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AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:48 pm

emperortk wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
emperortk wrote:

Do you have a source for this, or are you just making it up? And by source, I mean some kind of public statement from WHO that says coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person.


"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China,"


https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-hea ... oronavirus


Help me out here. I'm still looking for the part that says "coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person" as you stated was claimed by WHO.

All I see is a statement about the lack of evidence for such having occurred. There is plenty to fault China and the WHO for, but your statement is a mischaracterization of what was said.


I see you are more preoccupied with the way I worded my statement, yet dismiss the entire and misleading statement the WHO and China said at that time, that probably costed many lives. Mines is a 'mis-characterization' according to you, which is not, its what they said and is a total and horrible way of dis-informing and lying to millions if not billions of people. Lets see how many people got hurt with my statement? zero but perhaps many egos did. Sorry if I offended the WHO or China, but they f...ing deserve it.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11784
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:09 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
emperortk wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


Help me out here. I'm still looking for the part that says "coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person" as you stated was claimed by WHO.

All I see is a statement about the lack of evidence for such having occurred. There is plenty to fault China and the WHO for, but your statement is a mischaracterization of what was said.


I see you are more preoccupied with the way I worded my statement, yet dismiss the entire and misleading statement the WHO and China said at that time, that probably costed many lives. Mines is a 'mis-characterization' according to you, which is not, its what they said and is a total and horrible way of dis-informing and lying to millions if not billions of people. Lets see how many people got hurt with my statement? zero but perhaps many egos did. Sorry if I offended the WHO or China, but they f...ing deserve it.


To be fair, your take on the statement turns what they actually said - which was okay scientifically - into an unscientific statement. Scientists don’t state things in categorical terms unless evidence is airtight. Again this is what I mean by our society having a poor understanding of science and its mindset.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2293
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:12 pm

https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-r ... ronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus :lol: :lol:

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 11784
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:14 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aesma wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
If the US GDP falls by 20% (a common forecast), that’s $4 trillion, not to mention the human costs of lost employment, savings etc. The government uses $10 million as the value of a human life for policy making decisions, when tested in studies individuals value themselves at half that. We have to save 400,000 to 800,000 lives to make the numbers work. That’s save, not total deaths but deaths that don’t occur because of the quarantine measures.

Today the death total is 346.


I was waiting for this. Since it seems for some all that matters is money, well it turns out the value of someone is also in money, and it's a big number. So hurting the economy to save many people might be worth it after all.


Hurt the economic, maybe; destroy it, certainly not. A depression induced to save lives will cause deaths too. Increased suicides, social violence, substance abuse, loss of education opportunities. Nothing is free, everything has an opportunity cost. The present hit to the US economy alone will require saving 400,000 lives that could be directly attributed, not merely contributory, to COVID-19. Will there even be a total of 400,000 COVID deaths?


Without intervention, who knows? But we owe it to our senior citizens and healthcare professionals not to have to find out.

That’s also lost in these discussions - our doctors and nurses go to work every day doing their best to help whoever they can. Is there any honor in standing in their way?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 647
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:46 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:18 pm

stl07 wrote:
https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus :lol: :lol:

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch


Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
T4thH
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:22 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Some good news from Germany. The spread of Coronavirus seems to slow down in Germany. So the high number of tests performed (and high number of early identified cases), the first measurements to slow it and of course, that many/most people were more careful, (like regular wash your hands, stay in some distance to others e.g.) seems to do the job, to slow it (not to solve it).
https://www.businessinsider.de/wissenschaft/coronavirus-infektionen-anstieg-verlangsamt-deutschland/

Still in comparison to the identified total number of cases low number of death (just as so many have been Coronavirus cases have been identified by the tests), compared to other countries....

It seems, the healthcare system in Germany will not break down as Germany has additional far the highest total number and number/100.000 of intensive care beds without and with ventilators in Europe and up to the highest in the world. It was in 2017: 28.000 (34/100.000) intensive care, of them 25.000 (28/100.000) with ventilators. All intensive care beds without have been now upgraded and many thousands new intensive care beds with ventilators have been assembled at hospitals (and 10.000 additional ventilators have been ordered at Dräger, to be delivered till end of this year). Additional emergency hospitals are now build in fair halls (as these are big and empty, as all fairs are cancelled) e.g., hospital staff has been re-trained for intensive care department e.g.
(For your information: US has also around 34 intensive care beds/100.000; UK has just only 6, Denmark has 6, Italy has 12 to 13, France 12, Spain 10....average in Europe is something around 13).
So Germany is well prepared now.

And to all in US; Europe has had the ski resort Ischgl in Austria and the ski resorts in northern Italy, from there the Coronavirus has spread through Europe, these were our superspreader locations in Europe with thousands coming back with Coronavirus. You will have now your Spring Break and the thousands with Coronavirus coming back.


The below is an opinion.

I'm going to burst some bubbles here: Germany is not doing well at all.
There is no significant slowdown of new cases, they are in Spain and Italy's footsteps leading the pack in number of cases, they aren't taking major precautions, they are not reporting numbers of critical patients, they have no deaths attributed to Covid19 because they are not reporting them properly.

Germany is walking a thin line between reporting the truth and keeping their industries going.
That's right, there is nothing more important to Germany than their industries, so like Japan, do not expect too much transparency until the situation is out of control.

As for having enough ICU beds available, we'll see.
This false sense of safety is very dangerous.

One explanation is also that Germany is testing more widely and detecting, isolating sooner.
But I doubt it.

Even Italy is admitting that they are underreporting Covid19 deaths, as higher mortality rates in counties are not fully accounted for by confirmed Covid19 cases, meaning that many Covid19 death are still slipping under the radar.

