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Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:42 pm
by AirWorthy99
Like I said, this is a very dangerous game, here we go last night with the debate, Warren using the gender card:

‘This is going to divide us on the left’

Young progressives in Iowa fear that an unwelcome fight over sexism between Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders might end up harming both of them.


With 20 days remaining until Iowa’s first-in-the-nation nominating contest, two of the leading candidates were now engaged in a zero-sum, identity-based conflict that could reshape the Democratic race.


https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ren-099217

This self-destructive mantra is now hurting them more than anyone else.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:44 pm
by StarAC17
AirWorthy99 wrote:
With the recent news of Cory Booker dropping out of the Democratic race https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/p ... e=Homepage
How long till this 'identity politics' game will bite back on the Democrats. Despite calling themselves the party of 'minorities' it appears that they haven't treated candidates of color the same way they wish to mandate and obligate the rest of American society?

Is the Democratic party racist? Maybe not. Are all Democrats racist? I am sure they are not. So you can see why identity politics is not something good to keep pushing.

I hope the stop using this game, its extremely dangerous.


So at least the democrats actually have minorities running and winning congressional seats, senate seats and governorships (or getting close in the case of Abrams and Gillum in 2018).

In this cycle sorry to say but the minorities were bad candidates, this isn't racist to say that and they were able to run and given a fair shot.
Kamala was not authentic and very scripted and did not ignite people to support her. Booker who I think has potential in the future was a victim of a lot of saturation in this election cycle.

Authenticity sells, which is why Warren is faltering and why Buttigeg and Klobochar won't get far. The latter two come off as fake shysters IMO. It is also why Andrew Yang has gotten as far as he has, he is authentic and has a platform.

Both of the leading democrats are not running on identity politics but the issues, for the most part .

- Sanders believes the system is corrupt and broken and is fueling a progressive movement to challenge the status quo. He says what he will do and how he will achieve it and has been saying the same thing for 30 years. He wants to blow up the system of money in politics.
- Biden believes that things in 2015 were fine and Trump is a blip on the radar and with him winning and returning to the Obama years things will be fine and Trump will be long forgotten.
- Warren is a mix between the two.

Those are the 3 I will mention which are the only 3 I think have a chance.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:50 pm
by Aaron747
StarAC17 wrote:
- Sanders believes the system is corrupt and broken and is fueling a progressive movement to challenge the status quo. He says what he will do and how he will achieve it and has been saying the same thing for 30 years. He wants to blow up the system of money in politics.
- Biden believes that things in 2015 were fine and Trump is a blip on the radar and with him winning and returning to the Obama years things will be fine and Trump will be long forgotten.
- Warren is a mix between the two.


You should replace all the pundits on TV with this concise summation ;)

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:47 pm
by seb146
Redd wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Redd wrote:

I'm not having a discussion with you on this topic, nor do I really want to. I was just pointing out your hypocrisy. Accusing someone of a straw man argument, after just using a straw man argument gets no one anywhere.


Republicans constantly use the "our identity is under attack" argument to get their base ginned up. Identity politics. Just like Democrats use "your rights are being taken away" argument to get their base ginned up. Problem is, the "Republican identity" is not nor has ever been under attack. Granting equality to various Americans is not attacking rights of white evangelical heterosexuals. Republicans twist it to be but it is not. THIS is the discussion we must have.


I know you probably won't agree, and that's fine, but as I see it, both sides are playing exactly the same games. Every group wants to blame their own shortfalls and problems on another group, and in the case of America, from an outside point of view, women, African Americans, homosexuals, new genderfluid unicorns, Hispanics all blame the white Christian hetero male. No one want's to take any ownership for anything any more. It's pathetic. Now, I will agree that some men who belong to that group are a cause of historical and current problems, but the other hundred or so million are probably getting sick and tired of being portrayed as the devil for everyone else's problems.

Any issue a white man raises, just about any man really, is attacked by the left like an angry swarm of infuriated wasps, and then the left is perplexed as to why Trump is president...Trump is president because the extreme left has vilified men, especially white Christian men into putting up a big middle finger and voting for Trump.

Trying to find people who take ownership for their own shortfalls is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.


And here is why I do not agree with you: I see exactly what is going on. Republicans are trying to roll back equality while Democrats are trying to level the playing field. Democrats wanted the Voting Rights Act extended. It was not extended because of a Republican majority. Democrats extended marriage to LGBTQ people. Republicans are taking those rights back. Democrats extended protections to LGBTQ people in the military. Republicans took those back. Add to that Republicans giving special rights to Christians.

You can not use the "both sides do it" when facts clearly show both sides do not do it.

Stop and think about issues being raised by white men then ask yourself "why do Democrats not like this?". The answer is NOT "because this issue is raised by white men" but, rather, something is being taken or held back for others. Instead of playing identity politics, maybe Republicans should use critical thinking?

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:08 am
by apodino
I hate identity politics. Martin Luther King said a "Man should be judged by the content of his character and not the color of their skin." But this is not the way I see a lot of society working. Most of the Ivy League schools make it quite clear with their admissions standards that the color of someone's skin does matter. On the other side I have no doubt there is an implicit bias where many people distrust black males for whatever reason. I wish it wasn't this way.

