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seb146
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:24 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

The Iraq War was authorized separately.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoriza ... on_of_2002

I am studying how broad the authorization for GWOT really is. I don't know the answer.


No one does, to be honest. Terrorists who were allies are enemies and are allies sometimes but not others but allies are enemies because this and that and reasons so allies are not always allies but enemies are not always enemies because reasons and the covfefe and when a tree falls in the woods does blue still make the same sound as the color of the wind?

It is arbitrary. The Republican administration loves to throw around the word "terrorist" and "terrorism" and all those fear words to get people ginned up so they can stay in power. Not that the Republican administration actually does anything. They just love staying in power. I think it was LBJ who said something about giving the white man someone to look down on and he will vote for you or something like that. Republicans took that and ran with it. Which is why we have what we have today.

Yes, I know... LBJ was a Democrat, but he knew what he was talking about!


We're still waiting for those examples, seb.


Examples of.....? All the bills passed out of the House that are sitting on McConnell's desk? I posted links. One is a searchable database directly from Congress. I have been trying to keep those comments short because it is off topic. The lie by Republicans that Democrats have done nothing needs to be addressed, though.
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tu204
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:36 pm

mham001 wrote:
the man was responsible for (an estimated) 100,000 dead Iranians in the last wave of dissent just two months ago.

tu204 wrote:
The United States illegally (and under false and misleading pretenses) invaded Iraq back in 2003. Since then it is the U.S. that has been on Iran's doorstep and 10,000km away from theirs. Iranians have much more of a right to lets say get involved in Iraqi affairs for ethnic and religious reasons than the U.S. does (btw, why is the U.S. in Iraq anyways?). So you can't really blame them for getting involved in Iraq, on their doorstep with some similar interests, than the U.S. which is half a world away.

We can go further back to the 1950's when the United States started directly interefering in Iranian internal affairs and causing them a whole lot of hell.


Another history revision by a hater. Did history begin in 1950? No. Why did the US get involved in 1950? Because Europeans - including EXTENSIVE Russian interference - had screwed up the entire region (and more) for centuries before. But we probably won't be allowed to discuss that here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran


1: Undershooting here. Not 100,000, but a million, or better, millions. And then don't forget to add "personally by xxxxxx". Heck just make a random 7-figure number up, nobody's gonna check anyways.
Don't make it so round though. Use something like 101,359.

2: Yes, during WW2 Russia and the UK did, in hindsight unjustifiably occupy Iran, which is a good reason Iranians don't really trust anyone than themselves, unlike other countries that are/were "swinging" between the powers.

Iran is just there on their own picking limited scenario based alliances when it suits them. I understand them and can't blame them. Neither can I blame them for desiring to get a nuke or two sooner than later. They really don't have any real friends and as far the interests of Iran and Iranian sovreingty go, not talking about the interests of U.S., Russia, other neighboring states and the the E.U.; cause none of the above want them with a bomb.

But it really is in Iran's interests to have something in their sleeve to be able to tell the U.S., Russia, Saudis and others to piss off when it comes to playing games with them again.

Just to do a reality check here - we all realise that nuclear weapons in the current scenario are a deterrent, right?
If someone thinks otherwise though, I'd be glad to hear an opinion on a possible first strike (aggression) by Iran, using a handfull of low yield nukes delivered by ballistic missiles a few thousand miles to (where). Then of course the response against Iran, and finally obviously the final outcome with the conclusion of what Iran had to gain in the first place from such actions... the "Iranian threat" everyone is so afraid about.

Seriously guys, if 10 years ago I believed in this boogeyman of "Iranian nuclear threat" (allright, was early 20's), now it just seems clear to me that these guys want, need and have a pretty good reason to develop such technology for self defence with the shit show thats being put on around them.
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BN747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:24 pm

tu204 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
the man was responsible for (an estimated) 100,000 dead Iranians in the last wave of dissent just two months ago.

tu204 wrote:
The United States illegally (and under false and misleading pretenses) invaded Iraq back in 2003. Since then it is the U.S. that has been on Iran's doorstep and 10,000km away from theirs. Iranians have much more of a right to lets say get involved in Iraqi affairs for ethnic and religious reasons than the U.S. does (btw, why is the U.S. in Iraq anyways?). So you can't really blame them for getting involved in Iraq, on their doorstep with some similar interests, than the U.S. which is half a world away.

