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scbriml
Posts: 19097
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:46 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
The government only has so much cash till they will eventually run out if they do the same to all businesses?


The government just prints more money. America was projected to have a deficit of nearly 11 Trillion dollars from 2009 through this year. What real difference will it make to add a couple more trillion to that?


You do that to the detriment of inflation, then what ever you have will lose value.


So why hasn’t running such a huge deficit caused rampant inflation today? Wouldn’t you rather spend trillions on your own citizens rather than on pointless wars?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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AirWorthy99
Posts: 1092
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:52 pm

scbriml wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

The government just prints more money. America was projected to have a deficit of nearly 11 Trillion dollars from 2009 through this year. What real difference will it make to add a couple more trillion to that?


You do that to the detriment of inflation, then what ever you have will lose value.


So why hasn’t running such a huge deficit caused rampant inflation today? Wouldn’t you rather spend trillions on your own citizens rather than on pointless wars?


This is different, the economy is collapsing and printing money while that happens is not the same as running deficits to fund wars while the economy is ok is another story.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
tommy1808
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:23 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Terrible - after claiming he ‘didn’t know about it’, video now confirms 45 commented on cutting an established pandemic response team in 2018. Gotta take responsibility now.


Didnt he just the other day claim he knew about the pandemic months ago, before anyone was calling it a pandemic?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/us/p ... virus.html

If one needed any more proof that even the hardest Trump fan doesn't believe a word Trump says, it's the fact that he can say "yup, saw it coming month ago.... but I did nothing about it and decided to let it run an go rampant and kill our citizens", and no one is outraged.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:38 pm

Any news about potential life saving drugs? If chloroquine works so well, why don't we hear more about it?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:41 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Any news about potential life saving drugs? If chloroquine works so well, why don't we hear more about it?


No clinical trials with definitive results yet.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:43 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Any news about potential life saving drugs? If chloroquine works so well, why don't we hear more about it?


No clinical trials with definitive results yet.


Any indication when those trials should be completed?
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:31 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Don't know, if this trend in infections increases in the US, what would the point be of locking down and 'social distancing'? while thousands get infected, millions lose their jobs. If this keeps up till next week, we will have to question all of this.

IN general this is a socialist wet dream, government telling private enterprise to stop working, government using tax payer money to keep businesses afloat and people with paychecks.

Don't like where this is going, what would the point be of doing all of this saving a few hundred or thousands of lives that would have died nonetheless with the flu at the expense of destroying all the hard work that has cost workers and entrepreneurs years if not decades.

The US federal government needs to come clear on what the plans are soon.


'What would be the point?' is a very low information question at this point. There is NOTHING political about what Drs. Fauci and Brix have advised the WH to do.

The science is simple - social distancing is IMPERATIVE to buy time, slow spreading of infections, and give the healthcare system a chance to keep up. Without it, the economic damage would be immense as the healthcare system would become overwhelmed indefinitely. The entire purpose is to reduce the spread down from exponential growth to arithmetic growth, and eventually, a plateau we can recover from until a vaccine is ready.

Here, so simple a child can understand:

Image

Case in point from spanish flu in 1918 - Philadelphia didn't implement controls, and St. Louis did. The difference in death rates was staggering:

Image

Unfortunately, I have a feeling the dotted line is below the tops of both curves and isn't really rising much while we are in lockdown.

Like I said, communication from the administration has been poor. What specifically is being done now to increase ICU capacity? How many more ventilators are we importing or producing? What is the projected "peak of the curve" and is our ICU capacity going to be able to handle it? Can it handle a second spike worst-case scenario next fall without going into lockdown again?

Without these answers, people are going to question whether this lockdown is worth it or if we should just let everyone die off now (if they're gonna die anyway, why not now instead of destroying the economy too?) And if there is uncertainty whether we can handle a secondary or tertiary spike, the economy is going to limp towards recovery at best, crash again at worst.

