emperortk wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

emperortk wrote:

Do you have a source for this, or are you just making it up? And by source, I mean some kind of public statement from WHO that says coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person.

"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China,"

https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-hea ... oronavirus

Help me out here. I'm still looking for the part that says "coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person" as you stated was claimed by WHO.

All I see is a statement about the lack of evidence for such having occurred. There is plenty to fault China and the WHO for, but your statement is a mischaracterization of what was said.

AirWorthy99 wrote:

emperortk wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-hea ... oronavirus

Help me out here. I'm still looking for the part that says "coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person" as you stated was claimed by WHO.

All I see is a statement about the lack of evidence for such having occurred. There is plenty to fault China and the WHO for, but your statement is a mischaracterization of what was said.

I see you are more preoccupied with the way I worded my statement, yet dismiss the entire and misleading statement the WHO and China said at that time, that probably costed many lives. Mines is a 'mis-characterization' according to you, which is not, its what they said and is a total and horrible way of dis-informing and lying to millions if not billions of people. Lets see how many people got hurt with my statement? zero but perhaps many egos did. Sorry if I offended the WHO or China, but they f...ing deserve it.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Aesma wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

If the US GDP falls by 20% (a common forecast), that’s $4 trillion, not to mention the human costs of lost employment, savings etc. The government uses $10 million as the value of a human life for policy making decisions, when tested in studies individuals value themselves at half that. We have to save 400,000 to 800,000 lives to make the numbers work. That’s save, not total deaths but deaths that don’t occur because of the quarantine measures.

Today the death total is 346.

I was waiting for this. Since it seems for some all that matters is money, well it turns out the value of someone is also in money, and it's a big number. So hurting the economy to save many people might be worth it after all.

Hurt the economic, maybe; destroy it, certainly not. A depression induced to save lives will cause deaths too. Increased suicides, social violence, substance abuse, loss of education opportunities. Nothing is free, everything has an opportunity cost. The present hit to the US economy alone will require saving 400,000 lives that could be directly attributed, not merely contributory, to COVID-19. Will there even be a total of 400,000 COVID deaths?

stl07 wrote:

https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch

Waterbomber2 wrote:

T4thH wrote:

Some good news from Germany. The spread of Coronavirus seems to slow down in Germany. So the high number of tests performed (and high number of early identified cases), the first measurements to slow it and of course, that many/most people were more careful, (like regular wash your hands, stay in some distance to others e.g.) seems to do the job, to slow it (not to solve it).
https://www.businessinsider.de/wissenschaft/coronavirus-infektionen-anstieg-verlangsamt-deutschland/

Still in comparison to the identified total number of cases low number of death (just as so many have been Coronavirus cases have been identified by the tests), compared to other countries....

It seems, the healthcare system in Germany will not break down as Germany has additional far the highest total number and number/100.000 of intensive care beds without and with ventilators in Europe and up to the highest in the world. It was in 2017: 28.000 (34/100.000) intensive care, of them 25.000 (28/100.000) with ventilators. All intensive care beds without have been now upgraded and many thousands new intensive care beds with ventilators have been assembled at hospitals (and 10.000 additional ventilators have been ordered at Dräger, to be delivered till end of this year). Additional emergency hospitals are now build in fair halls (as these are big and empty, as all fairs are cancelled) e.g., hospital staff has been re-trained for intensive care department e.g.
(For your information: US has also around 34 intensive care beds/100.000; UK has just only 6, Denmark has 6, Italy has 12 to 13, France 12, Spain 10....average in Europe is something around 13).
So Germany is well prepared now.

And to all in US; Europe has had the ski resort Ischgl in Austria and the ski resorts in northern Italy, from there the Coronavirus has spread through Europe, these were our superspreader locations in Europe with thousands coming back with Coronavirus. You will have now your Spring Break and the thousands with Coronavirus coming back.

The below is an opinion.

I'm going to burst some bubbles here: Germany is not doing well at all.
There is no significant slowdown of new cases, they are in Spain and Italy's footsteps leading the pack in number of cases, they aren't taking major precautions, they are not reporting numbers of critical patients, they have no deaths attributed to Covid19 because they are not reporting them properly.