What gets me even more is the double standard as far as minorities go. Tim Scott was the first Black Man to win a statewide election in the South since reconstruction, yet you hear very little about this and there was no congrats from the NAACP. Jeanean Hampton was the first Black Woman to ever win a statewide election in the South since reconstruction. Again not a word from anyone. Now KY has the first ever Black Attorney General. You guessed it, not a word. In the US Senate, there are actually as many minority Republicans as there are Democrats, but only the Democratic party is considered diverse.

I honestly wish the Census would not even ask about race or anything. Just find out how many people, period. Don't break us into groups or anything like that. We are all humans, and all deserve equal treatment.

And lastly, to Tom Perez. Your own debate policies are responsible for the lack of diversity on the stage. Deval Patrick is a perfectly capable debater who is still in the race, as is Tulsi Gabbard, but you chose to exclude them from the debate due to horrible rules. You say you are for the little guy, but your debate rules require you to be an elitist. I know you want more diversity. A couple of points. Diversity of ideas is the best kind of diversity. Yes you can have Black, Gay, White, Asian, Hispanic, Men, Women, and Transgender people all in the same caucus and call it diversity. But if they all think the same and all have the same ideas, do you really have diversity? Lastly, as far as achieving diversity, look in a mirror Tom Perez.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:11 am
by Aaron747
apodino wrote:
I hate identity politics. Martin Luther King said a "Man should be judged by the content of his character and not the color of their skin." But this is not the way I see a lot of society working. Most of the Ivy League schools make it quite clear with their admissions standards that the color of someone's skin does matter. On the other side I have no doubt there is an implicit bias where many people distrust black males for whatever reason. I wish it wasn't this way.

What gets me even more is the double standard as far as minorities go. Tim Scott was the first Black Man to win a statewide election in the South since reconstruction, yet you hear very little about this and there was no congrats from the NAACP. Jeanean Hampton was the first Black Woman to ever win a statewide election in the South since reconstruction. Again not a word from anyone. Now KY has the first ever Black Attorney General. You guessed it, not a word. In the US Senate, there are actually as many minority Republicans as there are Democrats, but only the Democratic party is considered diverse.

I honestly wish the Census would not even ask about race or anything. Just find out how many people, period. Don't break us into groups or anything like that. We are all humans, and all deserve equal treatment.

And lastly, to Tom Perez. Your own debate policies are responsible for the lack of diversity on the stage. Deval Patrick is a perfectly capable debater who is still in the race, as is Tulsi Gabbard, but you chose to exclude them from the debate due to horrible rules. You say you are for the little guy, but your debate rules require you to be an elitist. I know you want more diversity. A couple of points. Diversity of ideas is the best kind of diversity. Yes you can have Black, Gay, White, Asian, Hispanic, Men, Women, and Transgender people all in the same caucus and call it diversity. But if they all think the same and all have the same ideas, do you really have diversity? Lastly, as far as achieving diversity, look in a mirror Tom Perez.


Tom Perez is an abject failure - good on you for calling him out. He’ll never admit it but a lot of the DNC’s current wasted opportunities are squarely on his shoulders. Zero accountability.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:06 am
by SanDiegoLover
MaverickM11 wrote:
...policies based on...drumroll please...identity! I love how you're whining about identity politics but can't absolve yourself fast enough from your own, far uglier, identity politics. Never seen anyone back pedal so fast in my life. :rotfl:


You gotta love the people whining about identity politics as they have a death grip on their gun with one hand, the other hoisting a Confederate Rebel flag, as they scream about their “heritage”, and the US is a Christian founded nation, and decrying getting passed over for a promotion because of a “diversity hire” while blasting Democrats and pretending the Republican Party is a merit based organization that just so happens to be 100% white, male, old, STR8, and angry. Yet it’s “us” that has the problem. LOL!

And they honestly think we buy their claims that building the wall ISNT about keeping brown people out.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:04 pm
by apodino
SanDiegoLover wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
...policies based on...drumroll please...identity! I love how you're whining about identity politics but can't absolve yourself fast enough from your own, far uglier, identity politics. Never seen anyone back pedal so fast in my life. :rotfl:


You gotta love the people whining about identity politics as they have a death grip on their gun with one hand, the other hoisting a Confederate Rebel flag, as they scream about their “heritage”, and the US is a Christian founded nation, and decrying getting passed over for a promotion because of a “diversity hire” while blasting Democrats and pretending the Republican Party is a merit based organization that just so happens to be 100% white, male, old, STR8, and angry.

And they honestly think we buy their claims that building the wall ISNT about keeping brown people out.


100 percent white male old str8 huh? Let me list a few names for you.

Jeanean Hampton
Tim Scott
Mia Love
Marco Rubio
Ted Cruz
Ben Carson
Joni Ernst
Marsha Blackburn
Susan Collins
Lisa Murkowski
Jason Elliott
Daniel Cameron

All of these names I have listed and I could find hundreds more, are either Gay, Women, Black, or Hispanic. Not one person on this list is a straight white cis male, and all of these people are members of the republican party, and in a lot of these cases, are officeholders in confederate areas.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:06 pm
by apodino
Let me go a step further. If you look at the 2016 GOP primary, the only straight white male who did well was Trump. Cruz and Rubio were the other frontrunners, and I would argue that if you look at the debate stages in the 2016 GOP primary, and then look at the debate stage in Iowa the other night, the GOP primary stages were much more diverse than what we saw in Iowa the other night.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:54 pm
by BN747
apodino wrote:
SanDiegoLover wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
...policies based on...drumroll please...identity! I love how you're whining about identity politics but can't absolve yourself fast enough from your own, far uglier, identity politics. Never seen anyone back pedal so fast in my life. :rotfl:


You gotta love the people whining about identity politics as they have a death grip on their gun with one hand, the other hoisting a Confederate Rebel flag, as they scream about their “heritage”, and the US is a Christian founded nation, and decrying getting passed over for a promotion because of a “diversity hire” while blasting Democrats and pretending the Republican Party is a merit based organization that just so happens to be 100% white, male, old, STR8, and angry.

