Confuscius wrote:

The shortage of toilet paper is becoming critical, it’s time for the government to release the nation’s strategic toilet paper reserve.

Wait until strategic reserve of shit is fully released...

The US-centric haters are not going to like this, but reasonable people will listen to this man for 30 seconds and see competence......

Dr. Fauci: Neither Trump nor CDC to blame for testing delay

"Was the glitch or anything about the production of the test President Trump’s fault?" Hewitt responded. "Or actually, let me put it more broadly, would every president have run into the same problem?"

"Oh, absolutely," Fauci replied. "This has nothing to do with anybody’s fault, certainly not the president’s fault."
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... ting-delay

But that won't get half the headlines a FAKE news report about an "exclusive" vaccine buyout receives, ignorant euros will continue to make fools of themselves and Trump wins 2020 in a landslide.

PixelPilot wrote:

The virus can live up to 3 days on a plastic surface and hours on others.

What's the word on paper products?

The lack of testing kits early on has been key. The Trump Administration decided they didn't want to use the WHO developed version, but instead one developed by our NIH. Some early sets of NIH kits were bad, that happens sometimes with test kits and drugs, but it delayed testing on 1000's and in turn delaying in part our ability to deal with this crises earlier. So yes, the Trump Administration is in part to blame for this crises at it current level as due to that and other bad decisions our of fear of the economic problems losing re-election in November. For that Trump and many Republicans deserve to be voted out of office this fall with prejudice.

ltbewr wrote:

The lack of testing kits early on has been key. The Trump Administration decided they didn't want to use the WHO developed version, but instead one developed by our NIH. Some early sets of NIH kits were bad, that happens sometimes with test kits and drugs, but it delayed testing on 1000's and in turn delaying in part our ability to deal with this crises earlier. So yes, the Trump Administration is in part to blame for this crises at it current level as due to their bad decision. For that Trump deserves to be voted out of office this fall with prejudice.

Creating multiple tests is scientifically sound and advised. This was even affirmed by the company creating the WHO test. That is also exactly why the Obama CDC created its own ebola test.

An inquisitive person would find that most of the delays were due to FDA regulations. The Trump administration has changed those regulations that stood in their way. Your claims are unfounded.

Dr. Fauci: Neither Trump nor CDC to blame for testing delay
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... ting-delay

mham001 wrote:

The US-centric haters are not going to like this, but reasonable people will listen to this man for 30 seconds and see competence......

Dr. Fauci: Neither Trump nor CDC to blame for testing delay

"Was the glitch or anything about the production of the test President Trump’s fault?" Hewitt responded. "Or actually, let me put it more broadly, would every president have run into the same problem?"

"Oh, absolutely," Fauci replied. "This has nothing to do with anybody’s fault, certainly not the president’s fault."
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... ting-delay

But that won't get half the headlines a FAKE news report about an "exclusive" vaccine buyout receives, ignorant euros will continue to make fools of themselves and Trump wins 2020 in a landslide.

This is factually incorrect. Well documented that at least one lab in WA did have instrumentation and sample collection system used for flu monitoring, but was banned by FDA from running corona tests on the same samples. We may discuss if the issue was escalated to the level of political appointees, or some rank and file paper pusher bear refused to sign off.

Yeah, I don't understand the TDS that prevents even posters that I have some respect for to now say that Trump and the MAGA's and supporters weren't totally downplaying the situation and that a possible crisis might be at hand. For weeks prior to last week I was constantly seeing and hearing people, including the president, that others were overreacting, that we needed to continue our normal lives, "support businesses" and carry on.

It was ridiculous and is again now ridiculous in the other direction. But that is TDS for you.

Tugg

mham001 wrote:

And Dr Fauci is a liar.

It doesn't state that in the article.

Tugg

Could there be a resurgence of the COVID-19 after this epidemic subsides? Many people I have spoken to are worried that this could return once temperatures begin to drop after the summer is over.

That too, there won't be a vaccine by then, since scientists have told us that it will likely take 12 - 18 months to be able to get one.

Tugger wrote:

mham001 wrote:

And Dr Fauci is a liar.

It doesn't state that in the article.

Tugg

Sorry, that is not clear. I am referring to the poster. However, Dr Fauci agreed when it was mentioned in a press conference. So who would know best?

Speaking of the good doctor, this is news from his department....

Trial of Coronavirus Vaccine Made by Moderna Begins in Seattle

The first testing in humans of an experimental vaccine for the new coronavirus began on Monday, the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases announced.

The main goal of this first set of tests is to find out if the vaccine is safe. If it is, later studies will determine how well it works.

The trial was “launched in record speed,” Dr. Anthony Fauci, the institute’s director, said in a statement.

Such rapid development of a potential vaccine is unprecedented, and it was possible because researchers were able to use what they already knew about related coronaviruses that had caused other diseases outbreaks, SARS and MERS.

Despite the rapid progress, even if the vaccine is proved safe and effective against the virus, it will not be available for at least a year.

The tests, which are being conducted at Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute in Seattle, use a vaccine made by Moderna Inc.

Seattle was chosen as a test site before the United States had any known coronavirus cases, not because of the outbreak that erupted there. Washington State has been hard hit by the virus, with more than 670 cases to date......

