean liner Queen Mary 2 snd up being preserved as hotel and museum ships.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_museum_ships

1. Most are much smaller than a cruise ship or ocean liner. Therefore, they are less expensive to run.
2. They were preserved due to widespread notoriety. Most ships that you suggest for saving aren't well known at all.
3. Many are either government owned or a government/private partnership. I don't see a government getting involved with a cruise ship.
4. There are many hundreds more that were preserved until interest faded and they were quietly towed to the shipbreakers. Along with steam locomotives, airplanes, etc.


The size and notoriety is the biggest obstacle, I would think. Big ship takes big resources. They have to be interesting ships too. Warships do well because there's weapons, planning rooms, technical areas etc etc. A cruise ship is 10-15 decks of essentially the same thing.

No cruise ship from the 90s will fit that bill. They are not interesting, they're not historic, they have are a waste of resources

Are the Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, QE2, SS Great Britain, and Hikawa Maru interesting ships?
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:00 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Are the Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, QE2, SS Great Britain, and Hikawa Maru interesting ships?


QM- I suppose so, it's a relic from a bygone era.
Rotterdam- No
QE2- Personally I think it was not quite interesting enough to save.
SS GB- Of course, it is from the pioneering age of steamship development. And anything by Brunel is noteworthy (rightly so), such as the Thames Tunnel, Paddington Station, the GWR, etc...
Hikawa Maru- I wasn't aware of this ship, but after a quick look on wiki I can say that it does have an interesting past.

Now... how many of the ugly behemoths today are worth saving? How many of them have a rich history of being involved in major world events (even the QE2 was involved in the Falklands conflict)? How many of them were true pioneers of new technology?
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:11 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Are the Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, QE2, SS Great Britain, and Hikawa Maru interesting ships?


QM- I suppose so, it's a relic from a bygone era.
Rotterdam- No
QE2- Personally I think it was not quite interesting enough to save.
SS GB- Of course, it is from the pioneering age of steamship development. And anything by Brunel is noteworthy (rightly so), such as the Thames Tunnel, Paddington Station, the GWR, etc...
Hikawa Maru- I wasn't aware of this ship, but after a quick look on wiki I can say that it does have an interesting past.

Now... how many of the ugly behemoths today are worth saving? How many of them have a rich history of being involved in major world events (even the QE2 was involved in the Falklands conflict)? How many of them were true pioneers of new technology?

Are the MV Bore, Minghua, and MV Doulos interesting ships as well?
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:51 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Are the Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, QE2, SS Great Britain, and Hikawa Maru interesting ships?


QM- I suppose so, it's a relic from a bygone era.
Rotterdam- No
QE2- Personally I think it was not quite interesting enough to save.
SS GB- Of course, it is from the pioneering age of steamship development. And anything by Brunel is noteworthy (rightly so), such as the Thames Tunnel, Paddington Station, the GWR, etc...
Hikawa Maru- I wasn't aware of this ship, but after a quick look on wiki I can say that it does have an interesting past.

Now... how many of the ugly behemoths today are worth saving? How many of them have a rich history of being involved in major world events (even the QE2 was involved in the Falklands conflict)? How many of them were true pioneers of new technology?

Are the MV Bore, Minghua, and MV Doulos interesting ships as well?


I have no idea, as I have never heard of those ships. Therein lies the logic that you fail to grasp EVERY time... the general public are very likely not aware of them either. Not enough to warrant exhibiting them anyway.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:12 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:

QM- I suppose so, it's a relic from a bygone era.
Rotterdam- No
QE2- Personally I think it was not quite interesting enough to save.
SS GB- Of course, it is from the pioneering age of steamship development. And anything by Brunel is noteworthy (rightly so), such as the Thames Tunnel, Paddington Station, the GWR, etc...
Hikawa Maru- I wasn't aware of this ship, but after a quick look on wiki I can say that it does have an interesting past.

