AirWorthy99
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Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:55 pm

With the recent news of Cory Booker dropping out of the Democratic race https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/p ... e=Homepage
How long till this 'identity politics' game will bite back on the Democrats. Despite calling themselves the party of 'minorities' it appears that they haven't treated candidates of color the same way they wish to mandate and obligate the rest of American society?

Is the Democratic party racist? Maybe not. Are all Democrats racist? I am sure they are not. So you can see why identity politics is not something good to keep pushing.

I hope the stop using this game, its extremely dangerous.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:59 pm

And what do you call modern right wing politics? It's also dangerous to be pushing rhetoric that white men are being left behind. That immigrants are taking our jobs, that women aren't still subject to abuse and that racism doesn't still exist.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:01 pm

Jouhou wrote:
And what do you call modern right wing politics? It's also dangerous to be pushing rhetoric that white men are being left behind. That immigrants are taking our jobs, that women aren't still subject to abuse and that racism doesn't still exist.


That's not identity politics.
Identity politics is to say vote for me because I represent your gender/race etc.... or vote for me because I will be better for your race/gender etc...

Right wing who use identity politics are bad too. But Democrats have been proud in using it more forcefully over the years. Remember "I am with her" slogan?
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:15 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
And what do you call modern right wing politics? It's also dangerous to be pushing rhetoric that white men are being left behind. That immigrants are taking our jobs, that women aren't still subject to abuse and that racism doesn't still exist.


That's not identity politics.
Identity politics is to say vote for me because I represent your gender/race etc.... or vote for me because I will be better for your race/gender etc...

Right wing who use identity politics are bad too. But Democrats have been proud in using it more forcefully over the years. Remember "I am with her" slogan?


Pretty sure that was just a bland slogan because it was a bland candidate. You're reading into it a bit too much.

The phenomenon I'm most worried about in American politics is populism, on both sides. It's divisive and puts Americans against each other in a way that is not just merely competitive. It gives people a "you're either for us or against us" mentality. It involves heavy scapegoating and hollows out the country's political middle. You can't be a centrist anymore, you're either a conservative or a liberal. If you don't support Trump but are a conservative it doesn't matter, you're a pariah in your own party.

When a populist candidate wins, fulfilling campaign promises involves abusing the scapegoated populations which gives their support base some twisted sadistic pleasure. You're seeing it with Trump supporters, who cheer for people being hurt. Just random people, as long as they don't support Trump. Bernie is also a populist candidate, I worry what might happen with him too. His supporters are just as rabid and mean spirited as Trump supporters.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:21 pm

Jouhou wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
And what do you call modern right wing politics? It's also dangerous to be pushing rhetoric that white men are being left behind. That immigrants are taking our jobs, that women aren't still subject to abuse and that racism doesn't still exist.


That's not identity politics.
Identity politics is to say vote for me because I represent your gender/race etc.... or vote for me because I will be better for your race/gender etc...

Right wing who use identity politics are bad too. But Democrats have been proud in using it more forcefully over the years. Remember "I am with her" slogan?


Pretty sure that was just a bland slogan because it was a bland candidate. You're reading into it a bit too much.

The phenomenon I'm most worried about in American politics is populism, on both sides. It's divisive and puts Americans against each other in a way that is not just merely competitive. It gives people a "you're either for us or against us" mentality. It involves heavy scapegoating and hollows out the country's political middle. You can't be a centrist anymore, you're either a conservative or a liberal. If you don't support Trump but are a conservative it doesn't matter, you're a pariah in your own party.

When a populist candidate wins, fulfilling campaign promises involves abusing the scapegoated populations which gives their support base some twisted sadistic pleasure. You're seeing it with Trump supporters, who cheer for people being hurt. Just random people, as long as they don't support Trump. Bernie is also a populist candidate, I worry what might happen with him too. His supporters are just as rabid and mean spirited as Trump supporters.


Yeah, don't see populism much dangerous as identity politics.

Pitting race, gender etc against other races etc, is what has led to genocide in many parts of the world in recent history. Recently left leaning politicians have been strongly pushing for this knowing that this will help them get votes or their causes. But as you can see with the Democratic primary field, even they who utilize this to get elected are now going to be accused of racism for not having more minorities represented in the debate stages and in the elections. So its a very dangerous game to play.
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:32 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

That's not identity politics.
Identity politics is to say vote for me because I represent your gender/race etc.... or vote for me because I will be better for your race/gender etc...

Right wing who use identity politics are bad too. But Democrats have been proud in using it more forcefully over the years. Remember "I am with her" slogan?


Pretty sure that was just a bland slogan because it was a bland candidate. You're reading into it a bit too much.

The phenomenon I'm most worried about in American politics is populism, on both sides. It's divisive and puts Americans against each other in a way that is not just merely competitive. It gives people a "you're either for us or against us" mentality. It involves heavy scapegoating and hollows out the country's political middle. You can't be a centrist anymore, you're either a conservative or a liberal. If you don't support Trump but are a conservative it doesn't matter, you're a pariah in your own party.

When a populist candidate wins, fulfilling campaign promises involves abusing the scapegoated populations which gives their support base some twisted sadistic pleasure. You're seeing it with Trump supporters, who cheer for people being hurt. Just random people, as long as they don't support Trump. Bernie is also a populist candidate, I worry what might happen with him too. His supporters are just as rabid and mean spirited as Trump supporters.


Yeah, don't see populism much dangerous as identity politics.

Pitting race, gender etc against other races etc, is what has led to genocide in many parts of the world in recent history. Recently left leaning politicians have been strongly pushing for this knowing that this will help them get votes or their causes. But as you can see with the Democratic primary field, even they who utilize this to get elected are now going to be accused of racism for not having more minorities represented in the debate stages and in the elections. So its a very dangerous game to play.


Tell me how many genocides didn't start with a populist uprising, scapegoating selected populations spanning a wide variety of categories from ethnicity to education level to wealth level to religion.
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:42 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Remember "I am with her" slogan?

I remember a ton of men and minorities and others "wearing" that (pins, bumper sticker, comments, etc.) not just women. How is that identity politics? My guess is that some wanted to think it was since they were not female or felt threatened by things.

