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T4thH
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:56 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
And some tests are giving an 80% false positive. Further evidence that this is being overblown and we are headed into an economic depression of our own making.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... are-faulty


Heard there is a joke/meme going around in India. Generally, Chinese products are low-quality, how come COVID-19 is of such high quality.

Close to home.
Michigan is now headline news. Still beats me, why the City of Detroit and Wayne County has so many cases. Unless the state gives data by zip code, this is a mystery. It is not that Detroiters are globetrotters.

Oakland County is not far behind

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/politics ... index.html

The state HHS started published total specimen numbers.

https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0, ... --,00.html


There are more than enough different good tests in the world. They have just to buy/order one of the good ones and not one of the few bad. And perhaps, first they have to test how good these are and neither take the first one or the cheapest. Some countries are working on Coronavirus-tests against different Coronavirus strains since more than a decade, if they would have asked the RKI in Germany, pretty sure, they would have got it to produce it by themselves. The German Covid 19-test is already one decade old and available.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:08 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
These Swedes they are really such "bad" people, they prefer money over health


Swedes or not, people who value money over health are, in my humble opinion, "bad" people.
@DadCelo
 
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zkojq
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:48 am

So people here who reject the Scandinavian model are saying that Sweden is the example to follow because the Scandinavian model makes them better prepared with superior healthcare and hospitals? :banghead:

I'm glad that my government is taking a similar approach to Denmark, personally. :cloudnine:
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:50 am

zkojq wrote:
So people here who reject the Scandinavian model are saying that Sweden is the example to follow because the Scandinavian model makes them better prepared with superior healthcare and hospitals? :banghead:

I'm glad that my government is taking a similar approach to Denmark, personally. :cloudnine:


Irony, like high school math, is lost on these folks. :boggled:
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par13del
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:59 am

Wonder what the education level is in Sweden, can't be that high based on our virus group think.
 
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JetBuddy
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:08 am

The official number of deaths in China due to Coronavirus is 3,287, according to the Chinese Communist Party

The number of mobile phone subscriptions vanished in thin air in China since January = 21 million.

Now let's say 99% of those are explainable by people losing their jobs and selling their phones, or businesses going bankrupt and closing subscriptions.

That still leaves 210,000..

Believing the CCP numbers on Coronavirus is like believing the Soviet/Russian numbers on Chernobyl, which is 31 people dead.

Great video on this topic by laowhy86 who is an expert on China after living there, working there and travelling all over the country for a decade. He knows China better than most Chinese people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1F_kWYdqUY
 
speedking
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:12 am

par13del wrote:
Wonder what the education level is in Sweden, can't be that high based on our virus group think.


No, I'm afraid not. If you would fly today to Stockholm, you would wonder if you took a wrong flight and ended up somewhere 4000 miles south.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1363
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:12 am

Germany and Netherlands block European Marshall plan supported by Spain and Italy after a heated debate.
They'll be discussing it again in 15 days, until then plans need to be drafted and submitted.

Austria and The Netherlands are leading the self-reliance line, with Germany rejecting the issuance of "Coronabonds."
Italy, France and Spain are in favor of the issuance of bonds and sharing the cost of this calamity.

https://elpais.com/economia/2020-03-26/ ... taria.html

Germany, Austria and Netherlands better be careful what they wish for. These countries are at risk of being overwhelmed too.

They are als at risk of repeating the measures of the GFC, when they strangled other EU countries with austerity over austerity.
This one can strangle them too.

Ironically, the Shenghen area marked its 25th birthday with border closures between signatories....
 
ltbewr
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:32 am

It is estimated that the peak in the NYC area will be in 2-3 weeks but that the social distancing is slowing the rate of increase of those needing hospitalizations. That is critical to know, that means a slightly better chance of limiting the loss of life from this pandemic. Still, 1000's of lives will be lost in the NYC area alone and as the peak may be a little later elsewhere, we need to continue in most of USA the social distancing for likely into late May or we will lose millions of lives, not a still bad several 100,000's.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:50 am

ltbewr wrote:
It is estimated that the peak in the NYC area will be in 2-3 weeks but that the social distancing is slowing the rate of increase of those needing hospitalizations. That is critical to know, that means a slightly better chance of limiting the loss of life from this pandemic. Still, 1000's of lives will be lost in the NYC area alone and as the peak may be a little later elsewhere, we need to continue in most of USA the social distancing for likely into late May or we will lose millions of lives, not a still bad several 100,000's.


But mostly non-productive citizens, so the current admin is aiming for higher numbers, with the hope of minorities and poor being hit harder of course.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:58 am

ltbewr wrote:
It is estimated that the peak in the NYC area will be in 2-3 weeks but that the social distancing is slowing the rate of increase of those needing hospitalizations. That is critical to know, that means a slightly better chance of limiting the loss of life from this pandemic. Still, 1000's of lives will be lost in the NYC area alone and as the peak may be a little later elsewhere, we need to continue in most of USA the social distancing for likely into late May or we will lose millions of lives, not a still bad several 100,000's.


And why would the amount of deaths in the US be so dramatically higher than anywhere else in the world? Several 100,000's?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:13 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
It is estimated that the peak in the NYC area will be in 2-3 weeks but that the social distancing is slowing the rate of increase of those needing hospitalizations. That is critical to know, that means a slightly better chance of limiting the loss of life from this pandemic. Still, 1000's of lives will be lost in the NYC area alone and as the peak may be a little later elsewhere, we need to continue in most of USA the social distancing for likely into late May or we will lose millions of lives, not a still bad several 100,000's.


And why would the amount of deaths in the US be so dramatically higher than anywhere else in the world? Several 100,000's?


Doubling the case number every two days instead of every three adds up rather quickly.

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
N757ST
Posts: 1034
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:24 am

tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
It is estimated that the peak in the NYC area will be in 2-3 weeks but that the social distancing is slowing the rate of increase of those needing hospitalizations. That is critical to know, that means a slightly better chance of limiting the loss of life from this pandemic. Still, 1000's of lives will be lost in the NYC area alone and as the peak may be a little later elsewhere, we need to continue in most of USA the social distancing for likely into late May or we will lose millions of lives, not a still bad several 100,000's.


And why would the amount of deaths in the US be so dramatically higher than anywhere else in the world? Several 100,000's?


Doubling the case number every two days instead of every three adds up rather quickly.

Best regards
Thomas


Once again, the number isn’t necessarily jumping every 2 days. When someone contracts Covid-19 a bell doesn’t ring somewhere and tick mark hits the web. Testing in the states is ramping up, rapidly, but they are still behind in processing many tests that were taken up to a week ago. So the amount of positive tests is doubling every 2 days, that doesn’t mean that the infected to positive tested ratios are directly correlating. Yes, there is likely spread going on, but until we roll out a quick test we don’t know the true rate of advancement of this virus, and considering the long incubation period it could be weeks before you truly get a sense whether what you’re doing is working or not.
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:31 am

A good explanation of why NYC was hit so hard. Their officials even encouraged people to attend parades and ride the subways claiming NYC had a very low chance of a coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-ONfh5jQb ... hnawcz34m7
 
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Tugger
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:51 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
And why would the amount of deaths in the US be so dramatically higher than anywhere else in the world? Several 100,000's?

