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casinterest
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:45 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
We can assume at least 2 hours on any surface in non-extreme conditions, and longer on porous surfaces and in the cold.


Why there is so much discrepancy in survival times on hard surfaces? A quick glance shows from 8 hrs to several days, up to 20 days. These are not blogs but studies by reputed medical institutions.


Humidity, Temperature, exposure to sunlight play a part in it. So quite honestly it varies by a lot.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
SRQLOT
Posts: 456
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:16 pm

Well it finally reached Florida. We have had quite a bit of cold weather the past month so I wonder how much this one person managed to spread this around. We do have Spring Training going on for a week now, and this area with Sarasota County has tons of older 55+ plus people. Will be interesting to see how this develops here

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/20 ... d-to-know/
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casinterest
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:40 pm

SRQLOT wrote:
Well it finally reached Florida. We have had quite a bit of cold weather the past month so I wonder how much this one person managed to spread this around. We do have Spring Training going on for a week now, and this area with Sarasota County has tons of older 55+ plus people. Will be interesting to see how this develops here

https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/20 ... d-to-know/


It's all over the US by now. California, NY, RI, FL, WA Once all the business travelers went home for the weekend, and went to various family meetings, churches, dinners, weddings, and other celebrations, it has spread. The low rate of symptomatic onset is going to allow it to be spread all over through schools and businesses in the coming weeks.

The thing that gets me is that the folks are dying in Nursing homes. These folks aren't mobile. Someone brought it to them .
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
zakuivcustom
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:44 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
I am going to Bali on the 20th and flying YYZ-TPE-DPS. Taiwan seems to have this under control as does Indonesia, I will be as prepared as I can be. I have a 22hr layover at TPE (9pm to 7pm) on the way back on April 2nd-3rd. I was planning to go into Taipei but might do something like a hike to avoid the crowds.


It was never "under control" in Indonesia as they never really tested anybody, nor there was a confirmed case until today. You can't "control" something that never existed :).

Of course, since Bali is somewhat a safe zone, there are ~1000 of Chinese tourists that try to stay there as long as possible instead going back to mainland.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/as ... i-12485054

trpmb6 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
With many factories in China closed, fashion companies are having to shift their supply chain to other countries, and this will cause a production strain for the Fall/Winter 2020-2021 fashion season, creating potential shortages of Fall/Winter clothes. While Spring/Summer 2020 shouldn't see much impact since much of the ordering and production has already taken place ahead of time (some products just simply haven't been put on store shelves yet), production of clothes for the Fall/Winter 2020-2021 fashion season could indeed see an impact from the coronavirus.

While I don't buy as much Fall/Winter clothes as much as Spring/Summer due to my local climate, I just wonder how will those up north (where Fall/Winter wardrobes dominate) will be impacted.


Thrift store clothing will probably become chique again out of necessity, like during the great recession. It's not such a bad thing. It's less wasteful.


Now that is some epic trolling


Come on now...nobody will make a run for pink color clothing :duck:

trpmb6 wrote:
Then on friday only 350 cases reported out of china. That doesn't make sense!


Whether the number is real or not is one thing (There bound to be some underreporting). But people also have to keep in mind that cities are literally like ghost towns with nobody heading anywhere. Basically every single place down to small towns have checkpoints just for people to get out of their home.

Such draconian measures do work whether people agree or not. With China reopening their factories, though, I would be surprise if the number stayed this low.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:50 pm

casinterest wrote:
It's all over the US by now. California, NY, RI, FL, WA Once all the business travelers went home for the weekend, and went to various family meetings, churches, dinners, weddings, and other celebrations, it has spread. The low rate of symptomatic onset is going to allow it to be spread all over through schools and businesses in the coming weeks.


I wish authorities are proactive and temporarily shut down schools, or switch to online teaching.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:02 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It's all over the US by now. California, NY, RI, FL, WA Once all the business travelers went home for the weekend, and went to various family meetings, churches, dinners, weddings, and other celebrations, it has spread. The low rate of symptomatic onset is going to allow it to be spread all over through schools and businesses in the coming weeks.


I wish authorities are proactive and temporarily shut down schools, or switch to online teaching.


I am not sure it will help, the disease isn't in every state, and for most folks it is not a complicated problem, it is just a cold. As stated earlier in the thread, there is not enough testing going on. I went in to see if I had the flu a few weeks ago. They asked if I had been to China, I said no. They gave me a flu test. I didn't have the flu. 3 days later i was fine. It could have been a cold, it could have been coronavirus, but no one knows since i didn't meet the narrow criteria for coronavirus testing.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
theaviator380
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:11 pm

What are the odds that one comes in contact with infected person and still does't catch it? can some people with very good immunity avoid it despite of coming in contact with infected person?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:20 pm

theaviator380 wrote:
What are the odds that one comes in contact with infected person and still does't catch it? can some people with very good immunity avoid it despite of coming in contact with infected person?