In general identity politics has most been played by/for minorities as an easy way to say "I know what you deal with, you can trust me" which is of course not really accurate but many people like seeing someone they think is relatable to them and their experiences.

Tugg
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:45 pm

Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Remember "I am with her" slogan?

I remember a ton of men and minorities and others "wearing" that (pins, bumper sticker, comments, etc.) not just women. How is that identity politics? My guess is that some wanted to think it was since they were not female or felt threatened by things.

In general identity politics has most been played by/for minorities as an easy way to say "I know what you deal with, you can trust me" which is of course not really accurate but many people like seeing someone they think is relatable to them and their experiences.

Tugg


Which is a dangerous game to play, to say this in order to get votes.

"Vote for me I was a stay a home mom, but later became a wealthy lawyer and college professor". Warren.

And now the Dems look 'racist' by using their own standards, when they don't support a minority candidate.

Lets vote for who we think best represent the country, not my race or gender, wouldn't it be better?
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:02 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
With the recent news of Cory Booker dropping out of the Democratic race https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/p ... e=Homepage
How long till this 'identity politics' game will bite back on the Democrats. Despite calling themselves the party of 'minorities' it appears that they haven't treated candidates of color the same way they wish to mandate and obligate the rest of American society?

Is the Democratic party racist? Maybe not. Are all Democrats racist? I am sure they are not. So you can see why identity politics is not something good to keep pushing.

I hope the stop using this game, its extremely dangerous.


What do you mean by identity politics? As far as I can tell, the term refers to people of color, women and the LGBTQ community. So you're disgusted with politicians giving these groups attention? You think this will backfire on the Dems? Are you against fairness for all groups? Do you wish not acknowledge there is disparity in the way people are treated and the liberties they are afforded.

Let's be honest.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:03 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Remember "I am with her" slogan?

I remember a ton of men and minorities and others "wearing" that (pins, bumper sticker, comments, etc.) not just women. How is that identity politics? My guess is that some wanted to think it was since they were not female or felt threatened by things.

In general identity politics has most been played by/for minorities as an easy way to say "I know what you deal with, you can trust me" which is of course not really accurate but many people like seeing someone they think is relatable to them and their experiences.

Tugg


Which is a dangerous game to play, to say this in order to get votes.

"Vote for me I was a stay a home mom, but later became a wealthy lawyer and college professor". Warren.

And now the Dems look 'racist' by using their own standards, when they don't support a minority candidate.

Lets vote for who we think best represent the country, not my race or gender, wouldn't it be better?

Versus: "I am a successful business man who supports and believes as you do!"?

That is better than being a mom and then working in a successful career and using that experience as part of your credentials for running and managing the office?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:05 pm

mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
With the recent news of Cory Booker dropping out of the Democratic race https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/p ... e=Homepage
How long till this 'identity politics' game will bite back on the Democrats. Despite calling themselves the party of 'minorities' it appears that they haven't treated candidates of color the same way they wish to mandate and obligate the rest of American society?

Is the Democratic party racist? Maybe not. Are all Democrats racist? I am sure they are not. So you can see why identity politics is not something good to keep pushing.

I hope the stop using this game, its extremely dangerous.


What do you mean by identity politics? As far as I can tell, the term refers to people of color, women and the LGBTQ community. So you're disgusted with politicians giving these groups attention? You think this will backfire on the Dems? Are you against fairness for all groups? Do you wish not acknowledge there is disparity in the way people are treated and the liberties they are afforded.

Let's be honest.


Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.
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LCDFlight
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:13 pm

mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
With the recent news of Cory Booker dropping out of the Democratic race https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/p ... e=Homepage
How long till this 'identity politics' game will bite back on the Democrats. Despite calling themselves the party of 'minorities' it appears that they haven't treated candidates of color the same way they wish to mandate and obligate the rest of American society?

Is the Democratic party racist? Maybe not. Are all Democrats racist? I am sure they are not. So you can see why identity politics is not something good to keep pushing.

I hope the stop using this game, its extremely dangerous.


What do you mean by identity politics? As far as I can tell, the term refers to people of color, women and the LGBTQ community. So you're disgusted with politicians giving these groups attention? You think this will backfire on the Dems? Are you against fairness for all groups? Do you wish not acknowledge there is disparity in the way people are treated and the liberties they are afforded.

Let's be honest.


Not at all. There are many examples of identity politics on all sides. Having "pride marches" and the like can be a good thing, but it can also be a slippery slope to very, very bad things. Identity politics are politics that are NOT consistent between genders, creeds and colors. That's what they are in a nutshell. These are the politics Dr. King was fighting against when he urged people to judge one another, not based on their identity, but on the content of their character.

A good reason to hire / elect someone is a good reason to fire somebody too. So that shouldn't be based on what gender, creed or color they are.
 
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:15 pm

[quote="AirWorthy99"Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.[/quote]
OK, can you actually specify an instance where someone is saying that? ("I'm black/gay/female, black/gay/female people must vote for me?") What have seen from all sides is the more normal thing of spouting off of "I like X, I don't like Z... etc." that tends to paint people into one subset of politics or another.

Tugg
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:19 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.



This is called a straw man argument as well as false equivalency.

It is a straw man because you are putting words in the mouths of people who seek equality for all people that do not represent their argument. It's false equivalence because efforts to establish equality for all has nothing to do with the extermination of millions based on a fascist movement.

You might want to sharpen your logic and your argumentation skills before making a statement. Also, let me advise you that you are revealing a great deal about yourself and your intentions by posting this garbage.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:30 pm

mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.



This is called a straw man argument as well as false equivalency.

It is a straw man because you are putting words in the mouths of people who seek equality for all people that do not represent their argument. It's false equivalence because efforts to establish equality for all has nothing to do with the extermination of millions based on a fascist movement.

You might want to sharpen your logic and your argumentation skills before making a statement. Also, let me advise you that you are revealing a great deal about yourself and your intentions by posting this garbage.


It seems to me you know nothing about this subject. Identity politics is not the politics of empathy or compassion toward minority groups.

Is the politics that say vote for me and your identity group will be represented by me. Contrary to the argument, vote for me and I will represent the best interests of an entire society, not an specific group. The identity politics game is a dangerous one, if you seem to defend it but don't know the consequences of being part of the other group, you might as well also be against it.

