BN747
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Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:48 pm

White House says Trump will issue new rules to expand ‘constitutional prayer’ in public schools
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/01/white- ... c-schools/

Gotta stop the Evangelical hemorrhaging ASAP!!!

So spread the Religion ignorance (is a special kind) by forcing all the kids to buy into it.

BN747
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: White House : Trump to Issue New Rules to Expand ‘Constitutional Prayer’ in Public Schools

Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:35 pm

What in f... is a constitutional prayer?
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Jouhou
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Re: White House : Trump to Issue New Rules to Expand ‘Constitutional Prayer’ in Public Schools

Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:31 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
What in f... is a constitutional prayer?


The unconstitutional kind.
 
ltbewr
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Re: White House : Trump to Issue New Rules to Expand ‘Constitutional Prayer’ in Public Schools

Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:14 am

This is likely an attempt to allow Christian themed prayers at public K-12 schools at graduations, sports and other school sponsored events, led by coaches with team members and staff. Mainly this is an attempt to appease the evangelical Christian voters.

There have been a number of cases where Christian prayers said at public school functions have been found to be [correctly] unconstitutional and no longer allowed to be done, but challenged on 1st Amendment grounds of freedom of speech. Often the challengers are those not of the Christian faith or non-believers, or more the parents of children affected, that is is against tradition.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: White House : Trump to Issue New Rules to Expand ‘Constitutional Prayer’ in Public Schools

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:24 am

ltbewr wrote:
This is likely an attempt to allow Christian themed prayers at public K-12 schools at graduations, sports and other school sponsored events, led by coaches with team members and staff. Mainly this is an attempt to appease the evangelical Christian voters.

There have been a number of cases where Christian prayers said at public school functions have been found to be [correctly] unconstitutional and no longer allowed to be done, but challenged on 1st Amendment grounds of freedom of speech. Often the challengers are those not of the Christian faith or non-believers, or more the parents of children affected, that is is against tradition.


So, the GOP wonders why NH has gone blue and continues to invest to flip us back. It's shit like this that made our libertarians vote blue. It's not a big mystery. Educated parts of the country can not support this BS.
 
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ER757
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Re: White House : Trump to Issue New Rules to Expand ‘Constitutional Prayer’ in Public Schools

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:40 am

Mainly this is an attempt to appease the evangelical Christian voters.

That's exactly what this is, no more, no less.
 
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seb146
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Re: White House : Trump to Issue New Rules to Expand ‘Constitutional Prayer’ in Public Schools

Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:47 am

Forcing Christianity in public schools is wrong and against the law but I actually kinda want this to pass just to watch Republican heads explode during Ramadan or Passover or Diwali and the ensuing lawsuits.

They keep saying they want smaller government and don't care what people do in their own lives but this shows exactly who the Republicans are.
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casinterest
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Re: White House : Trump to Issue New Rules to Expand ‘Constitutional Prayer’ in Public Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:10 pm

NO New Rules.
Just reinforced guidance on the religious rights of religious students.

So glad this fraud of a president is concerned with the the religious understanding their own rights. It would be nice if he would actually get his supporters to understand the rights of others.

Will be interesting to see how his "evangelical": supporters respond to the fact that multiple religions will be in the office today. Not sure if the Pastafarians were invited.

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/16/79686439 ... in-schools

He will host a group of students from Christian, Jewish and Muslim faiths in the Oval Office to commemorate National Religious Freedom Day on Thursday.

There is no change to existing law or regulations, but the White House says it wants to empower students and teachers to exercise their rights.
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apodino
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:14 pm

This is way more a non issue than most people on here make it out to be. When I was a kid, I had a jewish teacher in first grade. We did Hanukkah and Passover and all the other Jewish type stuff. I was a catholic boy. Nobody cared. It was a non issue, even though technically by the letter of the supreme court ruling, this should have been illegal as it was a public school.

A teacher praying does not mean that the government is establishing a religion, nor does it mean the government is endorsing a religion. Allowing prayer in school is in no way forcing Christianity on anyone. To suggest otherwise is the biggest load of rubbish out there.