Giovanni Maga from CNR told Euronews that in Italy a person who tested positive while alive or post-mortem is counted as a coronavirus-death. "I don't know if Germany or France follow the same criteria," he noted.

Maga also stated that healthcare structures are rather similar in northern Italy, France and Germany, making it harder to justify such discrepancies in numbers.

He agreed with Wieler with regards to the time curve and the progression of the pandemic. "France and Germany are where Italy was at the beginning of the month. They are late in implementing measures and will get to a point where they will have a harsher level of contagion."



https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/13/cor ... -19-deaths


You like conspiracy theories, right? Sorry, I will not waste my time to discuss with believers, as I will never change your mind. This I have learned over the last decades in discussion with far left, far right, sect members, creationists e.g. in Germany, GDR e.g. ...They believe, they know, that is enough.

Just for your information, in the last 14 days, I have seen/spoken by phone with 2 university hospital professors, 4 university hospital physicians, one physician of a medical practice, around 10 nurses, MA e.g. and of course emails to many others....and in all cases I have also discussed, if and how Coronavirus can and will impact their work at their departments e.g. as this is part of my job.
As said, you believe and I know and now I will stop the discussion again in this thread. "Again" means, that it is now the second time and again I am bored and not willed to waste my time any further.

And stop.
 
emperortk
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:01 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:32 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
emperortk wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:


Help me out here. I'm still looking for the part that says "coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person" as you stated was claimed by WHO.

All I see is a statement about the lack of evidence for such having occurred. There is plenty to fault China and the WHO for, but your statement is a mischaracterization of what was said.


I see you are more preoccupied with the way I worded my statement, yet dismiss the entire and misleading statement the WHO and China said at that time, that probably costed many lives. Mines is a 'mis-characterization' according to you, which is not, its what they said and is a total and horrible way of dis-informing and lying to millions if not billions of people. Lets see how many people got hurt with my statement? zero but perhaps many egos did. Sorry if I offended the WHO or China, but they f...ing deserve it.


If you can't discern the difference between: 1) there is no evidence of person to person transmission and 2) the virus can't be transmitted from person to person; that's no one's fault but yours.
 
Osubuckeyes
Posts: 1873
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:05 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:36 pm

I don't know how reliable this source is... But pretty damning on the WHO if true.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... e=inshorts
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1179
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:39 pm

T4thH wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Some good news from Germany. The spread of Coronavirus seems to slow down in Germany. So the high number of tests performed (and high number of early identified cases), the first measurements to slow it and of course, that many/most people were more careful, (like regular wash your hands, stay in some distance to others e.g.) seems to do the job, to slow it (not to solve it).
https://www.businessinsider.de/wissenschaft/coronavirus-infektionen-anstieg-verlangsamt-deutschland/

Still in comparison to the identified total number of cases low number of death (just as so many have been Coronavirus cases have been identified by the tests), compared to other countries....

It seems, the healthcare system in Germany will not break down as Germany has additional far the highest total number and number/100.000 of intensive care beds without and with ventilators in Europe and up to the highest in the world. It was in 2017: 28.000 (34/100.000) intensive care, of them 25.000 (28/100.000) with ventilators. All intensive care beds without have been now upgraded and many thousands new intensive care beds with ventilators have been assembled at hospitals (and 10.000 additional ventilators have been ordered at Dräger, to be delivered till end of this year). Additional emergency hospitals are now build in fair halls (as these are big and empty, as all fairs are cancelled) e.g., hospital staff has been re-trained for intensive care department e.g.
(For your information: US has also around 34 intensive care beds/100.000; UK has just only 6, Denmark has 6, Italy has 12 to 13, France 12, Spain 10....average in Europe is something around 13).
So Germany is well prepared now.

And to all in US; Europe has had the ski resort Ischgl in Austria and the ski resorts in northern Italy, from there the Coronavirus has spread through Europe, these were our superspreader locations in Europe with thousands coming back with Coronavirus. You will have now your Spring Break and the thousands with Coronavirus coming back.


The below is an opinion.

I'm going to burst some bubbles here: Germany is not doing well at all.
There is no significant slowdown of new cases, they are in Spain and Italy's footsteps leading the pack in number of cases, they aren't taking major precautions, they are not reporting numbers of critical patients, they have no deaths attributed to Covid19 because they are not reporting them properly.

Germany is walking a thin line between reporting the truth and keeping their industries going.
That's right, there is nothing more important to Germany than their industries, so like Japan, do not expect too much transparency until the situation is out of control.

As for having enough ICU beds available, we'll see.
This false sense of safety is very dangerous.

One explanation is also that Germany is testing more widely and detecting, isolating sooner.
But I doubt it.

Even Italy is admitting that they are underreporting Covid19 deaths, as higher mortality rates in counties are not fully accounted for by confirmed Covid19 cases, meaning that many Covid19 death are still slipping under the radar.

Giovanni Maga from CNR told Euronews that in Italy a person who tested positive while alive or post-mortem is counted as a coronavirus-death. "I don't know if Germany or France follow the same criteria," he noted.

Maga also stated that healthcare structures are rather similar in northern Italy, France and Germany, making it harder to justify such discrepancies in numbers.

He agreed with Wieler with regards to the time curve and the progression of the pandemic. "France and Germany are where Italy was at the beginning of the month. They are late in implementing measures and will get to a point where they will have a harsher level of contagion."



https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/13/cor ... -19-deaths


You like conspiracy theories, right? Sorry, I will not waste my time to discuss with believers, as I will never change your mind. This I have learned over the last decades in discussion with far left, far right, sect members, creationists e.g. in Germany, GDR e.g. ...They believe, they know, that is enough.