And they honestly think we buy their claims that building the wall ISNT about keeping brown people out.


100 percent white male old str8 huh? Let me list a few names for you.

Jeanean Hampton
Tim Scott
Mia Love
Marco Rubio
Ted Cruz
Ben Carson
Joni Ernst
Marsha Blackburn
Susan Collins
Lisa Murkowski
Jason Elliott
Daniel Cameron

All of these names I have listed and I could find hundreds more, are either Gay, Women, Black, or Hispanic. Not one person on this list is a straight white cis male, and all of these people are members of the republican party, and in a lot of these cases, are officeholders in confederate areas.


Yeah but when all them line up behind the 'all white conservatives males' that they all follow, their individually (sex, race,whatever) becomes meaningless. The women will rail against rights of womens issues, the black ones are the perfect models defining an 'Uncle Tom'.

When a picture looks diverse - It doesn't mean it actually is. Those people do not represent is TRUE diversity! It looks like it..but it isn't because the minds were only independent in choosing to walk the walk of ancient oppressive minds the nation has every seen in the modern era.

BN747

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:08 pm
by seb146
apodino wrote:
SanDiegoLover wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
...policies based on...drumroll please...identity! I love how you're whining about identity politics but can't absolve yourself fast enough from your own, far uglier, identity politics. Never seen anyone back pedal so fast in my life. :rotfl:


You gotta love the people whining about identity politics as they have a death grip on their gun with one hand, the other hoisting a Confederate Rebel flag, as they scream about their “heritage”, and the US is a Christian founded nation, and decrying getting passed over for a promotion because of a “diversity hire” while blasting Democrats and pretending the Republican Party is a merit based organization that just so happens to be 100% white, male, old, STR8, and angry.

And they honestly think we buy their claims that building the wall ISNT about keeping brown people out.


100 percent white male old str8 huh? Let me list a few names for you.

Jeanean Hampton
Tim Scott
Mia Love
Marco Rubio
Ted Cruz
Ben Carson
Joni Ernst
Marsha Blackburn
Susan Collins
Lisa Murkowski
Jason Elliott
Daniel Cameron

All of these names I have listed and I could find hundreds more, are either Gay, Women, Black, or Hispanic. Not one person on this list is a straight white cis male, and all of these people are members of the republican party, and in a lot of these cases, are officeholders in confederate areas.


I would suspect that some of them just accept the bad with whatever parts of the Republican platform they support. Rubio is from Florida, which is heavily anti-Castro just like the Republican party. Rubio may also support giving special rights to Christians, which the Republican party also supports.

I think it is more that the Republican party is an "all or nothing" and "my way or the highway" group. There are planks in the Democratic party platform that I am against. But, they support many things that I support that Republicans do not. So, I would rather hold my nose and vote Democrat than go against everything I believe in and vote Republican.

I know what I am about to say I am dead set against, but this is probably the one time where "both sides do it" can be applied. Now, excuse me while I give myself a salt scrub.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:11 pm
by MaverickM11
apodino wrote:
SanDiegoLover wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
...policies based on...drumroll please...identity! I love how you're whining about identity politics but can't absolve yourself fast enough from your own, far uglier, identity politics. Never seen anyone back pedal so fast in my life. :rotfl:


You gotta love the people whining about identity politics as they have a death grip on their gun with one hand, the other hoisting a Confederate Rebel flag, as they scream about their “heritage”, and the US is a Christian founded nation, and decrying getting passed over for a promotion because of a “diversity hire” while blasting Democrats and pretending the Republican Party is a merit based organization that just so happens to be 100% white, male, old, STR8, and angry.

And they honestly think we buy their claims that building the wall ISNT about keeping brown people out.


100 percent white male old str8 huh? Let me list a few names for you.

Jeanean Hampton
Tim Scott
Mia Love
Marco Rubio
Ted Cruz
Ben Carson
Joni Ernst
Marsha Blackburn
Susan Collins
Lisa Murkowski
Jason Elliott
Daniel Cameron

All of these names I have listed and I could find hundreds more, are either Gay, Women, Black, or Hispanic. Not one person on this list is a straight white cis male, and all of these people are members of the republican party, and in a lot of these cases, are officeholders in confederate areas.

100% is clearly an exaggeration but the disparity between the two parties could not be more stark. Plus remember Roy Cohn, Trump's muse, was a gay man that helped engineer the Lavender Scare, and who later died of AIDS while his fellow republicans and evangelicals were cackling with delight at the thought of thousands of dead gays. I wouldn't call that "diversity" a positive thing for the gay community.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:53 pm
by AirWorthy99
Wow ok so its only ‘diverse’ if they all believe the same liberal mantra. Ok so we are also changing the definition of diversity to be liberals, I am latino so soon enough I will be considered white because I am a conservative.

There was a time when liberals were the most tolerant and open minded people, how did we get here?