Now... how many of the ugly behemoths today are worth saving? How many of them have a rich history of being involved in major world events (even the QE2 was involved in the Falklands conflict)? How many of them were true pioneers of new technology?

Are the MV Bore, Minghua, and MV Doulos interesting ships as well?


I have no idea, as I have never heard of those ships. Therein lies the logic that you fail to grasp EVERY time... the general public are very likely not aware of them either. Not enough to warrant exhibiting them anyway.

Those ships are already preserved as hotel and museum ships.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:24 am

BlueberryWheats wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:

QM- I suppose so, it's a relic from a bygone era.
Rotterdam- No
QE2- Personally I think it was not quite interesting enough to save.
SS GB- Of course, it is from the pioneering age of steamship development. And anything by Brunel is noteworthy (rightly so), such as the Thames Tunnel, Paddington Station, the GWR, etc...
Hikawa Maru- I wasn't aware of this ship, but after a quick look on wiki I can say that it does have an interesting past.

Now... how many of the ugly behemoths today are worth saving? How many of them have a rich history of being involved in major world events (even the QE2 was involved in the Falklands conflict)? How many of them were true pioneers of new technology?

Are the MV Bore, Minghua, and MV Doulos interesting ships as well?


I have no idea, as I have never heard of those ships. Therein lies the logic that you fail to grasp EVERY time... the general public are very likely not aware of them either. Not enough to warrant exhibiting them anyway.


I had to look them up, apparently they are already preserved in some way.

MV Bore was saved because the owners didn't want it scrapped and somehow found an investor with a personal connection to the ship to save it. Give it a generation or two and they'll lose that connection, and off to the scrapers she'll go.

Minghua is now a building at a sea world in China. How prestigious...

MV Doulos likewise is now on land. Another vanity project

None of these ships have a particularly interesting story. And YET they are infinitely more interesting than any of the cruise ships being built or retired these days.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:08 pm

FGITD wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Are the MV Bore, Minghua, and MV Doulos interesting ships as well?


I have no idea, as I have never heard of those ships. Therein lies the logic that you fail to grasp EVERY time... the general public are very likely not aware of them either. Not enough to warrant exhibiting them anyway.


I had to look them up, apparently they are already preserved in some way.

MV Bore was saved because the owners didn't want it scrapped and somehow found an investor with a personal connection to the ship to save it. Give it a generation or two and they'll lose that connection, and off to the scrapers she'll go.

Minghua is now a building at a sea world in China. How prestigious...

MV Doulos likewise is now on land. Another vanity project

None of these ships have a particularly interesting story. And YET they are infinitely more interesting than any of the cruise ships being built or retired these days.

Are the Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, QE2, Hikawa Maru, and SS Great Britain interesting ships in your opinion?
 
Ken777
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:34 pm

When business xis really tight (like these days) I think there might be a slight chance to generate revenues acting as a temporary hotel. Look at Mardi Gras in New Orleans. Get a ship (probably not the larger ones, to leave New York on a holiday cruise. Tie up in New Orleans for the festivities and then take the pax back home.

How many other "events" close to the sea would make it possible to fill (at least partially) a non-producing cruise ship?

The other issue is the ability to generate some revenues from a smaller ship to keep it active, I'm a believer that there will soon be imitations on the size of ships going to some major deports, like Venice. The locals are more than a little tired of the jumbos arriving and screwing up their llves. 2,000 pax is probably more than enough.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:41 pm

It would have to visit a foreign port or get fined, either case opens up a huge can of worms.

I think we will actually see the mega ships sailing first, for a couple of reasons...They carry the most debt for the company, and, there will probably be occupancy limits, say every other cabin being occupied, so it makes sense to sail the ships with the most cabins....Of course they also have the highest running costs....Oh hell now i'm sitting on the fence.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:00 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:

Are the Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, QE2, Hikawa Maru, and SS Great Britain interesting ships in your opinion?


Queen Mary, sure. Last from a different age, though I wish the Normandie had survived instead


SS Rotterdam...not really noteworthy.

