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ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:59 am

A Jewish community has been opened on the historic ocean liner QE2 in Dubai. This comes as relations between the United Arab Emirates and Israel have been normalized and the community will include things like restaurants and synagogues. Very positive step for both Dubai and the QE2.
https://themedialine.org/headlines/jewi ... en-on-qe2/
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:32 pm

Here's What an Entire Cruise Fleet Sold for at Auction

The Cruise & Maritime Voyages fleet auction is over, with five ships heading to new owners or to scrap, and the values have finally been revealed as buyers were able to get cruise ships for pennies on the dollar during the sealed bidding process.

Vasco Da Gama
Built: 1992
Tonnage: 55,451
Capacity: 1,258 Guests
Buyer: Mystic Invest
Sales Price: $10,187,000
History: Originally operated by Holland America, the ship was built in 1992.

www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/ ... KjcUcmo0p8
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:55 am

The Pacific Dawn has been delivered to it's new owners for use as a crypto cruise ship off the coast of Panama. About 100 cabins have already been sold at auction and 777 could be filled. It will be very interesting to see how this venture will play out.
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... ction.html
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:22 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

It costs money to demo a building, shipwrecking on the other hand is a profitable business.

Why is shipbreaking a profitable business when building demolition is not like that?


Ships are more like aircraft, single materials used in structures, unlike buildings which have rebar inside concrete, glass, insulation, etc all in one mass and with less recycling value.

Ships tend to be primarily steel, with easily removed internals relatively... scrap steel is a known value, easy to sell on. Construction debris from buildings on the other hand is more limited, rebar has to be separated from concrete. Used concrete and much of the other things used in building goes as fill material at best.

Add the secondary recovery part (wiring, furnishings, electronics, engine/machinery parts, and so on) and the profits are much easier and higher for breaking up ships than bringing down buildings.

The availability of steel from the destroyed World Trade Center after 9/11 meant no additional cruise ships and ocean liners going to the scrapyard for a couple years.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:59 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The availability of steel from the destroyed World Trade Center after 9/11 meant no additional cruise ships and ocean liners going to the scrapyard for a couple years.


Say what ?

The two are in no way related and some ships were scrapped between 2001 and say 2004
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:05 am

SeaDream’s Caribbean Cruise: Champagne, Caviar and COVID-19

Witnessing the events unfold over the past week on the SeaDream 1 cruise ship seemed like watching a slow-motion train wreck.

In an article written by Doug Parker (of Cruise Radio fame) ten days ago, SeaDream Yacht Club officials said that “masks will not be required to be worn on the yacht, thanks to the extensive pre-departure testing designed to create a negative “bubble.” This immediately appeared to me to be a dangerous if not reckless marketing ploy which disregarded not only science and the best efforts of the joint Norwegian Cruise Line – Royal Caribbean Cruises “Healthy Sail” panel’s recommendations which had been adopted by the cruise industry’s trade organization Cruise Line International Association (CLIA).

www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/11/articles/ ... -covid-19/
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:21 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Why is shipbreaking a profitable business when building demolition is not like that?


Ships are more like aircraft, single materials used in structures, unlike buildings which have rebar inside concrete, glass, insulation, etc all in one mass and with less recycling value.

Ships tend to be primarily steel, with easily removed internals relatively... scrap steel is a known value, easy to sell on. Construction debris from buildings on the other hand is more limited, rebar has to be separated from concrete. Used concrete and much of the other things used in building goes as fill material at best.

Add the secondary recovery part (wiring, furnishings, electronics, engine/machinery parts, and so on) and the profits are much easier and higher for breaking up ships than bringing down buildings.

The availability of steel from the destroyed World Trade Center after 9/11 meant no additional cruise ships and ocean liners going to the scrapyard for a couple years.