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:51 pm
by CitizenJustin
AirWorthy99 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
BN747 wrote:

How old are you? Any adult who graduated from High School knows that was the 'I am white vote for me because...' was the only qualifying claim 'allowed' in politics from America's first day of being a nation in 1776.

So I guess that's the longest running 'Identity Politics' candidate of time.

BN747


Oh brother, here come the people saying America is morally inferior to other countries, especially for marginalized people. I talked to a guy a couple weeks ago who was once sold as SLAVE for $160 to work on a fishing boat off Thailand (he is from Burma and was stuck in the Thai refugee camps). Here, his family is safe and he has 1-2 kids in the military, and still travels back to Thailand for tourism. He holds a US passport, after coming as a refugee. I wonder if we could ask him if he feels marginalized by the US. I wonder if people would listen to him or they just keep repeating what the elite professional media told them about justice.

There is a difference between imaginary problems and real problems. People in Syria, Venezuela, Burma have real problems. Our life is like a paradise.


Yep, the role of the left is to continuously find 'problems' to tell us how bad we are doing and how bad we were. Unless they can never be elected. Then find us and tell us that we are victims..



Identifying problems and finding ways to resolve them is a good thing. Improvement is a good thing. Once a country becomes complacent, they’re done. You sound like Rush Limbaugh ranting about how the left is the cause of all problems. You’re doing exactly what the politicians want. Instead of focusing on the very serious problems we face and our do nothing politicians, you’re worried about identity politics as if it’s going to bring about the apocalypse. Also, you’re unfairly targeting democrats and minorities, which says a lot about you.

Our infrastructure is crumbling, the middle class is withering away and countries continue to outpace us in just about everything. I think you have more important things to worry about.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:01 pm
by seb146
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Wow ok so its only ‘diverse’ if they all believe the same liberal mantra. Ok so we are also changing the definition of diversity to be liberals, I am latino so soon enough I will be considered white because I am a conservative.

There was a time when liberals were the most tolerant and open minded people, how did we get here?


One side trying to get as many Americans involved as possible from voting to medical care to education to adoption to religion and the other side is the Republican party. Not that hard to understand. Republican controlled states are making it more and more difficult for LGBTQ people to live, marry, and adopt. Republican held districts are white and hateful. I have seen it. I have been a part of it. "Tolerant" Republican evangelicals are the first ones out there shouting and demanding and threatening minorities leave and LGBTQ people have their rights taken away.

Actions speak louder than words. I trust "liberals" more than Republicans because of how "liberals" actually act and how Republicans actually act.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:42 pm
by jetero
Has anyone figured out his real "concern" yet? I keep on hearing "dangerous," but he seems to associate only "danger" with "being bad for Democrats." I'm not questioning his level of concern or fear . . . I mean, with like 40 posts out of 100, it must be getting to him. For the life of me, I can't figure out why.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:56 pm
by MaverickM11
jetero wrote:
Has anyone figured out his real "concern" yet? I keep on hearing "dangerous," but he seems to associate only "danger" with "being bad for Democrats." I'm not questioning his level of concern or fear . . . I mean, with like 40 posts out of 100, it must be getting to him. For the life of me, I can't figure out why.

Basically Bull Connor getting up on his high horse and tut-tuting Trudeau for wearing black face. Sure, it's bad, but the comparison is risible.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:28 pm
by jetero
MaverickM11 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Has anyone figured out his real "concern" yet? I keep on hearing "dangerous," but he seems to associate only "danger" with "being bad for Democrats." I'm not questioning his level of concern or fear . . . I mean, with like 40 posts out of 100, it must be getting to him. For the life of me, I can't figure out why.

Basically Bull Connor getting up on his high horse and tut-tuting Trudeau for wearing black face. Sure, it's bad, but the comparison is risible.


Oooooooo, now that does sound very dangerous.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:08 pm
by MaverickM11
jetero wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Has anyone figured out his real "concern" yet? I keep on hearing "dangerous," but he seems to associate only "danger" with "being bad for Democrats." I'm not questioning his level of concern or fear . . . I mean, with like 40 posts out of 100, it must be getting to him. For the life of me, I can't figure out why.

Basically Bull Connor getting up on his high horse and tut-tuting Trudeau for wearing black face. Sure, it's bad, but the comparison is risible.


Oooooooo, now that does sound very dangerous.

Did he already flame out?

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:38 pm
by jetero
MaverickM11 wrote:
jetero wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Basically Bull Connor getting up on his high horse and tut-tuting Trudeau for wearing black face. Sure, it's bad, but the comparison is risible.


Oooooooo, now that does sound very dangerous.

Did he already flame out?


Guess the topic became too dangerous.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:47 pm
by Aaron747
jetero wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
jetero wrote:

Oooooooo, now that does sound very dangerous.

Did he already flame out?


Guess the topic became too dangerous.


Mushrooms wither in heat.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:44 pm
by AirWorthy99
jetero wrote:
Has anyone figured out his real "concern" yet? I keep on hearing "dangerous," but he seems to associate only "danger" with "being bad for Democrats." I'm not questioning his level of concern or fear . . . I mean, with like 40 posts out of 100, it must be getting to him. For the life of me, I can't figure out why.


I understand you guys like to talk to each other and derail a topic to try and get it removed or locked if you don't like it. Nice try.

You all seem to agree impeaching Trump is necessary because he is a 'danger' to the constitution... and is of huge 'concern' to have him in power. While half of the country disagrees. Whereas on this subject, which you Democrats are feeling the pain (look at the Warren-Sanders war) you see no problem or nothing wrong with playing this game.