The fact that many people (on both sides of the political spectrum from what I've personally seen) still don't understand the flattening of the curve and why we're doing what we are doing (in the broadest sense) shows how bad the communication is

So sure, we can give Trump credit for a few of the things he did. Mostly, it was too little too late. I have no problem praising what he does right... He's standing on a stool (what he did right) in a giant pit (what he did wrong) and has a long way to go. And who knows, maybe he's taking the steps necessary to overcome this... but who knows? He's not telling anyone besides his usual vague remarks. I just hope the right people are doing the right things or all we are doing is wasting our time



I see what you mean about the communication.
The fact is that the US government is preparing for it, but at the same time they are doing it in their pants because they are seeing real projections that me and you will never get to see...
Trump's reaction to the NBC journalist's says it all. That answer is pure fear. Trump wants to be an optimist and keep the country optimistic because the US is headed for big big problems.
I think that Trump has even stopped caring about being reelected. I mean sure, he wants to be reelected, but that's background noise for now, he doesn't want to fail.
For Trump, this is like the day before his big exam and he doesn't know what to expect. He's probably working day and night to prepare for it and he frankly seems to know everything there is to know about it, but he also realises that inevitably many Americans are going to die and that that will be a big dark spot on his legacy.
The fact is that this thing has the power to overwhelm any country very easily.
Trump also has to deal with a lot of media criticism, he has to explain five times why they're closing the Mexican border for Covid19, as much as their Canadian border.

For the rest, Americans can see for themselves what this is doing in Italy.
While staying home, take care of your loved ones, let others know how you're doing, ask how others are doing. Read. Reflect on what is important. (Macron).
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:36 pm

Italy has announced 793 deaths, 6557 new infections in the past 24 hours.

https://www.corriere.it/salute/malattie ... 8720.shtml

In Italy there are worries that this is starting to spread in Milan and that as much as 40% of people are staying mobile despite lockdown measures, too many people are out in the streets and not taking it seriously.
Politicians are now calling for a total lockdown.

Source https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_mar ... 8720.shtml
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:28 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Italy has announced 793 deaths, 6557 new infections in the past 24 hours.

https://www.corriere.it/salute/malattie ... 8720.shtml

In Italy there are worries that this is starting to spread in Milan and that as much as 40% of people are staying mobile despite lockdown measures, too many people are out in the streets and not taking it seriously.
Politicians are now calling for a total lockdown.

Source https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_mar ... 8720.shtml


It seems that all the government efforts to keep people locked down is not working in Italy, nor Spain for that matter.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:31 pm

Just saw the press conference from the WH, they said they had tested more than 195 thousand people. Yesterday they tested 50,000 people. Testing has ramped up significantly. They have just said the FDA approved a test that would give results in 45 minutes.

So right now the US has 20,000 or so positives out of testing around 200,000 so basically testing has become more aggressive, which is I think positive.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
aaden
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:01 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Italy has announced 793 deaths, 6557 new infections in the past 24 hours.

https://www.corriere.it/salute/malattie ... 8720.shtml

In Italy there are worries that this is starting to spread in Milan and that as much as 40% of people are staying mobile despite lockdown measures, too many people are out in the streets and not taking it seriously.
Politicians are now calling for a total lockdown.

Source https://www.corriere.it/cronache/20_mar ... 8720.shtml


It seems that all the government efforts to keep people locked down is not working in Italy, nor Spain for that matter.



It will be unlikely to work anywhere in my opinion. I live in the US for example, the beaches were packed for spring break. Containment certainly was not heeded.
 
mham001
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:00 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Any news about potential life saving drugs? If chloroquine works so well, why don't we hear more about it?


Because the FDA already said it will take year of trials.
 
mham001
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:02 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Just saw the press conference from the WH, they said they had tested more than 195 thousand people. Yesterday they tested 50,000 people. Testing has ramped up significantly. They have just said the FDA approved a test that would give results in 45 minutes.

So right now the US has 20,000 or so positives out of testing around 200,000 so basically testing has become more aggressive, which is I think positive.


I have been following that, day before was 35,000. I noticed that the percentage of Positives has remained about 10-11% even as testing ramped up. Not sure what to make of that.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:08 pm

mham001 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Just saw the press conference from the WH, they said they had tested more than 195 thousand people. Yesterday they tested 50,000 people. Testing has ramped up significantly. They have just said the FDA approved a test that would give results in 45 minutes.