You jumped the shark with this comment. There’s plenty of cruise ships going to the breakers, I suspect a hell of a lot more will be broken up before the Covid-19 crisis is finished.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:48 pm

Negative bubbles are theoretically possible. But with a chain of supplies/suppliers, deliverers, crew(and their families), medical contacts, immigration and customs contacts, all of the non-ship travel it begins to become impossible. Then there are the passengers ......
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:58 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
You jumped the shark with this comment. There’s plenty of cruise ships going to the breakers, I suspect a hell of a lot more will be broken up before the Covid-19 crisis is finished.


Unfortunately yes...

MS Marco Polo and MS Astor (Ex-CMV) have been auctioned and sold to scrappers by the receivers.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:36 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
You jumped the shark with this comment. There’s plenty of cruise ships going to the breakers, I suspect a hell of a lot more will be broken up before the Covid-19 crisis is finished.


Unfortunately yes...

MS Marco Polo and MS Astor (Ex-CMV) have been auctioned and sold to scrappers by the receivers.


Very sad end for such a great ship .

Image
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:56 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:

Ships are more like aircraft, single materials used in structures, unlike buildings which have rebar inside concrete, glass, insulation, etc all in one mass and with less recycling value.

Ships tend to be primarily steel, with easily removed internals relatively... scrap steel is a known value, easy to sell on. Construction debris from buildings on the other hand is more limited, rebar has to be separated from concrete. Used concrete and much of the other things used in building goes as fill material at best.

Add the secondary recovery part (wiring, furnishings, electronics, engine/machinery parts, and so on) and the profits are much easier and higher for breaking up ships than bringing down buildings.

The availability of steel from the destroyed World Trade Center after 9/11 meant no additional cruise ships and ocean liners going to the scrapyard for a couple years.


You jumped the shark with this comment. There’s plenty of cruise ships going to the breakers, I suspect a hell of a lot more will be broken up before the Covid-19 crisis is finished.
I believe he meant for a few years after 9/11, but he was wrong about that, also.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:37 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
You jumped the shark with this comment. There’s plenty of cruise ships going to the breakers, I suspect a hell of a lot more will be broken up before the Covid-19 crisis is finished.


Unfortunately yes...

MS Marco Polo and MS Astor (Ex-CMV) have been auctioned and sold to scrappers by the receivers.

The Albatross is becoming a floating boutique hotel in Hurghada, Egypt, so I could see a couple cruise ships retired due to COVID-19 becoming hotel and/or museum ships. The SS Rotterdam has becoming a successful tourist attraction in her namesake city and is the proper way of preserving an old ocean liner or cruise ship.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:43 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
You jumped the shark with this comment. There’s plenty of cruise ships going to the breakers, I suspect a hell of a lot more will be broken up before the Covid-19 crisis is finished.


Unfortunately yes...

MS Marco Polo and MS Astor (Ex-CMV) have been auctioned and sold to scrappers by the receivers.

The Albatross is becoming a floating boutique hotel in Hurghada, Egypt, so I could see a couple cruise ships retired due to COVID-19 becoming hotel and/or museum ships.


If any ship was going to be preserved the Marco Polo would be it, it's a liner and the last Soviet liner in service... and there was no interest in it from any buyers in the auction. It's not happening for the vast majority of retired cruise ships... it's the scrappers torch to end their careers.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:03 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
You jumped the shark with this comment. There’s plenty of cruise ships going to the breakers, I suspect a hell of a lot more will be broken up before the Covid-19 crisis is finished.


Unfortunately yes...

MS Marco Polo and MS Astor (Ex-CMV) have been auctioned and sold to scrappers by the receivers.

The Albatross is becoming a floating boutique hotel in Hurghada, Egypt, so I could see a couple cruise ships retired due to COVID-19 becoming hotel and/or museum ships. The SS Rotterdam has becoming a successful tourist attraction in her namesake city and is the proper way of preserving an old ocean liner or cruise ship.