Just for your information, in the last 14 days, I have seen/spoken by phone with 2 university hospital professors, 4 university hospital physicians, one physician of a medical practice, around 10 nurses, MA e.g. and of course emails to many others....and in all cases I have also discussed, if and how Coronavirus can and will impact their work at their departments e.g. as this is part of my job.
As said, you believe and I know and now I will stop the discussion again in this thread. "Again" means, that it is now the second time and again I am bored and not willed to waste my time any further.

And stop.


What do you say to this:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel in quarantine after doctor tests positive for coronavirus
Angela Merkel will quarantine herself at home after being treated by a doctor who has since tested positive.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -positive/

Let's hope that Mutti will be ok, because fuzzing the fatality statistics will become rather meaningless if she goes.

I won't stop to point out lack of transparency of governments in this crisis, how inconvenient that may be.
I will also highlight governments who are transparent.
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:42 pm

emperortk wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
emperortk wrote:

Help me out here. I'm still looking for the part that says "coronavirus can't be transmitted from person to person" as you stated was claimed by WHO.

All I see is a statement about the lack of evidence for such having occurred. There is plenty to fault China and the WHO for, but your statement is a mischaracterization of what was said.


I see you are more preoccupied with the way I worded my statement, yet dismiss the entire and misleading statement the WHO and China said at that time, that probably costed many lives. Mines is a 'mis-characterization' according to you, which is not, its what they said and is a total and horrible way of dis-informing and lying to millions if not billions of people. Lets see how many people got hurt with my statement? zero but perhaps many egos did. Sorry if I offended the WHO or China, but they f...ing deserve it.


If you can't discern the difference between: 1) there is no evidence of person to person transmission and 2) the virus can't be transmitted from person to person; that's no one's fault but yours.


I can think of millions of things an official WHO communication platform can use to 'disregard' or 'downplay' by saying there is no evidence of X. Millions. What's the point of sharing to billions of people in the world this 'information' that there is 'no evidence', perhaps since they are beholden to China, they wanted to play nice. Clearly this is a horrible blunder, and if no one would like to see it as it is, then no one would be accountable for tweets.
Last edited by AirWorthy99 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aesma wrote:

I was waiting for this. Since it seems for some all that matters is money, well it turns out the value of someone is also in money, and it's a big number. So hurting the economy to save many people might be worth it after all.


Hurt the economic, maybe; destroy it, certainly not. A depression induced to save lives will cause deaths too. Increased suicides, social violence, substance abuse, loss of education opportunities. Nothing is free, everything has an opportunity cost. The present hit to the US economy alone will require saving 400,000 lives that could be directly attributed, not merely contributory, to COVID-19. Will there even be a total of 400,000 COVID deaths?


Without intervention, who knows? But we owe it to our senior citizens and healthcare professionals not to have to find out.

That’s also lost in these discussions - our doctors and nurses go to work every day doing their best to help whoever they can. Is there any honor in standing in their way?


The other day I cited the WSJ editorial, check out what liberal Thomas Friedman says on the NYT opinion:

in regards our 'experts':

I share these questions. Our leaders are not flying completely blind: They are working off the advice of serious epidemiologists and public health experts. Yet we still need to be careful about “group think,’’ which is a natural but dangerous reaction when responding to a national and global crisis. We’re making decisions that affect the whole country and our entire economy — therefore, small errors in navigation could have huge consequences.


bottom line:

Either we let many of us get the coronavirus, recover and get back to work — while doing our utmost to protect those most vulnerable to being killed by it. Or, we shut down for months to try to save everyone everywhere from this virus — no matter their risk profile — and kill many people by other means, kill our economy and maybe kill our future.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opin ... e=Homepage
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
User avatar
lugie
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:11 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:50 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
What do you say to this:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel in quarantine after doctor tests positive for coronavirus
Angela Merkel will quarantine herself at home after being treated by a doctor who has since tested positive.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -positive/

Let's hope that Mutti will be ok, because fuzzing the fatality statistics will become rather meaningless if she goes.

I won't stop to point out lack of transparency of governments in this crisis, how inconvenient that may be.
I will also highlight governments who are transparent.



How does this change anything about the facts that were pointed out in their initial post?

Yes, Angela Merkel's personal doctor has tested positive, so she has taken the appropriate steps and put herself under self-isolation, just how, as she expressed in her TV address, she would expect her citizens to do.

Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).
Last edited by lugie on Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Q400 E175 E190 CRJ7 CRJ9 CRJX MD88 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A359 B733 B73G B738 B739 B748 B764 B772 B77W B788 B789
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW IAD YYZ SJO PTY
 
T4thH
Posts: 915
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:51 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
T4thH wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

The below is an opinion.

I'm going to burst some bubbles here: Germany is not doing well at all.
There is no significant slowdown of new cases, they are in Spain and Italy's footsteps leading the pack in number of cases, they aren't taking major precautions, they are not reporting numbers of critical patients, they have no deaths attributed to Covid19 because they are not reporting them properly.

Germany is walking a thin line between reporting the truth and keeping their industries going.
That's right, there is nothing more important to Germany than their industries, so like Japan, do not expect too much transparency until the situation is out of control.

As for having enough ICU beds available, we'll see.
This false sense of safety is very dangerous.

One explanation is also that Germany is testing more widely and detecting, isolating sooner.
But I doubt it.

Even Italy is admitting that they are underreporting Covid19 deaths, as higher mortality rates in counties are not fully accounted for by confirmed Covid19 cases, meaning that many Covid19 death are still slipping under the radar.


https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/13/cor ... -19-deaths


You like conspiracy theories, right? Sorry, I will not waste my time to discuss with believers, as I will never change your mind. This I have learned over the last decades in discussion with far left, far right, sect members, creationists e.g. in Germany, GDR e.g. ...They believe, they know, that is enough.

