jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:21 am

Aaron747 wrote:
jetero wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I think "family values" was the original "identity politics." (Or was it "virtue signaling"? Damn, I'm confused again.)


Evangelicals were using identity politics for a looong time, so it’s fair to say the “family values” movement, especially the resurgent form from the 90s onward, was bigtime virtue signaling (before it was a thing).


Well now we’ve really come full circle! I’m a bit dizzy ... !
 
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stl07
Posts: 2043
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:59 am

If you don't like identity politics, start from the top. Tell the president to stop giving black signs that say "blacks for Trump" at his rallies.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:04 am

stl07 wrote:
If you don't like identity politics, start from the top. Tell the president to stop giving black signs that say "blacks for Trump" at his rallies.


Well he did give Ben Carson a job...can’t blame poor Ben for waving that sign at rallies!
 
apodino
Posts: 3651
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:35 pm

stl07 wrote:
If you don't like identity politics, start from the top. Tell the president to stop giving black signs that say "blacks for Trump" at his rallies.

The bad optics of this is there was an infamous photo that showed shirts saying this being worn by white people. That was not a good look.

One last comment I have on this is the notion that the reason people don't get elected or voted for is because of their race or gender. For example, people on here have said the only reason that Barack Obama was not liked was because he is black. I think that's rubbish. I think he is a good man, but I didn't agree with his policies. If I don't agree with your policies, you are not getting my vote. If I do, you get it and I don't care what your race, gender, or sexual orientation are? Same thing with Hillary Clinton. People have said she wasn't elected because she is a woman. That is also rubbish. She did win the popular vote remember, even though that is not how a president is elected per the constitution.
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
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Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:20 pm

@ apodino, I think you have a short memory or are naive, but there was a not insignificant population of elected officials (not to mention the current president) who accused Obama of not being born in the United States. And let's not forget all of the coded language with regard to "Chicago." For the majority of voters, I agree, it did not matter, the fact that race was an issue in his presidency is certainly not "rubbish."
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 1844
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:54 am

Would not be surprised if Identity Politics leads to the breakup of the USA.
 
SanDiegoLover
Posts: 431
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:05 am

jetero wrote:
@ apodino, I think you have a short memory or are naive, but there was a not insignificant population of elected officials (not to mention the current president) who accused Obama of not being born in the United States. And let's not forget all of the coded language with regard to "Chicago." For the majority of voters, I agree, it did not matter, the fact that race was an issue in his presidency is certainly not "rubbish."


Not to mention the watermelon White House meme elected Republicans got busted emailing, or the Obama voodoo doctor with a bone thru Obama’s nose photo they circulated. Or the massive “Tea Party” that wanted us to really believe they only cared about the debt and deficit.....haven’t seen a single one of them since Jan 2017. Or Fox News calling Obama “lazy”, and that “he hates white people”. Or Limbaugh and AM hate radio calling him the “magic negro” or that he was only “half black/mullato” as even some Anetters have reposted.

Don’t even get me started on the Jerimiah Wright hate spewed, or the Muslim nonsense, or the Marxist/Communist insanity they belched out daily.

If this wasn’t a clarion call to white people that Obama isn’t like us, I don’t know what is. Talk about identity politics. But after 8 years of that white Republicans want to lay racism and race relations getting worse at Obama’s feet. :roll:
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:27 am

SanDiegoLover wrote:
jetero wrote:
@ apodino, I think you have a short memory or are naive, but there was a not insignificant population of elected officials (not to mention the current president) who accused Obama of not being born in the United States. And let's not forget all of the coded language with regard to "Chicago." For the majority of voters, I agree, it did not matter, the fact that race was an issue in his presidency is certainly not "rubbish."


Not to mention the watermelon White House meme elected Republicans got busted emailing, or the Obama voodoo doctor with a bone thru Obama’s nose photo they circulated. Or the massive “Tea Party” that wanted us to really believe they only cared about the debt and deficit.....haven’t seen a single one of them since Jan 2017. Or Fox News calling Obama “lazy”, and that “he hates white people”. Or Limbaugh and AM hate radio calling him the “magic negro” or that he was only “half black/mullato” as even some Anetters have reposted.

