User avatar
mbmbos
Posts: 2890
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:02 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:






You define the term you wish to define it, if this an euphemism for civil rights according to you then thats your way to see it. Fine

I know this is a very delicate and complex subject, one can easily turn the tables and blame the person who bring this up as racist or whatever. I dont honestly care you all can believe anything you wish to believe.

Disagree that this isnt an issue, ok then.


...which is why you refuse to define the term. It's all on you and this rancid threat you started.


I defined it like 5 times already, dont care if none of you believe thats the definition or believe is another one. Most of you defined it your own way, therefore it was a debate nonetheless.


"That's not identity politics.
Identity politics is to say vote for me because I represent your gender/race etc.... or vote for me because I will be better for your race/gender etc...

Right wing who use identity politics are bad too. But Democrats have been proud in using it more forcefully over the years. Remember "I am with her" slogan?"

So this is your definition? Who says "vote for me because I represent your gender?" People celebrate female candidates. People encourage candidates of color. But you don't interpret it that way. You immediately pivot to some mindless narrative they are pandering to their gender or color. That says a whole lot more about you than it does for those who are running for office or encouraging said people to run for office.

And you use "I'm with her" as an example? Wow, that's weak. When only one woman in the race, "I'm with her" makes a lot of sense. But you see it as an appeal to voting specifically for a woman, and that twists your shorts into a bunch.

Very telling. This entire thread - your responses - are a Rorschach test of who you really are.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:15 pm

You see, that was what was confusing me. Somehow a woman voting for a woman because she thinks that candidate better represents her interests as a woman somehow caused Charlottesville. It was a little bit mind-boggling, but I'm open to hearing more, because of the danger and all.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 21454
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:51 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Wrong, represent interests is not the same as representing a race or gender.. again trying to change the definition of the term for your convenience the same as the other posters.

Representing your interest is absolutely not identity politics.

Either you are ignorant or you are doing it in purpose to try and avoid the real definition. I rather believe you are trying to avoid.


Whoa boy. You sure are selective in what you respond to, and you honestly seem a bit worked up. That’s perfectly OK, it does seem as if you’re passionate about this topic.

But everything I read kind of sounds like your having a pretty strong opinion on how other people can vote. And, as for me, I trust the voter.


I trust the voter too, and obviously respect their vote. Independently of why they are motivated to vote a certain way.
I just think people should vote on the best candidate that can represent a common interest not a specific one, independently of their race make up or their gender, I tend to see people as people and not members of a specific group. I think that's the best way to see people in reality.


So, explain how voting for Sanders is identity politics? Sanders holds many of the same common interests of minorities and women and such. How is it "dangerous" and "identity politics" if an older white heterosexual man has the same opinions as Blacks or LGBTQ or women?

EDIT:

I named Sanders specifically because this thread seems to have devolved into race, gender, and sexual orientation and Sanders checks all three.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:15 am

mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:

...which is why you refuse to define the term. It's all on you and this rancid threat you started.


I defined it like 5 times already, dont care if none of you believe thats the definition or believe is another one. Most of you defined it your own way, therefore it was a debate nonetheless.


"That's not identity politics.
Identity politics is to say vote for me because I represent your gender/race etc.... or vote for me because I will be better for your race/gender etc...

Right wing who use identity politics are bad too. But Democrats have been proud in using it more forcefully over the years. Remember "I am with her" slogan?"

So this is your definition? Who says "vote for me because I represent your gender?" People celebrate female candidates. People encourage candidates of color. But you don't interpret it that way. You immediately pivot to some mindless narrative they are pandering to their gender or color. That says a whole lot more about you than it does for those who are running for office or encouraging said people to run for office.

And you use "I'm with her" as an example? Wow, that's weak. When only one woman in the race, "I'm with her" makes a lot of sense. But you see it as an appeal to voting specifically for a woman, and that twists your shorts into a bunch.

Very telling. This entire thread - your responses - are a Rorschach test of who you really are.


I have seen a lot of 'virtue signaling' but this certainly takes the cake.

I am not that well 'twitter-versed' to know what Rorschach is, so my apologies for not searching and googling and finding out what exactly is it you mean, but I tend to believe is not good. In any case I don't typically get offended by nothing people say to me, nor by trying to make me feel intellectually inferior by throwing out fancy names or what ever. I don't care.

Anyways, I am not against 'encouraging' minority candidates, in fact because I am Hispanic and not white I tend to encourage other fellow Latinos I know to be active politically, but I truly don't expect them to be 'celebrated' just for being Latinos, I believe they should be 'celebrated' for their ideas, plans and leadership. Which is what people should look at others instead of the color of the skin. There was a time that judging people or treating differently others based on the color of the skin was racism, I personally prefer not to get any advantages or celebrations when I am advancing myself on the world, and I prefer to be treated like everyone else, as a white, Asian, black or any other.

Its funny how we are allowing such a person who treated her fellow women with sexism https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics ... index.html
So it is clear that Hillary Clinton reacted in what could be seen as negative ways. According to some accounts, she at the very least went along with the hiring of a private investigator to look into the background of Gennifer Flowers. Some see her reaction as especially problematic coming from a person who promotes herself as a champion of women
and therefore defend her use of the gender card with such a slogan as "I'm with her" come in and say that she should be treated differently just because she is a woman and she is allowed to use such tactics. That's fine, I understand politicians need to use a lot of tools in order to win.

You seem to be an advocate for identity politics only when is used by the left, that's ok, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to try and pin me as 'this is what you truly are' is not going to shut me out or silence me. Thanks
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:16 am

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:

Whoa boy. You sure are selective in what you respond to, and you honestly seem a bit worked up. That’s perfectly OK, it does seem as if you’re passionate about this topic.

But everything I read kind of sounds like your having a pretty strong opinion on how other people can vote. And, as for me, I trust the voter.


I trust the voter too, and obviously respect their vote. Independently of why they are motivated to vote a certain way.
I just think people should vote on the best candidate that can represent a common interest not a specific one, independently of their race make up or their gender, I tend to see people as people and not members of a specific group. I think that's the best way to see people in reality.


So, explain how voting for Sanders is identity politics? Sanders holds many of the same common interests of minorities and women and such. How is it "dangerous" and "identity politics" if an older white heterosexual man has the same opinions as Blacks or LGBTQ or women?

EDIT:

I named Sanders specifically because this thread seems to have devolved into race, gender, and sexual orientation and Sanders checks all three.....


Well actually I must say, don't like Sanders, I think he is a huge threat to this country, but he is one of the few politicians that don't use Identity politics. Which to me he gets a lot of respect. Whereas some of the others do.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:36 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I trust the voter too, and obviously respect their vote. Independently of why they are motivated to vote a certain way.
I just think people should vote on the best candidate that can represent a common interest not a specific one, independently of their race make up or their gender, I tend to see people as people and not members of a specific group. I think that's the best way to see people in reality.


So, explain how voting for Sanders is identity politics? Sanders holds many of the same common interests of minorities and women and such. How is it "dangerous" and "identity politics" if an older white heterosexual man has the same opinions as Blacks or LGBTQ or women?

EDIT:

I named Sanders specifically because this thread seems to have devolved into race, gender, and sexual orientation and Sanders checks all three.....


Well actually I must say, don't like Sanders, I think he is a huge threat to this country, but he is one of the few politicians that don't use Identity politics. Which to me he gets a lot of respect. Whereas some of the others do.