Good luck because exactly playing the identity politics like crazy in 2016 was what got Trump elected and might get him elected again if you fail to identify that its a real problem in politics and start really fighting for the issues of all not just for certain groups.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:02 pm
by MaverickM11
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Has anyone figured out his real "concern" yet? I keep on hearing "dangerous," but he seems to associate only "danger" with "being bad for Democrats." I'm not questioning his level of concern or fear . . . I mean, with like 40 posts out of 100, it must be getting to him. For the life of me, I can't figure out why.


I understand you guys like to talk to each other and derail a topic to try and get it removed or locked if you don't like it. Nice try.

You all seem to agree impeaching Trump is necessary because he is a 'danger' to the constitution... and is of huge 'concern' to have him in power. While half of the country disagrees. Whereas on this subject, which you Democrats are feeling the pain (look at the Warren-Sanders war) you see no problem or nothing wrong with playing this game.

Good luck because exactly playing the identity politics like crazy in 2016 was what got Trump elected and might get him elected again if you fail to identify that its a real problem in politics and start really fighting for the issues of all not just for certain groups.

His identity politics--Muslim ban, blacks living in "sh!t holes", transgender ban, Puerto Ricans not being American, Mexicans are rapists/murderers, neo nazis/white supremacists are "very fine people", barely veiled attacks of Jews controlling this or that or smuggling violent immigrants into the country, immigrants being evil and violent unless they're wealthy, white and from Norway, and on and on and on--is what drew his base and you to support him, so I'm not sure what you're whining about--it worked out great for you! But sure, go ahead and repeat yourself again... :roll:

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:05 pm
by AirWorthy99
MaverickM11 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Has anyone figured out his real "concern" yet? I keep on hearing "dangerous," but he seems to associate only "danger" with "being bad for Democrats." I'm not questioning his level of concern or fear . . . I mean, with like 40 posts out of 100, it must be getting to him. For the life of me, I can't figure out why.


I understand you guys like to talk to each other and derail a topic to try and get it removed or locked if you don't like it. Nice try.

You all seem to agree impeaching Trump is necessary because he is a 'danger' to the constitution... and is of huge 'concern' to have him in power. While half of the country disagrees. Whereas on this subject, which you Democrats are feeling the pain (look at the Warren-Sanders war) you see no problem or nothing wrong with playing this game.

Good luck because exactly playing the identity politics like crazy in 2016 was what got Trump elected and might get him elected again if you fail to identify that its a real problem in politics and start really fighting for the issues of all not just for certain groups.

His identity politics--Muslim ban, blacks living in "sh!t holes", transgender ban, Puerto Ricans not being American, Mexicans are rapists/murderers, neo nazis/white supremacists are "very fine people", barely veiled attacks of Jews controlling this or that or smuggling violent immigrants into the country, immigrants being evil and violent unless they're wealthy, white and from Norway, and on and on and on--is what drew his base and you to support him, so I'm not sure what you're whining about--it worked out great for you! But sure, go ahead and repeat yourself again... :roll:


Obviously why debate with someone who doesnt know the definition of whats being debated.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:13 pm
by MaverickM11
AirWorthy99 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I understand you guys like to talk to each other and derail a topic to try and get it removed or locked if you don't like it. Nice try.

You all seem to agree impeaching Trump is necessary because he is a 'danger' to the constitution... and is of huge 'concern' to have him in power. While half of the country disagrees. Whereas on this subject, which you Democrats are feeling the pain (look at the Warren-Sanders war) you see no problem or nothing wrong with playing this game.

Good luck because exactly playing the identity politics like crazy in 2016 was what got Trump elected and might get him elected again if you fail to identify that its a real problem in politics and start really fighting for the issues of all not just for certain groups.

His identity politics--Muslim ban, blacks living in "sh!t holes", transgender ban, Puerto Ricans not being American, Mexicans are rapists/murderers, neo nazis/white supremacists are "very fine people", barely veiled attacks of Jews controlling this or that or smuggling violent immigrants into the country, immigrants being evil and violent unless they're wealthy, white and from Norway, and on and on and on--is what drew his base and you to support him, so I'm not sure what you're whining about--it worked out great for you! But sure, go ahead and repeat yourself again... :roll:


Obviously why debate with someone who doesnt know the definition of whats being debated.

Correct, which is why you are like 40 of the responses here and everyone else is ignoring you.

Meanwhile back on planet reality:


Black Americans are deeply pessimistic about the country under Trump, whom more than 8 in 10 describe as ‘a racist,’ Post-Ipsos poll finds
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

So clearly the GOP aces have this identity politics things figured out. :roll:

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:10 pm
by jetero
AirWorthy99 wrote:
I understand you guys like to talk to each other and derail a topic to try and get it removed or locked if you don't like it. Nice try.


Now, now, I don't see why there's any need to break forum rules and attack other users. This is a discussion forum, and we're only trying to discuss. And what's with the "nice try"? I've noted you've said that several times here. The way I read it, it implies that this is all some sort of game and not a friendly discussion.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
You all seem to agree impeaching Trump is necessary because he is a 'danger' to the constitution... and is of huge 'concern' to have him in power. While half of the country disagrees. Whereas on this subject, which you Democrats are feeling the pain (look at the Warren-Sanders war) you see no problem or nothing wrong with playing this game.