Don’t even get me started on the Jerimiah Wright hate spewed, or the Muslim nonsense, or the Marxist/Communist insanity they belched out daily.

If this wasn’t a clarion call to white people that Obama isn’t like us, I don’t know what is. Talk about identity politics. But after 8 years of that white Republicans want to lay racism and race relations getting worse at Obama’s feet. :roll:


Well SDL, you did a much better job than I could to put the “rubbish” claim to, er, “rubbish.”
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17865
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:19 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Would not be surprised if Identity Politics leads to the breakup of the USA.

The white rage following the last almost-breakup of the USA was never properly dealt with--in fact it was largely allowed to reassemble the antebellum order, and it is still trying to "make america great again" today.

apodino wrote:
One last comment I have on this is the notion that the reason people don't get elected or voted for is because of their race or gender. For example, people on here have said the only reason that Barack Obama was not liked was because he is black. I think that's rubbish. I think he is a good man, but I didn't agree with his policies.

Sounds nice, but it's not quite reality. In fact Trump can be traced to an inflection point when McCain ran against Obama, and said something to the effect of what you stated (he's a good man, but I don't agree with his politics). Unfortunately his VP was a dumpster weasel who drummed up the frothing of the GOP base that Obama was a mooselamb gay prostitute doing tricks for coke and Soros and was going to make everyone gay and Muslim. Guess which version of the GOP survived that pairing, and only snowballed in unhinged ugliness? It wasn't McCain, whose grave is a GOP outhouse at this point.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
apodino
Posts: 3651
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:24 pm

I was watching rising today and Saagar Enjeti had a monologue which reminded me of this very discussion. Keep in mind Rising Today (the Hill) is a very progressive show and these people are far from conservative at all. But he points out that Identity Politics may have killed Elizabeth Warren, they killed Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Deval Patrick, and also Kirsten Gillibrand, and that you need to look at actual issues that will help these groups and not just pander. This is an excellent piece and I encourage everyone to watch. Also Krystal Ball has some really good pieces on this as well, especially the video where she talks about the demise of Elizabeth Warren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxgKN2zXJtg
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13078
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:09 pm

apodino wrote:
I was watching rising today and Saagar Enjeti had a monologue which reminded me of this very discussion. Keep in mind Rising Today (the Hill) is a very progressive show and these people are far from conservative at all. But he points out that Identity Politics may have killed Elizabeth Warren, they killed Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Deval Patrick, and also Kirsten Gillibrand, and that you need to look at actual issues that will help these groups and not just pander. This is an excellent piece and I encourage everyone to watch. Also Krystal Ball has some really good pieces on this as well, especially the video where she talks about the demise of Elizabeth Warren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxgKN2zXJtg


I disagree that Identity politics killed those candidates, it may have hurt Booker but Harris isn't around anymore because she very Hillary like. nobody liked her and she felt being a minority woman it was owed to her, Patrick and Gillibrand didn't belong in the race, nobody knew them and they just ran to get on TV. Warren is fringe and again not likable like Hillary.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
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seb146
Posts: 21487
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:35 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
apodino wrote:
I was watching rising today and Saagar Enjeti had a monologue which reminded me of this very discussion. Keep in mind Rising Today (the Hill) is a very progressive show and these people are far from conservative at all. But he points out that Identity Politics may have killed Elizabeth Warren, they killed Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Deval Patrick, and also Kirsten Gillibrand, and that you need to look at actual issues that will help these groups and not just pander. This is an excellent piece and I encourage everyone to watch. Also Krystal Ball has some really good pieces on this as well, especially the video where she talks about the demise of Elizabeth Warren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxgKN2zXJtg


I disagree that Identity politics killed those candidates, it may have hurt Booker but Harris isn't around anymore because she very Hillary like. nobody liked her and she felt being a minority woman it was owed to her, Patrick and Gillibrand didn't belong in the race, nobody knew them and they just ran to get on TV. Warren is fringe and again not likable like Hillary.