QE2 really isn't interesting. An ocean liner turned cruise ship. Long service history, but seemingly not an especially groundbreaking ship

SS Great Britain is also the last of her era so noteworthy

Not familiar enough with the Hikawa Maru
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:14 am

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:

Are the Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, QE2, Hikawa Maru, and SS Great Britain interesting ships in your opinion?


Queen Mary, sure. Last from a different age, though I wish the Normandie had survived instead


SS Rotterdam...not really noteworthy.

QE2 really isn't interesting. An ocean liner turned cruise ship. Long service history, but seemingly not an especially groundbreaking ship

SS Great Britain is also the last of her era so noteworthy

Not familiar enough with the Hikawa Maru

Why do you wish the SS Normandie had survived rather than the Queen Mary?
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:41 am

Wonder of the Seas has been floated out


Image
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:27 pm

Tom Cruise is keeping two Hurtigruten ships sailing amid ongoing pandemic

CRUISE holidays may be off the cards for many of us this year but it seems that's not the case for actor Tom Cruise. The star is taking two Hurtigruten ships to sea this September, but why?

www.express.co.uk/travel/cruise/1331556 ... avirus/amp
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:08 pm

OA260 wrote:
Tom Cruise is keeping two Hurtigruten ships sailing amid ongoing pandemic

CRUISE holidays may be off the cards for many of us this year but it seems that's not the case for actor Tom Cruise. The star is taking two Hurtigruten ships to sea this September, but why?

http://www.express.co.uk/travel/cruise/ ... avirus/amp


His production company is chartering them, one for use as a hotel ship and one as a transport and possibly shooting location.

Also they are basically passenger ferries, wouldn't call them cruise ships or liners.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:45 pm

IH8BY wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:

I am not trying to be rude here, but how old are you ????

Why would Fred Olsen pick up ships that are anywhere from 10 to 20 years older than the Amsterdam or Rotterdam, would have to be gutted (thanks Joe Farcus) to bring them to the same taste levels as Fred Olsen guests, don't have the amenities of the the newer ships, when all they have to do with the HAL ships is change some art work.

I understand your love for older ships, but, when it comes to the vast majority of them, they will not be turned into hotel, they will not be landmarks, they will be heading to the beach where they will be cut apart, if it happened to The Norway, it's going to happen to 99.9% of the ships built from the 80's on.

I would have also thought that the Fantasy class ships, Marella Celebration, Tropicale, and Pullmantar Sovereign class ships would have been going to a line like Celestyal.


Not each and every one is going to get bought I'm afraid, certainly not Monarch which is literally waiting outside the scrapyard. Plenty of lines looking to offload ships, relatively few looking to buy them. Fred. Olsen are I suppose relatively fortunate to have the backing of a company which isn't solely dependent on cruise, so they have the opportunity to get a very good deal at a time when few others are in the market. I don't know about Louis plc (owners of Celestyal Cruises) but I imagine they probably got a good deal too.

Unless you're thinking of a different ship from the one I am, at almost 40 years old and not in the cruise industry any more, I can't see any cruise line wanting to take Tropicale back. Plenty of newer ships that will need a lot less work done on them.

The comment on the Fantasy class ships that was made about Fred. Olsen applies just as much to Celestyal. Why bother spending the money completely remodelling the ships to a less Carnival look and feel inside when you can just buy something (e.g. an ex-Costa ship) that fits your needs without much work?

The Europa (1981) is still going to another line despite being almost 40 years old and many liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed for 40 to 50 years before being scrapped. 10 years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a 1970's cruise ship to have been scrapped.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:18 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:

Are the Queen Mary, SS Rotterdam, QE2, Hikawa Maru, and SS Great Britain interesting ships in your opinion?


Queen Mary, sure. Last from a different age, though I wish the Normandie had survived instead


SS Rotterdam...not really noteworthy.

QE2 really isn't interesting. An ocean liner turned cruise ship. Long service history, but seemingly not an especially groundbreaking ship

SS Great Britain is also the last of her era so noteworthy

Not familiar enough with the Hikawa Maru

Why do you wish the SS Normandie had survived rather than the Queen Mary?