Say wut? What does impeachment have to do with identity politics?

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Good luck because exactly playing the identity politics like crazy in 2016 was what got Trump elected and might get him elected again if you fail to identify that its a real problem in politics and start really fighting for the issues of all not just for certain groups.


So identity politics are "dangerous" because it means the Democratic presidential candidate won't win? I thought that was what you were trying to say, but it was a bit obtuse (for me, at least).

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:19 pm
by jetero
MaverickM11 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
His identity politics--Muslim ban, blacks living in "sh!t holes", transgender ban, Puerto Ricans not being American, Mexicans are rapists/murderers, neo nazis/white supremacists are "very fine people", barely veiled attacks of Jews controlling this or that or smuggling violent immigrants into the country, immigrants being evil and violent unless they're wealthy, white and from Norway, and on and on and on--is what drew his base and you to support him, so I'm not sure what you're whining about--it worked out great for you! But sure, go ahead and repeat yourself again... :roll:


Obviously why debate with someone who doesnt know the definition of whats being debated.

Correct, which is why you are like 40 of the responses here and everyone else is ignoring you.

Meanwhile back on planet reality:


Black Americans are deeply pessimistic about the country under Trump, whom more than 8 in 10 describe as ‘a racist,’ Post-Ipsos poll finds
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

So clearly the GOP aces have this identity politics things figured out. :roll:


You know, I've got an open mind on this topic, especially if it is as Air seems to be saying in that identity politics is "dangerous" because it means a Democratic presidential candidate won't unseat the most corrupt president in history (that does sound very dangerous), but I'll be honest, I've thought this whole time the whole "identity politics" trope functions principally to allow right-wingers to practice soft racism by delegitimizing the basket of very real societal problems resulting from systemic discrimination. "Virtue signaling" is another ridiculous term. I mean in this thread we basically have someone saying the idea that people voting for people who they think represent their interests is a dangerous thing. That just sounds absurd to me.

But, of course, my mind is open . . .

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:25 pm
by AirWorthy99
jetero wrote:
I mean in this thread we basically have someone saying the idea that people voting for people who they think represent their interests is a dangerous thing. That just sounds absurd to me.

But, of course, my mind is open . . .


Wrong, represent interests is not the same as representing a race or gender.. again trying to change the definition of the term for your convenience the same as the other posters.

Representing your interest is absolutely not identity politics.

Either you are ignorant or you are doing it in purpose to try and avoid the real definition. I rather believe you are trying to avoid.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:32 pm
by jetero
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
I mean in this thread we basically have someone saying the idea that people voting for people who they think represent their interests is a dangerous thing. That just sounds absurd to me.

But, of course, my mind is open . . .


Wrong, represent interests is not the same as representing a race or gender.. again trying to change the definition of the term for your convenience the same as the other posters.

Representing your interest is absolutely not identity politics.

Either you are ignorant or you are doing it in purpose to try and avoid the real definition. I rather believe you are trying to avoid.


Whoa boy. You sure are selective in what you respond to, and you honestly seem a bit worked up. That’s perfectly OK, it does seem as if you’re passionate about this topic.

But everything I read kind of sounds like your having a pretty strong opinion on how other people can vote. And, as for me, I trust the voter.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:36 pm
by jetero
Here ... let’s try this. Air, do you think a black voter who feels as if she has experienced discrimination be able to vote for another black woman? I mean everything I’ve read says you think that’s “dangerous.”

Help us all understand!

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:40 pm
by AirWorthy99
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
I mean in this thread we basically have someone saying the idea that people voting for people who they think represent their interests is a dangerous thing. That just sounds absurd to me.

But, of course, my mind is open . . .


Wrong, represent interests is not the same as representing a race or gender.. again trying to change the definition of the term for your convenience the same as the other posters.

Representing your interest is absolutely not identity politics.

Either you are ignorant or you are doing it in purpose to try and avoid the real definition. I rather believe you are trying to avoid.


Whoa boy. You sure are selective in what you respond to, and you honestly seem a bit worked up. That’s perfectly OK, it does seem as if you’re passionate about this topic.

But everything I read kind of sounds like your having a pretty strong opinion on how other people can vote. And, as for me, I trust the voter.


I trust the voter too, and obviously respect their vote. Independently of why they are motivated to vote a certain way.
I just think people should vote on the best candidate that can represent a common interest not a specific one, independently of their race make up or their gender, I tend to see people as people and not members of a specific group. I think that's the best way to see people in reality.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:43 pm
by AirWorthy99
jetero wrote:
Here ... let’s try this. Air, do you think a black voter who feels as if she has experienced discrimination be able to vote for another black woman? I mean everything I’ve read says you think that’s “dangerous.”

Help us all understand!


They should vote for whomever they believe will represent their interest and their community. Be that a black woman or a member of another race or gender.

What is dangerous for politicians to use race/gender as a way to gain power, either on the right or the left, I already said that previously.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:53 am
by Aaron747
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Representing your interest is absolutely not identity politics.

Either you are ignorant or you are doing it in purpose to try and avoid the real definition. I rather believe you are trying to avoid.


Give your interest a name, label, or catchphrase and *BOOM* you have identity politics. See how that works? Narrowing the definition absurdly doesn’t do the argument any favors.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:19 am
by jetero
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Wrong, represent interests is not the same as representing a race or gender.. again trying to change the definition of the term for your convenience the same as the other posters.

Representing your interest is absolutely not identity politics.