So don't play the victim group mentality that the leftists/neo Marxists justice warriors play. Is not. that.

As another poster mentioned MLK fought against that, and would be rolling on his grave if he sees the current situation.
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:30 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Not at all. There are many examples of identity politics on all sides. Having "pride marches" and the like can be a good thing, but it can also be a slippery slope to very, very bad things. Identity politics are politics that are NOT consistent between genders, creeds and colors. That's what they are in a nutshell. These are the politics Dr. King was fighting against when he urged people to judge one another, not based on their identity, but on the content of their character.

A good reason to hire / elect someone is a good reason to fire somebody too. So that shouldn't be based on what gender, creed or color they are.



1. "Having 'pride marches' and the like can be a good thing, but it can also be a slippery slope to very, very bad things.

Really? Please list those very, very bad things.

2. "Identity politics are politics that are NOT consistent between genders, creeds and colors."

Really? How so? Please provide examples.

3. "These are the politics Dr. King was fighting against when he urged people to judge one another, not based on their identity, but on the content of their character."

You are presumptuous to assert what you think Dr. King was saying. Dr. King envisioned a society where skin color was not a factor. To conclude King refused to acknowledge discrimination is absurd. And ignorant. And it demonstrates your bias more than it says anything about King.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:32 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Which is a dangerous game to play, to say this in order to get votes.

"Vote for me I was a stay a home mom, but later became a wealthy lawyer and college professor". Warren.

And now the Dems look 'racist' by using their own standards, when they don't support a minority candidate.

Lets vote for who we think best represent the country, not my race or gender, wouldn't it be better?

Let's rewrite this:

"Vote for me I am and always have been an elite business man with multiple bankruptcies who never strayed from the city but now I suddenly care about the little guy in rural Nowheresville". Trump.

And now the Reps look 'socialist' by using their own standards, when they don't support a rich candidate.

Lets vote for who we think best represent the country, not my wealth or sudden change of heart, wouldn't it be better?
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:34 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Is the politics that say vote for me and your identity group will be represented by me. Contrary to the argument, vote for me and I will represent the best interests of an entire society, not an specific group. The identity politics game is a dangerous one,

So you equally hold disgust of how the current US leader "identifies" and pushes only things that his followers "identify" with?

Tugg
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:37 pm

Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Is the politics that say vote for me and your identity group will be represented by me. Contrary to the argument, vote for me and I will represent the best interests of an entire society, not an specific group. The identity politics game is a dangerous one,

So you equally hold disgust of how the current US leader "identifies" and pushes only things that his followers "identify" with?

Tugg


Of course, if anyone uses race/gender a a political tool, I would be against it.

Again, whoever uses race/gender etc as political tool for you to get votes/support is bad. Either on the left or right.

You all seem to support only when its on the left.
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:41 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
It seems to me you know nothing about this subject. Identity politics is not the politics of empathy or compassion toward minority groups.
I know nothing about this subject? LOL. Identity politics is a dog whistle for racists who don't want to share their liberties or access to resources to others. It's an empty phrase you have refused to define even though I asked you to do so.


Is the politics that say vote for me and your identity group will be represented by me. Contrary to the argument, vote for me and I will represent the best interests of an entire society, not an specific group.


Literally nobody says this except for people who are hostile to basic civil rights and equality

The identity politics game is a dangerous one, if you seem to defend it but don't know the consequences of being part of the other group, you might as well also be against it.

This makes no sense whatsover

So don't play the victim group mentality that the leftists/neo Marxists justice warriors play. Is not. that.

...and here we go to using more labels and dog whistles - "victim group mentality," "leftists," "neo Marxists," "justice warriors."

This isn't a logical argument. This is an irrational rant, throwing every label you can think of against the wall to see what will stick. There is no intellectual organization to your argument




As another poster mentioned MLK fought against that, and would be rolling on his grave if he sees the current situation.

The sheer, mindless presumptuousness of asserting what King is thinking. Thanks for the blacksplaining.
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:41 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
You all seem to support only when its on the left.

?? Where has that been said or indicated at all?

And again I will ask, as I did a couple post above and that you have not answered: Who is currently using race/gender in their campaign? Please cite specifics. Thanks.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:47 pm

Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
You all seem to support only when its on the left.

?? Where has that been said or indicated at all?

And again I will ask, as I did a couple post above and that you have not answered: Who is currently using race/gender in their campaign? Please cite specifics. Thanks.

Tugg


Have you seen the backlash to Booker dropping out?
In december he said this:

Booker said on MSNBC: "I'm a little angry. I have to say that we started with one of the most diverse fields in our history, giving people pride, and it's a damn shame now that the only African American woman in this race, who has been speaking to issues that need to be brought up, is now no longer in it, and we're spiraling towards a debate stage that potentially ... could have six people with no diversity whatsoever.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 41990.html
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:49 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
You all seem to support only when its on the left.

?? Where has that been said or indicated at all?

And again I will ask, as I did a couple post above and that you have not answered: Who is currently using race/gender in their campaign? Please cite specifics. Thanks.

Tugg


Have you seen the backlash to Booker dropping out?
In december he said this:

Booker said on MSNBC: "I'm a little angry. I have to say that we started with one of the most diverse fields in our history, giving people pride, and it's a damn shame now that the only African American woman in this race, who has been speaking to issues that need to be brought up, is now no longer in it, and we're spiraling towards a debate stage that potentially ... could have six people with no diversity whatsoever.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 41990.html

Fair enough, but where has anyone here in their replies supported that point of view?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:01 pm

Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
?? Where has that been said or indicated at all?

And again I will ask, as I did a couple post above and that you have not answered: Who is currently using race/gender in their campaign? Please cite specifics. Thanks.

Tugg


Have you seen the backlash to Booker dropping out?
In december he said this:

Booker said on MSNBC: "I'm a little angry. I have to say that we started with one of the most diverse fields in our history, giving people pride, and it's a damn shame now that the only African American woman in this race, who has been speaking to issues that need to be brought up, is now no longer in it, and we're spiraling towards a debate stage that potentially ... could have six people with no diversity whatsoever.


https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 41990.html

Fair enough, but where has anyone here in their replies supported that point of view?

Tugg


User: mbmbos seems to be ok with it, as long it is on the left or minority groups. Lets not confuse empathy and compassion in politics, which is entirely a different thing to this.