So right now the US has 20,000 or so positives out of testing around 200,000 so basically testing has become more aggressive, which is I think positive.


I have been following that, day before was 35,000. I noticed that the percentage of Positives has remained about 10-11% even as testing ramped up. Not sure what to make of that.


To me it seems that the aggressive testing can be great in order to get this country back to normalcy. After this 'social distancing' period is over I hope:

1-Test as much as you can, send them to isolate if positive.
2-Self quarantine those with symptoms who haven't been tested and most at risk.
3-Have the population not infected to be exercise extreme caution.
4- Prohibit mass gatherings (stadiums)

Get this country back to work. We can't be held hostage for less than 1% of the population and destroy this economy.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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lugie
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:21 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
It seems that all the government efforts to keep people locked down is not working in Italy, nor Spain for that matter.




I think in the case of Spain it's too early to make that call, they only implemented their lockdown about a week ago so it should probably take about 3-7 more days until results become visible.

Those new numbers from Italy are disconcerting though, as they're pushing 2 weeks of lockdown now and the number of daily new infections has increased yet again.
Now, there's a chance that it may be a result of them testing more aggressively (assume they used to test 5,000 people a day yielding 2,500 new infections but now they're testing 20,000 daily yielding 6,000 new infections, which would be a relative decrease in new infections) but I haven't found more detailed information on that so I'm definitely a bit concerned.

I can't believe the FDA is expecting a 1-year approval period for chloroquine... The trials that have been done all looked very promising in providing fast and effective relief for COVID-19 patients, and the drug is already in use (so we know it's safe) - is there no way to fast-track the process massively or even just administer it without FDA approval?
If it really is so effective we would doing a disservice to those sick, those working overtime in hospitals and last but not least the worldwide economy by not going ahead and using it on a massive scale to stomp out the virus.
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Dieuwer
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:28 pm

Speaking about politicians who might use the Coronavirus Pandemic for their own ambitions...Viktor Orban, the PM of Hungary now seeks "unlimited powers" for an "unlimited time":

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... virus-bill
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL8N2BE0U2

Hungary’s government asked lawmakers to extend a state of emergency indefinitely amid the coronavirus crisis and introduce prison sentences for those deemed to be spreading false information.
 
KFTG
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:09 pm

Bail out everyone. Except tobacco companies.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:29 pm

Also I see every day UK authorities talking about an antibody test to know if you have had the virus and are now immune, but nobody else is talking about this. Is it easy to develop ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:15 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:

In Italy there are worries that this is starting to spread in Milan and that as much as 40% of people are staying mobile despite lockdown measures, too many people are out in the streets and not taking it seriously.



Same with NY, 11K+ cases now as of 3/21/20 and social media if full of defiants from all generations partying like its 1999.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:28 pm

santi319 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Dahlgardo wrote:

It's not all doom and gloom.

The possible positive impact of Chloroquine on covid19 patients could mean that we could get over self-isolation and society shutdown a lot quicker than else feared.

I'm actually becoming more optimitic about the outcome of this crisis, but it's still early days with regard to covid-19 treatment.


Good luck finding chloroquine right now.

Hydroxychloroquine And Azithrimycin are not widely available? Source?


Wtf does Azithromycin, an antibiotic, have to do with anything? And why do I need to source a statement as plain as "the sky is blue". Of course the world is rushing on chloroquine in a way the supply can't support.

https://www.modernhealthcare.com/supply ... s-buy-bulk

Also hydroxychloroquine is not the same thing, but is also being rushed on. Covered in that same article.

Pharmacists and patients who need these drugs are already complaining the wholesalers are on backorder due to this. There are people who need these drugs, you know. Kind of like the HIV meds.
情報
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:31 pm

Schumer on CNN was saying bailouts will come with worker protections, that will not be acceptable to many corporations.

Unlike the 2008 GFC, US Corporations are loaded with cash, the world has $$Trillions of liquidity, and there is no liquidity crisis. The issue is consumer discretionary spending is near ZERO. If this continues for too long spending power will go down.

So they will layoff and cut their losses than take the bailout and keep employees.even for the short term.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:44 pm

lugie wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
It seems that all the government efforts to keep people locked down is not working in Italy, nor Spain for that matter.