Aha, if you view him as a threat, that must mean you’re either in: healthcare, real estate, financial services, or fossil fuel industries. Oh look! Identity politics.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:43 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So, explain how voting for Sanders is identity politics? Sanders holds many of the same common interests of minorities and women and such. How is it "dangerous" and "identity politics" if an older white heterosexual man has the same opinions as Blacks or LGBTQ or women?

EDIT:

I named Sanders specifically because this thread seems to have devolved into race, gender, and sexual orientation and Sanders checks all three.....


Well actually I must say, don't like Sanders, I think he is a huge threat to this country, but he is one of the few politicians that don't use Identity politics. Which to me he gets a lot of respect. Whereas some of the others do.


Aha, if you view him as a threat, that must mean you’re either in: healthcare, real estate, financial services, or fossil fuel industries. Oh look! Identity politics.


How about a threat to capitalism? If you work in the private sector I should be worried. I have seen Sanders in other countries, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc. come to mind
Last edited by AirWorthy99 on Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:43 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I have seen a lot of 'virtue signaling' but this certainly takes the cake.


Having a different opinion="virtue signaling"? What exactly does "virtue signaling" mean to you?

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I am not that well 'twitter-versed' to know what Rorschach is, so my apologies for not searching and googling and finding out what exactly is it you mean, but I tend to believe is not good.


Whoa boy, I would have had you down for being intellectually curious, what with all this obviously genuine concern about identity politics. Rorschach was a dude, died long before Twitter. I suppose people can be "good" and "bad," but I don't think in the sense that you were thinking.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Anyways, I am not against 'encouraging' minority candidates, in fact because I am Hispanic and not white I tend to encourage other fellow Latinos I know to be active politically, but I truly don't expect them to be 'celebrated' just for being Latinos, I believe they should be 'celebrated' for their ideas, plans and leadership. Which is what people should look at others instead of the color of the skin. There was a time that judging people or treating differently others based on the color of the skin was racism, I personally prefer not to get any advantages or celebrations when I am advancing myself on the world, and I prefer to be treated like everyone else, as a white, Asian, black or any other.


I think what I find most troubling in your "identity politics-signaling" (new term!) is that the strength of your opinion (virtue signaling?) seems to flirt with the extreme of imposing it on others. As in another thread, "The economy is good so shut up, smile, and vote Trump." (A Schifty paraphrase, I will admit, but that's how I read it.)

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Its funny how we are allowing such a person who treated her fellow women with sexism https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics ... index.html
So it is clear that Hillary Clinton reacted in what could be seen as negative ways. According to some accounts, she at the very least went along with the hiring of a private investigator to look into the background of Gennifer Flowers. Some see her reaction as especially problematic coming from a person who promotes herself as a champion of women
and therefore defend her use of the gender card with such a slogan as "I'm with her" come in and say that she should be treated differently just because she is a woman and she is allowed to use such tactics. That's fine, I understand politicians need to use a lot of tools in order to win.


OK so now Hillary Clinton has entered the fray. Is it OK if I describe such tactics as "grievance politics"? Or would that comprise "virtue signaling"?

AirWorthy99 wrote:
You seem to be an advocate for identity politics only when is used by the left, that's ok, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to try and pin me as 'this is what you truly are' is not going to shut me out or silence me. Thanks


No one wants to silence you! Quite the contrary . . . give us more, please! I think we're all trying to encourage discussion by having a better understanding of what you're talking about. Where is the danger? Where are the politicians who got elected for Charlottesville? How does impeachment fit into this? Help us understand!
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:50 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Well actually I must say, don't like Sanders, I think he is a huge threat to this country, but he is one of the few politicians that don't use Identity politics. Which to me he gets a lot of respect. Whereas some of the others do.


Aha, if you view him as a threat, that must mean you’re either in: healthcare, real estate, financial services, or fossil fuel industries. Oh look! Identity politics.


How about a threat to capitalism? If you work in the private sector I should be worried. I have seen Sanders in other countries, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc. come to mind


No US politician is a wholesale threat to capitalism. Sanders doesn’t represent anything anywhere near Ortega or Chavez. You are just spouting talking point nonsense. Try again.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:51 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I trust the voter too, and obviously respect their vote. Independently of why they are motivated to vote a certain way.
I just think people should vote on the best candidate that can represent a common interest not a specific one, independently of their race make up or their gender, I tend to see people as people and not members of a specific group. I think that's the best way to see people in reality.


So, explain how voting for Sanders is identity politics? Sanders holds many of the same common interests of minorities and women and such. How is it "dangerous" and "identity politics" if an older white heterosexual man has the same opinions as Blacks or LGBTQ or women?

EDIT:

I named Sanders specifically because this thread seems to have devolved into race, gender, and sexual orientation and Sanders checks all three.....


Well actually I must say, don't like Sanders, I think he is a huge threat to this country, but he is one of the few politicians that don't use Identity politics. Which to me he gets a lot of respect. Whereas some of the others do.


He mentioned Charlottesville, though, which I thought was identity politics.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom ... onstration
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:56 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Aha, if you view him as a threat, that must mean you’re either in: healthcare, real estate, financial services, or fossil fuel industries. Oh look! Identity politics.


How about a threat to capitalism? If you work in the private sector I should be worried. I have seen Sanders in other countries, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc. come to mind


No US politician is a wholesale threat to capitalism. Sanders doesn’t represent anything anywhere near Ortega or Chavez. You are just spouting talking point nonsense. Try again.


evidence: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie- ... d=66217140

"There are differences between Elizabeth and myself," Sanders, I-Vt., said in an interview with ABC News Chief White House Correspondent Jonathan Karl. "Elizabeth, I think, as you know, has said that she is a capitalist through her bones. I'm not."


Nope, he calls himself a socialist, with pride, he says himself he wants to create a 'revolution' perhaps not what those countries want but the green new deal which they admit is intended to change the economy entirely: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... he-climate
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:57 am

jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So, explain how voting for Sanders is identity politics? Sanders holds many of the same common interests of minorities and women and such. How is it "dangerous" and "identity politics" if an older white heterosexual man has the same opinions as Blacks or LGBTQ or women?

EDIT:

I named Sanders specifically because this thread seems to have devolved into race, gender, and sexual orientation and Sanders checks all three.....


Well actually I must say, don't like Sanders, I think he is a huge threat to this country, but he is one of the few politicians that don't use Identity politics. Which to me he gets a lot of respect. Whereas some of the others do.


He mentioned Charlottesville, though, which I thought was identity politics.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom ... onstration


I already said, Bernie is one of the few who don't use identity politics.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:00 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Well actually I must say, don't like Sanders, I think he is a huge threat to this country, but he is one of the few politicians that don't use Identity politics. Which to me he gets a lot of respect. Whereas some of the others do.


He mentioned Charlottesville, though, which I thought was identity politics.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom ... onstration


I already said, Bernie is one of the few who don't use identity politics.


So . . . QED? "I said so, so it must be true?"
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:12 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

How about a threat to capitalism? If you work in the private sector I should be worried. I have seen Sanders in other countries, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, etc. come to mind


No US politician is a wholesale threat to capitalism. Sanders doesn’t represent anything anywhere near Ortega or Chavez. You are just spouting talking point nonsense. Try again.


evidence: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie- ... d=66217140

"There are differences between Elizabeth and myself," Sanders, I-Vt., said in an interview with ABC News Chief White House Correspondent Jonathan Karl. "Elizabeth, I think, as you know, has said that she is a capitalist through her bones. I'm not."