The Russian revolution was another extreme case of this, on the left. The proletariat vs the bourgeoisie. Pitting people and dividing among victims and victimizers. Nazi germany, and so on and so forth. Its an endless game, very dangerous.
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:14 pm

Jouhou wrote:
The phenomenon I'm most worried about in American politics is populism, on both sides. It's divisive and puts Americans against each other in a way that is not just merely competitive. It gives people a "you're either for us or against us" mentality. It involves heavy scapegoating and hollows out the country's political middle. You can't be a centrist anymore, you're either a conservative or a liberal. If you don't support Trump but are a conservative it doesn't matter, you're a pariah in your own party.

When a populist candidate wins, fulfilling campaign promises involves abusing the scapegoated populations which gives their support base some twisted sadistic pleasure. You're seeing it with Trump supporters, who cheer for people being hurt. Just random people, as long as they don't support Trump. Bernie is also a populist candidate, I worry what might happen with him too. His supporters are just as rabid and mean spirited as Trump supporters.


This goes back to putting too much emphasis on the bases (Who are fringe) and totally disregarding the middle of the electorate. The media is a big driver of this and it's why we can't get anything done. I don't want rich people taxed at 70% but I don't feel they should be taxed very low either but automatically if I don't agree with the Robert Reich CNN talking point I am for giving the rich a free ride on taxes. It never gets to the discussion of what is fair.

Same with guns and immigration. If you are for any sort of gun ownership and don't agree with banning all guns you are a crazy NRA guy who wants no gun laws. If you want to see any sort of border control you are automatically a racist who hates Hispanics. It's this insanity that got Trump elected because the middle of the electorate will speak and vote they way they want. They have obviously been saying they don't want the high tax, nanny state open border utopia but instead of listening they get branded at far right whacks that listened to Russia and are ignored, hence Trump wins the election.

We need to take a long hard look at the media and how it's trying to control society. They are more of a threat than this Russia disinformation bunk we have been pedaled for three years.
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LCDFlight
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:46 pm

mbmbos wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Not at all. There are many examples of identity politics on all sides. Having "pride marches" and the like can be a good thing, but it can also be a slippery slope to very, very bad things. Identity politics are politics that are NOT consistent between genders, creeds and colors. That's what they are in a nutshell. These are the politics Dr. King was fighting against when he urged people to judge one another, not based on their identity, but on the content of their character.

A good reason to hire / elect someone is a good reason to fire somebody too. So that shouldn't be based on what gender, creed or color they are.



1. "Having 'pride marches' and the like can be a good thing, but it can also be a slippery slope to very, very bad things.

Really? Please list those very, very bad things.

2. "Identity politics are politics that are NOT consistent between genders, creeds and colors."

Really? How so? Please provide examples.

3. "These are the politics Dr. King was fighting against when he urged people to judge one another, not based on their identity, but on the content of their character."

You are presumptuous to assert what you think Dr. King was saying. Dr. King envisioned a society where skin color was not a factor. To conclude King refused to acknowledge discrimination is absurd. And ignorant. And it demonstrates your bias more than it says anything about King.


1. Charlottesville is an example of a pride march that wasn't good.
2. Jim Crow laws. Racial preferences in college admissions.
3. Why would you call that somehow "presumptuous?" It is a factual quote. Yet you are unable or unwilling to process Dr. King's message.
 
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:51 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
We need to take a long hard look at the media and how it's trying to control society. They are more of a threat than this Russia disinformation bunk we have been pedaled for three years.

Without going into everything, I will note that NOT buying into "the media" on it, the Russia disinformation effort and actions are very real. And it is very much a threat and important to be aware of and work to protect our systems from. (Don't know any easy way to do that. I just have to go and independently review and verify a lot of things.)

Tugg
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:08 pm

Identity politics matter to many people. and currently the GOP panders to the Older , conservative , heterosexual evangelical identity, while the Democrats work towards the liberal , age enveloping, non religion centrist identity.

The drop out of Cory Booker does not change this. It only means he was not seen as a good candidate at this point. Identity politics will continue where both sides see and advantage, and as has been pointed out, Trump plays this card just as well as any other President, and perhaps more so as he is a President that strongly panders to the base of his core party.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:09 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
With the recent news of Cory Booker dropping out of the Democratic race https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/p ... e=Homepage
How long till this 'identity politics' game will bite back on the Democrats. Despite calling themselves the party of 'minorities' it appears that they haven't treated candidates of color the same way they wish to mandate and obligate the rest of American society?

Is the Democratic party racist? Maybe not. Are all Democrats racist? I am sure they are not. So you can see why identity politics is not something good to keep pushing.

I hope the stop using this game, its extremely dangerous.

Concern trolling from the folks FKA the southern white (racist) democrats, ie today's republicans. Here is a list of all the people you are fooling:
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:19 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
With the recent news of Cory Booker dropping out of the Democratic race https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/p ... e=Homepage
How long till this 'identity politics' game will bite back on the Democrats. Despite calling themselves the party of 'minorities' it appears that they haven't treated candidates of color the same way they wish to mandate and obligate the rest of American society?

Is the Democratic party racist? Maybe not. Are all Democrats racist? I am sure they are not. So you can see why identity politics is not something good to keep pushing.

I hope the stop using this game, its extremely dangerous.

Concern trolling from the folks FKA the southern white (racist) democrats, ie today's republicans. Here is a list of all the people you are fooling:


Nice shot, I am not white.

Sample of another similar try: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 590841002/

During a guest radio appearance, a CNN legal analyst said the show's host, who is black, has benefited from "white privilege."

The segment aired Tuesday during a SiriusXM show hosted by David Webb, who is also host FOX Nation’s Reality Check. His guest during the segment was Areva Martin, a civil rights attorney and CNN legal analyst.

According to a clip posted to Twitter, Webb details his rise in the media, saying he always saw his qualifications as a more important issue than his color.

"Well, David, that’s a whole 'nother long conversation about white privilege, the things that you have the privilege of doing that people of color don’t have the privilege of," said Martin.

When Webb asks how he benefits, Martin said it's "by virtue of being a white male."

"Areva, I hate to break it to you, but you should’ve been better prepped. I’m black," said Webb.