Germany is walking a thin line between reporting the truth and keeping their industries going.
That's right, there is nothing more important to Germany than their industries, so like Japan, do not expect too much transparency until the situation is out of control.

As for having enough ICU beds available, we'll see.
This false sense of safety is very dangerous.

One explanation is also that Germany is testing more widely and detecting, isolating sooner.
But I doubt it.

Even Italy is admitting that they are underreporting Covid19 deaths, as higher mortality rates in counties are not fully accounted for by confirmed Covid19 cases, meaning that many Covid19 death are still slipping under the radar.

Giovanni Maga from CNR told Euronews that in Italy a person who tested positive while alive or post-mortem is counted as a coronavirus-death. "I don't know if Germany or France follow the same criteria," he noted.

Maga also stated that healthcare structures are rather similar in northern Italy, France and Germany, making it harder to justify such discrepancies in numbers.

He agreed with Wieler with regards to the time curve and the progression of the pandemic. "France and Germany are where Italy was at the beginning of the month. They are late in implementing measures and will get to a point where they will have a harsher level of contagion."

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/13/cor ... -19-deaths

AirWorthy99 wrote:

emperortk wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-hea ... oronavirus

Help me out here. I'm still looking for the part that says "coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person" as you stated was claimed by WHO.

All I see is a statement about the lack of evidence for such having occurred. There is plenty to fault China and the WHO for, but your statement is a mischaracterization of what was said.

I see you are more preoccupied with the way I worded my statement, yet dismiss the entire and misleading statement the WHO and China said at that time, that probably costed many lives. Mines is a 'mis-characterization' according to you, which is not, its what they said and is a total and horrible way of dis-informing and lying to millions if not billions of people. Lets see how many people got hurt with my statement? zero but perhaps many egos did. Sorry if I offended the WHO or China, but they f...ing deserve it.

T4thH wrote:

Waterbomber2 wrote:

T4thH wrote:

Some good news from Germany. The spread of Coronavirus seems to slow down in Germany. So the high number of tests performed (and high number of early identified cases), the first measurements to slow it and of course, that many/most people were more careful, (like regular wash your hands, stay in some distance to others e.g.) seems to do the job, to slow it (not to solve it).
https://www.businessinsider.de/wissenschaft/coronavirus-infektionen-anstieg-verlangsamt-deutschland/

Still in comparison to the identified total number of cases low number of death (just as so many have been Coronavirus cases have been identified by the tests), compared to other countries....

It seems, the healthcare system in Germany will not break down as Germany has additional far the highest total number and number/100.000 of intensive care beds without and with ventilators in Europe and up to the highest in the world. It was in 2017: 28.000 (34/100.000) intensive care, of them 25.000 (28/100.000) with ventilators. All intensive care beds without have been now upgraded and many thousands new intensive care beds with ventilators have been assembled at hospitals (and 10.000 additional ventilators have been ordered at Dräger, to be delivered till end of this year). Additional emergency hospitals are now build in fair halls (as these are big and empty, as all fairs are cancelled) e.g., hospital staff has been re-trained for intensive care department e.g.
(For your information: US has also around 34 intensive care beds/100.000; UK has just only 6, Denmark has 6, Italy has 12 to 13, France 12, Spain 10....average in Europe is something around 13).
So Germany is well prepared now.

And to all in US; Europe has had the ski resort Ischgl in Austria and the ski resorts in northern Italy, from there the Coronavirus has spread through Europe, these were our superspreader locations in Europe with thousands coming back with Coronavirus. You will have now your Spring Break and the thousands with Coronavirus coming back.

The below is an opinion.

I'm going to burst some bubbles here: Germany is not doing well at all.
There is no significant slowdown of new cases, they are in Spain and Italy's footsteps leading the pack in number of cases, they aren't taking major precautions, they are not reporting numbers of critical patients, they have no deaths attributed to Covid19 because they are not reporting them properly.

Germany is walking a thin line between reporting the truth and keeping their industries going.
That's right, there is nothing more important to Germany than their industries, so like Japan, do not expect too much transparency until the situation is out of control.

As for having enough ICU beds available, we'll see.
This false sense of safety is very dangerous.