Quite high it would seem. Especially with kids. Many are remaining asymptomatic. That means they show no signs of the disease, but they are carrying it. It may be delayed for 4 days to a week, or it may go without causing symptoms. These folks would have to have rather close contact with someone to transmit it as they are probably not sneezing or coughing. However areas with poor sanitation / other issues might be prone to transmission.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:26 pm

In Norway, it has spread both via China and Italy.

One of the cases is quite crazy. A medical doctor working at Ullevål University Hospital (one of the leading hospitals in Norway) came home from vacation in Italy. On arrival back home, he asked to be tested for Coronavirus because he didn't want to potentially spread the disease to any of his patients.

He was denied. Not necessary, they said.

Then two days later, he strongly insisted on taking the Coronavirus test. Guess what? He was infected. Now 5 of his collegues are infected as well, and 200 of his patients are in quarantine.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:36 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
In Norway, it has spread both via China and Italy.

One of the cases is quite crazy. A medical doctor working at Ullevål University Hospital (one of the leading hospitals in Norway) came home from vacation in Italy. On arrival back home, he asked to be tested for Coronavirus because he didn't want to potentially spread the disease to any of his patients.

He was denied. Not necessary, they said.

Then two days later, he strongly insisted on taking the Coronavirus test. Guess what? He was infected. Now 5 of his collegues are infected as well, and 200 of his patients are in quarantine.


I thought Norway has one of the best healthcare systems in the world, this guy was a doctor, imagine someone who isn't.

One thing this crisis is exposing is the myths that all healthcare systems except the US are better. Turns out no system is perfect.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:48 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
One thing this crisis is exposing is the myths that all healthcare systems except the US are better. Turns out no system is perfect.


Correct no system is perfect, but this is a unique situation and has to be treated seperately to the bigger argument about why many countries healthcare is better and more affordable for the majority of it's citizens. A discussion for another thread, another time.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:09 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
In Norway, it has spread both via China and Italy.

One of the cases is quite crazy. A medical doctor working at Ullevål University Hospital (one of the leading hospitals in Norway) came home from vacation in Italy. On arrival back home, he asked to be tested for Coronavirus because he didn't want to potentially spread the disease to any of his patients.

He was denied. Not necessary, they said.

Then two days later, he strongly insisted on taking the Coronavirus test. Guess what? He was infected. Now 5 of his collegues are infected as well, and 200 of his patients are in quarantine.


I thought Norway has one of the best healthcare systems in the world, this guy was a doctor, imagine someone who isn't.

One thing this crisis is exposing is the myths that all healthcare systems except the US are better. Turns out no system is perfect.


The biggest problem in the public sector is that incompetancy raises through the ranks. If someone in a mid level position makes an error, they're punished by being a) either moved to another geographical area, or b) to a higher position. Why? Because it's almost impossible to get fired in the public sector. The labor laws are extreme. I would put money on that the mid level leader that denied his initial request for a test was put in the current position by being incompetent in the first place.

And it's not only in the public health sector. It's in law enforcement and child protection services as well. Murder cases are rarely solved in Norway, and wrongful convictions are plentyful. And by now Norway has become famous throughout Europe for all the child protection cases where kids were wrongfully taken from their parents by the government.

In a system like this, the competent, creative and intelligent leaders are all in the private sector.

I know this isn't unique to Norway, but the problem is pretty bad here.
 
art
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:13 pm

I think worldwide infection is bound to take place, except for very isolated places.

If I have not misunderstood the announcement, a number of hospitals in UK have been nominated to test people attending the hospital (perhaps on a random basis) with a view to picking up asymptomatic/early infection data. Those data could provide a useful guide to what proportion of the population is infected. With 40 UK cases confirmed, the 'official' infection rate is currently below one in a million.
 
theaviator380
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:37 pm

casinterest wrote:
theaviator380 wrote:
What are the odds that one comes in contact with infected person and still does't catch it? can some people with very good immunity avoid it despite of coming in contact with infected person?



Quite high it would seem. Especially with kids. Many are remaining asymptomatic. That means they show no signs of the disease, but they are carrying it. It may be delayed for 4 days to a week, or it may go without causing symptoms. These folks would have to have rather close contact with someone to transmit it as they are probably not sneezing or coughing. However areas with poor sanitation / other issues might be prone to transmission.