Work on the vaccine started in January, as soon as Chinese scientists posted the genetic sequence of the new coronavirus on the internet. Researchers at Moderna and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases identified part of the sequence that codes for a spike-like protein on the surface of the virus that attaches to human cells, helping the virus to invade them. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/heal ... ccine.html

I really don't get it. They planned a vaccine and chose a region for testing before there were any actual cases in the US? How can that be when we all know Trump did NOTHING! Didn't he? So how is it the US government is fielding the first vaccine trials?

casinterest wrote:

acavpics wrote:

Could there be a resurgence of the COVID-19 after this epidemic subsides? Many people I have spoken to are worried that this could return once temperatures begin to drop after the summer is over.

That too, there won't be a vaccine by then, since scientists have told us that it will likely take 12 - 18 months to be able to get one.

Temperatures don't seem to matter. Malaysia has 600+ cases. and is catching up quickly with Japan. This disease spreads no matter what. The resurgence will be strong as people get tired of the social distancing. Young, healthy people don't have much to fear by getting sick. The problem is the older folks and those with severe underlying conditions. Any resurgence in the population will spike the amount of folks going to the hospital in the at risk population causing overload.

But then, why is it that in the case of SARS, we haven't seen any resurgence since its epidemic in 2003? All we hear about is a few isolated cases every now and then.

Can we all give it a rest? Let's keep this thread corona oriented and not a normal political sh**show. I have many criticisms of how it was handled by Trump but honestly, NO ONE handled it well, including our European friends.

But who cares, let's stick to the topic.

My biggest question is if we can get a vaccine done faster. I don't really know the process... Why 12-18 months? What if we spent unprecedented amount of money on developing it?

Earlier in this or another thread, someone said "no amount of money can make a woman deliver a baby in one month." I figure this is similar, but what is the snag? Need time to see if the recovery works? Growing or producing the vaccines or whatever you do with them? What is the fastest humanly possible timeline with almost infinite resources and the least amount of bureaucracy?

DeltaMD90 wrote:

My biggest question is if we can get a vaccine done faster. I don't really know the process... Why 12-18 months? What if we spent unprecedented amount of money on developing it?

Earlier in this or another thread, someone said "no amount of money can make a woman deliver a baby in one month." I figure this is similar, but what is the snag? Need time to see if the recovery works? Growing or producing the vaccines or whatever you do with them? What is the fastest humanly possible timeline with almost infinite resources and the least amount of bureaucracy?

They need to know how it affects the recipients. Wouldn't do much good if it kills people in 6 months.

mham001 wrote:

I really don't get it. They planned a vaccine and chose a region for testing before there were any actual cases in the US? How can that be when we all know Trump did NOTHING! Didn't he? So how is it the US government is fielding the first vaccine trials?

I think the key thing to understand that this happened IN SPITE of him and his constant denial of the potential situation and downplaying the seriousness of what could occur in the nation if it progressed as it had elsewhere.

The guy was a pin-head in how he communicated to the public regarding COVID-19 and its spread and how we should approach it.

And please know I am not attacking you, I appreciate much of what you post. This though... Sorry, I just did not see Trump working seriously on this or communicating the potentially serious effects when he had the chance earlier.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-h ... oax-2020-3

Tugg

I haven't read all the posts but wanted to share this in case it hasn't been posted yet. Here is an important excerpt:

"Spreading the virus puts those in the high-risk category at much greater risk. This is the moral argument. It’s a strong argument because there are only two ways, as of today, that the virus can be stopped: let it run its course and infect 100s of millions of people, or social distancing. There is no other way today. If you don’t practice social distancing, people downstream from you that you transmit the virus to will die, and many will suffer."


https://medium.com/@Jason_Scott_Warner/ ... Ugf_MRIFD4

Tugger wrote:

mham001 wrote:

I really don't get it. They planned a vaccine and chose a region for testing before there were any actual cases in the US? How can that be when we all know Trump did NOTHING! Didn't he? So how is it the US government is fielding the first vaccine trials?

I think the key thing to understand that this happened IN SPITE of him and his constant denial of the potential situation and downplaying the seriousness of what could occur in the nation if it progressed as it had elsewhere.

The guy was a pin-head in how he communicated to the public regarding COVID-19 and its spread and how we should approach it.

And please know I am not attacking you, I appreciate much of what you post. This though... Sorry, I just did not see Trump working seriously on this or communicating the potentially serious effects when he had the chance earlier.

Tugg

The President, whomever that may be, also has a duty to refrain from spreading panic. It is his job to soothe (not that I'm saying Trump is soothing) and that is how I read his statements. So while he was downplaying it, in the background, the Trump-appointed virus task force apparently has been working feverishly (oh, I made a pun) on the problem.

I'm sorry, if the US government is the first in the world to deliver a vaccine, then we have indeed been subjected to a massive hoax about the supposed ineptness of all facets of the Trump administration.

DeltaMD90 wrote:

Can we all give it a rest? Let's keep this thread corona oriented and not a normal political sh**show. I have many criticisms of how it was handled by Trump but honestly, NO ONE handled it well, including our European friends.

But who cares, let's stick to the topic.

My biggest question is if we can get a vaccine done faster. I don't really know the process... Why 12-18 months? What if we spent unprecedented amount of money on developing it?

Earlier in this or another thread, someone said "no amount of money can make a woman deliver a baby in one month." I figure this is similar, but what is the snag? Need time to see if the recovery works? Growing or producing the vaccines or whatever you do with them? What is the fastest humanly possible timeline with almost infinite resources and the least amount of bureaucracy?