Either you are ignorant or you are doing it in purpose to try and avoid the real definition. I rather believe you are trying to avoid.


Whoa boy. You sure are selective in what you respond to, and you honestly seem a bit worked up. That’s perfectly OK, it does seem as if you’re passionate about this topic.

But everything I read kind of sounds like your having a pretty strong opinion on how other people can vote. And, as for me, I trust the voter.


I trust the voter too, and obviously respect their vote. Independently of why they are motivated to vote a certain way.
I just think people should vote on the best candidate that can represent a common interest not a specific one, independently of their race make up or their gender, I tend to see people as people and not members of a specific group. I think that's the best way to see people in reality.


Hmmm, very not Ayn Rand or typical conservative “virtue of selfishness” view.

Oh wait. Define “common interest,” please so I can make sure I understand.

(P.S. Thanks for that clarification, I guess it’s just been so difficult for me to see your point with all the auxiliary impeachment and “This is bad for Democrats” talk.)

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:21 am
by jetero
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Here ... let’s try this. Air, do you think a black voter who feels as if she has experienced discrimination be able to vote for another black woman? I mean everything I’ve read says you think that’s “dangerous.”

Help us all understand!


They should vote for whomever they believe will represent their interest and their community. Be that a black woman or a member of another race or gender.

What is dangerous for politicians to use race/gender as a way to gain power, either on the right or the left, I already said that previously.


Hmmmmm. I’d like to noodle on this one. Please provide a contemporary example that worries you as being particularly “dangerous.” You know, so I can understand, of course.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:37 pm
by AirWorthy99
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Here ... let’s try this. Air, do you think a black voter who feels as if she has experienced discrimination be able to vote for another black woman? I mean everything I’ve read says you think that’s “dangerous.”

Help us all understand!


They should vote for whomever they believe will represent their interest and their community. Be that a black woman or a member of another race or gender.

What is dangerous for politicians to use race/gender as a way to gain power, either on the right or the left, I alreadyi said that previously.


Hmmmmm. I’d like to noodle on this one. Please provide a contemporary example that worries you as being particularly “dangerous.” You know, so I can understand, of course.


Charlottesville comes to mind as an example.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:42 pm
by jetero
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

They should vote for whomever they believe will represent their interest and their community. Be that a black woman or a member of another race or gender.

What is dangerous for politicians to use race/gender as a way to gain power, either on the right or the left, I alreadyi said that previously.


Hmmmmm. I’d like to noodle on this one. Please provide a contemporary example that worries you as being particularly “dangerous.” You know, so I can understand, of course.


Charlottesville comes to mind as an example.


I was under the impression that your thesis was “when a politician gets elected due to identity politics, it’s dangerous.”

So are you talking about Trump?

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:44 pm
by AirWorthy99
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:

Hmmmmm. I’d like to noodle on this one. Please provide a contemporary example that worries you as being particularly “dangerous.” You know, so I can understand, of course.


Charlottesville comes to mind as an example.


I was under the impression that your thesis was “when a politician gets elected due to identity politics, it’s dangerous.”

So are you talking about Trump?


Nope, I said when politicians use race and gender as a way to get into power.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:50 pm
by jetero
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Charlottesville comes to mind as an example.


I was under the impression that your thesis was “when a politician gets elected due to identity politics, it’s dangerous.”

So are you talking about Trump?


Nope, I said when politicians use race and gender as a way to get into power.


Erm, OK ... So I will repeat my question. Are you talking about Trump?

Tell me more about Charlottesville. Let’s talk about specific politicians. For a subject that you obviously are so passionate about, I’m sure you can help me get from A to Z. Heck, even getting to C would be helpful.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:53 pm
by AirWorthy99
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:

I was under the impression that your thesis was “when a politician gets elected due to identity politics, it’s dangerous.”

So are you talking about Trump?


Nope, I said when politicians use race and gender as a way to get into power.


Erm, OK ... So I will repeat my question. Are you talking about Trump?

Tell me more about Charlottesville. Let’s talk about specific politicians. For a subject that you obviously are so passionate about, I’m sure you can help me get from A to Z. Heck, even getting to C would be helpful.


Not passionate about this, you keep asking questions and if I dont answer you come out saying whats the point of the topic. Dont need to keep answering more gotcha questions you seen and read everything I posted. So its up to you to believe anything you wish to believe and make your opinion on what I think.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:54 pm
by jetero
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Nope, I said when politicians use race and gender as a way to get into power.


Erm, OK ... So I will repeat my question. Are you talking about Trump?

Tell me more about Charlottesville. Let’s talk about specific politicians. For a subject that you obviously are so passionate about, I’m sure you can help me get from A to Z. Heck, even getting to C would be helpful.


Not passionate about this, you keep asking questions and if I dont answer you come out saying whats the point of the topic. Dont need to keep answering more gotcha questions you seen and read everything I posted. So its up to you to believe anything you wish to believe and make your opinion on what I think.


Great discussion!

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:19 pm
by SanDiegoLover
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

They should vote for whomever they believe will represent their interest and their community. Be that a black woman or a member of another race or gender.

What is dangerous for politicians to use race/gender as a way to gain power, either on the right or the left, I alreadyi said that previously.


Hmmmmm. I’d like to noodle on this one. Please provide a contemporary example that worries you as being particularly “dangerous.” You know, so I can understand, of course.


Charlottesville comes to mind as an example.


Who got elected from using Charlottesville?