Thanks :)
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:58 pm

1337Delta764 wrote:
With many factories in China closed, fashion companies are having to shift their supply chain to other countries, and this will cause a production strain for the Fall/Winter 2020-2021 fashion season, creating potential shortages of Fall/Winter clothes. While Spring/Summer 2020 shouldn't see much impact since much of the ordering and production has already taken place ahead of time (some products just simply haven't been put on store shelves yet), production of clothes for the Fall/Winter 2020-2021 fashion season could indeed see an impact from the coronavirus.

While I don't buy as much Fall/Winter clothes as much as Spring/Summer due to my local climate, I just wonder how will those up north (where Fall/Winter wardrobes dominate) will be impacted.


Congrats,

Your trollness knows no limits. You have people dying from this disease. This disease could possibly devastate the global economy and yet, like clockwork, here you are wondering about fashion. And yet the moderators allow your trolling to occur.
 
kalvado
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:18 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
With many factories in China closed, fashion companies are having to shift their supply chain to other countries, and this will cause a production strain for the Fall/Winter 2020-2021 fashion season, creating potential shortages of Fall/Winter clothes. While Spring/Summer 2020 shouldn't see much impact since much of the ordering and production has already taken place ahead of time (some products just simply haven't been put on store shelves yet), production of clothes for the Fall/Winter 2020-2021 fashion season could indeed see an impact from the coronavirus.

While I don't buy as much Fall/Winter clothes as much as Spring/Summer due to my local climate, I just wonder how will those up north (where Fall/Winter wardrobes dominate) will be impacted.


Congrats,

Your trollness knows no limits. You have people dying from this disease. This disease could possibly devastate the global economy and yet, like clockwork, here you are wondering about fashion. And yet the moderators allow your trolling to occur.

Fashion is as much part of economy as many other things. There is a thread discussing virus effect on airlines and aviation, for example, as that effect is quite significant.
And clothing may be a pretty good example to think about effect of this epidemics on economy.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:23 pm

kalvado wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
1337Delta764 wrote:
With many factories in China closed, fashion companies are having to shift their supply chain to other countries, and this will cause a production strain for the Fall/Winter 2020-2021 fashion season, creating potential shortages of Fall/Winter clothes. While Spring/Summer 2020 shouldn't see much impact since much of the ordering and production has already taken place ahead of time (some products just simply haven't been put on store shelves yet), production of clothes for the Fall/Winter 2020-2021 fashion season could indeed see an impact from the coronavirus.

While I don't buy as much Fall/Winter clothes as much as Spring/Summer due to my local climate, I just wonder how will those up north (where Fall/Winter wardrobes dominate) will be impacted.


Congrats,

Your trollness knows no limits. You have people dying from this disease. This disease could possibly devastate the global economy and yet, like clockwork, here you are wondering about fashion. And yet the moderators allow your trolling to occur.

Fashion is as much part of economy as many other things. There is a thread discussing virus effect on airlines and aviation, for example, as that effect is quite significant.
And clothing may be a pretty good example to think about effect of this epidemics on economy.


I agree. I don't see the problem with the post about fashion industry.

The whole world is affected by this Coronavirus. Textiles and electronics are two of the biggest and most important industries in China.
 
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cjg225
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:00 pm

The trade war (which is still going on, in case people forgot) gave serious legs to the expansion of manufacturing capability in locales other than China, particularly southeast Asia. This crisis will only make that bigger.

China will continue to be the world's foremost factory, but more and more situations are causing companies to realize they need to invest in redundancy and need to forgo absolute single-source programs in the name of cost/simplicity.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:29 pm

My company now has officially banned travel to China, South Korea, and Italy. Even if for personal reasons.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:13 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
My company now has officially banned travel to China, South Korea, and Italy. Even if for personal reasons.
They can do that?
If my employer pulled that stunt, they would have two problems on their hands.
50% of the workforce would go where they want, when they want (if it's in their own time), and "forget" to tell their employer - it's none of their business. Not in the free world anyways....
The other half of the workforce would be busy looking for new jobs.

I could possibly understand if you are in a critical role (say a doctor) and interface with the public who expect you to be healthy (even if they aren't).
But the rest of us?

Next you'll be telling me your employer won't be doing business with anyone who has been to China, Korea, Italy.... otherwise these measures are pointless. Come back to me when your company starts turning away paying customers based on where they have been in the last month. :banghead:

What would be more persuasive is peer pressure from your work colleagues, asking if you enjoyed your "long weekend", and BTW where did you go.....?
I expect we would suddenly find that an awful lot of business decisions could be accomplished via e-mail and video conferences. Nobody would be hanging around at the coffee machine, and productivity would skyrocket. This could be the death of unnecessary business travel, and a massive impact for the airline industry. :scratchchin:
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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cjg225
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:22 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
What would be more persuasive is peer pressure from your work colleagues, asking if you enjoyed your "long weekend", and BTW where did you go.....?
I expect we would suddenly find that an awful lot of business decisions could be accomplished via e-mail and video conferences. Nobody would be hanging around at the coffee machine, and productivity would skyrocket. This could be the death of unnecessary business travel, and a massive impact for the airline industry. :scratchchin:

While I work from home a lot and feel I am more productive at home than in the office, there's only so much you can do by email and conference calls. I, personally, feel more productive at home, but face-to-face meetings feel far more productive than anything via a conference call. And email chains quickly spin wildly out of control as chains are bifurcated, trifurcated, or worse and people who you didn't want added are added or a sentence is interpreted in the wrong way because of the lack of nonverbal cues in email...