One explanation is also that Germany is testing more widely and detecting, isolating sooner.
But I doubt it.

Even Italy is admitting that they are underreporting Covid19 deaths, as higher mortality rates in counties are not fully accounted for by confirmed Covid19 cases, meaning that many Covid19 death are still slipping under the radar.

Giovanni Maga from CNR told Euronews that in Italy a person who tested positive while alive or post-mortem is counted as a coronavirus-death. "I don't know if Germany or France follow the same criteria," he noted.

Maga also stated that healthcare structures are rather similar in northern Italy, France and Germany, making it harder to justify such discrepancies in numbers.

He agreed with Wieler with regards to the time curve and the progression of the pandemic. "France and Germany are where Italy was at the beginning of the month. They are late in implementing measures and will get to a point where they will have a harsher level of contagion."

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/13/cor ... -19-deaths

You like conspiracy theories, right? Sorry, I will not waste my time to discuss with believers, as I will never change your mind. This I have learned over the last decades in discussion with far left, far right, sect members, creationists e.g. in Germany, GDR e.g. ...They believe, they know, that is enough.

Just for your information, in the last 14 days, I have seen/spoken by phone with 2 university hospital professors, 4 university hospital physicians, one physician of a medical practice, around 10 nurses, MA e.g. and of course emails to many others....and in all cases I have also discussed, if and how Coronavirus can and will impact their work at their departments e.g. as this is part of my job.
As said, you believe and I know and now I will stop the discussion again in this thread. "Again" means, that it is now the second time and again I am bored and not willed to waste my time any further.

And stop.

emperortk wrote:

AirWorthy99 wrote:

emperortk wrote:

Help me out here. I'm still looking for the part that says "coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person" as you stated was claimed by WHO.

All I see is a statement about the lack of evidence for such having occurred. There is plenty to fault China and the WHO for, but your statement is a mischaracterization of what was said.

I see you are more preoccupied with the way I worded my statement, yet dismiss the entire and misleading statement the WHO and China said at that time, that probably costed many lives. Mines is a 'mis-characterization' according to you, which is not, its what they said and is a total and horrible way of dis-informing and lying to millions if not billions of people. Lets see how many people got hurt with my statement? zero but perhaps many egos did. Sorry if I offended the WHO or China, but they f...ing deserve it.

If you can't discern the difference between: 1) there is no evidence of person to person transmission and 2) the virus can't be transmitted from person to person; that's no one's fault but yours.

Aaron747 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Aesma wrote:

I was waiting for this. Since it seems for some all that matters is money, well it turns out the value of someone is also in money, and it's a big number. So hurting the economy to save many people might be worth it after all.

Hurt the economic, maybe; destroy it, certainly not. A depression induced to save lives will cause deaths too. Increased suicides, social violence, substance abuse, loss of education opportunities. Nothing is free, everything has an opportunity cost. The present hit to the US economy alone will require saving 400,000 lives that could be directly attributed, not merely contributory, to COVID-19. Will there even be a total of 400,000 COVID deaths?

Without intervention, who knows? But we owe it to our senior citizens and healthcare professionals not to have to find out.

That’s also lost in these discussions - our doctors and nurses go to work every day doing their best to help whoever they can. Is there any honor in standing in their way?

I share these questions. Our leaders are not flying completely blind: They are working off the advice of serious epidemiologists and public health experts. Yet we still need to be careful about “group think,’’ which is a natural but dangerous reaction when responding to a national and global crisis. We’re making decisions that affect the whole country and our entire economy — therefore, small errors in navigation could have huge consequences.

Either we let many of us get the coronavirus, recover and get back to work — while doing our utmost to protect those most vulnerable to being killed by it. Or, we shut down for months to try to save everyone everywhere from this virus — no matter their risk profile — and kill many people by other means, kill our economy and maybe kill our future.

Waterbomber2 wrote:

What do you say to this:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel in quarantine after doctor tests positive for coronavirus
Angela Merkel will quarantine herself at home after being treated by a doctor who has since tested positive.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -positive/

Let's hope that Mutti will be ok, because fuzzing the fatality statistics will become rather meaningless if she goes.