Webb then scolds Martin for making the assumption, going through his qualifications ultimately leading him to Fox News "where I’m told apparently blacks aren’t supposed to work."

"Yet, you come with this assumption, and you go to white privilege. That’s actually insulting," Webb said.
Martin apologized, noting "my people gave me wrong information."
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:40 pm

Another Democratic candidate drops out and, suddenly, Democrats are as racist as Republicans.

The only ones screaming about racial identity are Republicans. They hate diversity. They hate minorities. Marco Rubio dropped out in 2016 so Republicans need to stop with the identity politics and saying they love minorities.
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:41 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Nice shot, I am not white.

Who said you were white?
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:43 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
We need to take a long hard look at the media and how it's trying to control society. They are more of a threat than this Russia disinformation bunk we have been pedaled for three years.


Especially the media outlets screaming about democrat socialist policies and calling every non-Republican candidate socialist and interchanging "democrat" and "socialist".
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:54 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
We need to take a long hard look at the media and how it's trying to control society. They are more of a threat than this Russia disinformation bunk we have been pedaled for three years.


Especially the media outlets screaming about democrat socialist policies and calling every non-Republican candidate socialist and interchanging "democrat" and "socialist".



Interstingly, even Bernie Sanders seemed concerned about 'identity politics' when he told Warren a woman can't win. https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/13/politics ... index.html

That evening, Sanders expressed frustration at what he saw as a growing focus among Democrats on identity politics, according to one of the people familiar with the conversation. Warren told Sanders she disagreed with his assessment that a woman could not win, three of the four sources said.


So even some people on the left are not liking this game.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
Another Democratic candidate drops out and, suddenly, Democrats are as racist as Republicans.

The only ones screaming about racial identity are Republicans. They hate diversity. They hate minorities. Marco Rubio dropped out in 2016 so Republicans need to stop with the identity politics and saying they love minorities.


Well, if the dems' are the party of minorities as they always say why is this happening? and btw I haven't heard Republicans say anything about this. As you can see Cory Booker was already saying how angry he is for the lack of 'diversity'.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:04 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Another Democratic candidate drops out and, suddenly, Democrats are as racist as Republicans.

The only ones screaming about racial identity are Republicans. They hate diversity. They hate minorities. Marco Rubio dropped out in 2016 so Republicans need to stop with the identity politics and saying they love minorities.


Well, if the dems' are the party of minorities as they always say why is this happening? and btw I haven't heard Republicans say anything about this. As you can see Cory Booker was already saying how angry he is for the lack of 'diversity'.

Because Republicans don't care? They just get whiter and angrier, particularly as evidenced by their membership and the (lack of) diversity in their congressmen. On the bright side they're more diverse than libertarians, which is not saying a lot.
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AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:08 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Another Democratic candidate drops out and, suddenly, Democrats are as racist as Republicans.

The only ones screaming about racial identity are Republicans. They hate diversity. They hate minorities. Marco Rubio dropped out in 2016 so Republicans need to stop with the identity politics and saying they love minorities.


Well, if the dems' are the party of minorities as they always say why is this happening? and btw I haven't heard Republicans say anything about this. As you can see Cory Booker was already saying how angry he is for the lack of 'diversity'.

Because Republicans don't care? They just get whiter and angrier, particularly as evidenced by their membership and the (lack of) diversity in their congressmen. On the bright side they're more diverse than libertarians, which is not saying a lot.


So you seem to agree with the fallout of Booker dropping out and no 'diversity' in the primaries? Then we can agree Dems and Republicans are the same in this subject?

And how destructive and dangerous this can be, even Sanders saying its not good to play this game, now that this is coming back and biting the party?
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
BN747
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:24 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.


How old are you? Any adult who graduated from High School knows that was the 'I am white vote for me because...' was the only qualifying claim 'allowed' in politics from America's first day of being a nation in 1776.

So I guess that's the longest running 'Identity Politics' candidate of time.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:38 pm

BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.


How old are you? Any adult who graduated from High School knows that was the 'I am white vote for me because...' was the only qualifying claim 'allowed' in politics from America's first day of being a nation in 1776.

So I guess that's the longest running 'Identity Politics' candidate of time.

BN747


Here we go again with America is bad because it was founded by white men... bla bla bla.

If you can find out that for example in Iran a country for which you often try to defend or clarify their leaders' position, they have a sharia law judicial system. How are women treated there? Lets stop this BS that America is bad the rest of the world is good BS.

You or any other Democratic in this forum can't answer why the party of the 'minority' can't even have a Latino or an African American as nominees in their primaries. When most of their electorate is mostly composed of people on those groups. You have a bunch of old white billionaires/millionaires in the race. Lets face it, using this game is not good and is dangerous, this is backfiring on the dems horribly.

As for age I am what you call a 'millennial'. Thanks!
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:45 pm

BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.


How old are you? Any adult who graduated from High School knows that was the 'I am white vote for me because...' was the only qualifying claim 'allowed' in politics from America's first day of being a nation in 1776.

So I guess that's the longest running 'Identity Politics' candidate of time.

BN747


Oh brother, here come the people saying America is morally inferior to other countries, especially for marginalized people. I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who was once sold as SLAVE for $160 to work on a fishing boat off Thailand (he is from Burma and was stuck in the Thai refugee camps). Here, his family is safe and he has 1-2 kids in the military, and still travels back to Thailand for tourism. He holds a US passport, after coming as a refugee. I wonder if we could ask him if he feels marginalized by the US. I wonder if people would listen to him or they just keep repeating what the elite professional media told them about justice.

There is a difference between imaginary problems and real problems. People in Syria, Venezuela, Burma have real problems. Our life is like a paradise.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:55 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.


How old are you? Any adult who graduated from High School knows that was the 'I am white vote for me because...' was the only qualifying claim 'allowed' in politics from America's first day of being a nation in 1776.

So I guess that's the longest running 'Identity Politics' candidate of time.

BN747


Oh brother, here come the people saying America is morally inferior to other countries, especially for marginalized people. I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who was once sold as SLAVE for $160 to work on a fishing boat off Thailand (he is from Burma and was stuck in the Thai refugee camps). Here, his family is safe and he has 1-2 kids in the military, and still travels back to Thailand for tourism. He holds a US passport, after coming as a refugee. I wonder if we could ask him if he feels marginalized by the US. I wonder if people would listen to him or they just keep repeating what the elite professional media told them about justice.