Well one thing, independent accounting, and an independent press digging, means we are more likely to have an accurate accounting of the actual effects of the disease.

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
There are many kinds of sentences that we think state facts about the world but that are really just expressions of our attitudes. - F. Ramsey
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 12731
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:15 am

N757ST wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

And why would the amount of deaths in the US be so dramatically higher than anywhere else in the world? Several 100,000's?


Doubling the case number every two days instead of every three adds up rather quickly.

Best regards
Thomas


Once again, the number isn’t necessarily jumping every 2 days. When someone contracts Covid-19 a bell doesn’t ring somewhere and tick mark hits the web. Testing in the states is ramping up, rapidly, but they are still behind in processing many tests that were taken up to a week ago. So the amount of positive tests is doubling every 2 days, that doesn’t mean that the infected to positive tested ratios are directly correlating. Yes, there is likely spread going on, but until we roll out a quick test we don’t know the true rate of advancement of this virus, and considering the long incubation period it could be weeks before you truly get a sense whether what you’re doing is working or not.


An antibody confirmation test is in the works - but until available it won’t be possible to have precise tracking on the number of infected who have already cleared potential disease or shedding stages via developing their own immunity. Also they’re still not sure how immunity correlates between the two primary strains.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:55 am

Epidemiologist Behind Highly-Cited Coronavirus Model Admits He Was Wrong, Drastically Revises Model

Amanda Prestigiacomo

March 26th, 2020


https://www.dailywire.com/news/epidemio ... ises-model

Epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, who created the highly-cited Imperial College London coronavirus model, which has been cited by organizations like The New York Times and has been instrumental in governmental policy decision-making, offered a massive revision to his model on Wednesday.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:18 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Epidemiologist Behind Highly-Cited Coronavirus Model Admits He Was Wrong, Drastically Revises Model

Amanda Prestigiacomo

March 26th, 2020


https://www.dailywire.com/news/epidemio ... ises-model

Epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, who created the highly-cited Imperial College London coronavirus model, which has been cited by organizations like The New York Times and has been instrumental in governmental policy decision-making, offered a massive revision to his model on Wednesday.


from the update they are hiding at the end of the article:

I think it would be helpful if I cleared up some confusion that has emerged in recent days. Some have interpreted my evidence to a UK parliamentary committee as indicating we have substantially revised our assessments of the potential mortality impact of COVID-19. This is not the case. Indeed, if anything, our latest estimates suggest that the virus is slightly more transmissible than we previously thought. Our lethality estimates remain unchanged. My evidence to Parliament referred to the deaths we assess might occur in the UK in the presence of the very intensive social distancing and other public health interventions now in place. Without those controls, our assessment remains that the UK would see the scale of deaths reported in our study (namely, up to approximately 500 thousand).


best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:37 am

tommy1808 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Epidemiologist Behind Highly-Cited Coronavirus Model Admits He Was Wrong, Drastically Revises Model

Amanda Prestigiacomo

March 26th, 2020


https://www.dailywire.com/news/epidemio ... ises-model

Epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, who created the highly-cited Imperial College London coronavirus model, which has been cited by organizations like The New York Times and has been instrumental in governmental policy decision-making, offered a massive revision to his model on Wednesday.


from the update they are hiding at the end of the article:

I think it would be helpful if I cleared up some confusion that has emerged in recent days. Some have interpreted my evidence to a UK parliamentary committee as indicating we have substantially revised our assessments of the potential mortality impact of COVID-19. This is not the case. Indeed, if anything, our latest estimates suggest that the virus is slightly more transmissible than we previously thought. Our lethality estimates remain unchanged. My evidence to Parliament referred to the deaths we assess might occur in the UK in the presence of the very intensive social distancing and other public health interventions now in place. Without those controls, our assessment remains that the UK would see the scale of deaths reported in our study (namely, up to approximately 500 thousand).


best regards
Thomas


I get the distinct impression a lot of people read only headlines and never the article contents - and if they do it’s skimming at best.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1363
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:48 am

American politicians and policy makers seem more concerned with their little stimulus package than what is going on in hospitals.
They are giving the numbers: so many masks, so many this, so many that.
"Open for business by Easter", "everybody packed in churches by Easter".
Stock markets climbing like they have never done before.

However, no plans to help de-escalate the situation in NYC.
No plans to ground airlines despite deaths among cabin crew and ground staff, infections among ATCo's, and the virus spreading like nothing has ever spread before to every county in the United States.
No plans to protect nursing homes.
No plans to enforce lockdowns.
No plans to close schools and universities, except in hotspots.
No plans to close non-essential businesses.


Do all Americans think that money is going to save them from Covid19 or is it just the idiots at the top?
"The dollar is your vaccine"?



In the meanwhile, Germany has taken patients from Italy and France, despite that they are countries with different languages.
Not many, but they did.
There is more unity between the mosaic that is the European Union; than within the United States.
In Italy and Europe, money is flowing in the background, donations flowing right and left.
Newspapers are talking about the frontlines, not about the money.

Image

https://www.corriere.it/esteri/20_marzo ... 68fe.shtml
 
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Jouhou
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:10 am

Jalap wrote:
DL717 wrote:
I’m at the point now where the question turns to asking how many people will die from this vs. die from starvation under the weight of a massive economic depression.

The food production will hardly be affected at all.
People in the West can only starve to death if this is what the majority wants.
Or if the country falls into anarchy. Then the food will be for those who own the largest guns. Hope there aren't too many guns in your country...


While discussing supply chain issues with a coworker he lamented that he was unable to find any gunpowder. Guns don't do much if you don't have what you need to actually propel the ammo.
Waterbomber2 wrote:
American politicians and policy makers seem more concerned with their little stimulus package than what is going on in hospitals.
They are giving the numbers: so many masks, so many this, so many that.
"Open for business by Easter", "everybody packed in churches by Easter".
Stock markets climbing like they have never done before.

However, no plans to help de-escalate the situation in NYC.
No plans to ground airlines despite deaths among cabin crew and ground staff, infections among ATCo's, and the virus spreading like nothing has ever spread before to every county in the United States.
No plans to protect nursing homes.
No plans to enforce lockdowns.
No plans to close schools and universities, except in hotspots.
No plans to close non-essential businesses.


Do all Americans think that money is going to save them from Covid19 or is it just the idiots at the top?
"The dollar is your vaccine"?



