Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2371
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:40 am

FCAFLYBOY wrote:

Sorry but what utter nonsense you're spouting. the USA is still, and has continued to allow many flights from China, Japan, Korea etc to land multiple times per day since the outbreak became global news. How many from the Diamond Princess went un-noticed for example? Remember the repatriation flight where the US government KNEW there were people on-board that has tested positive, but flew anyway?

Get your facts straight. The EU is not responsible for the global outbreak, let's all stop blaming each other. Chinese tourists have largely been accountable for this contagion spreading to Europe and across the world.


Right after you say “let’s all stop blaming each other”, you blame “Chinese tourists”. Interesting approach.

Doesn’t seem to jive with reality either. Chinese tourists are all over Europe, yet the initial outbreak took part in only one part of Italy and the vast majority of cases in Europe are linked to European nationals returning from Italy and spreading it in their countries. Easy to forget that just two weeks ago the Italian health and foreign ministers were complaining about “infodemics” and bad press coverage affecting tourism.

If we’re being objective about this, China was responsible as the origin, but Italy’s handling of it has allowed it to spread much, much faster and wider than it should have. Really get the sense that a lot of folk in the EU weren’t taking this seriously till they were forced to.
 
User avatar
CarbonFibre
Posts: 774
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:02 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:44 am

Why was there a "coronavirus simulation" three months before the outbreak?

https://themindunleashed.com/2020/01/sc ... break.html
 
KFTG
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:15 pm

seahawk wrote:
Good to see Trump in full control of the situation.

Typical from you. Tell me, WHY CAN I FLY TO SOUTH KOREA *RIGHT NOW* but soon I can't fly to Belgium? What Trump said in the teleprompter was INCORRECT. I SWEAR TO GOD, he could defecate live on national TV and you people would congratulate him for wiping.
Pathetic!
 
KFTG
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:17 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
FCAFLYBOY wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Great action by President Trump, closing its doors to Europe was long overdue. Europe decided not to place travel bans when the US did, and look where they are. These bans help us buy time.


Sorry but what utter nonsense you're spouting. the USA is still, and has continued to allow many flights from China, Japan, Korea etc to land multiple times per day since the outbreak became global news. How many from the Diamond Princess went un-noticed for example? Remember the repatriation flight where the US government KNEW there were people on-board that has tested positive, but flew anyway?

Get your facts straight. The EU is not responsible for the global outbreak, let's all stop blaming each other. Chinese tourists have largely been accountable for this contagion spreading to Europe and across the world.



There are travel restrictions to all of those places already

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/ ... eb-29.html

The EU is responsible, the vast number of cases imported to the US are from Europe

WRONG.
Do you even read the links you post before hand?
There are flights inbound from Korea *right now*.
 
art
Posts: 4184
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:17 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
If we’re being objective about this, China was responsible as the origin...


Not just as the origin. Party officials prevented early action to contain this to a small number of victims, in which case COVID-19 would (I presume) have been wiped out when those infected had recovered. I don;t know what action was taken against SARS but that was wiped out, wasn't it? Such a shame that the political system in China meant that party officials chose not to respond early to this new virus.

Who is responsible for this - soon to be worldwide - curse? I think the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the regime ruling China. The communist party stopped it being stopped.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:23 pm

KFTG wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
FCAFLYBOY wrote:

Sorry but what utter nonsense you're spouting. the USA is still, and has continued to allow many flights from China, Japan, Korea etc to land multiple times per day since the outbreak became global news. How many from the Diamond Princess went un-noticed for example? Remember the repatriation flight where the US government KNEW there were people on-board that has tested positive, but flew anyway?

Get your facts straight. The EU is not responsible for the global outbreak, let's all stop blaming each other. Chinese tourists have largely been accountable for this contagion spreading to Europe and across the world.



There are travel restrictions to all of those places already

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/ ... eb-29.html

The EU is responsible, the vast number of cases imported to the US are from Europe

WRONG.
Do you even read the links you post before hand?
There are flights inbound from Korea *right now*.


Probably because they are screening and are flights coming in from just one airport? The contrary from the dozens of EU airports having multiple flights to multiple cities in the US. Too much to screen and overwhelms the capacity for screening in the US.

The "president has also directed the State Department to work with our allies in Italy and in South Korea to coordinate a screening, a medical screening, in their countries of any individuals that are coming in to the United States of America," Pence said.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2 ... 914822002/
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:26 pm

art wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
If we’re being objective about this, China was responsible as the origin...