Nope, he calls himself a socialist, with pride, he says himself he wants to create a 'revolution' perhaps not what those countries want but the green new deal which they admit is intended to change the economy entirely: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... he-climate


He aligns his policies with those of Democratic socialists - the systems in Scandinavia, Japan, Germany etc. Capitalism has not died in any of those places. He is also a longtime member of Congress and knows NOTHING on his agenda would be enacted as stated - through compromise they would be pared down to bare essentials to get anything passed. He uses them as a pressure point for needed discussion and debate to be had.

I fail to see anywhere you have shown he is another Chavez or Ortega, calling for state and military seizure of all industry.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:20 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

No US politician is a wholesale threat to capitalism. Sanders doesn’t represent anything anywhere near Ortega or Chavez. You are just spouting talking point nonsense. Try again.


evidence: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie- ... d=66217140

"There are differences between Elizabeth and myself," Sanders, I-Vt., said in an interview with ABC News Chief White House Correspondent Jonathan Karl. "Elizabeth, I think, as you know, has said that she is a capitalist through her bones. I'm not."


Nope, he calls himself a socialist, with pride, he says himself he wants to create a 'revolution' perhaps not what those countries want but the green new deal which they admit is intended to change the economy entirely: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... he-climate


He aligns his policies with those of Democratic socialists - the systems in Scandinavia, Japan, Germany etc. Capitalism has not died in any of those places. He is also a longtime member of Congress and knows NOTHING on his agenda would be enacted as stated - through compromise they would be pared down to bare essentials to get anything passed. He uses them as a pressure point for needed discussion and debate to be had.

I fail to see anywhere you have shown he is another Chavez or Ortega, calling for state and military seizure of all industry.



During an appearance on MSNBC Thursday night, Sanders told host Chris Hayes that the U.S. needed an "aggressive" federal approach to producing electricity and nodded after Hayes claimed he proposed a "federal takeover of the whole thing."


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sander ... ver-energy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DGsFOwXt2Q
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:34 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

evidence: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie- ... d=66217140



Nope, he calls himself a socialist, with pride, he says himself he wants to create a 'revolution' perhaps not what those countries want but the green new deal which they admit is intended to change the economy entirely: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... he-climate


He aligns his policies with those of Democratic socialists - the systems in Scandinavia, Japan, Germany etc. Capitalism has not died in any of those places. He is also a longtime member of Congress and knows NOTHING on his agenda would be enacted as stated - through compromise they would be pared down to bare essentials to get anything passed. He uses them as a pressure point for needed discussion and debate to be had.

I fail to see anywhere you have shown he is another Chavez or Ortega, calling for state and military seizure of all industry.



During an appearance on MSNBC Thursday night, Sanders told host Chris Hayes that the U.S. needed an "aggressive" federal approach to producing electricity and nodded after Hayes claimed he proposed a "federal takeover of the whole thing."


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sander ... ver-energy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DGsFOwXt2Q


Again, he uses that as a pressure point for discussion on a particularly screwed up industry. Nothing different than what happened in the early 1980s with Bell, or discussions after Enron’s collapse.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 21454
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:37 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Nope, he calls himself a socialist, with pride, he says himself he wants to create a 'revolution' perhaps not what those countries want but the green new deal which they admit is intended to change the economy entirely: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... he-climate


Which means people who work get things like affordable health care LIKE THE RICH HAVE and affordable education LIKE THE RICH HAVE and affordable housing LIKE THE RICH HAVE and food LIKE THE RICH HAVE

Some parts of socialism are not that bad. Profit sharing, for example, for the people who actually work.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 9695
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:49 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Well actually I must say, don't like Sanders, I think he is a huge threat to this country, but he is one of the few politicians that don't use Identity politics. Which to me he gets a lot of respect. Whereas some of the others do.


He mentioned Charlottesville, though, which I thought was identity politics.

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom ... onstration


I already said, Bernie is one of the few who don't use identity politics.

You persist in misusing and apparently misunderstanding "identity politics". Trump uses identity politics, Bernie uses identity politics, you seem to want to impose a non-reality that identity politics is only about race or gender or some physical attribute (as far as I can discern) but it is not.

Here is a few simple ones, just a quick google search away:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9x6Qx_zYmk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl-27JjJk-I

As I noted earlier, identity is an internal thing, who we see ourselves as being, belonging to and nowadays equally important, what groups and viewpoints wee DON'T belong to/agree with. Identity is not small or as simplistic as you are making identity politics, it encompasses ideas, people, attributes, everything that the politicians are pushing. For Bernie, one identity is college students (and ex) with debt, its poorer people who want more services without contributing more themselves, it people who want and need more access to medical benefits. Trump and Warren and all politicians each have their own groups that identify with them both for what they support/are seen as as well as for what they don't support or are seen as not being.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:23 pm

I took the opportunity to go back to the OP and I see the post was actually originally about Cory Booker withdrawing and, because of that, the Democratic Party "maybe wasn't racist." (I guess by extension that means maybe it is?)

Man! It's like a ping pong ball, first Cory, then Charlottesville, then Hillary, now Bernie, with a lot of other stuff in between. No wonder it's been so difficult for me to parse any logic.

Anyway, we were making progress with the "people should vote in the common interest" statement. Can we get a definition of "common interest"? From another thread I think it means that minorities should not vote Democrat. But I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:34 pm

jetero wrote:
I took the opportunity to go back to the OP and I see the post was actually originally about Cory Booker withdrawing and, because of that, the Democratic Party "maybe wasn't racist." (I guess by extension that means maybe it is?)

Man! It's like a ping pong ball, first Cory, then Charlottesville, then Hillary, now Bernie, with a lot of other stuff in between. No wonder it's been so difficult for me to parse any logic.

Anyway, we were making progress with the "people should vote in the common interest" statement. Can we get a definition of "common interest"? From another thread I think it means that minorities should not vote Democrat. But I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth.


And the other part was 'Bernie's going to take all private business away and make us like Venezuela, because I'm Cuban'...or something.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:37 pm

jetero wrote:
I took the opportunity to go back to the OP and I see the post was actually originally about Cory Booker withdrawing and, because of that, the Democratic Party "maybe wasn't racist." (I guess by extension that means maybe it is?)

Man! It's like a ping pong ball, first Cory, then Charlottesville, then Hillary, now Bernie, with a lot of other stuff in between. No wonder it's been so difficult for me to parse any logic.

Anyway, we were making progress with the "people should vote in the common interest" statement. Can we get a definition of "common interest"? From another thread I think it means that minorities should not vote Democrat. But I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth.


Common interest for example is more or less what Candidate Obama ran in 2008, like 'improving the lives of all Americans' and bringing hope, etc. That's a common interest. Well don't know if you think there is another definition to that.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:42 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
I took the opportunity to go back to the OP and I see the post was actually originally about Cory Booker withdrawing and, because of that, the Democratic Party "maybe wasn't racist." (I guess by extension that means maybe it is?)

Man! It's like a ping pong ball, first Cory, then Charlottesville, then Hillary, now Bernie, with a lot of other stuff in between. No wonder it's been so difficult for me to parse any logic.

Anyway, we were making progress with the "people should vote in the common interest" statement. Can we get a definition of "common interest"? From another thread I think it means that minorities should not vote Democrat. But I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth.


Common interest for example is more or less what Candidate Obama ran in 2008, like 'improving the lives of all Americans' and bringing hope, etc. That's a common interest. Well don't know if you think there is another definition to that.