We can go further back to the 1950's when the United States started directly interefering in Iranian internal affairs and causing them a whole lot of hell.


Another history revision by a hater. Did history begin in 1950? No. Why did the US get involved in 1950? Because Europeans - including EXTENSIVE Russian interference - had screwed up the entire region (and more) for centuries before. But we probably won't be allowed to discuss that here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran


1: Undershooting here. Not 100,000, but a million, or better, millions. And then don't forget to add "personally by xxxxxx". Heck just make a random 7-figure number up, nobody's gonna check anyways.
Don't make it so round though. Use something like 101,359.

2: Yes, during WW2 Russia and the UK did, in hindsight unjustifiably occupy Iran, which is a good reason Iranians don't really trust anyone than themselves, unlike other countries that are/were "swinging" between the powers.

Iran is just there on their own picking limited scenario based alliances when it suits them. I understand them and can't blame them. Neither can I blame them for desiring to get a nuke or two sooner than later. They really don't have any real friends and as far the interests of Iran and Iranian sovreingty go, not talking about the interests of U.S., Russia, other neighboring states and the the E.U.; cause none of the above want them with a bomb.

But it really is in Iran's interests to have something in their sleeve to be able to tell the U.S., Russia, Saudis and others to piss off when it comes to playing games with them again.

Just to do a reality check here - we all realise that nuclear weapons in the current scenario are a deterrent, right?
If someone thinks otherwise though, I'd be glad to hear an opinion on a possible first strike (aggression) by Iran, using a handfull of low yield nukes delivered by ballistic missiles a few thousand miles to (where). Then of course the response against Iran, and finally obviously the final outcome with the conclusion of what Iran had to gain in the first place from such actions... the "Iranian threat" everyone is so afraid about.

Seriously guys, if 10 years ago I believed in this boogeyman of "Iranian nuclear threat" (allright, was early 20's), now it just seems clear to me that these guys want, need and have a pretty good reason to develop such technology for self defence with the shit show thats being put on around them.


I consider you, tu204 far too Putin friendly for my taste...but this post is spot on in representing the state Iran finds itself in. They absolutely do have a right to protect their interest and presence among the Sunni Arab forces of the region. They are Shiite leaders as what the Saudis are to the Sunni believers.

I have a few Persian friends who travel back and forth for family reasons and their take is exactly like this, except they are no big fans of the Mullahs & Ayatollahs...they would like see a return to secular government. But Iran invited the religious nuts back in 1979...after years of American (awful) influence since usurping their gov't. Nonetheless, they have a right to protect themselves just as Israel does.

BN747
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N583JB
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:08 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

No one does, to be honest. Terrorists who were allies are enemies and are allies sometimes but not others but allies are enemies because this and that and reasons so allies are not always allies but enemies are not always enemies because reasons and the covfefe and when a tree falls in the woods does blue still make the same sound as the color of the wind?

It is arbitrary. The Republican administration loves to throw around the word "terrorist" and "terrorism" and all those fear words to get people ginned up so they can stay in power. Not that the Republican administration actually does anything. They just love staying in power. I think it was LBJ who said something about giving the white man someone to look down on and he will vote for you or something like that. Republicans took that and ran with it. Which is why we have what we have today.

Yes, I know... LBJ was a Democrat, but he knew what he was talking about!


We're still waiting for those examples, seb.


Examples of.....? All the bills passed out of the House that are sitting on McConnell's desk? I posted links. One is a searchable database directly from Congress. I have been trying to keep those comments short because it is off topic. The lie by Republicans that Democrats have done nothing needs to be addressed, though.


Here's my previous post. You may have missed it:

Your exact words were "The jet was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those killings happen all the time in the United States and no one bats an eye."

What "killings" are you referring to? If they happen "all the time", surely you can provide examples? Thanks in advance.
 
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seb146
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:37 pm

N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:

We're still waiting for those examples, seb.


Examples of.....? All the bills passed out of the House that are sitting on McConnell's desk? I posted links. One is a searchable database directly from Congress. I have been trying to keep those comments short because it is off topic. The lie by Republicans that Democrats have done nothing needs to be addressed, though.


Here's my previous post. You may have missed it:

Your exact words were "The jet was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those killings happen all the time in the United States and no one bats an eye."

What "killings" are you referring to? If they happen "all the time", surely you can provide examples? Thanks in advance.