Not just as the origin. Party officials prevented early action to contain this to a small number of victims, in which case COVID-19 would (I presume) have been wiped out when those infected had recovered. I don;t know what action was taken against SARS but that was wiped out, wasn't it? Such a shame that the political system in China meant that party officials chose not to respond early to this new virus.

Who is responsible for this - soon to be worldwide - curse? I think the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the regime ruling China. The communist party stopped it being stopped.


I hope this situation serves as a lesson that China's role in the world needs to be diminished unless democratic change can hold into accountable their 'leaders'.

I know its not a matter of "if" but rather "when" would China's communist regime will fall. Chernobyl was the start for the Soviet Union.
 
KFTG
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:26 pm

Give me break. The President was calling this a hoax literally DAYS ago. Trump apologist.
 
drew777
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:26 pm

KFTG wrote:
Tell me, WHY CAN I FLY TO SOUTH KOREA *RIGHT NOW* but soon I can't fly to Belgium?


Because South Korea has done an excellent job at testing and containing the outbreak. They also have a very low death rate leading me to believe they have the less deadly strain of Covid-19.

I doubt stopping travel to Europe will help much because the virus is probably already widespread here. It might slow it down though.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3306
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:28 pm

CarbonFibre wrote:
Why was there a "coronavirus simulation" three months before the outbreak?

https://themindunleashed.com/2020/01/sc ... break.html

Because there are professionals, whos job is prepare for the worst.
Pandemic, nuclear war, major earthquakes and what not. Go to your local fire department and ask them about worst-case scenario plans.
Those professionals do have to check their models, communicate, share opinions - and drills are a pretty efficient way of doing that.
This just happened to be closer to reality that anyone wanted. I guess the general public didn't realize the threat (me included, last year I literally asked a few professionals "was SARS actually that bad?"), but we had a few close calls with SARS and MERS. So at least some people took notice....
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:30 pm

drew777 wrote:
KFTG wrote:

I doubt stopping travel to Europe will help much because the virus is probably already widespread here. It might slow it down though.



:checkmark: :checkmark: Yep, it will buy us time. The same way it bought us time the restrictions to China, and Europe did not do and look at them. As for widespread, the geographical size of the US and the dispersed population is much different to the other parts of the world that are having serious situations with the outbreak. But as you mention, it will slow it down a bit.
 
marcelh
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:32 pm

M564038 wrote:
We are closing schools, business are telling people to work from home, they are considering closing airports etc. We are in full lock down any day/hour now.

It is just what it takes to put the brakes on this thing, as has been shown in china.
And we are even a few days late doing this.

Hospitals can reduce lethality drastically as best practices improve and resources aren’t stretched. This is why we do these things.
Do we want 0,01% dead or do we want 3%?

The actions every country takes within the next few days, counted from last week in most of europe, and a few days ago in the US will decide this.

This is where people like Trump really are starting to cost lifes.


Were is "we"?
 
KFTG
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:35 pm

Not to worry. Jared Kushner is on the case!
https://twitter.com/santucci/status/123 ... 80866?s=21
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16002
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:39 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


There are travel restrictions to all of those places already

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/ ... eb-29.html

The EU is responsible, the vast number of cases imported to the US are from Europe

WRONG.
Do you even read the links you post before hand?
There are flights inbound from Korea *right now*.


Probably because they are screening and are flights coming in from just one airport? The contrary from the dozens of EU airports having multiple flights to multiple cities in the US. Too much to screen and overwhelms the capacity for screening in the US.

The "president has also directed the State Department to work with our allies in Italy and in South Korea to coordinate a screening, a medical screening, in their countries of any individuals that are coming in to the United States of America," Pence said.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2 ... 914822002/


Do you seriously claim to work in the aviation industry? How can you then claim that connections to the US from ROK or Japan are coming from 'just one airport'? Are you aware that KE has a massive network from all over the world feeding into its ICN hub? They fly to literally every corner of the globe. From KIX/NGO/NRT/HND in Japan there are flights to all over North America and beyond.

And you also once again display poor scientific knowledge, claiming that 'because they are screening' is sufficient - screening is not completely effective with a long incubation period. At most Asian airports, they are doing temperature screenings and passport checks only - this is not significantly different from what is being done in Korea or Japan.

