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olle
Posts: 1883
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:55 pm

This might change after brexit. UK has so far been avoiding any action that might not seen as welcome in Washington.

Big part of the special relationship has been for UK to delay or even veto any change that they do not like.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:09 pm

anrec80 wrote:
EU is growing this pair too slowly, unfortunately.


Yeah, well at least it's growing and not shrinking.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
anrec80
Posts: 2720
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:11 pm

sonicruiser wrote:
anrec80 wrote:
EU is growing this pair too slowly, unfortunately.


Yeah, well at least it's growing and not shrinking.


And nonetheless, the results of this growing are yet to be seen.
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5463
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:04 am

sonicruiser wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How is the shoot down of an airliner 800 miles from the the missile strike on Soleimani, days later a foreseeable outcome. There’s no connection there. Oh, BTW, why would a Iranian 2-star commander of IRGC even be in Iraq in violation of sanctions?


No connection? The fact that we're discussing a shootdown in Tehran in the same thread as a strike on Soleimani speaks volumes.


Was Tehran under attack? Was there an air attack warning? Was the airliner actually inbound TOWARD Tehran? No, to all of the above.

I was promised WW III, oil at $100+ a barrel, wiped out bases in Iraq, the Straits of Hormuz mined and closed; an aircraft carrier sunk. What?
Last edited by GalaxyFlyer on Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:08 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Was Tehran under attack? Was there an air attack warning? Was the airliner actually inbound TOWARD Tehran? No, to all of the above.


Did the US kill 25 Iraqis resulting in the destruction of the US embassy? Did the US assassinate Qassem Soleimani? Did Trump threaten 52 cultural sites in Iran? Yes to all of the above, that's what I thought.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:14 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
sonicruiser wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How is the shoot down of an airliner 800 miles from the the missile strike on Soleimani, days later a foreseeable outcome. There’s no connection there. Oh, BTW, why would a Iranian 2-star commander of IRGC even be in Iraq in violation of sanctions?


No connection? The fact that we're discussing a shootdown in Tehran in the same thread as a strike on Soleimani speaks volumes.



I was promised WW III, oil at $100+ a barrel, wiped out bases in Iraq, the Straits of Hormuz mined and closed; an aircraft carrier sunk. What?


Yes, WW III did not came, so we need to guess why it did not come.

Most of them believe in 7 or 8 years the world is going to end because of Climate change anyways so just let it end with WWIII.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22170
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:06 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
How is the shoot down of an airliner 800 miles from the the missile strike on Soleimani, days later a foreseeable outcome. There’s no connection there. Oh, BTW, why would a Iranian 2-star commander of IRGC even be in Iraq in violation of sanctions?


Iran said there would be retaliation. Actual American military personnel with actual facts and actual reason saw what was coming after the brain dead decision to assassinate the Iranian general and Iraqi military leaders. That jetliner shot down was an accident. Iran has admitted that. The jet was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those killings happen all the time in the United States and no one bats an eye.

No missile would have been launched at all if the missile would not have been launched toward Baghdad airport by the American military.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13365
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:14 am

seb146 wrote:
The jet was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those killings happen all the time in the United States and no one bats an eye.



I am sorry but I am going to have to ask for clarification and sources for this one or please retract this horrendous, irresponsible statement.
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
User avatar
CitizenJustin
Posts: 611
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:12 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Millions of people came out for the funeral of Lt. General Qassam Soleimani on Monday across Iran and Iraq from Baghdad, Karbala, Najaf, Ahvaz, Mashhad, and finally Tehran where he was given his final Janaza prayers.

https://www.axios.com/qasem-soleimani-i ... 3e8ba.html

https://time.com/5759506/qasem-soleiman ... owds-weep/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/kham ... neral-iran

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/huge ... s-n1111036

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image




The ignorant masses glorifying an evil man. That’s what I see. Nothing more.
 
agill
Posts: 1061
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:55 am

Well now Iran har admitted to shooting down the airliner.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1ZA04Y
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:36 am

IMHO, the US bears no responsibility for Iran mistakenly shooting down the aircraft, however, something like this was completely predictable as an unintentional knock-on, or as Rumsfeld would have called it; “an unknown, known”. When we amp up the situation mistakes get made and innocent people get hurt and killed. This is EXACTLY why extreme caution must be exercised when using our military might.

It’s especially disturbing when we have a POTUS with ZERO impulse control or strategy in mind other than Trump was trying to one-up Obama by assassinating the General. This is why Trump was shocked when the American people found his actions reckless and that no one was buying that Soleimani‘s assassination was necessary because some mythical “imminent attack” was forthcoming. It’s pretty hard to overlook that team Trump had an 800 version Facebook ad blitz running within hours of the attack. Trump didn’t have time to call the Gang of 8, but he sure had time to give his campaign staff a heads up before the attack was made.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show ... paign-tool
 
BN747
Posts: 7678
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:16 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Sure I welcome the debate too.

As for Iraq, believe me when I tell you I agree it was a horrible mistake going after Saddam. I wouldn't have done that, and that led to many of the many issues the region has today. I would have left Saddam there and Mubarak and Qaddafi too. Which to many Iranians getting Saddam out was a welcoming event, they hated him for ever, not only for the war but for a lot of reasons as well. This helped Iran step into the vacuum left by getting Saddam out.

In turn Iraq has had Pro-Iranian governments ever since, and that's one of the unfortunate results of the 2003 war.

Many mistakes in the US side no doubt, as well as the Iranian nuclear deal, another mistake. Bush, Obama and now Trump is left here as the saviour trying to take us out of these stupid wars and accords which made no sense.

Trusting Iran whom for decades have wanted to export their revolution across the region, funding terrorism even before the US stepped foot in Iraq.

Now I wont ever say, lets give 'human right's priority and such, you can't force things to other nations, I believe the US can't be isolationist but also can't be involved in multiple quagmires that can't get out of.

Now lets keep hearing the same argument, US bad, Iran good. I am sure most people here in the US who say this (which are a lot) are willing to take a one way ticket to those nations... lets see how they do.

Well after the invasion of Iraq, what more could one expect? Unrealistic to think that Iraqis would welcome a foreign invasion that destroyed their country. I spoke to an Iraqi medical student that I was giving a lift to here in Russia through BlaBlaCar and we had a nice 2 hour chat. Let's just say he wasn't the greatest fan of the U.S. Obviously he blamed the U.S. for all problems, be it what the U.S. invasion brought on or whatever issues those guys had in the past. So it isn't hard to figure that they would be pro-any force that is against the U.S., it just happened to be the Iranians. As you noticed, it was the U.S.' own actions that raised Iran's influence in the area. Before that they weren't having much luck finding followers. Now they have millions.