Much more innovative ship, and in my opinion would have been a better representative of the time period.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:59 pm

FGITD wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:

Queen Mary, sure. Last from a different age, though I wish the Normandie had survived instead


SS Rotterdam...not really noteworthy.

QE2 really isn't interesting. An ocean liner turned cruise ship. Long service history, but seemingly not an especially groundbreaking ship

SS Great Britain is also the last of her era so noteworthy

Not familiar enough with the Hikawa Maru

Why do you wish the SS Normandie had survived rather than the Queen Mary?


Much more innovative ship, and in my opinion would have been a better representative of the time period.

The first class dining room on the SS Normandie for example echoed the Hall of Mirrors at the Palace of Versailles and there was a lot of highly valued artwork on that ship. Also, the two biggest suites would rival even the grandest hotel suites on land even today.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:45 am

northstardc4m wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Tom Cruise is keeping two Hurtigruten ships sailing amid ongoing pandemic

CRUISE holidays may be off the cards for many of us this year but it seems that's not the case for actor Tom Cruise. The star is taking two Hurtigruten ships to sea this September, but why?

http://www.express.co.uk/travel/cruise/ ... avirus/amp


His production company is chartering them, one for use as a hotel ship and one as a transport and possibly shooting location.

Also they are basically passenger ferries, wouldn't call them cruise ships or liners.


Fridtjof Nansen is a cruise ship, her and her sister were specifically built for polar cruising, they are not used on the Hurtigruten route.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:47 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
IH8BY wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
I would have also thought that the Fantasy class ships, Marella Celebration, Tropicale, and Pullmantar Sovereign class ships would have been going to a line like Celestyal.


Not each and every one is going to get bought I'm afraid, certainly not Monarch which is literally waiting outside the scrapyard. Plenty of lines looking to offload ships, relatively few looking to buy them. Fred. Olsen are I suppose relatively fortunate to have the backing of a company which isn't solely dependent on cruise, so they have the opportunity to get a very good deal at a time when few others are in the market. I don't know about Louis plc (owners of Celestyal Cruises) but I imagine they probably got a good deal too.

Unless you're thinking of a different ship from the one I am, at almost 40 years old and not in the cruise industry any more, I can't see any cruise line wanting to take Tropicale back. Plenty of newer ships that will need a lot less work done on them.

The comment on the Fantasy class ships that was made about Fred. Olsen applies just as much to Celestyal. Why bother spending the money completely remodelling the ships to a less Carnival look and feel inside when you can just buy something (e.g. an ex-Costa ship) that fits your needs without much work?

The Europa (1981) is still going to another line despite being almost 40 years old and many liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed for 40 to 50 years before being scrapped. 10 years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a 1970's cruise ship to have been scrapped.


There weren't very many cruise ships built in the 1970's. No cruise vessel built today is going to a have a 40+ year service life.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:45 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
IH8BY wrote:

Not each and every one is going to get bought I'm afraid, certainly not Monarch which is literally waiting outside the scrapyard. Plenty of lines looking to offload ships, relatively few looking to buy them. Fred. Olsen are I suppose relatively fortunate to have the backing of a company which isn't solely dependent on cruise, so they have the opportunity to get a very good deal at a time when few others are in the market. I don't know about Louis plc (owners of Celestyal Cruises) but I imagine they probably got a good deal too.

Unless you're thinking of a different ship from the one I am, at almost 40 years old and not in the cruise industry any more, I can't see any cruise line wanting to take Tropicale back. Plenty of newer ships that will need a lot less work done on them.

The comment on the Fantasy class ships that was made about Fred. Olsen applies just as much to Celestyal. Why bother spending the money completely remodelling the ships to a less Carnival look and feel inside when you can just buy something (e.g. an ex-Costa ship) that fits your needs without much work?