I have heard you denigrate Obama's presidency in other posts, so I don't think you're arguing that everyone should have voted for him, nor do I think you're arguing that people should vote for people based on campaign slogans. And I'm sure you would agree that Trump did not run on such a unifying platform, therefore he was not promoting a "common interest," therefore one should not vote for him.
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:46 pm

jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
I took the opportunity to go back to the OP and I see the post was actually originally about Cory Booker withdrawing and, because of that, the Democratic Party "maybe wasn't racist." (I guess by extension that means maybe it is?)

Man! It's like a ping pong ball, first Cory, then Charlottesville, then Hillary, now Bernie, with a lot of other stuff in between. No wonder it's been so difficult for me to parse any logic.

Anyway, we were making progress with the "people should vote in the common interest" statement. Can we get a definition of "common interest"? From another thread I think it means that minorities should not vote Democrat. But I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth.


Common interest for example is more or less what Candidate Obama ran in 2008, like 'improving the lives of all Americans' and bringing hope, etc. That's a common interest. Well don't know if you think there is another definition to that.


I have heard you denigrate Obama's presidency in other posts, so I don't think you're arguing that everyone should have voted for him, nor do I think you're arguing that people should vote for people based on campaign slogans. And I'm sure you would agree that Trump did not run on such a unifying platform, therefore he was not promoting a "common interest," therefore one should not vote for him.


Nope, I am simply referencing a campaign that used a different and more 'unifying' theme, and I did not buy into the Obama campaign, never believe any leftist politician in my life, thankfully.
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
jetero wrote:
I took the opportunity to go back to the OP and I see the post was actually originally about Cory Booker withdrawing and, because of that, the Democratic Party "maybe wasn't racist." (I guess by extension that means maybe it is?)

Man! It's like a ping pong ball, first Cory, then Charlottesville, then Hillary, now Bernie, with a lot of other stuff in between. No wonder it's been so difficult for me to parse any logic.

Anyway, we were making progress with the "people should vote in the common interest" statement. Can we get a definition of "common interest"? From another thread I think it means that minorities should not vote Democrat. But I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth.


And the other part was 'Bernie's going to take all private business away and make us like Venezuela, because I'm Cuban'...or something.


I suspect there's a lot of "there there." Very long tails on that whole episode, if you've grown up with family members talking about their property being expropriated. But that has not been the experience of most Americans, so surely one who experienced such things (well, maybe didn't really experience it . . . just heard about it) can understand if most of us don't think such knee-jerk reactions should have outsize influence on our political system. I think most of us agree, let's keep American politics American.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:50 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Common interest for example is more or less what Candidate Obama ran in 2008, like 'improving the lives of all Americans' and bringing hope, etc. That's a common interest. Well don't know if you think there is another definition to that.


I have heard you denigrate Obama's presidency in other posts, so I don't think you're arguing that everyone should have voted for him, nor do I think you're arguing that people should vote for people based on campaign slogans. And I'm sure you would agree that Trump did not run on such a unifying platform, therefore he was not promoting a "common interest," therefore one should not vote for him.


Nope, I am simply referencing a campaign that used a different and more 'unifying' theme, and I did not buy into the Obama campaign, never believe any leftist politician in my life, thankfully.
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.


Virtually everyone in this thread has told you identity politics is not limited to gender or race, yet you continue to prattle on with your own definition. Can you provide proof that your definition is the one everyone should use?

Similar to what Tugger outlined, the actual definition certainly includes Trump's campaign methods and Steve Bannon's strategy to capture the 'forgotten' White American experience - he even admits so in the Frontline interviews that are now talked about fervently on Twitter.

The laden phrase “identity politics” has come to signify a wide range of political activity and theorizing founded in the shared experiences of injustice of members of certain social groups. Rather than organizing solely around belief systems, programmatic manifestos, or party affiliation, identity political formations typically aim to secure the political freedom of a specific constituency marginalized within its larger context.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-politics/
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:50 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Common interest for example is more or less what Candidate Obama ran in 2008, like 'improving the lives of all Americans' and bringing hope, etc. That's a common interest. Well don't know if you think there is another definition to that.


I have heard you denigrate Obama's presidency in other posts, so I don't think you're arguing that everyone should have voted for him, nor do I think you're arguing that people should vote for people based on campaign slogans. And I'm sure you would agree that Trump did not run on such a unifying platform, therefore he was not promoting a "common interest," therefore one should not vote for him.


Nope, I am simply referencing a campaign that used a different and more 'unifying' theme, and I did not buy into the Obama campaign, never believe any leftist politician in my life, thankfully.
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.


So one should vote on "common interest," the only example you provide of such "common interest" is Obama, yet you didn't believe it.

And the standard reverts to something like "vote for the person who doesn't remind people of their gender or race." OK . . . weird standard if you ask me . . . but to each their own.
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:51 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:

I have heard you denigrate Obama's presidency in other posts, so I don't think you're arguing that everyone should have voted for him, nor do I think you're arguing that people should vote for people based on campaign slogans. And I'm sure you would agree that Trump did not run on such a unifying platform, therefore he was not promoting a "common interest," therefore one should not vote for him.


Nope, I am simply referencing a campaign that used a different and more 'unifying' theme, and I did not buy into the Obama campaign, never believe any leftist politician in my life, thankfully.
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.


Virtually everyone in this thread has told you identity politics is not limited to gender or race, yet you continue to prattle on with your own definition. Can you provide proof that your definition is the one everyone should use?

Similar to what Tugger outlined, the actual definition certainly includes Trump's campaign methods and Steve Bannon's strategy to capture the 'forgotten' White American experience - he even admits so in the Frontline interviews that are now talked about fervently on Twitter.

The laden phrase “identity politics” has come to signify a wide range of political activity and theorizing founded in the shared experiences of injustice of members of certain social groups. Rather than organizing solely around belief systems, programmatic manifestos, or party affiliation, identity political formations typically aim to secure the political freedom of a specific constituency marginalized within its larger context.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-politics/


I think it means someone who doesn't say "I am male" and "I am white." I guess you can hint at it, you just can't use campaign slogans like "I'm with him."
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:53 pm

jetero wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
jetero wrote:
I took the opportunity to go back to the OP and I see the post was actually originally about Cory Booker withdrawing and, because of that, the Democratic Party "maybe wasn't racist." (I guess by extension that means maybe it is?)

Man! It's like a ping pong ball, first Cory, then Charlottesville, then Hillary, now Bernie, with a lot of other stuff in between. No wonder it's been so difficult for me to parse any logic.

Anyway, we were making progress with the "people should vote in the common interest" statement. Can we get a definition of "common interest"? From another thread I think it means that minorities should not vote Democrat. But I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth.


And the other part was 'Bernie's going to take all private business away and make us like Venezuela, because I'm Cuban'...or something.


I suspect there's a lot of "there there." Very long tails on that whole episode, if you've grown up with family members talking about their property being expropriated. But that has not been the experience of most Americans, so surely one who experienced such things (well, maybe didn't really experience it . . . just heard about it) can understand if most of us don't think such knee-jerk reactions should have outsize influence on our political system. I think most of us agree, let's keep American politics American.


Not only me, millions of immigrants from Eastern Europe migrated to the US because of the Soviet Union. Many many people from many countries migrated to this country running away from the scourge of socialism and communism. I admit nowadays some Cuban-Americans are becoming more liberals and open to 'socialism' since most of their upbringing has been here in the states where they haven't lived any of that.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:53 pm

jetero wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Nope, I am simply referencing a campaign that used a different and more 'unifying' theme, and I did not buy into the Obama campaign, never believe any leftist politician in my life, thankfully.
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.