I won't stop to point out lack of transparency of governments in this crisis, how inconvenient that may be.
I will also highlight governments who are transparent.

Waterbomber2 wrote:

T4thH wrote:

Waterbomber2 wrote:

The below is an opinion.

I'm going to burst some bubbles here: Germany is not doing well at all.
There is no significant slowdown of new cases, they are in Spain and Italy's footsteps leading the pack in number of cases, they aren't taking major precautions, they are not reporting numbers of critical patients, they have no deaths attributed to Covid19 because they are not reporting them properly.

Germany is walking a thin line between reporting the truth and keeping their industries going.
That's right, there is nothing more important to Germany than their industries, so like Japan, do not expect too much transparency until the situation is out of control.

As for having enough ICU beds available, we'll see.
This false sense of safety is very dangerous.

One explanation is also that Germany is testing more widely and detecting, isolating sooner.
But I doubt it.

Even Italy is admitting that they are underreporting Covid19 deaths, as higher mortality rates in counties are not fully accounted for by confirmed Covid19 cases, meaning that many Covid19 death are still slipping under the radar.


https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/13/cor ... -19-deaths

You like conspiracy theories, right? Sorry, I will not waste my time to discuss with believers, as I will never change your mind. This I have learned over the last decades in discussion with far left, far right, sect members, creationists e.g. in Germany, GDR e.g. ...They believe, they know, that is enough.

Just for your information, in the last 14 days, I have seen/spoken by phone with 2 university hospital professors, 4 university hospital physicians, one physician of a medical practice, around 10 nurses, MA e.g. and of course emails to many others....and in all cases I have also discussed, if and how Coronavirus can and will impact their work at their departments e.g. as this is part of my job.
As said, you believe and I know and now I will stop the discussion again in this thread. "Again" means, that it is now the second time and again I am bored and not willed to waste my time any further.

And stop.

What do you say to this:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel in quarantine after doctor tests positive for coronavirus
Angela Merkel will quarantine herself at home after being treated by a doctor who has since tested positive.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -positive/

Let's hope that Mutti will be ok, because fuzzing the fatality statistics will become rather meaningless if she goes.

I won't stop to point out lack of transparency of governments in this crisis, how inconvenient that may be.
I will also highlight governments who are transparent.

BlueberryWheats wrote:

stl07 wrote:

https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch

Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?

BlueberryWheats wrote:

stl07 wrote:

https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch

Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?

theaviator380 wrote:

Links:

News snippet:
https://vdare.com/posts/mayor-of-floren ... -prejudice

"Hug a chinese" campaign by Mayor:
https://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/t ... inese-day/

Aaron747 wrote:

[To be fair, your take on the statement turns what they actually said - which was okay scientifically - into an unscientific statement. Scientists don’t state things in categorical terms unless evidence is airtight. Again this is what I mean by our society having a poor understanding of science and its mindset.

scbriml wrote:

mham001 wrote:

It all comes back to one place and one place only - CHINA. Why are you so hellbent on their absolution? Because...Trump?

You're going to have to show me where I've made any attempt to absolve China of anything.

Jouhou wrote:

Likewise, the way the Chinese government was handling this outbreak and their attempts to minimize it and silence rumors was immediately suspicious to both the community of infectious disease professionals and enthusiasts and a SARS-traumatized Hong Kong.

Jouhou wrote:

It will be at least a year to develop a vaccine, which both the US and China have already started work on.

N212R wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

It will be at least a year to develop a vaccine, which both the US and China have already started work on.

Here we were on Jan 20 and THE US had already started work on a vaccine...seems the Chinese government early attempts at minimizing and silencing rumors didn't apply to US vaccine specialists?

N212R wrote:

or were there reasons that the Chinese scientists working with coronavirus in Wuhan didn't tell the greater world...

https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/0 ... 2019-ncov/

theaviator380 wrote:

[...]So no idea if it's a fake news or factual but worth looking?[...]

stl07 wrote:

BlueberryWheats wrote:

stl07 wrote:

https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch

Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?

Huh, that's odd.