As far as human rights go, thats their internal matter, as far as I am concerned. What they do in their home is their business. I have worked the last 2,5 years in the ME and learnt and respected the fact that they do it their own way, they have their culture and their religion. Yeah, I wasn't too happy having to wear pants rather than shorts when it was +50 in Khartoum, but thats their way and I didn't say anything about it. I do have an issue though when people from the ME come to Russia or Canada and are upset that women dress so freely/you can buy booze anywhere/etc. Don't like it? Go to where you came from. I don't go to your home saying how you should live, please do the same with my home. One of the reasons I left Canada actually. Christmas Tree = Holiday Tree? Get real! Many problems here, butt least here in Russia people don't bend over like they do back in Canada not to "offend" someone that is really pushing the limits.

But I can, as an observer see the whole situation developing and see that U.S. is in the wrong and Iran is in the right. I am not saying anyone from either side should emmigrate anywhere or something else. You have two sides and regardless of their own domestic problems, one side is clearly playing it's cards wrong. In my opinion.


Iraq was a mistake.

And the current administration is not seeking regime change in Iran. The main issue here is how Iran has been for decades playing evil around the region, and everyone knows that, funding terrorist organizations, the war in Yemen, etc. They really want to be a regional player, and I am sure you know the US is not their main enemy there. We did the job of removing an enemy they had in Iraq, but their plan goes far ahead than that, and you know what I mean with KSA.

Iran is a murderous and terrorist regime. The dictatorship is clinging to power as much as they can, they could fall without the US having to do the same as what they did in Iraq. And most Americans' don't want any involvement nor any more wars, I could attest to that.

What we did with the General is I think the way forward into deterrence, and I am sure the Ayatollahs got the message.


You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:44 pm

BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Well after the invasion of Iraq, what more could one expect? Unrealistic to think that Iraqis would welcome a foreign invasion that destroyed their country. I spoke to an Iraqi medical student that I was giving a lift to here in Russia through BlaBlaCar and we had a nice 2 hour chat. Let's just say he wasn't the greatest fan of the U.S. Obviously he blamed the U.S. for all problems, be it what the U.S. invasion brought on or whatever issues those guys had in the past. So it isn't hard to figure that they would be pro-any force that is against the U.S., it just happened to be the Iranians. As you noticed, it was the U.S.' own actions that raised Iran's influence in the area. Before that they weren't having much luck finding followers. Now they have millions.

As far as human rights go, thats their internal matter, as far as I am concerned. What they do in their home is their business. I have worked the last 2,5 years in the ME and learnt and respected the fact that they do it their own way, they have their culture and their religion. Yeah, I wasn't too happy having to wear pants rather than shorts when it was +50 in Khartoum, but thats their way and I didn't say anything about it. I do have an issue though when people from the ME come to Russia or Canada and are upset that women dress so freely/you can buy booze anywhere/etc. Don't like it? Go to where you came from. I don't go to your home saying how you should live, please do the same with my home. One of the reasons I left Canada actually. Christmas Tree = Holiday Tree? Get real! Many problems here, butt least here in Russia people don't bend over like they do back in Canada not to "offend" someone that is really pushing the limits.

But I can, as an observer see the whole situation developing and see that U.S. is in the wrong and Iran is in the right. I am not saying anyone from either side should emmigrate anywhere or something else. You have two sides and regardless of their own domestic problems, one side is clearly playing it's cards wrong. In my opinion.


Iraq was a mistake.

And the current administration is not seeking regime change in Iran. The main issue here is how Iran has been for decades playing evil around the region, and everyone knows that, funding terrorist organizations, the war in Yemen, etc. They really want to be a regional player, and I am sure you know the US is not their main enemy there. We did the job of removing an enemy they had in Iraq, but their plan goes far ahead than that, and you know what I mean with KSA.

Iran is a murderous and terrorist regime. The dictatorship is clinging to power as much as they can, they could fall without the US having to do the same as what they did in Iraq. And most Americans' don't want any involvement nor any more wars, I could attest to that.

What we did with the General is I think the way forward into deterrence, and I am sure the Ayatollahs got the message.


You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747


I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11748
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:57 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Iraq was a mistake.

And the current administration is not seeking regime change in Iran. The main issue here is how Iran has been for decades playing evil around the region, and everyone knows that, funding terrorist organizations, the war in Yemen, etc. They really want to be a regional player, and I am sure you know the US is not their main enemy there. We did the job of removing an enemy they had in Iraq, but their plan goes far ahead than that, and you know what I mean with KSA.

Iran is a murderous and terrorist regime. The dictatorship is clinging to power as much as they can, they could fall without the US having to do the same as what they did in Iraq. And most Americans' don't want any involvement nor any more wars, I could attest to that.

What we did with the General is I think the way forward into deterrence, and I am sure the Ayatollahs got the message.


You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747


I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.


More endless non sequitur, strawmen, and bifurcation fallacy. How can anyone continue a discussion with this level of illogical reasoning?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BN747
Posts: 7678
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747


I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.


More endless non sequitur, strawmen, and bifurcation fallacy. How can anyone continue a discussion with this level of illogical reasoning?


I know huh?
"The killing of the Gen. gave trump a Big win"....outside the Fox News/Sean Hannity sphere, no one sees than other than a colossal f*k up as expected from an amateur.


Is this Mike Drop's new outfit?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:26 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Iraq was a mistake.

And the current administration is not seeking regime change in Iran. The main issue here is how Iran has been for decades playing evil around the region, and everyone knows that, funding terrorist organizations, the war in Yemen, etc. They really want to be a regional player, and I am sure you know the US is not their main enemy there. We did the job of removing an enemy they had in Iraq, but their plan goes far ahead than that, and you know what I mean with KSA.

Iran is a murderous and terrorist regime. The dictatorship is clinging to power as much as they can, they could fall without the US having to do the same as what they did in Iraq. And most Americans' don't want any involvement nor any more wars, I could attest to that.

What we did with the General is I think the way forward into deterrence, and I am sure the Ayatollahs got the message.


You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747


I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.

Really? I heard of a TON of pushback when President Obama did that. I still hear it to this day!

In fact, I'd say (at least from what I saw) it started the whole suspicion of the US' drone strategy and usage.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:42 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747


I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.


More endless non sequitur, strawmen, and bifurcation fallacy. How can anyone continue a discussion with this level of illogical reasoning?


What exactly its illogical?

The man was behind an attack on an embassy, which is an act of war.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:44 pm

BN747 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.