Again, Hillary is not running. She won the popular vote by ~3,000,000. But, she is not running. Republicans keep whining about her like it is 2016. Democrats have moved on. We are facing issues in 2020. Working families still do not have affordable health care, the debt is out of control, the deficit is out of control, student loans are out of control, the cost of housing is out of control, our allies are less certain about us, our enemies find they can take advantage of us. These are now 2020 issues, not 2016 issues.

The candidates who have dropped out dropped out because they did not have the money raising skills, pure and simple. Zero to do with their gender or skin color as the right loves to whine about.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:29 pm

apodino wrote:
I was watching rising today and Saagar Enjeti had a monologue which reminded me of this very discussion. Keep in mind Rising Today (the Hill) is a very progressive show and these people are far from conservative at all. But he points out that Identity Politics may have killed Elizabeth Warren, they killed Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Deval Patrick, and also Kirsten Gillibrand, and that you need to look at actual issues that will help these groups and not just pander. This is an excellent piece and I encourage everyone to watch. Also Krystal Ball has some really good pieces on this as well, especially the video where she talks about the demise of Elizabeth Warren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxgKN2zXJtg


I mean the reprehensible appropriation of Native culture is what put down Warren. When Trump is teaching you a lesson on social justice, it means you've messed up badly. She should be ashamed of what she did to get hired by Penn and Harvard. It means the rest of her career was in effect stolen. It's time to reflect on what she did wrong. She had great potential as a leader and was (and is) the most talented candidate in my view. The question was, can she be redeemed for her awful misdeeds, in light of the significant good deeds and potential she has. The answer appears to be no.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 13078
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:41 pm

seb146 wrote:
Again, Hillary is not running.


The way things are going she may show at the convention.

seb146 wrote:



She won the popular vote by ~3,000,000.


This plus a few quarters will get you a bag of potato chips.

seb146 wrote:

The candidates who have dropped out dropped out because they did not have the money raising skills, pure and simple. Zero to do with their gender or skin color as the right loves to whine about


Candidate's get money first for being viable (Harris never was) then how they poll etc. You and many others fell into the trap that if you are a minority and female you automatically are the right candidate at the right time etc. It's a media driven thing and like most things the media says is totally opposite of reality.
Nikon from day one, Nikon till I die.
 
AirWorthy99
Topic Author
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:45 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
apodino wrote:
I was watching rising today and Saagar Enjeti had a monologue which reminded me of this very discussion. Keep in mind Rising Today (the Hill) is a very progressive show and these people are far from conservative at all. But he points out that Identity Politics may have killed Elizabeth Warren, they killed Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Deval Patrick, and also Kirsten Gillibrand, and that you need to look at actual issues that will help these groups and not just pander. This is an excellent piece and I encourage everyone to watch. Also Krystal Ball has some really good pieces on this as well, especially the video where she talks about the demise of Elizabeth Warren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxgKN2zXJtg


I mean the reprehensible appropriation of Native culture is what put down Warren. When Trump is teaching you a lesson on social justice, it means you've messed up badly. She should be ashamed of what she did to get hired by Penn and Harvard. It means the rest of her career was in effect stolen. It's time to reflect on what she did wrong. She had great potential as a leader and was (and is) the most talented candidate in my view. The question was, can she be redeemed for her awful misdeeds, in light of the significant good deeds and potential she has. The answer appears to be no.


Warren abused identity politics like crazy, when that came out, she needed to use the gender card, which she used when she accused Sanders of saying to her a woman can't be president. That backfired, since yes many Americans don't like this game.

But I got to say, she is the phoniest candidate there is, has huge trust issues since she has lied many times, not only with her supposed 'Native American' heritage, about her being fired for being pregnant, for saying her children all went to public school (when one did not). She is worth 11+ Million, made by her teaching on those schools maybe using her fake heritage as a way to get in.