Virtually everyone in this thread has told you identity politics is not limited to gender or race, yet you continue to prattle on with your own definition. Can you provide proof that your definition is the one everyone should use?

Similar to what Tugger outlined, the actual definition certainly includes Trump's campaign methods and Steve Bannon's strategy to capture the 'forgotten' White American experience - he even admits so in the Frontline interviews that are now talked about fervently on Twitter.

The laden phrase “identity politics” has come to signify a wide range of political activity and theorizing founded in the shared experiences of injustice of members of certain social groups. Rather than organizing solely around belief systems, programmatic manifestos, or party affiliation, identity political formations typically aim to secure the political freedom of a specific constituency marginalized within its larger context.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-politics/


I think it means someone who doesn't say "I am male" and "I am white." I guess you can hint at it, you just can't use campaign slogans like "I'm with him."


I guess he never saw this: "I AM YOUR VOICE"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7gI1oc2eyI
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:56 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

And the other part was 'Bernie's going to take all private business away and make us like Venezuela, because I'm Cuban'...or something.


I suspect there's a lot of "there there." Very long tails on that whole episode, if you've grown up with family members talking about their property being expropriated. But that has not been the experience of most Americans, so surely one who experienced such things (well, maybe didn't really experience it . . . just heard about it) can understand if most of us don't think such knee-jerk reactions should have outsize influence on our political system. I think most of us agree, let's keep American politics American.


Not only me, millions of immigrants from Eastern Europe migrated to the US because of the Soviet Union. Many many people from many countries migrated to this country running away from the scourge of socialism and communism. I admit nowadays some Cuban-Americans are becoming more liberals and open to 'socialism' since most of their upbringing has been here in the states where they haven't lived any of that.


That's nice - those things are completely irrelevant to American politics and life. None of those scourges are happening here, in any form. We have a lot of rubber-stamped corruption, criminal justice failures that don't live up to the Constitution and the like, but nothing even close to the government/military/a single leader destroying entire swaths of industry, resources and daily life.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 9695
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:04 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.

Trump ran using identity politics extensively. Again identity politics are not just sex and race of the person running.
Trump highlighted and attacked foreigners and that the USA was being overrun. And specifically he focused on Mexican's and labeled them as criminals and killers and rapists secreting themselves within the USA.
Another is jobs, "your jobs are being stolen", "I will save your jobs and if you vote the other party you will lose your jobs". Another? "I am rich and successful businessman, the others are government stooges" etc. etc. These are all "identities" that politicians work to create so people feel part of this or that group or, again importantly, very much do not want to be part of "THAT" group etc. and therefore vote against that group. What do you think Trump's name calling was? What is "small hands" referring to? What is "Pocahontas" for? Why "lyin' Ted"? This is all to label and "identify" the opposition, which is very much part of identity politics. You are not just seeing a person and their ideas, you are seeing labels and identities you associate with those labels.

Trump, like you, and most others in politics, dump opponents into stupid simplistic and impossible categories. "The left", "the right", "LGBT", "White supremacist". Everyone is a group and not an individual to those that practice identity politics, and Trump did that as extensively as anyone. And you definitely hold it dear as well (never following any "left politician"? That right there is identity politics. If you vote against "the left" you fall into the trap of identity politics. Even if you don't or can't understand that.)

Identity politics are heavily practiced by all parties. Identity is not just race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Tugg
Last edited by Tugger on Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:08 pm

Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.

Trump ran using identity politics extensively. Again identity politics are not just sex and race of the person running.
Trump highlighted and attacked foreigners and that the USA was being overrun. And specifically he focused on Mexican's and labeled them as criminals and killers and rapists secreting themselves within the USA.
Another is jobs, "your jobs are being stolen", "I will save your jobs and if you vote the other party you will lose your jobs". Another? "I am rich and successful businessman, the others are government stooges" etc. etc. These are all "identities" that politicians work to create so people feel part of this or that group or, again importantly, very much do not want to be part of "THAT" group etc. and therefore vote against that group.

Trump, like you, and most others in politics, dump opponents into stupid simplistic and impossible categories. "The left", "the right", "LGBT", "White supremacist". Everyone is a group and not an individual to those that practice identity politics, and Trump did that as extensively as anyone. And you definitely hold it dear as well (never following any "left politician"? That right there is identity politics. If you vote against "the left" you fall into the trap of identity politics. Even if you don't or can't understand that.)

Identity politics are heavily practiced by all parties. Identity is not just race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Tugg



Ok, I admit this debate will not go anywhere if we don't agree on an 'official' definition of this term. If you guys want me to wave the white flag as surrender, then you have it. I can't keep up with all of you not agreeing with me on at least the definition of the term. So we can't even debate or argue for our points if we each have a different opinion on the definition of this. It is not worth it having a conversation on something when one can not even agree on the simple terms of what we are debating.

Perhaps this is a subject that its too complex to argue here, so if you guys want to get a win on this, good for you and congratulations.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 9695
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:21 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Ok, I admit this debate will not go anywhere if we don't agree on an 'official' definition of this term. If you guys want me to wave the white flag as surrender, then you have it. I can't keep up with all of you not agreeing with me on at least the definition of the term. So we can't even debate or argue for our points if we each have a different opinion on the definition of this. It is not worth it having a conversation on something when one can not even agree on the simple terms of what we are debating.

Perhaps this is a subject that its too complex to argue here, so if you guys want to get a win on this, good for you and congratulations.

Basically it comes down to one needing to do homework when engaging in a topic. You can start with a simple idea or statement but need to be open to challenges and need to be able to bring relevant data to answer those challenges. That you were not understanding of what identity politics is not some big mean conspiracy. That you are held to needing to address that, what identity politics actually encompasses, is not some big bad group of website meanies ganging up on you so you need to take your ball and go home.

This is debate and debate about politics, and it is both fun and complex. And the best debates bring in real ideas and the people that espouse them and what things are at stake. Blanket group labeling really doesn't work in debates where people can individually and independently respond.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:22 pm

jetero wrote:
I'm so confused.

Anyone else following the logic?


Still confused, to be honest.

So OP, you’re essentially saying candidates shouldn’t say vote for me because I’m gay/Hispanic/female/black/middle class/Christian/did or didn’t go to Harvard/left handed/speak Spanish/or all of them combined?

If so that eliminates every politician I’ve even seen. Take the speaking Spanish and Hispanic piece and you eliminate politicians across both parties like Beto, Julian Castro, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, GW Bush, JEB!, and several others.

Using religion as identity politics also eliminates nearly every politician running including Two Corinthians, Trump.

You used Obama as someone who didn’t use identity politics to get elected? Yet FOX, Breitbart, and other right wing outlets still claim today Obama was the worst offender, ever to walk the Earth, regarding “identity politics “. You can’t read anything about Obama without someone complaining how many black people voted for him.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17853
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:27 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.

Trump ran using identity politics extensively. Again identity politics are not just sex and race of the person running.
Trump highlighted and attacked foreigners and that the USA was being overrun. And specifically he focused on Mexican's and labeled them as criminals and killers and rapists secreting themselves within the USA.
Another is jobs, "your jobs are being stolen", "I will save your jobs and if you vote the other party you will lose your jobs". Another? "I am rich and successful businessman, the others are government stooges" etc. etc. These are all "identities" that politicians work to create so people feel part of this or that group or, again importantly, very much do not want to be part of "THAT" group etc. and therefore vote against that group.