More endless non sequitur, strawmen, and bifurcation fallacy. How can anyone continue a discussion with this level of illogical reasoning?


I know huh?
"The killing of the Gen. gave trump a Big win"....outside the Fox News/Sean Hannity sphere, no one sees than other than a colossal f*k up as expected from an amateur.


Is this Mike Drop's new outfit?

BN747


F*up? really I woke up today and all I see is Iran's own doing by downing a civilian aircraft. The rest of the world is as if nothing happened.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:46 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747


I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.

Really? I heard of a TON of pushback when President Obama did that. I still hear it to this day!

In fact, I'd say (at least from what I saw) it started the whole suspicion of the US' drone strategy and usage.


Not the same pushback, of those today criticizing Trump for killing the General, those same dems mostly stayed quiet when Obama killed the terrorist US citizen.

In fact as for drone attacks, Trump has done a lot fewer than Obama or Bush for that matter. Yet they seem to find trouble with each and everyone.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
BN747
Posts: 7678
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:00 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.

Really? I heard of a TON of pushback when President Obama did that. I still hear it to this day!

In fact, I'd say (at least from what I saw) it started the whole suspicion of the US' drone strategy and usage.


Not the same pushback, of those today criticizing Trump for killing the General, those same dems mostly stayed quiet when Obama killed the terrorist US citizen.

In fact as for drone attacks, Trump has done a lot fewer than Obama or Bush for that matter. Yet they seem to find trouble with each and everyone.


This person..joined A.net 'yesterday'...and chatting like Chatty Kathy never could, we've seen this act before - what name were you before yesterday?

Or did the Russian Troll factory reassign you?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22170
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:52 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The jet was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those killings happen all the time in the United States and no one bats an eye.



I am sorry but I am going to have to ask for clarification and sources for this one or please retract this horrendous, irresponsible statement.


Which statement? That Iran admitted it mistakenly shot down the jet or that people are in the wrong place at the wrong time?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iran ... e-n1113996
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:59 pm

BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
Really? I heard of a TON of pushback when President Obama did that. I still hear it to this day!

In fact, I'd say (at least from what I saw) it started the whole suspicion of the US' drone strategy and usage.


Not the same pushback, of those today criticizing Trump for killing the General, those same dems mostly stayed quiet when Obama killed the terrorist US citizen.

In fact as for drone attacks, Trump has done a lot fewer than Obama or Bush for that matter. Yet they seem to find trouble with each and everyone.


This person..joined A.net 'yesterday'...and chatting like Chatty Kathy never could, we've seen this act before - what name were you before yesterday?

Or did the Russian Troll factory reassign you?

BN747


Once you have ran out of arguments, the personal attacks and the 'Russian troll' accusation starts.

I was in this forums more than 10 years ago... but I am new.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22170
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:02 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Iraq was a mistake.

And the current administration is not seeking regime change in Iran. The main issue here is how Iran has been for decades playing evil around the region, and everyone knows that, funding terrorist organizations, the war in Yemen, etc. They really want to be a regional player, and I am sure you know the US is not their main enemy there. We did the job of removing an enemy they had in Iraq, but their plan goes far ahead than that, and you know what I mean with KSA.

Iran is a murderous and terrorist regime. The dictatorship is clinging to power as much as they can, they could fall without the US having to do the same as what they did in Iraq. And most Americans' don't want any involvement nor any more wars, I could attest to that.

What we did with the General is I think the way forward into deterrence, and I am sure the Ayatollahs got the message.


You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747


I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.


The drone strike in Yemen was aimed at an al-Qaida leader. There were reports the Americans killed were working with al-Qaida in Yemen. But, when it was found there were American casualties, Republicans rushed to the defense of the terrorists and mourned over them. The same way Republicans are saying is happening with Democrats now.

In short: when Republicans do it, it is fine. When Democrats do the exact same thing, they should be silenced.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:04 pm

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:

You're doing a great job hawking trump talking points and spewing all this propaganda about Iran and ignoring certain facts...
The problem lies in the details.
1 - Gen Soliemani was also a high ranking political figure - and we took it upon ourselves 'to without permission step onto our allies soil and assasinate 'their'neighbor in their front yard.
That is wrong on a 1000 levels.

And along with inserting ourselves into the longstanding Shiite vs Sunni rivalry with this assassination.

2 - Where was this idea cooked up?

Not in DC. Not the situation war room.

In Mar-a-Lago...where anyone 'wanted or not' can be found floundering about.
---------------Now having said that... let's test out your awareness levels on American Greed and Criminality in the highest echelons of gov't.

Cheney managed to pull off the Halliburton/Iraq ripoffs without hardly anyone noticing (easy peasy - frighten the media). Plus Cheney was smart, not an idiot.

Every knows trump loves money more than life itself, so it begs to ask..what will he not do for a blank check with unlimited zeros?

Try this on for size...

Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman knows trumps GREED far far better than any of us ever could. He's on speed dial...you are not.

What would be BIGGEST in your facejab Saudi Arabia could deliver to arch enemy Iran? How about getting their USA pals to eliminate Iran's Top military Commander and they walk away with clean hands. "Who, us? We were quietly dining with Jared Kushner..

Yep, the silent guy in the background whom no one has seen nor heard from in weeks except his secret meetings in Saudi Arabia to solve the Middle East Peace deal...or was he arranging the payment transfer for the hired hit job on Soliemani?

Crooked AF Prince Salman (Sunni) paid trump via their many ways to launder money, $1 Billion to take Soliemani (Shiite) out? Or was $10 Billion?
The coup of the century if that came to light.

And not a single person here can place any of these individuals beyond reproach in a scheme of this nature.

Is trump above that level of malfeasance - absolutely NOT!!! Is Salman....? Hell no!
Is Prince Salman that low of a skunk to play on and take the advantage our president's ignorance and devotion to criminal conduct and only in it to give chase to the $1 Billion?

trump would not need a second to think on that proposition.

During the WH Intel briefing where Sen. Mike Lee R-UT came away pissed that the 'Imminent threat' was non-existent and how vague and ambiguous the details were on the lead up to to kill this man.

This is why no one in their right mind would trust a word from trump's mouth. MBS is smarter than he is and there is no bigger benefactor than Salman himself - if there is one name him/her.

This is the perfect political world to do things No One would believe that could happen...and yet, the Idiot president delivers shocking conduct daily...

I have to go with the shadiness of that 'no-reason for the killing briefing (which had zero substantiation), it's hatching at Mar-a-Lago, the various excuses given and even the ever changing 'imminent danger' story...these criminals just hired the US to execute a man with no reason other than money, just like something El Chapo or any other street thug would do.