Yeah, I get that. And I agree.
As to the time to create and produce a vaccine, this gives a good over view:
https://www.sciencealert.com/who-says-a ... onths-away

As I understand it they are looking at minimizing animal testing and move more quickly to humans and most health agencies and working to prevent any regulatory hurdles. Scale is the other issue, it is one thing to find a vaccine, another to produce billions of doses quickly and get them out to the public.

Tugg

Aaron747 wrote:

Tugger wrote:

It's things like this that confuse and concern me:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/us/kentu ... index.html

A Kentucky novel coronavirus patient checked himself out of the hospital against medical advice. So to prevent him from spreading the virus, officials are surrounding his house to keep him there.
The 53-year-old man in Nelson County refused to quarantine himself after testing positive for Covid-19, Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear said.
Nelson County officials "forced an isolation" on the man, one of the first 20 confirmed Covid-19 cases in the state.

WTF is some people's mental defect that they do stuff like this? The guy is now supposedly "cooperating" but seriously who does something like that?
(And yes, I know there are similar stories of people with STD's etc.)

Tugg

There was a psycho like this in Japan a couple weeks ago - had already tested positive and went all over town attempting to admittedly 'spread the virus'.

https://japantoday.com/category/crime/u ... read-virus

On French TV (and twitter) you have people saying police should shoot such people, or anyone not obeying orders. That escalated quickly !

DeltaMD90 wrote:

Can we all give it a rest? Let's keep this thread corona oriented and not a normal political sh**show. I have many criticisms of how it was handled by Trump but honestly, NO ONE handled it well, including our European friends.

But who cares, let's stick to the topic.

My biggest question is if we can get a vaccine done faster. I don't really know the process... Why 12-18 months? What if we spent unprecedented amount of money on developing it?

Earlier in this or another thread, someone said "no amount of money can make a woman deliver a baby in one month." I figure this is similar, but what is the snag? Need time to see if the recovery works? Growing or producing the vaccines or whatever you do with them? What is the fastest humanly possible timeline with almost infinite resources and the least amount of bureaucracy?

The main issue is safety. If your vaccine has side effects, they must be evaluated precisely, no point in vaccinating if you do more harm than good.

There is the new kind of DNA/RNA vaccines though that are being talked about, that could be made available much quicker, with a first human test subject already. These vaccines wouldn't protect you entirely, but should help reduce the severity of the illness, which could be enough to solve one of the problem we have (overwhelmed medical facilities).

Then there is the possibility of an existing drug, with well known side effects, that could help fight the infection. Apparently it's the case with chloroquine, an antimalarial drug, according to preliminary testing. Some French people are already taking it (having it in their pharmacy), some even poisoned themselves, since it's quite nasty if you take too much (can cause blindness among other things...).

Hundreds of teams are working on both ways to stave off the pandemic so I don't think money is an issue.

Finally ventilator production is also ramping up, doctors and nurses and students in medicine are all being trained in dealing with this disease (including an aunt of mine, a retired pediatric hand surgeon in Italy), field hospitals are being built...

President Trump has announced hard enforcement of entry of any non-US Citizen from Mexico. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=U507DHP

casinterest wrote:

acavpics wrote:

Could there be a resurgence of the COVID-19 after this epidemic subsides? Many people I have spoken to are worried that this could return once temperatures begin to drop after the summer is over.

That too, there won't be a vaccine by then, since scientists have told us that it will likely take 12 - 18 months to be able to get one.

Temperatures don't seem to matter. Malaysia has 600+ cases. and is catching up quickly with Japan. This disease spreads no matter what. The resurgence will be strong as people get tired of the social distancing. Young, healthy people don't have much to fear by getting sick. The problem is the older folks and those with severe underlying conditions. Any resurgence in the population will spike the amount of folks going to the hospital in the at risk population causing overload.

Older folks will have to adhere to social distancing FOREVER, to prevent from becoming infected. Not even a vaccine developed in the future might be enough.
And that brings us to the question of “Quality of Life”: would you rather have a good social life with friends and family with the risk of dying from an infection at a moments notice, or would you rather be “locked up” and be free from disease until you die from old age, all alone?

Unfortunately , “Quality of Life” is often completed ignored in the quest of “savings lives at all cost”. I think that is a mistake. I hope that in the future, a more balanced approach will be found.

I know what my 70 year old parents would choose.

DeltaMD90 wrote:

Can we all give it a rest?

No.

DeltaMD90 wrote:

Can we all give it a rest? Let's keep this thread corona oriented and not a normal political sh**show. I have many criticisms of how it was handled by Trump but honestly, NO ONE handled it well, including our European friends.

But who cares, let's stick to the topic.

My biggest question is if we can get a vaccine done faster. I don't really know the process... Why 12-18 months? What if we spent unprecedented amount of money on developing it?

Earlier in this or another thread, someone said "no amount of money can make a woman deliver a baby in one month." I figure this is similar, but what is the snag? Need time to see if the recovery works? Growing or producing the vaccines or whatever you do with them? What is the fastest humanly possible timeline with almost infinite resources and the least amount of bureaucracy?

Handling of the Virus - Taiwan has done well, so has Singapore. USA, thank god, closed flights from China in early Feb to wailing of everyone. Six weeks later, most countries have shut down intl flying except thru gateways.