Just for your information, in the last 14 days, I have seen/spoken by phone with 2 university hospital professors, 4 university hospital physicians, one physician of a medical practice, around 10 nurses, MA e.g. and of course emails to many others....and in all cases I have also discussed, if and how Coronavirus can and will impact their work at their departments e.g. as this is part of my job.
As said, you believe and I know and now I will stop the discussion again in this thread. "Again" means, that it is now the second time and again I am bored and not willed to waste my time any further.

And stop.


What do you say to this:

German Chancellor Angela Merkel in quarantine after doctor tests positive for coronavirus
Angela Merkel will quarantine herself at home after being treated by a doctor who has since tested positive.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -positive/

Let's hope that Mutti will be ok, because fuzzing the fatality statistics will become rather meaningless if she goes.

I won't stop to point out lack of transparency of governments in this crisis, how inconvenient that may be.
I will also highlight governments who are transparent.

My quarantine has ended two weeks ago. What is difficult to understand of: "not willed to waste my time any further."
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1179
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:55 pm

Russia is sending equipment and teams of doctors to Italy, as the nation continues to battle its worsening coronavirus outbreak.

The Russian Ministry of Defense said Sunday it had started flying 100 doctors and virologists, along with disinfection equipment, to the country.

The first Il-76 aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Forces departed Sunday from Moscow’s Chkalovsky military airfield with Russian military specialists and equipment aboard, the Russian military said in a statement.

Nine Il-76 transport aircraft, with military doctors, special vehicles for disinfecting and other medical equipment on board, will land today at the military airport of Pratica di Mare, the Italian defense ministry added.

Some context: This news came a day after telephone conversations between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte and the defense ministers of both countries.

According to a Kremlin readout, Russia agreed to provide assistance on Italy’s request, including protective equipment, KAMAZ truck-mounted units used for disinfection, medical and other equipment.

“Italy is not alone in this challenge,” Italian Defense Minister Lorenzo Guerini said after speaking with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu by phone late Saturday, according to a readout. “I want to thank Russia for the help it is giving our country to overcome this emergency.”


https://edition.cnn.com/world/live-news ... 6d0b7ff501

Bravo to Russia. 9 x IL76, that's some serious operation.
Nice slogan too.

Mother russia to the rescue.

:thumbsup:

Video's:
https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/12417 ... 66313?s=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtn1l_HM39c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWiRnLxYFkg

Image

Image

https://www.rt.com/news/483765-russian- ... nes-italy/
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:08 pm

0-100,000 infections in weeks
100,000-200,000 infections in 12 days
200,000-300,000 infections in 3 days

If my math isn't too rusty, we will be at 500,000 in another 3 days, and a million in a week, if the curve doesn't start going in the opposite direction

BlueberryWheats wrote:
stl07 wrote:
https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus :lol: :lol:

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch


Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?

US Senator Rand Paul. A great, conservative, let-them-starve, giver of lessons.

Confirmed somewhere in this article
https://www.wsj.com/articles/global-cor ... _lead_pos1
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2293
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:32 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
stl07 wrote:
https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus :lol: :lol:

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch


Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?

Huh, that's odd.

He's a US senator that delayed aid to virus impacted people, but now he got the virus himself.
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2360
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:34 pm

While I didn't vote for Trump in 2016, I am very impressed by his response to this crisis. No other president has been willing to work with the private sector to come up with fast solutions in emergencies. Trump seems to know his strengths and weaknesses and immediately brought in the people who handle large demands on a daily basis. Trump was also first to call for a suspension of travel from other countries. He was cirticized for that but then the rest of the world quickly did the same thing. He also pushed out harmful regulations immediately. I had never heard of Certificate of Need until this. And it is absolutely sickening. Why in the world would we want to artificially put limits on the number of hospitals and medical equipment? Whoever came up with that law is truly sick in the head. He has now also brought the auto makers together to quickly manufacture more ventilators. He has done a very good job in quickly responding to this mess.
 
Newark727
Posts: 1820
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:43 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
While I didn't vote for Trump in 2016, I am very impressed by his response to this crisis. No other president has been willing to work with the private sector to come up with fast solutions in emergencies. Trump seems to know his strengths and weaknesses and immediately brought in the people who handle large demands on a daily basis. Trump was also first to call for a suspension of travel from other countries. He was cirticized for that but then the rest of the world quickly did the same thing. He also pushed out harmful regulations immediately. I had never heard of Certificate of Need until this. And it is absolutely sickening. Why in the world would we want to artificially put limits on the number of hospitals and medical equipment? Whoever came up with that law is truly sick in the head. He has now also brought the auto makers together to quickly manufacture more ventilators. He has done a very good job in quickly responding to this mess.


On the contrary, he seems until recently to have been a bystander in all this - until he saw things he could start taking credit for.
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:46 pm

theaviator380 wrote:


Incredible. US-exported 'social justice', what a deadly embarrassment.

Aaron747 wrote:
[To be fair, your take on the statement turns what they actually said - which was okay scientifically - into an unscientific statement. Scientists don’t state things in categorical terms unless evidence is airtight. Again this is what I mean by our society having a poor understanding of science and its mindset.


One could also easily say that neither scientists or worldwide health officials should probably be offering this up via tweet. Particularly while its Director-General is simultaneously heaping excessive praise for China with every statement.

scbriml wrote:
mham001 wrote:
It all comes back to one place and one place only - CHINA. Why are you so hellbent on their absolution? Because...Trump?


You're going to have to show me where I've made any attempt to absolve China of anything.