This will be an interesting unplanned study for a lot of businesses in terms of productivity, but I'm sure the result will be a mixed bag. Some things will improve, some things with suffer.

Anyway, back to the original point you'd quoted... I can't imagine how a business can seriously restrict personal travel unless the overtly-stated rationale is, "If you travel to these areas, your risk of being infected is much higher, and we don't want you to come to the office and infect your colleagues." But they can't actually prevent you from traveling somewhere you want personally.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:26 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
My company now has officially banned travel to China, South Korea, and Italy. Even if for personal reasons.
They can do that?
If my employer pulled that stunt, they would have two problems on their hands.
50% of the workforce would go where they want, when they want (if it's in their own time), and "forget" to tell their employer - it's none of their business. Not in the free world anyways....
The other half of the workforce would be busy looking for new jobs.

I could possibly understand if you are in a critical role (say a doctor) and interface with the public who expect you to be healthy (even if they aren't).
But the rest of us?

Next you'll be telling me your employer won't be doing business with anyone who has been to China, Korea, Italy.... otherwise these measures are pointless. Come back to me when your company starts turning away paying customers based on where they have been in the last month. :banghead:

What would be more persuasive is peer pressure from your work colleagues, asking if you enjoyed your "long weekend", and BTW where did you go.....?
I expect we would suddenly find that an awful lot of business decisions could be accomplished via e-mail and video conferences. Nobody would be hanging around at the coffee machine, and productivity would skyrocket. This could be the death of unnecessary business travel, and a massive impact for the airline industry. :scratchchin:

My employer requires work from home or PTO for two weeks after traveling from those areas (China, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, and Italy).

If you want to boost productivity, halt all sports. :devil:


Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:00 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
My company now has officially banned travel to China, South Korea, and Italy. Even if for personal reasons.


Seems rather pointless at this point as the virus is rather rampant at this point, even in countries outside that cluster.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3431
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:12 pm

Well, time for an ArchGuy1 style post :).

Jumbo Floating Restaurant, an iconic seafood restaurant in Hong Kong, is "closing until further notice" with all employees there being laid off. The owner cited nCoV and the resulting reduced demand (as people are definitely dining out a lot less, also, tourist numbers basically drop to nothing in HK) as the last straw.

https://www.scmp.com/business/companies ... -queen-tom

The local reaction is mixed - most locals (including me) have not been to the restaurant as it's basically a tourist trap nowaday with average food but tourist price, and the restaurant itself had been struggling for awhile. On the other hand, it does represent an era of Hong Kong where extravagance is everywhere, endless growths, and anyone can struck rich easily with golds to be mined anywhere you go.
=======================================================
Meanwhile, back in US...
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coro ... 98f445de9c

Death toll up to 6 in US, all in Washington State.

One has to wonder how many deaths in US was due to nCoV but were not counted that way as they didn't run any tests.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:40 pm

I guess like all self-things in the world self-monitoring didn't work.

Now own immunity to the rescue.
All posts are just opinions.
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3792
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:23 pm

cjg225 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
What would be more persuasive is peer pressure from your work colleagues, asking if you enjoyed your "long weekend", and BTW where did you go.....?
I expect we would suddenly find that an awful lot of business decisions could be accomplished via e-mail and video conferences. Nobody would be hanging around at the coffee machine, and productivity would skyrocket. This could be the death of unnecessary business travel, and a massive impact for the airline industry. :scratchchin:

While I work from home a lot and feel I am more productive at home than in the office, there's only so much you can do by email and conference calls. I, personally, feel more productive at home, but face-to-face meetings feel far more productive than anything via a conference call. And email chains quickly spin wildly out of control as chains are bifurcated, trifurcated, or worse and people who you didn't want added are added or a sentence is interpreted in the wrong way because of the lack of nonverbal cues in email...

This will be an interesting unplanned study for a lot of businesses in terms of productivity, but I'm sure the result will be a mixed bag. Some things will improve, some things with suffer.

Anyway, back to the original point you'd quoted... I can't imagine how a business can seriously restrict personal travel unless the overtly-stated rationale is, "If you travel to these areas, your risk of being infected is much higher, and we don't want you to come to the office and infect your colleagues." But they can't actually prevent you from traveling somewhere you want personally.