The Europa (1981) is still going to another line despite being almost 40 years old and many liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed for 40 to 50 years before being scrapped. 10 years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a 1970's cruise ship to have been scrapped.


There weren't very many cruise ships built in the 1970's. No cruise vessel built today is going to a have a 40+ year service life.

Why is the Europa (1981) still going to another line for further cruise service?
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:49 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Europa (1981) is still going to another line despite being almost 40 years old and many liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed for 40 to 50 years before being scrapped. 10 years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a 1970's cruise ship to have been scrapped.


There weren't very many cruise ships built in the 1970's. No cruise vessel built today is going to a have a 40+ year service life.

Why is the Europa (1981) still going to another line for further cruise service?


She’s going to a start up company, they can’t afford new tonnage, if this fails I can’t see her going anywhere other than a wreckers yard, she won’t have to sail far her new owners are Turkish’s
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:32 pm

Cruise Ship Fleet Headed to Auction Block

Five ships from Cruise & Maritime Voyages will be auctioned off via CW Kellock & Co in October as five separate lots.

Up for Auction
- 1993-built Vasco Da Gama (Bid Deadline October 8)
- 1989-built Columbus (Bid Deadline October 12)
- 1985-built Magellan (Bid Deadline October 19)
- 1987-built Astor (Bid Deadline October 15)
- 1965-built Marco Polo (Bid Deadline October 22)

All ships are in Tilbury and can be inspected by arrangement, with the exception of the Marco Polo, which is tied up in Avonmouth and can also be inspected.

www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/ ... block.html
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:44 pm

OA260 wrote:
Cruise Ship Fleet Headed to Auction Block

Five ships from Cruise & Maritime Voyages will be auctioned off via CW Kellock & Co in October as five separate lots.

Up for Auction
- 1993-built Vasco Da Gama (Bid Deadline October 8)
- 1989-built Columbus (Bid Deadline October 12)
- 1985-built Magellan (Bid Deadline October 19)
- 1987-built Astor (Bid Deadline October 15)
- 1965-built Marco Polo (Bid Deadline October 22)

All ships are in Tilbury and can be inspected by arrangement, with the exception of the Marco Polo, which is tied up in Avonmouth and can also be inspected.

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruis ... block.html

Hope to see Marco Polo preserved as a hotel and museum ship and the newer ships sold to another line.
 
bennett123
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:58 pm

Why am I not surprised.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:01 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Cruise Ship Fleet Headed to Auction Block

Five ships from Cruise & Maritime Voyages will be auctioned off via CW Kellock & Co in October as five separate lots.

Up for Auction
- 1993-built Vasco Da Gama (Bid Deadline October 8)
- 1989-built Columbus (Bid Deadline October 12)
- 1985-built Magellan (Bid Deadline October 19)
- 1987-built Astor (Bid Deadline October 15)
- 1965-built Marco Polo (Bid Deadline October 22)

All ships are in Tilbury and can be inspected by arrangement, with the exception of the Marco Polo, which is tied up in Avonmouth and can also be inspected.

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruis ... block.html

Hope to see Marco Polo preserved as a hotel and museum ship and the newer ships sold to another line.


A lot of people have a soft spot for Marco Polo so would like to see it sold and still sailing for another few years but chances are slim sadly .
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:25 pm

OA260 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
OA260 wrote:
Cruise Ship Fleet Headed to Auction Block

Five ships from Cruise & Maritime Voyages will be auctioned off via CW Kellock & Co in October as five separate lots.

Up for Auction
- 1993-built Vasco Da Gama (Bid Deadline October 8)
- 1989-built Columbus (Bid Deadline October 12)
- 1985-built Magellan (Bid Deadline October 19)
- 1987-built Astor (Bid Deadline October 15)
- 1965-built Marco Polo (Bid Deadline October 22)

All ships are in Tilbury and can be inspected by arrangement, with the exception of the Marco Polo, which is tied up in Avonmouth and can also be inspected.