There is no right or wrong way to dispose of an old unwanted vessel, there is only the most cost effective way. Keeping an old shop afloat just because isn’t a valid reason, look at the stupidity surrounding the SS United States, she should have been scrapped decades ago.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:25 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:

Unfortunately yes...

MS Marco Polo and MS Astor (Ex-CMV) have been auctioned and sold to scrappers by the receivers.

The Albatross is becoming a floating boutique hotel in Hurghada, Egypt, so I could see a couple cruise ships retired due to COVID-19 becoming hotel and/or museum ships.


If any ship was going to be preserved the Marco Polo would be it, it's a liner and the last Soviet liner in service... and there was no interest in it from any buyers in the auction. It's not happening for the vast majority of retired cruise ships... it's the scrappers torch to end their careers.

The demolition of old Penn Station in New York City back on 1964 led to a huge outcry and the creation of the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission that led to Grand Central Terminal and a number of other historically significant buildings from being demolished. Similar city, state, and national commissions were formed across the United States and the world because of this and also kept historically significant buildings from being demolished. So, I think this may be a wake-up call with a number of significant ships going to the scrapyard.
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:13 pm

While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:34 pm

johns624 wrote:
While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:45 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.
How many "people on the street" could name even one of those? Love Boat went off the air 33 years ago.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:56 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.


Well your list already points out that there isn't the interest... The original Love Boat (Pacific Princess No1) - scrapped,
Song of Norway - scrapped,
Sovereign on the beach in Aliaga, Monarch 30%+ gone next to it... one left.
Royal Viking Line? Why? Nothing that amazing or important there?
Carnival Destiny??? whats that one? The ship that was originally called Destiny is now in service as Sunshine?... If you wanted to preserve a Carnival ship the Holiday would of probably been it, and no it won't be, in fact if SeaJets decides the scrap her without even refit it won't surprise me.
Grand Princess no... again why? It's for all purposes just another cruise ship.
Voyager Class and Freedom Class... nothing is really historic.
And besides being huge why exactly would an Oasis class deserve preservation...

You really need to get off this track, yes some ships will be preserved, but by and large cruise ships are like Honda Civics or CRJs... unless they did something important historically (and even then) they are scrap material and nothing more when they reach the end of their lives.

I mean how many prototype airliners have been scrapped? Planes are much smaller and easier to preserve than cruise ships.

Like i said above of all the ships currently in line for the torch, the Marco Polo MIGHT be small enough and significant enough to save, but unless some Russian Oligarch has secretly bought it it's heading for the same beach in either India or Turkey as many of the others.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:02 am

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.
How many "people on the street" could name even one of those? Love Boat went off the air 33 years ago.



I had never even heard of the Love Boat until I was literally on a Princess ship.

I believe Archguys position is that if a ship was once significant (largest, most popular, etc) then it must remain significant forever. No one cares about the biggest ship once there’s a bigger one. No one cares in 2020 that a sitcom was filmed on this ship 40 years ago.

An old building can be saved because it can be repurposed. A ship, even if you turn it into the fabled hotel/museum ship...will always be a ship. And ships cost a fortune simply by existing.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:21 am

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.
How many "people on the street" could name even one of those? Love Boat went off the air 33 years ago.

Did the average person on the street know about the Queen Mary, RMS Queen Elizabeth, SS United States, SS Nieuw Amsterdam, SS Rotterdam, and SS Canberra back in the 1960's?
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:40 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.
How many "people on the street" could name even one of those? Love Boat went off the air 33 years ago.

Did the average person on the street know about the Queen Mary, RMS Queen Elizabeth, SS United States, SS Nieuw Amsterdam, SS Rotterdam, and SS Canberra back in the 1960's?
Yes. Many servicemen went to war on one of the Queens. Ocean liners were a mode of transportation back then.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:32 am

northstardc4m wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.