Don't know but she strikes as a horrible human being, just recently she made a point to say that a broke college student gave her half of her savings, which was 3 dollars to her campaign, as if that's something to feel happy about.

The other day some minority staffers in Nevada were complaining that were being used as 'tokens'. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... gn-949201/

I think Warren is waiting for Sanders to get another heart attack, because basically she is toast, and I hope she can be a text book examples of why identity politics should not be used.
“In my experience eloquent men are right every bit as often as imbeciles.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 10615
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:44 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
apodino wrote:
I was watching rising today and Saagar Enjeti had a monologue which reminded me of this very discussion. Keep in mind Rising Today (the Hill) is a very progressive show and these people are far from conservative at all. But he points out that Identity Politics may have killed Elizabeth Warren, they killed Kamala Harris, Cory Booker and Deval Patrick, and also Kirsten Gillibrand, and that you need to look at actual issues that will help these groups and not just pander. This is an excellent piece and I encourage everyone to watch. Also Krystal Ball has some really good pieces on this as well, especially the video where she talks about the demise of Elizabeth Warren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxgKN2zXJtg


I mean the reprehensible appropriation of Native culture is what put down Warren. When Trump is teaching you a lesson on social justice, it means you've messed up badly. She should be ashamed of what she did to get hired by Penn and Harvard. It means the rest of her career was in effect stolen. It's time to reflect on what she did wrong. She had great potential as a leader and was (and is) the most talented candidate in my view. The question was, can she be redeemed for her awful misdeeds, in light of the significant good deeds and potential she has. The answer appears to be no.


Warren abused identity politics like crazy, when that came out, she needed to use the gender card, which she used when she accused Sanders of saying to her a woman can't be president. That backfired, since yes many Americans don't like this game.

But I got to say, she is the phoniest candidate there is, has huge trust issues since she has lied many times, not only with her supposed 'Native American' heritage, about her being fired for being pregnant, for saying her children all went to public school (when one did not). She is worth 11+ Million, made by her teaching on those schools maybe using her fake heritage as a way to get in.

Don't know but she strikes as a horrible human being, just recently she made a point to say that a broke college student gave her half of her savings, which was 3 dollars to her campaign, as if that's something to feel happy about.

The other day some minority staffers in Nevada were complaining that were being used as 'tokens'. https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... gn-949201/

I think Warren is waiting for Sanders to get another heart attack, because basically she is toast, and I hope she can be a text book examples of why identity politics should not be used.


She has no chance against Sanders because he specifically states his campaign is for all working Americans regardless of color, gender, etc. He constantly emphasizes togetherness instead of identities.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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seb146
Posts: 21487
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Identity Politics in America

Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:39 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Again, Hillary is not running.


The way things are going she may show at the convention.


Of course she will. To endorse the eventual nominee.

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The candidates who have dropped out dropped out because they did not have the money raising skills, pure and simple. Zero to do with their gender or skin color as the right loves to whine about


Candidate's get money first for being viable (Harris never was) then how they poll etc. You and many others fell into the trap that if you are a minority and female you automatically are the right candidate at the right time etc. It's a media driven thing and like most things the media says is totally opposite of reality.


That is according to Republican media outlets. According to Democratic voters, no. Kamala Harris really did not have much name recognition for Democrats outside the West Coast. Cory Booker never had much name recognition for Democrats outside the Northeast. The only reason I knew about Buttigieg and Hickenlooper is they appeared on shows I watch and listen to.

Again, you make the mistake of assuming Democrats only vote based on skin color and sexual orientation. Here's an idea: let Democrats pick their candidate. You Republicans want to pick a candidate? Get someone who can pull in the moderates instead of pushing millions away? Milo whatshisname or Ben Carson? Republicans are obsessed with sexual orientation and skin color, so that seems about right...
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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