There is a difference between imaginary problems and real problems. People in Syria, Venezuela, Burma have real problems. Our life is like a paradise.


Yep, the role of the left is to continuously find 'problems' to tell us how bad we are doing and how bad we were. Unless they can never be elected. Then find us and tell us that we are victims..
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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seb146
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:06 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Another Democratic candidate drops out and, suddenly, Democrats are as racist as Republicans.

The only ones screaming about racial identity are Republicans. They hate diversity. They hate minorities. Marco Rubio dropped out in 2016 so Republicans need to stop with the identity politics and saying they love minorities.


Well, if the dems' are the party of minorities as they always say why is this happening? and btw I haven't heard Republicans say anything about this. As you can see Cory Booker was already saying how angry he is for the lack of 'diversity'.


When have Democrats ever said they are the party of minorities? Because they pass legislation that makes minorities equal to white heterosexual evangelicals? That's the only reason I can see.

Besides, Republicans are the ones going on and on about Booker dropping out and minorities in the Democratic party.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:13 am

LCDFlight wrote:
BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Disgusted? Saying I am white vote for me because I am like you is what led to the holocaust! Using your race for a political means is disgusting on the left or the right. Period.


How old are you? Any adult who graduated from High School knows that was the 'I am white vote for me because...' was the only qualifying claim 'allowed' in politics from America's first day of being a nation in 1776.

So I guess that's the longest running 'Identity Politics' candidate of time.

BN747


Oh brother, here come the people saying America is morally inferior to other countries, especially for marginalized people. I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who was once sold as SLAVE for $160 to work on a fishing boat off Thailand (he is from Burma and was stuck in the Thai refugee camps). Here, his family is safe and he has 1-2 kids in the military, and still travels back to Thailand for tourism. He holds a US passport, after coming as a refugee. I wonder if we could ask him if he feels marginalized by the US. I wonder if people would listen to him or they just keep repeating what the elite professional media told them about justice.

I can't tell if this charming story is a massive self own on purpose or you just have no clue what republicans are doing to reduce refugees coming into the country. He likely would not have been let in today--certainly not Texas today thanks to good christian Abbott!

AirWorthy99 wrote:
You or any other Democratic in this forum can't answer why the party of the 'minority' can't even have a Latino or an African American as nominees in their primaries.

Could be because you're the only one that thinks identity politics is skin deep.
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Lets face it, using this game is not good and is dangerous, this is backfiring on the dems horribly.

Midterms and reality would prove you are wrong. But let's face it--you sure love identity politics when it comes to banning Muslims/transgender people/immigrants/you-name-it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:21 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
BN747 wrote:

How old are you? Any adult who graduated from High School knows that was the 'I am white vote for me because...' was the only qualifying claim 'allowed' in politics from America's first day of being a nation in 1776.

So I guess that's the longest running 'Identity Politics' candidate of time.

BN747


Oh brother, here come the people saying America is morally inferior to other countries, especially for marginalized people. I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who was once sold as SLAVE for $160 to work on a fishing boat off Thailand (he is from Burma and was stuck in the Thai refugee camps). Here, his family is safe and he has 1-2 kids in the military, and still travels back to Thailand for tourism. He holds a US passport, after coming as a refugee. I wonder if we could ask him if he feels marginalized by the US. I wonder if people would listen to him or they just keep repeating what the elite professional media told them about justice.

I can't tell if this charming story is a massive self own on purpose or you just have no clue what republicans are doing to reduce refugees coming into the country. He likely would not have been let in today--certainly not Texas today thanks to good christian Abbott!

AirWorthy99 wrote:
You or any other Democratic in this forum can't answer why the party of the 'minority' can't even have a Latino or an African American as nominees in their primaries.

Could be because you're the only one that thinks identity politics is skin deep.
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Lets face it, using this game is not good and is dangerous, this is backfiring on the dems horribly.

Midterms and reality would prove you are wrong. But let's face it--you sure love identity politics when it comes to banning Muslims/transgender people/immigrants/you-name-it.


Don't put words on my mouth, I don't agree with banning anyone.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:22 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Oh brother, here come the people saying America is morally inferior to other countries, especially for marginalized people. I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who was once sold as SLAVE for $160 to work on a fishing boat off Thailand (he is from Burma and was stuck in the Thai refugee camps). Here, his family is safe and he has 1-2 kids in the military, and still travels back to Thailand for tourism. He holds a US passport, after coming as a refugee. I wonder if we could ask him if he feels marginalized by the US. I wonder if people would listen to him or they just keep repeating what the elite professional media told them about justice.

I can't tell if this charming story is a massive self own on purpose or you just have no clue what republicans are doing to reduce refugees coming into the country. He likely would not have been let in today--certainly not Texas today thanks to good christian Abbott!

AirWorthy99 wrote:
You or any other Democratic in this forum can't answer why the party of the 'minority' can't even have a Latino or an African American as nominees in their primaries.

Could be because you're the only one that thinks identity politics is skin deep.
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Lets face it, using this game is not good and is dangerous, this is backfiring on the dems horribly.

Midterms and reality would prove you are wrong. But let's face it--you sure love identity politics when it comes to banning Muslims/transgender people/immigrants/you-name-it.


Don't put words on my mouth, I don't agree with banning anyone.

Well it's your party, buddy. So enjoy your identity politics.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
BN747
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:32 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
BN747 wrote:

How old are you? Any adult who graduated from High School knows that was the 'I am white vote for me because...' was the only qualifying claim 'allowed' in politics from America's first day of being a nation in 1776.

So I guess that's the longest running 'Identity Politics' candidate of time.

BN747


Oh brother, here come the people saying America is morally inferior to other countries, especially for marginalized people. I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who was once sold as SLAVE for $160 to work on a fishing boat off Thailand (he is from Burma and was stuck in the Thai refugee camps). Here, his family is safe and he has 1-2 kids in the military, and still travels back to Thailand for tourism. He holds a US passport, after coming as a refugee. I wonder if we could ask him if he feels marginalized by the US. I wonder if people would listen to him or they just keep repeating what the elite professional media told them about justice.