He's a US senator that delayed aid to virus impacted people, but now he got the virus himself.

lugie wrote:

Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).

frmrCapCadet wrote:

Here are some precautions which should enable industry to slowly start up. I am not an expert and welcome corrections or additions. As I understand and am reading much of this comes from U of WA health people and what seems to be happening in Naval Base Kitsap.

Sick people should stay home (and this entails generous sick pay)
People should be monitored, say on coming to work, once during the day, and at the end of the day. (this could be self monitoring)
Symptoms monitored: temperature, coughs and sneezes (although I have read the later is not a symptom), and respiratory distress
Redesign work place to eliminate all unnecessary worker contacts, i.e., engineer in 6 foot social distancing whenever possible
Testing (US is still doing very poorly at this), if a person needs testing, they and co-workers need to be put on home leave until negative results come back. Desperate need for ultra fast and fairly accurate testing. It may be coming.

While pre-symptomatic spreading is possible, it may be significantly less than post-symptomatic. This would be a significant distinction.

stl07 wrote:

BlueberryWheats wrote:

stl07 wrote:

https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch

Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?

Huh, that's odd.

He's a US senator that delayed aid to virus impacted people, but now he got the virus himself.

lightsaber wrote:

Early on, Doctors were forbidden to discuss the CoronaVirus:

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200202_02/

Kilopond wrote:

theaviator380 wrote:

[...]So no idea if it's a fake news or factual but worth looking?[...]

That campaign "embrace a Chinese - against racism" was a real fact. Look for #Abbracciauncinese.

N212R wrote:

Thank you Mr. Jouhou for your prescient thread-starting.

Jouhou wrote:

But you would think Asians would have increased resistance if anything to a virus that has similarities to the viruses circulating in many of their local animals.)

mham001 wrote:

lugie wrote:

Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).

I don't know where you got the idea it has plateaued or dropped in Germany, that cannot be farther from the truth, as your own link and every other source confirms. "In Germany , the number of reported cases has recently doubled in 4 days"

mham001 wrote:

Then why the WHO, whose leader has been a Chinese shill from the beginning?

"but, but...Trump!", right?

scbriml wrote:

Let’s take a real-World example that’s close to my heart. My small local pub is run by three brothers who brew their own beer and have a wood-fired pizza oven. It’s a great place and we and our neighbours love it. They have now been forced to close by direct action of the government. Do you think its unreasonable for that government to support them and help them get through this? They are just one of dozens of small, independent businesses in my home town that will struggle to survive without help.

theaviator380 wrote:

Hello Folks, hope everyone is safe and sound.

Don't shoot 'ME' for this info as I saw this circulating online so I am just sharing to see your views on it.

So no idea if it's a fake news or factual but worth looking?

_____

Why "Social Distancing" is the most important precaution in the fight against Corona. Live example from last month's history.

As we can see from the uploaded image, it is a news snippet from 4th Feb.
In early Feb, while China was reeling under pressure due to Corona virus, Italy was totally safe, and had less than 5 confirmed cases. But despite such low numbers, Italians automatically started taking precautions. Since Italy has a few leather factories which are dominated by Chinese immigrants, and as most of them had recently been to their hometowns for vacations and were returning to work in January 2020 (in Italian factories), the locals in Italy started exercising caution, by avoiding any direct interaction with those Chinese. In fact, that's basic human tendency, to avoid interaction with anyone coming from virus affected regions. So, the Italians naturally started avoiding interactions with Chinese, especially those who had recently landed at Italy. This apparently didn't go down well with certain activists who felt it is a form of "discrimination" against Chinese.

During such heightened times, instead of testing those Chinese workers for the virus, the Mayor of Florence (Italy) came up with an initiative in which he appealed to all the Italians to show their love towards Chinese, by hugging them. It was titled "Hug a Chinese", and was organized/supported by several NGOs as well, and hailed by various leaders for "political correctness". Their logic was that human is bigger than virus, and hence a mere virus cannot create a barrier between Italians & Chinese.

Over the next few days, there was a sort of "celebration" throughout Italy, where everyone walking down the streets were hugging every other Chinese immigrant, to "show their love". Some even took it to the next level, in which they started hugging Chinese passengers in masks who had just landed at Italy, most of whom were probably already infected.