I think in the case of Spain it's too early to make that call, they only implemented their lockdown about a week ago so it should probably take about 3-7 more days until results become visible.

Those new numbers from Italy are disconcerting though, as they're pushing 2 weeks of lockdown now and the number of daily new infections has increased yet again.
Now, there's a chance that it may be a result of them testing more aggressively (assume they used to test 5,000 people a day yielding 2,500 new infections but now they're testing 20,000 daily yielding 6,000 new infections, which would be a relative decrease in new infections) but I haven't found more detailed information on that so I'm definitely a bit concerned.

I can't believe the FDA is expecting a 1-year approval period for chloroquine... The trials that have been done all looked very promising in providing fast and effective relief for COVID-19 patients, and the drug is already in use (so we know it's safe) - is there no way to fast-track the process massively or even just administer it without FDA approval?
If it really is so effective we would doing a disservice to those sick, those working overtime in hospitals and last but not least the worldwide economy by not going ahead and using it on a massive scale to stomp out the virus.


I think southern European countries tend to have closer contact in their cultures between people and proper social distancing may be difficult for them to learn. IE: cheek kisses
情報
 
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Aesma
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:20 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Schumer on CNN was saying bailouts will come with worker protections, that will not be acceptable to many corporations.

Unlike the 2008 GFC, US Corporations are loaded with cash, the world has $$Trillions of liquidity, and there is no liquidity crisis. The issue is consumer discretionary spending is near ZERO. If this continues for too long spending power will go down.

So they will layoff and cut their losses than take the bailout and keep employees.even for the short term.


And laying off people will help discretionary spending how, exactly ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:34 am

lugie wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
I




I can't believe the FDA is expecting a 1-year approval period for chloroquine... The trials that have been done all looked very promising in providing fast and effective relief for COVID-19 patients, and the drug is already in use (so we know it's safe) - is there no way to fast-track the process massively or even just administer it without FDA approval?
If it really is so effective we would doing a disservice to those sick, those working overtime in hospitals and last but not least the worldwide economy by not going ahead and using it on a massive scale to stomp out the virus.



what are you talking about? chloroquine is already approved by FDA . there is no cure for coronavirus with JUST chloroquine. the FDA is looking at a cocktail of drugs to be used with chloroquine
 
kalvado
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:39 am

Aesma wrote:
Also I see every day UK authorities talking about an antibody test to know if you have had the virus and are now immune, but nobody else is talking about this. Is it easy to develop ?

China started printing those in 100s K a day a few weeks ago
FDA was bent over to squeeze a stamp of approval a day or two ago. Expect those reaching hospitals within another 2 weeks.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:48 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Schumer on CNN was saying bailouts will come with worker protections, that will not be acceptable to many corporations.

Unlike the 2008 GFC, US Corporations are loaded with cash, the world has $$Trillions of liquidity, and there is no liquidity crisis. The issue is consumer discretionary spending is near ZERO. If this continues for too long spending power will go down.

So they will layoff and cut their losses than take the bailout and keep employees.even for the short term.

I hope this doesn't get political. We have rare bipartisanship right now but if each side tries to sneak something in, nothing will pass

We need to lay politics aside... That means passing these things as one time measures. If we start throwing in permanent changes it's gonna be "the Dems are loading it up with pork" and "the heartless Republicans don't care about people and shot down the bill." The usual BS nonsense we can't afford right now
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8338
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:51 am

Aesma wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Schumer on CNN was saying bailouts will come with worker protections, that will not be acceptable to many corporations.

Unlike the 2008 GFC, US Corporations are loaded with cash, the world has $$Trillions of liquidity, and there is no liquidity crisis. The issue is consumer discretionary spending is near ZERO. If this continues for too long spending power will go down.

So they will layoff and cut their losses than take the bailout and keep employees.even for the short term.


And laying off people will help discretionary spending how, exactly ?


A typical American corp management thinks any company cut to its barebones will be picked up by another company or private equity through Chapter 11. They never worry about growing that company back to size. All they need is their golden parachute.

The unknown at present is who will claim the spoils. Private Equity seems to be severely hurt.