People also mention the Muslim aspect of this. That doesn't bother me either. With the growth of the Islam religion in the US, this is going to happen, and I think it will inevitably lead to clashes between people of the Islam faith and the government because the Muslims will want their own prayer in school. If you clarify this now, you avoid this with not just Christianity, but Islam and Judiasm as well.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:21 pm

apodino wrote:
This is way more a non issue than most people on here make it out to be. When I was a kid, I had a jewish teacher in first grade. We did Hanukkah and Passover and all the other Jewish type stuff. I was a catholic boy. Nobody cared. It was a non issue, even though technically by the letter of the supreme court ruling, this should have been illegal as it was a public school.

A teacher praying does not mean that the government is establishing a religion, nor does it mean the government is endorsing a religion. Allowing prayer in school is in no way forcing Christianity on anyone. To suggest otherwise is the biggest load of rubbish out there.

People also mention the Muslim aspect of this. That doesn't bother me either. With the growth of the Islam religion in the US, this is going to happen, and I think it will inevitably lead to clashes between people of the Islam faith and the government because the Muslims will want their own prayer in school. If you clarify this now, you avoid this with not just Christianity, but Islam and Judiasm as well.


Easy compromise: no conducting prayer during required activities - standard class, assembly, etc. Optional activities like athletic events, clubs, after school gatherings, no problem...pray your heart out. I can’t see anyone except the most overzealous parents on either side taking issue with that.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:36 pm

As I expected...reiterating what is already permitted. Groundbreaking :roll:

apodino wrote:
This is way more a non issue than most people on here make it out to be. When I was a kid, I had a jewish teacher in first grade. We did Hanukkah and Passover and all the other Jewish type stuff. I was a catholic boy. Nobody cared. It was a non issue, even though technically by the letter of the supreme court ruling, this should have been illegal as it was a public school.

A teacher praying does not mean that the government is establishing a religion, nor does it mean the government is endorsing a religion. Allowing prayer in school is in no way forcing Christianity on anyone. To suggest otherwise is the biggest load of rubbish out there.

People also mention the Muslim aspect of this. That doesn't bother me either. With the growth of the Islam religion in the US, this is going to happen, and I think it will inevitably lead to clashes between people of the Islam faith and the government because the Muslims will want their own prayer in school. If you clarify this now, you avoid this with not just Christianity, but Islam and Judiasm as well.

It may not bother you but this president and his party pushed an outright Muslin ban, so the concern trolling over religious freedom is laughable.
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T18
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:37 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
apodino wrote:
This is way more a non issue than most people on here make it out to be. When I was a kid, I had a Jewish teacher in first grade. We did Hanukkah and Passover and all the other Jewish type stuff. I was a catholic boy. Nobody cared. It was a non issue, even though technically by the letter of the supreme court ruling, this should have been illegal as it was a public school.

A teacher praying does not mean that the government is establishing a religion, nor does it mean the government is endorsing a religion. Allowing prayer in school is in no way forcing Christianity on anyone. To suggest otherwise is the biggest load of rubbish out there.

People also mention the Muslim aspect of this. That doesn't bother me either. With the growth of the Islam religion in the US, this is going to happen, and I think it will inevitably lead to clashes between people of the Islam faith and the government because the Muslims will want their own prayer in school. If you clarify this now, you avoid this with not just Christianity, but Islam and Judaism as well.


Easy compromise: no conducting prayer during required activities - standard class, assembly, etc. Optional activities like athletic events, clubs, after school gatherings, no problem...pray your heart out. I can’t see anyone except the most overzealous parents on either side taking issue with that.


Just the clarify you mean prayer led by staff, not for example if a student wants to do a quick quite prayer before a test (which I used to do in grade school, and oddly was told once by faculty that I couldn't do that, didn't stop me from doing so either though).
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EstherLouise
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:55 pm

I taught primary school in the UK in the 1980's. I was an American exchange teacher. Before going there, I spent a semester preparing to blend in as easy as possible to the British school system, which included curriculum studies, British history, educational law, and even learning language differences (like learning to automatically say zed instead of zee, learning regional Black Country slang, and learning spelling differences).