Last time. There are killings that happen every day where someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The "I didn't know" defense.
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N583JB
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:55 pm

seb146 wrote:
N583JB wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Examples of.....? All the bills passed out of the House that are sitting on McConnell's desk? I posted links. One is a searchable database directly from Congress. I have been trying to keep those comments short because it is off topic. The lie by Republicans that Democrats have done nothing needs to be addressed, though.


Here's my previous post. You may have missed it:

Your exact words were "The jet was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those killings happen all the time in the United States and no one bats an eye."

What "killings" are you referring to? If they happen "all the time", surely you can provide examples? Thanks in advance.


Last time. There are killings that happen every day where someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The "I didn't know" defense.


Ok. That's better. The way you had it worded implied that airliners were shot down frequently over the United States by mistake.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:49 am

We can put the whole thing to bed now because PressSec, making $180K never doing her job and holding a conference, says so:

Trump on Monday insisted the threat posed by Soleimani was imminent and that his team was in agreement on the strike, but tweeted “it doesn’t really matter because of his horrible past!”

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham dismissed scrutiny of Trump’s claim that four embassies were in the crosshairs as “semantics.”


So now inquiries by jounalists and members of Congress into precisely what intelligence kicked off a destabilizing event are ‘semantics’. Your tax dollars at work :sarcastic:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... threat?amp
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:43 pm

Another interesting development this morning - there may now be as many as 10 GOP Senators backing Sen. Kaine's version of the war powers resolution limiting funding and authority for further actions in Iran solely to the Congress.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/478 ... war-powers
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LMP737
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:13 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:


The Iranian people are good people, I meant obviously the government officials..


No you didn't, You said ."Lets stop pretending these are good people alright?" along with "They also chant “death to America”... not something nice people do, aside from killing Americans, are you so naive to think we arent in some form of war? They are our enemies, the have sworn thatr enemies, the have sworn that."

No where in those statements did you say you were only referring to government officials. Are you going to try and argue the only people in those crowds are people who work for the government?


AirWorthy99 wrote:
We can keep defending Iran all we want bur we can all agree they arent a friendly nation to the US, and we need not declare war on them in order to act, last time the US declared war was almost 80 years ago.


First of all, who here is defending Iran? Those of us who see the folly in all this have no love for the Iranian government, We just don;t want yet another war. People like you don't seem to understand the law of unintended consequences. It won't take much at this point for things to spiral out of control. But if they do I'm sure you will volunteer yourself for military service.
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LMP737
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:16 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
[



That's a lot of naiveté in your part. Fed in part by our post modernist propaganda being fed to us daily.

.



Wow. That amazing, coming from someone who is using the same sort of talking points that got us into the mess in Iraq now being used to justify actions against Iran.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:22 pm

LMP737 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


The Iranian people are good people, I meant obviously the government officials..


No you didn't, You said ."Lets stop pretending these are good people alright?" along with "They also chant “death to America”... not something nice people do, aside from killing Americans, are you so naive to think we arent in some form of war? They are our enemies, the have sworn thatr enemies, the have sworn that."

No where in those statements did you say you were only referring to government officials. Are you going to try and argue the only people in those crowds are people who work for the government?


AirWorthy99 wrote:
We can keep defending Iran all we want bur we can all agree they arent a friendly nation to the US, and we need not declare war on them in order to act, last time the US declared war was almost 80 years ago.


First of all, who here is defending Iran? Those of us who see the folly in all this have no love for the Iranian government, We just don;t want yet another war. People like you don't seem to understand the law of unintended consequences. It won't take much at this point for things to spiral out of control. But if they do I'm sure you will volunteer yourself for military service.


I am not going to chew on your PC mantra. If you wish to shut me down because you want to label me an Iranian hater, so be it. I clarified my position. Not the 82 million Iranians, When a Trump hater says that all Trump supporters are racist or bigots, do they include all 63 million voters?

Sure I would gladly volunteer for a war, no doubt. What do you know about my patriotism?

Nice try.
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:31 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


The Iranian people are good people, I meant obviously the government officials..


No you didn't, You said ."Lets stop pretending these are good people alright?" along with "They also chant “death to America”... not something nice people do, aside from killing Americans, are you so naive to think we arent in some form of war? They are our enemies, the have sworn thatr enemies, the have sworn that."

No where in those statements did you say you were only referring to government officials. Are you going to try and argue the only people in those crowds are people who work for the government?