I can't speak for Dieuwer but this might be for business travel only.

My company has stopped all business travel to and suggests against personal travel to.

- China
- Singapore
- Italy
- Iran
- South Korea
- Japan
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3792
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:25 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
SheikhDjibouti wrote:
What would be more persuasive is peer pressure from your work colleagues, asking if you enjoyed your "long weekend", and BTW where did you go.....?
I expect we would suddenly find that an awful lot of business decisions could be accomplished via e-mail and video conferences. Nobody would be hanging around at the coffee machine, and productivity would skyrocket. This could be the death of unnecessary business travel, and a massive impact for the airline industry. :scratchchin:

While I work from home a lot and feel I am more productive at home than in the office, there's only so much you can do by email and conference calls. I, personally, feel more productive at home, but face-to-face meetings feel far more productive than anything via a conference call. And email chains quickly spin wildly out of control as chains are bifurcated, trifurcated, or worse and people who you didn't want added are added or a sentence is interpreted in the wrong way because of the lack of nonverbal cues in email...

This will be an interesting unplanned study for a lot of businesses in terms of productivity, but I'm sure the result will be a mixed bag. Some things will improve, some things with suffer.

Anyway, back to the original point you'd quoted... I can't imagine how a business can seriously restrict personal travel unless the overtly-stated rationale is, "If you travel to these areas, your risk of being infected is much higher, and we don't want you to come to the office and infect your colleagues." But they can't actually prevent you from traveling somewhere you want personally.


I can't speak for Dieuwer but this might be for business travel only.

My company has stopped all business travel to and suggests against personal travel to.

- China
- Singapore
- Italy
- Iran
- South Korea
- Japan


Discard my last post, Dieuwer did say personal reasons.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:40 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
My company now has officially banned travel to China, South Korea, and Italy. Even if for personal reasons.
They can do that?
If my employer pulled that stunt, they would have two problems on their hands.
50% of the workforce would go where they want, when they want (if it's in their own time), and "forget" to tell their employer - it's none of their business. Not in the free world anyways....
The other half of the workforce would be busy looking for new jobs.

I could possibly understand if you are in a critical role (say a doctor) and interface with the public who expect you to be healthy (even if they aren't).
But the rest of us?

Next you'll be telling me your employer won't be doing business with anyone who has been to China, Korea, Italy.... otherwise these measures are pointless. Come back to me when your company starts turning away paying customers based on where they have been in the last month. :banghead:

What would be more persuasive is peer pressure from your work colleagues, asking if you enjoyed your "long weekend", and BTW where did you go.....?
I expect we would suddenly find that an awful lot of business decisions could be accomplished via e-mail and video conferences. Nobody would be hanging around at the coffee machine, and productivity would skyrocket. This could be the death of unnecessary business travel, and a massive impact for the airline industry. :scratchchin:


My hunch is even the big companies will only be able to go with this no business travel for so long. I expect by May-June as we see an inevitable downtick of cases they'll resume again. Video conferencing only gets you so far.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:07 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
I thought Norway has one of the best healthcare systems in the world, this guy was a doctor, imagine someone who isn't.

One thing this crisis is exposing is the myths that all healthcare systems except the US are better. Turns out no system is perfect.


You and casinterest seem to be under the impression that there is a cheap, readily available and reliable test for this, but that's not the case (yet).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/heal ... g-cdc.html
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:15 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
My hunch is even the big companies will only be able to go with this no business travel for so long. I expect by May-June as we see an inevitable downtick of cases they'll resume again. Video conferencing only gets you so far.


Due to an attack by hackers videoconferencing is down at my company for more than a month now, still international travel has been halted, even to non affected countries. When we switch it back on I expect the systems to be used like crazy.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1393
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:35 am

i am worried that Trump will get the corona virus going to all these rallies all over the country, Why the risk when your president, and he's 73 .
some of the democratic candidates might also get it, because of their age, yet they are all out there in crowds campaigning all over 70 what could possible go wrong.
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:39 am

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
i am worried that Trump will get the corona virus going to all these rallies all over the country, Why the risk when your president, and he's 73 .
some of the democratic candidates might also get it, because of their age, yet they are all out there in crowds campaigning all over 70 what could possible go wrong.


They are all outside of Bernie though who has had recent heart surgery in good condition. Remember that so far outside of China even the over 70 group has "only" had a 14% mortality rate so its still statistically low one of them would die from it but its certainly a possible risk
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2325
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:39 am

StarAC17 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
While I work from home a lot and feel I am more productive at home than in the office, there's only so much you can do by email and conference calls. I, personally, feel more productive at home, but face-to-face meetings feel far more productive than anything via a conference call. And email chains quickly spin wildly out of control as chains are bifurcated, trifurcated, or worse and people who you didn't want added are added or a sentence is interpreted in the wrong way because of the lack of nonverbal cues in email...