The one thing I admit that I failed to properly prepare for was how to handle the mandatory religion classes in public (US meaning of public) school and my associated failure to learn enough about the Anglican religion. I was forced to punt and, with the headmaster's permission, taught an entire term introducing the kids to the different religions of the world. This ended up being a good idea, because my school was multicultural. A third of my class were not followers of the Church of England and the headmaster reported that detail tended to stress out the non-Anglican kids as they were forced, by law, to sit through previous mandatory religion classes, typically resulting in low test scores.

As a sidebar, about 5 to 10% of my pupils were Jewish. For two weeks, the physical education classes would involve swimming at the nearby high school's swimming pool. It was the first time the kids ever went swimming there as a class. Kids brought their swim trunks to school and changed in the changing rooms. After the first class, I had a boy come up to me sobbing. With a little coaxing, he said that the other kids made fun of him in the changing room. Ends up, he was the only circumcised boy in my class and the other kids teased him and called him deformed. So, for that afternoon's religion class, I switched my planned discussion of Shintoism to Judaism and carefully told the class about the Jewish tradition of circumcision. Whew. It worked.
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DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:39 pm

I often thought that teaching a class on world religions would help students understand the world around them. My fear would be that some Christian teachers would try to prejudice students against other religions.

It's probably best that it be taught at the university level as an elective course.
 
bhill
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:59 pm

Time to start hiring Coaches and Teachers that are Witches....or Flying Spaghetti Monster Acolytes
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Jouhou
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:07 pm

EstherLouise wrote:
I taught primary school in the UK in the 1980's. I was an American exchange teacher. Before going there, I spent a semester preparing to blend in as easy as possible to the British school system, which included curriculum studies, British history, educational law, and even learning language differences (like learning to automatically say zed instead of zee, learning regional Black Country slang, and learning spelling differences).

The one thing I admit that I failed to properly prepare for was how to handle the mandatory religion classes in public (US meaning of public) school and my associated failure to learn enough about the Anglican religion. I was forced to punt and, with the headmaster's permission, taught an entire term introducing the kids to the different religions of the world. This ended up being a good idea, because my school was multicultural. A third of my class were not followers of the Church of England and the headmaster reported that detail tended to stress out the non-Anglican kids as they were forced, by law, to sit through previous mandatory religion classes, typically resulting in low test scores.

As a sidebar, about 5 to 10% of my pupils were Jewish. For two weeks, the physical education classes would involve swimming at the nearby high school's swimming pool. It was the first time the kids ever went swimming there as a class. Kids brought their swim trunks to school and changed in the changing rooms. After the first class, I had a boy come up to me sobbing. With a little coaxing, he said that the other kids made fun of him in the changing room. Ends up, he was the only circumcised boy in my class and the other kids teased him and called him deformed. So, for that afternoon's religion class, I switched my planned discussion of Shintoism to Judaism and carefully told the class about the Jewish tradition of circumcision. Whew. It worked.


It's weird because I think the opposite happens in the US. Majority will always be mean or at least weird and ignorant about the minority in any category.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:37 pm

Jouhou wrote:
EstherLouise wrote:
I taught primary school in the UK in the 1980's. I was an American exchange teacher. Before going there, I spent a semester preparing to blend in as easy as possible to the British school system, which included curriculum studies, British history, educational law, and even learning language differences (like learning to automatically say zed instead of zee, learning regional Black Country slang, and learning spelling differences).

The one thing I admit that I failed to properly prepare for was how to handle the mandatory religion classes in public (US meaning of public) school and my associated failure to learn enough about the Anglican religion. I was forced to punt and, with the headmaster's permission, taught an entire term introducing the kids to the different religions of the world. This ended up being a good idea, because my school was multicultural. A third of my class were not followers of the Church of England and the headmaster reported that detail tended to stress out the non-Anglican kids as they were forced, by law, to sit through previous mandatory religion classes, typically resulting in low test scores.