AirWorthy99 wrote:
We can keep defending Iran all we want bur we can all agree they arent a friendly nation to the US, and we need not declare war on them in order to act, last time the US declared war was almost 80 years ago.


First of all, who here is defending Iran? Those of us who see the folly in all this have no love for the Iranian government, We just don;t want yet another war. People like you don't seem to understand the law of unintended consequences. It won't take much at this point for things to spiral out of control. But if they do I'm sure you will volunteer yourself for military service.


I am not going to chew on your PC mantra. If you wish to shut me down because you want to label me an Iranian hater, so be it. I clarified my position. Not the 82 million Iranians, When a Trump hater says that all Trump supporters are racist or bigots, do they include all 63 million voters?

Sure I would gladly volunteer for a war, no doubt. What do you know about my patriotism?

Nice try.


That says volumes about naïveté right there. Volunteering for a fight where there is zero existential threat to family, homeland, national borders etc.

You still can’t seem to accept there are views in opposition to all of this that have ZERO to do with defending the regime over there.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:39 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

No you didn't, You said ."Lets stop pretending these are good people alright?" along with "They also chant “death to America”... not something nice people do, aside from killing Americans, are you so naive to think we arent in some form of war? They are our enemies, the have sworn thatr enemies, the have sworn that."

No where in those statements did you say you were only referring to government officials. Are you going to try and argue the only people in those crowds are people who work for the government?




First of all, who here is defending Iran? Those of us who see the folly in all this have no love for the Iranian government, We just don;t want yet another war. People like you don't seem to understand the law of unintended consequences. It won't take much at this point for things to spiral out of control. But if they do I'm sure you will volunteer yourself for military service.


I am not going to chew on your PC mantra. If you wish to shut me down because you want to label me an Iranian hater, so be it. I clarified my position. Not the 82 million Iranians, When a Trump hater says that all Trump supporters are racist or bigots, do they include all 63 million voters?

Sure I would gladly volunteer for a war, no doubt. What do you know about my patriotism?

Nice try.


That says volumes about naïveté right there. Volunteering for a fight where there is zero existential threat to family, homeland, national borders etc.

You still can’t seem to accept there are views in opposition to all of this that have ZERO to do with defending the regime over there.


Well, if we think like that, I guess all of us would have to go not voluntarily but on a draft. Thanks for all of the thousands of people who volunteer and don't have that mentality, because of them we can enjoy our freedoms here and in the comfort of our homes criticizing our government!

I can't understand why we have to be so 'cautious' and PC strict on Iran, as if they really care at all even for their own people much less about us.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:11 am

Obama national security adviser says Trump ‘absolutely correct’ to kill Soleimani

Former President Barack Obama’s national security adviser fully supported President Trump’s decision to kill top Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani and floated the "possible collapse" of the theocratic regime in Tehran.

“What the administration did in the Soleimani case is absolutely correct,” Gen. James Jones, 76, said at the Atlantic Council Global Energy Forum in Abu Dhabi.

“This was a powerful step. We’ll see where it goes,” he added. “It’s a complicated region, but I think history will say that this was the right thing to do.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -soleimani


So after the death of this General this has happened:

1- Iran de-escalated tensions by standing down.
2- WWIII did not happen.
3- The Iran regime further weakened, the people of Iran did not rally behind their government, in fact they are protesting against it.
4- The EU is beginning steps to step away from the Iran-Nuclear deal.
5- Iran is more isolated than before as a result.
Last edited by AirWorthy99 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:12 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I am not going to chew on your PC mantra. If you wish to shut me down because you want to label me an Iranian hater, so be it. I clarified my position. Not the 82 million Iranians, When a Trump hater says that all Trump supporters are racist or bigots, do they include all 63 million voters?

Sure I would gladly volunteer for a war, no doubt. What do you know about my patriotism?

Nice try.


That says volumes about naïveté right there. Volunteering for a fight where there is zero existential threat to family, homeland, national borders etc.

You still can’t seem to accept there are views in opposition to all of this that have ZERO to do with defending the regime over there.


Well, if we think like that, I guess all of us would have to go not voluntarily but on a draft. Thanks for all of the thousands of people who volunteer and don't have that mentality, because of them we can enjoy our freedoms here and in the comfort of our homes criticizing our government!

I can't understand why we have to be so 'cautious' and PC strict on Iran, as if they really care at all even for their own people much less about us.


Totally failing to see the view from 10,000 feet on both points.
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:17 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Obama national security adviser says Trump ‘absolutely correct’ to kill Soleimani

Former President Barack Obama’s national security adviser fully supported President Trump’s decision to kill top Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani and floated the "possible collapse" of the theocratic regime in Tehran.

“What the administration did in the Soleimani case is absolutely correct,” Gen. James Jones, 76, said at the Atlantic Council Global Energy Forum in Abu Dhabi.

“This was a powerful step. We’ll see where it goes,” he added. “It’s a complicated region, but I think history will say that this was the right thing to do.”


So after the death of this General this has happened:

1- Iran de-escalated tensions by standing down.
2- WWIII did not happen.
3- The Iran regime further weakened, the people of Iran did not rally behind their government, in fact they are protesting against it.
4- The EU is beginning steps to step away from the Iran-Nuclear deal.
5- Iran is more isolated than before as a result.


You didn’t even look for context. Shocking someone would say such a thing in front of an audience of GCC emirs and princes representing Sunni petrotheocracy states :sarcastic:
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:21 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Obama national security adviser says Trump ‘absolutely correct’ to kill Soleimani

Former President Barack Obama’s national security adviser fully supported President Trump’s decision to kill top Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani and floated the "possible collapse" of the theocratic regime in Tehran.

“What the administration did in the Soleimani case is absolutely correct,” Gen. James Jones, 76, said at the Atlantic Council Global Energy Forum in Abu Dhabi.

“This was a powerful step. We’ll see where it goes,” he added. “It’s a complicated region, but I think history will say that this was the right thing to do.”


So after the death of this General this has happened:

1- Iran de-escalated tensions by standing down.
2- WWIII did not happen.
3- The Iran regime further weakened, the people of Iran did not rally behind their government, in fact they are protesting against it.
4- The EU is beginning steps to step away from the Iran-Nuclear deal.
5- Iran is more isolated than before as a result.


You didn’t even look for context. Shocking someone would say such a thing in front of an audience of GCC emirs and princes representing Sunni petrotheocracy states :sarcastic:



So you seem to still think this was a mistake, even when a former Obama official seems to disagree?

Do you think we are closer to war today than before the US killed the general?
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:26 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Obama national security adviser says Trump ‘absolutely correct’ to kill Soleimani



So after the death of this General this has happened:

1- Iran de-escalated tensions by standing down.
2- WWIII did not happen.
3- The Iran regime further weakened, the people of Iran did not rally behind their government, in fact they are protesting against it.
4- The EU is beginning steps to step away from the Iran-Nuclear deal.
5- Iran is more isolated than before as a result.


You didn’t even look for context. Shocking someone would say such a thing in front of an audience of GCC emirs and princes representing Sunni petrotheocracy states :sarcastic:



So you seem to still think this was a mistake, even when a former Obama official seems to disagree?

Do you think we are closer to war today than before the US killed the general?


Why would it matter what administration the former official was from? Still not seeing the big picture.

No comment about where he was speaking either, so I’ll suppose you don’t know the region well.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:27 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You didn’t even look for context. Shocking someone would say such a thing in front of an audience of GCC emirs and princes representing Sunni petrotheocracy states :sarcastic:



So you seem to still think this was a mistake, even when a former Obama official seems to disagree?

Do you think we are closer to war today than before the US killed the general?


Why would it matter what administration the former official was from? Still not seeing the big picture.


Again,
Do you think we are closer to war today than before the US killed the general?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:31 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


So you seem to still think this was a mistake, even when a former Obama official seems to disagree?

Do you think we are closer to war today than before the US killed the general?


Why would it matter what administration the former official was from? Still not seeing the big picture.


Again,
Do you think we are closer to war today than before the US killed the general?


Nobody can answer that. There are more troops staging in the region, the area is more destabilized than two and a half years ago, and the mullahs are increasingly backed into a corner. It’s anybody’s guess.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:35 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Why would it matter what administration the former official was from? Still not seeing the big picture.


Again,
Do you think we are closer to war today than before the US killed the general?


Nobody can answer that. There are more troops staging in the region, the area is more destabilized than two and a half years ago, and the mullahs are increasingly backed into a corner. It’s anybody’s guess.


Well, it seems tensions have flared. The embassies in the region are safe. The bases haven't been attacked. And the regime is running for cover internally because of protests.

It's pretty clear things are a bit better.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:40 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Again,
Do you think we are closer to war today than before the US killed the general?


Nobody can answer that. There are more troops staging in the region, the area is more destabilized than two and a half years ago, and the mullahs are increasingly backed into a corner. It’s anybody’s guess.


Well, it seems tensions have flared. The embassies in the region are safe. The bases haven't been attacked. And the regime is running for cover internally because of protests.

It's pretty clear things are a bit better.


Those are your feelings - doesn’t make it true. It’s the Middle East - anything can happen, anytime. Nice that you ran away from the other point of discussion though.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:41 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Obama national security adviser says Trump ‘absolutely correct’ to kill Soleimani

Former President Barack Obama’s national security adviser fully supported President Trump’s decision to kill top Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani and floated the "possible collapse" of the theocratic regime in Tehran.

“What the administration did in the Soleimani case is absolutely correct,” Gen. James Jones, 76, said at the Atlantic Council Global Energy Forum in Abu Dhabi.

“This was a powerful step. We’ll see where it goes,” he added. “It’s a complicated region, but I think history will say that this was the right thing to do.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -soleimani


So after the death of this General this has happened:

1- Iran de-escalated tensions by standing down.
2- WWIII did not happen.
3- The Iran regime further weakened, the people of Iran did not rally behind their government, in fact they are protesting against it.
4- The EU is beginning steps to step away from the Iran-Nuclear deal.
5- Iran is more isolated than before as a result.


6- amid increased tensions in the region, 176 people are blown out of the sky and killed. For an aviation website, this is a stunning omission from your list.
 
AirWorthy99
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Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:43 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Nobody can answer that. There are more troops staging in the region, the area is more destabilized than two and a half years ago, and the mullahs are increasingly backed into a corner. It’s anybody’s guess.


Well, it seems tensions have flared. The embassies in the region are safe. The bases haven't been attacked. And the regime is running for cover internally because of protests.

It's pretty clear things are a bit better.


Those are your feelings - doesn’t make it true. It’s the Middle East - anything can happen, anytime. Nice that you ran away from the other point of discussion though.


Which point, you mean from where the Obama official was talking from? You mean to say he has been bribed? how could an Obama official be bribed or somehow influenced?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:44 am

skyservice_330 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Obama national security adviser says Trump ‘absolutely correct’ to kill Soleimani

Former President Barack Obama’s national security adviser fully supported President Trump’s decision to kill top Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani and floated the "possible collapse" of the theocratic regime in Tehran.

“What the administration did in the Soleimani case is absolutely correct,” Gen. James Jones, 76, said at the Atlantic Council Global Energy Forum in Abu Dhabi.

“This was a powerful step. We’ll see where it goes,” he added. “It’s a complicated region, but I think history will say that this was the right thing to do.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -soleimani


So after the death of this General this has happened:

1- Iran de-escalated tensions by standing down.
2- WWIII did not happen.
3- The Iran regime further weakened, the people of Iran did not rally behind their government, in fact they are protesting against it.
4- The EU is beginning steps to step away from the Iran-Nuclear deal.
5- Iran is more isolated than before as a result.


6- amid increased tensions in the region, 176 people are blown out of the sky and killed. For an aviation website, this is a stunning omission from your list.


I guess I also missed the dozens killed in the funeral then? and the dozens arrested in the street for protesting the regime?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:53 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Well, it seems tensions have flared. The embassies in the region are safe. The bases haven't been attacked. And the regime is running for cover internally because of protests.

It's pretty clear things are a bit better.


Those are your feelings - doesn’t make it true. It’s the Middle East - anything can happen, anytime. Nice that you ran away from the other point of discussion though.


Which point, you mean from where the Obama official was talking from? You mean to say he has been bribed? how could an Obama official be bribed or somehow influenced?


No, about missing the 10,000-foot view. Which seems to be an ongoing issue regardless of topic.

Here it is, nice and slow: there are a lot of voters, especially independents and libertarians, who don’t think we should be the world’s police force. US military resources defending alliances and the homeland? Noble. Defending economic interests and fomenting regime change? Foolhardy and more trouble than its worth...way outside the charter of national defense. Guess which category all of this fits into? There, now you have the view from 10K.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1381
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:53 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
skyservice_330 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Obama national security adviser says Trump ‘absolutely correct’ to kill Soleimani


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -soleimani


So after the death of this General this has happened:

1- Iran de-escalated tensions by standing down.
2- WWIII did not happen.
3- The Iran regime further weakened, the people of Iran did not rally behind their government, in fact they are protesting against it.
4- The EU is beginning steps to step away from the Iran-Nuclear deal.
5- Iran is more isolated than before as a result.


6- amid increased tensions in the region, 176 people are blown out of the sky and killed. For an aviation website, this is a stunning omission from your list.


I guess I also missed the dozens killed in the funeral then? and the dozens arrested in the street for protesting the regime?


Yeh, you did. Good of you to recognize the oversight. Innocent people and civilians are paying the price of increased tensions in the area, and you omitted reference to them in your list completely.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:58 am

skyservice_330 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
skyservice_330 wrote:

6- amid increased tensions in the region, 176 people are blown out of the sky and killed. For an aviation website, this is a stunning omission from your list.


I guess I also missed the dozens killed in the funeral then? and the dozens arrested in the street for protesting the regime?


Yeh, you did. Good of you to recognize the oversight. Innocent people and civilians are paying the price of increased tensions in the area, and you omitted reference to them in your list completely.


Well, the US had no part on that. Its your opinion to pin all of those things on the US. No missiles were being fired into Iran from the US. So a trigger happy Iranian kid decides to blow up a plane full of people was part of the plan the US had? or the disorganization of a funeral, how can that also be blamed on the US?.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:09 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
skyservice_330 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I guess I also missed the dozens killed in the funeral then? and the dozens arrested in the street for protesting the regime?


Yeh, you did. Good of you to recognize the oversight. Innocent people and civilians are paying the price of increased tensions in the area, and you omitted reference to them in your list completely.


Well, the US had no part on that. Its your opinion to pin all of those things on the US. No missiles were being fired into Iran from the US. So a trigger happy Iranian kid decides to blow up a plane full of people was part of the plan the US had? or the disorganization of a funeral, how can that also be blamed on the US?.


Show me in my posts where I used the terms ‘US,’ ‘USA,’ or ‘United States.’ Hell, show me where I said the word ‘opinion.’

I’ll wait
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:18 am

skyservice_330 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
skyservice_330 wrote:

Yeh, you did. Good of you to recognize the oversight. Innocent people and civilians are paying the price of increased tensions in the area, and you omitted reference to them in your list completely.


Well, the US had no part on that. Its your opinion to pin all of those things on the US. No missiles were being fired into Iran from the US. So a trigger happy Iranian kid decides to blow up a plane full of people was part of the plan the US had? or the disorganization of a funeral, how can that also be blamed on the US?.


Show me in my posts where I used the terms ‘US,’ ‘USA,’ or ‘United States.’ Hell, show me where I said the word ‘opinion.’

I’ll wait


My apologies if I have misunderstood you. But don't understand why in the context of what I have posted, should the 'mistake' of a missile strike on a civilian airplane, be part of all of this, when clearly there wasn't any 'crossfire' or bellicose action between both sides. This is an internal issue that happened independently of the killing of the general. Very likely it would have happened even if the US hadn't killed the general, perhaps not that day, but any given time considering the dysfunction and ineptitude of the Iranian regime and their trigger happy zealots.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:33 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
skyservice_330 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Well, the US had no part on that. Its your opinion to pin all of those things on the US. No missiles were being fired into Iran from the US. So a trigger happy Iranian kid decides to blow up a plane full of people was part of the plan the US had? or the disorganization of a funeral, how can that also be blamed on the US?.


Show me in my posts where I used the terms ‘US,’ ‘USA,’ or ‘United States.’ Hell, show me where I said the word ‘opinion.’

I’ll wait


My apologies if I have misunderstood you. But don't understand why in the context of what I have posted, should the 'mistake' of a missile strike on a civilian airplane, be part of all of this, when clearly there wasn't any 'crossfire' or bellicose action between both sides. This is an internal issue that happened independently of the killing of the general. Very likely it would have happened even if the US hadn't killed the general, perhaps not that day, but any given time considering the dysfunction and ineptitude of the Iranian regime and their trigger happy zealots.


This statement is patently ridiculous - they and the US have the same number of shootdowns in the region since 1985...so what’s your point?

Given all the variables, it is far more mathematically likely that the shoot down would NOT have occurred in an environment of lowered tensions.

What is your evidence for these assumptions? actual events or data - not your feelz. Thanks.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Re: Head Iran Gen Killed In Air Strike

Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:33 am

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