I am being a bit sarcastic, but certifications in Aviation are quiet easy and straightforward compared to drug approvals. Stage 1 trials are quite necessary, this tests the safety, stage 2 covers more, stage 3 covers the effectiveness trials. The FDA will not approve a drug almost as effective as those on the market already, even if they cost far less. A friend when she was in her medical residency worked on Minoxidil 3rd stage trials, it took 5 years to get to the 3rd stage, with the 3rd scheduled for 3 years of work. the drug companies were the big source for research funding. In the case of this vaccine, we should be able to get one out in 6 months, but there are lots of empires that want to hoard power, not do anything.

This caught my eye. Weekly reporting of CDC information on presentation of Influenza-like illness as of this week.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/#ILINet



Influenza seasons don't have three humps. That uptick in the 2019-2020 season is not influenza, it's coronavirus. Interesting to see where this data will go.

Guys, I have a major correction to myself I have to make. It seems that benzalkonium chloride (Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride) is likely ineffective against this virus, and coronaviruses in general. I have no idea why, it's an enveloped virus so mechanisms should be the same as with other quats and enveloped viruses but what little evidence we have shows its mostly useless in this pairing. Please note this means some surface disinfectants known to be effective against flu viruses may not be effective against coronaviruses.

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection. ... 95-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext

Sometimes ingredients that are not listed as active ingredients may have an effect though, so if a product is allowed to claim it's effective against human coronaviruses, it's because it's been tested against them but only that specific product formulation.

If you're in the US, use the official EPA list of disinfectants to guide your disinfectant choices:

https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registrat ... sars-cov-2

Looking over the list, it seems that sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) containing products generally (hypothetically) inactivate the virus in the shortest time.

I assume these times are based on testing on different coronaviruses, so please be aware this guidance may change as this specific virus becomes better researched.

Jouhou wrote:

Guys, I have a major correction to myself I have to make. It seems that benzalkonium chloride (Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride) is likely ineffective against this virus, and coronaviruses in general. I have no idea why, it's an enveloped virus so mechanisms should be the same as with other quats and enveloped viruses but what little evidence we have shows its mostly useless in this pairing. Please note this means some surface disinfectants known to be effective against flu viruses may not be effective against coronaviruses.

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection. ... 95-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext

Sometimes ingredients that are not listed as active ingredients may have an effect though, so if a product is allowed to claim it's effective against human coronaviruses, it's because it's been tested against them but only that specific product formulation.

If you're in the US, use the official EPA list of disinfectants to guide your disinfectant choices:

https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registrat ... sars-cov-2

Looking over the list, it seems that sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) containing products generally (hypothetically) inactivate the virus in the shortest time.

I assume these times are based on testing on different coronaviruses, so please be aware this guidance may change as this specific virus becomes better researched.

Yes, benzalkonium chloride concentration in consumer products is ineffective against this. Bleach, then alcohol.

mham001 wrote:

The US-centric haters are not going to like this, but reasonable people will listen to this man for 30 seconds and see competence......

Dr. Fauci: Neither Trump nor CDC to blame for testing delay

"Was the glitch or anything about the production of the test President Trump’s fault?" Hewitt responded. "Or actually, let me put it more broadly, would every president have run into the same problem?"

"Oh, absolutely," Fauci replied. "This has nothing to do with anybody’s fault, certainly not the president’s fault."
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... ting-delay.

Cute. Everybody else can make tests available, but the US admin can´t. Its not like the current admin made a decision *not* to use the WHO gold standard test, and task the CDC instead that initially failed making one... or that the pandemic response team was canned.......

He understands its a bad time for him to get fired, so why confirm that Trump has broken a ton of eggs.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

mham001 wrote:

The US-centric haters are not going to like this, but reasonable people will listen to this man for 30 seconds and see competence......

Dr. Fauci: Neither Trump nor CDC to blame for testing delay

"Was the glitch or anything about the production of the test President Trump’s fault?" Hewitt responded. "Or actually, let me put it more broadly, would every president have run into the same problem?"

"Oh, absolutely," Fauci replied. "This has nothing to do with anybody’s fault, certainly not the president’s fault."
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... ting-delay.

Cute. Everybody else can make tests available, but the US admin can´t. Its not like the current admin made a decision *not* to use the WHO gold standard test, and task the CDC instead that initially failed making one... or that the pandemic response team was canned.......

He understands its a bad time for him to get fired, so why confirm that Trump has broken a ton of eggs.

best regards
Thomas

This is correct. A governments most important task is to make preparations for bad things, so when the bad things the government do not need to act ad hoc.

Pellegrine wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

Guys, I have a major correction to myself I have to make. It seems that benzalkonium chloride (Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride) is likely ineffective against this virus, and coronaviruses in general. I have no idea why, it's an enveloped virus so mechanisms should be the same as with other quats and enveloped viruses but what little evidence we have shows its mostly useless in this pairing. Please note this means some surface disinfectants known to be effective against flu viruses may not be effective against coronaviruses.

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection. ... 95-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext

Sometimes ingredients that are not listed as active ingredients may have an effect though, so if a product is allowed to claim it's effective against human coronaviruses, it's because it's been tested against them but only that specific product formulation.

If you're in the US, use the official EPA list of disinfectants to guide your disinfectant choices:

https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registrat ... sars-cov-2

Looking over the list, it seems that sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) containing products generally (hypothetically) inactivate the virus in the shortest time.

I assume these times are based on testing on different coronaviruses, so please be aware this guidance may change as this specific virus becomes better researched.