Trump, like you, and most others in politics, dump opponents into stupid simplistic and impossible categories. "The left", "the right", "LGBT", "White supremacist". Everyone is a group and not an individual to those that practice identity politics, and Trump did that as extensively as anyone. And you definitely hold it dear as well (never following any "left politician"? That right there is identity politics. If you vote against "the left" you fall into the trap of identity politics. Even if you don't or can't understand that.)

Identity politics are heavily practiced by all parties. Identity is not just race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Tugg



Ok, I admit this debate will not go anywhere if we don't agree on an 'official' definition of this term. If you guys want me to wave the white flag as surrender, then you have it. I can't keep up with all of you not agreeing with me on at least the definition of the term. So we can't even debate or argue for our points if we each have a different opinion on the definition of this. It is not worth it having a conversation on something when one can not even agree on the simple terms of what we are debating.

Perhaps this is a subject that its too complex to argue here, so if you guys want to get a win on this, good for you and congratulations.

Perhaps it's not that complex, and you quickly realized that by pointing the finger at the left, you had a fistful of fingers pointing right back at you.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/diction ... 20politics
"politics in which groups of people having a particular racial, religious, ethnic, social, or cultural identity tend to promote their own specific interests or concerns without regard to the interests or concerns of any larger political group"

If that ain't the republican party, I don't know what is.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:54 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
jetero wrote:

I suspect there's a lot of "there there." Very long tails on that whole episode, if you've grown up with family members talking about their property being expropriated. But that has not been the experience of most Americans, so surely one who experienced such things (well, maybe didn't really experience it . . . just heard about it) can understand if most of us don't think such knee-jerk reactions should have outsize influence on our political system. I think most of us agree, let's keep American politics American.


Not only me, millions of immigrants from Eastern Europe migrated to the US because of the Soviet Union. Many many people from many countries migrated to this country running away from the scourge of socialism and communism. I admit nowadays some Cuban-Americans are becoming more liberals and open to 'socialism' since most of their upbringing has been here in the states where they haven't lived any of that.


That's nice - those things are completely irrelevant to American politics and life. None of those scourges are happening here, in any form. We have a lot of rubber-stamped corruption, criminal justice failures that don't live up to the Constitution and the like, but nothing even close to the government/military/a single leader destroying entire swaths of industry, resources and daily life.


x2. I think we all agree that we shouldn't let a bunch of refugee groups have outsize influence on our political system because they had negative experiences in their home countries. And it does seem that, given the severity of such experiences, such groups seem like prime targets for right-wing "socialism" paranoia. Perhaps more civics lessons would help better acquaint them with American political history and traditions so they could better assimilate . . . because if they don't, then that could be rather dangerous.
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:55 pm

SanDiegoLover wrote:
jetero wrote:
I'm so confused.

Anyone else following the logic?


Still confused, to be honest.


Me, too.

Now Air, is it your feeling that minorities have been "duped" into voting for Democrats because of the use of slogans such as "I'm with her" and "Black lives matter"?
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:52 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Trump did not run specifically on identity politics, he did not use his gender or his race in his campaign ads or slogans, unless you can provide some proof of that.

Trump ran using identity politics extensively. Again identity politics are not just sex and race of the person running.
Trump highlighted and attacked foreigners and that the USA was being overrun. And specifically he focused on Mexican's and labeled them as criminals and killers and rapists secreting themselves within the USA.
Another is jobs, "your jobs are being stolen", "I will save your jobs and if you vote the other party you will lose your jobs". Another? "I am rich and successful businessman, the others are government stooges" etc. etc. These are all "identities" that politicians work to create so people feel part of this or that group or, again importantly, very much do not want to be part of "THAT" group etc. and therefore vote against that group.

Trump, like you, and most others in politics, dump opponents into stupid simplistic and impossible categories. "The left", "the right", "LGBT", "White supremacist". Everyone is a group and not an individual to those that practice identity politics, and Trump did that as extensively as anyone. And you definitely hold it dear as well (never following any "left politician"? That right there is identity politics. If you vote against "the left" you fall into the trap of identity politics. Even if you don't or can't understand that.)

Identity politics are heavily practiced by all parties. Identity is not just race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Tugg



Ok, I admit this debate will not go anywhere if we don't agree on an 'official' definition of this term. If you guys want me to wave the white flag as surrender, then you have it. I can't keep up with all of you not agreeing with me on at least the definition of the term. So we can't even debate or argue for our points if we each have a different opinion on the definition of this. It is not worth it having a conversation on something when one can not even agree on the simple terms of what we are debating.

Perhaps this is a subject that its too complex to argue here, so if you guys want to get a win on this, good for you and congratulations.


It’s not that “WE” can’t agree, but rather YOU who couldn’t give any of us a coherent idea of what the frack you even meant. And we didn’t even get to your secondary concern about “virtue signaling”. Perhaps you should meditate on this for awhile. You are clearly upset by “identity politics”, so think long and hard about how to boil that idea down to one sentence along with two or more examples that typify your concern.
 
User avatar
mbmbos
Posts: 2890
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:35 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

I defined it like 5 times already, dont care if none of you believe thats the definition or believe is another one. Most of you defined it your own way, therefore it was a debate nonetheless.


"That's not identity politics.
Identity politics is to say vote for me because I represent your gender/race etc.... or vote for me because I will be better for your race/gender etc...

Right wing who use identity politics are bad too. But Democrats have been proud in using it more forcefully over the years. Remember "I am with her" slogan?"

So this is your definition? Who says "vote for me because I represent your gender?" People celebrate female candidates. People encourage candidates of color. But you don't interpret it that way. You immediately pivot to some mindless narrative they are pandering to their gender or color. That says a whole lot more about you than it does for those who are running for office or encouraging said people to run for office.

And you use "I'm with her" as an example? Wow, that's weak. When only one woman in the race, "I'm with her" makes a lot of sense. But you see it as an appeal to voting specifically for a woman, and that twists your shorts into a bunch.

Very telling. This entire thread - your responses - are a Rorschach test of who you really are.


I have seen a lot of 'virtue signaling' but this certainly takes the cake.

I am not that well 'twitter-versed' to know what Rorschach is, so my apologies for not searching and googling and finding out what exactly is it you mean, but I tend to believe is not good. In any case I don't typically get offended by nothing people say to me, nor by trying to make me feel intellectually inferior by throwing out fancy names or what ever. I don't care.

Anyways, I am not against 'encouraging' minority candidates, in fact because I am Hispanic and not white I tend to encourage other fellow Latinos I know to be active politically, but I truly don't expect them to be 'celebrated' just for being Latinos, I believe they should be 'celebrated' for their ideas, plans and leadership. Which is what people should look at others instead of the color of the skin. There was a time that judging people or treating differently others based on the color of the skin was racism, I personally prefer not to get any advantages or celebrations when I am advancing myself on the world, and I prefer to be treated like everyone else, as a white, Asian, black or any other.

Its funny how we are allowing such a person who treated her fellow women with sexism https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics ... index.html
So it is clear that Hillary Clinton reacted in what could be seen as negative ways. According to some accounts, she at the very least went along with the hiring of a private investigator to look into the background of Gennifer Flowers. Some see her reaction as especially problematic coming from a person who promotes herself as a champion of women
and therefore defend her use of the gender card with such a slogan as "I'm with her" come in and say that she should be treated differently just because she is a woman and she is allowed to use such tactics. That's fine, I understand politicians need to use a lot of tools in order to win.