Figures that the straight-faced apologism parade continues after POTUS made such a shitshow of a simple Oval Office address that people from both sides of the aisle are calling for resignation. The best case scenario you can say now is that they have closed the barn door after the horses already got out - that's exactly the situation we have. Community spread cases within the US are going to transition from arithmetic to logarithmic scale in quite short order. Don't take my word for it - you can watch the testimony from Dr. Redfield and Dr. Fauci yesterday.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
melpax
Posts: 2178
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:45 pm

McLaren has pulled out of the F1 opening round in Melbourne after one of their team members has tested positive. Medical experts have been vocal here today about the need to cancel the race, with the massive crowds it attracts. Would not be suprised if the race is called off, or at best, run with no spectators in attendance. A pity as GP week is a fantastic part of living in Melbourne.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/motorsp ... 549l2.html
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
WRONG.
Do you even read the links you post before hand?
There are flights inbound from Korea *right now*.


Probably because they are screening and are flights coming in from just one airport? The contrary from the dozens of EU airports having multiple flights to multiple cities in the US. Too much to screen and overwhelms the capacity for screening in the US.

The "president has also directed the State Department to work with our allies in Italy and in South Korea to coordinate a screening, a medical screening, in their countries of any individuals that are coming in to the United States of America," Pence said.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2 ... 914822002/


Do you seriously claim to work in the aviation industry? How can you then claim that connections to the US from ROK or Japan are coming from 'just one airport'? Are you aware that KE has a massive network from all over the world feeding into its ICN hub? They fly to literally every corner of the globe. From KIX/NGO/NRT/HND in Japan there are flights to all over North America and beyond.

And you also once again display poor scientific knowledge, claiming that 'because they are screening' is sufficient - screening is not completely effective with a long incubation period. At most Asian airports, they are doing temperature screenings and passport checks only - this is not significantly different from what is being done in Korea or Japan.

Figures that the straight-faced apologism parade continues after POTUS made such a shitshow of a simple Oval Office address that people from both sides of the aisle are calling for resignation. The best case scenario you can say now is that they have closed the barn door after the horses already got out - that's exactly the situation we have. Community spread cases within the US are going to transition from arithmetic to logarithmic scale in quite short order. Don't take my word for it - you can watch the testimony from Dr. Redfield and Dr. Fauci yesterday.


He mentioned South Korea, they only have one airport with flights to the US. And yes screening is not sufficient, I think they should just close the borders to the US and just let US citizens and residents in while the country gets in order.

As for resignation, you guys have been calling for resignation, removal, impeachment for 3 years, now you are using this as another excuse.

The travel ban will just help slow the situation a bit, most of the cases here in Florida are from people who traveled outside of the country, specifically Europe. So I applaud this.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 10382
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:49 pm

KFTG wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Good to see Trump in full control of the situation.

Typical from you. Tell me, WHY CAN I FLY TO SOUTH KOREA *RIGHT NOW* but soon I can't fly to Belgium? What Trump said in the teleprompter was INCORRECT. I SWEAR TO GOD, he could defecate live on national TV and you people would congratulate him for wiping.
Pathetic!


Simply because Trump knows much more about the Virus than any other political leader. Even the scientists ask him for advice. There is no American corona outbreak, all cases have been imported into the USA and while South Korea is taking active measures to contain the virus Europe is totally spiralling out of control and as they have no border controls, it will not be contained to individual countries.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2381
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:54 pm

aloges wrote:
DL717 wrote:
That little booklet they call a passport works pretty well for determining where you’ve been and if you should be allowed to head to the US.

Nice of you to clarify that you don’t travel internationally, but still have big opinions on it.

A passport is useless for this purpose. Looking at mine, a border guard would be able to determine when I entered several countries, but not when I left them. If you knew the first thing about international travel, you would know that lots of countries (including, for decades, the US) do not apply departure stamps.

Then, there is passport-free travel. I could go to dozens of countries and not need to bring more than my ID card.

Nowadays, even if you do have to bring your passport, you often do not receive a stamp during immigration. Automated passport control has made them a thing of the past for many travellers and especially avid frequent travellers to the US who use Global Entry; i.e. potential super spreaders.

Frankly, my Apple wallet holds an infinitely better air travel history than my passports.


LOL. Says the guy who’s apparently never had his passport scanned.
 
art
Posts: 4184
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:46 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:56 pm

If people over 60 were 0.1% of the world population, it might be possible to treat them adequately if the nasty version of the virus caused them severe problems. Unfortunately people over 60 are not 0.1% of the world population. As a consequence I do not see how the vulnerable who developed pneumonia could be treated if the virus became widespread (along the lines of a seasonal flu epidemic).