Yes, benzalkonium chloride concentration in consumer products is ineffective against this. Bleach, then alcohol.

I am a federal worker, the only disinfectant provided to us is formula 409. My leadership has been waiting for guidance from the CDC for disinfectants, when it's the f*cking EPA they should be looking to. Apparently everyone has forgotten how to use google.

Jouhou wrote:

Pellegrine wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

Guys, I have a major correction to myself I have to make. It seems that benzalkonium chloride (Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride) is likely ineffective against this virus, and coronaviruses in general. I have no idea why, it's an enveloped virus so mechanisms should be the same as with other quats and enveloped viruses but what little evidence we have shows its mostly useless in this pairing. Please note this means some surface disinfectants known to be effective against flu viruses may not be effective against coronaviruses.

https://www.journalofhospitalinfection. ... 95-6701(20)30046-3/fulltext

Sometimes ingredients that are not listed as active ingredients may have an effect though, so if a product is allowed to claim it's effective against human coronaviruses, it's because it's been tested against them but only that specific product formulation.

If you're in the US, use the official EPA list of disinfectants to guide your disinfectant choices:

https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registrat ... sars-cov-2

Looking over the list, it seems that sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) containing products generally (hypothetically) inactivate the virus in the shortest time.

I assume these times are based on testing on different coronaviruses, so please be aware this guidance may change as this specific virus becomes better researched.

Yes, benzalkonium chloride concentration in consumer products is ineffective against this. Bleach, then alcohol.

I am a federal worker, the only disinfectant provided to us is formula 409. My leadership has been waiting for guidance from the CDC for disinfectants, when it's the f*cking EPA they should be looking to. Apparently everyone has forgotten how to use google.

Ridiculous, but very symptomatic of a leadership failure where a random group of experts is commenting and attending meetings instead of having dedicated SMEs running each area of concern. This was addressed in this excellent share from Jake Tapper:

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1 ... 36258?s=20

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1 ... 83681?s=20

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1 ... 67393?s=20

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1 ... 24001?s=20

The sky is starting to fall here in Europe.
These are scenes from a supermarket North of Paris.

https://youtu.be/H_kRfrIP3m0

Until a few days ago, people laughed or smirked at me wearing a mask, now they are all desperately wrapping their mouth in their scarfs almost wondering if I have a spare one for them.

Things are getting ugly very fast.

Belgium, where the minister of health was previously smiling and saying that they were prepared for an outbreak, are now worried about the quickly overwhelming situation.
There are long lines at supermarkets as a new rule imposes a maximum capacity of persons in the store to 1 person per 10m².
All non essential stores have closed as of noon. Need cement or paint? Come back in 3 weeks.

Store shelves are empty, literally empty.
Supermarkets and governments are saying that there is plenty of stock in the supply chain.
However, I have identified a huge problem.
Supermarkets themselves are now becoming points of infection, and more specifically the cashier area. The cashiering process involves putting food on moving carpets that are not constantly disinfected, and will hence have germs of hundreds of people on them. The people maning them are also very exposed as they touch whatever people put on there, and then touch their faces, their nose and so on.
So while the supply chain may be fine, we might soon have to close the supermarkets themselves when employees start becoming infected and start superspreading.

I suggest everyone to handle purchased food items as potential sources of infection, to wash or disinfect them if possible, and if not, to store them for a couple of days before handling them again and cook before consuming.

In terms of infections, things are looking pretty bleak in Europe. Belgian virologists are saying that the official count does not start to represent the actual count and it's jist the tip of the iceberg.
Source: www.hln.be

Waterbomber2 wrote:

The sky is starting to fall here in Europe.
These are scenes from a supermarket North of Paris.

https://youtu.be/H_kRfrIP3m0

Until a few days ago, people laughed or smirked at me wearing a mask, now they are all desperately wrapping their mouth in their scarfs almost wondering if I have a spare one for them.

Things are getting ugly very fast.

Belgium, where the minister of health was previously smiling and saying that they were prepared for an outbreak, are now worried about the quickly overwhelming situation.
There are long lines at supermarkets as a new rule imposes a maximum capacity of persons in the store to 1 person per 10m².
All non essential stores have closed as of noon. Need cement or paint? Come back in 3 weeks.

Store shelves are empty, literally empty.
Supermarkets and governments are saying that there is plenty of stock in the supply chain.
However, I have identified a huge problem.
Supermarkets themselves are now becoming points of infection, and more specifically the cashier area. The cashiering process involves putting food on moving carpets that are not constantly disinfected, and will hence have germs of hundreds of people on them. The people maning them are also very exposed as they touch whatever people put on there, and then touch their faces, their nose and so on.
So while the supply chain may be fine, we might soon have to close the supermarkets themselves when employees start becoming infected and start superspreading.

I suggest everyone to handle purchased food items as potential sources of infection, to wash or disinfect them if possible, and if not, to store them for a couple of days before handling them again and cook before consuming.

In terms of infections, things are looking pretty bleak in Europe. Belgian virologists are saying that the official count does not start to represent the actual count and it's jist the tip of the iceberg.
Source: http://www.hln.be

I thought about the supermarket issue too. Yes, you have to consider every surface that is touched may be contaminated...and people touch and put back things in markets. Personally I am limiting trips outside the house only to gas station/market/pharmacy, going as little as possible and disinfecting as I go. Home, outer layer comes off instantly, shoes come off, everything gets disinfected.