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruis ... block.html

Hope to see Marco Polo preserved as a hotel and museum ship and the newer ships sold to another line.


A lot of people have a soft spot for Marco Polo so would like to see it sold and still sailing for another few years but chances are slim sadly .

If Marco Polo has any chance of surviving, it would be as a hotel and museum ship most likely.
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:43 pm

Sure we're going to see the reboot of CMV and them bidding on a couple of these with a view to future restart. They have everything they need, except the ships.

My money would be on Columbus and Marco Polo making a return...Columbus is a little larger than Magellan, I think has more balconies and as it's newer, is likely to be more efficient than Magellan. I think they'd go for Marco Polo to be able to offer cruises through restricted waterways such as the Kiel Canal as well as getting into smaller ports (although she has a deep draft which doesn't help). In addition, as was mentioned earlier, she has an exceptionally keen fan club who would no doubt show great interest in her return.

Just my 2p....
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:46 pm

Good to see a new cruise line planning to launch.

Tradewind Voyages acquired a Star Clippers ship that wasn't taken up and have upgraded her to a more luxury experience.

What's nice is that they're planning the majority of their operations to be wind-powered.

https://www.tradewindvoyages.com/

Hoping to be onboard a preview sailing when they are able to operate.

Wishing them all the best of luck


Image
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:54 am

Virgin Voyages to Set Sail with Contactless Food Delivery, Upgraded Air Filtration
The cruise line was already eschewing cruise staples like buffets, setting Virgin Voyages ahead of the pack.

The pandemic delayed the first sailing of Virgin's hotly anticipated cruise ship Scarlet Lady until this month. But when it does begin exploring the Caribbean, it will feature several innovations that will matter to cruisers in the COVID era, in addition to the ballyhooed tattoo parlor, record store, and drag brunches. “When the pandemic hit, all of us in the hospitality industry had to pause to consider how to change the consumer experience to make guests feel safe and secure,” says Nirmal Saverimuttu, the chief experience officer for Virgin Voyages. “And we found that investments we made in developing a new customer experience had a lot to offer for a healthier, safer environment.”

www.cntraveler.com/story/virgin-voyages ... filtration
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:26 am

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
IH8BY wrote:

Not each and every one is going to get bought I'm afraid, certainly not Monarch which is literally waiting outside the scrapyard. Plenty of lines looking to offload ships, relatively few looking to buy them. Fred. Olsen are I suppose relatively fortunate to have the backing of a company which isn't solely dependent on cruise, so they have the opportunity to get a very good deal at a time when few others are in the market. I don't know about Louis plc (owners of Celestyal Cruises) but I imagine they probably got a good deal too.

Unless you're thinking of a different ship from the one I am, at almost 40 years old and not in the cruise industry any more, I can't see any cruise line wanting to take Tropicale back. Plenty of newer ships that will need a lot less work done on them.

The comment on the Fantasy class ships that was made about Fred. Olsen applies just as much to Celestyal. Why bother spending the money completely remodelling the ships to a less Carnival look and feel inside when you can just buy something (e.g. an ex-Costa ship) that fits your needs without much work?

The Europa (1981) is still going to another line despite being almost 40 years old and many liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed for 40 to 50 years before being scrapped. 10 years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a 1970's cruise ship to have been scrapped.


There weren't very many cruise ships built in the 1970's. No cruise vessel built today is going to a have a 40+ year service life.

Why is the nearly 40 year old Saga Sapphire still going to another cruise line, when Carnival Fantasy, Inspiration, Imagination, Monarch of the Seas, and Sovereign of the Seas that are all considerably newer are going to the scrapyard?
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:31 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Europa (1981) is still going to another line despite being almost 40 years old and many liners and cruise ships built from the 1950's onward sailed for 40 to 50 years before being scrapped. 10 years ago, it was virtually unheard of for a 1970's cruise ship to have been scrapped.


There weren't very many cruise ships built in the 1970's. No cruise vessel built today is going to a have a 40+ year service life.