This is a radical idea, but in the absence of a vaccine what about trying to infect everyone with the milder strain? No longer any need for quarantine, travel and trade dislocation etc. Far less economic damage. Far less demand on acute illness treatment resources. Very much the lesser of two evils IMO.

My proposition would be contingent on it first being established that people infected with the milder version would not be able to contract another version of the virus at the same time.
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:03 pm

DL717 wrote:
LOL. Says the guy who’s apparently never had his passport scanned.

Don’t move the goalposts. You said that a passport shows where people have been, which it doesn’t necessarily.

As for having it scanned, that will happen again in about 15 minutes and all it does is determine whether or not I’m eligible for my upcoming trip. It doesn’t show anyone where I’ve been.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16002
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:07 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Probably because they are screening and are flights coming in from just one airport? The contrary from the dozens of EU airports having multiple flights to multiple cities in the US. Too much to screen and overwhelms the capacity for screening in the US.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2 ... 914822002/


Do you seriously claim to work in the aviation industry? How can you then claim that connections to the US from ROK or Japan are coming from 'just one airport'? Are you aware that KE has a massive network from all over the world feeding into its ICN hub? They fly to literally every corner of the globe. From KIX/NGO/NRT/HND in Japan there are flights to all over North America and beyond.

And you also once again display poor scientific knowledge, claiming that 'because they are screening' is sufficient - screening is not completely effective with a long incubation period. At most Asian airports, they are doing temperature screenings and passport checks only - this is not significantly different from what is being done in Korea or Japan.

Figures that the straight-faced apologism parade continues after POTUS made such a shitshow of a simple Oval Office address that people from both sides of the aisle are calling for resignation. The best case scenario you can say now is that they have closed the barn door after the horses already got out - that's exactly the situation we have. Community spread cases within the US are going to transition from arithmetic to logarithmic scale in quite short order. Don't take my word for it - you can watch the testimony from Dr. Redfield and Dr. Fauci yesterday.


He mentioned South Korea, they only have one airport with flights to the US. And yes screening is not sufficient, I think they should just close the borders to the US and just let US citizens and residents in while the country gets in order.

As for resignation, you guys have been calling for resignation, removal, impeachment for 3 years, now you are using this as another excuse.

The travel ban will just help slow the situation a bit, most of the cases here in Florida are from people who traveled outside of the country, specifically Europe. So I applaud this.


Quote the scientific basis for your statement.

Here’s the statement from an ex-Homeland Security director:

https://twitter.com/tombossert/status/1 ... 75008?s=21

In two weeks, we will regret wasting time and energy on travel restrictions and wish we focused more on hospital preparation and large scale community mitigation.

Ya’ll still have no understanding of what the medical professionals and epidemiologists are talking about.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3306
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:08 pm

aloges wrote:
DL717 wrote:
LOL. Says the guy who’s apparently never had his passport scanned.

Don’t move the goalposts. You said that a passport shows where people have been, which it doesn’t necessarily.

As for having it scanned, that will happen again in about 15 minutes and all it does is determine whether or not I’m eligible for my upcoming trip. It doesn’t show anyone where I’ve been.

Just as a thought... CBP has access to credit card transaction data - so they may know more than you think.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:10 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Do you seriously claim to work in the aviation industry? How can you then claim that connections to the US from ROK or Japan are coming from 'just one airport'? Are you aware that KE has a massive network from all over the world feeding into its ICN hub? They fly to literally every corner of the globe. From KIX/NGO/NRT/HND in Japan there are flights to all over North America and beyond.

And you also once again display poor scientific knowledge, claiming that 'because they are screening' is sufficient - screening is not completely effective with a long incubation period. At most Asian airports, they are doing temperature screenings and passport checks only - this is not significantly different from what is being done in Korea or Japan.

Figures that the straight-faced apologism parade continues after POTUS made such a shitshow of a simple Oval Office address that people from both sides of the aisle are calling for resignation. The best case scenario you can say now is that they have closed the barn door after the horses already got out - that's exactly the situation we have. Community spread cases within the US are going to transition from arithmetic to logarithmic scale in quite short order. Don't take my word for it - you can watch the testimony from Dr. Redfield and Dr. Fauci yesterday.


He mentioned South Korea, they only have one airport with flights to the US. And yes screening is not sufficient, I think they should just close the borders to the US and just let US citizens and residents in while the country gets in order.