This will be an interesting unplanned study for a lot of businesses in terms of productivity, but I'm sure the result will be a mixed bag. Some things will improve, some things with suffer.

Anyway, back to the original point you'd quoted... I can't imagine how a business can seriously restrict personal travel unless the overtly-stated rationale is, "If you travel to these areas, your risk of being infected is much higher, and we don't want you to come to the office and infect your colleagues." But they can't actually prevent you from traveling somewhere you want personally.


I can't speak for Dieuwer but this might be for business travel only.

My company has stopped all business travel to and suggests against personal travel to.

- China
- Singapore
- Italy
- Iran
- South Korea
- Japan


Discard my last post, Dieuwer did say personal reasons.


Even though for personal reasons, my company has stated that they will not "endorse" travel to countries labeled by the State Department as "Do not Travel" or "Reconsider Travel".
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:59 am

Dieuwer wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

I can't speak for Dieuwer but this might be for business travel only.

My company has stopped all business travel to and suggests against personal travel to.

- China
- Singapore
- Italy
- Iran
- South Korea
- Japan


Discard my last post, Dieuwer did say personal reasons.


Even though for personal reasons, my company has stated that they will not "endorse" travel to countries labeled by the State Department as "Do not Travel" or "Reconsider Travel".


Japan surprises me. Since the IOC threatened them last week they've really gotten their act together and although cases have gone up its been like 25-30 a day tops. Abe has done a good job since the Olympic cancellation threat came down
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:07 am

Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
I thought Norway has one of the best healthcare systems in the world, this guy was a doctor, imagine someone who isn't.

One thing this crisis is exposing is the myths that all healthcare systems except the US are better. Turns out no system is perfect.


You and casinterest seem to be under the impression that there is a cheap, readily available and reliable test for this, but that's not the case (yet).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/heal ... g-cdc.html


True, too expensive for 'the model of healthcare of the world' Norway. Thankfully for us here in the states despite all its imperfections and being the most expensive health care systems in the world, we are the most prepared country on earth for a pandemic. https://www.ghsindex.org/

On another subject, when will China come clean and say where this virus came from, the 'bat' theory was debunked, so its still all a mystery how this came about.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3012
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:56 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

Discard my last post, Dieuwer did say personal reasons.


Even though for personal reasons, my company has stated that they will not "endorse" travel to countries labeled by the State Department as "Do not Travel" or "Reconsider Travel".


Japan surprises me. Since the IOC threatened them last week they've really gotten their act together and although cases have gone up its been like 25-30 a day tops. Abe has done a good job since the Olympic cancellation threat came down


With all do respect, I don't think it really matters. This thing has gone beyond any control methods at this point.
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:58 am

trpmb6 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:

Even though for personal reasons, my company has stated that they will not "endorse" travel to countries labeled by the State Department as "Do not Travel" or "Reconsider Travel".


Japan surprises me. Since the IOC threatened them last week they've really gotten their act together and although cases have gone up its been like 25-30 a day tops. Abe has done a good job since the Olympic cancellation threat came down


With all do respect, I don't think it really matters. This thing has gone beyond any control methods at this point.


The travel restrictions still seem overdone. Look at the populations of countries like South Korea/Japan/Italy/Iran/US. They are massive compared to the number of cases. At the rate Italy is growing we'd have a vaccine before even 30% of their population was infected.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2557
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:30 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
I thought Norway has one of the best healthcare systems in the world, this guy was a doctor, imagine someone who isn't.

One thing this crisis is exposing is the myths that all healthcare systems except the US are better. Turns out no system is perfect.


You and casinterest seem to be under the impression that there is a cheap, readily available and reliable test for this, but that's not the case (yet).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/heal ... g-cdc.html


True, too expensive for 'the model of healthcare of the world' Norway. Thankfully for us here in the states despite all its imperfections and being the most expensive health care systems in the world, we are the most prepared country on earth for a pandemic. https://www.ghsindex.org/

On another subject, when will China come clean and say where this virus came from, the 'bat' theory was debunked, so its still all a mystery how this came about.


Healthcare in Norway is cheap. But the standard of care is 10 years behind what is available in the US. And then I mean medical equipment like the latest types of MRI machines, prescription drugs and the time you have to wait for treatment. If you go to a private clinic to pay out of pocket, you will get faster medical help. But the Government has restricted the type of care and methods of treatment you receive in the private sector to what the public health care system can provide. So you have people literally dying of illnesses that could have been cured, all in the name of socialism - because everybody is supposed to be equal. So now you have patients selling their house and going to Eastern Europe or to the US to pay for medical help they absolutely need - that isn't available in Norway, because some politician's ideology decided it shouldn't be.