Then why the WHO, whose leader has been a Chinese shill from the beginning?

"but, but...Trump!", right?
 
N212R
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:48 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Likewise, the way the Chinese government was handling this outbreak and their attempts to minimize it and silence rumors was immediately suspicious to both the community of infectious disease professionals and enthusiasts and a SARS-traumatized Hong Kong.


Why would the Chinese "attempt to minimize and silence rumors" in the earliest days? Their level 4 facility in Wuhan was imminently recognized within the world-wide epidemiology community and among infectious disease professionals. Why would individuals within that facility, many with international credentials and contacts, NOT sound the alarm? Were they not the best placed to recognize the terrible consequences of what was transpiring, how very coincidentally or NOT, right under there microscopes? The implication that the Chinese government was the ONLY mouthpiece by which the greater world would know, in the earliest days of this outbreak, of the seriousness of this virus, seems to me impossible even given the controlling power of the CCP.

or were there reasons that the Chinese scientists working with coronavirus in Wuhan didn't tell the greater world...

https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/0 ... 2019-ncov/

Thank you Mr. Jouhou for your prescient thread-starting.
 
N212R
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:02 pm

Jouhou wrote:
It will be at least a year to develop a vaccine, which both the US and China have already started work on.


Here we were on Jan 20 and THE US had already started work on a vaccine...seems the Chinese government early attempts at minimizing and silencing rumors didn't apply to US vaccine specialists?
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:09 pm

N212R wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
It will be at least a year to develop a vaccine, which both the US and China have already started work on.


Here we were on Jan 20 and THE US had already started work on a vaccine...seems the Chinese government early attempts at minimizing and silencing rumors didn't apply to US vaccine specialists?



You can't mention that, it disturbs the "but, but....Trump!" narrative.

N212R wrote:

or were there reasons that the Chinese scientists working with coronavirus in Wuhan didn't tell the greater world...

https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/0 ... 2019-ncov/


If any bit of that is true, it is very damning.
Last edited by mham001 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Kilopond
Posts: 556
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:08 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:10 pm

theaviator380 wrote:
[...]So no idea if it's a fake news or factual but worth looking?[...]


That campaign "embrace a Chinese - against racism" was a real fact. Look for #Abbracciauncinese.
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
Posts: 2028
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:19 pm

stl07 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
stl07 wrote:
https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus :lol: :lol:

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch


Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?

Huh, that's odd.

He's a US senator that delayed aid to virus impacted people, but now he got the virus himself.


Nothing odd, just Fox news and several other US news websites that are blocking EU viewers due to GDPR.

Swedish news today is that number of confirmed cases increased to 1906, number of confirmed deceased is 21.
https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/smi ... iskt-lage/

The Swedish military are supporting Swedish healthcare by putting up field hospitals in Stockholm a the Stockholm international fair in Älvsjö.
The field hospital can accommodate up 30 intensive care patients. https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/GG ... er-flyttas
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
mham001
Posts: 5745
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:45 pm

lugie wrote:
Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).


I don't know where you got the idea it has plateaued or dropped in Germany, that cannot be farther from the truth, as your own link and every other source confirms. "In Germany , the number of reported cases has recently doubled in 4 days"
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:50 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Here are some precautions which should enable industry to slowly start up. I am not an expert and welcome corrections or additions. As I understand and am reading much of this comes from U of WA health people and what seems to be happening in Naval Base Kitsap.

Sick people should stay home (and this entails generous sick pay)
People should be monitored, say on coming to work, once during the day, and at the end of the day. (this could be self monitoring)
Symptoms monitored: temperature, coughs and sneezes (although I have read the later is not a symptom), and respiratory distress
Redesign work place to eliminate all unnecessary worker contacts, i.e., engineer in 6 foot social distancing whenever possible
Testing (US is still doing very poorly at this), if a person needs testing, they and co-workers need to be put on home leave until negative results come back. Desperate need for ultra fast and fairly accurate testing. It may be coming.

While pre-symptomatic spreading is possible, it may be significantly less than post-symptomatic. This would be a significant distinction.


I live in Kitsap County, and I am impressed with the response here - the state has ramped up without being authoritarian, the US Navy has strict but practical requirements.

My son works on base - his work group must have people on site for work to proceed. Those over 60 or have high risk are required to telecommute, also a lot of telecommute volunteers in his group: 4 now work on site, 8 are telecommuting, he is now the head of the group because his boss is over 60 and is at home. Entry to the bases is on a "as needed" basis, I have badges for the base but I can only go on base for work related things - no social.

I go to the Kaiser Permanente HMO, they require for patients to call in first (well staffed lines) that assess each case, if a clinic visit is needed, the doctor sends a note. Entering the parking lot everyone is guided to a drive thru monitoring tent that checks out the patient, that segregates the contagious from the others and the intake for the clinics are now separated out - all before entering the building. Well done precautions without being overboard.

Home Depot, Target, and Costco are all open, checking people at the entrance along with instructions to social distance, lots of Purel and clorox wipes. Cashiers and workers all wearing disposable gloves. Construction sites are segregating each subcontractor's crew keeping like 20 feet apart those that do not usually work together. At the drive in everyone is wearing disposable gloves, some are wearing masks that want them. A reasonable blend of caution but still keeping the economy going. Traffic on the roads is like 1/4 or less of typical traffic.

Washington was at the forefront with isolation and limiting groups to 10 or less, they kicked in when really all of are cases were around the nursing home that loads of victims came from. The jury is out still but our state seems to be at a plateau, sort of the same numbers of new cases and deaths each day since mid-week, not the sharp increases that New York is seeing.
 