And we feel head over heels for it.

Now, just for a moment imagine being an Iraqi or an Iranian...and watching this all unfold before your very eyes...how does the US look to you regardless of who/how Soliemani was killed.

Not so good.

That 'briefing' is far less plausible than the scenario I suggested just now, Occam's Razor applies perfectly!

BN747


I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.


The drone strike in Yemen was aimed at an al-Qaida leader. There were reports the Americans killed were working with al-Qaida in Yemen. But, when it was found there were American casualties, Republicans rushed to the defense of the terrorists and mourned over them. The same way Republicans are saying is happening with Democrats now.

In short: when Republicans do it, it is fine. When Democrats do the exact same thing, they should be silenced.


Yes, lets best no say nothing.. better for all.
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NIKV69
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:07 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The jet was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those killings happen all the time in the United States and no one bats an eye.



I am sorry but I am going to have to ask for clarification and sources for this one or please retract this horrendous, irresponsible statement.


Which statement? That Iran admitted it mistakenly shot down the jet or that people are in the wrong place at the wrong time?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iran ... e-n1113996


I quoted your post. Jeez. You equated that shooting down a civilian aircraft to killings that happen in the US all the time and nobody bats an eye. Please provide examples.
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:35 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
DeltaMD90 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I can really understand why the killing of this General has to be debated and critized, because it ultimately gave Trump and his administation a big win. The job of the other side will always be to try and find reasons on why it was a mistake or it was illegal or whatever.

But independently of what anyone can think, the man was a murderous terrorist, under sanctions, traveling to Iraq to plan and attack American interest and even kill Americans.

When Obama killed a US citizen with a drone I never heard the same push back as with this man. Yet killing a US citizen without a fair trial, even if he was a terrorist was really something worth questioning further, more than questioning the killing of a murderous terrorist Iranian general.

Really? I heard of a TON of pushback when President Obama did that. I still hear it to this day!

In fact, I'd say (at least from what I saw) it started the whole suspicion of the US' drone strategy and usage.


Not the same pushback, of those today criticizing Trump for killing the General, those same dems mostly stayed quiet when Obama killed the terrorist US citizen.

In fact as for drone attacks, Trump has done a lot fewer than Obama or Bush for that matter. Yet they seem to find trouble with each and everyone.

A few things.

1. Trump not doing as many drone attacks... Probably requires a lot of research, but I don't think just using that number is a good comparison. The strength of terrorists organizations, which goes up and down, will probably have the most effect on how many are even needed. I think you get where I'm going with that. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think that stay is very useful without heavy context

2. The comparative outrage? Honestly, I'd say it's mostly noise. There was pushback in both. One vs the other, which is more, were things more polarized, etc? Partisan hacks gonna partisan hack, I'd ignore the extreme 10%s and you'll get a better idea of what the bulk are saying, which leads me to 3

3. Who is worse, Soleimani or that American citizen terrorist. I don't think we need to go into a huge novel comparing them, I'm sure by many many metrics Soleimani is much worse. Honestly, most (not all of course) Americans against the strike probably aren't shedding much of a tear that he's gone. It's more about why the strike was a bad idea, not that Soleimani is a bad guy. Few would probably think it's smart to drone the Ayatollah. I know there are differences, but many of the reasons on why that's a bad idea apply to Soleimani, just amplified.

The strike alone is foolhearty IMO. It makes more sense if it was part of a much larger operation against Iran... war. Not that I advocate war but if that's the objective, taking out Soleimani made sense. It appeared we just thought Iran would respect the strength of us and do nothing (which is absurd IMO). We may have gained more of a reputation of a "country not to mess around with" and countries may be wary in the future, but more of the North Korea crazy reputation, "be careful of the US, they are nuts." That isn't good strength IMO and only hurts us in the long run.

Hopefully that explains my line of thought. I'm admittedly more of a moderate, left-of-center guy, but I'm not at all shedding a tear for Soleimani, at all. I know several people throughout my life that have died in these wars and Soleimani may have played a part. Good riddance. I think it was a foolish move though

Look at Iran's attack on our Iraqi bases. It raises a lot of questions. I'm shocked we shot down or even tried to engage 0 missiles. I'm not a conspiracy theorist so "I don't know" is my answer, but it raises follow up questions:

Did we know about the strikes and were warned they wouldn't hurt our troops?

Were our missile defense systems "hacked"? (I'm not sure how, it's not like it's army.mil/air-defense-networks.exe, but omg if they did hack us)

But most importantly, are we just that inadequately prepared to intercept Iranian missiles coming to our bases in Iraq? If the answer is yes, then the Soleimani strike and lack of preparedness is borderline criminal!!!! Think about it. We took him out, prompting an OBVIOUS response, and they launch missiles at our bases incapable of defending our troops against the obvious retaliation?




tl;dr read the last paragraph, that's my main, unanswered concern
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:55 pm

BN747 wrote:
No tears for Soliemani for certain.

Not to single you out, BN747, we often, often disagree, but this important.

Note, everyone, what BN747 is saying here. He is one of the more vocal critics of Trump here, I think we can agree. He is on record not upset of Soleimani's death!!!

It's the reasons behind the strike!

There will still be disagreements, but can we please move on from "liberals defending Soleimani"? Dig hard and you'll find a handful, but that is NOT what most of those opposing his killing are arguing!!!

Honesty and understanding of the opposing side is how we move forward in any argument
 
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:08 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
No tears for Soliemani for certain.

Not to single you out, BN747, we often, often disagree, but this important.

Note, everyone, what BN747 is saying here. He is one of the more vocal critics of Trump here, I think we can agree. He is on record not upset of Soleimani's death!!!

It's the reasons behind the strike!

There will still be disagreements, but can we please move on from "liberals defending Soleimani"? Dig hard and you'll find a handful, but that is NOT what most of those opposing his killing are arguing!!!

Honesty and understanding of the opposing side is how we move forward in any argument


Exactly! A more apt comparison to the newbie’s straw man is Al Baghdadi. Democrats were fine with him being killed, so it isn’t some partisan thing or refusing to give Trump “a win”. The only criticism on the Al Baghdadi killing was Trump’s BEHAVIOR over it. Trump taking personal credit for it as if he were a member of Seal Team Six. Trump violated all precedent by targeting the Iranian general, and has now opened Pandora’s Box. We shall see how this plays out in the months/years/decade to come.
 
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:38 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
No tears for Soliemani for certain.

Not to single you out, BN747, we often, often disagree, but this important.