Sorry for the rant. I've been struggling with health issues the last 4 years, this has been my experience. :cry:
Last edited by JetBuddy on Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 3012
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:30 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:

Japan surprises me. Since the IOC threatened them last week they've really gotten their act together and although cases have gone up its been like 25-30 a day tops. Abe has done a good job since the Olympic cancellation threat came down


With all do respect, I don't think it really matters. This thing has gone beyond any control methods at this point.


The travel restrictions still seem overdone. Look at the populations of countries like South Korea/Japan/Italy/Iran/US. They are massive compared to the number of cases. At the rate Italy is growing we'd have a vaccine before even 30% of their population was infected.


As new data continues to emerge it seems more and more obvious that we are underestimating the asymptomatic cases. This is totally different than other flu like viruses in that children seem to show no symptoms at all. My kids could very well have the virus and I may never know until their grandparents start to get sick.
 
777
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:21 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:57 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
I thought Norway has one of the best healthcare systems in the world, this guy was a doctor, imagine someone who isn't.

One thing this crisis is exposing is the myths that all healthcare systems except the US are better. Turns out no system is perfect.


You and casinterest seem to be under the impression that there is a cheap, readily available and reliable test for this, but that's not the case (yet).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/heal ... g-cdc.html


True, too expensive for 'the model of healthcare of the world' Norway. Thankfully for us here in the states despite all its imperfections and being the most expensive health care systems in the world, we are the most prepared country on earth for a pandemic. https://www.ghsindex.org/

On another subject, when will China come clean and say where this virus came from, the 'bat' theory was debunked, so its still all a mystery how this came about.

Are you really sure?

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/02/coronav ... eople.html

Let’s re-discuss this in 2-3 weeks from now.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 3991
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:25 am

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03 ... -countries

This is reporting that the rather draconian measures taken by China did in fact work. Two caveats, the first that these methods would not be acceptable in democracies, and second, that as China puts people back to work the virus could start spreading once again.

My observation: I think that if people here in the US are requested to practice some certain levels of social distancing they would do it. It would not require coercive enforcement. There will be an experiment going on here in Washington State. Government officials will be announcing containment steps and I suspect people will follow those guidelines.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:12 am

JetBuddy wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aesma wrote:

You and casinterest seem to be under the impression that there is a cheap, readily available and reliable test for this, but that's not the case (yet).

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/heal ... g-cdc.html


True, too expensive for 'the model of healthcare of the world' Norway. Thankfully for us here in the states despite all its imperfections and being the most expensive health care systems in the world, we are the most prepared country on earth for a pandemic. https://www.ghsindex.org/

On another subject, when will China come clean and say where this virus came from, the 'bat' theory was debunked, so its still all a mystery how this came about.


Healthcare in Norway is cheap. But the standard of care is 10 years behind what is available in the US. And then I mean medical equipment like the latest types of MRI machines, prescription drugs and the time you have to wait for treatment. If you go to a private clinic to pay out of pocket, you will get faster medical help. But the Government has restricted the type of care and methods of treatment you receive in the private sector to what the public health care system can provide. So you have people literally dying of illnesses that could have been cured, all in the name of socialism - because everybody is supposed to be equal. So now you have patients selling their house and going to Eastern Europe or to the US to pay for medical help they absolutely need - that isn't available in Norway, because some politician's ideology decided it shouldn't be.

Sorry for the rant. I've been struggling with health issues the last 4 years, this has been my experience. :cry:


You have no idea how hard getting an MRI done is in the US... Insurance will do everything in its power to not cover it and the wait is insane. I think it's a global problem, too many people, not enough infrastructure. Because humanity in general doesn't want to cough up the money in the long run even though people individually will give up everything when they're already sick.

Humans have the gift of being able to plan for the future, but they rarely utilize that ability. People have a bad habit of only planning for the moment.
情報
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:27 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
Well, time for an ArchGuy1 style post :).

Jumbo Floating Restaurant, an iconic seafood restaurant in Hong Kong, is "closing until further notice" with all employees there being laid off. The owner cited nCoV and the resulting reduced demand (as people are definitely dining out a lot less, also, tourist numbers basically drop to nothing in HK) as the last straw.

https://www.scmp.com/business/companies ... -queen-tom

The local reaction is mixed - most locals (including me) have not been to the restaurant as it's basically a tourist trap nowaday with average food but tourist price, and the restaurant itself had been struggling for awhile. On the other hand, it does represent an era of Hong Kong where extravagance is everywhere, endless growths, and anyone can struck rich easily with golds to be mined anywhere you go.
=======================================================
Meanwhile, back in US...
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coro ... 98f445de9c

Death toll up to 6 in US, all in Washington State.