There is a difference between imaginary problems and real problems. People in Syria, Venezuela, Burma have real problems. Our life is like a paradise.


Yep, the role of the left is to continuously find 'problems' to tell us how bad we are doing and how bad we were. Unless they can never be elected. Then find us and tell us that we are victims..


And BOTH of you two are exactly why the ignorance of the past (America's horrific beginnings) will live in the future.

Since you TWO geniuses of all things politics are far worse than any cherry-picking Bible thumper. At least they know the bad parts of the Bible are there - somewhere but they make sure to avoid those passages.

You guys, you unique group of 'politically juiced up Americans' hate the bad history that is America's past, you hate it when people discuss it, you hate hearing others discuss it, you hate it all ..period and just one or two reasons. (should you classify yourselves as sane).

Like all conservatives, the nature of your politics is cemented in a 'worry about me first' mentality followed up by my wife, family and those like me - full stop!
Dividing and making enemies of everyone else comes easy as making toast for that mindset.

American conservatives aren't the first to hold that view, but Americans certainly have taken it to a religious cult-like level, they really mean everyone (Dems, the Chinese, brown-skinned Undocumented (they call them illegal aliens), Arabs (except the rich Saudis, only the RICH Saudis), the Iranians, soon to be the Iraqis and there has been a labeling of this nature since day one. And on day one (actually was American brand Slavery)... since that divide all the efforts to confront, address and atone for it's past wrongs is met by virulent resistance at every turn...by people like you, both of you as well as the others on this board that I've done those tango with. Plenty of denials...but no factual refuting of any kind.

The second reason is simple. You don't care. You don't know and it's not important. You people like to just jump into 1950's America's Leave it to Beaver days, everything was perfect and everyone happy to be Americans - end of story.

How on this Earth can you two people convince yourselves (let alone anyone else) that you know the course/actions best to be taken by America (charting it's future) when you intentionally choose to ignore, dismiss disrespect and dishonor it's factual past/history? How?

America did not start then and it has an interwoven link with it's sordid history and no matter how hard you try, you cannot separate it or deny it.

You great defenders of America, most likely never served in the military and yet you're so gung-ho America...which America?

Certainly not the one based on the US Constitution!
Because if you did, you WOULD have huge issues with this administration pimping our Troops to Saudi Arabia for cash.
You'd have a problem with chicken-shit leader publicly attacked American War heroes and veterans - alive and dead.
You'd have a problem with a leader abusing the courts systems and disrespecting members of the Judiciary based solely on their race.

During the Obama years you toughed it out by 'critiquing his policies'..which in dog whistle speak is racist vitriolic abuse disguised as 'criticism' and luckily for those of us who care about the prosperity of America and it's vision of a greater version of itself...know that it cannot be achieved by being led by an Pathological Lying Sociopath.

So what LCDFlight, you met one single struggling guy from SE Asia (I've live all over that region) and have feelings about his struggle - that makes you an expert of international struggles, huh?

Try experiencing a few 100s more (it's called living life and mix it up a bit re:races) then come share what you've learned because with that millie nillie story it just isn't anything at all.

BN747
Last edited by BN747 on Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:51 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
I can't tell if this charming story is a massive self own on purpose or you just have no clue what republicans are doing to reduce refugees coming into the country. He likely would not have been let in today--certainly not Texas today thanks to good christian Abbott!


Could be because you're the only one that thinks identity politics is skin deep.

Midterms and reality would prove you are wrong. But let's face it--you sure love identity politics when it comes to banning Muslims/transgender people/immigrants/you-name-it.


Don't put words on my mouth, I don't agree with banning anyone.

Well it's your party, buddy. So enjoy your identity politics.



Those are not identity politics, those are policies, many of which not everyone agrees. Nice trying to shut me down like that, nice try. Are you the party of deporting 2.5 million people? Those aren't Trump numbers. That's 44.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 10384
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:52 am

Since you dislike identity politics in all its forms, you’ll be devoting a new thread to this gem as well?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... muslim?amp
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 299
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 am

BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Oh brother, here come the people saying America is morally inferior to other countries, especially for marginalized people. I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who was once sold as SLAVE for $160 to work on a fishing boat off Thailand (he is from Burma and was stuck in the Thai refugee camps). Here, his family is safe and he has 1-2 kids in the military, and still travels back to Thailand for tourism. He holds a US passport, after coming as a refugee. I wonder if we could ask him if he feels marginalized by the US. I wonder if people would listen to him or they just keep repeating what the elite professional media told them about justice.

There is a difference between imaginary problems and real problems. People in Syria, Venezuela, Burma have real problems. Our life is like a paradise.


Yep, the role of the left is to continuously find 'problems' to tell us how bad we are doing and how bad we were. Unless they can never be elected. Then find us and tell us that we are victims..


And BOTH of you two are exactly why the ignorance of the past (America's horrific beginnings) will live in the future.

Since you TWO geniuses of all things politics are far worse than any cherry-picking Bible thumper. At least they know the bad parts of the Bible are there - somewhere but they make sure to avoid those passages.

You guys, you unique group of 'politically juiced up Americans' hate the bad history that is America's past, you hate it when people discuss it, you hate hearing others discuss it, you hate it all ..period and just one or two reasons. (should you classify yourselves as sane).

Like all conservatives, the nature of your politics is cemented in a 'worry about me first' mentality followed up by my wife, family and those like me - full stop!
Dividing and making enemies of everyone else comes easy as making toast for that mindset.

American conservatives aren't the first to hold that view, but Americans certainly have taken it to a religious cult-like level, they really mean everyone (Dems, the Chinese, brown-skinned Undocumented (they call them illegal aliens), Arabs (except the rich Saudis, only the RICH Saudis), the Iranians, soon to be the Iraqis and there has been a labeling of this nature since day one. And on day one (actually was American brand Slavery)... since that divide all the efforts to confront, address and atone for it's past wrongs is met by virulent resistance at every turn...by people like you, both of you as well as the others on this board that I've done those tango with. Plenty of denials...but no factual refuting of any kind.

The second reason is simple. You don't care. You don't know and it's not important. You people like to just jump into 1950's America's Leave it to Beaver days, everything was perfect and everyone happy to be Americans - end of story.