Note, everyone, what BN747 is saying here. He is one of the more vocal critics of Trump here, I think we can agree. He is on record not upset of Soleimani's death!!!

It's the reasons behind the strike!

There will still be disagreements, but can we please move on from "liberals defending Soleimani"? Dig hard and you'll find a handful, but that is NOT what most of those opposing his killing are arguing!!!

Honesty and understanding of the opposing side is how we move forward in any argument


Taking out this general is the equivalent of taking out Himmler from Nazi Germany (which was Hitler's number two).

I haven't singled out anyone in this forum, but Democratic US rep Omar, said she was 'outraged'. As with others who seemed 'shocked' and 'troubled' that the general was killed.

BTW, it may seem that the weak regime of Iran is suffering a lot after killing the general, now people are protesting the downing of the aircraft, and justly so.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
sonicruiser
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:32 am

Pompeo has been responsible for far more civilian deaths than Soleimani. If Soleimani was taken out, Pompeo should be too.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:19 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Pompeo has been responsible for far more civilian deaths than Soleimani. If Soleimani was taken out, Pompeo should be too.


If you are referring to tacit US support for Saudi-led operations in Yemen, you’ll have to name a lot more people than Pompeo - though his overt friendliness to the KSA royals is quite extreme.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:24 am

Aaron747 wrote:
If you are referring to tacit US support for Saudi-led operations in Yemen, you’ll have to name a lot more people than Pompeo - though his overt friendliness to the KSA royals is quite extreme.


Look at Pompeo’s smirk. That is the face of a man who has realized he has spent one too many days in the Trump administration.

Image
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:29 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Taking out this general is the equivalent of taking out Himmler from Nazi Germany (which was Hitler's number two).

No, we were in a huge, declared, active world war with Nazi Germany!

Would you be ok if we bombed Hitler in WWII? If so, are you advocating we bomb the Ayatollah, something we'd must certainly be able to pull off?

If you are for bombing Hitler, but not the Ayatollah, why would you be for bombing "Iran's Himmler," Soleimani??

I know not everything is apples to apples and there is nuance, but I think we can chunk out the Himmler argument (which must be a thing, I've heard it more than once, assuming it wasn't from you twice)
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:38 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
If you are referring to tacit US support for Saudi-led operations in Yemen, you’ll have to name a lot more people than Pompeo - though his overt friendliness to the KSA royals is quite extreme.


Look at Pompeo’s smirk. That is the face of a man who has realized he has spent one too many days in the Trump administration.

Image


There are lots of people who look like him in DC - bloated and self-satisfied. Pretty strange lack of humility for someone soooo ‘Christian’.
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LMP737
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:40 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I was promised WW III, oil at $100+ a barrel, wiped out bases in Iraq, the Straits of Hormuz mined and closed; an aircraft carrier sunk. What?


You seem to think that if nothing has happened in the past couple weeks that nothing is going to happen.

I really never gave much credence to talk of WW3. But can you honestly say this action makes Americans safer, especially in the middle east? The fact that the State Department told Americans in Iraq to leave answers that question.

Now lets say the Iranians end up taking no further military action. What are the chances Iran is going to sit down across the table from the current administration and discuss things on a diplomatic level? More importantly does Trumps actions the past couple years increase or decrease the chances of Iran getting the bomb?
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LMP737
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:49 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:

Taking out this general is the equivalent of taking out Himmler from Nazi Germany (which was Hitler's number two).



No, it is not. For one, we are not at war with Iran, Second, Iran is not Nazi Germany. Quite frankly to mention the two in the same sentence is rather ridiculous,

Also, Himmler was never number two.
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NIKV69
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:52 am

sonicruiser wrote:
Pompeo has been responsible for far more civilian deaths than Soleimani. If Soleimani was taken out, Pompeo should be too.


It's talk like this and the behavior of the zealot media that got Trump elected and will get him a second term. Keep it coming.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:13 am

LMP737 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Taking out this general is the equivalent of taking out Himmler from Nazi Germany (which was Hitler's number two).



No, it is not. For one, we are not at war with Iran, Second, Iran is not Nazi Germany. Quite frankly to mention the two in the same sentence is rather ridiculous,

Also, Himmler was never number two.

Really? Guess who have stated that Israel needs to be wiped out of earth? Sounds similar?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
LMP737
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:19 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Really? Guess who have stated that Israel needs to be wiped out of earth? Sounds similar?


Did the Jews of Europe have nuclear weapons like Israel does? I'm rather sure the leadership in Tehran knows what would happen if they tried. I doubt they're suicidal.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:26 am

LMP737 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Really? Guess who have stated that Israel needs to be wiped out of earth? Sounds similar?


Did the Jews of Europe have nuclear weapons like Israel does? I'm rather sure the leadership in Tehran knows what would happen if they tried. I doubt they're suicidal.

Lets stop pretending these are good people alright? They also chant “death to America”... not something nice people do, aside from killing Americans, are you so naive to think we arent in some form of war?

They are our enemies, the have sworn that
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:40 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Taking out this general is the equivalent of taking out Himmler from Nazi Germany (which was Hitler's number two).



No, it is not. For one, we are not at war with Iran, Second, Iran is not Nazi Germany. Quite frankly to mention the two in the same sentence is rather ridiculous,

Also, Himmler was never number two.

Really? Guess who have stated that Israel needs to be wiped out of earth? Sounds similar?


Don’t let a good story get in the way of facts - from a nonpartisan Iranian source (both against the current regime and foreign interference):

So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in farsi:

“Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.”

That passage will mean nothing to most people, but one word might ring a bell: rezhim-e. It is the word “Regime“, pronounced just like the English word with an extra “eh” sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the land mass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad does not even refer to Israel by name, he instead uses the specific phrase “rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods” (regime occupying Jerusalem).

So this raises the question.. what exactly did he want “wiped from the map”? The answer is: nothing. That’s because the word “map” was never used. The Persian word for map, “nagsheh“, is not contained anywhere in his original farsi quote, or, for that matter, anywhere in his entire speech. Nor was the western phrase “wipe out” ever said. Yet we are led to believe that Iran’s President threatened to “wipe Israel off the map”, despite never having uttered the words “map”, “wipe out” or even “Israel”.

THE PROOF:

The full quote translated directly to English:

“The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time”.


https://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-wi ... /21188/amp

They are talking about the government, not the country or people. More recently Khamenei clarified for followers the meaning of ‘death to America’:

Khamenei's website on Friday quoted him as saying the chant meant "death to US leaders, death to [US President Donald] Trump and John Bolton and [Mike] Pompeo".