We are in QE5, it is unknown how many trillions of dollars banks are hoarding, Starting from Obama days, they never lend anyone in need, just cash under the mattress. Had they lend using all QEs post GFC2008, recovery wouldn't have been that shallow.
All posts are just opinions.
 
cpd
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:49 am

Alan Jones says that Coronavirus is the health version of "climate change"

https://www.smh.com.au/national/alan-jo ... 54c9u.html

“We now seem to be facing the health version of global warming,”
“Exaggeration in almost everything.”


The authority has spoken. Thoughts? It must be said that he is broadcasting from his isolated private retreat, well away from everyone else. Why would that be?
 
FTMCPIUS
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:50 am

KFTG wrote:
Bail out everyone. Except tobacco companies.

And the casinos.
 
speedking
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:54 am

Government? When there is no more food, the people start looting others. If you are prepared, they provide a good source of protein.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:41 am

As I understand it, this virus will keep coming back until we develop a vaccine. Meaning 3-6 weeks quarantines, then 3-6 weeks opening up, and then quarantines again.

We're now in the steep part of the exponential curve:

Coronavirus pandemic:

From 0 to 100,000 cases: 110 days

From 100,000 to 200,000 cases: 12 days

From 200,000 to 300,000 cases: 3 days


https://twitter.com/NorbertElekes/statu ... 90690?s=20
 
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Tugger
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:50 am

When you get COVID19 and survive, do you gain immunity since your immune system has obviously defeated it and is primed?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:40 am

Tugger wrote:
When you get COVID19 and survive, do you gain immunity since your immune system has obviously defeated it and is primed?

Tugg


Not enough data to conclusively say, especially with active strains of differing virulence. There were reports of reinfection in Japan and China, but there has been no formalized study process to determine if those are legitimate reinfections or testing/reporting errors.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:46 am

DocLightning wrote:
JetBuddy wrote:
I have one question: Am I understanding it correctly that I should not be very worried if I have hypertension and take Candesartan daily? I also have asthma and use Ventoline. I am being extra cautious these days and have self quarantined myself for a week now.


In and of itself, having hypertension is likely a risk. That said, you do not have to worry that candesartan will make it worse and you should continue to scrupulously control your blood pressure.

Asthma does not appear to be a risk. And there are immunological reasons why I suspect that might be, but they are highly technical and I don't want to offer anyone false reassurance.


Thank you for taking the time to answer. I appreciate it very much. Good luck out there and stay safe.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13134
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:12 am

Jouhou wrote:
lugie wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
It seems that all the government efforts to keep people locked down is not working in Italy, nor Spain for that matter.




I think in the case of Spain it's too early to make that call, they only implemented their lockdown about a week ago so it should probably take about 3-7 more days until results become visible.

Those new numbers from Italy are disconcerting though, as they're pushing 2 weeks of lockdown now and the number of daily new infections has increased yet again.
Now, there's a chance that it may be a result of them testing more aggressively (assume they used to test 5,000 people a day yielding 2,500 new infections but now they're testing 20,000 daily yielding 6,000 new infections, which would be a relative decrease in new infections) but I haven't found more detailed information on that so I'm definitely a bit concerned.

I can't believe the FDA is expecting a 1-year approval period for chloroquine... The trials that have been done all looked very promising in providing fast and effective relief for COVID-19 patients, and the drug is already in use (so we know it's safe) - is there no way to fast-track the process massively or even just administer it without FDA approval?
If it really is so effective we would doing a disservice to those sick, those working overtime in hospitals and last but not least the worldwide economy by not going ahead and using it on a massive scale to stomp out the virus.


I think southern European countries tend to have closer contact in their cultures between people and proper social distancing may be difficult for them to learn. IE: cheek kisses


That, and the lockdown isn't 2 weeks old, so new infections aren't new, but lots of cases are now old enough to lose the fight. Number of infected day over day is down, death is up.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:19 am

cpd wrote:
Alan Jones says that Coronavirus is the health version of "climate change"

https://www.smh.com.au/national/alan-jo ... 54c9u.html

“We now seem to be facing the health version of global warming,”
“Exaggeration in almost everything.”