Waterbomber2 wrote:

The sky is starting to fall here in Europe.
These are scenes from a supermarket North of Paris.

https://youtu.be/H_kRfrIP3m0

Until a few days ago, people laughed or smirked at me wearing a mask, now they are all desperately wrapping their mouth in their scarfs almost wondering if I have a spare one for them.

Things are getting ugly very fast.

Belgium, where the minister of health was previously smiling and saying that they were prepared for an outbreak, are now worried about the quickly overwhelming situation.
There are long lines at supermarkets as a new rule imposes a maximum capacity of persons in the store to 1 person per 10m².
All non essential stores have closed as of noon. Need cement or paint? Come back in 3 weeks.

Store shelves are empty, literally empty.
Supermarkets and governments are saying that there is plenty of stock in the supply chain.
However, I have identified a huge problem.
Supermarkets themselves are now becoming points of infection, and more specifically the cashier area. The cashiering process involves putting food on moving carpets that are not constantly disinfected, and will hence have germs of hundreds of people on them. The people maning them are also very exposed as they touch whatever people put on there, and then touch their faces, their nose and so on.
So while the supply chain may be fine, we might soon have to close the supermarkets themselves when employees start becoming infected and start superspreading.

I suggest everyone to handle purchased food items as potential sources of infection, to wash or disinfect them if possible, and if not, to store them for a couple of days before handling them again and cook before consuming.

In terms of infections, things are looking pretty bleak in Europe. Belgian virologists are saying that the official count does not start to represent the actual count and it's jist the tip of the iceberg.
Source: http://www.hln.be

Better start accepting the inevitable that 1+ billion people will become infected and 4% will die.

Waterbomber2 wrote:

The sky is starting to fall here in Europe.
These are scenes from a supermarket North of Paris.

Thats how things looked like in some places (mostly big cities) on Friday and Saturday when the lockdown was announced.

Guess what, you can now just walk to any supermarket and buy anything with much less hassle. That's just the herd mentality.

Jouhou wrote:

If you're in the US, use the official EPA list of disinfectants to guide your disinfectant choices:

https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registrat ... sars-cov-2

Looking over the list, it seems that sodium hypochlorite (chlorine bleach) containing products generally (hypothetically) inactivate the virus in the shortest time.

I assume these times are based on testing on different coronaviruses, so please be aware this guidance may change as this specific virus becomes better researched.

Still not clear how to keep 10 minutes wet, generally spray and wipe it down.

On a related note, Michigan AG sent a cease-and-desist note to Menards(a low-cost home improvement store) for price gouging cleaning supplies, they have 10 days to respond.

If you notice price gouging by anyone please call your State AG.

The supermarket situation in Australia is still pretty bad. Most of the major chains now dedicate their first hour of the day to pensioners & the disabled, and trading hours have been reduced. Most are now closing at 8PM this week just so they can restock for the next day in relative peace & to give their staff a break. One major chain is looking to take on an additional 5,000 staff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEKHxGNJLmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwHB7r0bdH8

Oh, and the footy season will be starting tomorrow night. With no crowds though, and a reduced 17 round season, with shortened quarters as some games may only be played 3 or 4 days apart.

Local papers and the Washington Post (and probably the NYT) are running articles and groceries. Us mammal need our carbs, proteins, and fats. As well as veggies and (skinny spouse) ice cream. A major concern for all of us is the health and morale of those working at these stores. They probably should have, along with health workers and emergency workers priority for testing.

Canlis, our famed restaurant 5 stars and $$$$, has turned into a fast food take out and delivery oasis. All public health correct, keeping employees hired, and also creating traffic jams. Consider supporting your local restaurants who are doing the same.

tommy1808 wrote:

Cute. Everybody else can make tests available, but the US admin can´t. Its not like the current admin made a decision *not* to use the WHO gold standard test, and task the CDC instead that initially failed making one... or that the pandemic response team was canned.......

He understands its a bad time for him to get fired, so why confirm that Trump has broken a ton of eggs.

Once again Tommy - wrong. You should stick to worrying about your own because you do not understand what really goes on 5,000 miles away in a country n which you have only spent a few days.

Biden falsely says Trump administration rejected WHO coronavirus test kits (that were never offered)
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ejected-w/

According to interviews with several infectious disease experts, Biden’s statement leaves out key context regarding how different countries decided on which test they’d use to identify the presence of the coronavirus.

WHO lists seven different approaches — including that of China, the United States, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, France and Germany — each one targeting different parts of the COVID-19 genetic profile.

Christopher Mores, a global health professor at George Washington University, said that when faced with an outbreak, the WHO will usually adopt the best test that a research group brings forward.

The German one became the approach WHO circulated as its preferred model.

Aid groups, such as the Pan American Health Organization, took that model and built their training and supplies around it. If the model was like the recipe in a cookbook, the supplies were the ingredients in a home meal kit from Blue Apron.

The countries WHO helped are ones that lack the virology lab horsepower that exists across the United States. The outreach work by the Pan American Health Organization is a case in point.

"No discussions occurred between WHO and CDC about WHO providing COVID-19 tests to the United States," said WHO spokeswoman Margaret Harris. "This is consistent with experience since the United States does not ordinarily rely on WHO for reagents or diagnostic tests because of sufficient domestic capacity."

Any country could use whatever recipe it preferred, and even if the United States had picked the WHO’s protocol, it wouldn’t need the WHO to sell it the materials to follow it. Germany released its protocol on Jan. 17, but the U.S. decided to have the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention develop its own. That protocol was published Jan. 28. .....