"It means death to America's rulers ... we have nothing against the American people," he said.


https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2019 ... 21318.html

I understand jingoism is tempting, but it is unbecoming and does nothing to improve relations in the world.
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sonicruiser
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:53 am

For everyone saying that both sides are not to blame and that exclusively Iran’s actions resulted in the shootdown while absolving the US of any responsibility, at best this line of thinking is disingenuous. Trump’s escalation by killing Soleimani had a critical role in instigating ripe conditions for the shootdown of the plane. Irresponsible leadership at the highest levels of the US gov’t has directly led to the situation America currently finds itself in. Trump could never have made a critical miscalculation if he never made a calculation in the first place. He deserves no innocence for his role in the events of the past week. It does not make any sense to say Soleimani was evil and that “He should’ve been taken out because he was a bad guy” without understanding the implications of doing exactly that. You cannot say Soleimani should’ve been killed but then blame Iran for seeking vengeance. Because this unleashes a level of chaos that highlights both an ennervated understanding of international law and a basic understanding of Newton’s 3rd law. Geopolitics is not some place to experiment with avant garde ideas like assassinating the military commander of a foreign country. Unlike most people here, I don’t view Soleimani as evil because I am originally from the region and lived there for some time. I don’t need someone else living thousands of miles away in America to tell me what he did or didn’t do because I lived in a country bordering Iran and understood very well what kind of propaganda Americans say about him and what he actually did in the region. I could see many of the effects of his influence on the region on a day to day basis with my own eyes, and it was sometimes positive, sometimes negative. But he was far from the mass murderer that Pompeo and Trump claim, and which many Americans believe. Nobody that has their hands in the Middle East can claim to be free of blood, not Iran, not Saudi, not America, not Russia, not Israel. Soleimani, like the leader of any country did what was in the interest of his country, and that does not always align with the interests of America. As a person who formerly lived in that region, I understood this fact better than most people, including those who live thousands of miles away in the US which is maybe why my view is such an outlier here. American tendencies to label anyone opposing their interests such as Soleimani as a terrorist and mass murderer is a cop out. He was not America’s friend, but that was never his job. He was the top general of Iran, he wasn’t supposed to be friendly to America. The US cannot genocide half the population of Iraq and Afghanistan without a care in the world under the guise of “shoot first, ask later” and then clutch pearls and cry foul when their own soldiers get killed by Iran. That is the consequence of war. Maybe Americans are surprised that anyone can dislike them, but this did not happen overnight. A reputation of intimidation and coercion from the US gov’t over several consecutive decades led to the formation of a cohesive resistance movement across the Middle East backed by Iran that opposes US interests in the Persian Gulf region. US actions throughout the world are certain to ignite a reaction, whether it is in Iran, China, or Russia. This should not surprise anyone. Newton’s third law states: “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.” This is not a difficult concept to grasp.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:03 am

sonicruiser wrote:
For everyone saying that both sides are not to blame and that exclusively Iran’s actions resulted in the shootdown, at best this line of thinking is disingenuous. Trump’s escalation by killing Soleimani had a critical role in instigating ripe conditions for the shootdown of the plane. Irresponsible leadership at the highest levels of the US gov’t has directly led to the situation America currently finds itself in. Trump could never have made a critical miscalculation if he never made a calculation in the first place. He deserves no innocence for his role in the events of the past week. It does not make any sense to say Soleimani was evil and that “He should’ve been taken out because he was a bad guy” without understanding the implications of doing exactly that. You cannot say Soleimani should’ve been killed but then blame Iran for seeking vengeance. Because this unleashes a level of chaos that highlights both an ennervated understanding of international law and a basic understanding of Newton’s 3rd law. Geopolitics is not some place to experiment with avant garde ideas like assassinating the military commander of a foreign country. Unlike most people here, I don’t view Soleimani as evil because I am originally from the region and lived there for some time. I don’t need someone else living thousands of miles away in America to tell me what he did or didn’t do because I lived in a country bordering Iran and understood very well what kind of propaganda Americans say about him and what he actually did in the region. I could see many of the effects of his influence on the region on a day to day basis with my own eyes, and it was sometimes positive, sometimes negative. But he was far from the mass murderer that Pompeo and Trump claim, and which many Americans believe. Nobody that has their hands in the Middle East can claim to be free of blood, not Iran, not Saudi, not America, not Russia, not Israel. Soleimani, like the leader of any country did what was in the interest of his country, and that does not always align with the interests of America. As a person who formerly lived in that region, I understood this fact better than most people, including those who live thousands of miles away in the US which is maybe why my view is such an outlier here. American tendencies to label anyone opposing their interests such as Soleimani as a terrorist and mass murderer is a cop out. He was not America’s friend, but that was never his job. He was the top general of Iran, he wasn’t supposed to be friendly to America. The US cannot genocide half the population of Iraq and Afghanistan without a care in the world under the guise of “shoot first, ask later” and then clutch pearls and cry foul when their own soldiers get killed by Iran. That is the consequence of war. Maybe Americans are surprised that anyone can dislike them, but this did not happen overnight. A reputation of intimidation and coercion from the US gov’t over several consecutive decades led to the formation of a cohesive resistance movement across the Middle East backed by Iran that opposes US interests in the Persian Gulf region. US actions throughout the world are certain to ignite a reaction, whether it is in Iran, China, or Russia. This should not surprise anyone. Newton’s third law states: “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.” This is not a difficult concept to grasp.


But you’re forgetting - according to US neocons, the only action acceptable from any state are those already approved by the US. World police: our way, or the highway.
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LMP737
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:16 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Lets stop pretending these are good people alright?


Really? Which people are you referring to? Are you talking about all the Iranian people? Did you see a video of some Iranians chanting "Death to America" and decide all Iranians think the same? If that's the case, there's a word for that.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
They also chant “death to America”... not something nice people do, aside from killing Americans, are you so naive to think we arent in some form of war? They are our enemies, the have sworn that


Are so naive to apply the same label to an entire group of people based on what you have seen on TV? And if they are our sworn enemy and we are at "some form of war" I suggest you prepare to defend our country and enlist.