The authority has spoken. Thoughts? It must be said that he is broadcasting from his isolated private retreat, well away from everyone else. Why would that be?


Same reason no one ever took my climate change bet. They don't believe what they say.

Dieuwer wrote:
Speaking about politicians who might use the Coronavirus Pandemic for their own ambitions...Viktor Orban, the PM of Hungary now seeks "unlimited powers" for an "unlimited time":

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... virus-bill
https://www.reuters.com/article/health- ... SL8N2BE0U2

Hungary’s government asked lawmakers to extend a state of emergency indefinitely amid the coronavirus crisis and introduce prison sentences for those deemed to be spreading false information.


No surprise there, Orban even became a human trafficker when.it served him, letting an pandemic run wild in his country to get what he wants would be no surprise.

Dieuwer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Any news about potential life saving drugs? If chloroquine works so well, why don't we hear more about it?


No clinical trials with definitive results yet.


Any indication when those trials should be completed?


No one knows, the "news" is just made up though.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
A101
Posts: 2061
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:27 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:04 am

cpd wrote:
Alan Jones says that Coronavirus is the health version of "climate change"

https://www.smh.com.au/national/alan-jo ... 54c9u.html

“We now seem to be facing the health version of global warming,”
“Exaggeration in almost everything.”


The authority has spoken. Thoughts? It must be said that he is broadcasting from his isolated private retreat, well away from everyone else. Why would that be?



It looks like a majority of the states are closing its borders within Australia, anyone entering South Australia from 1600 ACDT police will be manning check points anyone entering must provide the details of where they are staying. Victoria is doing the same over the next 48hrs and most likely New South Wales will follow suit

AFL has just cancelled the footy season see what happens in the NRL soon I guess
 
melpax
Posts: 2047
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:15 am

A101 wrote:

AFL has just cancelled the footy season see what happens in the NRL soon I guess


Footy season isn't cancelled, but suspended until end of May at this stage......
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1482
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:27 am

JetBuddy wrote:
As I understand it, this virus will keep coming back until we develop a vaccine. Meaning 3-6 weeks quarantines, then 3-6 weeks opening up, and then quarantines again.

We're now in the steep part of the exponential curve:

Coronavirus pandemic:

From 0 to 100,000 cases: 110 days

From 100,000 to 200,000 cases: 12 days

From 200,000 to 300,000 cases: 3 days


https://twitter.com/NorbertElekes/statu ... 90690?s=20


who is this guy, he's saying the US now has more cases than any other country?
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:26 am

Dutch minister of health resigned after collapsing of fatigue during a hearing concerning Coronavirus in the chamber.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOYwGtSKIL4

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/03/d ... -collapse/


Tough times for politicians too.
 
Derico
Posts: 4410
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:43 am

So it's time to admit it: Western people (as opposed to Asians), it appears are just not culturally capable of self-restraint in the same manner that made the lockdowns work in Asia. At least Southern Europeans are not. Jury still out on northerners I guess. I simply don't comprehend how is it hard not to see that 21 days of strict quarantine are far better than 100 days of a mushy mess.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19097
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:52 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

You do that to the detriment of inflation, then what ever you have will lose value.


So why hasn’t running such a huge deficit caused rampant inflation today? Wouldn’t you rather spend trillions on your own citizens rather than on pointless wars?


This is different, the economy is collapsing and printing money while that happens is not the same as running deficits to fund wars while the economy is ok is another story.


So would you?

Anyway, Trump says everything will soon be back to normal soon.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
AeroVega
Posts: 284
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:32 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:10 am

Derico wrote:
So it's time to admit it: Western people (as opposed to Asians), it appears are just not culturally capable of self-restraint in the same manner that made the lockdowns work in Asia. At least Southern Europeans are not. Jury still out on northerners I guess. I simply don't comprehend how is it hard not to see that 21 days of strict quarantine are far better than 100 days of a mushy mess.


I see the same non-restraint in Northern Europe where I live. Assuming my local politicians have eyes too I do not understand why they allow non-essential stores to stay open.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:25 am

scbriml wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
scbriml wrote:

So why hasn’t running such a huge deficit caused rampant inflation today? Wouldn’t you rather spend trillions on your own citizens rather than on pointless wars?