As for resignation, you guys have been calling for resignation, removal, impeachment for 3 years, now you are using this as another excuse.

The travel ban will just help slow the situation a bit, most of the cases here in Florida are from people who traveled outside of the country, specifically Europe. So I applaud this.


Quote the scientific basis for your statement.

Here’s the statement from an ex-Homeland Security director:

https://twitter.com/tombossert/status/1 ... 75008?s=21

In two weeks, we will regret wasting time and energy on travel restrictions and wish we focused more on hospital preparation and large scale community mitigation.

Ya’ll still have no understanding of what the medical professionals and epidemiologists are talking about.


This is the same type backlash he is getting for the same travel restrictions he put for China weeks ago. The result is pretty clear, it works, Europe did not do the same and look at them. So there is plenty of evidence this helps slow down the process.

I seriously doubt Trump liked doing this, since this will further tank the markets, but this is not about markets anymore. We need to slow down this a bit.

And as for my statement, I am glued to my local news, and every time they report a new case they mention the origin.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3306
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:12 pm

art wrote:
If people over 60 were 0.1% of the world population, it might be possible to treat them adequately if the nasty version of the virus caused them severe problems. Unfortunately people over 60 are not 0.1% of the world population. As a consequence I do not see how the vulnerable who developed pneumonia could be treated if the virus became widespread (along the lines of a seasonal flu epidemic).

This is a radical idea, but in the absence of a vaccine what about trying to infect everyone with the milder strain? No longer any need for quarantine, travel and trade dislocation etc. Far less economic damage. Far less demand on acute illness treatment resources. Very much the lesser of two evils IMO.

My proposition would be contingent on it first being established that people infected with the milder version would not be able to contract another version of the virus at the same time.

IF you can get a milder strain of virus to begin with. and IF that milder strain has an actual serious condition and death rate such that infecting everyone on purpose makes more sense than allowing things to go naturally.
Actually such mild strains are one of the way to create vaccine - so called "live vaccines", e.g. MMR which everyone should have. but creating one may be much easier to say than to do.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2381
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:22 pm

aloges wrote:
DL717 wrote:
LOL. Says the guy who’s apparently never had his passport scanned.

Don’t move the goalposts. You said that a passport shows where people have been, which it doesn’t necessarily.

As for having it scanned, that will happen again in about 15 minutes and all it does is determine whether or not I’m eligible for my upcoming trip. It doesn’t show anyone where I’ve been.


I didn’t move any goalpost world traveler.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2381
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:25 pm

kalvado wrote:
aloges wrote:
DL717 wrote:
LOL. Says the guy who’s apparently never had his passport scanned.

Don’t move the goalposts. You said that a passport shows where people have been, which it doesn’t necessarily.

As for having it scanned, that will happen again in about 15 minutes and all it does is determine whether or not I’m eligible for my upcoming trip. It doesn’t show anyone where I’ve been.

Just as a thought... CBP has access to credit card transaction data - so they may know more than you think.


They know a lot more than he thinks. But hey, his passport is about to get scanned, again. One more trace of him he’s apparently unaware of from using his passport so frequently. He did couch his answer with the whole “doesn’t necessarily” component of his response.
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:35 pm

kalvado wrote:
Just as a thought... CBP has access to credit card transaction data - so they may know more than you think.

I’m sure that they know a lot, but I’m just as certain that lots of people often don’t use credit cards for travel. I’m one of them.

And wasn’t the original point about passports anyway? Not credit card databases?
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13937
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:35 pm

JetBuddy wrote:
casinterest wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:

He's not lying about the European response. The EU should have closed all external borders weeks ago. It failed to do so, despite plenty of warnings. Now we see the consequences. Border controls are popping up inside Europe again, but it's too late. The situation is already out of control.


We already had it in the US from China. Closing down to Europe could have happened weeks ago if this wasn't just a nothing as Trump claimed.


The situation in Europe is getting exponentially worse by the minute, and is about the same scale that China was when the travel ban to China was implemented.


You do not understand math very well do you?
Viruses spread at exponential rates.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2381
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:37 pm

aloges wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Just as a thought... CBP has access to credit card transaction data - so they may know more than you think.

I’m sure that they know a lot, but I’m just as certain that lots of people often don’t use credit cards for travel. I’m one of them.

And wasn’t the original point about passports anyway? Not credit card databases?