P.S. How many Americans have been killed by Saudi nationals compared with Iranian?
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BN747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:20 am

sonicruiser wrote:
For everyone saying that both sides are not to blame and that only Iran’s actions resulted in the shootdown, at best this line of thinking is disingenuous. Trump’s escalation by killing Soleimani had a critical role in instigating ripe conditions for the shootdown of the plane. Irresponsible leadership at the highest levels of the US gov’t has directly led to the situation America currently finds itself in. Trump could never have made a critical miscalculation if he never made a calculation in the first place. He deserves no innocence for his role in the events of the past week. It does not make any sense to say Soleimani was evil and that “He should’ve been taken out because he was a bad guy” without understanding the implications of doing exactly that. You cannot say Soleimani should’ve been killed but then blame Iran for seeking vengeance. Because this unleashes a level of chaos that highlights both an ennervated understanding of international law and a basic understanding of Newton’s 3rd law. Geopolitics is not some place to experiment with avant garde ideas like assassinating the military commander of a foreign country. Unlike most people here, I don’t view Soleimani as evil because I am originally from the region and lived there for some time. I don’t need someone else living thousands of miles away in America to tell me what he did or didn’t do because I lived in a country bordering Iran and understood very well what kind of propaganda Americans say about him and what he actually did in the region. I could see many of the effects of his influence on the region on a day to day basis with my own eyes, and it was sometimes positive, sometimes negative. But he was far from the mass murderer that Pompeo and Trump claim, and which many Americans believe. Nobody that has their hands in the Middle East can claim to be free of blood, not Iran, not Saudi, not America, not Russia, not Israel. Soleimani, like the leader of any country did what was in the interest of his country, and that does not always align with the interests of America. As a person who formerly lived in that region, I understood this fact better than most people, including those who live thousands of miles away in the US which is maybe why my view is such an outlier here. American tendencies to label anyone opposing their interests such as Soleimani as a terrorist and mass murderer is a cop out. He was not America’s friend, but that was never his job. He was the top general of Iran, he wasn’t supposed to be friendly to America. The US cannot genocide half the population of Iraq and Afghanistan without a care in the world under the guise of “shoot first, ask later” and then clutch pearls and cry foul when their own soldiers get killed by Iran. That is the consequence of war. Maybe Americans are surprised that anyone can dislike them, but this did not happen overnight. A reputation of intimidation and coercion from the US gov’t over several consecutive decades led to the formation of a cohesive resistance movement across the Middle East backed by Iran that opposes US interests in the Persian Gulf region. US actions throughout the world are certain to ignite a reaction, whether it is in Iran, China, or Russia. This should not surprise anyone. Newton’s third law states: “For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.” This is not a difficult concept to grasp.


Now there's a wake call of a post...well done Sonicruiser!

Many of the never left America crowd (and any over enthusiastic children here) needed to hear that, all of that PLUS the US' stinging and wreckless history of damage to Iran.. Had any nation pulled on US what we've done to them...We would just be getting started on a 1000 Hate campaign on that country and it's people.

The argument is not whether Soliemani was good or evil, he was no different than his counter part in Israel, Pakistan, Philippines, China or America..each has blood on their hands, no exceptions!

The argument is the disrespectful use of an ally's territory to wrecklessly antagonize the already high octane Iraq-Iran relationship..we dragged the Iraqis into a situation they had no say and certainly would not have approved there. As I told an idiot who served over there and complained about the locals - I pointed out to him that , yeah, after you're long gone back to America, all those locals you left behind are there for life. And after the damage you've done local with neighboring nations are now at our doorstep to dealt with as they see fit.

The American president is not a good guy, in fact, he's very disgusting and evil human being.
The worst of the worst, wrapping himself in the flag and has zero respect, zero understanding of what it stands for and history rest on it,
Claiming he's relgious..and millions of the religious here know he's lying, if they know their Bible (and most do not) they'd all know he fits the Anti-Christ role perfectly!
His actions on American citizens - Puerto Rico, Immoral.
His actions on our southern border - inhumane and cruel.

He's crowing about taking this man's life, like it is a trophy or something trivial is quite telling of his very nature and he has placed Americans around the globe in danger because he has no concern of their well being...only that 'as a child said here earlier'..he got a win. Yay! Really? Are some people that feeble?

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
N583JB
Posts: 508
Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:58 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:20 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

I am sorry but I am going to have to ask for clarification and sources for this one or please retract this horrendous, irresponsible statement.


Which statement? That Iran admitted it mistakenly shot down the jet or that people are in the wrong place at the wrong time?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/iran ... e-n1113996


I quoted your post. Jeez. You equated that shooting down a civilian aircraft to killings that happen in the US all the time and nobody bats an eye. Please provide examples.


I'm also curious about this one. Has the US military ever shot down a civilian plane over US soil?
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 5463
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:12 am

LMP737 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I was promised WW III, oil at $100+ a barrel, wiped out bases in Iraq, the Straits of Hormuz mined and closed; an aircraft carrier sunk. What?


You seem to think that if nothing has happened in the past couple weeks that nothing is going to happen.

I really never gave much credence to talk of WW3. But can you honestly say this action makes Americans safer, especially in the middle east? The fact that the State Department told Americans in Iraq to leave answers that question.

Now lets say the Iranians end up taking no further military action. What are the chances Iran is going to sit down across the table from the current administration and discuss things on a diplomatic level? More importantly does Trumps actions the past couple years increase or decrease the chances of Iran getting the bomb?


With protests anew in Iran, Soleimani’s death probably made life safer for the protesters, not to mention others across the ME. No Americans have been injured since the action. I’m willing to consider the possibility the protest lead to the fall of the mullahs. Not sure how it will go, but they’re in a precarious position with the public, is this Chernobyl for them?

GF
 
sonicruiser
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:18 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:14 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
With protests anew in Iran, Soleimani’s death probably made life safer for the protesters, not to mention others across the ME. No Americans have been injured since the action. I’m willing to consider the possibility the protest lead to the fall of the mullahs. Not sure how it will go, but they’re in a precarious position with the public, is this Chernobyl for them?