One has to wonder how many deaths in US was due to nCoV but were not counted that way as they didn't run any tests.


Probably a few but not too many. This surge in deaths is right on queue. Factor in incubation periods and the 2 weeks of mild illness before becoming severe there's probably only been a couple of generations of spread in between. If it was from that one person who was quickly isolated, he might have only infected one person, that infected 2-3 people, and one of those people then visited that nursing home which quickly becomes a super-spreading event.

However, there's likely undetected outbreaks elsewhere that may have produced "viral pneumonia" deaths that have gone undetected. Especially in states with no confirmed cases, their public health agencies won't be as alert.
情報
 
Cerecl
Posts: 613
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:34 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
On another subject, when will China come clean and say where this virus came from, the 'bat' theory was debunked, so its still all a mystery how this came about.


How can they "come clean" when they've got no idea? Pangolin was suggested as the most likely but it is not proven.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00548-w

We actually don't know for sure the natural reservoir for Ebola virus (probably bats) even after it has been known to human for almost half a century. Why do you think the source of COVID-19 can be found out in a few months?
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Waterbomber2
Posts: 1179
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:11 am

Numbers rising steadily in Italy and South Korea.
Japan is still not reporting the full scale or anything close to that. (informed opinion)
France and the USA are the next factors to watch as cases are rising fast, a new cluster formed in villages in Brittany, France; and in Washington State, US.
U.S. media don't seem very interested in reporting on their domestic cases, what's going on?
Singapore is a question mark. No cases appearing or not being reported?

CNN reported on South Korea's drive through testing system, but the reporter wore his respirator/mask upside down, which is pointless... The report was interesting though.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/02/asia ... index.html
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2114
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:47 am

A local report from Washington State, USA. Our Gov Inslee declared a state of emergency on Saturday, well all Costco's on Sunday were mobbed like it was Black Friday. Some stores had special cashier lines just for toilet paper. For those not familiar with Costco, they usually carry things in bulk sizes - its a 30 roll bale.

I went to Costco at 1 PM today, usually close to a ghost town but the lot was full. Carts going by with 6, 7 bales, everyone has at least one, and paper towels, napkins?!, and bales of Kleenex. When the store opened at 9, they had just unloaded an entire semi-trailer of toilet paper and it was gone. There was some Charmin across the aisle but the pile was getting smaller by the minute. What does one do with 180 rolls of toilet paper for a family of 4. We get winter storms here with the pre-panic hoarding, similar this time but calm, like being contestants in a reality TV show.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 11753
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:51 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
A local report from Washington State, USA. Our Gov Inslee declared a state of emergency on Saturday, well all Costco's on Sunday were mobbed like it was Black Friday. Some stores had special cashier lines just for toilet paper. For those not familiar with Costco, they usually carry things in bulk sizes - its a 30 roll bale.

I went to Costco at 1 PM today, usually close to a ghost town but the lot was full. Carts going by with 6, 7 bales, everyone has at least one, and paper towels, napkins?!, and bales of Kleenex. When the store opened at 9, they had just unloaded an entire semi-trailer of toilet paper and it was gone. There was some Charmin across the aisle but the pile was getting smaller by the minute. What does one do with 180 rolls of toilet paper for a family of 4. We get winter storms here with the pre-panic hoarding, similar this time but calm, like being contestants in a reality TV show.


The sign of a society where critical thinking has gone completely out the window and become the province of the few.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2024
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:02 am

9 new cases in Sweden has been confirmed today. All of which had tested themselves after travels to Italy. Total number of cases in Sweden are now 24.

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/nya- ... -i-sverige
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1179
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:06 pm

Edit: Now breaking news, several Belgian schools hit by Coronavirus, in the Flemish region.

http://www.hln.be

Several students in a school in Belgium have been isolated after a student tested positive.

https://m.hln.be/in-de-buurt/tienen/lee ... ~a09c04c3/

Just this Sunday, minister of health De Block assured that schools are safe and that students are expected to attend school to avoid being marked as unjustified absence.

Belgium is bracing for mounting numbers after a dozen have already returned infected from skiing trips in Northern Italy, bringing the tally fro zero to twelve.

The minister is being seen smiling inapropriately during press conferences, it is obvious thay they are not taking this seriously and are more worried about a panic than the virus itself.
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8233
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:08 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
A local report from Washington State, USA.


Local Costco is in a similar situation. Add Rice and water to the list.

People don't know what will be in short supply if any so they are stocking whatever they could. It is like the whole town decided to buy a year's supply of toilet paper one day.
All posts are just opinions.

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