You seem to be an advocate for identity politics only when is used by the left, that's ok, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to try and pin me as 'this is what you truly are' is not going to shut me out or silence me. Thanks



This is so much gobbledygook it is impossible to even understand your argument. Truth is, you don't have a cogent argument, so you continue to create circular arguments and commit other logical fallacies. Let's make it simple for you:


Identity Politics = a dog whistle for bigots who disdain support for people of color, women and the LGBTQ community.

Virtue Signaling = any act of fairness or support or compassion for people of color, women and the LGBTQ community.


You can hide behind the fig leaf of terminology developed by Right Wing think tanks on K street, but we all know what you're really saying.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:09 pm

mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:

"That's not identity politics.
Identity politics is to say vote for me because I represent your gender/race etc.... or vote for me because I will be better for your race/gender etc...

Right wing who use identity politics are bad too. But Democrats have been proud in using it more forcefully over the years. Remember "I am with her" slogan?"

So this is your definition? Who says "vote for me because I represent your gender?" People celebrate female candidates. People encourage candidates of color. But you don't interpret it that way. You immediately pivot to some mindless narrative they are pandering to their gender or color. That says a whole lot more about you than it does for those who are running for office or encouraging said people to run for office.

And you use "I'm with her" as an example? Wow, that's weak. When only one woman in the race, "I'm with her" makes a lot of sense. But you see it as an appeal to voting specifically for a woman, and that twists your shorts into a bunch.

Very telling. This entire thread - your responses - are a Rorschach test of who you really are.



I have seen a lot of 'virtue signaling' but this certainly takes the cake.

I am not that well 'twitter-versed' to know what Rorschach is, so my apologies for not searching and googling and finding out what exactly is it you mean, but I tend to believe is not good. In any case I don't typically get offended by nothing people say to me, nor by trying to make me feel intellectually inferior by throwing out fancy names or what ever. I don't care.

Anyways, I am not against 'encouraging' minority candidates, in fact because I am Hispanic and not white I tend to encourage other fellow Latinos I know to be active politically, but I truly don't expect them to be 'celebrated' just for being Latinos, I believe they should be 'celebrated' for their ideas, plans and leadership. Which is what people should look at others instead of the color of the skin. There was a time that judging people or treating differently others based on the color of the skin was racism, I personally prefer not to get any advantages or celebrations when I am advancing myself on the world, and I prefer to be treated like everyone else, as a white, Asian, black or any other.

Its funny how we are allowing such a person who treated her fellow women with sexism https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics ... index.html
So it is clear that Hillary Clinton reacted in what could be seen as negative ways. According to some accounts, she at the very least went along with the hiring of a private investigator to look into the background of Gennifer Flowers. Some see her reaction as especially problematic coming from a person who promotes herself as a champion of women
and therefore defend her use of the gender card with such a slogan as "I'm with her" come in and say that she should be treated differently just because she is a woman and she is allowed to use such tactics. That's fine, I understand politicians need to use a lot of tools in order to win.

You seem to be an advocate for identity politics only when is used by the left, that's ok, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to try and pin me as 'this is what you truly are' is not going to shut me out or silence me. Thanks



This is so much gobbledygook it is impossible to even understand your argument. Truth is, you don't have a cogent argument, so you continue to create circular arguments and commit other logical fallacies. Let's make it simple for you:


Identity Politics = a dog whistle for bigots who disdain support for people of color, women and the LGBTQ community.

Virtue Signaling = any act of fairness or support or compassion for people of color, women and the LGBTQ community.


You can hide behind the fig leaf of terminology developed by Right Wing think tanks on K street, but we all know what you're really saying.


Yes, thank you for being the best example of why this subject is real and is a problem. Your entire arguments supports the premise of this thread.

Talk about a terminology developed by the Right wing and used as 'dog whistle' . The champion of the left, one of the most extreme leftist politicians in America:

Sanders slams identity politics as Democrats figure out their future


“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.


https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ ... ics-231710

Of course that's extreme right wing "Politico" and extreme right Bernie Sanders who is supported by most of your SJW friends and 'leaders', but because you don't like others who think differently to say it yes I am racist according to you.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
mbmbos
Posts: 2890
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:17 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


I have seen a lot of 'virtue signaling' but this certainly takes the cake.

I am not that well 'twitter-versed' to know what Rorschach is, so my apologies for not searching and googling and finding out what exactly is it you mean, but I tend to believe is not good. In any case I don't typically get offended by nothing people say to me, nor by trying to make me feel intellectually inferior by throwing out fancy names or what ever. I don't care.

Anyways, I am not against 'encouraging' minority candidates, in fact because I am Hispanic and not white I tend to encourage other fellow Latinos I know to be active politically, but I truly don't expect them to be 'celebrated' just for being Latinos, I believe they should be 'celebrated' for their ideas, plans and leadership. Which is what people should look at others instead of the color of the skin. There was a time that judging people or treating differently others based on the color of the skin was racism, I personally prefer not to get any advantages or celebrations when I am advancing myself on the world, and I prefer to be treated like everyone else, as a white, Asian, black or any other.

Its funny how we are allowing such a person who treated her fellow women with sexism https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/11/politics ... index.html and therefore defend her use of the gender card with such a slogan as "I'm with her" come in and say that she should be treated differently just because she is a woman and she is allowed to use such tactics. That's fine, I understand politicians need to use a lot of tools in order to win.

You seem to be an advocate for identity politics only when is used by the left, that's ok, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to try and pin me as 'this is what you truly are' is not going to shut me out or silence me. Thanks



This is so much gobbledygook it is impossible to even understand your argument. Truth is, you don't have a cogent argument, so you continue to create circular arguments and commit other logical fallacies. Let's make it simple for you:


Identity Politics = a dog whistle for bigots who disdain support for people of color, women and the LGBTQ community.

Virtue Signaling = any act of fairness or support or compassion for people of color, women and the LGBTQ community.


You can hide behind the fig leaf of terminology developed by Right Wing think tanks on K street, but we all know what you're really saying.


Yes, thank you for being the best example of why this subject is real and is a problem. Your entire arguments supports the premise of this thread.

Talk about a terminology developed by the Right wing and used as 'dog whistle' . The champion of the left, one of the most extreme leftist politicians in America:

Sanders slams identity politics as Democrats figure out their future


“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.


https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ ... ics-231710

Of course that's extreme right wing "Politico" and extreme right Bernie Sanders who is supported by most of your SJW friends and 'leaders', but because you don't like others who think differently to say it yes I am racist according to you.


Glad to receive confirmation from you that you're a racist.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:28 pm

mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:


This is so much gobbledygook it is impossible to even understand your argument. Truth is, you don't have a cogent argument, so you continue to create circular arguments and commit other logical fallacies. Let's make it simple for you:


Identity Politics = a dog whistle for bigots who disdain support for people of color, women and the LGBTQ community.

Virtue Signaling = any act of fairness or support or compassion for people of color, women and the LGBTQ community.


You can hide behind the fig leaf of terminology developed by Right Wing think tanks on K street, but we all know what you're really saying.


Yes, thank you for being the best example of why this subject is real and is a problem. Your entire arguments supports the premise of this thread.

Talk about a terminology developed by the Right wing and used as 'dog whistle' . The champion of the left, one of the most extreme leftist politicians in America:

Sanders slams identity politics as Democrats figure out their future


“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.


https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ ... ics-231710

Of course that's extreme right wing "Politico" and extreme right Bernie Sanders who is supported by most of your SJW friends and 'leaders', but because you don't like others who think differently to say it yes I am racist according to you.


Glad to receive confirmation from you that you're a racist.


Really? Where did I say that, you throw fancy words and terms but you cant read?