Well your list already points out that there isn't the interest... The original Love Boat (Pacific Princess No1) - scrapped,
Song of Norway - scrapped,
Sovereign on the beach in Aliaga, Monarch 30%+ gone next to it... one left.
Royal Viking Line? Why? Nothing that amazing or important there?
Carnival Destiny??? whats that one? The ship that was originally called Destiny is now in service as Sunshine?... If you wanted to preserve a Carnival ship the Holiday would of probably been it, and no it won't be, in fact if SeaJets decides the scrap her without even refit it won't surprise me.
Grand Princess no... again why? It's for all purposes just another cruise ship.
Voyager Class and Freedom Class... nothing is really historic.
And besides being huge why exactly would an Oasis class deserve preservation...

You really need to get off this track, yes some ships will be preserved, but by and large cruise ships are like Honda Civics or CRJs... unless they did something important historically (and even then) they are scrap material and nothing more when they reach the end of their lives.

I mean how many prototype airliners have been scrapped? Planes are much smaller and easier to preserve than cruise ships.

Like i said above of all the ships currently in line for the torch, the Marco Polo MIGHT be small enough and significant enough to save, but unless some Russian Oligarch has secretly bought it it's heading for the same beach in either India or Turkey as many of the others.

The MV Lydia, which is also known as the sand liner has become a popular hotel, casino, and tourist attraction in a town on the Mediterranean coast of France despite being unknown by most people, including many ship enthusiasts and the town is it located is unknown by the majority of the world. Lydia and the town the ship is located are even more likely to be unknown by the average person on the street that the ships that I am quoting in your post. Shows you that even something obscure can become a popular tourist attraction.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Moonta
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:07 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.


They’re all big white boxes that float, that’s all they are, how much do you think it would cost anyone to turn and later operate an Oasis class vessel and a museum and or hotel? If you want to stay on a cruise ship go on a cruise.
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:15 am

Royal Caribbean Sees 100,000 Sign Ups for Free Volunteer Cruises

Royal Caribbean International has over 100,000 form submissions for volunteers to take trial cruises as part of the CDC's new Conditional Framework to restart cruising in the United States.

Forms filled out required a person's name, phone number, email, Crown and Anchor Society number, and the number of people in a person's party, meaning the cruise line likely has upwards of 200,000 potential volunteers assuming each form submitted is for two people.

The news came via Royal Caribbean International President and CEO Michael Bayley in a Facebook post.

The company launched the effort on Nov. 12 via Facebook after mentioning they were considering having volunteers on Nov. 4.

www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/ ... uises.html
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:10 pm

FGITD wrote:
johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.
How many "people on the street" could name even one of those? Love Boat went off the air 33 years ago.



I had never even heard of the Love Boat until I was literally on a Princess ship.

I believe Archguys position is that if a ship was once significant (largest, most popular, etc) then it must remain significant forever. No one cares about the biggest ship once there’s a bigger one. No one cares in 2020 that a sitcom was filmed on this ship 40 years ago.

An old building can be saved because it can be repurposed. A ship, even if you turn it into the fabled hotel/museum ship...will always be a ship. And ships cost a fortune simply by existing.

How much does it cost to preserve a ship that is placed on dry land like the MV Doulos or MV Lydia?
 
FGITD
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:01 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
johns624 wrote:
How many "people on the street" could name even one of those? Love Boat went off the air 33 years ago.



I had never even heard of the Love Boat until I was literally on a Princess ship.

I believe Archguys position is that if a ship was once significant (largest, most popular, etc) then it must remain significant forever. No one cares about the biggest ship once there’s a bigger one. No one cares in 2020 that a sitcom was filmed on this ship 40 years ago.

An old building can be saved because it can be repurposed. A ship, even if you turn it into the fabled hotel/museum ship...will always be a ship. And ships cost a fortune simply by existing.

How much does it cost to preserve a ship that is placed on dry land like the MV Doulos or MV Lydia?


How should I know? I work in airline operations. Moving derelict ships on land is slightly outside my scope of duties.

That said, given the distinct lack of old ships brought on land and turned into casinos etc...I’d say it’s likely prohibitively expensive
 
johns624
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:14 pm

The only ship in the US that I'm aware of as being "drydocked", is the Huron Lightship in Port Huron. I believe in its case, they dug a small inlet in the St Clair River, floated it in, built a cofferdam, pumped out the water and filled it with dirt. It's a relatively small ship, though.
https://www.phmuseum.org/huron-light-ship-museum/
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:10 pm

johns624 wrote:
The only ship in the US that I'm aware of as being "drydocked", is the Huron Lightship in Port Huron. I believe in its case, they dug a small inlet in the St Clair River, floated it in, built a cofferdam, pumped out the water and filled it with dirt. It's a relatively small ship, though.
https://www.phmuseum.org/huron-light-ship-museum/


In Sweden the only larger ship that I know of is drydocked is warship Vasa but it's almost 400 years old now and unique given the combination of age and size, not to mention history. There are no preserved cruise ships though and like Kiwrob says there are several hundred cruiseships who all look the same.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
bennett123
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:42 pm

So far, the following have been scrapped this year;

Monarch of the Seas
Sovereign of the Seas
Costa Victoria
Carnival Fantasy
Carnival Inspiration
Carnival Imagination

All built between 1991-1996.

Clearly a lot of ships of this age are not going to survive.

All of the above are over 70,000 tons, so possibly more future for smaller ships.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:03 pm

bennett123 wrote:
So far, the following have been scrapped this year;

Monarch of the Seas
Sovereign of the Seas
Costa Victoria
Carnival Fantasy
Carnival Inspiration
Carnival Imagination

All built between 1991-1996.

Clearly a lot of ships of this age are not going to survive.

All of the above are over 70,000 tons, so possibly more future for smaller ships.

What are the factors distinguishing the MV Doulos that led to that ship being preserved as a boutique hotel?
 
bennett123
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:28 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Doulos_Phos

I have never said that no cruise ships have ever been converted into hotels.

What I dispute is that this whole lot;

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.

Can or should be retained.
 
bananaboy
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:08 am

OA260 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
You jumped the shark with this comment. There’s plenty of cruise ships going to the breakers, I suspect a hell of a lot more will be broken up before the Covid-19 crisis is finished.


Unfortunately yes...

MS Marco Polo and MS Astor (Ex-CMV) have been auctioned and sold to scrappers by the receivers.


Very sad end for such a great ship .

Image


Indeed. Been reminiscing with some former colleagues from Orient Lines. Nothing fancy about her. Just some nice lounges, lovely teak decks, comfortable accommodation and, from my experience, great food and service. She felt like an old slipper, nothing to show off but instantly comfortable. I think she was the third ship I sailed on and will always have some great memories.
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
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OA260
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:44 pm

Marella Dream is heading to the scrap yard

Image
view screen size
 
bennett123
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:29 pm

 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:16 pm

johns624 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
How many "people on the street" could name even one of those? Love Boat went off the air 33 years ago.

Did the average person on the street know about the Queen Mary, RMS Queen Elizabeth, SS United States, SS Nieuw Amsterdam, SS Rotterdam, and SS Canberra back in the 1960's?
Yes. Many servicemen went to war on one of the Queens. Ocean liners were a mode of transportation back then.

How old would the average person on the street have to be to know about the Queen Mary and especially the RMS Queen Elizabeth, SS Canberra, SS United States, SS Nieuw Amsterdam, and SS Rotterdam?
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 756
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:46 pm

Archie, I do wonder if maybe a shipping forum is more your scene? I mean, we're aviation nerds here that sometimes dabble in chatting about cruise ships. You ask things that many of us won't know.

http://forum.shipspotting.com/
Last edited by BlueberryWheats on Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
bennett123
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:52 pm

Incidentally that site confirms the fate of Marella Dream.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:56 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
How old would the average person on the street have to be to know about the Queen Mary and especially the RMS Queen Elizabeth, SS Canberra, SS United States, SS Nieuw Amsterdam, and SS Rotterdam?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORV5kDKn_c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4W09a_dtLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2t31BV-vOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32vIBdc23pg

Before television, people came to movie theatres to watch the news. British Pathé was at the forefront of cinematic journalism, blending information with entertainment to popular effect. Over the course of a century, it documented everything from major armed conflicts and seismic political crises to the curious hobbies and eccentric lives of ordinary people. If it happened, British Pathé filmed it.


https://www.youtube.com/c/britishpathe/about

Add to that news paper articles and most people would have heard about those ships. Allot of it was also about being the fastest ship doing the Blue Ribbon
which generated attention and there weren't that many "cruise ships" back then. Also the ships you mention are not cruise ships but rather ocean liners.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:00 pm

bennett123 wrote:
http://www.anchorshipbroking.gr/uploads/WEEKLY%20MARKET%20REPORT%20WK46.pdf

Confirmed P4.
According to that the Celebration is indeed going for scrap, yet the owners have denied it is... Hmm.

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1910
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:07 pm

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
How old would the average person on the street have to be to know about the Queen Mary and especially the RMS Queen Elizabeth, SS Canberra, SS United States, SS Nieuw Amsterdam, and SS Rotterdam?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORV5kDKn_c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4W09a_dtLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2t31BV-vOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32vIBdc23pg

Before television, people came to movie theatres to watch the news. British Pathé was at the forefront of cinematic journalism, blending information with entertainment to popular effect. Over the course of a century, it documented everything from major armed conflicts and seismic political crises to the curious hobbies and eccentric lives of ordinary people. If it happened, British Pathé filmed it.


https://www.youtube.com/c/britishpathe/about

Add to that news paper articles and most people would have heard about those ships. Allot of it was also about being the fastest ship doing the Blue Ribbon
which generated attention and there weren't that many "cruise ships" back then. Also the ships you mention are not cruise ships but rather ocean liners.

Would someone have to be between 50 and 70 years of age to know about those liners?
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1910
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:05 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
http://www.anchorshipbroking.gr/uploads/WEEKLY%20MARKET%20REPORT%20WK46.pdf

Confirmed P4.
According to that the Celebration is indeed going for scrap, yet the owners have denied it is... Hmm.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

That is the Grand Celebration for Bahamas Paradise Cruises going to Alang for scrap.
https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2020/11/a ... crap-yard/
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1910
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:30 am

Back in October, the Celebrity Apex was met by a number of it's fleetmates on it's arrival in North America and this is very fitting amid COVID-19.
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/crui ... -apex.html
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13494
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:53 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.


Well your list already points out that there isn't the interest... The original Love Boat (Pacific Princess No1) - scrapped,
Song of Norway - scrapped,
Sovereign on the beach in Aliaga, Monarch 30%+ gone next to it... one left.
Royal Viking Line? Why? Nothing that amazing or important there?
Carnival Destiny??? whats that one? The ship that was originally called Destiny is now in service as Sunshine?... If you wanted to preserve a Carnival ship the Holiday would of probably been it, and no it won't be, in fact if SeaJets decides the scrap her without even refit it won't surprise me.
Grand Princess no... again why? It's for all purposes just another cruise ship.
Voyager Class and Freedom Class... nothing is really historic.
And besides being huge why exactly would an Oasis class deserve preservation...

You really need to get off this track, yes some ships will be preserved, but by and large cruise ships are like Honda Civics or CRJs... unless they did something important historically (and even then) they are scrap material and nothing more when they reach the end of their lives.

I mean how many prototype airliners have been scrapped? Planes are much smaller and easier to preserve than cruise ships.

Like i said above of all the ships currently in line for the torch, the Marco Polo MIGHT be small enough and significant enough to save, but unless some Russian Oligarch has secretly bought it it's heading for the same beach in either India or Turkey as many of the others.

The MV Lydia, which is also known as the sand liner has become a popular hotel, casino, and tourist attraction in a town on the Mediterranean coast of France despite being unknown by most people, including many ship enthusiasts and the town is it located is unknown by the majority of the world. Lydia and the town the ship is located are even more likely to be unknown by the average person on the street that the ships that I am quoting in your post. Shows you that even something obscure can become a popular tourist attraction.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Moonta


MV Lydia was never hotel, she was a casino, which she isn't anymore. Now she's just a derelict old ship that's been pulled out of the water. Lots of people have stupid ideas, this was one of them.
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13494
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:04 am

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
How old would the average person on the street have to be to know about the Queen Mary and especially the RMS Queen Elizabeth, SS Canberra, SS United States, SS Nieuw Amsterdam, and SS Rotterdam?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORV5kDKn_c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4W09a_dtLo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2t31BV-vOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32vIBdc23pg

Before television, people came to movie theatres to watch the news. British Pathé was at the forefront of cinematic journalism, blending information with entertainment to popular effect. Over the course of a century, it documented everything from major armed conflicts and seismic political crises to the curious hobbies and eccentric lives of ordinary people. If it happened, British Pathé filmed it.


https://www.youtube.com/c/britishpathe/about

Add to that news paper articles and most people would have heard about those ships. Allot of it was also about being the fastest ship doing the Blue Ribbon
which generated attention and there weren't that many "cruise ships" back then. Also the ships you mention are not cruise ships but rather ocean liners.


Also the British, Dutch and Americans don't have the ability to build large passenger vessels anymore. There was a lot of national pride in these vessels, there isn't today.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2234
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:45 pm

How to paralell park your cruise ferry for dummies v.1.0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWZjU310ZAU

Viking Line cruise ferry Viking Grace ran aground just outside Mariehamn harbour two days ago.

Viking Grace ran aground off the coast of Mariehamn in the Åland Islands around 2pm on Saturday. Passengers were not in any immediate danger,
according to ferry company Viking Line and the West Finland Coast Guard.

The ship, which can carry up to 2,800 people, had 331 passengers and 98 crew members on board at the time of the accident.

The accidents occurred just half a kilometre from the Mariehamn habour.


https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/viki ... s/11659973
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
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northstardc4m
Posts: 3455
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Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:36 am

The MV Astor has been beached in Aliaga...

https://youtu.be/P9cW48p6yDU

Another one down :(

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
ArchGuy1
Posts: 1910
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:19 am

northstardc4m wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
While some ocean liners may be "significant", has there ever been a cruise ship that was?

The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.


Well your list already points out that there isn't the interest... The original Love Boat (Pacific Princess No1) - scrapped,
Song of Norway - scrapped,
Sovereign on the beach in Aliaga, Monarch 30%+ gone next to it... one left.
Royal Viking Line? Why? Nothing that amazing or important there?
Carnival Destiny??? whats that one? The ship that was originally called Destiny is now in service as Sunshine?... If you wanted to preserve a Carnival ship the Holiday would of probably been it, and no it won't be, in fact if SeaJets decides the scrap her without even refit it won't surprise me.
Grand Princess no... again why? It's for all purposes just another cruise ship.
Voyager Class and Freedom Class... nothing is really historic.
And besides being huge why exactly would an Oasis class deserve preservation...

You really need to get off this track, yes some ships will be preserved, but by and large cruise ships are like Honda Civics or CRJs... unless they did something important historically (and even then) they are scrap material and nothing more when they reach the end of their lives.

I mean how many prototype airliners have been scrapped? Planes are much smaller and easier to preserve than cruise ships.

Like i said above of all the ships currently in line for the torch, the Marco Polo MIGHT be small enough and significant enough to save, but unless some Russian Oligarch has secretly bought it it's heading for the same beach in either India or Turkey as many of the others.

Why are buildings easier to preserve than cruise ships, even the buildings that are larger than cruise ships?
 
IH8BY
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:39 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:14 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
northstardc4m wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The Love Boat ships, Song of Norway, Sovereign class ships, Royal Viking Line ships Carnival Destiny, Grand Princess, Voyager class ships, Freedom class ships, and definitely the Oasis class ships are/were historically significant.


Well your list already points out that there isn't the interest... The original Love Boat (Pacific Princess No1) - scrapped,
Song of Norway - scrapped,
Sovereign on the beach in Aliaga, Monarch 30%+ gone next to it... one left.
Royal Viking Line? Why? Nothing that amazing or important there?
Carnival Destiny??? whats that one? The ship that was originally called Destiny is now in service as Sunshine?... If you wanted to preserve a Carnival ship the Holiday would of probably been it, and no it won't be, in fact if SeaJets decides the scrap her without even refit it won't surprise me.
Grand Princess no... again why? It's for all purposes just another cruise ship.
Voyager Class and Freedom Class... nothing is really historic.
And besides being huge why exactly would an Oasis class deserve preservation...

You really need to get off this track, yes some ships will be preserved, but by and large cruise ships are like Honda Civics or CRJs... unless they did something important historically (and even then) they are scrap material and nothing more when they reach the end of their lives.

I mean how many prototype airliners have been scrapped? Planes are much smaller and easier to preserve than cruise ships.

Like i said above of all the ships currently in line for the torch, the Marco Polo MIGHT be small enough and significant enough to save, but unless some Russian Oligarch has secretly bought it it's heading for the same beach in either India or Turkey as many of the others.

Why are buildings easier to preserve than cruise ships, even the buildings that are larger than cruise ships?


Compare a hotel on land with a cruise ship. The cruise ship has to do everything that the hotel on land has to do, but it also has to
    be not just seaworthy, but comfortable at sea
    contain *all* the amenities that its customers need, including the capacity to feed and entertain them all the time, plus deal with their waste!
    contain accommodation for all the staff
    have a technically skilled workforce dedicated to operating and maintaining it 24/7
    have a higher level of resistance to fire, flooding and other risks that would be far easier to deal with on land
and many other things

In addition the specific constraints of the ship make restoring/preserving more difficult. Small spaces, bespoke materials, fire/waterproofing concerns, accessibility, but also in older ships materials that are now known to be hazardous e.g. asbestos. All of this costs money. In addition, if the ship is putting to sea it has to comply with additional regulations including SOLAS. As the ships get older, the harder that becomes.

So you can potentially do it, but it's got to be worth it. As a preserved attraction will it offer something that people can't get elsewhere? I've happily visited the warship HMS Belfast in London because it offers me an opportunity to see and experience something I could never otherwise imagine. I would visit a preserved ocean liner like Queen Mary because it's a window into an era I never saw - though you can't have a Queen Mary in every town. You could probably tempt me to stay on the Rotterdam, but only if I happened to be going to Rotterdam anyway.

Would I travel to visit a preserved modern era Carnival cruise liner when I could probably get an actual cruise on a larger, but otherwise similar, ship for maybe as little as $200? Probably not, and I have an interest in ships. It's not enough to warrant preserving all of them, and who's to say which is to be preserved? The odd one, defining of its era, maybe - but you can't preserve them all. Unlike cars, to a certain extent every ship is individual so it's harder to let go, but even at a time where tourism reappears and we don't face economic crisis only a few will survive.
Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15716
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Cruise Ship / Ocean Liner Thread - 2020

Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:48 pm

In the USA, we are seeing increased 'soft' ads for cruises, likely to promote bookings for in mid to late 2021 as vaccines will be out and largely distributed here by then. No doubt there will be a lot of pent up and delayed demand for cruises, only tempered by the large numbers of people who were out of work who won't be able to afford to take a cruise.

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