In the meanwhile, Germany has taken patients from Italy and France, despite that they are countries with different languages.
Not many, but they did.
There is more unity between the mosaic that is the European Union; than within the United States.
In Italy and Europe, money is flowing in the background, donations flowing right and left.
Newspapers are talking about the frontlines, not about the money.

Image

https://www.corriere.it/esteri/20_marzo ... 68fe.shtml


The U.S. Is politically sharply divided. Basically anyone who doesn't take the words of a certain politician as gospel and are looking to professionals for guidance realize there is no functioning economy without putting the brakes on this virus.

And that's not a (D) vs. (R) thing. Rs who are more loyal to their party than that certain politician are thinking for their selves and have accepted this reality. Regardless of whether lives or the economy are more important to you, both benefit from stopping the virus sooner rather than later. The longer we delay, the more the economy is traumatized and lives will exponentially be lost. This is not a case of benefiting one taking away from the other. Trying to stay open for business beyond essential functions will make that feared economic depression a reality.

We could have avoided this if we acted sooner, but we didn't. It will be worse the longer we wait.
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:14 am

Jouhou wrote:
Jalap wrote:
DL717 wrote:
I’m at the point now where the question turns to asking how many people will die from this vs. die from starvation under the weight of a massive economic depression.

The food production will hardly be affected at all.
People in the West can only starve to death if this is what the majority wants.
Or if the country falls into anarchy. Then the food will be for those who own the largest guns. Hope there aren't too many guns in your country...


While discussing supply chain issues with a coworker he lamented that he was unable to find any gunpowder. Guns don't do much if you don't have what you need to actually propel the ammo.
Waterbomber2 wrote:
American politicians and policy makers seem more concerned with their little stimulus package than what is going on in hospitals.
They are giving the numbers: so many masks, so many this, so many that.
"Open for business by Easter", "everybody packed in churches by Easter".
Stock markets climbing like they have never done before.

However, no plans to help de-escalate the situation in NYC.
No plans to ground airlines despite deaths among cabin crew and ground staff, infections among ATCo's, and the virus spreading like nothing has ever spread before to every county in the United States.
No plans to protect nursing homes.
No plans to enforce lockdowns.
No plans to close schools and universities, except in hotspots.
No plans to close non-essential businesses.


Do all Americans think that money is going to save them from Covid19 or is it just the idiots at the top?
"The dollar is your vaccine"?



In the meanwhile, Germany has taken patients from Italy and France, despite that they are countries with different languages.
Not many, but they did.
There is more unity between the mosaic that is the European Union; than within the United States.
In Italy and Europe, money is flowing in the background, donations flowing right and left.
Newspapers are talking about the frontlines, not about the money.

Image

https://www.corriere.it/esteri/20_marzo ... 68fe.shtml


The U.S. Is politically sharply divided. Basically anyone who doesn't take the words of a certain politician as gospel and are looking to professionals for guidance realize there is no functioning economy without putting the brakes on this virus.

And that's not a (D) vs. (R) thing. Rs who are more loyal to their party than that certain politician are thinking for their selves and have accepted this reality. Regardless of whether lives or the economy are more important to you, both benefit from stopping the virus sooner rather than later. The longer we delay, the more the economy is traumatized and lives will exponentially be lost. This is not a case of benefiting one taking away from the other. Trying to stay open for business beyond essential functions will make that feared economic depression a reality.

We could have avoided this if we acted sooner, but we didn't. It will be worse the longer we wait.


Precisely - all of those arguing for reopening en masse ASAP are acting out of either ignorance or omission that exponentiation isn’t a thing.

Bill Gates professorially made essentially the same argument this evening - there is no ‘going back to normal’ until the math has changed. A new normal perhaps, but only that.

https://youtu.be/A71lfXrQlxU
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:16 am

Aaron747 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Epidemiologist Behind Highly-Cited Coronavirus Model Admits He Was Wrong, Drastically Revises Model

Amanda Prestigiacomo

March 26th, 2020


https://www.dailywire.com/news/epidemio ... ises-model

Epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, who created the highly-cited Imperial College London coronavirus model, which has been cited by organizations like The New York Times and has been instrumental in governmental policy decision-making, offered a massive revision to his model on Wednesday.


from the update they are hiding at the end of the article:

I think it would be helpful if I cleared up some confusion that has emerged in recent days. Some have interpreted my evidence to a UK parliamentary committee as indicating we have substantially revised our assessments of the potential mortality impact of COVID-19. This is not the case. Indeed, if anything, our latest estimates suggest that the virus is slightly more transmissible than we previously thought. Our lethality estimates remain unchanged. My evidence to Parliament referred to the deaths we assess might occur in the UK in the presence of the very intensive social distancing and other public health interventions now in place. Without those controls, our assessment remains that the UK would see the scale of deaths reported in our study (namely, up to approximately 500 thousand).


best regards
Thomas


I get the distinct impression a lot of people read only headlines and never the article contents - and if they do it’s skimming at best.


I know...you'd think that people only read the headline of their Credit Card Agreement too.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:19 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

from the update they are hiding at the end of the article:



best regards
Thomas


I get the distinct impression a lot of people read only headlines and never the article contents - and if they do it’s skimming at best.


I know...you'd think that people only read the headline of their Credit Card Agreement too.


Straw man and non sequitur all at once - well done!
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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zkojq
Posts: 4390
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:40 am

Looks like the MagaMorons have now decided that Dr Fauci is "a deep state, Hillary loving stooge" because he dared to contradict Trump. Because anyone who doesn't bow down to Trump must be part of a conspiracy to undermine him. :roll:

QAnon-supporting radio host Bill Mitchell has been the biggest promoter of the latest theory. For weeks, Mitchell has been spinning a conspiracy theory that Fauci is a “Democrat plant" and nicknamed him “Dr. #FearPorn.” Mitchell’s first tweets about Fauci date back to March 3, when Fauci first suggested the closure of schools and businesses.

“Sorry President Trump, but replace this crackpot,” Mitchell tweeted. Several minutes later, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci again, “Have you ever seen the market drop 1000 points AFTER a 50 basis point Fed cut? That's #FearPorn. Thanks Dr. Anthony Fauci.”

Mitchell’s ire against Fauci has seemed to grow over time, as he insists the doctor is spreading fear about the outbreak to hurt the US economy. On March 8, Mitchell tweeted a link to a Fox News article about Fauci, writing, “AM I WRONG THINKING THIS FAUCI GUY IS A BIG DEMOCRAT SPREADING FEAR PORN?”

A week later, Mitchell shared a 2009 NIH interview with Fauci providing an update about the then-outbreak of H1N1 influenza. Mitchell insisted Fauci’s apparently calmer demeanor in the video — which was conducted during the Obama administration — was proof that the doctor was now sowing fear about the coronavirus to discredit Trump.