BlueberryWheats
Posts: 647
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:09 pm

stl07 wrote:
BlueberryWheats wrote:
stl07 wrote:
https://fox8.com/news/coronavirus/sen-rand-paul-tests-positive-for-coronavirus/
Guess who just got the virus :lol: :lol:

I would say I wish no evil on anybody, but Karma is also a b*tch


Unfortunately, some of us are given a screen saying that this page cannot be accessed from Europe. Who is it?

Huh, that's odd.

He's a US senator that delayed aid to virus impacted people, but now he got the virus himself.


Thanks. Karma's a bitch, eh?
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2666
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:18 pm

And for those who thought that whistleblower suppression is Chinese thing only:
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article ... 149079.php
NY nurse who spoke about shortage of PPE gets disciplinary notice
 
N212R
Posts: 328
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:43 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Early on, Doctors were forbidden to discuss the CoronaVirus:

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200202_02/


Why would this article be removed?
 
theaviator380
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:48 pm

Kilopond wrote:
theaviator380 wrote:
[...]So no idea if it's a fake news or factual but worth looking?[...]


That campaign "embrace a Chinese - against racism" was a real fact. Look for #Abbracciauncinese.


Silly for sure then? They would have had better ways of consoling them...not bloody hugging knowing they could be carrying infection !
 
N212R
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:56 pm

N212R wrote:
Thank you Mr. Jouhou for your prescient thread-starting.


With apologies to Ms. Jouhou
 
N212R
Posts: 328
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:37 pm

Jouhou wrote:
But you would think Asians would have increased resistance if anything to a virus that has similarities to the viruses circulating in many of their local animals.)


You would think...but they wouldn't have resistance to a bio-engineered virus.
 
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lugie
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:47 pm

mham001 wrote:
lugie wrote:
Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).


I don't know where you got the idea it has plateaued or dropped in Germany, that cannot be farther from the truth, as your own link and every other source confirms. "In Germany , the number of reported cases has recently doubled in 4 days"



I might not have been clear in the way I phrased my post, but what I meant - and what the chart on the lower right definitely shows - is that the number of new cases per day has decreased for two days in a row now.

Of course the total number is still increasing and we're far from plateauing, but at least those last two days have shown the growth slowing. Now, was that just a fluke or an indication of a real change in trend? We will find out in the coming days, but for now, those numbers stand.

And once again, sorry for phrasing it in a way that made it seem like I implied case numbers were plateauing or even dropping.
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scbriml
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:56 pm

mham001 wrote:
Then why the WHO, whose leader has been a Chinese shill from the beginning?

"but, but...Trump!", right?


For a second I thought you might have something, but I needn’t have worried. :)
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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wiggy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:58 pm

the title should be called who can say the most racist things about china.
 
N212R
Posts: 328
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:00 pm

scbriml wrote:
Let’s take a real-World example that’s close to my heart. My small local pub is run by three brothers who brew their own beer and have a wood-fired pizza oven. It’s a great place and we and our neighbours love it. They have now been forced to close by direct action of the government. Do you think its unreasonable for that government to support them and help them get through this? They are just one of dozens of small, independent businesses in my home town that will struggle to survive without help.


I bought a fancy outboard boat with all the trimmings to regularly use on my local lake . It's a great boat and we an our friends love it. The bad news is I've had to put it on the hoist for the foreseeable future. The government has closed the entire lake due to a bad invasive species outbreak.

Do you think it's reasonable for the government to make my boat payments?
 
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Aesma
Posts: 12952
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:07 pm

theaviator380 wrote:
Hello Folks, hope everyone is safe and sound.

Don't shoot 'ME' for this info as I saw this circulating online so I am just sharing to see your views on it.

So no idea if it's a fake news or factual but worth looking?

_____

Why "Social Distancing" is the most important precaution in the fight against Corona. Live example from last month's history.

As we can see from the uploaded image, it is a news snippet from 4th Feb.
In early Feb, while China was reeling under pressure due to Corona virus, Italy was totally safe, and had less than 5 confirmed cases. But despite such low numbers, Italians automatically started taking precautions. Since Italy has a few leather factories which are dominated by Chinese immigrants, and as most of them had recently been to their hometowns for vacations and were returning to work in January 2020 (in Italian factories), the locals in Italy started exercising caution, by avoiding any direct interaction with those Chinese. In fact, that's basic human tendency, to avoid interaction with anyone coming from virus affected regions. So, the Italians naturally started avoiding interactions with Chinese, especially those who had recently landed at Italy. This apparently didn't go down well with certain activists who felt it is a form of "discrimination" against Chinese.

During such heightened times, instead of testing those Chinese workers for the virus, the Mayor of Florence (Italy) came up with an initiative in which he appealed to all the Italians to show their love towards Chinese, by hugging them. It was titled "Hug a Chinese", and was organized/supported by several NGOs as well, and hailed by various leaders for "political correctness". Their logic was that human is bigger than virus, and hence a mere virus cannot create a barrier between Italians & Chinese.

Over the next few days, there was a sort of "celebration" throughout Italy, where everyone walking down the streets were hugging every other Chinese immigrant, to "show their love". Some even took it to the next level, in which they started hugging Chinese passengers in masks who had just landed at Italy, most of whom were probably already infected.

Few days later, Italy was gripped with Corona virus, and the number of cases which was in single digit till mid Feb, exploded to thousands within a week of the "Hug a Chinese" campaign.

One might say there is no use raking up these facts now, because the damage is already done. But the point here is that such incidents serve as crucial lessons for rest of the world, and it is a real example of how social distancing can be really effective. As we can see from this example, the Italians were initially cautious and hence hardly had any confirmed cases as long as they were cautious. But the moment their leader turned it into a mockery, everyone threw all caution out of the window and things just exploded after that.