Yes, it was. And if you don’t think they track you, you don’t know as much as you think you know about that little blue book you’re always using. Or maybe one of the alternate colors which means they know even more.
Last edited by DL717 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:38 pm

DL717 wrote:
But hey, his passport is about to get scanned, again.

And it was accepted as usual.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2381
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:41 pm

aloges wrote:
DL717 wrote:
But hey, his passport is about to get scanned, again.

And it was accepted as usual.


Good for you. You’re allowed to come home. Off course, nothing goes into effect until Midnight Friday. Even then if you’re holding a US passport you’re good to go. Have a nice trip world traveler who thinks no one else has a passport they use regularly. :sarcastic:
 
KFTG
Posts: 948
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:43 pm

seahawk wrote:
KFTG wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Good to see Trump in full control of the situation.

Typical from you. Tell me, WHY CAN I FLY TO SOUTH KOREA *RIGHT NOW* but soon I can't fly to Belgium? What Trump said in the teleprompter was INCORRECT. I SWEAR TO GOD, he could defecate live on national TV and you people would congratulate him for wiping.
Pathetic!


Simply because Trump knows much more about the Virus than any other political leader. Even the scientists ask him for advice. There is no American corona outbreak, all cases have been imported into the USA and while South Korea is taking active measures to contain the virus Europe is totally spiralling out of control and as they have no border controls, it will not be contained to individual countries.

Did you just type what I read?
 
bennett123
Posts: 10869
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:44 pm

AirWorthy99

Apart from Europe, which countries face US travel bans?.
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:49 pm

DL717 wrote:
Yes, it was. And if you don’t think they track you, you don’t know as much as you think you know about that little blue book you’re always using. Or maybe one of the alternate colors which means they know even more.

Thanks, that proves my earlier point about your big opinions based on very little knowledge. You don’t even care where I live or what citizenship I hold, but you’re certain that the US government can trace my entire travel history and that of everybody else.

I’m sure they know a lot, but almost none of that is going to be in my passport... which is the point I was making.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:52 pm

bennett123 wrote:
AirWorthy99

Apart from Europe, which countries face US travel bans?.


Mainland China, Iran. Italy was on the ban but now its entire EU. Travel restrictions to Japan, South Korea.
 
aloges
Posts: 14807
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:53 pm

DL717 wrote:
aloges wrote:
DL717 wrote:
But hey, his passport is about to get scanned, again.

And it was accepted as usual.


Good for you. You’re allowed to come home. Off course, nothing goes into effect until Midnight Friday. Even then if you’re holding a US passport you’re good to go. Have a nice trip world traveler who thinks no one else has a passport they use regularly. :sarcastic:

I’m going nowhere near home, you could have asked instead of making yet more wild assumptions. But thanks for the good wishes, always appreciated in my line of work (courier).

As for your own passport, you can find out how much of your travel history it reveals by counting the stamps in it. You can easily be a world traveller without filling the pages quickly - again, that’s my point.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10869
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:54 pm

Airworthy99

Read the link that you posted;

China and Iran: U.S. travelers should avoid all nonessential travel to these destinations. Entry of foreign nationals from these destinations has been suspended.

So not a ban.

South Korea and Italy: CDC recommends that travelers avoid all nonessential travel.

So not a ban.

Japan: CDC recommends that older adults or those who have chronic medical conditions consider postponing travel.

So not a ban. Even more limited than the others.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:58 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Airworthy99

Read the link that you posted;

China and Iran: U.S. travelers should avoid all nonessential travel to these destinations. Entry of foreign nationals from these destinations has been suspended.

So not a ban.

South Korea and Italy: CDC recommends that travelers avoid all nonessential travel.

So not a ban.

Japan: CDC recommends that older adults or those who have chronic medical conditions consider postponing travel.

So not a ban. Even more limited than the others.


The link I posted was from weeks ago.

Highlighted, that's a ban, no foreign national from those nations can come into the US. How is that not a ban?

And as for the others, I specifically said they are travel restrictions. So you are deliberately misquoting me.
Last edited by AirWorthy99 on Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Etika
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:58 pm

This action might buy time if it were combined with aggressive action to identify, contain, and isolate existing outbreaks. However, with internal response being lackluster, it is not going to help one bit. In fact, the pattern of cases suggests that there might already being a lot of internal community transmission occuring. Thus, the number of cases prevented will in all likelyhood be neglible compared to domestic cases.