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:36 pm
by AirWorthy99
SanDiegoLover wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:

Hmmmmm. I’d like to noodle on this one. Please provide a contemporary example that worries you as being particularly “dangerous.” You know, so I can understand, of course.


Charlottesville comes to mind as an example.


Who got elected from using Charlottesville?


I havent said that and dont put words on other peoples mouth. They asked me why is Identity politics is dangerous, said why, then an example I mentioned one which is Charlottesville, never said anyone getting elected because of that.

That day someone died because extreme right figures using extreme identity politics.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:47 pm
by jetero
I'm so confused.

Anyone else following the logic?

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:50 pm
by mbmbos
AirWorthy99 wrote:
SanDiegoLover wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Charlottesville comes to mind as an example.


Who got elected from using Charlottesville?


I havent said that and dont put words on other peoples mouth. They asked me why is Identity politics is dangerous, said why, then an example I mentioned one which is Charlottesville, never said anyone getting elected because of that.

That day someone died because extreme right figures using extreme identity politics.



So I take it you believe we should tip-toe around racists instead of calling them out. Otherwise they will kill people.

Sounds like you're advocating caving to terrorism.

Also, let's be very clear (and I asked you about this early on and you refused to respond), "identity politics" is a euphemism for "civil rights." If people advocate for fair treatment for all, you and those who use the term want to taint it as an attempt to be precious, to be anti-white, to be hateful to fellow Americans. You have predicated this entire thread to a difficult-to-define term that is most often used in racial dog whistling.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:00 pm
by jetero
I guess I can agree with the apparent premise, if a politician runs on an "I'm Pro-Charlottesville Unite the Right, Let's Run Over More Democrats" platform, I'd be against that.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:02 pm
by AirWorthy99
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
SanDiegoLover wrote:

Who got elected from using Charlottesville?


I havent said that and dont put words on other peoples mouth. They asked me why is Identity politics is dangerous, said why, then an example I mentioned one which is Charlottesville, never said anyone getting elected because of that.

That day someone died because extreme right figures using extreme identity politics.



So I take it you believe we should tip-toe around racists instead of calling them out. Otherwise they will kill people.

Sounds like you're advocating caving to terrorism.

Also, let's be very clear (and I asked you about this early on and you refused to respond), "identity politics" is a euphemism for "civil rights." If people advocate for fair treatment for all, you and those who use the term want to taint it as an attempt to be precious, to be anti-white, to be hateful to fellow Americans. You have predicated this entire thread to a difficult-to-define term that is most often used in racial dog whistling.


You define the term you wish to define it, if this an euphemism for civil rights according to you then thats your way to see it. Fine

I know this is a very delicate and complex subject, one can easily turn the tables and blame the person who bring this up as racist or whatever. I dont honestly care you all can believe anything you wish to believe.

Disagree that this isnt an issue, ok then.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:13 pm
by jetero
Is anyone else clear on what the issue is? We've kind of been all over the place, from it being bad for Democrats to politicians being elected because of identity politics to the value of voting in the common interest (although that hasn't been defined) to Charlottesville. Whew! What a wild ride!

If we were clear on the topic, I think we could have a productive discussion, which is definitely important if the issue is so dangerous.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:40 pm
by mbmbos
AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I havent said that and dont put words on other peoples mouth. They asked me why is Identity politics is dangerous, said why, then an example I mentioned one which is Charlottesville, never said anyone getting elected because of that.

That day someone died because extreme right figures using extreme identity politics.



So I take it you believe we should tip-toe around racists instead of calling them out. Otherwise they will kill people.

Sounds like you're advocating caving to terrorism.

Also, let's be very clear (and I asked you about this early on and you refused to respond), "identity politics" is a euphemism for "civil rights." If people advocate for fair treatment for all, you and those who use the term want to taint it as an attempt to be precious, to be anti-white, to be hateful to fellow Americans. You have predicated this entire thread to a difficult-to-define term that is most often used in racial dog whistling.







You define the term you wish to define it, if this an euphemism for civil rights according to you then thats your way to see it. Fine

I know this is a very delicate and complex subject, one can easily turn the tables and blame the person who bring this up as racist or whatever. I dont honestly care you all can believe anything you wish to believe.

Disagree that this isnt an issue, ok then.


...which is why you refuse to define the term. It's all on you and this rancid threat you started.

Re: Identity Politics in America

Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:49 pm
by AirWorthy99
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:


So I take it you believe we should tip-toe around racists instead of calling them out. Otherwise they will kill people.

Sounds like you're advocating caving to terrorism.

Also, let's be very clear (and I asked you about this early on and you refused to respond), "identity politics" is a euphemism for "civil rights." If people advocate for fair treatment for all, you and those who use the term want to taint it as an attempt to be precious, to be anti-white, to be hateful to fellow Americans. You have predicated this entire thread to a difficult-to-define term that is most often used in racial dog whistling.







You define the term you wish to define it, if this an euphemism for civil rights according to you then thats your way to see it. Fine

I know this is a very delicate and complex subject, one can easily turn the tables and blame the person who bring this up as racist or whatever. I dont honestly care you all can believe anything you wish to believe.

Disagree that this isnt an issue, ok then.


...which is why you refuse to define the term. It's all on you and this rancid threat you started.


I defined it like 5 times already, dont care if none of you believe thats the definition or believe is another one. Most of you defined it your own way, therefore it was a debate nonetheless.