Why is the nearly 40 year old Saga Sapphire still going to another cruise line, when Carnival Fantasy, Inspiration, Imagination, Monarch of the Seas, and Sovereign of the Seas that are all considerably newer are going to the scrapyard?


Her new owners are a start up, they bought a very cheap old ship, I doubt the venture will ever get off the ground so it will likely be a short career with them and an even shorted sail to the wreckers yard.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:10 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

There weren't very many cruise ships built in the 1970's. No cruise vessel built today is going to a have a 40+ year service life.

Why is the nearly 40 year old Saga Sapphire still going to another cruise line, when Carnival Fantasy, Inspiration, Imagination, Monarch of the Seas, and Sovereign of the Seas that are all considerably newer are going to the scrapyard?


Her new owners are a start up, they bought a very cheap old ship, I doubt the venture will ever get off the ground so it will likely be a short career with them and an even shorted sail to the wreckers yard.

Also, why are the Costa NeoRomantica, Veendam, and Maasdam still going to another line when the Carnival Imagination and Inspiration that are a little newer are going to the scrapyard?
 
IH8BY
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:16 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Why is the nearly 40 year old Saga Sapphire still going to another cruise line, when Carnival Fantasy, Inspiration, Imagination, Monarch of the Seas, and Sovereign of the Seas that are all considerably newer are going to the scrapyard?


Her new owners are a start up, they bought a very cheap old ship, I doubt the venture will ever get off the ground so it will likely be a short career with them and an even shorted sail to the wreckers yard.

Also, why are the Costa NeoRomantica, Veendam, and Maasdam still going to another line when the Carnival Imagination and Inspiration that are a little newer are going to the scrapyard?


Nobody wants to buy them and then spend a fortune on making them "not Carnival" at this time, I suppose.
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:42 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Why is the nearly 40 year old Saga Sapphire still going to another cruise line, when Carnival Fantasy, Inspiration, Imagination, Monarch of the Seas, and Sovereign of the Seas that are all considerably newer are going to the scrapyard?


Her new owners are a start up, they bought a very cheap old ship, I doubt the venture will ever get off the ground so it will likely be a short career with them and an even shorted sail to the wreckers yard.

Also, why are the Costa NeoRomantica, Veendam, and Maasdam still going to another line when the Carnival Imagination and Inspiration that are a little newer are going to the scrapyard?


I don’t know, to answer that question you should talk to a shop broker. Chances are those vessels were a better fit and in better condition than the newer Carnival vessels. Carnival ships tend to have pretty crappy interiors so that was probably a factor.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:56 am

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Her new owners are a start up, they bought a very cheap old ship, I doubt the venture will ever get off the ground so it will likely be a short career with them and an even shorted sail to the wreckers yard.

Also, why are the Costa NeoRomantica, Veendam, and Maasdam still going to another line when the Carnival Imagination and Inspiration that are a little newer are going to the scrapyard?


I don’t know, to answer that question you should talk to a shop broker. Chances are those vessels were a better fit and in better condition than the newer Carnival vessels. Carnival ships tend to have pretty crappy interiors so that was probably a factor.

The Holiday went from Carnival to another line in 2009, despite being the same age then as Inspiration is today, having fewer balconies, and similar condition and interiors. So how were things different in that case?
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:57 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Also, why are the Costa NeoRomantica, Veendam, and Maasdam still going to another line when the Carnival Imagination and Inspiration that are a little newer are going to the scrapyard?


I don’t know, to answer that question you should talk to a shop broker. Chances are those vessels were a better fit and in better condition than the newer Carnival vessels. Carnival ships tend to have pretty crappy interiors so that was probably a factor.

The Holiday went from Carnival to another line in 2009, despite being the same age then as Inspiration is today, having fewer balconies, and similar condition and interiors. So how were things different in that case?


2009 has no global pandemic shutting down the globe and killing nearly all travel. Might be that.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:09 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Also, why are the Costa NeoRomantica, Veendam, and Maasdam still going to another line when the Carnival Imagination and Inspiration that are a little newer are going to the scrapyard?