How on this Earth can you two people convince yourselves (let alone anyone else) that you know the course/actions best to be taken by America (charting it's future) when you intentionally choose to ignore, dismiss disrespect and dishonor it's factual past/history? How?

America did not start then and it has an interwoven link with it's sordid history and no matter how hard you try, you cannot separate it or deny it.

You great defenders of America, most likely never served in the military and yet you're so gung-ho America...which America?

Certainly not the one based on the US Constitution!
Because if you did, you WOULD have huge issues with this administration pimping our Troops to Saudi Arabia for cash.
You'd have a problem with chicken-shit leader publicly attacked American War heroes and veterans - alive and dead.
You'd have a problem with a leader abusing the courts systems and disrespecting members of the Judiciary based solely on their race.

During the Obama years you toughed it out by 'critiquing his policies'..which in dog whistle speak is racist vitriolic abuse disguised as 'criticism' and luckily for those of us who care about the prosperity of America and it's vision of a greater version of itself...know that it cannot be achieved by being led by an Pathological Lying Sociopath.

So what LCDFlight, you met one single struggling guy from SE Asia (I've live all over that region) and have feelings about his struggle - that makes you an expert of international struggles, huh?

Try experiencing a few 100s more (it's called living life and mix it up a bit re:races) then come share what you've learned because with that millie nillie story it just isn't anything at all.

BN747


Well guess what, because I have lived outside of America many times, lived in many different countries. Yes, all of which are very nice, and nice people I know a lot about other countries.

But as with America, many countries did have struggles, and wars, and issues, and currently still have, like any other country. Nonetheless the people from those nations are proud of their heritage, of their homeland. Contrary to many in the left who constantly say how bad and awful our country is, and how bad is our history. Guess what, almost NO country has a perfect history, and if you believe that, then you are insane.

I don't believe in American exceptionalism, because nothing or no one is perfect, but believe me after living in many parts, I love every square foot of it, with its faults, and its greatness.

Unlike you on the left who constantly think that you will find utopia somewhere in sometime, that's impossible. And to me this is the closes to perfection there is.

So we don't need your anti-American lecturing here, I understand that hating America is hip, and is what most of the extreme left is doing but its destructive and won't get us anywhere.

There was a time when Liberals were the most tolerant and open minded people, it turns out Conservatives are now that.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10384
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:05 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
BN747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yep, the role of the left is to continuously find 'problems' to tell us how bad we are doing and how bad we were. Unless they can never be elected. Then find us and tell us that we are victims..


And BOTH of you two are exactly why the ignorance of the past (America's horrific beginnings) will live in the future.

Since you TWO geniuses of all things politics are far worse than any cherry-picking Bible thumper. At least they know the bad parts of the Bible are there - somewhere but they make sure to avoid those passages.

You guys, you unique group of 'politically juiced up Americans' hate the bad history that is America's past, you hate it when people discuss it, you hate hearing others discuss it, you hate it all ..period and just one or two reasons. (should you classify yourselves as sane).

Like all conservatives, the nature of your politics is cemented in a 'worry about me first' mentality followed up by my wife, family and those like me - full stop!
Dividing and making enemies of everyone else comes easy as making toast for that mindset.

American conservatives aren't the first to hold that view, but Americans certainly have taken it to a religious cult-like level, they really mean everyone (Dems, the Chinese, brown-skinned Undocumented (they call them illegal aliens), Arabs (except the rich Saudis, only the RICH Saudis), the Iranians, soon to be the Iraqis and there has been a labeling of this nature since day one. And on day one (actually was American brand Slavery)... since that divide all the efforts to confront, address and atone for it's past wrongs is met by virulent resistance at every turn...by people like you, both of you as well as the others on this board that I've done those tango with. Plenty of denials...but no factual refuting of any kind.

The second reason is simple. You don't care. You don't know and it's not important. You people like to just jump into 1950's America's Leave it to Beaver days, everything was perfect and everyone happy to be Americans - end of story.

How on this Earth can you two people convince yourselves (let alone anyone else) that you know the course/actions best to be taken by America (charting it's future) when you intentionally choose to ignore, dismiss disrespect and dishonor it's factual past/history? How?

America did not start then and it has an interwoven link with it's sordid history and no matter how hard you try, you cannot separate it or deny it.

You great defenders of America, most likely never served in the military and yet you're so gung-ho America...which America?

Certainly not the one based on the US Constitution!
Because if you did, you WOULD have huge issues with this administration pimping our Troops to Saudi Arabia for cash.
You'd have a problem with chicken-shit leader publicly attacked American War heroes and veterans - alive and dead.
You'd have a problem with a leader abusing the courts systems and disrespecting members of the Judiciary based solely on their race.

During the Obama years you toughed it out by 'critiquing his policies'..which in dog whistle speak is racist vitriolic abuse disguised as 'criticism' and luckily for those of us who care about the prosperity of America and it's vision of a greater version of itself...know that it cannot be achieved by being led by an Pathological Lying Sociopath.

So what LCDFlight, you met one single struggling guy from SE Asia (I've live all over that region) and have feelings about his struggle - that makes you an expert of international struggles, huh?

Try experiencing a few 100s more (it's called living life and mix it up a bit re:races) then come share what you've learned because with that millie nillie story it just isn't anything at all.

BN747


Well guess what, because I have lived outside of America many times, lived in many different countries. Yes, all of which are very nice, and nice people I know a lot about other countries.

But as with America, many countries did have struggles, and wars, and issues, and currently still have, like any other country. Nonetheless the people from those nations are proud of their heritage, of their homeland. Contrary to many in the left who constantly say how bad and awful our country is, and how bad is our history. Guess what, almost NO country has a perfect history, and if you believe that, then you are insane.

I don't believe in American exceptionalism, because nothing or no one is perfect, but believe me after living in many parts, I love every square foot of it, with its faults, and its greatness.

Unlike you on the left who constantly think that you will find utopia somewhere in sometime, that's impossible. And to me this is the closes to perfection there is.

So we don't need your anti-American lecturing here, I understand that hating America is hip, and is what most of the extreme left is doing but its destructive and won't get us anywhere.

There was a time when Liberals were the most tolerant and open minded people, it turns out Conservatives are now that.


Where have you lived abroad and for how long? What parts of the US have you lived in as well?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

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