And btw is Bernie racist or sexist?
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:35 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Yes, thank you for being the best example of why this subject is real and is a problem. Your entire arguments supports the premise of this thread.

Talk about a terminology developed by the Right wing and used as 'dog whistle' . The champion of the left, one of the most extreme leftist politicians in America:

Sanders slams identity politics as Democrats figure out their future


“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,” the Vermont independent senator and former Democratic presidential candidate said in a not-so-subtle rebuke to Hillary Clinton.


https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ ... ics-231710

Of course that's extreme right wing "Politico" and extreme right Bernie Sanders who is supported by most of your SJW friends and 'leaders', but because you don't like others who think differently to say it yes I am racist according to you.


So now the premise of the thread is "identity politics is not enough, and we must do more to 'fight the oligarchy'?"

(Also from your 2016 article)

“We need candidates — black, white and Latino and gay and male, we need all of that. But we need all of those candidates and officials to have the guts to stand up to the oligarchy. That is the fight of today.”

So what you're saying is identity politics are dangerous because we're not doing enough to "fight the oligarchy"? Didn't come through on your initial post saying Democrats may be racists because Cory Booker dropped out of the presidential race, which you cited as being the real "danger."

The argument has taken yet another turn . . .
 
apodino
Posts: 3642
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:18 pm

This thread has me really confused because I have lost track of the point the OP made, but the people that are challenging the OP aren't making sense either with their posts. I will address the issue this way. To say you must vote for a certain candidate because you as a voter are black, gay, female...whatever is wrong. What might seem like a policy that would benefit blacks to a democrat...a right leaning black voter might actually not see that it benefits him and hurts him instead. But...if he as a black man votes against said policy...he is immediately labeled an Uncle Tom. This is the kind of stuff I don't agree with. Likewise, many policies are out there that are supposedly to benefit women. But half the women don't see that it helps them and that it hurts them. I don't see how one party can claim that their policies are good for women when half the women in this country don't even agree with them. One example is the Equal Rights Amendment. (I do support this by the way, but it seems to me its already enshrined in the 14th amendment). The VA assembly just ratified this this past week. This was long after a deadline congress set when they proposed the amendment. The reason the amendment wasn't immediately ratified was because a lot of women lobbied heavily against it. You can question why, but to say they have to ratify it because they are women is exactly what the point I think the OP was making.

I want to step outside politics and point out something noteworthy that fits into this discussion. As many of you may be aware, the NFL has what is known as the "Rooney Rule" in place, in an effort to see more minorities have an opportunity at a Head Coach or GM position in the NFL. What this says is that when a Head Coach or GM opening comes up, the team with the opening must interview at least one minority candidate for the opening. The intent of the rule is good, but it has not had the intended effect. Last year, there were many head coaching openings. Only one was filled by a minority candidate (Miami Dolphins with Brian Flores), and numerous openings saw a minority replaced by a white guy. That left only 4 minority coaches in the NFL (Flores, Mike Tomlin, Anthony Lynn, and Ron Rivera). This offseason, there were five head coaching openings. Only the Washington Redskins was filled by a minority (Rivera after being fired by the Panthers), and he had been a coach for a different team the previous year. More than a third of the vacancies, and only two filled by minorities. That to me is unacceptable and it proves that the Rooney Rule is not working. Part of the problem is with the Rooney Rule in place, many minorities feel if they get an interview, its just a sham to fulfil the Rooney Rule. Many of these candidates just aren't even interviewing any more. That is wrong.
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:32 pm

apodino wrote:
To say you must vote for a certain candidate because you as a voter are black, gay, female...whatever is wrong.


Who is saying that?

apodino wrote:
What might seem like a policy that would benefit blacks to a democrat...a right leaning black voter might actually not see that it benefits him and hurts him instead. But...if he as a black man votes against said policy...he is immediately labeled an Uncle Tom. Likewise, many policies are out there that are supposedly to benefit women. But half the women don't see that it helps them and that it hurts them. I don't see how one party can claim that their policies are good for women when half the women in this country don't even agree with them. One example is the Equal Rights Amendment. (I do support this by the way, but it seems to me its already enshrined in the 14th amendment). The VA assembly just ratified this this past week. This was long after a deadline congress set when they proposed the amendment. The reason the amendment wasn't immediately ratified was because a lot of women lobbied heavily against it. You can question why, but to say they have to ratify it because they are women is exactly what the point I think the OP was making.


I think voters should vote for whomever they think represent their interests. I'm not sure who is suggesting otherwise, except one person seemingly made the statement that people shouldn't vote in their self interest, but rather a common interest. But that was many posts/moons ago . . . Not sure we ever settled on what was "common interest," because the example provided was Obama . . . but it was later revealed that what Obama said was BS, and I don't think BS is in the "common interest."
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:18 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yes, thank you for being the best example of why this subject is real and is a problem. Your entire arguments supports the premise of this thread.

Talk about a terminology developed by the Right wing and used as 'dog whistle' . The champion of the left, one of the most extreme leftist in America:


https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ ... ics-231710

Of course that's extreme right wing "Politico" and extreme right Bernie Sanders who is supported by most of your SJW friends and 'leaders', but because you don't like others who think differently to say it yes I am racist according to you.


Glad to receive confirmation from you that you're a racist.


Really? Where did I say that, you throw fancy words and terms but you cant read?

And btw is Bernie racist or sexist?


‘Gobbledygook’, ‘cogent’, and ‘disdain’ are not fancy words. Especially not because one internet forumer so declares them as such.

Signed,
English language
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:25 am

Well you know what they say, "Fancy words doom nations." So it's a good thing the President speaks at a fourth-grade level.

Now, if someone were to say, "I support President Trump because he talks like me . . . "

Would that be identity politics?

(Well, now that I think about it, maybe it'd be electoral fraud considering fourth graders can't vote.)
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 21454
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:50 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
mbmbos wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yes, thank you for being the best example of why this subject is real and is a problem. Your entire arguments supports the premise of this thread.

Talk about a terminology developed by the Right wing and used as 'dog whistle' . The champion of the left, one of the most extreme leftist politicians in America:





https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/ ... ics-231710

Of course that's extreme right wing "Politico" and extreme right Bernie Sanders who is supported by most of your SJW friends and 'leaders', but because you don't like others who think differently to say it yes I am racist according to you.


Glad to receive confirmation from you that you're a racist.


Really? Where did I say that, you throw fancy words and terms but you cant read?

And btw is Bernie racist or sexist?


Voters who support racist policies because of danger or threat or whatever subtextual violent words and phrases are racist. Look at the racist policies and statements from the Republican administration. Cutting various government programs because illegal Mexicans abuse the system or cutting visas to Muslim only countries in the name of national security or giving up protections for LGBTQ people because it is offensive to offer them equal rights.

And, yes, Bernie probably is racist and sexist. And he knows it and challenges those thoughts. Like many "liberals". I admit I am racist. And I do something about it. I go experience other races and cultures. And I have found they are not the threat Republicans say they are.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:59 am

The more I think about it, the more I think "family values" was the original "identity politics." (Or was it "virtue signaling"? Damn, I'm confused again.)
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10554
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:13 am

jetero wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I think "family values" was the original "identity politics." (Or was it "virtue signaling"? Damn, I'm confused again.)


Evangelicals were using identity politics for a looong time, so it’s fair to say the “family values” movement, especially the resurgent form from the 90s onward, was bigtime virtue signaling (before it was a thing).
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 1337Delta764, Aaron747, casinterest, einsteinboricua, Reinhardt and 64 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos