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AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:16 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Like I said, the Chinese sold us the idea this was just like the ‘flu’ even the Europeans believed this. Had the Chinese allowed scientist from the US and Europe come in and study this we would have been better prepares, with or without Trump, Macron or Conte etc.


It's all WHO. They basically goes "Don't close border b/c that's discrimination". US actually closed their border to China, but Europe (along with many countries) did not.

Look at Taiwan - they knew better to trust the mainland Chinese government and took measures way early on. They only got 67 confirmed cases right now, with 40 of them being "imported" cases.

Vietnam is similar - they isolated the initial cluster, and actually didn't have a confirmed case from 2/20 to 3/7, when the "second" wave of confirmed cases hit Vietnam due to the European outbreak (A cluster of patient was from VN54, a flight from LHR to HAN). At 60 confirmed case, however, they're doing a lot better than many nearby countries.

Have to praise Singapore government also - while the number of cases there is not as rosy (almost 250 now), but they took every effort to trace the origin of cases down to make sure no large community outbreak occurred. It didn't stop the numerous clusters that pop up left and right in S'pore, but it could be much worse, especially given the population density in Singapore.

A large part of current outbreak in US stemmed from the European outbreak. There were isolated cases here and there in January and February, but nothing to worry about. All of a sudden, the "second" outbreak occurred in Europe and there goes US.

Meanwhile, Europe stay pat and just let people in...and look at what happen. Same for South Korea and Japan - they never closed their border with China and boom, SK gone way south while Japan still has consistent ~50 cases a day, many of whom are "local" transmission.


Thank you, couldnt have said this better myself. The WHO another worthless piece of junk from the crap that is the UN.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:23 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Your faith on experts and leaders is just on those in the US, how many of those across the pond with so much funding and “professional” governments also failed to prepare?

You keep telling us before all of this that the US needs to be more like Europe yet those who you tell us we should be messed this up like crazy.

Like I said, the Chinese sold us the idea this was just like the ‘flu’ even the Europeans believed this. Had the Chinese allowed scientist from the US and Europe come in and study this we would have been better prepares, with or without Trump, Macron or Conte etc.


There were very clear messages about severe quarantine, about emergency hospital being over the limit.
Human to human transmission was confirmed on January 20, before that massive epidemic wasn't seen as feasible
Some papers available:
February 7: https://journals.lww.com/cmj/Abstract/p ... 99408.aspx
February 9: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7049028/
February 14: https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/ryct.2020200033
February 15: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32061066
Bell was tolling loud and clear - but wasn't heard. What kind of additional information do you want?


This thing began as far as November. Are you another China apologist? China shaved almost 2 months off from the rest of the world to prepare.


Are you suggesting those research papers should have been completed faster? Not sure you understand scientific process...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:24 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:

There were very clear messages about severe quarantine, about emergency hospital being over the limit.
Human to human transmission was confirmed on January 20, before that massive epidemic wasn't seen as feasible
Some papers available:
February 7: https://journals.lww.com/cmj/Abstract/p ... 99408.aspx
February 9: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7049028/
February 14: https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/ryct.2020200033
February 15: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32061066
Bell was tolling loud and clear - but wasn't heard. What kind of additional information do you want?


This thing began as far as November. Are you another China apologist? China shaved almost 2 months off from the rest of the world to prepare.


Are you suggesting those research papers should have been completed faster? Not sure you understand scientific process...


Demanding perfection for those he doesn't trust. False flags galore.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:25 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:

There were very clear messages about severe quarantine, about emergency hospital being over the limit.
Human to human transmission was confirmed on January 20, before that massive epidemic wasn't seen as feasible
Some papers available:
February 7: https://journals.lww.com/cmj/Abstract/p ... 99408.aspx
February 9: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7049028/
February 14: https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/ryct.2020200033
February 15: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32061066
Bell was tolling loud and clear - but wasn't heard. What kind of additional information do you want?


This thing began as far as November. Are you another China apologist? China shaved almost 2 months off from the rest of the world to prepare.


Are you suggesting those research papers should have been completed faster? Not sure you understand scientific process...


You have some previous postings you havent replied.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
kalvado
Posts: 2854
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:28 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Your faith on experts and leaders is just on those in the US, how many of those across the pond with so much funding and “professional” governments also failed to prepare?

You keep telling us before all of this that the US needs to be more like Europe yet those who you tell us we should be messed this up like crazy.

Like I said, the Chinese sold us the idea this was just like the ‘flu’ even the Europeans believed this. Had the Chinese allowed scientist from the US and Europe come in and study this we would have been better prepares, with or without Trump, Macron or Conte etc.


There were very clear messages about severe quarantine, about emergency hospital being over the limit.
Human to human transmission was confirmed on January 20, before that massive epidemic wasn't seen as feasible
Some papers available:
February 7: https://journals.lww.com/cmj/Abstract/p ... 99408.aspx
February 9: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7049028/
February 14: https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/full/10.1148/ryct.2020200033
February 15: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32061066
Bell was tolling loud and clear - but wasn't heard. What kind of additional information do you want?


This thing began as far as November. Are you another China apologist? China shaved almost 2 months off from the rest of the world to prepare.

Yes it started in november. In early december people with cold-like symptoms started to seek medical attention (how many cold are there in December? Maybe one or two.... I mean one or two millions a day?
THing gоpt recognized as a problem by about new year. Would it happen sooner elsewhere? Probably not. See @DocLightning post in another thread
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:45 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Your faith on experts and leaders is just on those in the US, how many of those across the pond with so much funding and “professional” governments also failed to prepare?

You keep telling us before all of this that the US needs to be more like Europe yet those who you tell us we should be messed this up like crazy.

Like I said, the Chinese sold us the idea this was just like the ‘flu’ even the Europeans believed this. Had the Chinese allowed scientist from the US and Europe come in and study this we would have been better prepares, with or without Trump, Macron or Conte etc.


You are conflating things - looking to take lessons from an equitably managed healthcare system with strong outcomes is not the same as public health crisis management. You still did not respond to the main point - why is failing the potential of the US to do a great job at this excused? We have incredible experts - like Dr. Fauci, like many others at Johns Hopkins, the Cleveland Clinic, CDC etc - why did our leadership not convene a ‘Manhattan project’ style task force instead of deciding to go with political cover and his own idiotic assumptions instead?

As for China, nobody expected them to simply let everyone in - they never have. That’s a fantasy suggestion. We are fortunate they quickly shared genomic and epidemiological data - it could have easily gone another way.


Aaron, I share your thoughts, you are talking basically based on hindsight, which posts did you make 2 weeks ago sharing these concerns?

From my POV, despite the issues and blunders, we have done much much better than our European counterparts, which like I said thats the standard you and the opposition tells us we should be.


That claim is completely unscientific and not borne out by facts - the trajectory lines between the US, France, and Italy et al are not terribly dissimilar. Failed containment is failed containment, period.

Image
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:53 pm

Cerecl wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
Interesting. Ibuprofen and paracetamol are both NSAID's, so it must be a specific reaction to each that is presumably setting them apart. And cortisone is a steroid, again a different group of products.

No. Paracetamol is not an NSAID-it has anti-pyrexial but little anti-inflammatory properties. Please, there are already so much b*&$sh1t about COVID-19 out there, let's get the basic facts right.

I think people need to be very careful when they post about medical information. I found the French Health Minister's advice irresponsible. There is simply not high-quality research out there that suggests a relatively weak immune modulator like ibuprofen changes COVID-19's infective course. Even steroid's effect isn't clear-there are actually some people who advocate the use of steroid to control the acute respiratory distress syndrome associated with some COVID-19 cases. The immune system is very complex, and these kinds of message would simply bring panic to those who are using corticosteroid for other medical issues-inflammatory arthritis, organ transplant etc. Minister Véran is a neurologist-he should know there are patients who are stably maintained on steroid to treat their neurological condition. I doubt he intends these patients to abandon their medication in fear of COVID-19, but many who become aware of his tweet will. The end result is exacerbation of existing diseases without tangible benefit.



Well, they were advised to speak with their doctors.

Looking into the issue at a glance, prostaglandins have different effects on viruses depending on the virus. Something I did see is that PGE2 modulates the expression of TNF in macrophages, the increased expression of TNF-alpha in macrophages induced by hypoxia seems to be the event that triggers cytokine storm. Who knows, but you'd think the French would have an actual study in hand and not making orders based on simple observation. Other countries are discrediting what they're saying, but they might be right. We need to see their evidence.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:56 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

We already covered this earlier on in this thread.

It's shameful that our medical professionals didn't see this coming and didn't secure masks, and now resort to telling people to not protect themselves so they can protect themselves.

I don't earn as much as a doctor but I was able to allocate a budget and secure a decent stash of respirator masks FFP2/FFP3 early on because I had my eyes and ears open. I could also secure half face masks and full face masks.
Now I hear doctors complaining that they only have a small stock and then show on TV a couple of useless surgical masks lying in a medical cabinet. So doctors clearly are not well informed about the type of masks that is required for this kind of intervention, nor do they seem to have the interest to keep updated about major medical threats. Politicians and medical professionals are now falsely claiming that masks don't help and could even make infection more likely which is uter b*%%£+*, because they want to secure their supply.
I'm now considering donating some of that stash to medical professionals in hard hit area's, althoug I feel ridiculous to have to babysit doctors who earn more than I do and were complacent at best.

N95, N100, FFP2 and FFP3 respirator masks will provide very good to excellent protection from inhalation of airborne particles that could carry the virus.
On top of that, eye protection may be advisable. Your swimming goggles could do, but you also have bigger goggles.
Even with these you may still interface with the virus, but the quantity of virus will be so insignificant that your body will be able to repell it very swiftly before it can multiply so that it doesn't lead to an infection.

So if you can find respirator masks, just buy them and protect yourself and your family.
Don't buy them to leave them on the shelf "just in case", because we are already fully in the "just in case" scenario.
Don't waste your money on surgical masks, they don't cut your exposure enough to justify the discomfort of wearing them.

By the way, Belgium ordered masks from a company in Turkey and seem to have paid for them, only to be left empty handed.
The Belgian minister of Health said a few weeks ago that they were ready for Covid19....

"It appears that we have fallen victims to a scam".

https://www.hln.be/de-krant/5-miljoen-m ... ~a6977412/


You don't earn as much as a doctor but you want to post this bullshit? Do you know anything about ebolavirus protocol? Swimming goggles!!!


What's wrong with speedo swimming goggles?
They offer plenty of protection from airborne particles, they are basically watertight. They may not be airtight but that's not really necessary, we're not talking about walking on the moon here.
Plus most people will have a pair at home.


I'd add to that ear plugs.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
Airontario
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:00 pm

Canada is closing its border to non-residents. However US citizens are still allowed in.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cbsa-b ... -1.5498866
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You are conflating things - looking to take lessons from an equitably managed healthcare system with strong outcomes is not the same as public health crisis management. You still did not respond to the main point - why is failing the potential of the US to do a great job at this excused? We have incredible experts - like Dr. Fauci, like many others at Johns Hopkins, the Cleveland Clinic, CDC etc - why did our leadership not convene a ‘Manhattan project’ style task force instead of deciding to go with political cover and his own idiotic assumptions instead?

As for China, nobody expected them to simply let everyone in - they never have. That’s a fantasy suggestion. We are fortunate they quickly shared genomic and epidemiological data - it could have easily gone another way.


Aaron, I share your thoughts, you are talking basically based on hindsight, which posts did you make 2 weeks ago sharing these concerns?

From my POV, despite the issues and blunders, we have done much much better than our European counterparts, which like I said thats the standard you and the opposition tells us we should be.


That claim is completely unscientific and not borne out by facts - the trajectory lines between the US, France, and Italy et al are not terribly dissimilar. Failed containment is failed containment, period.

Image


So far there have been around 60 deaths in the US, if we are not to use the number infected as metric to show the damage inflicted by this virus because there arent real and accurate numbers, compare them to the whole of Europe and tell me if its the same.

To my standard one dead is too many, look how many they have in the old continent to show where is the most impact based on lives that this has cost.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
kalvado
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:11 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Aaron, I share your thoughts, you are talking basically based on hindsight, which posts did you make 2 weeks ago sharing these concerns?

From my POV, despite the issues and blunders, we have done much much better than our European counterparts, which like I said thats the standard you and the opposition tells us we should be.


That claim is completely unscientific and not borne out by facts - the trajectory lines between the US, France, and Italy et al are not terribly dissimilar. Failed containment is failed containment, period.

Image


So far there have been around 60 deaths in the US, if we are not to use the number infected as metric to show the damage inflicted by this virus because there arent real and accurate numbers, compare them to the whole of Europe and tell me if its the same.

To my standard one dead is too many, look how many they have in the old continent to show where is the most impact based on lives that this has cost.

Problem of such epidemic - things change pretty fast. Was it just 2.5 weeks ago when there were no deaths in US at all. How long before we hit 1000? 10k?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:11 pm

There is enough blame to go around, China, WHO and the rest of the world.

I think the issue now is China declaring victory and claiming Wuhan Mission Accomplished with PR videos left other governments scrambling. They cannot clampdown on civilian life or control information as China did. So they are doing their best.

Too late for second-guessing anyone, just do your best.

The fun part, until last week, people sitting next to each other used to have their faces buried in their own electronic devices, now complaining about social distancing.
All posts are just opinions.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:14 pm

kalvado wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That claim is completely unscientific and not borne out by facts - the trajectory lines between the US, France, and Italy et al are not terribly dissimilar. Failed containment is failed containment, period.

Image


So far there have been around 60 deaths in the US, if we are not to use the number infected as metric to show the damage inflicted by this virus because there arent real and accurate numbers, compare them to the whole of Europe and tell me if its the same.

To my standard one dead is too many, look how many they have in the old continent to show where is the most impact based on lives that this has cost.

Problem of such epidemic - things change pretty fast. Was it just 2.5 weeks ago when there were no deaths in US at all. How long before we hit 1000? 10k?


We might get there, but at a very much slower pace. The swine flu killed 12,000+ In the US and was less lethal.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
NIKV69
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:32 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
We might get there, but at a very much slower pace. The swine flu killed 12,000+ In the US and was less lethal.


It also killed hundreds of thousands of thousands world wide. Coronavirus has killed 6500. What are you basing your claim it's more lethal? Personally I feel this will kill less people when all is said and done but like Rahm Emanuel said....
I am the Googlizer!!!
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:46 pm

Aesma wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:
https://apnews.com/8089a3d0ec8f9fde971bddd7b3aa2ba1

Coronavirus Vaccine Trials to Start on Monday
WASHINGTON (AP) — The first participant in a clinical trial for a vaccine to protect against the new coronavirus will receive an experimental dose on Monday, according to a government official.

The National Institutes of Health is funding the trial, which is taking place at the Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute in Seattle. The official who disclosed plans for the first participant spoke on condition of anonymity because the move has not been publicly announced.

Public health officials say it will take a year to 18 months to fully validate any potential vaccine.

I am having a hard time believing this for many reasons.

Thoughts?


Are they testing on death row people or something ?

1989worstyear wrote:
I know it's a moot point currently, but why are so many people forgetting what the Chinese government was doing back in Nov/Dec when this was first starting to break out?


Actually we don't really know what it was doing. Some local government was suppressing information, which is quite usual in China (and wrong).

Are you sure your own government would deal with a new virus without any mistake ? I'm not.


There's a difference between being unprepared/blindsighted and actively covering something up. I doubt Trudeau would be having doctors locked up for sounding the alarm if a cluster of pneumonia cases all of a sudden showed up in downtown Moncton.

Also, Jinping the Pooh's government clearly did nothing after the first SARS outbreak. 17 years later, here we are...
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
kalvado
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:56 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

So far there have been around 60 deaths in the US, if we are not to use the number infected as metric to show the damage inflicted by this virus because there arent real and accurate numbers, compare them to the whole of Europe and tell me if its the same.

To my standard one dead is too many, look how many they have in the old continent to show where is the most impact based on lives that this has cost.

Problem of such epidemic - things change pretty fast. Was it just 2.5 weeks ago when there were no deaths in US at all. How long before we hit 1000? 10k?


We might get there, but at a very much slower pace. The swine flu killed 12,000+ In the US and was less lethal.

Current estimates are between 50 and 90% will get sick, 2 - 4% of those die.
between 3 and 9 million death in US within next year. So, very roughly speaking, double of normal death rate is expected over next year or two. Whatever that means to you.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:57 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

This thing began as far as November. Are you another China apologist? China shaved almost 2 months off from the rest of the world to prepare.


Are you suggesting those research papers should have been completed faster? Not sure you understand scientific process...


Demanding perfection for those he doesn't trust. False flags galore.


Who can honestly trust China after all of this?
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:00 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Are you suggesting those research papers should have been completed faster? Not sure you understand scientific process...


Demanding perfection for those he doesn't trust. False flags galore.


Who can honestly trust China after all of this?


Only those who make money out of them and dont want to be cut off.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
kalvado
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:00 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Are you suggesting those research papers should have been completed faster? Not sure you understand scientific process...


Demanding perfection for those he doesn't trust. False flags galore.


Who can honestly trust China after all of this?

Same idiots who trust US, maybe?
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:03 pm

kalvado wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
Problem of such epidemic - things change pretty fast. Was it just 2.5 weeks ago when there were no deaths in US at all. How long before we hit 1000? 10k?


We might get there, but at a very much slower pace. The swine flu killed 12,000+ In the US and was less lethal.

Current estimates are between 50 and 90% will get sick, 2 - 4% of those die.
between 3 and 9 million death in US within next year. So, very roughly speaking, double of normal death rate is expected over next year or two. Whatever that means to you.


Yes were you also estimating WWIII early this year?

I happen to believe a vaccine will be made in time to prevent this and even if not, its just a wild speculation in your part as to the world ending in a few years because of climate change.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:05 pm

kalvado wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Demanding perfection for those he doesn't trust. False flags galore.


Who can honestly trust China after all of this?

Same idiots who trust US, maybe?


Yes lets follow the lead on Europe here not trust the US... but wait the US made a travel ban first, who did it later?
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
kalvado
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:16 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

We might get there, but at a very much slower pace. The swine flu killed 12,000+ In the US and was less lethal.

Current estimates are between 50 and 90% will get sick, 2 - 4% of those die.
between 3 and 9 million death in US within next year. So, very roughly speaking, double of normal death rate is expected over next year or two. Whatever that means to you.


Yes were you also estimating WWIII early this year?

I happen to believe a vaccine will be made in time to prevent this and even if not, its just a wild speculation in your part as to the world ending in a few years because of climate change.

We all hope for the best - but until vaccine actually happens (which may happen, or be easier to say than to do) or treatment gets better, this is the scenario which has to be planned for. Quarantine is buying time - and hopefully cuts those numbers.
That is the death rate that makes quarantine and lockout economically justified - we're talking millions of lives, and that justifies trillions of dollars losses.
 
kalvado
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:18 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

Who can honestly trust China after all of this?

Same idiots who trust US, maybe?


Yes lets follow the lead on Europe here not trust the US... but wait the US made a travel ban first, who did it later?

Travel ban is one of those small details which would barely go into textbook.
the way it would be described is "by spring, virus spread despite efforts to contain - such as travel restrictions and attempted testing for sick travellers"
 
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bgm
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:29 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

Who can honestly trust China after all of this?

Same idiots who trust US, maybe?


Yes lets follow the lead on Europe here not trust the US... but wait the US made a travel ban first, who did it later?


Trump sure likes his travel bans. :sarcastic: Perhaps the most recent one would've been effective if he had implemented it 2 months ago, but doing it now does nothing except give himself and his fans a boner. Talk about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted...
Really? Four more years of this?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:40 pm

With Cases in the US now over 4,000 and will probably be 16-20 thousand by next Monday, the hardest hit areas are going to need to start expanding ICU capacity. This is going to get a lot worse in the near term. These aren't ICU cases that last a day or two, but rather 7-21 days.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:44 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
bgm wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Yes lets follow the lead on Europe here not trust the US... but wait the US made a travel ban first, who did it later?


Trump sure likes his travel bans. :sarcastic: Perhaps the most recent one would've been effective if he had implemented it 2 months ago, but doing it now does nothing except give himself and his fans a boner. Talk about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted...


Yes, by the way another poster asked where are you from, but you have evaded responding. When are you going to tell us ?

And also yesterday Europe decided to close their borders, why is Trump the bad guy if Europe
Is also doing it?


I think both sides of the Atlantic had their pants around their ankles :ashamed:
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
tootallsd
Posts: 524
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:29 pm

Latest WH press conference -- this will last through July / August.
 
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JetBuddy
Posts: 2569
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:41 pm

NYT is now purposefully spreading misinformation in a time of crisis, taking a quote out of context, and publishing it as it was the only thing that was said.

Trump told reporters that if hospitals, states or local governments could get medical quipment faster by buying it directly from the source, they would get it faster than if it was all sourced through the federal government.

NYT is now presenting this as Trump said they're on their own. Which is NOT what he said. I watched the whole press conference. It was actually a very good one.

What Trump said, amongst other things:

“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves. We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Point of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself.”

Which would be a logical thing to do.

What the NYT chooses to tweet:

"Trump told governors this morning they are on their own:
“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” Mr. Trump told the governors during the conference call, a recording of which was shared with The New York Times."


https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1239 ... 70529?s=20

“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” Mr. Trump told the governors during the conference call. via
@jmartNYT


https://twitter.com/juliebosman/status/ ... 68833?s=20

We live in an era of fake news.
 
wingman
Posts: 3956
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:13 pm

Trump called this virus a hoax, fake news and a Democratic Party smear campaign, and then posted a doctored video on his own website that purportedly shows Biden endorsing him for President. It's hard to shed a tear for the Orange Clown Posse, especially when he actually said the words the NYT tweeted.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:28 pm

Please keep the discussion on topic without making personal comments.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
bugsbegone
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:03 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:23 pm

The Indian nutritionist and founder of the company Trive FNC, which provides functional nutrition services, Magda Pradan advises to increase natural foods in the diet during outbreaks of COVID-19 viruses. Office plankton, which hopes to defend itself against coronavirus by purchasing broccoli in a supermarket on the way home, will fail. Those who don’t like sports, but still don’t like to get sick during the COVID 19 pandemic, will have to spend at least half an hour a day on physical education, and aed equipment will also be good to use.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:26 pm

This absolutely insane. My gym says they are closing until April 1. I hope they plan on giving all members a refund. If you are elderly or predisposed to medical complications then stay home. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. This going to cause people to go crazy by not being able to do anything.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 12353
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 16, 2020 11:39 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Aaron, I share your thoughts, you are talking basically based on hindsight, which posts did you make 2 weeks ago sharing these concerns?

From my POV, despite the issues and blunders, we have done much much better than our European counterparts, which like I said thats the standard you and the opposition tells us we should be.


That claim is completely unscientific and not borne out by facts - the trajectory lines between the US, France, and Italy et al are not terribly dissimilar. Failed containment is failed containment, period.

Image


So far there have been around 60 deaths in the US, if we are not to use the number infected as metric to show the damage inflicted by this virus because there arent real and accurate numbers, compare them to the whole of Europe and tell me if its the same.

To my standard one dead is too many, look how many they have in the old continent to show where is the most impact based on lives that this has cost.


That is not how science works - you don’t move the parameters to something else that ‘makes sense’ to you more. Containment is the only thing that matters in the race against time with a disease - and that cat is out of the bag. We are into a mitigation stage now. Have you not seen anything Dr. Fauci or CDC have said in the last month?

According to the data, the only countries that can claim containment success are South Korea and Singapore. Perhaps China as well, since Dr. Redfield told Congress we should view that as a success in his opinion. Your claim the US has handled things better than Europe is borne of personal bias, not the data. Containment has failed in almost every western country affected so far.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
StarAC17
Posts: 3841
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 11:54 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:01 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
This absolutely insane. My gym says they are closing until April 1. I hope they plan on giving all members a refund. If you are elderly or predisposed to medical complications then stay home. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. This going to cause people to go crazy by not being able to do anything.


This is why Italy is a mess and entirely locked down now and the rest of Europe is following. Anywhere that the number of cases has stabilized or gone down has done this. Furthermore there isn't a full lockdown yet and you can still go to your friend's house or your family's or do something low key like a hike.
Personally, my yoga studio is closed, my volleyball league is postponed and I am trying to get through to Expedia to cancel a flight to Bali which sucks but this is what is going on today. Thankfully it looks like I will get a full refund and the resort in Bali is allowing us to postpone our trip.

Furthermore if you are under the age of 50 (that might be a little high in age) there is high enough chance you could have the disease and be asymptomatic or haven't shown symptoms yet and could pass that on to someone who is high risk to die thus can easily overload the healthcare system. In Italy anyone over 80 with this is basically given a death sentence if they can't recover on their own..
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:13 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
This absolutely insane. My gym says they are closing until April 1. I hope they plan on giving all members a refund. If you are elderly or predisposed to medical complications then stay home. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. This going to cause people to go crazy by not being able to do anything.


In the background, the World's smallest violin is gently playing.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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cjg225
Posts: 1979
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:21 am

As long as my apartment complex doesn't close its gym, I'll be able to continue to lift. For cardio, I could run outside, but dear God do I hate running. In the event of the Zombie Apocalypse, I'll be the first to go because I just ain't running.

Anywho....

Noticed an item out of stock on Amazon today and eventually figured out why. With everyone working from home now, there's a huge run on headsets. I was looking to replace the one I've used for a couple years because the cord is fraying and I can only repair it so much with electrical tape. The model I want won't be in stock until April, so I guess I'll have to put up with my gaming headset, which is fine and all, but is kinda wasted on something like a conference call... and it has no inline phone controls like an office headset would have.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
PixelPilot
Posts: 563
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:25 am

wingman wrote:
Trump called this virus a hoax, fake news and a Democratic Party smear campaign, and then posted a doctored video on his own website that purportedly shows Biden endorsing him for President. It's hard to shed a tear for the Orange Clown Posse, especially when he actually said the words the NYT tweeted.


The video from Biden’s campaign wasn’t doctored. There’s like few hundreds of clips all over Twitter from different perspective and people that went to that rally. Not to mention, Biden campaign posted it first as far as I am aware.
Can’t blame the guy. When he restricted travel from China and people that were there he was called a racist and bigot from every aisle on the left.
You can’t have a cake and eat it mate. You got to make up your mind.
Trump is far from perfect but he said he’ll do a lot of things and he is doing them. I’m not even voting but I would chill cause you got 4 more years of him I believe unless something insane happens.

As for the response I’m wondering why aren’t they locking US down at this point.
National guard not positioned yet or what’s their plan.
Florida beaches were packed today. People are insane.
Last edited by PixelPilot on Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:26 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
This absolutely insane. My gym says they are closing until April 1. I hope they plan on giving all members a refund. If you are elderly or predisposed to medical complications then stay home. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. This going to cause people to go crazy by not being able to do anything.


I suspected that my gym would pull a stunt like this and I therefore went in today to cancel my membership. Still had to give a month notice, so it is running until mid April or so.
If I see any charges after that I will force a charge back on my credit card.
 
wingman
Posts: 3956
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:58 am

PixelPilot wrote:
[
The video from Biden’s campaign wasn’t doctored. There’s like few hundreds of clips all over Twitter from different perspective and people that went to that rally. Not to mention, Biden campaign posted it first as far as I am aware.
Can’t blame the guy. When he restricted travel from China and people that were there he was called a racist and bigot from every aisle on the left.
You can’t have a cake and eat it mate. You got to make up your mind.
Trump is far from perfect but he said he’ll do a lot of things and he is doing them. I’m not even voting but I would chill cause you got 4 more years of him I believe unless something insane happens.


Well, except they just conveniently left out the whole sentence and context. That was the point I was making to BGM. Trump literally said, and he meant it, "go out and buy your own stuff". He said "I authorized it", as if individual states were not permitted to purchase supplies to fight the virus without his authorization. Twitter gave Trump's video of Biden its first ever "doctored video" warning.
https://news.yahoo.com/biden-campaign-b ... 08774.html
I know you guys want to push back but there's no way to cover up the epic failure of leadership we're presently witnessing. The failure comes in tweets and daily pressers. Just look at the Wall Street algorithms, as soon as they digest whatever idiotic shit comes out of Trump's fat jowls the market goes into a tailspin. He has no clothes, no clue, no brain. He's exposed for the fraud he's always been and it's sad as hell for all of us that it's taking a catastrophic event like this to finally prove what the majority of Americans knew that fateful day 3 1/2 years ago.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2531
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:08 am

scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
This absolutely insane. My gym says they are closing until April 1. I hope they plan on giving all members a refund. If you are elderly or predisposed to medical complications then stay home. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. This going to cause people to go crazy by not being able to do anything.


In the background, the World's smallest violin is gently playing.


Really? How hard is it too keep your distance from people and keep your hands away from your face? This isn't some airborne neurotoxin.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13160
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:21 am

JetBuddy wrote:
NYT is now purposefully spreading misinformation in a time of crisis, taking a quote out of context, and publishing it as it was the only thing that was said.

Trump told reporters that if hospitals, states or local governments could get medical quipment faster by buying it directly from the source, they would get it faster than if it was all sourced through the federal government.

NYT is now presenting this as Trump said they're on their own. Which is NOT what he said. I watched the whole press conference. It was actually a very good one.

What Trump said, amongst other things:

“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves. We will be backing you, but try getting it yourselves. Point of sales, much better, much more direct if you can get it yourself.”

Which would be a logical thing to do.

What the NYT chooses to tweet:

"Trump told governors this morning they are on their own:
“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” Mr. Trump told the governors during the conference call, a recording of which was shared with The New York Times."


https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1239 ... 70529?s=20

“Respirators, ventilators, all of the equipment — try getting it yourselves,” Mr. Trump told the governors during the conference call. via
@jmartNYT


https://twitter.com/juliebosman/status/ ... 68833?s=20

We live in an era of fake news.


So if an hospital, health care provider, or US state, orders all the production from a company, leaving nothing to others, that's OK ? Wouldn't it be better if there was some federal oversight of this ? Well, considering who is running the show, maybe not, but in an ideal world I mean.

In Europe the problem is appearing anyway, for example in France we have 4 mask factories, the government has banned exports, basically cancelling orders from the UK and other countries.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2273
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:37 am

Image

Image
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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Aesma
Posts: 13160
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:13 am

Are there measures taken to help people follow the guidelines, like providing sick pay ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
PPVRA
Posts: 8510
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:31 am

A couple of local grocery stores around where I live are opening early, but only for the elderly. I’m sure it can’t be just here, so make some phone calls if you’re in that age group.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
KFTG
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:59 am

Earlier today I heard a manager request a doctor's note if an employee takes sick time. Absolutely bonkers.
Boomers simply DO NOT get it. I doubt they ever will.
Some people work to live; boomers live to work.
 
MareBorealis
Posts: 150
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:16 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:17 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Furthermore if you are under the age of 50 (that might be a little high in age) there is high enough chance you could have the disease and be asymptomatic or haven't shown symptoms yet and could pass that on to someone who is high risk to die thus can easily overload the healthcare system. In Italy anyone over 80 with this is basically given a death sentence if they can't recover on their own..


Exactly. And some people just don't get it... "I'm young and healthy, why should I care? Keep the gyms open!"
 
marcelh
Posts: 1030
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:29 am

Maybe already posted here, but I may have missed it.
Good article why social distancing is the best solution.https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/
 
Derico
Posts: 4411
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:07 am

Israel has some of the most cutting-edge research and laboratories in the world. Yet, surprisingly, this article states the health system is completely wrecked:

https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/With- ... own-621205

TTailedTiger wrote:
scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
This absolutely insane. My gym says they are closing until April 1. I hope they plan on giving all members a refund. If you are elderly or predisposed to medical complications then stay home. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. This going to cause people to go crazy by not being able to do anything.


In the background, the World's smallest violin is gently playing.


Really? How hard is it too keep your distance from people and keep your hands away from your face? This isn't some airborne neurotoxin.


I get where you are coming from, and this indeed did make sense... about 8 weeks ago.

But American society decided to ignore the 10 weeks warning from Asia, and not act big and bold (overreact), when it could have slowed the disease for months until testing was universal and treatments were nearer at hand. So now the genie is out of the box, and what you suggest is completely useless since there are clearly 20 to 30 thousand infections in the US now at least, which each one infecting 2 other people if they don't remain separated from the healthy.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19120
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:13 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
scbriml wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
This absolutely insane. My gym says they are closing until April 1. I hope they plan on giving all members a refund. If you are elderly or predisposed to medical complications then stay home. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. This going to cause people to go crazy by not being able to do anything.


In the background, the World's smallest violin is gently playing.


Really? How hard is it too keep your distance from people and keep your hands away from your face? This isn't some airborne neurotoxin.


Yes, really.

This is impacting just about everyone. Have you seen news footage from Italy and Spain? USA will be next - already up to 3,500 known cases and 68 deaths (the real numbers will be much higher).

But feel free to complain about your gym (sensibly) closing.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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bgm
Posts: 2450
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:27 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
This absolutely insane. My gym says they are closing until April 1. I hope they plan on giving all members a refund. If you are elderly or predisposed to medical complications then stay home. The rest of us shouldn't have to suffer. This going to cause people to go crazy by not being able to do anything.


There are plenty of things you can do: find a new hobby, learn a new language, read some books, learn a new craft. Continue to drive us all bonkers on a.net.
Really? Four more years of this?

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