....The CDC’s test was different and more complicated than the German test. It worked in the CDC lab, but when the materials went out to state labs, some of them got inconsistent results. The CDC had to resend packages with new chemical reagents.

State laboratories started developing their own tests and were ready to use them, but had to wait for emergency approval from the Food and Drug Administration. All of this added up to a delay in testing capabilities which resulted in fewer Americans being tested and an overall slower U.S. response compared to other countries............

Dieuwer wrote:

Older folks will have to adhere to social distancing FOREVER, to prevent from becoming infected. Not even a vaccine developed in the future might be enough.
.

A vaccine won't be enough? Why do you say that?

State laboratories started developing their own tests and were ready to use them, but had to wait for emergency approval from the Food and Drug Administration. All of this added up to a delay in testing capabilities which resulted in fewer Americans being tested and an overall slower U.S. response compared to other countries............

I find that statement from Politifact confusing because another article advertised on the same page says there was never really a "rule' or "law" that prevented other tests, simply "guidance" or policies, yet state labs apparently believed they were required to get FDA approval. Te article below says the claim that Trump overturned an Obama law, (or policy) is FALSE, but only in that it was a policy Obama inherited, not created. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... irus-test/

When reporters asked, the White House pointed to a February Food and Drug Administration policy that relaxed the rules on tests for coronavirus developed in labs. The change allowed labs to start using "COVID-19 diagnostics" while they are waiting for the FDA to approve their testing procedure. The FDA laid out specific steps for labs to follow to show that their method for spotting the virus held up under scrutiny.

Tests still are minimally available in Washington State - even if you have a cough and fever. The wasted last 6 weeks thanks to the fearless leader is having fatal consequences. But then there are a lot of believers that the earth is really flat.

Considering that Coronavirus can stay active on surfaces for a long time, what makes people think that the virus is not already everywhere? For sure asymptomatic people have been to supermarkets and touched whatever. And just imagine if a worker in a factory is ill and transmits the virus to every toilet paper roll produced!

COVID 19 is a respiratory illness. The virus enters through your mouth and nose. Yes, it's on surfaces, that's why it's so important that you don't touch your face. Toilet paper transmission is highly unlikely. The virus would have to survive the manufacturing and delivery process and then find it's way into someone's respiratory system. If it concerns you, don't use TP as a protective mask.

Interesting article in Newsweek, regarding USA

https://www.newsweek.com/robert-reich-c ... on-1492832

What will make USA and the rest of Americas avoid recession if people cannot work?

Who will pay for the poor people needing health care?

Will people go sick to work even if they show sympoms because they cannot afford to stay home?

My local CVS finally decided to stop the "Toilet Paper Wars" and announced that you can only buy one pack per day, not clean out the entire aisle.

mham001 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Cute. Everybody else can make tests available, but the US admin can´t. Its not like the current admin made a decision *not* to use the WHO gold standard test, and task the CDC instead that initially failed making one... or that the pandemic response team was canned.......

He understands its a bad time for him to get fired, so why confirm that Trump has broken a ton of eggs.

Once again Tommy - wrong. You should stick to worrying about your own because you do not understand what really goes on 5,000 miles away in a country n which you have only spent a few days.

Biden falsely says Trump administration rejected WHO coronavirus test kits (that were never offered)
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ejected-w/

According to interviews with several infectious disease experts, Biden’s statement leaves out key context regarding how different countries decided on which test they’d use to identify the presence of the coronavirus.

WHO lists seven different approaches — including that of China, the United States, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, France and Germany — each one targeting different parts of the COVID-19 genetic profile.

Christopher Mores, a global health professor at George Washington University, said that when faced with an outbreak, the WHO will usually adopt the best test that a research group brings forward.

The German one became the approach WHO circulated as its preferred model.

Aid groups, such as the Pan American Health Organization, took that model and built their training and supplies around it. If the model was like the recipe in a cookbook, the supplies were the ingredients in a home meal kit from Blue Apron.

The countries WHO helped are ones that lack the virology lab horsepower that exists across the United States. The outreach work by the Pan American Health Organization is a case in point.

"No discussions occurred between WHO and CDC about WHO providing COVID-19 tests to the United States," said WHO spokeswoman Margaret Harris. "This is consistent with experience since the United States does not ordinarily rely on WHO for reagents or diagnostic tests because of sufficient domestic capacity."

Any country could use whatever recipe it preferred, and even if the United States had picked the WHO’s protocol, it wouldn’t need the WHO to sell it the materials to follow it. Germany released its protocol on Jan. 17, but the U.S. decided to have the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention develop its own. That protocol was published Jan. 28. .....

....The CDC’s test was different and more complicated than the German test. It worked in the CDC lab, but when the materials went out to state labs, some of them got inconsistent results. The CDC had to resend packages with new chemical reagents.

State laboratories started developing their own tests and were ready to use them, but had to wait for emergency approval from the Food and Drug Administration. All of this added up to a delay in testing capabilities which resulted in fewer Americans being tested and an overall slower U.S. response compared to other countries............

Let's sum up: the WHO gold standard test was available to the USA free of charge on January 17th.

your own source wrote:

All of this added up to a delay in testing capabilities which resulted in fewer Americans being tested and an overall slower U.S. response compared to other countries............

try to understand what it debunks, and what it doesn't debunk.