Few days later, Italy was gripped with Corona virus, and the number of cases which was in single digit till mid Feb, exploded to thousands within a week of the "Hug a Chinese" campaign.

One might say there is no use raking up these facts now, because the damage is already done. But the point here is that such incidents serve as crucial lessons for rest of the world, and it is a real example of how social distancing can be really effective. As we can see from this example, the Italians were initially cautious and hence hardly had any confirmed cases as long as they were cautious. But the moment their leader turned it into a mockery, everyone threw all caution out of the window and things just exploded after that.

This is something rest of the world can take notice. Social distancing is very important during an epedimic. There is no need to play any game of "political correctness" to appease anybody. Also, these events show why good leadership is important.

Links:

News snippet:
https://vdare.com/posts/mayor-of-floren ... -prejudice

"Hug a chinese" campaign by Mayor:
https://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/t ... inese-day/

theaviator380 wrote:

Hello Folks, hope everyone is safe and sound.

Don't shoot 'ME' for this info as I saw this circulating online so I am just sharing to see your views on it.

So no idea if it's a fake news or factual but worth looking?

_____

Why "Social Distancing" is the most important precaution in the fight against Corona. Live example from last month's history.

lugie wrote:

mham001 wrote:

lugie wrote:

Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).

I don't know where you got the idea it has plateaued or dropped in Germany, that cannot be farther from the truth, as your own link and every other source confirms. "In Germany , the number of reported cases has recently doubled in 4 days"

I might not have been clear in the way I phrased my post, but what I meant - and what the chart on the lower right definitely shows - is that the number of new cases per day has decreased for two days in a row now.

Of course the total number is still increasing and we're far from plateauing, but at least those last two days have shown the growth slowing. Now, was that just a fluke or an indication of a real change in trend? We will find out in the coming days, but for now, those numbers stand.

And once again, sorry for phrasing it in a way that made it seem like I implied case numbers were plateauing or even dropping.

N212R wrote:

scbriml wrote:

Let’s take a real-World example that’s close to my heart. My small local pub is run by three brothers who brew their own beer and have a wood-fired pizza oven. It’s a great place and we and our neighbours love it. They have now been forced to close by direct action of the government. Do you think its unreasonable for that government to support them and help them get through this? They are just one of dozens of small, independent businesses in my home town that will struggle to survive without help.

I bought a fancy outboard boat with all the trimmings to regularly use on my local lake . It's a great boat and we an our friends love it. The bad news is I've had to put it on the hoist for the foreseeable future. The government has closed the entire lake due to a bad invasive species outbreak.

Do you think it's reasonable for the government to make my boat payments?

aemoreira1981 wrote:

And so it begins...Canada won't send its athletes to the Olympics if they remain held in 2020: From the Toronto Star: https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/ ... feren.html

Separately, Australia has told its athletes to prepare for an Olympics in (northern) Summer 2021.

chimborazo wrote:

For your comparison to work you’d have to explain to us how not using your boat (an item for pleasure of you and your friends) causes you financial hardship...?

dtw2hyd wrote:

Michigan jumped from 549 to 1035 in one day. We are #5 in the country. Most +ve cases are from City of Detroit. Not sure if a cluster is emerging, or what.

People are not heeding to stay-at-home requests. I can understand someone who lives in an urban center high-rise apartment have to get some fresh air. There is no need to congregate at local parks if you live in suburbia with backyards. Sure it is difficult but it is temporary.

Governor is trying her best to force a virtual shutdown, by closing non-essential businesses.

One week into stay-at-home recommendation, haven't made a dent.

MarcoT wrote:

News from Italy:

After two weeks of lockdown, as hoped, we are seeing the first signs of a slowdown:

- a 15% decline in new cases (from 6557 to 5560)

- a 18% decline in new deaths (from 793 to 651)

North of 258,000 tests made, running now around 25000 tests / day

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... 2-2020.jpg
https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blo ... ionale.csv
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coro ... c_in_Italy

mham001 wrote:

lugie wrote:

Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).

I don't know where you got the idea it has plateaued or dropped in Germany, that cannot be farther from the truth, as your own link and every other source confirms. "In Germany , the number of reported cases has recently doubled in 4 days"