“You'll notice none of the over-the-top hyperbole - none of the panic inducing rhetoric. Watch for yourselves,” Mitchell tweeted.


On the evening of March 20, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci 36 times in 30 minutes. Mitchell was enraged at Fauci going on CNN and publicly disagreeing with Trump’s suggestion that the CDC should allow the use of the anti-malaria drug chloroquine. Subsequently, a man died and his wife needed critical care after they both took a drug containing chloroquine phosphate meant for aquariums after hearing the president speak about the drug.

Mitchell’s tweetstorm against Fauci was intense. He repeatedly accused Fauci of being a Democrat plant, reshared the 2009 H1N1 interview, ran Twitter polls asking his followers if they thought Fauci was a Democrat, accused him of destroying the economy, and demanded Trump fire him.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... te-clinton


What a time to be alive!
First to fly the 787-9
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 12731
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Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:49 am

zkojq wrote:
Looks like the MagaMorons have now decided that Dr Fauci is "a deep state, Hillary loving stooge" because he dared to contradict Trump. Because anyone who doesn't bow down to Trump must be part of a conspiracy to undermine him. :roll:

QAnon-supporting radio host Bill Mitchell has been the biggest promoter of the latest theory. For weeks, Mitchell has been spinning a conspiracy theory that Fauci is a “Democrat plant" and nicknamed him “Dr. #FearPorn.” Mitchell’s first tweets about Fauci date back to March 3, when Fauci first suggested the closure of schools and businesses.

“Sorry President Trump, but replace this crackpot,” Mitchell tweeted. Several minutes later, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci again, “Have you ever seen the market drop 1000 points AFTER a 50 basis point Fed cut? That's #FearPorn. Thanks Dr. Anthony Fauci.”

Mitchell’s ire against Fauci has seemed to grow over time, as he insists the doctor is spreading fear about the outbreak to hurt the US economy. On March 8, Mitchell tweeted a link to a Fox News article about Fauci, writing, “AM I WRONG THINKING THIS FAUCI GUY IS A BIG DEMOCRAT SPREADING FEAR PORN?”

A week later, Mitchell shared a 2009 NIH interview with Fauci providing an update about the then-outbreak of H1N1 influenza. Mitchell insisted Fauci’s apparently calmer demeanor in the video — which was conducted during the Obama administration — was proof that the doctor was now sowing fear about the coronavirus to discredit Trump.

“You'll notice none of the over-the-top hyperbole - none of the panic inducing rhetoric. Watch for yourselves,” Mitchell tweeted.


On the evening of March 20, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci 36 times in 30 minutes. Mitchell was enraged at Fauci going on CNN and publicly disagreeing with Trump’s suggestion that the CDC should allow the use of the anti-malaria drug chloroquine. Subsequently, a man died and his wife needed critical care after they both took a drug containing chloroquine phosphate meant for aquariums after hearing the president speak about the drug.

Mitchell’s tweetstorm against Fauci was intense. He repeatedly accused Fauci of being a Democrat plant, reshared the 2009 H1N1 interview, ran Twitter polls asking his followers if they thought Fauci was a Democrat, accused him of destroying the economy, and demanded Trump fire him.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... te-clinton


What a time to be alive!


FFS - Dr. Fauci has worked under every POTUS since 40, so that must make him ‘establishment’? In another universe, people who survive that long in a demanding scientific field are usually called ‘competent’. These people are misinformation agents of the first order. :banghead:
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
yonahleung
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:55 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:59 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Epidemiologist Behind Highly-Cited Coronavirus Model Admits He Was Wrong, Drastically Revises Model

Amanda Prestigiacomo

March 26th, 2020


https://www.dailywire.com/news/epidemio ... ises-model

Epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, who created the highly-cited Imperial College London coronavirus model, which has been cited by organizations like The New York Times and has been instrumental in governmental policy decision-making, offered a massive revision to his model on Wednesday.

This is simply not true... The articles has already issued its own amendment and basically the figures are unchanged.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:08 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
American politicians and policy makers seem more concerned with their little stimulus package than what is going on in hospitals.
They are giving the numbers: so many masks, so many this, so many that.
"Open for business by Easter", "everybody packed in churches by Easter".
Stock markets climbing like they have never done before.

However, no plans to help de-escalate the situation in NYC.
No plans to ground airlines despite deaths among cabin crew and ground staff, infections among ATCo's, and the virus spreading like nothing has ever spread before to every county in the United States.
No plans to protect nursing homes.
No plans to enforce lockdowns.
No plans to close schools and universities, except in hotspots.
No plans to close non-essential businesses.


Do all Americans think that money is going to save them from Covid19 or is it just the idiots at the top?
"The dollar is your vaccine"?



In the meanwhile, Germany has taken patients from Italy and France, despite that they are countries with different languages.
Not many, but they did.
There is more unity between the mosaic that is the European Union; than within the United States.
In Italy and Europe, money is flowing in the background, donations flowing right and left.
Newspapers are talking about the frontlines, not about the money.

Image

https://www.corriere.it/esteri/20_marzo ... 68fe.shtml


Don’t worry. “The believers” can just shoot the virus from home. The more responsible ones will take the virus to a range and shoot it.

Seriously though: I sincerely hope it doesn’t affect our cousins on the West side of the Atlantic as badly as it is seeming to this side. But PLAN for the worst and HOPE for the best. Plan and hope for the best and it will likely go massively wrong- very quickly.

I’m amazed that some in here with military backgrounds don’t seem to understand the 7 “P”s...
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:14 am

zkojq wrote:
Looks like the MagaMorons have now decided that Dr Fauci is "a deep state, Hillary loving stooge" because he dared to contradict Trump. Because anyone who doesn't bow down to Trump must be part of a conspiracy to undermine him. :roll:

QAnon-supporting radio host Bill Mitchell has been the biggest promoter of the latest theory. For weeks, Mitchell has been spinning a conspiracy theory that Fauci is a “Democrat plant" and nicknamed him “Dr. #FearPorn.” Mitchell’s first tweets about Fauci date back to March 3, when Fauci first suggested the closure of schools and businesses.

“Sorry President Trump, but replace this crackpot,” Mitchell tweeted. Several minutes later, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci again, “Have you ever seen the market drop 1000 points AFTER a 50 basis point Fed cut? That's #FearPorn. Thanks Dr. Anthony Fauci.”

Mitchell’s ire against Fauci has seemed to grow over time, as he insists the doctor is spreading fear about the outbreak to hurt the US economy. On March 8, Mitchell tweeted a link to a Fox News article about Fauci, writing, “AM I WRONG THINKING THIS FAUCI GUY IS A BIG DEMOCRAT SPREADING FEAR PORN?”

A week later, Mitchell shared a 2009 NIH interview with Fauci providing an update about the then-outbreak of H1N1 influenza. Mitchell insisted Fauci’s apparently calmer demeanor in the video — which was conducted during the Obama administration — was proof that the doctor was now sowing fear about the coronavirus to discredit Trump.

“You'll notice none of the over-the-top hyperbole - none of the panic inducing rhetoric. Watch for yourselves,” Mitchell tweeted.


On the evening of March 20, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci 36 times in 30 minutes. Mitchell was enraged at Fauci going on CNN and publicly disagreeing with Trump’s suggestion that the CDC should allow the use of the anti-malaria drug chloroquine. Subsequently, a man died and his wife needed critical care after they both took a drug containing chloroquine phosphate meant for aquariums after hearing the president speak about the drug.

Mitchell’s tweetstorm against Fauci was intense. He repeatedly accused Fauci of being a Democrat plant, reshared the 2009 H1N1 interview, ran Twitter polls asking his followers if they thought Fauci was a Democrat, accused him of destroying the economy, and demanded Trump fire him.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... te-clinton


What a time to be alive!


We can't afford to have a response more disorganized than we already have. Please, people in the US, reach out to the conservative leaning people you know. Don't accuse them of being Trump supporters or attack their political views- highlight how seriously congressional republicans and other prominent Republican leaders are taking this. Praise the ones who have shown strong leadership on this issue. Explain how the economy will recover fastest if we take strong action now.

We can't afford a bunch of conspiracy theorists forming a social media lynch mob against Fauci and egging Trump on to remove him. That will ruin the economy and cause massive casualties. We've run out of time to get our shit together. Break the group-think now. Be diplomatic.

I've been reaching out to every conservative I know and have helped prepare them and arm them with information early on, 9/10 understand the seriousness of the situation and were much more open to information if I mentioned other prominent conservatives agree with it. Many will open up their minds on an issue they see as politicized and go against Trump if they know the majority of Republican leadership is taking a much more serious stance.

Ds, don't let partisanship get in the way of saving our country and talking to Rs diplomatically. Yes, Republican politicians in both the Senate and House have been serious about this and some have shown exceptional leadership- but that doesn't make headlines. You gotta watch some cspan clips to find it.
情報
 
tommy1808
Posts: 13782
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:17 am

zkojq wrote:
Looks like the MagaMorons have now decided that Dr Fauci is "a deep state, Hillary loving stooge" because he dared to contradict Trump. Because anyone who doesn't bow down to Trump must be part of a conspiracy to undermine him. :roll:

QAnon-supporting radio host Bill Mitchell has been the biggest promoter of the latest theory. For weeks, Mitchell has been spinning a conspiracy theory that Fauci is a “Democrat plant" and nicknamed him “Dr. #FearPorn.” Mitchell’s first tweets about Fauci date back to March 3, when Fauci first suggested the closure of schools and businesses.

“Sorry President Trump, but replace this crackpot,” Mitchell tweeted. Several minutes later, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci again, “Have you ever seen the market drop 1000 points AFTER a 50 basis point Fed cut? That's #FearPorn. Thanks Dr. Anthony Fauci.”

Mitchell’s ire against Fauci has seemed to grow over time, as he insists the doctor is spreading fear about the outbreak to hurt the US economy. On March 8, Mitchell tweeted a link to a Fox News article about Fauci, writing, “AM I WRONG THINKING THIS FAUCI GUY IS A BIG DEMOCRAT SPREADING FEAR PORN?”

A week later, Mitchell shared a 2009 NIH interview with Fauci providing an update about the then-outbreak of H1N1 influenza. Mitchell insisted Fauci’s apparently calmer demeanor in the video — which was conducted during the Obama administration — was proof that the doctor was now sowing fear about the coronavirus to discredit Trump.

“You'll notice none of the over-the-top hyperbole - none of the panic inducing rhetoric. Watch for yourselves,” Mitchell tweeted.


On the evening of March 20, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci 36 times in 30 minutes. Mitchell was enraged at Fauci going on CNN and publicly disagreeing with Trump’s suggestion that the CDC should allow the use of the anti-malaria drug chloroquine. Subsequently, a man died and his wife needed critical care after they both took a drug containing chloroquine phosphate meant for aquariums after hearing the president speak about the drug.

Mitchell’s tweetstorm against Fauci was intense. He repeatedly accused Fauci of being a Democrat plant, reshared the 2009 H1N1 interview, ran Twitter polls asking his followers if they thought Fauci was a Democrat, accused him of destroying the economy, and demanded Trump fire him.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... te-clinton


What a time to be alive!


“Sorry President Trump, but replace this crackpot President,” ... “Have you ever seen the market drop 1000 points AFTER an Oval Office Adress? That's #StupidGate #Fearporn. Thanks Donald.”

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2484
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:33 am

Jouhou wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Looks like the MagaMorons have now decided that Dr Fauci is "a deep state, Hillary loving stooge" because he dared to contradict Trump. Because anyone who doesn't bow down to Trump must be part of a conspiracy to undermine him. :roll:

QAnon-supporting radio host Bill Mitchell has been the biggest promoter of the latest theory. For weeks, Mitchell has been spinning a conspiracy theory that Fauci is a “Democrat plant" and nicknamed him “Dr. #FearPorn.” Mitchell’s first tweets about Fauci date back to March 3, when Fauci first suggested the closure of schools and businesses.

“Sorry President Trump, but replace this crackpot,” Mitchell tweeted. Several minutes later, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci again, “Have you ever seen the market drop 1000 points AFTER a 50 basis point Fed cut? That's #FearPorn. Thanks Dr. Anthony Fauci.”

Mitchell’s ire against Fauci has seemed to grow over time, as he insists the doctor is spreading fear about the outbreak to hurt the US economy. On March 8, Mitchell tweeted a link to a Fox News article about Fauci, writing, “AM I WRONG THINKING THIS FAUCI GUY IS A BIG DEMOCRAT SPREADING FEAR PORN?”

A week later, Mitchell shared a 2009 NIH interview with Fauci providing an update about the then-outbreak of H1N1 influenza. Mitchell insisted Fauci’s apparently calmer demeanor in the video — which was conducted during the Obama administration — was proof that the doctor was now sowing fear about the coronavirus to discredit Trump.

“You'll notice none of the over-the-top hyperbole - none of the panic inducing rhetoric. Watch for yourselves,” Mitchell tweeted.


On the evening of March 20, Mitchell tweeted about Fauci 36 times in 30 minutes. Mitchell was enraged at Fauci going on CNN and publicly disagreeing with Trump’s suggestion that the CDC should allow the use of the anti-malaria drug chloroquine. Subsequently, a man died and his wife needed critical care after they both took a drug containing chloroquine phosphate meant for aquariums after hearing the president speak about the drug.

Mitchell’s tweetstorm against Fauci was intense. He repeatedly accused Fauci of being a Democrat plant, reshared the 2009 H1N1 interview, ran Twitter polls asking his followers if they thought Fauci was a Democrat, accused him of destroying the economy, and demanded Trump fire him.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... te-clinton


What a time to be alive!


We can't afford to have a response more disorganized than we already have. Please, people in the US, reach out to the conservative leaning people you know. Don't accuse them of being Trump supporters or attack their political views- highlight how seriously congressional republicans and other prominent Republican leaders are taking this. Praise the ones who have shown strong leadership on this issue. Explain how the economy will recover fastest if we take strong action now.

We can't afford a bunch of conspiracy theorists forming a social media lynch mob against Fauci and egging Trump on to remove him. That will ruin the economy and cause massive casualties. We've run out of time to get our shit together. Break the group-think now. Be diplomatic.

I've been reaching out to every conservative I know and have helped prepare them and arm them with information early on, 9/10 understand the seriousness of the situation and were much more open to information if I mentioned other prominent conservatives agree with it. Many will open up their minds on an issue they see as politicized and go against Trump if they know the majority of Republican leadership is taking a much more serious stance.

Ds, don't let partisanship get in the way of saving our country and talking to Rs diplomatically. Yes, Republican politicians in both the Senate and House have been serious about this and some have shown exceptional leadership- but that doesn't make headlines. You gotta watch some cspan clips to find it.


I'm a liberal D and there was a little bit before 45 mentioned reopening by Easter that I thought he was doing a decent job...better than I thought he would do anyway. The hospitals are now filling up, and wait until they fill up in red states...they might have a fit. Or they might keep their American dream of individualism and exceptionalism going. Or maybe they'll be dead or permanently disabled. I'm glad the Dems in the senate supported passing the $2T bill. Reps couldn't hardly support Obama's $787B bill to keep the economy going during the GFC. Perhaps this crisis will lead to more protections for workers and universal health care after all, that would be a good thing. I can't help but think how stupid the states that refused to expand Medicaid are...very, very simple minded and selfish.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:58 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Looks like the MagaMorons have now decided that Dr Fauci is "a deep state, Hillary loving stooge" because he dared to contradict Trump. Because anyone who doesn't bow down to Trump must be part of a conspiracy to undermine him. :roll:



https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ry ... te-clinton


What a time to be alive!


We can't afford to have a response more disorganized than we already have. Please, people in the US, reach out to the conservative leaning people you know. Don't accuse them of being Trump supporters or attack their political views- highlight how seriously congressional republicans and other prominent Republican leaders are taking this. Praise the ones who have shown strong leadership on this issue. Explain how the economy will recover fastest if we take strong action now.

We can't afford a bunch of conspiracy theorists forming a social media lynch mob against Fauci and egging Trump on to remove him. That will ruin the economy and cause massive casualties. We've run out of time to get our shit together. Break the group-think now. Be diplomatic.

I've been reaching out to every conservative I know and have helped prepare them and arm them with information early on, 9/10 understand the seriousness of the situation and were much more open to information if I mentioned other prominent conservatives agree with it. Many will open up their minds on an issue they see as politicized and go against Trump if they know the majority of Republican leadership is taking a much more serious stance.

Ds, don't let partisanship get in the way of saving our country and talking to Rs diplomatically. Yes, Republican politicians in both the Senate and House have been serious about this and some have shown exceptional leadership- but that doesn't make headlines. You gotta watch some cspan clips to find it.


I'm a liberal D and there was a little bit before 45 mentioned reopening by Easter that I thought he was doing a decent job...better than I thought he would do anyway. The hospitals are now filling up, and wait until they fill up in red states...they might have a fit. Or they might keep their American dream of individualism and exceptionalism going. Or maybe they'll be dead or permanently disabled. I'm glad the Dems in the senate supported passing the $2T bill. Reps couldn't hardly support Obama's $787B bill to keep the economy going during the GFC. Perhaps this crisis will lead to more protections for workers and universal health care after all, that would be a good thing. I can't help but think how stupid the states that refused to expand Medicaid are...very, very simple minded and selfish.


I was very (I) before the Trump Train came crashing into our reality. I became strongly partisan because of the guy. But I know our country and the well-being of every American is far more important than partisan bickering. This crisis is more important than any political issue we've been fighting over this whole time. I'm being as (I) as possible despite our president telling people the exact opposite of what he needs to be saying everyday. Trump supporters care about our country just as much as the rest of us. While we disagree on what's best for our country frequently, if they accept how big of a threat this virus really is they would be in agreement with everyone else that stopping it is best for our country. Unfortunately a leader they look up to and trust is misinforming them on how dangerous this is.




I'd also like to remind everyone the last President to properly invest in pandemic prep was........... George W. Bush.

He (and really his admin) was the reason why we had more than 100 million masks in the SNS when the pandemic 2009 H1N1 hit to ship out in support of our healthcare workers. They never got replaced.
情報
 
User avatar
Pellegrine
Posts: 2484
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:19 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:17 am

Jouhou wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

We can't afford to have a response more disorganized than we already have. Please, people in the US, reach out to the conservative leaning people you know. Don't accuse them of being Trump supporters or attack their political views- highlight how seriously congressional republicans and other prominent Republican leaders are taking this. Praise the ones who have shown strong leadership on this issue. Explain how the economy will recover fastest if we take strong action now.

We can't afford a bunch of conspiracy theorists forming a social media lynch mob against Fauci and egging Trump on to remove him. That will ruin the economy and cause massive casualties. We've run out of time to get our shit together. Break the group-think now. Be diplomatic.

I've been reaching out to every conservative I know and have helped prepare them and arm them with information early on, 9/10 understand the seriousness of the situation and were much more open to information if I mentioned other prominent conservatives agree with it. Many will open up their minds on an issue they see as politicized and go against Trump if they know the majority of Republican leadership is taking a much more serious stance.

Ds, don't let partisanship get in the way of saving our country and talking to Rs diplomatically. Yes, Republican politicians in both the Senate and House have been serious about this and some have shown exceptional leadership- but that doesn't make headlines. You gotta watch some cspan clips to find it.


I'm a liberal D and there was a little bit before 45 mentioned reopening by Easter that I thought he was doing a decent job...better than I thought he would do anyway. The hospitals are now filling up, and wait until they fill up in red states...they might have a fit. Or they might keep their American dream of individualism and exceptionalism going. Or maybe they'll be dead or permanently disabled. I'm glad the Dems in the senate supported passing the $2T bill. Reps couldn't hardly support Obama's $787B bill to keep the economy going during the GFC. Perhaps this crisis will lead to more protections for workers and universal health care after all, that would be a good thing. I can't help but think how stupid the states that refused to expand Medicaid are...very, very simple minded and selfish.


I was very (I) before the Trump Train came crashing into our reality. I became strongly partisan because of the guy. But I know our country and the well-being of every American is far more important than partisan bickering. This crisis is more important than any political issue we've been fighting over this whole time. I'm being as (I) as possible despite our president telling people the exact opposite of what he needs to be saying everyday. Trump supporters care about our country just as much as the rest of us. While we disagree on what's best for our country frequently, if they accept how big of a threat this virus really is they would be in agreement with everyone else that stopping it is best for our country. Unfortunately a leader they look up to and trust is misinforming them on how dangerous this is.




I'd also like to remind everyone the last President to properly invest in pandemic prep was........... George W. Bush.

He (and really his admin) was the reason why we had more than 100 million masks in the SNS when the pandemic 2009 H1N1 hit to ship out in support of our healthcare workers. They never got replaced.


You're right. I've been over the partisan bickering too with this response, but it's the stupidity that really confounds me. You have scientists and experts saying one thing, and then look at the posts on this very forum. It's quite disturbing.

At least Obama kept USAID PREDICT going though. That project did good work.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
User avatar
Jouhou
Topic Author
Posts: 2539
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:36 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

I'm a liberal D and there was a little bit before 45 mentioned reopening by Easter that I thought he was doing a decent job...better than I thought he would do anyway. The hospitals are now filling up, and wait until they fill up in red states...they might have a fit. Or they might keep their American dream of individualism and exceptionalism going. Or maybe they'll be dead or permanently disabled. I'm glad the Dems in the senate supported passing the $2T bill. Reps couldn't hardly support Obama's $787B bill to keep the economy going during the GFC. Perhaps this crisis will lead to more protections for workers and universal health care after all, that would be a good thing. I can't help but think how stupid the states that refused to expand Medicaid are...very, very simple minded and selfish.


I was very (I) before the Trump Train came crashing into our reality. I became strongly partisan because of the guy. But I know our country and the well-being of every American is far more important than partisan bickering. This crisis is more important than any political issue we've been fighting over this whole time. I'm being as (I) as possible despite our president telling people the exact opposite of what he needs to be saying everyday. Trump supporters care about our country just as much as the rest of us. While we disagree on what's best for our country frequently, if they accept how big of a threat this virus really is they would be in agreement with everyone else that stopping it is best for our country. Unfortunately a leader they look up to and trust is misinforming them on how dangerous this is.




I'd also like to remind everyone the last President to properly invest in pandemic prep was........... George W. Bush.

He (and really his admin) was the reason why we had more than 100 million masks in the SNS when the pandemic 2009 H1N1 hit to ship out in support of our healthcare workers. They never got replaced.


You're right. I've been over the partisan bickering too with this response, but it's the stupidity that really confounds me. You have scientists and experts saying one thing, and then look at the posts on this very forum. It's quite disturbing.

At least Obama kept USAID PREDICT going though. That project did good work.


Right, there's a lot of things involved in pandemic prep but it's been well known that PPE shortages would be the biggest problem in every scenario. We've had a reminder with every single pandemic scare. And yet we still failed on this basic element. Watching this play out, we aren't the only ones who let their guard down. France used to have a stockpile of 1 billion masks. It appears they didn't have that anymore this time around. Just like us.
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marcelh
Posts: 1102
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:42 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
In some people, the illness is not noticeable until hours before death.


Define "some" please and do you have a source?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13405
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:34 am

par13del wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
People in Italy are very, very religious.. ... i am pretty sure they prayed and do pray a lot. But hey, you have plenty of attitude once your body is stiff.

best regards
Thomas

Think I read once that Italy is mostly Catholic and also one of the highest users of contraception, as with all things religion, one cannot argue faith.
Two sides will appear for the deaths, remove the sinners or elevate the worthy to the afterlife.


Italy is not that religious. I have a large family there and literally nobody goes to church, outside of Christmas, if even.

Yes you have some very religious people, and there is a strong Catholic culture, but the actual practice is another story.

Also, Catholicism in Western Europe is not a hardcore religion, it's very "mild". In the US and other battlegrounds Catholicism is influenced by aggressive Evangelicals, obsessed with chastity, abortion etc., but in Western Europe that's not the case (yet).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1363
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:38 am

It looks like we have ourselves an explanation for the UK's sudden change of strategy:


UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has coronavirus
Mr Johnson has tested positive for coronavirus, Downing Street says. His symptoms are mild and he will continue to lead the government response to the virus while he self-isolates, a spokesman says.


https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52058788


It all makes sense now.
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
sebolino
Posts: 3582
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:40 am

Just read that Boris Johnson is positive.
How ironic ! He will be able to be part of the herd immunity :-)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/27/worl ... -news.html
 
na
Posts: 9782
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:42 am

The hits are coming nearer. I just heard that some friends from near London have Corona. My former in-laws. The father is already over it, his wife, a nurse, is sick, the children in quarantine.
Someone else I know, someone with a chronic illness and therefore under serious threat, is in intensive care here in Germany.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8479
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:01 pm

This is not the correct time to discuss politics, but it appears Dem Governors are pro-active and making more noise, probably testing is more than other states, more +ve cases, gets attention, resources and money.

Sure, the squeaky wheel gets attention, but I hope other states won't fall far behind in getting their share of already limited resources. COVID-19 has no borders or political affiliation.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1363
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:44 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:03 pm

Perhaps worse news than 180 Boris' infection: a cat got infected in Belgium and has symptoms.

https://m.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/kat- ... ~a264b11e/

This changes the playbook as cats who are allowed to go out will interact with other cats and become potential spreaders.
Dogs peeing and pooping in the streets can also pose a risk. They can contaminate the pavememts and passerby's shoes or other dogs as they like to smell eachother's pees and feces.

Perhaps they should ban dog walks? How does that work though, dogs need to do their deeds? What a mess.
 
N757ST
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:13 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
American politicians and policy makers seem more concerned with their little stimulus package than what is going on in hospitals.
They are giving the numbers: so many masks, so many this, so many that.
"Open for business by Easter", "everybody packed in churches by Easter".
Stock markets climbing like they have never done before.

However, no plans to help de-escalate the situation in NYC.
No plans to ground airlines despite deaths among cabin crew and ground staff, infections among ATCo's, and the virus spreading like nothing has ever spread before to every county in the United States.
No plans to protect nursing homes.
No plans to enforce lockdowns.
No plans to close schools and universities, except in hotspots.
No plans to close non-essential businesses.


Do all Americans think that money is going to save them from Covid19 or is it just the idiots at the top?
"The dollar is your vaccine"?



In the meanwhile, Germany has taken patients from Italy and France, despite that they are countries with different languages.
Not many, but they did.
There is more unity between the mosaic that is the European Union; than within the United States.
In Italy and Europe, money is flowing in the background, donations flowing right and left.
Newspapers are talking about the frontlines, not about the money.

Image

https://www.corriere.it/esteri/20_marzo ... 68fe.shtml


You must not be in America.

Nursing homes are locked down.
You can’t enforce the lockdowns effectively, but most people are locking down.
Every school and 99% of universities are closed.
Almost every non essential buisness is closed, that said I think the definition of an essential business is jumping the shark. (My drycleaner... really?

As for the airlines, they are likely the safest place in the country right now. Most flights have 3-10 passengers on them, airports are complete ghost towns.

As for our hospitals, they are filling but they aren’t full. My sister is an ICU doc in New York, she has open beds. Yes, things are starting to deteriorate, but we aren’t Italy.... yet.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10408
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:21 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
There is more unity between the mosaic that is the European Union; than within the United States.

I take it that you are aware of how the United States was formed as a country and the powers that were passed to the Federal Government and those that remained with the states? Not much has changed on that front in a very long time.

Shocked that the detractors have not jumped on FEMA and its speed in taking over the situation, we are still talking about individual governors.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10408
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:29 pm

N757ST wrote:
As for the airlines, they are likely the safest place in the country right now. Most flights have 3-10 passengers on them, airports are complete ghost towns.

Its not the number of pax in the aircraft or the terminal, its whether they have shut down the ventilation systems, social distancing also has issues on windy days, a sneeze can be blown much further than 6 feet.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:51 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
American politicians and policy makers seem more concerned with their little stimulus package than what is going on in hospitals.
They are giving the numbers: so many masks, so many this, so many that.
"Open for business by Easter", "everybody packed in churches by Easter".
Stock markets climbing like they have never done before.

However, no plans to help de-escalate the situation in NYC.
No plans to ground airlines despite deaths among cabin crew and ground staff, infections among ATCo's, and the virus spreading like nothing has ever spread before to every county in the United States.
No plans to protect nursing homes.
No plans to enforce lockdowns.
No plans to close schools and universities, except in hotspots.
No plans to close non-essential businesses.


Do all Americans think that money is going to save them from Covid19 or is it just the idiots at the top?
"The dollar is your vaccine"?


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/2 ... aps-146144

Let see...
1. Schools are closed in 47/50 states (Last updated 3/25). This include many states that are not necessarily "hotspot". I can't think of any university other than Liberty U that is still open.
2. The whole swath of states from NYC to Chicago has closed pretty much all non-essential business. Some state like Texas let the local authority (i.e. county-level) to make the decision.
3. Airlines are basically operating now to provide essential connection - there ARE people that still needs to travel around (including medical professionals). Even during the worse of outbreak, airlines were never grounded in China, either (although the domestic capacity was reduced by something like 90%).
3b. Side note - planes are mostly empty regardless anyway.
4. Deescalating the situation at NYC? Like how? Just kill anyone that's somewhat sick like the Chinese govt had suspected to do (and North Korea definite did?)?
5. US has no law to enforced a lockdown, short of declaring martial law, and even the latter is on a local authority level AFAIK.
6. From my interpretation, the whole Easter thing is just a wish, period. Ultimately, the number will dictate. Places that are not hit as hard (i.e. in some rural states) things can definitely open back up earlier.
 
N757ST
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 6:00 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:56 pm

par13del wrote:
N757ST wrote:
As for the airlines, they are likely the safest place in the country right now. Most flights have 3-10 passengers on them, airports are complete ghost towns.

Its not the number of pax in the aircraft or the terminal, its whether they have shut down the ventilation systems, social distancing also has issues on windy days, a sneeze can be blown much further than 6 feet.


Terminals are cavernous places, and this is spread through droplets. I don’t see where a ventilation system figures in. If so every apartment building in the city is a death trap.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1204
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:04 pm

The Governor from the hot spot from NY

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday that his stay-at-home order for the entirety of New York State was “probably not the best public health strategy.”

In a press conference in Albany, Cuomo said the smartest way forward would be a public health strategy that complemented a “get-back-to-work strategy.”


https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closin ... h-strategy

Maybe Sweden is not wrong after all
“It’s easy to confuse ‘what is’ with ‘what ought to be,’ especially when ‘what is’ has worked out in your favor.” Tyrion Lannister
 
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Aesma
Posts: 13405
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:15 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Perhaps worse news than 180 Boris' infection: a cat got infected in Belgium and has symptoms.

https://m.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/kat- ... ~a264b11e/

This changes the playbook as cats who are allowed to go out will interact with other cats and become potential spreaders.
Dogs peeing and pooping in the streets can also pose a risk. They can contaminate the pavememts and passerby's shoes or other dogs as they like to smell eachother's pees and feces.

Perhaps they should ban dog walks? How does that work though, dogs need to do their deeds? What a mess.


My cat has stopped going out (too many younger cats around that frighten him) so that's a good point for us.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18256
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:32 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
A good explanation of why NYC was hit so hard. Their officials even encouraged people to attend parades and ride the subways claiming NYC had a very low chance of a coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B-ONfh5jQb ... hnawcz34m7

Tucker Carlson lol

Jouhou wrote:
We can't afford to have a response more disorganized than we already have. Please, people in the US, reach out to the conservative leaning people you know. Don't accuse them of being Trump supporters or attack their political views- highlight how seriously congressional republicans and other prominent Republican leaders are taking this. Praise the ones who have shown strong leadership on this issue. Explain how the economy will recover fastest if we take strong action now.

How? It's like reasoning with a pigeon. We've had hundreds of city/state/region/country examples to follow in terms of this epidemic and many others and it's still "fake news". Trump and the republicans will be *delighted* to watch New Yorkers suffer and die because revenge is their one driving force. Laura Ingraham and Fox are already not so transparently laying the ground work that your dear trusted doctor is part of the deep state. When it gets to Mississippi because the governor over rode any local stay at home measures, they'll either come down with selective amnesia, or not care. There is no reasoning with the right--they've been infected by a different epidemic long before COVID19.

AirWorthy99 wrote:
The Governor from the hot spot from NY

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday that his stay-at-home order for the entirety of New York State was “probably not the best public health strategy.”

In a press conference in Albany, Cuomo said the smartest way forward would be a public health strategy that complemented a “get-back-to-work strategy.”


https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closin ... h-strategy

Maybe Sweden is not wrong after all

AirWorthy99 with a misunderstood mis-quote as per usual
I don't take responsibility at all
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3568
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Novel Coronavirus outbreak

Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:38 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
The Governor from the hot spot from NY

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday that his stay-at-home order for the entirety of New York State was “probably not the best public health strategy.”

In a press conference in Albany, Cuomo said the smartest way forward would be a public health strategy that complemented a “get-back-to-work strategy.”


https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closin ... h-strategy

Maybe Sweden is not wrong after all


It's all about finding a balance, nothing more.

You still do NOT want all those commuters on a subway car (Since this is NYC we're talking about) and crowded restaurant/shops. The latter is particularly problematic as you either close down all restaurants, or let them stay open - the grey area (i.e. reducing capacity) is just hard to enforced and create problems like long line.

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