This is something rest of the world can take notice. Social distancing is very important during an epedimic. There is no need to play any game of "political correctness" to appease anybody. Also, these events show why good leadership is important.

Links:

News snippet:
https://vdare.com/posts/mayor-of-floren ... -prejudice

"Hug a chinese" campaign by Mayor:
https://kprcradio.iheart.com/featured/t ... inese-day/


Florence is not the epicenter for the virus. I have family around there and nobody hugged any stranger, that would be just bizarre. From what I've seen on TV, the Chinese community in Italy has been very proactive, doing the social distancing long before it was mandated, quarantining their own, etc. It's not the Chinese that are dying in Italy...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
Posts: 12952
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:28 am

On French public TV today there was a piece about the epidemic viewed from an emergency room. Several old people were seen being brought in seeming to be in an OK shape, able to speak clearly, describe how they felt etc. Saying they were tired since a couple of weeks, had a bit of fever, but that's it. Then the doctor looks at their oxygen saturation and sees it's very low. One of them is also diabetic, they take a chest X-Ray and it looks bad, a few hours later she's dead...

So it seems for people who are due to their age fragile, it's not just a violent illness that kills them, but rather a silent killer, they worsen without even realizing it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MarcoT
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 9:55 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:50 am

theaviator380 wrote:
Hello Folks, hope everyone is safe and sound.

Don't shoot 'ME' for this info as I saw this circulating online so I am just sharing to see your views on it.

So no idea if it's a fake news or factual but worth looking?

_____

Why "Social Distancing" is the most important precaution in the fight against Corona. Live example from last month's history.


I'm sorry, but you knew fully well what you've posted, otherwise you'll not be making excuses in advance.

That piece is a vile example of revolting right wing xenophobic crap.

But most important that piece is BULLSHIT. As in an Everest size serving of bovine manure.

Not only fake news, but absurd, surreal, dada.

The epicenter of the outbreak is Bergamo, some fifty kilometres northeast of Milan, on the foothill of the Alps.
The leather factories are in Prato, ten kilometres from Florence.
A mere 200+ kilometres apart. Beyond the Appennines. Beyond the Gothic Line.
But yes, it was the chines workers in the factories...
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
KL785
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 11:03 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:57 am

lugie wrote:
mham001 wrote:
lugie wrote:
Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).


I don't know where you got the idea it has plateaued or dropped in Germany, that cannot be farther from the truth, as your own link and every other source confirms. "In Germany , the number of reported cases has recently doubled in 4 days"



I might not have been clear in the way I phrased my post, but what I meant - and what the chart on the lower right definitely shows - is that the number of new cases per day has decreased for two days in a row now.

Of course the total number is still increasing and we're far from plateauing, but at least those last two days have shown the growth slowing. Now, was that just a fluke or an indication of a real change in trend? We will find out in the coming days, but for now, those numbers stand.

And once again, sorry for phrasing it in a way that made it seem like I implied case numbers were plateauing or even dropping.


But the numbers of the last two days are not accurate, the RKI says so themself. Over the weekend a lot of new cases are not reported. And why would these numbers decrease? I can think of no reason why the numbers of newly infected should not remain around 30% growth per day. If the partly shutdown of our society effects any change that should not be noticable for another week because of the 14-day incubation period.

So at about the same time when our public health system should begin to be overwhelmed by the sheer number of cases:
https://youtu.be/Fx11Y4xjDwA

Sorry, video in German only. It's by Munich based Professor Harald Lesch calculating that the german public health system can cope with up to 40.000 new cases per day, 2.000 of which requiring ICU treatment. At the current growth rate that should be by the end of the month.
 
Derico
Posts: 4400
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:01 am

Again, some may not like "shutting everything down", but the reason this was done is both objective and subjective. Objectively, this is the FIRST wave of this virus, a virus no one has immunity against, and no one knows how to treat it or lower the death rate. So it does make some sense to take these extreme measures in the first wave in order to avoid infrastructure collapse and unnecessary deaths.

It is totally plausible to assume that the SECOND wave will be significantly less severe because you will have many people already recovered and with immunity in the population, which will slow down A LITTLE the spread. Further, surely there will be some better idea on how to make the disease less deadly by the time the second wave rolls, and that should help even more. Finally, hospitals and governments will be far better prepared with beds to handle the severe cases. So the combination of all these factors will make the second wave more like a whimper, and after that the story will begin to die down. So I don't think it's 18 months or 2 years of what we are experiencing now as extreme pessimists are saying. I think it will be 3-6 intense months and then some reprieve and then 2nd wave but much less scary. Things will be able to return to some normalcy in the next phases of the epidemic.

The other subjective reason is simply fear. No one knew anything about this illness, so is human nature to react with extreme measures to guard oneself.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
chimborazo
Posts: 308
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:07 am

N212R wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Let’s take a real-World example that’s close to my heart. My small local pub is run by three brothers who brew their own beer and have a wood-fired pizza oven. It’s a great place and we and our neighbours love it. They have now been forced to close by direct action of the government. Do you think its unreasonable for that government to support them and help them get through this? They are just one of dozens of small, independent businesses in my home town that will struggle to survive without help.


I bought a fancy outboard boat with all the trimmings to regularly use on my local lake . It's a great boat and we an our friends love it. The bad news is I've had to put it on the hoist for the foreseeable future. The government has closed the entire lake due to a bad invasive species outbreak.

Do you think it's reasonable for the government to make my boat payments?


You’ve missed the point here: Scbriml (With whom I would mostly disagree with everything he writes on this forum by the way) is setting the scene by describing the venue but the content is about those people who cannot make their living. He loses nothing financially by not going to the battle cruiser (= boozer... pub) maybe saves a few quid in reality. BUT because he cannot do that due to a government directive, those owners now face financial hardship.

You may have to make payments on your hypothetical boat but if you cannot use it there is no financial loss you just lose the enjoyment (and save the money on petrol).

For your comparison to work you’d have to explain to us how not using your boat (an item for pleasure of you and your friends) causes you financial hardship...?
 
MarcoT
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 9:55 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:11 am

News from Italy:

After two weeks of lockdown, as hoped, we are seeing the first signs of a slowdown:

- a 15% decline in new cases (from 6557 to 5560)

- a 18% decline in new deaths (from 793 to 651)

North of 258,000 tests made, running now around 25000 tests / day

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... 2-2020.jpg
https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blo ... ionale.csv
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coro ... c_in_Italy
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:39 am

Michigan jumped from 549 to 1035 in one day. We are #5 in the country. Most +ve cases are from City of Detroit. Not sure if a cluster is emerging, or what.

People are not heeding to stay-at-home requests. I can understand someone who lives in an urban center high-rise apartment have to get some fresh air. There is no need to congregate at local parks if you live in suburbia with backyards. Sure it is difficult but it is temporary.

Governor is trying her best to force a virtual shutdown, by closing non-essential businesses.

One week into stay-at-home recommendation, haven't made a dent.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:32 am

And so it begins...Canada won't send its athletes to the Olympics if they remain held in 2020: From the Toronto Star: https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/ ... feren.html

Separately, Australia has told its athletes to prepare for an Olympics in (northern) Summer 2021.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:07 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
And so it begins...Canada won't send its athletes to the Olympics if they remain held in 2020: From the Toronto Star: https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/ ... feren.html

Separately, Australia has told its athletes to prepare for an Olympics in (northern) Summer 2021.


The Tokyo organizers must be quaking in their boots lol
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
N212R
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:13 am

chimborazo wrote:
For your comparison to work you’d have to explain to us how not using your boat (an item for pleasure of you and your friends) causes you financial hardship...?


Not sure that "financial hardship" should be the abstract criteria that automatically qualifies someone for freshly-printed government dollars. Strikes me as a very slippery, debt-reinforced slope to start down. If your business is in tornado country, do you expect the insurance company to reimburse the supplemental catastrophe payments in case of NOT suffering tornado damage?

I've now opened a charter company to ferry paying tourist across the lake. When I don't have anything scheduled I use the same boat to take family and friends on extended pleasure "cruises". Do I still knock on the government's door for hardship money? How and how much will the float amount (boat pun unintented) be decided?

I don't believe in prolonging the harder times by subscribing to the chimerical idea that Big Government is all providential.
Last edited by N212R on Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Insertnamehere
Posts: 296
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:21 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Michigan jumped from 549 to 1035 in one day. We are #5 in the country. Most +ve cases are from City of Detroit. Not sure if a cluster is emerging, or what.

People are not heeding to stay-at-home requests. I can understand someone who lives in an urban center high-rise apartment have to get some fresh air. There is no need to congregate at local parks if you live in suburbia with backyards. Sure it is difficult but it is temporary.

Governor is trying her best to force a virtual shutdown, by closing non-essential businesses.

One week into stay-at-home recommendation, haven't made a dent.


Its hard to get accurate data at the moment as the United States is finally testing more.

The closest thing we can get to accurate data might be the New Rochelle Outbreak in New York as that was one of the first clusters and had restrictions along with good testing, and according to Governor Cuomo yesterday its beginning to slow down.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1179
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:50 am

MarcoT wrote:
News from Italy:

After two weeks of lockdown, as hoped, we are seeing the first signs of a slowdown:

- a 15% decline in new cases (from 6557 to 5560)

- a 18% decline in new deaths (from 793 to 651)

North of 258,000 tests made, running now around 25000 tests / day

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... 2-2020.jpg
https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/blo ... ionale.csv
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coro ... c_in_Italy


Let's hope that this is a tendency, but unfortunately I doubt it.
If you look at the "daily new cases graph" for Italy, at the end of each weekend there is a decrease in reported daily new cases.
This is probably because there is less lab capacity on weekends, or less people being tested on weekends, also many private practices are not operating on weekends, so you would typically see less new cases announced on a Monday. Every 7 days, at the end of the weekend, there is a marked decline of new cases as you can see from that graph.
This same result is seen on the graph of "daily new deaths".

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... try/italy/

You can find this same tendency at the end of each weekend for France, UK and Belgium as well:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ry/france/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... y/belgium/

As a similar tendency was seen in Belgium and some started expressing a similar optimism, Belgian virologist Van Ranst who is leaing the testing and reporting for Belgium said that numbers don't come through smoothly on weekends, so it tends to show a decrease, but it's going to get worse (in Belgium) before it will get better.
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20200322_04898150

So IMO it's false hope and Italy will see 4-digit daily death numbers in a couple of days.
It's noteworthy that we don't have to explain anymore that this is not comparable to the flu. I think that people got it.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 12763
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:38 am

mham001 wrote:
lugie wrote:
Meanwhile, daily new infections in Germany have dropped the second day in a row: https://www.zeit.de/wissen/gesundheit/2 ... emie-karte (link in German, the bar graph on daily new infections can be found to the right of the map of Germany, below the curve displaying cumulative infection numbers).


I don't know where you got the idea it has plateaued or dropped in Germany, that cannot be farther from the truth, as your own link and every other source confirms. "In Germany , the number of reported cases has recently doubled in 4 days"


That is 20% day over day, and hence much better than the 30% few days ago, where 4 days would have almost tripled the number of infected. But then again it was a weekend, so I guess there will be some catching up today.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6

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