GF


I doubt killing Soleimani changes anything or saves any American lives. The US acts as if Soleimani's successor won't continue the same plans they had before. Soleimani had close calls with death before, his successor was named roughly 10 min after he died so Iran had prepared for it. All his assassination did was wreak chaos in an even more unstable Middle East, and now gives Iran more incentive to develop a nuclear weapon. Iran views Pompeo as responsible for numerous Iranian deaths from sanctions the way the US views Soleimani as responsible for US deaths. Many Iranians and Shias in general who are directly threatened by Sunni extremism supported by the Saudis didn't think the US was doing enough to counter ISIS compared to Soleimani, and the US demonized Shias while getting in bed with Sunnis. Despite what most Americans believe, it is not Iran but rather Saudi funding the enemies of the US. When was the last time you heard of a Shia or Iranian attack on US soil? Or anywhere for that matter? Never. When was the last time you heard of a Saudi attack on US soil? To put it bluntly, the US did not do enough to fight ISIS due to its close ties with the House of Saud and unwillingness to clamp down on Sunni extremism, there are literally videos of them driving around in Humvees and all kinds of US military equipment. How the hell ISIS got ahold of US military equipment, I have absolutely no clue. But it is hard evidence that the US was doing a piss poor job of fighting ISIS. People take it for granted that ISIS is gone. But for better or worse, many Sunni countries did absolutely nothing to stop it, at best they didn't care, at worst, they were funding it. When ISIS captured towns and indoctrinated the population, they didn't have any textbooks, so they downloaded electronic PDF's of Saudi textbooks and taught from that. So much for being America's top ally against terror. The US makes a distinction between the actions of the Saudi gov't and ISIS, but there is not much of a distinction, ideologically, they are more similar than people think. The only reason ISIS can exist at all is because they have the support of Saudi Arabia that itself follows the extremist ideology that inspired ISIS. And after all of that, Saudi is still unequivocally America's top regional ally. While Saudi looked the other way at Sunni extremism, Iran became enemy #1 of ISIS. Iran, being the only powerful Shia country, was practically the only country that committed large national resources to wipe out and put a tight lid on Sunni/Saudi extremism on a scale that only a powerful country could mobilize and coordinate. It should not be taken for granted that someone else would've done it. To be clear, ISIS is a virulent strain of the most extremist Sunni ideologies, 99.9% of average Sunni Muslims are normal people in your office or your local grocery store like anyone else. But Sunni governments, especially Saudi Arabia funded these extremist elements to gain power until wiped out by the enemy of Sunni extremism such as ISIS, by their No.1 enemy, majority Shia Iran. After defeating ISIS, in the absence of anyone else, Iran filled that power vacuum. Iran didn't get powerful by invading other countries like the US, they got powerful by spreading proxies and making connections with real people across the region. Soleimani wasn't feared by America because he killed Americans, he was feared because he had real and powerful friends in the Middle East who were loyal to him and which Iran could depend on to support them. The US needs to forget about pleasing Arab Gulf monarchies and make the Middle Eastern PEOPLE their friend like Iran rather than killing them en masse in never ending protracted wars all across the Middle East if it ever hopes to reduce Iranian influence. The US should withdraw troops and start investing capital into those countries and make some real allies. Build some schools and educate children, construct some hospitals for the sick and injured, win the hearts of the people through soft power so those countries can rebuild like Germany and Japan. It will be cheaper and more effective at increasing American popularity than spending trillions to keep existing wars running. Guess what? Iran has already been building schools and hospitals across the region to win the hearts and loyalty of people to make some proxy allies while America is asleep at the wheel and continues to go on a bombing campaign to test out the latest products of its military industrial complex. Iran's influence will reduce in the absence of an enemy to rally people against. Hard power with drone strikes will not make the US the friend of anyone in the Middle East and will only strengthen Iran. Even now, the US and the Saudis still don't get it. The US killed 60 Afghan civilians in a drone strike yesterday as "collateral damage" and continues to support the Saudi war in Yemen. And people still wonder where anti-American sentiment comes from. Iran is taking advantage of anti-American sentiment in the region, but they aren't creating it. People whose families are killed by US drone strikes and wars in the region have a reason to oppose US presence in the region, it is not a mystery why Iran has become so powerful as the force leading the charge against US presence in the Middle East. I hate to say it, but Iran is better at making friends with people in the region than the US. The support of allies is much more impactful than the fear of being killed. It is a Machiavellian situation of would you rather fear being betrayed by the US or be respected by Iran. Yemenis hated the Saudis/Americans and Iran took advantage of it. Lebanese hated Israelis for invading and Iran took advantage of it. Iraqis hated US for invading and Iran took advantage of it. Both sides view the other side as an enemy, killing the leader of either side is not justified no matter how much you hate them. The shaky intel that led to his assassination was doubted by people in Trump's own administration, tantamount to WMD's in Iraq. I heard I think it was Richard Haas that said Iran was not an uninheritable situation when Trump became President. If he abided by the JCPOA, the current crisis would not have any reason to foment. Iran wasn't like Afghanistan or Syria because it wasn't a crisis when he became President. They exhibited a total and utter lack of any common sense in the administration's Iran policy in withdrawing from the JCPOA, especially when Iran was acknowledged by every major international body to have been abiding by the JCPOA. It was beyond foolish to think maximum pressure was ever going to work, Iran would never back down after surviving sanctions and witnessing the spectacular implosion of US foreign policy over the last 4 decades. Why would maximum pressure work now? Regime change and the fall of the gov't as you mention is exactly what led to the 1979 Revolution that ousted the US from Iran. The only reform that will come in Iran will be from within, and the consent of its own people. The JCPOA was a comprehensive multilateral solution to a major US foreign policy issue for decades and hated practically only by Israel and Saudi Arabia who Trump is in bed with.
Last edited by sonicruiser on Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
شما می توانید مردم را تحریم کنید ، اما نمی توانید سبک تحریم را اعمال کنید

You can sanction people, but you can't sanction style
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 22170
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:42 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I was promised WW III, oil at $100+ a barrel, wiped out bases in Iraq, the Straits of Hormuz mined and closed; an aircraft carrier sunk. What?


You seem to think that if nothing has happened in the past couple weeks that nothing is going to happen.

I really never gave much credence to talk of WW3. But can you honestly say this action makes Americans safer, especially in the middle east? The fact that the State Department told Americans in Iraq to leave answers that question.

Now lets say the Iranians end up taking no further military action. What are the chances Iran is going to sit down across the table from the current administration and discuss things on a diplomatic level? More importantly does Trumps actions the past couple years increase or decrease the chances of Iran getting the bomb?


With protests anew in Iran, Soleimani’s death probably made life safer for the protesters, not to mention others across the ME. No Americans have been injured since the action. I’m willing to consider the possibility the protest lead to the fall of the mullahs. Not sure how it will go, but they’re in a precarious position with the public, is this Chernobyl for them?

GF


No Americans were injured by Soleimani or the Iraqi military leadership before the action. How is this a victory? Yes, they were on the opposition. But assassinating the opposition leader because reasons is better than letting the opposition leader live because reasons considering the assassination has worse outcomes than the alternative.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
BN747
Posts: 7678
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 5:48 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:15 am

Well now...this can't be good,

Blackwater founder Erik Prince pushed Trump allies to assassinate Gen. Suleimani: Mueller documents
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/01/blackw ... documents/

...you know when that guy has anything to do with anything, it's shady AF at the very least and the worst case scenario are best odds on the outcome.


There is always 'more to it' when looking into any trump action and illegality is never far behind or already seasoned into whatever scheme was cooking on the grill at the time.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson

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