I don’t know, to answer that question you should talk to a shop broker. Chances are those vessels were a better fit and in better condition than the newer Carnival vessels. Carnival ships tend to have pretty crappy interiors so that was probably a factor.

The Holiday went from Carnival to another line in 2009, despite being the same age then as Inspiration is today, having fewer balconies, and similar condition and interiors. So how were things different in that case?


That was 11 years ago.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:15 pm

bananaboy wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
I think that Celestyal Cruises or the Turkish line acquiring the Saga Sapphire would be good companies to operate the Costa Victoria.


No way is Costa Victoria suitable for Celestyal. It's much too big. Celestyal's largest ship is less than half this size. She wouldn't be able to offer the flexibility to get into the smaller Greek islands, part of what is unique about Celestyal. That, and the massive jump in capacity during a travel slump would mean they'd have to trash their yields to fill it. Won't happen.

I did hear rumors that Costa Victoria was scheduled to go to Jalesh Cruises as their second ship before COVID-19 as I know that they were planning to have a second ship by October before COVID-19. I have not been able to find any sources about Costa Victoria going to Jalesh though. Can anyone confirm if this was true or not?
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... tober.html
 
ltbewr
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:00 pm

Carnival to get rid of 18 of its oldest and least efficient ships, had $3 Billion loss in 3rd Qtr., bookings for 3rd Qtr. 2021 strong. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-carn ... SKBN2661PU
I wonder if any cruise lines have considered tapping into the Asian/China markets ?
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:12 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Carnival to get rid of 18 of its oldest and least efficient ships, had $3 Billion loss in 3rd Qtr., bookings for 3rd Qtr. 2021 strong. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-carn ... SKBN2661PU
I wonder if any cruise lines have considered tapping into the Asian/China markets ?

Carnival Corp, not Carnival Cruise...I was like "that's gonna leave Carnival with only the most recent deliveries".

So the departures will be spread across all the brands under the Carnival Corp.

I can see the remaining Fantasy class ships leaving, followed by the Destiny class ships (on the Carnival side). On Princess, Costa, and Holland America, there's plenty of tonnage to go through as well.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:28 pm

Quite a few of the Princess ships that have become quite tired looking are most likely to go . The good news is that Southampton is getting the new Sky Princess next year.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 pm

Update from Carnival


Image
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:11 pm

The Majesty of the Seas should be preserved as a hotel and museum ship rather than scrapped for a number of reasons. For one, Majesty of the Seas is the last remaining Sovereign class cruise ship, was one of the first with a multi deck atrium along with her sisters, was among the largest cruise ships afloat when she first entered service along with her sisters, has a stern inspired by the SS Normandie, has sleek classic lines, and was certainly a groundbreaking ship when it was first built. The Majesty of the Seas also helped to launch cruises to Cuba for Royal Caribbean and is the only ship in her class not transferred to Pullmantur. Potential places to preserve Majesty of the Seas include New York City, Miami, St.Nazaire, Oslo, Bergen, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonville, Pensacola, and Biloxi.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:40 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Majesty of the Seas should be preserved as a hotel and museum ship rather than scrapped for a number of reasons. For one, Majesty of the Seas is the last remaining Sovereign class cruise ship, was one of the first with a multi deck atrium along with her sisters, was among the largest cruise ships afloat when she first entered service along with her sisters, has a stern inspired by the SS Normandie, has sleek classic lines, and was certainly a groundbreaking ship when it was first built. The Majesty of the Seas also helped to launch cruises to Cuba for Royal Caribbean and is the only ship in her class not transferred to Pullmantur. Potential places to preserve Majesty of the Seas include New York City, Miami, St.Nazaire, Oslo, Bergen, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonville, Pensacola, and Biloxi.



None of those things make it worth saving. You also never specify what exactly these museums would be about

Honestly now, is there a single vessel you think should NOT be saved as hotel/museum ship?

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