This is different, the economy is collapsing and printing money while that happens is not the same as running deficits to fund wars while the economy is ok is another story.


So would you?

Anyway, Trump says everything will soon be back to normal soon.


... after all, the number of infected is zero or close to already!

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:29 am

AeroVega wrote:
Derico wrote:
So it's time to admit it: Western people (as opposed to Asians), it appears are just not culturally capable of self-restraint in the same manner that made the lockdowns work in Asia. At least Southern Europeans are not. Jury still out on northerners I guess. I simply don't comprehend how is it hard not to see that 21 days of strict quarantine are far better than 100 days of a mushy mess.


I see the same non-restraint in Northern Europe where I live. Assuming my local politicians have eyes too I do not understand why they allow non-essential stores to stay open.


My guess: managing the virus at the highest level the healthcare system can cope with. It's kinda odd that Germany would reach the limit of ICU surge capacity two weeks from now if nothing is done.... and the restrictions are getting tighter.....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
melpax
Posts: 2047
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:11 am

Australian PM just announced all Pubs, cinemas, nighclubs, churches, casinos & gyms must close as of 12PM tomorrow (Monday). All restaurants & cafes can only operate on a takeaway & delivery basis. Victoria & New South Wales earlier announced all 'non-essential' businesses to close within 48 hours, with both states starting the Easter school holidays earlier, from Tuesday. The PM has also given schoolchildren a spray, basically telling them to stay home over the school holidays.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/healt ... c1fc2a897f
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
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mad99
Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:36 am

Why are people saying that Spain is not respecting the lockdown?

Here in Madrid it’s empty, at least from what I can see from my window
 
Derico
Posts: 4410
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 1999 9:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:45 am

I can only go with what the media is saying. They are saying in Italy and the US there is massive violations. Paris and England as well.

Spain haven't heard much yet. But a couple of Spanish tourists did "escape" the quarantine in Argentina and now have an international capture order. I'd be interesting if Spain deports them.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
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par13del
Posts: 10325
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:04 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:

To me it seems that the aggressive testing can be great in order to get this country back to normalcy. After this 'social distancing' period is over I hope:

1-Test as much as you can, send them to isolate if positive.
2-Self quarantine those with symptoms who haven't been tested and most at risk.
3-Have the population not infected to be exercise extreme caution.
4- Prohibit mass gatherings (stadiums)

Get this country back to work. We can't be held hostage for less than 1% of the population and destroy this economy.

Testing people gives hard numbers that one can compare to other regions, countries etc., however, I have questions.
When someone test negative, what do they do, go home to self isolate or do they go back to their family and friends where potentially one of them is infected?
If we test medical personnel - say Ambulance staff - when they arrive at work and they are negative, do we test them every day to ensure that they are still negative and did not pick up the infection during the course of their duties? What is the value of drive thru testing, unless you take your entire family and you self isolate after a negative test, what is the value of knowing you are negative when you "socialize" with others, it does not protect you, you can only do your best to protect yourself.

So we have a lot of testing numbers, Europeans are / were critical of the USA initial low testing numbers, now that they are increasing how is this helping to isolate communities, prevent shut downs of entire towns, how did it help Europe, Italy in particular?

In my opinion, testing is valuable when symptoms present, unfortunately unless a lock down is in place, it is very difficult to do a forensic analysis of the places and persons the infected individual was in contact, and even when done, one can imagine the effort involved in trying to contact all those individuals and do the same analysis on each one, if you think about it, the effort is enormous requiring a lot of resources.

We have 4 confirmed cases in the Bahamas, the initial patient had not traveled for 20 days prior, investigations revealed that they were infected by family members who had traveled, returned home then traveled again. In time when the numbers are crunched, it would be interesting to see if the world would have been better off with quarantines in place versus flying persons back home to be with their families.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 13124
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:48 pm

In France the initial phase was a strict quarantine for anyone potentially exposed (in China), then tests during the quarantine.

Once the virus was out of hand, testing was only done on people needing hospitalization, so the numbers don't mean much. On a French forum I frequent, several people are ill at home, pretty sure to have it, but no testing has been done.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

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