This action might have helped two weeks ago. Now it is too late for it to have any kind of effect and it will draw attention and resources from the actions that would be needed for the current situation. Basically, the US government response is heading down the Italian path: early failures to identify the true scope of situation means that actions are constantly implemented too late for them to have any effect anymore.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3611
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:00 pm

bennett123 wrote:
AirWorthy99

Apart from Europe, which countries face US travel bans?.


China for a starter...

The travel ban on Schengen Area is similar to the one on China anyway.

P.S. I actually don't disagree with Trump regarding the travel restriction. Remember, even within Europe itself you're seeing a country (Italy) in lockdown, talks of cities being lockdown (i.e. Madrid), and countries imposing their own entry/exit restrictions. Also, US is actually already behind a few places (i.e. Hong Kong) restricting entries from European countries (HK restriction only applied to Italy, Germany, France, and Spain IIRC).

Actually, perhaps US should imposed restrictions similar to their BFF Israel. One similar to Trump's other friend Modi works fine also.
 
kalvado
Posts: 3306
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:02 pm

DL717 wrote:
aloges wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Just as a thought... CBP has access to credit card transaction data - so they may know more than you think.

I’m sure that they know a lot, but I’m just as certain that lots of people often don’t use credit cards for travel. I’m one of them.

And wasn’t the original point about passports anyway? Not credit card databases?


Yes, it was. And if you don’t think they track you, you don’t know as much as you think you know about that little blue book you’re always using. Or maybe one of the alternate colors which means they know even more.

I would put a different moral to this story.
Quarantines and travel bans in this case are mostly for a reason. They are not totally enforced.
Compare that to locks on regular house/apartment doors. Thhose are against people acting in good faith, Locks are not extremely secure, the message is - if you have no key, you shouldn 't enter. Breaking a window or picking the lock are often easy options.
Same here. Those who really want to evade the ban will do so. You cannot evade Darwin, though.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:03 pm

Etika wrote:
This action might buy time if it were combined with aggressive action to identify, contain, and isolate existing outbreaks. However, with internal response being lackluster, it is not going to help one bit. In fact, the pattern of cases suggests that there might already being a lot of internal community transmission occuring. Thus, the number of cases prevented will in all likelyhood be neglible compared to domestic cases.

This action might have helped two weeks ago. Now it is too late for it to have any kind of effect and it will draw attention and resources from the actions that would be needed for the current situation. Basically, the US government response is heading down the Italian path: early failures to identify the true scope of situation means that actions are constantly implemented too late for them to have any effect anymore.


Can't understand how the US actions are down to the "Italian path". This virus originated in China, at the same time we were getting imported cases from China, but at a lower rate than Europe in fact. If there is info you might find that in the US there were cases popping out even before the first case in Italy.

Italy or the EU did not enforce any sort of restrictions when Trump announced theirs... The EU with its open borders got this in an instant because of Italy, not China, not the US.

There are 12K cases in Italy alone, if anything you can say that the US has done a far better job considering we have 10% of that, and our population is over 300 million.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10869
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:05 pm

But US Citizens can still go to China and then return to the USA.

Is that correct?.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14751
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:07 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
art wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
If we’re being objective about this, China was responsible as the origin...


Not just as the origin. Party officials prevented early action to contain this to a small number of victims, in which case COVID-19 would (I presume) have been wiped out when those infected had recovered. I don;t know what action was taken against SARS but that was wiped out, wasn't it? Such a shame that the political system in China meant that party officials chose not to respond early to this new virus.

Who is responsible for this - soon to be worldwide - curse? I think the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the regime ruling China. The communist party stopped it being stopped.


I hope this situation serves as a lesson that China's role in the world needs to be diminished unless democratic change can hold into accountable their 'leaders'.

I know its not a matter of "if" but rather "when" would China's communist regime will fall. Chernobyl was the start for the Soviet Union.


Can you say with a straight face that if this virus had appeared in the US instead of China we would be better off today ?
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:09 pm

bennett123 wrote:
But US Citizens can still go to China and then return to the USA.

Is that correct?.



If they enter the USA, they will be forced into supervision and possibly quarantine. You can't deny the entry of a US citizen or resident into the country. You can force this person to isolate.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16002
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:10 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Airworthy99

Read the link that you posted;

China and Iran: U.S. travelers should avoid all nonessential travel to these destinations. Entry of foreign nationals from these destinations has been suspended.

So not a ban.

South Korea and Italy: CDC recommends that travelers avoid all nonessential travel.