It does not debunk that the current US admin made the decision not to use the WHO gold standard test.

Best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

mham001 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Cute. Everybody else can make tests available, but the US admin can´t. Its not like the current admin made a decision *not* to use the WHO gold standard test, and task the CDC instead that initially failed making one... or that the pandemic response team was canned.......

He understands its a bad time for him to get fired, so why confirm that Trump has broken a ton of eggs.

Once again Tommy - wrong. You should stick to worrying about your own because you do not understand what really goes on 5,000 miles away in a country n which you have only spent a few days.

Biden falsely says Trump administration rejected WHO coronavirus test kits (that were never offered)
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ejected-w/

According to interviews with several infectious disease experts, Biden’s statement leaves out key context regarding how different countries decided on which test they’d use to identify the presence of the coronavirus.

WHO lists seven different approaches — including that of China, the United States, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, France and Germany — each one targeting different parts of the COVID-19 genetic profile.

Christopher Mores, a global health professor at George Washington University, said that when faced with an outbreak, the WHO will usually adopt the best test that a research group brings forward.

The German one became the approach WHO circulated as its preferred model.

Aid groups, such as the Pan American Health Organization, took that model and built their training and supplies around it. If the model was like the recipe in a cookbook, the supplies were the ingredients in a home meal kit from Blue Apron.

The countries WHO helped are ones that lack the virology lab horsepower that exists across the United States. The outreach work by the Pan American Health Organization is a case in point.

"No discussions occurred between WHO and CDC about WHO providing COVID-19 tests to the United States," said WHO spokeswoman Margaret Harris. "This is consistent with experience since the United States does not ordinarily rely on WHO for reagents or diagnostic tests because of sufficient domestic capacity."

Any country could use whatever recipe it preferred, and even if the United States had picked the WHO’s protocol, it wouldn’t need the WHO to sell it the materials to follow it. Germany released its protocol on Jan. 17, but the U.S. decided to have the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention develop its own. That protocol was published Jan. 28. .....

....The CDC’s test was different and more complicated than the German test. It worked in the CDC lab, but when the materials went out to state labs, some of them got inconsistent results. The CDC had to resend packages with new chemical reagents.

State laboratories started developing their own tests and were ready to use them, but had to wait for emergency approval from the Food and Drug Administration. All of this added up to a delay in testing capabilities which resulted in fewer Americans being tested and an overall slower U.S. response compared to other countries............

Let's sum up: the WHO gold standard test was available to the USA free of charge on January 17th.

your own source wrote:

All of this added up to a delay in testing capabilities which resulted in fewer Americans being tested and an overall slower U.S. response compared to other countries............

try to understand what it debunks, and what it doesn't debunk.

It does not debunk that the current US admin made the decision not to use the WHO gold standard test.

Best regards
Thomas

Is it true that the test was throwing 40% false positives?

PixelPilot wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

mham001 wrote:

Once again Tommy - wrong. You should stick to worrying about your own because you do not understand what really goes on 5,000 miles away in a country n which you have only spent a few days.

Biden falsely says Trump administration rejected WHO coronavirus test kits (that were never offered)
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... ejected-w/

According to interviews with several infectious disease experts, Biden’s statement leaves out key context regarding how different countries decided on which test they’d use to identify the presence of the coronavirus.

WHO lists seven different approaches — including that of China, the United States, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, France and Germany — each one targeting different parts of the COVID-19 genetic profile.

Christopher Mores, a global health professor at George Washington University, said that when faced with an outbreak, the WHO will usually adopt the best test that a research group brings forward.

The German one became the approach WHO circulated as its preferred model.

Aid groups, such as the Pan American Health Organization, took that model and built their training and supplies around it. If the model was like the recipe in a cookbook, the supplies were the ingredients in a home meal kit from Blue Apron.

The countries WHO helped are ones that lack the virology lab horsepower that exists across the United States. The outreach work by the Pan American Health Organization is a case in point.

"No discussions occurred between WHO and CDC about WHO providing COVID-19 tests to the United States," said WHO spokeswoman Margaret Harris. "This is consistent with experience since the United States does not ordinarily rely on WHO for reagents or diagnostic tests because of sufficient domestic capacity."

Any country could use whatever recipe it preferred, and even if the United States had picked the WHO’s protocol, it wouldn’t need the WHO to sell it the materials to follow it. Germany released its protocol on Jan. 17, but the U.S. decided to have the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention develop its own. That protocol was published Jan. 28. .....

....The CDC’s test was different and more complicated than the German test. It worked in the CDC lab, but when the materials went out to state labs, some of them got inconsistent results. The CDC had to resend packages with new chemical reagents.

State laboratories started developing their own tests and were ready to use them, but had to wait for emergency approval from the Food and Drug Administration. All of this added up to a delay in testing capabilities which resulted in fewer Americans being tested and an overall slower U.S. response compared to other countries............

Let's sum up: the WHO gold standard test was available to the USA free of charge on January 17th.

your own source wrote:

All of this added up to a delay in testing capabilities which resulted in fewer Americans being tested and an overall slower U.S. response compared to other countries............

try to understand what it debunks, and what it doesn't debunk.

It does not debunk that the current US admin made the decision not to use the WHO gold standard test.

Best regards
Thomas

Is it true that the test was throwing 40% false positives?

I think i did read 47%, but i didn't bother to check how good the source is.

Best regards
Thomas