As a sidebar, about 5 to 10% of my pupils were Jewish. For two weeks, the physical education classes would involve swimming at the nearby high school's swimming pool. It was the first time the kids ever went swimming there as a class. Kids brought their swim trunks to school and changed in the changing rooms. After the first class, I had a boy come up to me sobbing. With a little coaxing, he said that the other kids made fun of him in the changing room. Ends up, he was the only circumcised boy in my class and the other kids teased him and called him deformed. So, for that afternoon's religion class, I switched my planned discussion of Shintoism to Judaism and carefully told the class about the Jewish tradition of circumcision. Whew. It worked.


It's weird because I think the opposite happens in the US. Majority will always be mean or at least weird and ignorant about the minority in any category.


It's not really that. There are places in the US where there are no other religions. present. People may learn about them, but they are still foreign until you interact with those folks. Many folks in flyover country and in rural areas don't have a lot of diversity .

In Metro areas where there is a chance for mingling. There is more understanding of the differences present.

This whole charade about protections is pandering to the ignorant that still want to push for prayer in school, where they do not understand that in many areas, not all present are of the same religion. Or even religious at all.
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stl07
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:45 am

Most high schools have all sorts of religious clubs. They can pray within their club.

That being said, I learned a lot of Jewish and African traditions through my primary school that I would never have heard of. Didn't bother anyone at all. But, if somebody was forced into praying at a public school, that would be ridiculous.
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TTailedTiger
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:06 am

Aaron747 wrote:
apodino wrote:
This is way more a non issue than most people on here make it out to be. When I was a kid, I had a jewish teacher in first grade. We did Hanukkah and Passover and all the other Jewish type stuff. I was a catholic boy. Nobody cared. It was a non issue, even though technically by the letter of the supreme court ruling, this should have been illegal as it was a public school.

A teacher praying does not mean that the government is establishing a religion, nor does it mean the government is endorsing a religion. Allowing prayer in school is in no way forcing Christianity on anyone. To suggest otherwise is the biggest load of rubbish out there.

People also mention the Muslim aspect of this. That doesn't bother me either. With the growth of the Islam religion in the US, this is going to happen, and I think it will inevitably lead to clashes between people of the Islam faith and the government because the Muslims will want their own prayer in school. If you clarify this now, you avoid this with not just Christianity, but Islam and Judiasm as well.


Easy compromise: no conducting prayer during required activities - standard class, assembly, etc. Optional activities like athletic events, clubs, after school gatherings, no problem...pray your heart out. I can’t see anyone except the most overzealous parents on either side taking issue with that.


I agree. That's a reasonable compromise.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:17 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Optional activities like athletic events, clubs, after school gatherings, no problem...pray your heart out. I can’t see anyone except the most overzealous parents on either side taking issue with that.


I agree. That's a reasonable compromise.


But i don´t think it would need more that an Zhuhr prayer during a school activity to bring plenty to those overzealous parents to the forefront.

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Thomas
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:37 pm

Washington State constitution is specifically 'no religion' in school. And it has been strictly enforced since the late 1940s. I remember when no longer the manger scenes and music were featured in the annual winter song performance. Nothing forbids students (or even teachers) from praying. But their doing so cannot impinge upon those who do not wish to pray. Various sects are allowed to have clubs on campus as I recall. But the wacko asst. football coach who want to have a group prayer of players at the end of the game and on the field was fired, and the courts agreed it impinged upon the rights of football players and spectators.

https://codes.findlaw.com/wa/washington ... ct-11.html
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seb146
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Re: Updated: Trump To Reinforce Protections For Prayer In Schools

Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:58 pm

I wonder if this is the VP's doing? We all know the leader of the Republican party does not have a religious bone in his body but the VP is hyper religious. I have no facts to back this up other than what I have seen from these two.
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