So not a ban.

Japan: CDC recommends that older adults or those who have chronic medical conditions consider postponing travel.

So not a ban. Even more limited than the others.


The link I posted was from weeks ago.

Highlighted, that's a ban, no foreign national from those nations can come into the US. How is that not a ban?

And as for the others, I specifically said they are travel restrictions. So you are deliberately misquoting me.


Those are not restrictions for ROK, Italy, and Japan - they are advisories. Please tell me you comprehend the difference.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:11 pm

Aesma wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
art wrote:

Not just as the origin. Party officials prevented early action to contain this to a small number of victims, in which case COVID-19 would (I presume) have been wiped out when those infected had recovered. I don;t know what action was taken against SARS but that was wiped out, wasn't it? Such a shame that the political system in China meant that party officials chose not to respond early to this new virus.

Who is responsible for this - soon to be worldwide - curse? I think the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the regime ruling China. The communist party stopped it being stopped.


I hope this situation serves as a lesson that China's role in the world needs to be diminished unless democratic change can hold into accountable their 'leaders'.

I know its not a matter of "if" but rather "when" would China's communist regime will fall. Chernobyl was the start for the Soviet Union.


Can you say with a straight face that if this virus had appeared in the US instead of China we would be better off today ?


Is that a true question? I know you have your anti-American sympathies and probably have more favorable views of China, like any other globalist out there. So no matter my answer it won't change your mind.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16002
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:12 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Etika wrote:
This action might buy time if it were combined with aggressive action to identify, contain, and isolate existing outbreaks. However, with internal response being lackluster, it is not going to help one bit. In fact, the pattern of cases suggests that there might already being a lot of internal community transmission occuring. Thus, the number of cases prevented will in all likelyhood be neglible compared to domestic cases.

This action might have helped two weeks ago. Now it is too late for it to have any kind of effect and it will draw attention and resources from the actions that would be needed for the current situation. Basically, the US government response is heading down the Italian path: early failures to identify the true scope of situation means that actions are constantly implemented too late for them to have any effect anymore.


Can't understand how the US actions are down to the "Italian path". This virus originated in China, at the same time we were getting imported cases from China, but at a lower rate than Europe in fact. If there is info you might find that in the US there were cases popping out even before the first case in Italy.

Italy or the EU did not enforce any sort of restrictions when Trump announced theirs... The EU with its open borders got this in an instant because of Italy, not China, not the US.

There are 12K cases in Italy alone, if anything you can say that the US has done a far better job considering we have 10% of that, and our population is over 300 million.


CDC and NIH testimony yesterday indicated we don't know what we have. The numbers are meaningless currently because of the backlog and slow rollout of testing. That's how science works - you don't assume - ever - and don't make projections until a wealth of data is available.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 20117
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:15 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
So I applaud this.


Did you also applaud when Trump claimed Corona was a Democrat hoax? :sarcastic:
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:16 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Etika wrote:
This action might buy time if it were combined with aggressive action to identify, contain, and isolate existing outbreaks. However, with internal response being lackluster, it is not going to help one bit. In fact, the pattern of cases suggests that there might already being a lot of internal community transmission occuring. Thus, the number of cases prevented will in all likelyhood be neglible compared to domestic cases.

This action might have helped two weeks ago. Now it is too late for it to have any kind of effect and it will draw attention and resources from the actions that would be needed for the current situation. Basically, the US government response is heading down the Italian path: early failures to identify the true scope of situation means that actions are constantly implemented too late for them to have any effect anymore.


Can't understand how the US actions are down to the "Italian path". This virus originated in China, at the same time we were getting imported cases from China, but at a lower rate than Europe in fact. If there is info you might find that in the US there were cases popping out even before the first case in Italy.

Italy or the EU did not enforce any sort of restrictions when Trump announced theirs... The EU with its open borders got this in an instant because of Italy, not China, not the US.

There are 12K cases in Italy alone, if anything you can say that the US has done a far better job considering we have 10% of that, and our population is over 300 million.


CDC and NIH testimony yesterday indicated we don't know what we have. The numbers are meaningless currently because of the backlog and slow rollout of testing. That's how science works - you don't assume - ever - and don't make projections until a wealth of data is available.


Ok, so we don't trust the numbers, so how can we trust any numbers given by any government because most or all countries also have a continuous backlog of testing. Using speculation to believe things are bad or worse, is as you say: "Unscientific".

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: leader1, ltbewr and 20 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos